Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 13, Vs Carlton

[Scraggers]

Welcome to the Always Right Match Committee Thread. The Match Committee threads has been named after long time WOOF member Always Right who tragically passed away in March 2018.

If you were on the Western Bulldogs match committee what changes would you make after our Round 11 match against West Coast for our Round 13, 2019 match against Carlton at Marvel Stadium?

For those new to these threads, please give a brief explanation for your changes ... this would add a lot of value to the discussion.

[GVGjr]

Bump

[bulldogtragic]

The mob that smacked us around and kicked over 100 points, something we don't do...

I'm beyond caring at this point. The players by and large look disinterested no matter the ins or outs. It's shuffling deck chairs on the titanic. Something is happening to make talented athletes perform so poorly as a whole. Until we can address that as a club, and who might be behind it, the ins and outs are a moot point.

[DOG GOD]

The mob that smacked us around and kicked over 100 points, something we don't do...

I'm beyond caring at this point. The players by and large look disinterested no matter the ins or outs. It's shuffling deck chairs on the titanic. Something is happening to make talented athletes perform so poorly as a whole. Until we can address that as a club, and who might be behind it, the ins and outs are a moot point.

And they’ll be due for their 2nd win

[westbulldog]

Out
Gardner McLean Lipinski Dale Lachie Young
In
Schache Lewis Young, Sweet Jong West

[Ghost Dog]

Kicking multiple points is demoralising. We didn't deserve to let ourselves be beaten by that much. We are not that bad.

Haven't really looked at the opposition for next week. But we need a bit of hardness and experence in the midfield. Love to see Jongy come in.
In: a new goal kicking coach

[bornadog]

Out
Gardner McLean Lipinski Dale Lachie Young
In
Schache Lewis Young, Sweet Jong West

Schache was injured yesterday, but not sure the extent of it.

[G-Mo77]

I haven't watched the game so can't say who should be dropped but it matters very little at this point. I can't see the axe being swung too hard as we don't yoyo players in and out of the team and persevere.

[Mofra]

Has Macrae mentally checked out? He's a shadow of his former self.

At halftime I had JJ as an out to make a statement, however he clearly responded to a bake at halftime.

I'd put Gardner back, English forward, and put Trengove in the ruck. If Carlton get easy supply to Cripps they win, inside mid opponents can kill us (Cripps, Cunnington have done it and evn Gaff destroyed us for clearances yesterday).

[Danjul]

In the last three weeks the opposition teams have kicked 60 goals 20 against the Dogs. That’s 380 points.
We have had 3 disastrous losses.

In the last three weeks the opposition teams have had a total of 10 more scoring shots than the Dogs.

Focusing on the second statement holds the key to better success. Why do 10 kicks make so much difference?

Because The selectors have been doing the same thing for the last 40 games and it has not worked. I am sure they will keep doing it.

What should they be doing? Getting a new mindset would be a good start. Focus on what is actually generating the results for a change instead of blaming players. Some of the suggestions made here seem very positive to me.

[bornadog]

In the last three weeks the opposition teams have kicked 60 goals 20 against the Dogs. That’s 380 points.
We have had 3 disastrous losses.

In the last three weeks the opposition teams have had a total of 10 more scoring shots than the Dogs.

Focusing on the second statement holds the key to better success. Why do 10 kicks make so much difference?

Because The selectors have been doing the same thing for the last 40 games and it has not worked. I am sure they will keep doing it.

What should they be doing? Getting a new mindset would be a good start. Focus on what is actually generating the results for a change instead of blaming players. Some of the suggestions made here seem very positive to me.

MJP has been telling us that we have a problem defending, and that was highly evident yesterday, yet we have been banging on about inaccuracy in front of goal. Guess what, that is our problem - defence all over the ground.

[Rocket Science]

Essendon managed to sit on Cripps yesterday for his lowest possessions tally for the year.

Which probably means he'll be revved up for a blinder.

#notags

[hujsh]

Change all the fringe players in the world. Won't matter if our 'stars' get smashed by theirs.

[bornadog]

Essendon managed to sit on Cripps yesterday for his lowest possessions tally for the year.

Which probably means he'll be revved up for a blinder.

#notags

That is the key to beating Carlton, he killed us last time. They don't have anyone else in the midfield.

Could Mclean play as a tagger?

[Rocket Science]

That is the key to beating Carlton, he killed us last time. They don't have anyone else in the midfield.

Could Mclean play as a tagger?

It sounds like the sort of thing Bevo would conjure to keep things interesting. At least it'd involve McLean in more active play I suppose.

Putting our boring, common-sense hat back on you'd say Dunks is best equipped for the task on Cripps but he's arguably our most influential mid at the moment so do we rob our engine room of some drive in the hope Cripps gets 30 instead of 45?

It's all a bit moot unless Macrae, Libba and Co can find another gear.

[Mofra]

That is the key to beating Carlton, he killed us last time. They don't have anyone else in the midfield.

Could Mclean play as a tagger?
I think we need a defensive forward if Simpson is healthy to play again.
We've tried McLean and Suckling there. Perhaps Rhylee or Porter get their shot? Porter laid 8 tackles last week and Rhylee just looks like he will be a player.

[bornadog]

I think we need a defensive forward if Simpson is healthy to play again.
We've tried McLean and Suckling there. Perhaps Rhylee or Porter get their shot? Porter laid 8 tackles last week and Rhylee just looks like he will be a player.

It was very hard to pick out who played well yesterday at VFL ad the conditions were atrocious. Rhylee was the stand out along with Porter and Lew Young.

I will wait till this weeks VFL game before deciding on who is in and out.

At this stage, I am thinking Mclean needs a spell, I am still not impressed with Dale - he had chances to kick a few and just fluffs it.

Williams was very disappointing and the break for Smith can't come quick enough.

[bornadog]

Carlton most likely to sack their coach - hope it happens this week and not the week after :eek:

[Danjul]

What did we learn from the West Coast game that can be applied to give a better result in the next one?

1. look at the last minute of play. McLean marks on the lead 45 metres from goal (on an angle). Walks back to 60 metres. Kicks inboard to a teammate 60 metres from goal. They walk back to 70 metres. They pass to someone 40 metres from goal but it is turned over.

Two inside 50s and no shot at goal. Why? Because the first entry was dumb and should not have happened.

The team needs to develop forward craft. Who can kick what and from where.

2. Look at the match stats in the Age. One of West Coast’s top 10 possession getters had more handballs than kicks. Guess what it was for the Dogs. That’s the reason our backline gets overwhelmed, the kicking teams have better score lines.

we had 50 more handballs than Geelong but they kicked 21-6 and we had 45 more than West Coast and they kicked 21-7.

obviously some handball is great, but a lot of ours simply puts forwards and backs in poor situations.

[Danjul]

MJP has been telling us that we have a problem defending, and that was highly evident yesterday, yet we have been banging on about inaccuracy in front of goal. Guess what, that is our problem - defence all over the ground.

we had 40 more disposals than Geelong and 20 more than West Coast. But got smashed both times.

What we do with the ball is our biggest problem.

fix that and the defenders will have a chance.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Carlton most likely to sack their coach - hope it happens this week and not the week after :eek:

Your wish granted.
Bolton gone.

[bornadog]

Your wish granted.
Bolton gone.

Better than just before our game.

[Greystache]

Has Macrae mentally checked out? He's a shadow of his former self.

At halftime I had JJ as an out to make a statement, however he clearly responded to a bake at halftime.

I'd put Gardner back, English forward, and put Trengove in the ruck. If Carlton get easy supply to Cripps they win, inside mid opponents can kill us (Cripps, Cunnington have done it and evn Gaff destroyed us for clearances yesterday).

Honestly I wouldn't be surprised to see Macrae following Dah's example from last year and request a trade to "freshen up". He looks frustrated by the chaotic nature of the team and random roles players play from week to week, and looks like he's just going through the motions until the season finishes. He's a player who's very strong on his views of where and how he plays his best footy, and likes stability, neither of which he's getting anymore. I can see him fielding offers where he can play as a permanent midfielder with a defined role in a team with some stability. I hope I'm wrong because he's close to my favourite player but he's playing like someone looking for the door.

[Ozza]

Has Macrae mentally checked out? He's a shadow of his former self.

At halftime I had JJ as an out to make a statement, however he clearly responded to a bake at halftime.

I'd put Gardner back, English forward, and put Trengove in the ruck. If Carlton get easy supply to Cripps they win, inside mid opponents can kill us (Cripps, Cunnington have done it and evn Gaff destroyed us for clearances yesterday).

You had JJ out at half time as a statement?
He made one awful mistake (although I could see what he was trying to do, the WCE player tread water rather than being drawn to JJ) - but otherwise, at half time I think JJ had 18 possessions and was going at 90% efficiency and cover more metres gained that anyone on the ground. He was breaking the lines and hitting targets and was our best on ground.

[Ozza]

One thing is for sure - we won't tag Cripps. He'll just get 35+ because we are much too clever to tag.

Gaff must have slept in the change rooms the night before the game he'd have been that excited. His last 5 games v us, 5 wins, and 175 disposals (35 per game). Him and Darling just dine out on us every single time.

So we will allow Cripps to do the same.

Will also look forward to watching Lachie Young and Easton Wood play on Carlton forwards that are 10-12 cms taller than them. Cordy too I'd guess.

[mjp]

we had 40 more disposals than Geelong and 20 more than West Coast. But got smashed both times.

What we do with the ball is our biggest problem.

fix that and the defenders will have a chance.

I don't want to go back and check the numbers for Geelong, but vs West Coast we had more possessions...but LESS KICKS.

Without wanting to dig out my posts of two weeks ago where I detailed all of this let me cut to the chase:

1/. Our ball movement is a MASSIVE problem - we over handball and generally f about with it. And we play-on too much particularly when we have no 'forwards' (aka team-mates) in position ahead of us to receive the ball.

2/. Whilst our ball movement cannot be isolated from our defensive mechanisms (obviously), for you to continue to insist that if we just use the ball a bit better everything will be OK is simply crazy. We are not set behind the ball EVER.

[mjp]

You had JJ out at half time as a statement?


I would have dropped Macrae after the last game against Carlton and said so on here (not that I got a lot of support for it at the time). Terrible body language and it has not gotten any better...yesterday it may have been the worst I have ever seen it.

Maybe he is injured - if so, I wish the club would just tell us.

As an aside, has Bontempelli played a worse game than he did yesterday? What is actually WRONG with these guys? Why does it seem as if they simply don't care? (I know that they do - and are suffering a lot more than we are - but it just LOOKS TERRIBLE). Gowers does stupid things and is frustrating, but at least (in his own misdirected ways) he seems as if he gives a @#$%.

[bornadog]

I would have dropped Macrae after the last game against Carlton and said so on here (not that I got a lot of support for it at the time). Terrible body language and it has not gotten any better...yesterday it may have been the worst I have ever seen it.

Maybe he is injured - if so, I wish the club would just tell us.

As an aside, has Bontempelli played a worse game than he did yesterday? What is actually WRONG with these guys? Why does it seem as if they simply don't care? (I know that they do - and are suffering a lot more than we are - but it just LOOKS TERRIBLE). Gowers does stupid things and is frustrating, but at least (in his own misdirected ways) he seems as if he gives a @#$%.

Is it a loss of confidence?

[Mofra]

You had JJ out at half time as a statement?
Yes. And I really think we need to do something drastic, not just continue as if everything is fine.

After Macrae's last efforts he needs to be read the riot act. It's all well and good to demote a Schache or Richards as second year players with us, but right now we need to reward effort over reputation/ability.
Bailey Dale with zero tackles in two games goes as well for mine until he can demonstrate intensity.

[Mofra]

Is it a loss of confidence?
Defensive running isn't about confidence as much as it's about care and effort.
Macrae just isn't getting to enough contests in any phase of the game in comparison to what he's capable of.

[chef]

Is it a loss of confidence?

Or loss of giving a shit?

Seems like hes going through the motions.

[mjp]

It's all well and good to demote a Schache or Richards as second year players with us, but right now we need to reward effort over reputation/ability.
Bailey Dale with zero tackles in two games goes as well for mine until he can demonstrate intensity.

Hey - a post that makes sense. If the players aren't following the plan - and how can they be? - then the ones who aren't following it need to be left out. And that means one of our 'key players'/'most talented players' needs to go.

There is no point in making changes around the periphery of the side. Schache doesn't decide games at this point in his career. He doesn't lead. Bont, Macrae, Wood, Hunter, Libber, Suckling, JJ...these are (like it or lump it) our leaders. Are they playing according to our 'trademark' or not. If not, relegate them.

What's the worse thing that can happen? We lose? In case no-one has noticed, we are already doing that.

[Ozza]

I would have dropped Macrae after the last game against Carlton and said so on here (not that I got a lot of support for it at the time). Terrible body language and it has not gotten any better...yesterday it may have been the worst I have ever seen it.

Maybe he is injured - if so, I wish the club would just tell us.

As an aside, has Bontempelli played a worse game than he did yesterday? What is actually WRONG with these guys? Why does it seem as if they simply don't care? (I know that they do - and are suffering a lot more than we are - but it just LOOKS TERRIBLE). Gowers does stupid things and is frustrating, but at least (in his own misdirected ways) he seems as if he gives a @#$%.

Bontempelli had a shocker yesterday. He was awful at the centre bounces and had the fumbles all day.
Given he's been as good as nearly anyone in the league this year - I'm prepared to forgive!

[mjp]

Bontempelli had a shocker yesterday. He was awful at the centre bounces and had the fumbles all day.
Given he's been as good as nearly anyone in the league this year - I'm prepared to forgive!

Yeah - he's been epic this season, no argument from me. Not everyone has though...

[Danjul]

I don't want to go back and check the numbers for Geelong, but vs West Coast we had more possessions...but LESS KICKS.

Without wanting to dig out my posts of two weeks ago where I detailed all of this let me cut to the chase:

1/. Our ball movement is a MASSIVE problem - we over handball and generally f about with it. And we play-on too much particularly when we have no 'forwards' (aka team-mates) in position ahead of us to receive the ball.

2/. Whilst our ball movement cannot be isolated from our defensive mechanisms (obviously), for you to continue to insist that if we just use the ball a bit better everything will be OK is simply crazy. We are not set behind the ball EVER.

I have never suggested that. I have said repeatedly that they are using a high risk game plan which requires better skills than they have.

So I agree 100 % with everything you have said except for using the ball better won’t make a significant difference.

Very few in the team can reliably pass 40 metres by foot. Often they miss by 10 or 15, with the ball going out or making it easy for the opposition to gather when our game plan has put half of the team out of position. The kicking skills are the worst I have seen in a long time and continually put others under pressure. And should be fixed as quickly as possible.

How often do they kick to a contest where we get outmarked? Very often. Because the team lacks height they form packs where everyone tries to spoil, a gift for the opponents. Then Two or three kicks from the opponents and they have either a goal or a shot at goal. See it week after week.

The ball mistakes are killing us. So is bad strategy.

where do our defenders set up? They stay back because most are not strong enough to play body on body. They try to jump and spoil. That’s why we see so many chest marks from spearing entries. And I suspect some play under extra pressure knowing they will be dropped quickly.

And where do you find them? Frequently not near their opponent because they have to flood forward with the handball game. Turnovers happen too often.

Look at how often our defenders are in the forward half of the ground. Dangerous when the opposition is faster.

When the team is defending they zone off from their opponents to guard space, so opposition kick ins ,for example, generate twice as many metres gained as ours.

It is not the player’s fault if they are obviously following orders.

[GVGjr]

In the last three weeks the opposition teams have kicked 60 goals 20 against the Dogs. That’s 380 points.
We have had 3 disastrous losses.

In the last three weeks the opposition teams have had a total of 10 more scoring shots than the Dogs.

Focusing on the second statement holds the key to better success. Why do 10 kicks make so much difference?

Because The selectors have been doing the same thing for the last 40 games and it has not worked. I am sure they will keep doing it.

What should they be doing? Getting a new mindset would be a good start. Focus on what is actually generating the results for a change instead of blaming players. Some of the suggestions made here seem very positive to me.

And our response has been nowhere near as accurate

[mjp]

I have never suggested that. I have said repeatedly that they are using a high risk game plan which requires better skills than they have.


Let's continue to agree to disagree. In post #20 of this very thread you said:
"What we do with the ball is our biggest problem. fix that and the defenders will have a chance."

I do like how you are saying we need to kick more. We 100% do.
I do like how you are identifying that our defenders are pushing up to become involved in (unnecessary) handball chains.
I agree both of those things are major problems. I don't think we are WORSE kicks than other sides...but because we handball ourselves into trouble so many times - and play-on when we don't need to - we 'pluck' ball movement decisions from a place where the sun doesn't shine and bad things are the result.

I don't necessarily agree it isn't the players fault - I am not sure they are following orders ('cos I don't know what the orders are)...BUT when defenders are trailing up and allowing lead-up space (aka 'caravanning') on their opponents, I am pretty sure that they aren't being told to do that. We are (under Bevo) a zone defending, play in front sort of defensive group. I will continue to insist that we started changing this last year to a behind the ball structure consisting of 1v1 match-ups keyed on Naughton as the defensive interceptor...but that change was thrown out (along with everything else - Williams in the mids, Trengove in the ruck etc etc) in Rd#1 this season after the practice match disasters and I remain convinced that has contributed to the chaos/problems behind the ball. Because whilst ball-movement changes can be made 'in season', defensive ones are HARD because they are not instinctive to most players. About the only thing that hasn't changed is the use of Daniel as a d50 distributor...but I think he would be a LOT more effective if he had Naughton floating around saving his bacon...but we'll never know now, will we??

[GVGjr]

Will we do the unthinkable and play someone on Cripps to limit his influence?
If so, who will we go with?

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Will we do the unthinkable and play someone on Cripps to limit his influence?
If so, who will we go with?
Makes sense as Cripps is their playmaker. Dunkley is our in form midfielder and appeals as the obvious one with good aerial skills to match Cripps in the air. The other challenge facing the Club is our ability to match the Blues height on their forward line. We were far too short previously.

[Rocket Science]

Intrigued to note Fagan's response when asked yesterday about Cripps' influence.

He basically said they had a crack at tagging him but it wasn't working so they pretty much gave up on the idea.

Gobsmacking honesty.

If we plonk Dunks onto him I trust the other mids will lift their output to compensate.

[bornadog]

Will we do the unthinkable and play someone on Cripps to limit his influence?
If so, who will we go with?

I think we lost the game in our last encounter, purely due to Cripps. He alone killed our midfield.

[GVGjr]

I think we lost the game in our last encounter, purely due to Cripps. He alone killed our midfield.

So it's a no? :)

I think Dunkley needs to tag him for at least 50% of the game

[bornadog]

So it's a no? :)

I think Dunkley needs to tag him for at least 50% of the game

I think we should try and tag him. I am thinking of Mclean.

[Twodogs]

Intrigued to note Fagan's response when asked yesterday about Cripps' influence.

He basically said they had a crack at tagging him but it wasn't working so they pretty much gave up on the idea.

Gobsmacking honesty.

If we plonk Dunks onto him I trust the other mids will lift their output to compensate.

When I first read that I thought you had said 'limit' and that made more sense in the context of this season. "great news, Dunks is all over Cripps like a cheap suit and giving him a real bath. That means the rest of us don't have to bother so much."

But then I saw that you said 'lift' and now I'm starting to worry about you...

[Happy Days]

I don't like taggers but Cripps might necessarily be an exception.

I really hope we're willing to try Trengove in the ruck if Kreuzer starts to get on top. He was phenomenal last time against us and leaving the ruck unchecked really hurts later in the game if he gets the opportunity to get his cadence down. I want Tim forward but I understand persevering with him in the middle, but at the same time hope we adjust if necessary.

[GVGjr]

I think we should try and tag him. I am thinking of Mclean.

A suggestion worth considering despite the size difference, I wonder if it could run McLean into a bit better form as well.

[Mitcha]

I think we should try and tag him. I am thinking of Mclean.
Mclean doesn't have the size or body strength to compete with Cripps, has to be Dunkley.

[GVGjr]

Given Carlton's height in the forward line exposed us last time surely there must be some temptation to bring in Lewis Young or Schache in (subject to fitness tests) so that we can add some extra height back there. I think Young or Gardner (perhaps both) need to go back and help Cordy.

Many of you know I was banging on about bringing Trengove to the club for years ago but one of the primary reasons was that I remember him as a junior footballer shadowing Kreuzer around in a TAC final between the Cannons and Knights and performing strongly.
Kreuzer returned from injury in our previous encounter this season and toweled up Tim English and the following week Trengove returned to our senior line up. I'm hoping we consider using Trengove to match up on Kreuzer again this week or at the least to help out Big Tim

[GVGjr]

Mclean doesn't have the size or body strength to compete with Cripps, has to be Dunkley.

That's the concern, still it's probably going to need a tandem.

Can you see us trying to curb Cripps or just backing our mids to perform?

[bornadog]

Mclean doesn't have the size or body strength to compete with Cripps, has to be Dunkley.

I am thinking more the ground work rather than in the air. We will lose something if Dunkley becomes a straight tagger.

[Bulldog Joe]

That's the concern, still it's probably going to need a tandem.

Can you see us trying to curb Cripps or just backing our mids to perform?

I would be inclined to give Macrae the responsibility. He needs something to change his output and I would put it on him to get the better of Cripps. He is big enough and can compete in the air (despite often choosing not to) and on the ground.

[GVGjr]

I would be inclined to give Macrae the responsibility. He needs something to change his output and I would put it on him to get the better of Cripps. He is big enough and can compete in the air (despite often choosing not to) and on the ground.

Worth considering as well.

[Twodogs]

I would be inclined to give Macrae the responsibility. He needs something to change his output and I would put it on him to get the better of Cripps. He is big enough and can compete in the air (despite often choosing not to) and on the ground.

Good call. Maybe whisper in his ear as he is about to run out on the ground that Cripps is the sort of player he should be modelling himself on so pay attention to the little things he does because currently that is the difference between Jack Macrae and the best players in the competition (in that the better players kick goals, try and take overhead marks and dont wander around the field with their hands on their hips.) Put it on Jack that he is a better player than his output at the moment suggests and we shouldn't really be using him to tag the opposition gun but that's where we are at the moment.

[Mantis]

I am thinking more the ground work rather than in the air. We will lose something if Dunkley becomes a straight tagger.

Which team will suffer more if both Cripps & Dunkley have minimal effect on the game?

[soupman]

Which team will suffer more if both Cripps & Dunkley have minimal effect on the game?

Yeah this is my view as well. As long as Bontempelli isn't tagging him then as long as it's somewhat effective i don't care who we put on him.

[Ozza]

Which team will suffer more if both Cripps & Dunkley have minimal effect on the game?

Having Dunkley tag or "put some time into" (as Bevo likes to say it) Cripps is essential. Dunks is very strong and competitive and the only suitable person to do the role in my view. And Mantis is spot on - that if both Dunks and Cripps have a limited impact then we are better off. Ideal realistic scenario is that Dunks and Cripps both finish with 18-20 possessions. If that happens we will win.

I'd like to see Macrae and Hunter play as wingmen for the day. Libba to go inside with Bont and Dunks as much as possible, and for us to actually play some tall defenders.

[Mantis]

I'd like to see Macrae and Hunter play as wingmen for the day. Libba to go inside with Bont and Dunks as much as possible, and for us to actually play some tall defenders.

I'd like to get McLean around the contest more too... we seriously lack creative & agile players in the middle and he fills this void.

Agree on the choice of wingmen too, I really struggle on why Macrae has become an inside mid when he's much more suited to playing around the periphery.

If Carlton go with McKay, Casboult, McGovern & Curnow up forward how would you match them up?

[GVGjr]

I'd like to get McLean around the contest more too... we seriously lack creative & agile players in the middle and he fills this void.

Agree on the choice of wingmen too, I really struggle on why Macrae has become an inside mid when he's much more suited to playing around the periphery.

If Carlton go with McKay, Casboult, McGovern & Curnow up forward how would you match them up?

In order, Lewis Young, Trengove, Wood and Cordy would be my match-ups and Gardner would be a back-up

[GVGjr]

I just read that there is a doubt on Gowers fitness and that both Crozier and Wallis are likely to be available
Would Dickson also be a strong candidate to come in for Gowers?

[Ghost Dog]

How did Dickson do last week in the V?

[hujsh]

How did Dickson do last week in the V?

Think he got 3 goals last game

[Ozza]

I'd like to get McLean around the contest more too... we seriously lack creative & agile players in the middle and he fills this void.

Agree on the choice of wingmen too, I really struggle on why Macrae has become an inside mid when he's much more suited to playing around the periphery.

If Carlton go with McKay, Casboult, McGovern & Curnow up forward how would you match them up?

One of the things I liked about having Hunter and Macrae play the wings - was that their incredible work rate meant that we always had that hit up kick around the ground, so we could avoid going long down the line a lot of the time. Since Macrae became inside mid, he has lost that aspect from his game a bit. Hunter is still everywhere, but given the choice, Macrae is more creative and can open up the play with his ability to take the '45' (degree) kick.

[Mofra]

One of the things I liked about having Hunter and Macrae play the wings - was that their incredible work rate meant that we always had that hit up kick around the ground, so we could avoid going long down the line a lot of the time. Since Macrae became inside mid, he has lost that aspect from his game a bit. Hunter is still everywhere, but given the choice, Macrae is more creative and can open up the play with his ability to take the '45' (degree) kick.
Allows McLean to take midfield rotations (where he played his best football) and Dunkley stays in the midfield too.
I like this idea.

[bornadog]

If Crozier, Duryea are available, Gowers injured and the need for more talls, there could be a few changes this week.

Lewis Young needs to come in, as does Crozier.

[1eyedog]

How far is Jong off? He's versatile and can run with or play a defensive forward role.

[bornadog]

How far is Jong off? He's versatile and can run with or play a defensive forward role.

He has played the last two VFL games, but hasn't set the world on fire.

[GVGjr]

If Crozier, Duryea are available, Gowers injured and the need for more talls, there could be a few changes this week.

Lewis Young needs to come in, as does Crozier.

I think Williams will struggle to hold his spot largely based on the likely match-ups
Playing Duryea would be a bit of a risk without a game at Footscray

[Rocket Science]

He has played the last two VFL games, but hasn't set the world on fire.

Why do I feel like this statement is a perfect summary of about 95% of Jongy's career?

I almost forgot he was still on the list.

[The Adelaide Connection]

Why do I feel like this statement is a perfect summary of about 95% of Jongy's career?

I almost forgot he was still on the list.

He is the sort of player that I think we just hold onto forever because I am scared of what will happen if Collingwood get him for pick 75.

[Mofra]

How far is Jong off? He's versatile and can run with or play a defensive forward role.
With all due respect to Jong, if he's the difference between us winning or losing we're in trouble.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

With all due respect to Jong, if he's the difference between us winning or losing we're in trouble.
With all due respect to Mofra if Jong is the difference between us winning or losing we're blessed.
Anytime we find that difference problem solved.

[1eyedog]

With all due respect to Jong, if he's the difference between us winning or losing we're in trouble.

I was just asking where he was at fitness / injury wise. I think his versatility may help out in the roles I stated previously. He's by no means the difference.

[divvydan]

Crozier, Dickson in for Gowers (ankle) and La. Young

[Rocket Science]

Good lord, sensible changes, what's come over the match committee?

Remain curious as to how we'll combat their ability to load up on talls up forward.

Let me guess, win the midfield battle?

[G-Mo77]

Tipped against us this week. The team is a lot better balanced than the last time we played them but I've seen nothing lately to fill me with any confidence at all. The selections aren't really that exciting either and again doesn't give me any confidence. Hope I'm wrong and I might be but I expect to see the usual vanilla boring Bulldogs Saturday night.

[Grantysghost]

Not sure if this has been mentioned, last three games odd pattern where we have conceded 7 behinds in each game. Can we improve our powers of distraction on the mark or what?! Need to stop the clean entries I assume be part of it.

v Cats - 21.7
v Norf - 18.7
v WCE - 21.7

------

Total - 60.21

[Twodogs]

Lin Jong taking some time out due to mental health issues. May be out for 3-4 weeks.

[soupman]

Not sure if this has been mentioned, last three games odd pattern where we have conceded 7 behinds in each game. Can we improve our powers of distraction on the mark or what?! Need to stop the clean entries I assume be part of it.

v Cats - 21.7
v Norf - 18.7
v WCE - 21.7

------

Total - 60.21
We could start by making sure Caleb Daniel isnt on the mark. I reckon he takes it 80% of the time, even when English is standing 10 metres away. So idiotic.

[Grantysghost]

We could start by making sure Caleb Daniel isnt on the mark. I reckon he takes it 80% of the time, even when English is standing 10 metres away. So idiotic.

He should never be on the mark, it really makes a difference in my opinion and experience if someone tall is on there. Be an interesting stat actually if you could ever find it. We need a designated person on the mark! Under 6 ft 3 you're out.

[Mantis]

#inbevowetrust

Bad feelings about this one.

[Danjul]

#inbevowetrust

Bad feelings about this one.

Difficult to believe that less than 3 years after a premiership supporters are worried about playing the bottom team.

[Jeanette54]

We could start by making sure Caleb Daniel isnt on the mark. I reckon he takes it 80% of the time, even when English is standing 10 metres away. So idiotic.

I admit Caleb standing the mark isn't the greatest idea, but I know I would rather have Tim English somewhere around where the ball is going to land.

[MrMahatma]

Difficult to believe that less than 3 years after a premiership supporters are worried about playing the bottom team.

That should be the banner on the weekend.

It’s true. It sucks. And it’s real.

[bornadog]

Still think we needed one more tall. Lew Young would have been handy

[bornadog]

Difficult to believe that less than 3 years after a premiership supporters are worried about playing the bottom team.

I know some people hate me to mention this, but I think it is interesting. We are fielding a younger team than Carlton in experience and and slightly younger in age.

Not an an excuse, just fact.

[MrMahatma]

I know some people hate me to mention this, but I think it is interesting. We are fielding a younger team than Carlton in experience and and slightly younger in age.

Not an an excuse, just fact.

Are you highlighting our poor list management?

[bornadog]

Are you highlighting our poor list management?

Not at all. We had experienced players leave for one reason or another and tried to compensate by bringing in Lloyd, Duryea etc. Just goes to show we are still developing and shouldn't expect miracles.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Yes this is good thinking
Good call. Maybe whisper in his ear as he is about to run out on the ground that Cripps is the sort of player he should be modelling himself on so pay attention to the little things he does because currently that is the difference between Jack Macrae and the best players in the competition (in that the better players kick goals, try and take overhead marks and dont wander around the field with their hands on their hips.) Put it on Jack that he is a better player than his output at the moment suggests and we shouldn't really be using him to tag the opposition gun but that's where we are at the moment.

[Dancin' Douggy]

It is a pet hate of mine. It’s simple science.
We could start by making sure Caleb Daniel isnt on the mark. I reckon he takes it 80% of the time, even when English is standing 10 metres away. So idiotic.

[GVGjr]

Not at all. We had experienced players leave for one reason or another and tried to compensate by bringing in Lloyd, Duryea etc. Just goes to show we are still developing and shouldn't expect miracles.

In most weeks we have the opportunity to select more experienced sides and often choose not to so it doesn't quite cover it in my opinion.
Age and experience aside, it's about effort and that will get you over the line more times than not.

From a list management perspective we are at times all too quick with jettisoning players for untried youngsters

[Rocket Science]

In most weeks we have the opportunity to select more experienced sides and often choose not to so it doesn't quite cover it in my opinion.
Age and experience aside, it's about effort and that will get you over the line more times than not.

From a list management perspective we are at times all too quick with jettisoning players for untried youngsters

Can't manage or develop them?

No problem. Ship em out!

[Twodogs]

In most weeks we have the opportunity to select more experienced sides and often choose not to so it doesn't quite cover it in my opinion.
Age and experience aside, it's about effort and that will get you over the line more times than not.

From a list management perspective we are at times all too quick with jettisoning players for untried youngsters

Yep. We are a ''grass is always greener'' type club.

[mjp]

From a list management perspective we are at times all too quick with jettisoning players for untried youngsters

That's fine but I almost feel the OPPOSITE when it comes to our recent list management - that we keep players on the list/drop them to the rookie list when it seems pretty clear that they aren't ever going to make it.

Who are you thinking of who falls into the 'jettisoned too quickly' category??

[Danjul]

Not at all. We had experienced players leave for one reason or another and tried to compensate by bringing in Lloyd, Duryea etc. Just goes to show we are still developing and shouldn't expect miracles.

l can see that Lloyd replaced Dahl. Who replaced Redpath, Roughead, Adams, Campbell , Boyd , (Morris) .... No big bodied talls have been brought in and that’s hurting the team.

[bornadog]

l can see that Lloyd replaced Dahl. Who replaced Redpath, Roughead, Adams, Campbell , Boyd , (Morris) .... No big bodied talls have been brought in and that’s hurting the team.

To be fair, Boyd was unknown.

Campbell replaced by Sweet, Redpath by Schache, and the rest we have to wait for Naughton, Young, Cordy, English to mature.

[GVGjr]

That's fine but I almost feel the OPPOSITE when it comes to our recent list management - that we keep players on the list/drop them to the rookie list when it seems pretty clear that they aren't ever going to make it.

Who are you thinking of who falls into the 'jettisoned too quickly' category??

We will hang onto players like Mulligan, Prudden and Roarke Smith etc for a couple of years longer than they should largely based on potential but have proven performers like Roberts in the gun to be moved on.
Granted it's a fine line but I have no problems keeping a player like Roberts on to add depth in a key position and leadership because he's proven to be a more than decent player.

[bornadog]

In most weeks we have the opportunity to select more experienced sides and often choose not to so it doesn't quite cover it in my opinion.

If the more experienced guys are up to it and have the form, I am sure they will be promoted. Any examples of experienced players that should have been playing and haven't been picked? I can't think of any.

Here are the players with 50 games plus:



Name
Games


Morris, Dale
252


Picken, Liam
198


Trengove, Jackson
175


Suckling, Matthew
160


Wood, Easton
148


Wallis, Mitchell
133






Macrae, Jackson
129


Liberatore, Thomas
128


Duryea, Taylor
122


Hunter, Lachlan
116


Bontempelli, Marcus
115


Johannisen, Jason
114


Dickson, Tory
103


Crozier, Hayden
96


Daniel, Caleb
85






McLean, Toby
71






Lloyd, Sam
68






Boyd, Thomas
61






Jong, Lin
61






Cordy, Zaine
59


Dunkley, Josh
54






Roberts, Fletcher
51



Dickson has been out of form, but now comes back in after kickimng a few, Jong has been injured, Fletch had two games and he is just not up to it and Duryea has been injured.

[mjp]

We will hang onto players like Mulligan, Prudden and Roarke Smith etc for a couple of years longer than they should largely based on potential but have proven performers like Roberts in the gun to be moved on.
Granted it's a fine line but I have no problems keeping a player like Roberts on to add depth in a key position and leadership because he's proven to be a more than decent player.

Yeah - that's fair enough. It is the Prudden's and Smith's (and the list goes on) who I was thinking of when saying we keep players too long...

I get what you mean with Roberts. I just think he helped us when he was playing and I'm pretty sure a couple of our more positive games were with him in the side...

I know that HE might have been beaten by Hawkins vs Geelong, but we were OK that night and the role played by Roberts helped the rest of the backs settle vs their opponents...he also acts as the anchor (which I dont think the coaches like as we don't really play that 'style') and that seems to give us a bit more of a point to rotate off/limit the desperate scrambling charge to 'get back' - often led by Caleb Daniel - that has been so ridiculed in the media and by supporters.

And I guess ultimately that's the problem. We don't know what the MC are asking the players to do...so when they do things that 'we' like, we applaud...without ever asking if those things fit into the 'plan' ('cos we all think what we like is 'RIGHT').

[Danjul]

I get what you mean with Roberts. I just think he helped us when he was playing and I'm pretty sure a couple of our more positive games were with him in the side...

I know that HE might have been beaten by Hawkins vs Geelong, but we were OK that night and the role played by Roberts helped the rest of the backs settle vs their opponents...he also acts as the anchor (which I dont think the coaches like as we don't really play that 'style') and that seems to give us a bit more of a point to rotate off/limit the desperate scrambling charge to 'get back' - often led by Caleb Daniel - that has been so ridiculed in the media and by supporters.

And I guess ultimately that's the problem. We don't know what the MC are asking the players to do...so when they do things that 'we' like, we applaud...without ever asking if those things fit into the 'plan' ('cos we all think what we like is 'RIGHT').

I agree.

Hawkins is a champion who could probably walk into any Bulldog team in history.

He kicked 4 goals in each of his last five games. Roberts was criticised and dropped when it happened to him at Geelong , did the other four clubs respond the same way?

Anyone who didn’t expect Hawkins to get at least 4 goals against a bottom team doesn’t know much about football. He got 4 in both games against our much stronger team in our premiership year.

Only the Dog’s don’t pay opposition teams the respect they deserve at the selection table. And as a result they can’t assess their own player’s performance adequately.

By the way, Hawkins lowest possession count this year was against Roberts. And it was his fourth lowest in the last 3 years.

[bornadog]

By the way, Hawkins lowest possession count this year was against Roberts. And it was his fourth lowest in the last 3 years.

It was only a couple of disposals, hardly worth mentioning.

[Danjul]

It was only a couple of disposals, hardly worth mentioning.

Certainly worth mentioning because there is no other apparent yardstick for measuring success at the club.

Cordy can get smashed week after week and that’s success. English can get smashed and that is success.

Both of these will be long term great players but both have cost wins.

None of the supporters have any idea of what is expected from the game plan and they certainly are not interpreting what they are getting as success.

[GVGjr]

Yeah - that's fair enough. It is the Prudden's and Smith's (and the list goes on) who I was thinking of when saying we keep players too long...

I get what you mean with Roberts. I just think he helped us when he was playing and I'm pretty sure a couple of our more positive games were with him in the side...

I know that HE might have been beaten by Hawkins vs Geelong, but we were OK that night and the role played by Roberts helped the rest of the backs settle vs their opponents...he also acts as the anchor (which I dont think the coaches like as we don't really play that 'style') and that seems to give us a bit more of a point to rotate off/limit the desperate scrambling charge to 'get back' - often led by Caleb Daniel - that has been so ridiculed in the media and by supporters.

And I guess ultimately that's the problem. We don't know what the MC are asking the players to do...so when they do things that 'we' like, we applaud...without ever asking if those things fit into the 'plan' ('cos we all think what we like is 'RIGHT').

Thanks MJP, good read

My final take on things:

A few years back we added a player with over 200 games experience who was also regarded as a leader (a former captain mind you) as a rookie listed player for us and we did this because of doubts on some other players with injuries. The risk was low, the outlay bugger all but before he even played a game it was highly criticised because "he was too old" and "we need to give the youngsters a go"
I'll be the first to admit that it didn't quite work out but it highlights to me we could be adding an experienced player or two to cover injuries and or the lack of experience rather than saying because the likes of Morris isn't available we've got a young and inexperienced list. If the list is young and inexperienced then it's clearly by design.

Collingwood finished runner up last year and took a chance on Roughead via a low key trade and so far they'd be pretty happy with the outcome. They wanted some depth, experience, probably some versatility and a good leader and it's working so far

We struggled over the last two years with our on-field performances and at the end of the 2018 season cleared the decks with Dahlhaus, Biggs, Redpath, Smith, Roughead and Campbell etc. On top of that we had two experienced players with large question marks on their actual availability for 2019 in both Boyd and Picken and just for good measure also knowing that Morris has struggled to get through seasons playing less than half the games in the 2017/18 seasons and yet we added just Duryea and Lloyd to the list with genuine AFL experience.
This is why I often question the relevance of saying we are a young and inexperienced side because it's clearly by choice.
Getting slightly more mature players from the State leagues might slightly fast track the age gap side of things a bit but it hasn't quite worked so far. It actually smacks of being half in or half out

If we are rebuilding/refreshing/revamping, re-anything for that matter then fine but I don't see the development of the 3rd and 4th year players that we should be seeing if we are actually going down that road.

If we've made a mistake then lets own up and get on with it but I don't easily accept the age and inexperience observation or excuse.

Tomorrow night is about the effort the players display and how the coaches handle the match-ups and for what it's worth I really like our chances.
Win, lose or draw the age and experience angle won't be a valid consideration for me.

[Bulldog4life]

Yeah - that's fair enough. It is the Prudden's and Smith's (and the list goes on) who I was thinking of when saying we keep players too long...

I get what you mean with Roberts. I just think he helped us when he was playing and I'm pretty sure a couple of our more positive games were with him in the side...

I know that HE might have been beaten by Hawkins vs Geelong, but we were OK that night and the role played by Roberts helped the rest of the backs settle vs their opponents...he also acts as the anchor (which I dont think the coaches like as we don't really play that 'style') and that seems to give us a bit more of a point to rotate off/limit the desperate scrambling charge to 'get back' - often led by Caleb Daniel - that has been so ridiculed in the media and by supporters.

And I guess ultimately that's the problem. We don't know what the MC are asking the players to do...so when they do things that 'we' like, we applaud...without ever asking if those things fit into the 'plan' ('cos we all think what we like is 'RIGHT').

Great point MJP.