It's been a tough season so far in 2019 but........

[GVGjr]

I know many of us think we have dropped the ball on the season and it's going to be tough road ahead but in my opinion we are entering a very important little stretch that will help shape the club going forward. While I would have loved a couple of more wins I'm far from disappointed.
Careers are in the balance though and decisions will be made on who to invest time in and who will just be treading water until the end of the season


The positives
Aaron Norton - The move forward has been a brilliant one by Bevo. He has played some excellent games and we now have a genuine match winning forward signed for a long period. His marking has been a real highlight.
Caleb Daniel - I'll be honest here but I never expected him to be the force that he has been as a small (well smallest) defender. It's been another brilliant move and he so often provides great decision making and he just distributes the ball so well. I had my doubts that other coaches would have worked him out by now and exploited his lack of height but week after week he is making a difference for us
Bailey Smith - he has vastly exceeded my expectations especially given his limited preseason. He's got the pace that we need, he's physical in a contest and his skill level has looked very good. I thought he'd need to be rested and managed throughout the season but he's handled the transition from the TAC better than most of us expected. It's hard not to get excited about his future
Josh Dunkley - A return to the midfield has returned a midfield beast to us. Dunkley has some faults but he's been a strong performer and someone I hope continues to improve

Special mentions to:
Lloyd, Trengove and Crozier as recent additions via trades, Bontempelli who is one of the games genuine stars, and Hunter who despite some critics has had a good season so far

Time to Lift
Macrae - He's currently not the force he's previously been and perhaps it's a slight change in his role but he isn't at his best
Liberatore - Started off well but has faded a bit in recent weeks, we just need a bit more from him
Richards - He was sensational for us last year but he just has come close to that form. Perhaps he's another one who has had difficulties adjusting to a new role
McLean - Another player who is well down on the form he displayed last year
Wood - The captain has been almost immune from criticism and expectation for his career just now needs to adapt and lift for us.

Question marks
We know Boyd and Picken are gone but there are a number of players with questions marks against there names for 2020
Morris - The warrior who we need to finish the season off strongly. Could he get another 1 year deal?
Dickson - The sharpshooter who is struggling a bit with injuries and form
Roberts, Webb, Dale, Lynch R.Smith and Jong who have all been given chances to establish themselves but haven't quite yet. The next few weeks loom large fore them
Porter has yet to be tried but needs to get a wriggle on
Of course there are some others but attitude and effort will play a big part of who stays and goes at the end of the season

The 'balance' of the list
It's been hotly debated here and most were very comfortable with the balance of our list at the end of the trade period last year but as we enter the middle of the 2019 season I think some might have altered their view on if we have enough key position players and ruck man. Even Bevo concedes this.
On top of that we have an over supply of mid sized defenders
It's critical going forward that we strike a better balance and maybe Power and Austin start this correction with the mid season draft on Monday

Summary
I think there are a few too many supporters reluctantly considering putting their cue in the rack for the balance of the season but in my opinion there are a number of things that will play out in the next few months. It should at least be interesting.
Many on the playing list need to impress, many need to show improvement simply from a pride perspective and then there is a good chance we can turn a game on it's head like we nearly did yesterday.

Stick with us folks, there is still plenty of machinations to play out in 2019

[AshMac]

Really good thread.

I’d put English in the top category too if players to be excited about. He isn’t burning the world down, but he is exceeding (at least my) expectations. A decent kick in front of goal and he keeps getting stronger in marking contests and he is a player we can genuinely anchor a midfielder around.

In the lift category - is out both Wally and JJ. Wallis is great in patches but I just don’t think we’ve found the perfect spot for him. Good from inside 40 and rarely beaten in 1 on 1’s he is up an down for mine and needs to find some consistency across a season.

JJ too. Thought he was really good yesterday and were starting to see that excitement again when he gets the ball off the back flank but he seems to be inconsistent with his kicking and decision making.

Two senior players who at their very best are exceptional.

[Ozza]

GVGjr, I note in the OP, that Macrae, Libba and McLean are listed as time to lift. All 3 are spending significant time in different roles this season. For Libba and Macrae - inexplicably they are spending significant time forward, which oppositions must be enjoying, given how both are regarded as mids who can win clearances and accumulate possessions.

McLean seems to have been pushed out of the midfield on account of Dunkley. But what is baffling to me, is that we go from having McLean as a 25+ possession mid last season, who could get clearances, to players like Lipinski, Williams and Gowers getting opportunities at the centre bounce. I'm all for Bailey Smith getting his crack in there also, but it is very strange that McLean has fallen so far down the pecking order.

[GVGjr]

GVGjr, I note in the OP, that Macrae, Libba and McLean are listed as time to lift. All 3 are spending significant time in different roles this season. For Libba and Macrae - inexplicably they are spending significant time forward, which oppositions must be enjoying, given how both are regarded as mids who can win clearances and accumulate possessions.

McLean seems to have been pushed out of the midfield on account of Dunkley. But what is baffling to me, is that we go from having McLean as a 25+ possession mid last season, who could get clearances, to players like Lipinski, Williams and Gowers getting opportunities at the centre bounce. I'm all for Bailey Smith getting his crack in there also, but it is very strange that McLean has fallen so far down the pecking order.

Fully agree, I suggest there is a bit of a log jam for time in the middle and maybe there has been and expectation that many of them haven't enjoyed the same amount of time in the middle. There has to be a correlation between Dunkley's return to form by getting more time in the middle and say Liberatore just dropping back a bit while he has spent more time forward.

Our midfield depth might not be working that well for everyone

[bornadog]

One of the areas we need to improve on is our last quarters. For some reason we seem to fade out. Is it our fitness?

Against

* Suns started the game poorly, came flying home, but just couldn't get the win on the board.
* Collingwood - 5 points up at 3/4 time
* Freo - 6 points down at 3/4 time
* Geelong - got to within 5 points and then allowed 3 quick goals in the dying moments of 3rd qrt. Still in it in the last but gave up in the last 10 minutes.
* North - hit the front in first 10 minutes of last, then lost

Something is not right.

IF we can finish off games, there will be plenty of wins ahead.

[GVGjr]

One of the areas we need to improve on is our last quarters. For some reason we seem to fade out. Is it our fitness?

Against

* Suns started the game poorly, came flying home, but just couldn't get the win on the board.
* Collingwood - 5 points up at 3/4 time
* Freo - 6 points down at 3/4 time
* Geelong - got to within 5 points and then allowed 3 quick goals in the dying moments of 3rd qrt. Still in it in the last but gave up in the last 10 minutes.
* North - hit the front in first 10 minutes of last, then lost

Something is not right.

IF we can finish off games, there will be plenty of wins ahead.

We had a full preseason so I'm not sure fitness is the issue but there were certainly some spent players yesterday but I noticed it more after North rallied and reestablished a decent lead against us. It's hard to say with a lot of confidence but we probably aren't fighting out games once they become out of reach.

[kruder]

GVGjr, I note in the OP, that Macrae, Libba and McLean are listed as time to lift. All 3 are spending significant time in different roles this season. For Libba and Macrae - inexplicably they are spending significant time forward, which oppositions must be enjoying, given how both are regarded as mids who can win clearances and accumulate possessions.

McLean seems to have been pushed out of the midfield on account of Dunkley. But what is baffling to me, is that we go from having McLean as a 25+ possession mid last season, who could get clearances, to players like Lipinski, Williams and Gowers getting opportunities at the centre bounce. I'm all for Bailey Smith getting his crack in there also, but it is very strange that McLean has fallen so far down the pecking order.

It was bizarre when North were taking the game away from us in the second quarter that we continued to put both Lippa and Smith in the same centre bounce. The bonus about 666 is that you can stop/gain momentum by getting a clearance and scoring and at the same time another clearance to the opposition can turn it into a landslide. it was obvious that it was a pregame setup. In a game when our season is on the line at round 10 after 2 pathetic seasons give me Libba/Macrae/Bont anytime. Bevo is absolutely playing with fire atm, he seems to finally have gotten the wheel turning again but if we fall away in the second half of the year I'm not sure sure he is ever going to get it back without significant change.

[jeemak]

It was bizarre when North were taking the game away from us in the second quarter that we continued to put both Lippa and Smith in the same centre bounce. The bonus about 666 is that you can stop/gain momentum by getting a clearance and scoring and at the same time another clearance to the opposition can turn it into a landslide. it was obvious that it was a pregame setup. In a game when our season is on the line at round 10 after 2 pathetic seasons give me Libba/Macrae/Bont anytime. Bevo is absolutely playing with fire atm, he seems to finally have gotten the wheel turning again but if we fall away in the second half of the year I'm not sure sure he is ever going to get it back without significant change.

It's interesting that towards the final month or two of last year the senior players told the match committee to stop taking the piss and play to our strengths, perhaps this needs to happen again surrounding midfield personnel. If it is happening already and the players are being ignored, that could create a fairly toxic outcome.

The hubris that must go into this type of planning is what I struggle with, and indicates to me we've probably created an echo chamber within the coaching group that doesn't critically assess some of the ideas that are tabled to extent they should be. It's abundantly clear to me we need freshening up.

Good OP.

[Twodogs]

It's interesting that towards the final month or two of last year the senior players told the match committee to stop taking the piss and play to our strengths, perhaps this needs to happen again surrounding midfield personnel. If it is happening already and the players are being ignored, that could create a fairly toxic outcome.

The hubris that must go into this type of planning is what I struggle with, and indicates to me we've probably created an echo chamber within the coaching group that doesn't critically assess some of the ideas that are tabled to extent they should be. It's abundantly clear to me we need freshening up.

Good OP.


Yep, we need someone who will challenge the conventional wisdom. There are ideas that sound great but there is a very good reason that clubs don't go with them and that's because there is a hidden problem that nobody has noticed (usually due to a lack of experience). In isolation new ideas are great but when you risk the perception (or the reality) that you are drinking your own bathwater then it's probably a good idea to have someone a bit more experienced to bounce those ideas off.

[kruder]

It's interesting that towards the final month or two of last year the senior players told the match committee to stop taking the piss and play to our strengths, perhaps this needs to happen again surrounding midfield personnel. If it is happening already and the players are being ignored, that could create a fairly toxic outcome.

The hubris that must go into this type of planning is what I struggle with, and indicates to me we've probably created an echo chamber within the coaching group that doesn't critically assess some of the ideas that are tabled to extent they should be. It's abundantly clear to me we need freshening up.

Good OP.



The body language of Macrae, libba and Mclean suggests this..

[MrMahatma]

We’ve lost to GC, Carlton and North.

I mean, I too look at the positives and want to have a glass half full view, but seriously, it’s a joke. Pretty sure that those 3 were the bottom 3 at the beginning of this round.

The problem is, you kind of have to look for someone or something to blame when playing like this. This isn’t inconsistency. Against good teams we always compete. This is something else. Cause against poor teams, we seem to regularly lose. So you can’t blame youth or fitness or anything. It’s a leadership issue. On, off the field? Both? I wish it was a joke but you can bank on us being in with a shot next week and then getting rolled the week after the bye.

[AshMac]

We’ve lost to GC, Carlton and North.

I mean, I too look at the positives and want to have a glass half full view, but seriously, it’s a joke. Pretty sure that those 3 were the bottom 3 at the beginning of this round.

The problem is, you kind of have to look for someone or something to blame when playing like this. This isn’t inconsistency. Against good teams we always compete. This is something else. Cause against poor teams, we seem to regularly lose. So you can’t blame youth or fitness or anything. It’s a leadership issue. On, off the field? Both? I wish it was a joke but you can bank on us being in with a shot next week and then getting rolled the week after the bye.

Hard year to call. For all our wins bar Richmond the game was on the line at a crucial part and we were the team that lifted more - swans got within 4 points in 4th, 9 goal last qtr against hawks, snatched the lead w a momentum swinging goal on half time siren against lions.

Having said this for all games we’ve lost bar Carlton, we were in prime position to run away with it but the other team lifted - within a kick or infront at a point in the last quarter.

Forever, I thought the answer would be an experienced coaching panel around Bevo, but my assumption is he is too stubborn to listen. The radical position switch with players works with some - Boyd snr, Caleb Daniel, Naughton (so far) - but it’s rarer they work than they don’t. Why we don’t pivot to proven positions and structures when the game is on the line I don’t know. Having said that - it seems to work half the time so far....

Hard year to call.

[mjp]

I know that no-one agrees with me but I don't think it has been a tough season at all.

It has just been a season where we have dropped 3x easy + winnable games to bottom teams because the strength of our team - our mids - simply doesn't defend.

Add the games vs Carlton, North and GC to the 'win' list and we would all be happy. Losing a tough one to the pies is something we could all accept (effort was good, could have won) equally losing to a pretty good Freo team in Perth is something we could all live with.

We don't take care of business...I thought the writing was on the wall for the North game given the mode of communication I heard during the week last week - it was all about sunshine and rainbows and selection seemed based on things other than hard work/commitment...basically to me we said at selection last week that talent was valued more highly than work rate and because we were bringing in these talented players everything would be ok.

I like the position we are in as a club with our list with the exception of our rucks...and in that case it is a matter of just waiting a while for English to develop. But until we start valuing work-rate and intent over 'talent' we are not going anywhere...key planks of our premiership were Matt Boyd, Dale Morris, JJ, Biggs, Picken (and I am missing someone) who worked their way up from the rookie list...some under enormous duress. I guess this was balanced by the blue bloods of Stringer and Boyd (high draft picks) but that team was truly born in 'BLOOD AND BOOTS'.

We mock the Giants and the fact that they are not a club, but when they have the likes of De Boer, Mumford and Reid running around they have a real 'grunt' about them....De Boer is shutting down anyone and everyone and seemingly would do anything to be part of the side...where is OUR De Boer who sets standards with work-rate and effort? Our playing group is filled by players who sulk when they are moved out of the midfield - yep, I'm looking at you Jack Macrae (but not only you) - and it simply isn't good enough. Our guys are great when they are up against someone who they seemingly consider 'worthy' of the challenge...but they just aren't honest players who come to 'work' every game. Sure, they will run around and get their 35+ and are good players...but if they don't have it on their own terms, where is the fight?

Is this coaching? Sure, whatever. But the drive to win and succeed no matter what comes from within. The players need to think about what they want their legacy to be (which sounds dumb I know) but if you want to ask me - a really long term member of the club - how I remember this 'group' I will say that Dalrymple assembled an incredibly gifted bunch of players, but unfortunately once they tasted success they were never able to consistently commit to the cause of winning - and instead focussed on stats and their own personal performances.

Most people know I am a pretty dedicated basketball fan and fortunate follower of the Warriors. To see the way Curry has played over the past two weeks (since Durrant went out) has been remarkable - he is basically saying to everyone "I could have been doing this all along, but because we had this other dude I modified MY game (sacrificed) so that we had the best chance of winning...now he is injured, I have to take more responsibility in terms of outcomes...."

Our players seem to take the opposite approach. We need more grunt. We need more guys for whom winning games actually means more than what it says on the stats sheet next to their name when the siren goes.

[Ghost Dog]

I know that no-one agrees with me but I don't think it has been a tough season at all.

It has just been a season where we have dropped 3x easy + winnable games to bottom teams because the strength of our team - our mids - simply doesn't defend.

Add the games vs Carlton, North and GC to the 'win' list and we would all be happy. Losing a tough one to the pies is something we could all accept (effort was good, could have won) equally losing to a pretty good Freo team in Perth is something we could all live with.


Our players seem to take the opposite approach. We need more grunt. We need more guys for whom winning games actually means more than what it says on the stats sheet next to their name when the siren goes.

Really thoughtful, cut-to-the-core post. Are the players holding up Bevo too much and not taking enough responsibility themselves?
As low as they are, was interesting to see Carlton kick the coaches out and have their own review.
It's turnovers, goal kicking and lack of defensive pressure from our mids. Being sloppy is costing us an otherwise fantastic season.
Lyon used to have that rule at the saints, that a tackle inside 50 was as good as a goal. On the coaching side, there is definitely some knack to reframing what success means. If we throw away season after season, it will def take the shine off 2016.


"Matt Boyd, Dale Morris, JJ, Biggs, Picken (and I am missing someone)" < -- Tory Dickson. The bricklayer who could.

[Mofra]

Excellent points mjp.

If there one tiny worrying tidbit I've heard this year it's that Jack Macrae counts his possessions on the ground. He's someone I've admired as often he's happy to hold the ball for an extra half second to take the hit from the opposition player prior to releasing the ball which puts his teammate in a slightly better position, but it's not always happening this year. Notably, he was part of a midfield group that against Carlton and Gold Coast refused to play at least one starting mid on the defensive side of the centre contest, unforgivable given we basically conceded the ruck contest during those games.

McLean & Wally are sacrificing their natural game for the team. I don't actually think McLean is too down on form, just being played in a very difficult position to play in our system which makes Lloyd's form all the more remarkable.

I also don't buy the 'talent' argument given the obvious list imbalance in our side. Consider the guys who started as our forward six last week (I watched closely, and Bont started in the centre):

Libba, Lloyd, Suckling, Wallis, Naughton, Richards

Naughton was a FB and even spent all pre-season there before being thrown forward. Richards was drafted as a defender, Suckling a defender as well.
Libba & Wallis? Inside mids.
Then (I noted this and someone in front of me remarked he was thinking the same thing) Suckling rotates after 4.5 minutes against North even though he was in the forward pocket the whole time and had barely run. Are our pre-planned rotations helping or hindering us?

The only legitimate developed forward playing on Saturday was Lloyd who spent most of last year in another team's VFL side. Now Wallis has been surprisingly effective forward in patches last year and Naughton is a freak, but that points to huge list management issues.

I really don't like having only one marking forward either - Naughton is brilliant but he's still a budding 19 year old KPF playing with no tall support right now. Gowers at least blocks and split the defenders, who was going to do it last week? Drop Gowers, fine, but just picking blokes to play without any thought to having a functioning forwardline is either arrogance or ridiculous optimism.

I'm really concerned that as at JLT 2 we threw all of our plans out the window. Trengove spends all pre-season playing ruck, Naughton defence, Williams as a mid, Wallis who excelled forward last year and had the worst centre clearance differential in 2018 in the competition (-10) plays mid, Dunkley who excelled last year as a mid plays mostly forward.... Bevo is cobblign together a team due to said list imbalances and for all the moves that work, it seems to have been done by desperation rather than clever grand planning.

[bornadog]

People can talk about versatility, playing out of position, talent etc, but what I gather out of MJP's post, is EFFORT, or lack of by some players.

Players have to stop sooking and play where they are asked to play.

The only real effort on the weekend was the first quarter, which in my opinion we won, even though the scores were tied, and the first 10 minutes of the last.

We lost on Saturday, because our mids didn't give us enough inside 50's to kick a winning score.

[mjp]

We lost on Saturday, because our mids didn't give us enough inside 50's to kick a winning score.

See - I reckon we lost because we allowed too much possession/too many inside 50's to North. I understand what you are saying and people will say that it is semantics - "What does it matter how many they get as long as we get more...", but to me that is a BS attitude.

It only takes one person to score a goal. It only takes one to create an inside 50m. Naughton takes a ridiculous mark, JJ runs and has 4x bounces...done. A high i50 count can be the result of a number of positive one-player/two-player efforts.

It takes an entire TEAM to stop a goal. It takes an entire TEAM to stop an opposition i50. In transition, if just ONE PLAYER makes a mistake, is a bit slow, is a bit 'soft' (broken tackle)...GOAL. Everyone needs to consistently and continuously play their part in order to stop the opposition.

[bornadog]

See - I reckon we lost because we allowed too much possession/too many inside 50's to North. I understand what you are saying and people will say that it is semantics - "What does it matter how many they get as long as we get more...", but to me that is a BS attitude.

It only takes one person to score a goal. It only takes one to create an inside 50m. Naughton takes a ridiculous mark, JJ runs and has 4x bounces...done. A high i50 count can be the result of a number of positive one-player/two-player efforts.

It takes an entire TEAM to stop a goal. It takes an entire TEAM to stop an opposition i50. In transition, if just ONE PLAYER makes a mistake, is a bit slow, is a bit 'soft' (broken tackle)...GOAL. Everyone needs to consistently and continuously play their part in order to stop the opposition.

I can't argue against that.

[Mantis]

It takes an entire TEAM to stop a goal. It takes an entire TEAM to stop an opposition i50. In transition, if just ONE PLAYER makes a mistake, is a bit slow, is a bit 'soft' (broken tackle)...GOAL. Everyone needs to consistently and continuously play their part in order to stop the opposition.

Quoted because it's the truth.

Our 2-way running is dreadful.. to a man our players go half rat power when transitioning from offence into defence. And when you have a backline that isn't all that good at one-on-one defending you're in big trouble.

[hujsh]

It certainly hasn't been our ability to score that's let us down these last two weeks. If our defense is up to scratch we win with 90 points or so.

[Danjul]

I don’t want to see more grunt or toughness.
I want to see more skill. I want to see the player with the ball take responsibility for doing something with it.

Too much of the possessions count does nothing to help win the game.

who gets the ball, sprints 10 metres and kicks a low 45 metre pass. Nobody except Bont (and Smith)

At present everyone simply looks for a handpass. Most weeks we have 20, 30 or 40 more than the opposition and lose because of resulting turnovers.

Combine quality kicking with a sensible goal to goal line and we would enjoy significantly more wins.

[Danjul]

It certainly hasn't been our ability to score that's let us down these last two weeks. If our defense is up to scratch we win with 90 points or so.

Similar number of scoring shots but the opposition usually get a goal.

[Ghost Dog]

It certainly hasn't been our ability to score that's let us down these last two weeks. If our defense is up to scratch we win with 90 points or so.

Not the last two weeks, no.

[whythelongface]

It certainly hasn't been our ability to score that's let us down these last two weeks. If our defense is up to scratch we win with 90 points or so.

Is it our defence that is the issue or our lack of accountability further up the ground? Sure our defence would be part of the problem but turnovers, skill errors and hardness at the ball are all significant contributors.

[1eyedog]

The issue is at a coaching level if you ask me. You can't play players out of position long term or even quarter to quarter. Macrae / Libba forward has never worked. You can't bring in new players who have been playing completely different roles in the VFL and expect them to perform other roles in the senior team they're not accustomed to. There are just too many weird decisions being made at the MC / Snr coach level for loses to be remotely palatable. We need an assistant coach clean out and Bevo needs a bad cop. I'd go hard at luring Buddha over from the Pies. Their stoppage work is exemplary and I'd also assign a specific ball movement portfolio to an assistant coach as well. The way we transition is just terrible 80% of the time.

[hujsh]

Is it our defence that is the issue or our lack of accountability further up the ground? Sure our defence would be part of the problem but turnovers, skill errors and hardness at the ball are all significant contributors.

Team defense. Not putting the Men's Club on blast. I was responding pretty close to the point MJP made about it being a team effort to stop a goal.

[Eastdog]

Is it our defence that is the issue or our lack of accountability further up the ground? Sure our defence would be part of the problem but turnovers, skill errors and hardness at the ball are all significant contributors.

The defence certainly would be under the spotlight the last 2 weeks considering 21 and 18 goals over 100 points. We have slightly improved the goalkicking with 13.11 and 13.12 but still not good enough to get the win the last 2 weeks anyway. Those other things mentioned are all factors to our current situation.

[bornadog]

The defence certainly would be under the spotlight the last 2 weeks considering 21 and 18 goals over 100 points. We have slightly improved the goalkicking with 13.11 and 13.12 but still not good enough to get the win the last 2 weeks anyway. Those other things mentioned are all factors to our current situation.

Defense is under pressure because we are not defending the ball well up the ground. The ball comes out of our forward line far too easily.

[Eastdog]

Defense is under pressure because we are not defending the ball well up the ground. The ball comes out of our forward line far too easily.

Yeah teams seem to get easy goals from us and we have to work for ours every time.

[whythelongface]

Team defense. Not putting the Men's Club on blast. I was responding pretty close to the point MJP made about it being a team effort to stop a goal.

Thought that was what you meant just wanted to clarify as I totally agree. We let the opposition run rampant up the ground and through the middle.

[mjp]

I don’t want to see more grunt or toughness.

At present everyone simply looks for a handpass. Most weeks we have 20, 30 or 40 more than the opposition and lose because of resulting turnovers.

Combine quality kicking with a sensible goal to goal line and we would enjoy significantly more wins.

That wasn't the case vs North. We had more kicks and LESS handballs.

I am not talking about toughness being the difference. It is about defensive concentration and not allowing turnovers to become goals...on the weekend we had LESS turnovers than North and were actually MORE efficient inside fwd 50 than they were...so what gives?

Fair enough, disposal efficiency...we were down by a couple of percent - but it really was line ball...

I am all for your comments about too much of our possession not actually helping us win - that was the main thrust of what I was posting last week - but I thought our kick/handball ratio was much improved vs North, but our efforts in transition, efforts to provide an effective outlet/shut down the outlet were poor...and the efforts of our forwards to quickly empty out and get goal side were not good enough.

I am curious what you mean by a sensible goal-to-goal line...who should play???

[Hotdog60]

I think the leadership is weak. There is no lead by example and has anyone ever seen Wood pull the group together after a bad quarter and rev the boys up.

Maybe I'm too old school and if a captain got up the players for a poor performance they would just tell him to hoof off.

[Danjul]

That wasn't the case vs North. We had more kicks and LESS handballs.

I am not talking about toughness being the difference. It is about defensive concentration and not allowing turnovers to become goals...on the weekend we had LESS turnovers than North and were actually MORE efficient inside fwd 50 than they were...so what gives?

Fair enough, disposal efficiency...we were down by a couple of percent - but it really was line ball...

I am all for your comments about too much of our possession not actually helping us win - that was the main thrust of what I was posting last week - but I thought our kick/handball ratio was much improved vs North, but our efforts in transition, efforts to provide an effective outlet/shut down the outlet were poor...and the efforts of our forwards to quickly empty out and get goal side were not good enough.

I am curious what you mean by a sensible goal-to-goal line...who should play???

we had the same number of scoring shots but got 12 behinds to 7 (similar against Geelong). One thing I noticed that seemed to impact on goal kicking accuracy was the transition into the forward line. Slow movement around the wing with handball or short kicks allowing defenders to flood back. A successful kick into the 50 metre arc often results in a shot at goal from difficult angle or on the kicker’s distance limit (short forwards leading out ).

I would like to see faster and straighter kicks into the F50, from closer to the centre square. The Bont does this well.

I would like to see a genuine tall at CHF who can kick long goals. I think Schache is our best option now. Then Naughton at FF might not get two tall defenders so often. Also, the smaller forwards can focus on gathering spills and using speed to run into better positions.

on the backline we should have Suckling kicking in with a choice of spaced targets, the ruckman and 2 genuine talls who are good overhead. Lewis Young was like that. Trengove can take a mark. . I suspect we waste Daniel at present. He could set up some smart play further up the ground.

At present our exits are slow , often leading to a contest too close to opponents goal. This invariably involves the opposition ruckmen.

[Twodogs]

Quote Originally Posted by mjp

It takes an entire TEAM to stop a goal. It takes an entire TEAM to stop an opposition i50. In transition, if just ONE PLAYER makes a mistake, is a bit slow, is a bit 'soft' (broken tackle)...GOAL. Everyone needs to consistently and continuously play their part in order to stop the opposition.



Quoted because it's the truth.]Our 2-way running is dreadful.. to a man our players go half rat power when transitioning from offence into defence. And when you have a backline that isn't all that good at one-on-one defending you're in big trouble.


So true. Most teams play to their strengths but we seem to play to our weaknesses.

[mjp]

we had the same number of scoring shots but got 12 behinds to 7 (similar against Geelong). One thing I noticed that seemed to impact on goal kicking accuracy was the transition into the forward line.

I neither agree nor disagree with any of this...I just don't think our ball-movement was the problem on the weekend. We had enough of the ball - we just allowed too much of it to North. Fair enough vs Geelong we over-used but we didn't really do that against North.

I guess the question I would ask is WHY you think we were slowed down on the wing. Is it our structure (it sounds like you think yes) or the oppositions willingness to push back hard and defend in numbers (I think it is this). When I watch - and I am in Perth remember so beholden to the broadcast angle - going quicker would result in MORE turnovers rather than less because we are so often outnumbered behind the ball...

I understand what you are saying about structuring around Schache and Naughton...I just can't see Schache at CHF making a lick of difference. We will kick it to him - he wont mark it - the opposition will take it away. I guess I am just nervous about the idea of Josh playing high as any sort of marking target because he WILL be under high entry kicks (that's the life of a CHF) and I haven't seen him mark those balls going back to his time in the u18's.

[bornadog]

or the oppositions willingness to push back hard and defend in numbers (I think it is this). .

I thought North were very good at defending and stopping our run. Their pressure on the ball carriers was excellent, forcing us to kick short and try to hold on to the ball. We stuffed up a few times by trying to kick across the ground to try and go wide of their press, only to turn it over due to errant kicking.

[Sedat]

We are in the midst of record low scores in the comp, so conceding 21 and 18 goals in the last 2 weeks is akin to 25+ goals. That is a massive failure of team defence, as others have already alluded to on this thread. We have so many elite ball winners who cannot/will not take responsibility for harder working opposition mids. We are not dissimilar to Melbourne in that respect, who have so many inside grunt mids who get absolutely torched on the outside and have no work ethic to run defensively - it's not a flattering comparison.

[Bulldog4life]

I neither agree nor disagree with any of this...I just don't think our ball-movement was the problem on the weekend. We had enough of the ball - we just allowed too much of it to North. Fair enough vs Geelong we over-used but we didn't really do that against North.

I guess the question I would ask is WHY you think we were slowed down on the wing. Is it our structure (it sounds like you think yes) or the oppositions willingness to push back hard and defend in numbers (I think it is this). When I watch - and I am in Perth remember so beholden to the broadcast angle - going quicker would result in MORE turnovers rather than less because we are so often outnumbered behind the ball...

I understand what you are saying about structuring around Schache and Naughton...I just can't see Schache at CHF making a lick of difference. We will kick it to him - he wont mark it - the opposition will take it away. I guess I am just nervous about the idea of Josh playing high as any sort of marking target because he WILL be under high entry kicks (that's the life of a CHF) and I haven't seen him mark those balls going back to his time in the u18's.

Agree about Schache not playing centre half forward. That position is better for Naughton and gives him more room to move with Schache at full forward.

[Bullies]

Turnovers are killing us. they kicked 8 goals from turnovers on the weekend. Daniel has had a great year but boy has he had some turnovers trying to be to cute. I have never seen so many bullet passes tried over the past few weeks and very few come off. Get back to the basics.

[bornadog]

Turnovers are killing us. they kicked 8 goals from turnovers on the weekend. Daniel has had a great year but boy has he had some turnovers trying to be to cute. I have never seen so many bullet passes tried over the past few weeks and very few come off. Get back to the basics.

I hate the kicking across the ground, as they don't seem to come off.

[Mofra]

Turnovers are killing us. they kicked 8 goals from turnovers on the weekend. Daniel has had a great year but boy has he had some turnovers trying to be to cute. I have never seen so many bullet passes tried over the past few weeks and very few come off. Get back to the basics.
Is it a function of not having a legitimate marking target forward of the ball?

With only one tall forward it's not hard for opposition teams to block the 'down the line' kick noting teams tend to avoid the corridor. We seem set to try and open the fat side of the ground up at every opportunity to find a leading target.
A legitimate second tall option would allow they or Naughton to meet the ball carrier on a slow transition.

[Bulldog4life]

Is it a function of not having a legitimate marking target forward of the ball?

With only one tall forward it's not hard for opposition teams to block the 'down the line' kick noting teams tend to avoid the corridor. We seem set to try and open the fat side of the ground up at every opportunity to find a leading target.
A legitimate second tall option would allow they or Naughton to meet the ball carrier on a slow transition.

Norf were really good in not allowing us to do this as much as we would have liked.

[boydogs]

Is it a function of not having a legitimate marking target forward of the ball?

North made an artform out of blocking our single tall so theirs had a clean run at it
Much harder to do when there are two of them

[Ozza]

We're the 6th highest scoring team in the competition - I'm not worried about our ability to score as such.

Our ability to defend is a real worry, but its our blatant turnovers via decision or skill errors that is killing us. When you kick the ball to the opposition and defenders are out of position, you have no chance. How often to do concede a goal when we've had a short pass cut off, a switch that doesn't come off, or a scenario where the right decision was to go conservatively down the line but we run ourselves into trouble over doing handball.

The way I look at this season, we've played pretty well for a significant portion of games, but have had a few disaster moments in games that have killed us. Add to that, the arriogant approach we've take to selection and player-positioning against the bottom sides - we really should be sitting at 6-4 (I know you can make a case for beating all 3 bottom sides, but we also pinched one v Hawthorn so I'm saying we should have 2 more wins on the balance of things).

[mjp]

Turnovers are killing us. they kicked 8 goals from turnovers on the weekend. Daniel has had a great year but boy has he had some turnovers trying to be to cute. I have never seen so many bullet passes tried over the past few weeks and very few come off. Get back to the basics.

Yeah, but to be fair it's turnovers that are killing everyone. Pretty much ALL scoring this year is coming on the back of turnover - scoring either comes from turnover, stoppage or kick-in - and both scores and scoring percentages from stoppages and kick-ins are down.

I get what you are saying I guess - but I just cant shake the feeling that as supporters we want it both ways...all the comments on here about going 'faster'...the fastest sides in the competition (most play-ons) are Melbourne and Carlton - and they are on the bottom. We rank 7th or 8th quickest...Geelong are the slowest and they are on top. Further to that, we aren't happy when the side plays 'safe' footy (like the first half vs Collingwood, generally speaking vs North) but then get upset when the players take a chance to try and open it up and a turnover is the result. I just don't think we are very fair with this - it is bloody hard to strike the right balance of being composed/getting a mark in D50/D-half then trying to hit the 45 in order to accelerate with the opposition sweating on the kick (they practice as well you know).

Admittedly, I was upset a couple of weeks ago because I thought we had the kick/handball balance skewed...again, that is hard. You work for one another and get to the contest in numbers, the reaction is going to be to handball the ball to your team-mate because first option would be preached at training every day.

Again, we have a talented group and even going back to my last post where I talk about Schache not being the CHF focal point, that is probably a dumb comment as it really does feel over the past few weeks we are all getting into 'deck-chairs on the Titanic' mode by suggesting we move player x here and player y there...I mean, a week ago the calls for Dale to be promoted were vigorous and pretty unanimous...a week later he cant play and his career is over...the truth (as always) is in the middle. Yes, he needs to play better but he also needs to be given a chance to do so. The discussion over Richards 'role', Toby's 'role' etc...does it really matter as ultimately what the group needs to do is commit to being in front/1st to the ball in the contest (which we usually are), clean with our hands (50-50 we are) and defend like crazy (20-80 we do).

There was a great stat on that 'TRENDS' podcast a couple of weeks ago about how the team that records the highest number for DEFENSIVE running wins basically every single game...and that team usually records the LOWER number for offensive running...

I have never really liked the whole 'men of mayhem' type commentary, and whilst the 'wall of Biggs' was amazing in the moment and even more remarkable in replay, watching our team around that time it really was incredible how hard we challenged the opposition defensively...defeating the GWS running machine was achieved with running, workrate and effort...I feel we have watched what Richmond, West Coast and Collingwood have done over the past couple of years and defend with structure/positioning (with a bit of help from Howe, McGovern, Shepherd, Grimes and Rance!) and tried to become 'that' sort of team...for whatever reason, it hasn't worked/resonated with our group and we leak goals...so the EFFORT needs to take the place of the structure, the forwards need to be quicker to empty out, we need to apply more pressure through the mids, the defenders need to more aggressively take away leading lanes....

It's going to be ok.

[bornadog]

Yeah, but to be fair it's turnovers that are killing everyone. Pretty much ALL scoring this year is coming on the back of turnover - scoring either comes from turnover, stoppage or kick-in - and both scores and scoring percentages from stoppages and kick-ins are down.

Thanks MJP. The stats on turnovers is interesting:

For the season to date here are the total turnover rankings:



Rk
Team
TO


1
Power
802


2
Dockers
774


3
Demons
768


4
Bombers
763


5
Crows
758


6
Swans
749


7
Tigers
729


8
Suns
723


9
Blues
714


10
Eagles
712


11
Bulldogs
708


12
Hawks
701


13
Kangaroos
696


14
Saints
695


15
Lions
686


16
Magpies
679


17
Giants
642


18
Cats
620


Surprise surprise the least turnover teams are on the top of the ladder. We are ranked 8th lowest and really should be in the top 8, and need to work out why our last quarter fade outs (since the Hawks game) are happening.

[Mofra]

Surprise surprise the least turnover teams are on the top of the ladder. We are ranked 8th lowest and really should be in the top 8, and need to work out why our last quarter fade outs (since the Hawks game) are happening.
If I was to guess, I'd say our F50 efficiency is quite low in comparison to other teams. We've won the inside 50 count but lost games this year (as we did last year).

It's a major reason why I agree with calls to find class forward of the ball at this year's trade period.

[Ghost Dog]

Thanks MJP. The stats on turnovers is interesting:

For the season to date here are the total turnover rankings:



Rk
Team
TO


1
Power
802


2
Dockers
774


3
Demons
768


4
Bombers
763


5
Crows
758


6
Swans
749


7
Tigers
729


8
Suns
723


9
Blues
714


10
Eagles
712


11
Bulldogs
708


12
Hawks
701


13
Kangaroos
696


14
Saints
695


15
Lions
686


16
Magpies
679


17
Giants
642


18
Cats
620


Surprise surprise the least turnover teams are on the top of the ladder. We are ranked 8th lowest and really should be in the top 8, and need to work out why our last quarter fade outs (since the Hawks game) are happening.

Turnovers are one thing. WHEN you turn over the ball and where is another. If you drop your bundle at certain key points of a game close to goal it can kill you. Caleb Daniel.....argh

[mjp]

Turnovers are one thing. WHEN you turn over the ball and where is another. If you drop your bundle at certain key points of a game it can kill you. If you are 40 points ahead you can afford to turn it over ten times.

Maybe 6!

[Ghost Dog]

Maybe 6!

Well depends on where you turn it over too :D

[Bulldog4life]

Thanks MJP. The stats on turnovers is interesting:

For the season to date here are the total turnover rankings:



Rk
Team
TO


1
Power
802


2
Dockers
774


3
Demons
768


4
Bombers
763


5
Crows
758


6
Swans
749


7
Tigers
729


8
Suns
723


9
Blues
714


10
Eagles
712


11
Bulldogs
708


12
Hawks
701


13
Kangaroos
696


14
Saints
695


15
Lions
686


16
Magpies
679


17
Giants
642


18
Cats
620


Surprise surprise the least turnover teams are on the top of the ladder. We are ranked 8th lowest and really should be in the top 8, and need to work out why our last quarter fade outs (since the Hawks game) are happening.

And North should be 6th. :)

[Rocket Science]

You'd suggest the impact of turnovers can be remedied to a degree by a mobile, well-organised backline who can scramble to limit the damage.

Not sure that sounds like us at the moment.

[The bulldog tragician]

Thanks MJP. The stats on turnovers is interesting:

For the season to date here are the total turnover rankings:



Rk
Team
TO


1
Power
802


2
Dockers
774


3
Demons
768


4
Bombers
763


5
Crows
758


6
Swans
749


7
Tigers
729


8
Suns
723


9
Blues
714


10
Eagles
712


11
Bulldogs
708


12
Hawks
701


13
Kangaroos
696


14
Saints
695


15
Lions
686


16
Magpies
679


17
Giants
642


18
Cats
620


Surprise surprise the least turnover teams are on the top of the ladder. We are ranked 8th lowest and really should be in the top 8, and need to work out why our last quarter fade outs (since the Hawks game) are happening.

Intriguing. Is it just supporter angst, or do more of ours result directly in opposition goals? And what’s the definition of turnover, because a turnover caused by extreme pressure (five blokes heroically throw their bodies over your boot in the act of kicking) is surely different from taking an ultra risky kick across the ground, or as even Bont did, a kick that was easily intercepted by the man on the mark.

[mjp]

Intriguing. Is it just supporter angst, or do more of ours result directly in opposition goals?

Well, like I said, given 80% of scores are coming from turnover - and we are losing more than we win - I guess MARGINALLY more of our turnovers are resulting in goals.

Mostly though, it is just supporter angst. We all expect the players to be perfect.

[Go_Dogs]

Quoted because it's the truth.

Our 2-way running is dreadful.. to a man our players go half rat power when transitioning from offence into defence. And when you have a backline that isn't all that good at one-on-one defending you're in big trouble.

Except Matt Suckling, who is head and shoulders our best defensive runner.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Good post. Not the end of the discussion but very very good post
Yeah, but to be fair it's turnovers that are killing everyone. Pretty much ALL scoring this year is coming on the back of turnover - scoring either comes from turnover, stoppage or kick-in - and both scores and scoring percentages from stoppages and kick-ins are down.

I get what you are saying I guess - but I just cant shake the feeling that as supporters we want it both ways...all the comments on here about going 'faster'...the fastest sides in the competition (most play-ons) are Melbourne and Carlton - and they are on the bottom. We rank 7th or 8th quickest...Geelong are the slowest and they are on top. Further to that, we aren't happy when the side plays 'safe' footy (like the first half vs Collingwood, generally speaking vs North) but then get upset when the players take a chance to try and open it up and a turnover is the result. I just don't think we are very fair with this - it is bloody hard to strike the right balance of being composed/getting a mark in D50/D-half then trying to hit the 45 in order to accelerate with the opposition sweating on the kick (they practice as well you know).

Admittedly, I was upset a couple of weeks ago because I thought we had the kick/handball balance skewed...again, that is hard. You work for one another and get to the contest in numbers, the reaction is going to be to handball the ball to your team-mate because first option would be preached at training every day.

Again, we have a talented group and even going back to my last post where I talk about Schache not being the CHF focal point, that is probably a dumb comment as it really does feel over the past few weeks we are all getting into 'deck-chairs on the Titanic' mode by suggesting we move player x here and player y there...I mean, a week ago the calls for Dale to be promoted were vigorous and pretty unanimous...a week later he cant play and his career is over...the truth (as always) is in the middle. Yes, he needs to play better but he also needs to be given a chance to do so. The discussion over Richards 'role', Toby's 'role' etc...does it really matter as ultimately what the group needs to do is commit to being in front/1st to the ball in the contest (which we usually are), clean with our hands (50-50 we are) and defend like crazy (20-80 we do).

There was a great stat on that 'TRENDS' podcast a couple of weeks ago about how the team that records the highest number for DEFENSIVE running wins basically every single game...and that team usually records the LOWER number for offensive running...

I have never really liked the whole 'men of mayhem' type commentary, and whilst the 'wall of Biggs' was amazing in the moment and even more remarkable in replay, watching our team around that time it really was incredible how hard we challenged the opposition defensively...defeating the GWS running machine was achieved with running, workrate and effort...I feel we have watched what Richmond, West Coast and Collingwood have done over the past couple of years and defend with structure/positioning (with a bit of help from Howe, McGovern, Shepherd, Grimes and Rance!) and tried to become 'that' sort of team...for whatever reason, it hasn't worked/resonated with our group and we leak goals...so the EFFORT needs to take the place of the structure, the forwards need to be quicker to empty out, we need to apply more pressure through the mids, the defenders need to more aggressively take away leading lanes....

It's going to be ok.

[boydogs]

Geelong go slow because they have so much marking power, they don't need to take risks with the ball to move it down the field and score. They have multiple elite mids and a big gap between their best and worst players, so they allow their best to run from contest to contest and use the ball well. Their slow pace reduces the amount of time their best need to spend resting on the bench, so they're putting out and involving their best more often

Their typical stats show a big marking advantage, fewer handballs and more kicks. Not massive possession counts or goal fests, lots of touches for their stars and limited involvement from their bottom 6

I'd do that too if we had Hawkins, Fort, Stanley, Blicavs, Taylor, Dangerfield, Selwood, Ablett, Kelly & Duncan. We don't, we're more evenly balanced and not strong in the air, so we're better off moving quickly and using our run to get free and score

https://i.imgur.com/8ezbY3r.png

https://i.imgur.com/0FGahQk.png

https://i.imgur.com/Pa5EoSF.png

https://i.imgur.com/U7IxOi0.png

[mjp]

I'd do that too if we had Hawkins, Fort, Stanley, Blicavs, Taylor, Dangerfield, Selwood, Ablett, Kelly & Duncan. We don't, we're more evenly balanced and not strong in the air, so we're better off moving quickly and using our run to get free and score


LOL. Well, let's go with lies and damned statistics.

First off, Geelong have taken 961 marks this season (96.1 per game) and we have taken 912 (91.2 per game)...so the stats that show us with 17 less marks per game than the Catters just aren't accurate.

Of the players you mentioned:
Hawkins - 5 marks per game
Fort - 4 per game (he's played 1 game so not sure how he made the list)
Stanley - 5 per game
Blicavs - 5 per game
Taylor - 5 per game
Dangerfield - 4 per game
Selwood - 4 per game
Ablett - 4 per game
Kelly - 3 per game
Duncan - NINE per game

Stewart has actually taken more marks out of that player grouping than all of them except Duncan...pretty sure they aren't kicking it slow to him through the mids...and most of Duncan's are lateral kicks - it isn't like he is an elite mark, he is just an elite runner who works hard to find space and they kick it to him...Jake Kolo, O'Connor, Miers etc are all ahead of Dangerfield and Selwood...they are taking more marks because of their style of play, not because they are good marks of the footy. They are taking more marks because their style of play emphasises retaining possession of the footy (hence their high kicking numbers) and NOT because they have an amazing group of players who are simply sticking their hands up and going 'KLUNK'.

Further, if you look at our list of players - with the exception of Duncan, our mark averages are pretty similar to Geelong...Hunter (playing the 'DUNCAN Role') averages 7 per game, Crozier (the Stewart role) 6 per game etc...

Geelong are playing slower than us, retaining the ball etc - but a number for number comparison is not going to reveal the differences we are all talking about!

https://afltables.com/afl/stats/2019.html

[bornadog]

Geelong are playing slower than us, retaining the ball etc - but a number for number comparison is not going to reveal the differences we are all talking about!

https://afltables.com/afl/stats/2019.html

Our stats are very good and in most cases equal to our better than Geelong, however where Geelong is better is their forward 50 efficiency and goal accuracy. That makes a massive difference.

[Danjul]

Our stats are very good and in most cases equal to our better than Geelong, however where Geelong is better is their forward 50 efficiency and goal accuracy. That makes a massive difference.

Nobody is confident when one of our players marks the ball 40 - 50 metres from goal. Counts as an inside 50. They struggle to make the distance (couple of exceptions) which affects their accuracy.

We need a natural kicker or a kicking coach or both.

[bornadog]

We need a natural kicker or a kicking coach or both.

Over the past few years we have recruited players that can kick, and I would say overall our kickers are very good. However, our goaling kicking is what let's them down.

[mjp]

Our stats are very good and in most cases equal to our better than Geelong, however where Geelong is better is their forward 50 efficiency and goal accuracy. That makes a massive difference.

Geelong have had 550 Inside 50's. We have had 573.
Geelong have kicked 150.87. We have kicked 115.108.

So scoring SHOTS = 237 ==> 223. Almost exactly the same.

Yes, we have missed some goals, but lost in the wash here seems to be the fact that we are SIXTH for scoring. But only Carlton, Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane (by 2 points) have conceded more points than us...

Accuracy is a problem...but nowhere near the problem leaking goals at the other end is.

I have to admit, I don't understand why it is so hard to get this through to people. We keep banging on about goal-kicking - and yep, it would help. But if you have followed footy for more than 5 seconds you would know that the best defensive teams are at the top of the ladder every single season. I mean, Geelong have conceded 200 points - or 30 goals - LESS than us so far this season...THAT'S why they are ahead of us. Not 'cos they kick straighter at goal. Argue all you like, but we score enough to win (sixth best) but we just concede too many scores...surely the fact that only one team scored 100 points last weekend...and it was a bottom side (North) and they played against us.

Until we are at least in the top HALF of the league in terms of points against, our results are going to continue to fluctuate.

[bornadog]

Geelong have had 550 Inside 50's. We have had 573.
Geelong have kicked 150.87. We have kicked 115.108.

So scoring SHOTS = 237 ==> 223. Almost exactly the same.

Yes, we have missed some goals, but lost in the wash here seems to be the fact that we are SIXTH for scoring. But only Carlton, Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane (by 2 points) have conceded more points than us...

Accuracy is a problem...but nowhere near the problem leaking goals at the other end is.

I have to admit, I don't understand why it is so hard to get this through to people. We keep banging on about goal-kicking - and yep, it would help. But if you have followed footy for more than 5 seconds you would know that the best defensive teams are at the top of the ladder every single season. I mean, Geelong have conceded 200 points - or 30 goals - LESS than us so far this season...THAT'S why they are ahead of us. Not 'cos they kick straighter at goal. Argue all you like, but we score enough to win (sixth best) but we just concede too many scores...surely the fact that only one team scored 100 points last weekend...and it was a bottom side (North) and they played against us.

Until we are at least in the top HALF of the league in terms of points against, our results are going to continue to fluctuate.

Of course you are right.

Another way to look at it is every time you kick a behind, you hand the ball to the opposition, and they can take it all the way up to the other end and score. We need to learn to defend better at both ends of the ground.

[Mantis]

Nobody is confident when one of our players marks the ball 40 - 50 metres from goal. Counts as an inside 50. They struggle to make the distance (couple of exceptions) which affects their accuracy.

We need a natural kicker or a kicking coach or both.

Do you have the stats for our accuracy rates from 40-50m and how it compares to other clubs? Or are your statements based on 'gut feel'?

[Danjul]

Geelong have had 550 Inside 50's. We have had 573.
Geelong have kicked 150.87. We have kicked 115.108.

So scoring SHOTS = 237 ==> 223. Almost exactly the same.

Yes, we have missed some goals, but lost in the wash here seems to be the fact that we are SIXTH for scoring. But only Carlton, Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane (by 2 points) have conceded more points than us...

Accuracy is a problem...but nowhere near the problem leaking goals at the other end is.

I have to admit, I don't understand why it is so hard to get this through to people. We keep banging on about goal-kicking - and yep, it would help. But if you have followed footy for more than 5 seconds you would know that the best defensive teams are at the top of the ladder every single season. I mean, Geelong have conceded 200 points - or 30 goals - LESS than us so far this season...THAT'S why they are ahead of us. Not 'cos they kick straighter at goal. Argue all you like, but we score enough to win (sixth best) but we just concede too many scores...surely the fact that only one team scored 100 points last weekend...and it was a bottom side (North) and they played against us.

Until we are at least in the top HALF of the league in terms of points against, our results are going to continue to fluctuate.

30 goals is only 3 per game. Opposition kicks 2 more and we kick 1 less.

How many times did we see Daniel outmarked by a tall forward who goaled?

Always Happened after turnovers up the ground when our backmen had run forward in a handball chain. Usually the opposition flick the ball into the empty centre corridor and run it straight towards goal. They kick from 45 or pass without pressure. See it most games. Helps explain their better accuracy and penetration . Solved by better kicking skills when going forward.

another observation is opponents get more goals from ruck work on their forward line, because hitouts to advantage put the ball into a runner’s hands. Seen numerous goals this year. Many of our ruck clearances are blind kicks under pressure. Ours is a 50-50 outcome where ball lands. Solved by better ruck skills.

I am also quite sure that the big opposition forwards are kicking more accurately. 20 more long goals means 100 more points against our backs. When we miss a shot at goal from 25 metres (lost count of how often) that is 5 points less against the opposition backmen. At least 4 times every game. It’s rare for Macrae and Dunkley to attempt, that’s 6 points less. Solved by better kicking skills.

[Danjul]

Do you have the stats for our accuracy rates from 40-50m and how it compares to other clubs? Or are your statements based on 'gut feel'?

Does that information exist? Would love to see it. My comment is based on what I have seen.

[mjp]

30 goals is only 3 per game. Opposition kicks 2 more and we kick 1 less.

How many times did we see Daniel outmarked by a tall forward who goaled?

Always Happened after turnovers up the ground when our backmen had run forward in a handball chain. Usually the opposition flick the ball into the empty centre corridor and run it straight towards goal. They kick from 45 or pass without pressure. See it most games. Helps explain their better accuracy and penetration . Solved by better kicking skills when going forward.

another observation is opponents get more goals from ruck work on their forward line, because hitouts to advantage put the ball into a runner’s hands. Seen numerous goals this year. Many of our ruck clearances are blind kicks under pressure. Ours is a 50-50 outcome where ball lands. Solved by better ruck skills.

I am also quite sure that the big opposition forwards are kicking more accurately. 20 more long goals means 100 more points against our backs. When we miss a shot at goal from 25 metres (lost count of how often) that is 5 points less against the opposition backmen. At least 4 times every game. It’s rare for Macrae and Dunkley to attempt, that’s 6 points less. Solved by better kicking skills.

I think the two of us are just going to argue forever.

Poor defending is poor defending. 80% of scores throughout the competition come from turnovers...we HAVE to be able to defend it better (at least in the top HALF of teams in the comp).

Agree we are probably conceding goals from stoppages...but 'not many' is the answer...about 10% of goals are coming from stoppage (bu, bti, cbd) across the comp and when I last checked a few weeks back we were 'average'...I would say it just stands out more when it happens to us as you are a dogs supporter.

The problem is our defending. It just is. Yes, if we just kicked straighter we wouldn't have to defend as much, but you simply have to accept that most scoring in 2019 is coming from turnovers - yes, even by the 'good sides'...but they simply react better/more efficiently OR have the Richmond/Collingwood approach I mentioned earlier where structure behind the ball is 'king'. Your comments about Daniel are fine but he is not the problem - the fact he runs harder and therefore gets back first is the problem...

If the fact that we are 6th for scoring doesn't tell you our kicking is 'mostly' better than average then I don't know what will (and this doesn't refer to goal-kicking).

[Ghost Dog]

I like in the GCoast review on the AFL site where they talk about caring for each other. If you don't do your job, someone else is going to cop it. That's the mentality we have to have, and had in 2016 with people like Biggsy busting a gut to keep it in the 50. Some non-star footballers etched themselves into the ledger of history on that day, just by caring more than the opposition.

[Danjul]

I think the two of us are just going to argue forever.

Poor defending is poor defending. 80% of scores throughout the competition come from turnovers...we HAVE to be able to defend it better (at least in the top HALF of teams in the comp).

Agree we are probably conceding goals from stoppages...but 'not many' is the answer...about 10% of goals are coming from stoppage (bu, bti, cbd) across the comp and when I last checked a few weeks back we were 'average'...I would say it just stands out more when it happens to us as you are a dogs supporter.

The problem is our defending. It just is. Yes, if we just kicked straighter we wouldn't have to defend as much, but you simply have to accept that most scoring in 2019 is coming from turnovers - yes, even by the 'good sides'...but they simply react better/more efficiently OR have the Richmond/Collingwood approach I mentioned earlier where structure behind the ball is 'king'. Your comments about Daniel are fine but he is not the problem - the fact he runs harder and therefore gets back first is the problem...

If the fact that we are 6th for scoring doesn't tell you our kicking is 'mostly' better than average then I don't know what will (and this doesn't refer to goal-kicking).

I think the defenders can improve in a number of ways. I can still see Crozier giving away 5 goals against Freo. A game we should have won. But we also kicked 9:15 , more scoring shots than the opposition.

6th for scoring is because they are getting the ball into the forward line a lot but what are they doing with it?

Earlier in the year we kicked 9:14 to lose by less than a goal.

win those 2 games and we are near the top of the ladder.

There has been an improvement in front of goal lately, but 13:12 against North was exactly the same number of scoring shots as the opposition and still gave a significant loss. Some of North’s goals came from mistakes by defenders but 18:7 was nearly as impressive as Geelong’s 21:6

As you pointed out Geelong has had 23 less inside 50s than us for 35 more goals. From the same number of entries Geelong kicks close to 2 goals for each behind but the Dogs kick only 1.

The defence is too short, leading to them getting outmarked. Attempting to spoil leads to 2 or 3 Dogs in the pack and no one down for the spills. Both lead to opposition goals this year. But we don’t select teams with 2 genuine tall defenders, allowing mediums to intercept and smalls to run. So we cannot afford wasteful forwards.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

I think the two of us are just going to argue forever.

Poor defending is poor defending. 80% of scores throughout the competition come from turnovers...we HAVE to be able to defend it better (at least in the top HALF of teams in the comp).

Agree we are probably conceding goals from stoppages...but 'not many' is the answer...about 10% of goals are coming from stoppage (bu, bti, cbd) across the comp and when I last checked a few weeks back we were 'average'...I would say it just stands out more when it happens to us as you are a dogs supporter.

The problem is our defending. It just is. Yes, if we just kicked straighter we wouldn't have to defend as much, but you simply have to accept that most scoring in 2019 is coming from turnovers - yes, even by the 'good sides'...but they simply react better/more efficiently OR have the Richmond/Collingwood approach I mentioned earlier where structure behind the ball is 'king'. Your comments about Daniel are fine but he is not the problem - the fact he runs harder and therefore gets back first is the problem...

If the fact that we are 6th for scoring doesn't tell you our kicking is 'mostly' better than average then I don't know what will (and this doesn't refer to goal-kicking).

We have struggled to play a settled defence for most of the season. Since losing the likes of Murphy MBoyd and Morris it has been somewhat of a merry go round. We played Wood and Cordy as key defenders for sometime with limited success. Duryea Suckling. Lac Young Roberts and Richards have all come and gone from defence. Our constants have been Crozier Cordy and an out of form Wood. Our two best key defenders would be Trengrove and Naughton who have been forced to play in other positions. As poor as our forward line has been without a settled back line we will continue to struggle

[boydogs]

LOL. Well, let's go with lies and damned statistics.

That comes across as a bit disrespectful


First off, Geelong have taken 961 marks this season (96.1 per game) and we have taken 912 (91.2 per game)...so the stats that show us with 17 less marks per game than the Catters just aren't accurate.

That was from our game against them, 80 marks to them 63 to us


Of the players you mentioned:
Hawkins - 5 marks per game
Fort - 4 per game (he's played 1 game so not sure how he made the list)
Stanley - 5 per game
Blicavs - 5 per game
Taylor - 5 per game

Naughton is our only tall averaging over 4 marks per game


They are taking more marks because their style of play emphasises retaining possession of the footy

Yes, my point is that strategy isn't for everyone, yes a lot of the top sides are taking fewer risks with the ball, but that doesn't mean it would work for us

[Ghost Dog]

Geelong have had 550 Inside 50's. We have had 573.
Geelong have kicked 150.87. We have kicked 115.108.

So scoring SHOTS = 237 ==> 223. Almost exactly the same.

Yes, we have missed some goals, but lost in the wash here seems to be the fact that we are SIXTH for scoring. But only Carlton, Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane (by 2 points) have conceded more points than us...

Accuracy is a problem...but nowhere near the problem leaking goals at the other end is.

I have to admit, I don't understand why it is so hard to get this through to people. We keep banging on about goal-kicking - and yep, it would help. But if you have followed footy for more than 5 seconds you would know that the best defensive teams are at the top of the ladder every single season. I mean, Geelong have conceded 200 points - or 30 goals - LESS than us so far this season...THAT'S why they are ahead of us. Not 'cos they kick straighter at goal. Argue all you like, but we score enough to win (sixth best) but we just concede too many scores...surely the fact that only one team scored 100 points last weekend...and it was a bottom side (North) and they played against us.

Until we are at least in the top HALF of the league in terms of points against, our results are going to continue to fluctuate.

When we had good patches with Rocket, the back six were all hunting together, a very tight unit. Those were good times.
Hargrave, Morris, Harbrow, ( who is still going strong with GC. Did some really good shut downs on small forwards during his time. Steven Milne, others I can't remember the names). In 2016 I remember the care that Matt Boyd took with his kicking and decision making down back. He cared like hell, and was livid if anything got through. That's the level of care we need again. We miss that competitive element of Morris and Matt, to be the wall.

[mjp]

That comes across as a bit disrespectful

Fair enough. I was just laughing at the use of SuperCoach and AFL fantasy numbers...they just don’t reflect the game. I was also frustrated with the list of Geelong player who were ‘strong marks’ that featured a bloke who has played one game, mids like Duncan and Selwood who no-one would say are particularly strong overhead and ignored the fact that several of their defenders (Stewart, Oconnor,Kolo) have high mark numbers as they chip the ball around d50 - Geelong use the corridor LESS than any other side - because it didn’t seem to support your point.

As for retaining the footy not working for us...well - how exactly is the current strategy that sees us conceding loads of goals working? The game is changing - if we don’t have a revolutionary plan, well, we better get with the evolution ‘cos at the moment we are behind the times and leaking goals. North scoring 100 points against us should be a massive red flag for everyone.

[Remi Moses]

Defensive pressure inside our 50 has been apalling as well

[Mofra]

We have struggled to play a settled defence for most of the season. Since losing the likes of Murphy MBoyd and Morris it has been somewhat of a merry go round. We played Wood and Cordy as key defenders for sometime with limited success. Duryea Suckling. Lac Young Roberts and Richards have all come and gone from defence. Our constants have been Crozier Cordy and an out of form Wood. Our two best key defenders would be Trengrove and Naughton who have been forced to play in other positions. As poor as our forward line has been without a settled back line we will continue to struggle
Daniel has played every game back there, but I understand your point.

Eade in his first year basically put six blokes back and left them there come hell or high water so they could get used to playing with each other. Lachie Young getting an extended opportunity speaks to me of Bevo doing the same, in part.

As a team we don't seem to be anticipating each other's movements very well and unfortunately that's not effort or talent, that's just time. With that anticipation comes forward structure and an ability to increase F50 efficiency which is clearly an issue for us right now.

[boydogs]

Fair enough. I was just laughing at the use of SuperCoach and AFL fantasy numbers...they just don’t reflect the game. I was also frustrated with the list of Geelong player who were ‘strong marks’ that featured a bloke who has played one game, mids like Duncan and Selwood who no-one would say are particularly strong overhead and ignored the fact that several of their defenders (Stewart, Oconnor,Kolo) have high mark numbers as they chip the ball around d50 - Geelong use the corridor LESS than any other side - because it didn’t seem to support your point.

I didn't mention the fantasy numbers, they were just in the screenshots between the team names and kicks, handballs and marks. The player list included good marks and elite mids, I was trying to say they play slow (1) because they don't need a fast break to take a mark and (2) so their best mids can get from contest to contest


As for retaining the footy not working for us...well - how exactly is the current strategy that sees us conceding loads of goals working? The game is changing - if we don’t have a revolutionary plan, well, we better get with the evolution ‘cos at the moment we are behind the times and leaking goals. North scoring 100 points against us should be a massive red flag for everyone.

2 & 3 years ago, us and Richmond won the flag with small forward lines and teams full of pressure mids. Teams with slower game plans leading the way half way through this year doesn't mean teams without the cattle to take contested marks, or without big gaps between their best and worst mids, would be better off playing the same way

[mjp]

I didn't mention the fantasy numbers, they were just in the screenshots between the team names and kicks, handballs and marks. The player list included good marks and elite mids, I was trying to say they play slow (1) because they don't need a fast break to take a mark and (2) so their best mids can get from contest to contest

2 & 3 years ago, us and Richmond won the flag with small forward lines and teams full of pressure mids. Teams with slower game plans leading the way half way through this year doesn't mean teams without the cattle to take contested marks, or without big gaps between their best and worst mids, would be better off playing the same way

They play slow cos they have DECIDED to play slow. Their new players - Rohan, Dahl, Miers - aren’t great marks. They aren’t. They have identified that goals are coming primarily from turnover...and turnovers come from rushed footy. They have changed with the times - we haven’t (we are in the top half dozen sides for play ons along with Melbourne and Carlton!) and it is killing us.

Geelong aren’t taking contested marks - they are taking marks by spreading the ground/making it big and creating 1-v-none chances.

Richmond are a different case - I have said this. They defend with structure and if you watch their setup behind the ball, they create a bit of a wall traditionally keyed on Rance and now on Grimes. West coast use a similar system keyed on McGovern - likewise Collingwood keyed on Howe. I thought this was they way we were going late last year basing our back 6 on Naughton and his ability to read and intercept with Crozier as the secondary support, Morris the lockdown and JJ the runner. But that went out the window with the move of Naughton and now we are stuck in the middle of two systems...it looked like Wood was supposed to play the Naughton role early in the year, then he was back to the Morris role and Crozier in the Naughton spot...now, well, it is hard to figure out.

Going fast and opening ourselves up for turnover is KILLING us because we are leaking scores against...we cannot keep playing this way.

[Greystache]

It's been a tough season so far in 2019 but........

Next year will be worse. I picked us to be bottom 4 this year based on the clear lack of direction and any signs of improvement during preseason. This has, and will continue, to play out.

I think depending on the improvement of Carlton and Gold Coast we'll be strongly in the hunt for the wooden spoon next year. I'm confident there'll be again no obvious sign of improvement or team cohesion, weak areas (skills and goal kicking will be worse again), and players who 3 years ago looked like potential stars will continue to stagnate or regress with clear signs of confusion as to their role. 2020, not this year, will be rock bottom before we finally wake up and complete a brutal review of the entire football department. Signing anyone beyond next year is going to be a costly mistake, one we look like we're about to make.

[bulldogtragic]

It's been a tough season so far in 2019 but........

Next year will be worse. I picked us to be bottom 4 this year based on the clear lack of direction and any signs of improvement during preseason. This has, and will continue, to play out.

I think depending on the improvement of Carlton and Gold Coast we'll be strongly in the hunt for the wooden spoon next year. I'm confident there'll be again no obvious sign of improvement or team cohesion, weak areas (skills and goal kicking will be worse again), and players who 3 years ago looked like potential stars will continue to stagnate or regress with clear signs of confusion as to their role. 2020, not this year, will be rock bottom before we finally wake up and complete a brutal review of the entire football department. Signing anyone beyond next year is going to be a costly mistake, one we look like we're about to make.

And we keep avoiding the public blow torch. Brad Scott going, now Brendan Bolton going and Melbourne & Sydney falling off the footy cliff has really avoided us getting the scrutiny we need.

[chef]

It's been a tough season so far in 2019 but........

Next year will be worse. I picked us to be bottom 4 this year based on the clear lack of direction and any signs of improvement during preseason. This has, and will continue, to play out.

I think depending on the improvement of Carlton and Gold Coast we'll be strongly in the hunt for the wooden spoon next year. I'm confident there'll be again no obvious sign of improvement or team cohesion, weak areas (skills and goal kicking will be worse again), and players who 3 years ago looked like potential stars will continue to stagnate or regress with clear signs of confusion as to their role. 2020, not this year, will be rock bottom before we finally wake up and complete a brutal review of the entire football department. Signing anyone beyond next year is going to be a costly mistake, one we look like we're about to make.

Premiers to wooden spoon in 4 seasons, that would have to be a record wouldnt it?

[Greystache]

Premiers to wooden spoon in 4 seasons, that would have to be a record wouldnt it?

West Coast did it- 2006 premiers, 2010 wooden spoon. They had a few things going on off the field however.

[chef]

West Coast did it- 2006 premiers, 2010 wooden spoon. They had a few things going on off the field however.

We've had a few of those as well i guess. Quite the fall from grace.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

It’s been a tough season so far in 2019 but...

... I’ll be in Europe within a few weeks :D

[Murphy'sLore]

It’s been a tough season so far in 2019 but...

... I’ll be in Europe within a few weeks :D

Lucky you.

[bornadog]

It’s been a tough season so far in 2019 but...

... I’ll be in Europe within a few weeks :D

Enjoy

[DOG GOD]

It’s been a tough season so far in 2019 but...

... I’ll be in Europe within a few weeks :D

Awesome. I was there last year, wish I was going back.

[Sedat]

West Coast did it- 2006 premiers, 2010 wooden spoon. They had a few things going on off the field however.
We also did it in 5 years from 1954 to 1959 - we then made the GF again 2 years later and 5 years after that we won another wooden spoon.

Bevo looks completely bereft of inspiration and ideas at the moment. I wonder if his management are quietly sussing out the Carlton gig and a huge payday for him.

[Greystache]

We also did it in 5 years from 1954 to 1959 - we then made the GF again 2 years later and 5 years after that we won another wooden spoon.

Bevo looks completely bereft of inspiration and ideas at the moment. I wonder if his management are quietly sussing out the Carlton gig and a huge payday for him.

If he deep down knows he's a one hit wonder (and there's pretty strong evidence he might be) then he'd be crazy not to take the money and run. If next year continues his year-on-year-on-year-on-year decline his position has to be untenable (assuming we turnover all/most assistants this year to see if that can turn things around) so Carlton would give him at least 3-4 years to turn his form around before exiting the industry. He'd also be going there with a reasonably strong reputation, that would take a hit if it was the club driving his exit rather than him.

[Ghost Dog]

If he deep down knows he's a one hit wonder (and there's pretty strong evidence he might be) then he'd be crazy not to take the money and run. If next year continues his year-on-year-on-year-on-year decline his position has to be untenable (assuming we turnover all/most assistants this year to see if that can turn things around) so Carlton would give him at least 3-4 years to turn his form around before exiting the industry. He'd also be going there with a reasonably strong reputation, that would take a hit if it was the club driving his exit rather than him.

One idea, we need to bring in a 'Ghost writer' for him. A highly experienced coach to tweak things, steady the ship. If Bevo would be humble enough to accept this advice.

[GVGjr]

I honestly can't see why we wouldn't offer Bevo an extended deal until the end of 2022. We need to however, change the football department team around him and probably modify his focus. He doesn't strike me as a career coach so I think he will want to get us back on track before he even thinks of departing.

I get all the concerns about the buck stopping with the coach and I certainly understand that we are performing below expectation but I do think he is trying his hardest and I suggest we should be a bit more patient

Having said that he does look a bit bereft of solutions and in need of a break

It's so important that we continue to develop the playing list and focus on building a better base for next season.
Despite the losses there are still a lot of positives. Sacking a coach is the last resort in my opinion and we are a long way off that.

[bulldogtragic]

I honestly can't see why we wouldn't offer Bevo an extended deal until the end of 2022. We need to however, change the football department team around him and probably modify his focus. He doesn't strike me as a career coach so I think he will want to get us back on track before he even thinks of departing.

I get all the concerns about the buck stopping with the coach and I certainly understand that we are performing below expectation but I do think he is trying his hardest and I suggest we should be a bit more patient

Having said that he does look a bit bereft of solutions and in need of a break

It's so important that we continue to develop the playing list and focus on building a better base for next season.
Despite the losses there are still a lot of positives. Sacking a coach is the last resort in my opinion and we are a long way off that.

He's under contract until the end of next year. Why extend him anytime soon? Did we not feel the financial sting enough after we signed BMac early?

[GVGjr]

He's under contract until the end of next year. Why extend him anytime soon? Did we not feel the financial sting enough after we signed BMac early?

They need to extend his contract this year even if it's just another 12 months. We can't open the door for others.

[mjp]

They need to extend his contract this year even if it's just another 12 months. We can't open the door for others.

100%.

[Bulldog4life]

I honestly can't see why we wouldn't offer Bevo an extended deal until the end of 2022. We need to however, change the football department team around him and probably modify his focus. He doesn't strike me as a career coach so I think he will want to get us back on track before he even thinks of departing.

I get all the concerns about the buck stopping with the coach and I certainly understand that we are performing below expectation but I do think he is trying his hardest and I suggest we should be a bit more patient

Having said that he does look a bit bereft of solutions and in need of a break

It's so important that we continue to develop the playing list and focus on building a better base for next season.
Despite the losses there are still a lot of positives. Sacking a coach is the last resort in my opinion and we are a long way off that.

Agree entirely. Sacking him would be bloody ridiculous. Bevo won a premiership less than 3 full seasons ago. He stays. Lets look at the football department in general including assistants. But Bevo stays.

[Twodogs]

I honestly can't see why we wouldn't offer Bevo an extended deal until the end of 2022. We need to however, change the football department team around him and probably modify his focus. He doesn't strike me as a career coach so I think he will want to get us back on track before he even thinks of departing.

I get all the concerns about the buck stopping with the coach and I certainly understand that we are performing below expectation but I do think he is trying his hardest and I suggest we should be a bit more patient

Having said that he does look a bit bereft of solutions and in need of a break

It's so important that we continue to develop the playing list and focus on building a better base for next season.
Despite the losses there are still a lot of positives. Sacking a coach is the last resort in my opinion and we are a long way off that.

Agree completely we would look like fools who cant handle success so don't deserve any. We do need some new assistants who could look at things in a fresh way. They don't have to be ex-bulldog players either, in fact I'd prefer some experience and new ideas from outside the club. Lets rip off another club's IP for once.

[Twodogs]

If he deep down knows he's a one hit wonder (and there's pretty strong evidence he might be) then he'd be crazy not to take the money and run. If next year continues his year-on-year-on-year-on-year decline his position has to be untenable (assuming we turnover all/most assistants this year to see if that can turn things around) so Carlton would give him at least 3-4 years to turn his form around before exiting the industry. He'd also be going there with a reasonably strong reputation, that would take a hit if it was the club driving his exit rather than him.

If we had the money to bring in 3 new assistants (one senior and two players who have retired in the last couple of years) who would you go for? While we are at it you can throw in two players (any players) from another club(s), would you go for potential, established stars or a combination of both?

I'd throw a shedload at Brett Ratten, and ask about the availability of Luke Hodge and maybe Harry Taylor as coaches. Dunno so much about the players but I'd love to see Adam Trealor in our colours-he would solve a couple of the problems we have with pace and ball use and experience. I'd also like a ruckman while English develops or finds another position and a small forward.

[hujsh]

If we had the money to bring in 3 new assistants (one senior and two players who have retired in the last couple of years) who would you go for? While we are at it you can throw in two players (any players) from another club(s), would you go for potential, established stars or a combination of both?

How much money have we saved up in the Salary Cap from 'Hurley money' to 'Wingard money'? None of that got spent so surely we have a few bob around to pay for an assistant or two.

[Twodogs]

How much money have we saved up in the Salary Cap from 'Hurley money' to 'Wingard money'? None of that got spent so surely we have a few bob around to pay for an assistant or two.

We do but in this fantasy scenario I'm talking monopoly money. Just for this particular exercise we have no financial problems because Peter Gordon hosted Roman Abramovich at a game and he fell in love with the code and the Bulldogs so much that he took all his money out of Chelsea and decided to fund the Bulldogs instead. We have billions, more than all the other clubs and the AFL put together.

[Rocket Science]

On the topic of assistants I hope we're having a purposeful chat with Jared Roughead, assuming he's going to pull the pin at season's end.

He's clearly a natural teacher of the game and might help remedy our inability to successfully develop talls and/or 'forward craft'. He's also the very embodiment of Bevo's versatility' mantra.

Can't imagine it'd hurt the development of English, Schache or Lewis Young one bit.

[Twodogs]

On the topic of assistants I hope we're having a purposeful chat with Jared Roughead, assuming he's going to pull the pin at season's end.

He's clearly a natural teacher of the game and might help remedy our inability to successfully develop talls and/or 'forward craft'. He's also the very embodiment of Bevo's versatility' mantra.

Can't imagine it'd hurt the development of English, Schache or Lewis Young one bit.

Roughy is exactly the sort of assistant I would be interested in. He knows the game and he speaks his mind when he feels the need. He's also been a successful forward and he had prime seats for the Buddy show for a decade, you couldn't help but learn watching Franklyn play the game from 10 metres away.

[hujsh]

Roughy is exactly the sort of assistant I would be interested in. He knows the game and he speaks his mind when he feels the need. He's also been a successful forward and he had prime seats for the Buddy show for a decade, you couldn't help but learn watching Franklyn play the game from 10 metres away.

Not bad down back either.

[Rocket Science]

Not bad down back either.

Exactly, plus stints in the ruck. He's the ultimate swingman.

Get on the dog and bone Bevo and cash in a bit more of your Hawthorn goodwill.

If we're planning on building a team around the big blokes mentioned the least we can do is get them some first class tutelage.

[azabob]

Some of us have been dreaming of coaching changes since the end of 2017. I honestly don’t think any changes will be made to the actual coaches. Only change that will occur is swap of defence, midfield, forward and VFL coaches, as we have done every year.

[bornadog]

Some of us have been dreaming of coaching changes since the end of 2017. I honestly don’t think any changes will be made to the actual coaches. Only change that will occur is swap of defence, midfield, forward and VFL coaches, as we have done every year.

To be fair, there have been a few changes, maybe not as many as we speculate should.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

If we had the money to bring in 3 new assistants (one senior and two players who have retired in the last couple of years) who would you go for? While we are at it you can throw in two players (any players) from another club(s), would you go for potential, established stars or a combination of both?

I'd throw a shedload at Brett Ratten, and ask about the availability of Luke Hodge and maybe Harry Taylor as coaches. Dunno so much about the players but I'd love to see Adam Trealor in our colours-he would solve a couple of the problems we have with pace and ball use and experience. I'd also like a ruckman while English develops or finds another position and a small forward.

I would like Ratten, Hodge and Bartel

[azabob]

I would like Ratten, Hodge and Bartel

Great choices, but...
Bartel is interested in off field more so than coaches. Currently on the GWS board.
Hodge will play on in 2020.
Ratten likely to be Saints senior coach in 2020!

[Bumper Bulldogs]

If we had the money to bring in 3 new assistants (one senior and two players who have retired in the last couple of years) who would you go for? While we are at it you can throw in two players (any players) from another club(s), would you go for potential, established stars or a combination of both?

I'd throw a shedload at Brett Ratten, and ask about the availability of Luke Hodge and maybe Harry Taylor as coaches. Dunno so much about the players but I'd love to see Adam Trealor in our colours-he would solve a couple of the problems we have with pace and ball use and experience. I'd also like a ruckman while English develops or finds another position and a small forward.

I would like Ratten, Hodge and Bartel

[Bumper Bulldogs]

I hear Bartel would love to close to Melbourne and has a very keen eye for talent. Listening to his thoughts and the way he speaks. Totally impressed. Also he come from that core of success from the cats.

[bulldogtragic]

I hear Bartel would love to close to Melbourne and has a very keen eye for talent. Listening to his thoughts and the way he speaks. Totally impressed. Also he come from that core of success from the cats.

I’d love him. Although I’ve heard him say a few times his interest right now is list management. Part time assistant coach, part time assistant list manager?

[Twodogs]

Great choices, but...
Bartel is interested in off field more so than coaches. Currently on the GWS board.
Hodge will play on in 2020.
Ratten likely to be Saints senior coach in 2020!

Yeah but that's going to be the answer we get from anyone we don't actually ask isn't it? It's not like they will come knocking on the front door of Whitten oval and say "I heard that you might have some coaching vacancies? Can I have one please?" We have to get out of the 'poor bugger me' complex and understand that we are an AFL club and can offer the same opportunities as the other 17 AFL clubs can offer.


Aim for the sky and we might just reach the clouds.

[Mofra]

It's hard because from the outside we know so little about assistant coaches and what they could offer.
The only person we can really know a little about is Matty Boyd as he was uncompromising as a player and captain so has leadership ability, and had the ability to adapt during his career given he went from inside mid to HB rebounder.

I would assume those qualities make him an effective assistant coach. Begin exposed to another team's system means he's probably the only person I can really put forward as someone I'd want as an assistant next year.

[chef]

It's been a tough season so far in 2019 but........

Next season will be worse;):(

[bornadog]

It's been a tough season so far in 2019 but........

Next season will be worse;):(

time will tell

[choconmientay]

A fair assessment of our team from theroar, by jay-croucher (https://www.theroar.com.au/author/jay-croucher/)

The nowhere Bulldogs are letting another season slip away (https://www.theroar.com.au/2019/06/05/the-nowhere-bulldogs-are-letting-another-season-slip-away/)


The Bulldogs’ best is electric, their worst catastrophic. When they’re on, their passages slot seamlessly into the 2016 catalogue.
Too often though, they look the team that threw away their season early with inexplicable losses to Gold Coast and Carlton.

Their best and worst is always seen in the same game. They can never string four quarters together but they have too much class not to put in one, two or three.

They crushed the Tigers, handled Brisbane and could have beaten Collingwood. They largely outplayed the Dockers in Perth but kissed the game away with comical errors. They matched the Cats early into the fourth quarter in Geelong and kicked eight goals in a row to demolish Hawthorn from nowhere. Gold Coast beat them in Melbourne and they lost to Carlton by 44 points.

Nothing makes sense with the Dogs, the strangest team in the competition. Their best is exquisite – and betting on or against them is a fruitless exercise in speculating how long that best will sustain in a given week.

They still come in the waves that carried them in 2016. Waves generated by sleek toughness – the hardness to dominate the contest and win the ball, and then the quick-twitch, short-passing genius to get it into space and drive forward.

No team in recent memory has had the in-close, rapid-fire handballing game of the ’16 Dogs. It was telepathic, impossible in its speed and timing.

Players were handballing before they had the ball, to teammates who weren’t there yet. It was like watching a series of quarterbacks throwing timing patterns to receivers anticipating their movement based on the playbook – except the Dogs had no script, just eyes in the backs of their heads.

In space, the short-passing maestros would take over – Jack Macrae, Lachie Hunter and Caleb Daniel, who caress the ball more than kick it.

You still get all this in their games. Macrae, Hunter and Daniel are a joy to watch. Marcus Bontempelli is the best player in the league to watch and – when he’s on – Jason Johannisen isn’t far behind him.

But so much of the premiership team has been lost and the pieces of the chain between the stars are rickety. The perfect synchrony of movement is only touched in spurts and it never feels sustainable – more as though strangers are being briefly elevated by someone else’s memory.

Post-premiership, the Bulldogs have been a mess, dragged down by an odd mix of hangovers and strange coaching and team-building decisions. The club is bereft of key position players, a problem that has plagued them for decades – how long did we spend talking ourselves into Mitch Hahn and all the Mitch Hahns who went by other names?

Aaron Naughton’s future is bright but he’s not a consistent focal point yet. Billy Gowers might be the worst player in the AFL – his continued selection is so bizarre it’s almost suspicious.

The team longs for game-changing key defenders beyond the mere workmanlike competence of Zaine Cordy and Jackson Trengove. Failing to replace Joel Hamling and find a successor for Dale Morris is inexplicable. As a result, the Dogs leak goals.

They’re leaking seasons too now. The core of Bontempelli, Macrae, Hunter, Johannisen, Daniel, Josh Dunkley, Toby McLean, Tom Liberatore and Mitch Wallis is still entirely 27 or younger – there is time for this team to rise again, but this is three precious years they’ve wasted already.

2016 was supposed to give the Bulldogs fan a grace period that might last an eternity – eternity, though, is already beginning to wear thin.

[The Underdog]

A fair assessment of our team from theroar, by jay-croucher (https://www.theroar.com.au/author/jay-croucher/)

The nowhere Bulldogs are letting another season slip away (https://www.theroar.com.au/2019/06/05/the-nowhere-bulldogs-are-letting-another-season-slip-away/)

Wow, that’s pretty spot on. The Billy Gowers line is a little over the top but contains truth.

[Mofra]

I love Gowers' energy, it is something we lack. Yes he makes mistakes, but I'll cop that over someone who lacks intensity.

With all due respect to anybody on an AFL list, while Cam Polson is at Carlton there isn't anyone else who can realistically claim the title of worst.

[Axe Man]

A mostly good article apart from the Gowers line and this:


The team longs for game-changing key defenders beyond the mere workmanlike competence of Zaine Cordy and Jackson Trengove. Failing to replace Joel Hamling and find a successor for Dale Morris is inexplicable. As a result, the Dogs leak goals.

Ever heard of Aaron Naughton? He would be back there if not for the absence of Boyd and Schache for different reasons.

[bornadog]

A mostly good article apart from the Gowers line and this:



Ever heard of Aaron Naughton? He would be back there if not for the absence of Boyd and Schache for different reasons.

That article is written by a supporter with no expertise or knowledge of the club.

[Danjul]

What I want to know about Gowers is why is he getting half as many possessions as last year!
And why is McLean? And others.

Strange coaching and team building decisions are the only part of the article that can lead to some quick improvement.

[The bulldog tragician]

. Billy Gowers might be the worst player in the AFL – his continued selection is so bizarre it’s almost suspicious.

This line makes ME suspicious that this has been written by one of Gowers’ (many) detractors on this forum!

[1eyedog]

A fair assessment of our team from theroar, by jay-croucher (https://www.theroar.com.au/author/jay-croucher/)

The nowhere Bulldogs are letting another season slip away (https://www.theroar.com.au/2019/06/05/the-nowhere-bulldogs-are-letting-another-season-slip-away/)

Very sad reading that

[Ghost Dog]

Very sad reading that

Mitch Hahn was a pretty good player for us. Not sure I like that part.
Otherwise, yes well written. We are a tipsters' nightmares.

[Twodogs]

Mitch Hahn was a pretty good player for us. Not sure I like that part.
Otherwise, yes well written. We are a tipsters' nightmares.

I think he's talking about Mitch's time forward in his last season where, apart from running into a rampaging Barry Hall and effectively finishing his career, I thought he was pretty good.

[bornadog]

The Season in 60 seconds


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0662HPkoVw

[hujsh]

The Season in 60 seconds


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0662HPkoVw

It sure has been a great season...

[bornadog]

It sure has been a great season...

At least Naughton is a highlight

[Rocket Science]

Hahaaa now show me the glass-half-empty director's cut.

[bulldogtragic]

Hahaaa now show me the glass-half-empty director's cut.

Optimism, pessimism... Reminds me of a great quote by Prof. Cornell West about the huge 'evidence based' distinction between optimism and hope (when looking at an issue. Here, it was progression on racial equality):

"Optimism is a notion that there’s sufficient evidence that would allow us to infer that if we keep doing what we’re doing, things will get better. I don’t believe that. I’m a prisoner of hope."

Might be our season 2019 motto.