Who is not in the Hall of Fame that should be?

[westdog54]

Reading the Brad Hardie thread the other day, the inevitable discussion came up about Hall of Fame inductees, specifically who should and should not be there.

In that spirit, I want posters' nominations as to who should be in there already.

The criteria are as follows:


The Australian Football Hall of Fame seeks to recognise and enshrine players, coaches, umpires, administrators and media representatives who have made significant contributions to Australian Football – at any level – since the game’s inception in 1858.

The committee considers candidates on the basis of record, ability, integrity, sportsmanship and character. The number of games played, coached or umpired or years of service is a consideration only and does not determine eligibility.

Players are eligible only after they have been retired from the game for at least three years. Coaches, umpires, administrators and media representatives are eligible only after retirement.

Twodogs quite rightly put up Kelvin Templeton. His accomplishments as a player and administrator should certainly be considered a 'significant contribution'.

I'm going to put up a name that very few would have heard. He's got nothing to do with our club, in fact, half of his playing career was in the old VFA.

William 'Bill' Proudfoot was part of Collingwood's inargural VFA team and played for its predecessor, the Brittania Club. His career with Collingwood spanned 15 years.

A solidly built full back, Proudfoot captained the club for three seasons and played in the club's first two VFL premierships, in 1902 and 1903.

A Police Officer, Proudfoot was prohibited from playing football by the Chief Commissioner of the day. He continued playing, however, under the surname 'Wilson'.

'Plod' was involved in an infamous incident in the VFA in 1896 against North Melbourne when a hostile Arden Street crowd turned on umpire Roberts at half time and a riot ensued. Proudfoot put himself in harms way to protect Roberts, and in turn was badly injured himself.

All up, Proudfoot would play 187 games for Collingwood between 1892 and 1906, kicking a solitary goal throughout his career.

Away from Football, Proudfoot was awarded a Bronze Medal in 1919 from the Royal Humane Society. He risked his life to stop two runaway horses, and forced them away from a tram car fully loaded with passengers.

He is currently a member of the Collingwood Hall of Fame and the Victoria Police Amateur Sports and Welfare Society Hall of Fame, alongside names such as Allan Jeans, Rex Hunt and Jack Dyer

[bulldogtragic]

If Gary Ablett Snr isn't in, then GAS. I'd prefer not to get into the issues outside of footy which are serious. Although as an aside, I met him once doing booze bus duties. He seemed nice, and he immediately asked if I needed to go through his car and if he needed pop the boot. Which is curious (perhaps used to that happening), but he seemed nice and was zero. But for footy awards/recognition then he deserves in.

But I don't think it will happen until they put GAJ in. He will give cover for GAS and be the first father/son inducted at the same time so there will be less media scrutiny on the outside of footy issues.

[westdog54]

GAS was inducted in 2005.

[bornadog]

GAS was inducted in 2005.

Should be a legend.

[bornadog]

Surely Nicky Winmar should be in.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/image/8576460-3x2-940x627.jpg

[bulldogtragic]

GAS was inducted in 2005.

Ah, so it’s Legend status he’s been held from I take it from BAD.

[Mofra]

Jack Collins

56 Premiership player, VFL leading goal kicker 54 and 57 (was the Coleman Medal in 57), first player to kick 7 goals in a Grand Final, twice B&F for Footscray, 5 x Footscray leading goal kicker.

Later served as the secretary then president of Footscray so served the game after his playing career ended.

[Twodogs]

Reading the Brad Hardie thread the other day, the inevitable discussion came up about Hall of Fame inductees, specifically who should and should not be there.

In that spirit, I want posters' nominations as to who should be in there already.

The criteria are as follows:



Twodogs quite rightly put up Kelvin Templeton. His accomplishments as a player and administrator should certainly be considered a 'significant contribution'.

I'm going to put up a name that very few would have heard. He's got nothing to do with our club, in fact, half of his playing career was in the old VFA.

William 'Bill' Proudfoot was part of Collingwood's inargural VFA team and played for its predecessor, the Brittania Club. His career with Collingwood spanned 15 years.

A solidly built full back, Proudfoot captained the club for three seasons and played in the club's first two VFL premierships, in 1902 and 1903.

A Police Officer, Proudfoot was prohibited from playing football by the Chief Commissioner of the day. He continued playing, however, under the surname 'Wilson'.

'Plod' was involved in an infamous incident in the VFA in 1896 against North Melbourne when a hostile Arden Street crowd turned on umpire Roberts at half time and a riot ensued. Proudfoot put himself in harms way to protect Roberts, and in turn was badly injured himself.

All up, Proudfoot would play 187 games for Collingwood between 1892 and 1906, kicking a solitary goal throughout his career.

Away from Football, Proudfoot was awarded a Bronze Medal in 1919 from the Royal Humane Society. He risked his life to stop two runaway horses, and forced them away from a tram car fully loaded with passengers.

He is currently a member of the Collingwood Hall of Fame and the Victoria Police Amateur Sports and Welfare Society Hall of Fame, alongside names such as Allan Jeans, Rex Hunt and Jack Dyer

Proudfoot is a ripper nomination. I love the story about the Chief Constable banning serving police officers from playing league football so Bill promptly changes his surname and carries on playing.

He lived in Werribee for the last 20 years of his life.

[Bulldog Joe]

Twodogs quite rightly put up Kelvin Templeton. His accomplishments as a player and administrator should certainly be considered a 'significant contribution'.



How is it possible that Brad Hardie is now in the Hall of Fame, but Kelvin Templeton is not.

Templeton was a better player. The first Key Position forward to win a Brownlow Medal and also the youngest player to kick 100 goals in a season.

Templeton also contributed as an administrator.

Comparably Hardie retired to sniping from the sidelines.

[Remi Moses]

What Bulldog Joe said
I can’t take it seriously until Templeton is in
Absolute disgrace

[bornadog]

Templeton was a better player. The first Key Position forward to win a Brownlow Medal and also the youngest player to kick 100 goals in a season.

I thought Longmire was the youngest?

[Hotdog60]

Tony Liberatore
Morrish Medal: 1984
2× Gardiner Medal: 1986, 1988
Brownlow Medal: 1990
Average tackles of 4.39 per game
Liberatore played a total of 283 senior games for Footscray/Western Bulldogs in a career that included 13 finals

[bulldogtragic]

Tony Liberatore
Morrish Medal: 1984
2× Gardiner Medal: 1986, 1988
Brownlow Medal: 1990
Average of 4.39 per game
Liberatore played a total of 283 senior games for Footscray/Western Bulldogs in a career that included 13 finals

Helped make a son (1991) to help win a premiership for the Western Bulldogs: 2016

[Axe Man]

I thought Longmire was the youngest?

Never kicked 100, kicked 98 as a 19 year old though.

Perhaps Templeton was the youngest to kick 100 at the time because I think Lockett and Franklin were both slightly younger when they kicked theirs.

[Twodogs]

Never kicked 100, kicked 98 as a 19 year old though.

Perhaps Templeton was the youngest to kick 100 at the time because I think Lockett and Franklin were both slightly younger when they kicked theirs.

I looked up the ages. Templeton was the youngest at the time at 21 years and 316 days, Buddy was 21/207 the day he kicked his first century and Plugger was 21/152 days when he kicked his first century so that leaves Lockett as the current youngest century goalkicker.

[Bulldog Joe]

I thought Longmire was the youngest?

Longmire won the Coleman, but his best goal tally was 98.
He is the youngest Coleman Medal winner,

[bornadog]

Longmire won the Coleman, but his best goal tally was 98.
He is the youngest Coleman Medal winner,

Argh, thanks.

[Twodogs]

Yesterday in the Herald Sun there was a team of players who's career was ended or limited because they had done a knee. And guess who wasn't in the team. Not at Full Forward but Coleman was selected there so no complaints about that. However was KT at CHF, where he became the first forward to win the Brownlow, no of course he wasn't. David Neitz was. I'd forgotten all about the fifteen Coleman and the twenty five Brownlow medals that Neitz had won.

What's that you say Skip? David Neitz didn't win any medals? Neeter wasn't fit to tie Kelvin Templeton's boots? Yeah I have to agree with you there, it is an insult to Templeton that Neitz gets selected ahead of him and typical of the media to overlook him again.

[westdog54]

Yesterday in the Herald Sun there was a team of players who's career was ended or limited because they had done a knee. And guess who wasn't in the team. Not at Full Forward but Coleman was selected there so no complaints about that. However was KT at CHF, where he became the first forward to win the Brownlow, no of course he wasn't. David Neitz was. I'd forgotten all about the fifteen Coleman and the twenty five Brownlow medals that Neitz had won.

What's that you say Skip? David Neitz didn't win any medals? Neeter wasn't fit to tie Kelvin Templeton's boots? Yeah I have to agree with you there, it is an insult to Templeton that Neitz gets selected ahead of him and typical of the media to overlook him again.

That is absolutely *!*!*!*!ing astounding.

[Twodogs]

That is absolutely *!*!*!*!ing astounding.

It's the casual ignorance that shits me. These people aren't even in a place where they understand just how *!*!*!*!ing wrong they are. It's rude apart from anything else-do your research instead of making reaches like that.


It's annoying that we aren't even in a position to understand that KT should be in the HOF AT THE VERY LEAST

[westdog54]

It's the casual ignorance that shits me. These people aren't even in a place where they understand just how *!*!*!*!ing wrong they are. It's rude apart from anything else-do your research instead of making reaches like that.


It's annoying that we aren't even in a position to understand that KT should be in the HOF AT THE VERY LEAST

Just out of curiosity, who assembled the team?

[Twodogs]

Just out of curiosity, who assembled the team?

Jon Anderson wrote the accompanying article. It was mainly about Peter Seward the ex-North Melbourne player who did his knee back in the grim days when it usually meant career over. So either Jon Anderson or the work experience kid.

[westdog54]

Surely someone of Jon Anderson's experience doesn't overlook Kelvin *!*!*!*!ing Templeton.

[Twodogs]

Surely someone of Jon Anderson's experience doesn't overlook Kelvin *!*!*!*!ing Templeton.

Yep, that's why I think the work experience kid got to pick the team. You think that Anderson would have at least give it the once over though. just on the off chance that you may have, oh I don't know ACCIDENTALLY LEFT OUT A DUAL COLEMAN/BROWNLOW MEDALLIST!!!!!!!


FFS... :rolleyes:

[Axe Man]

Yesterday in the Herald Sun there was a team of players who's career was ended or limited because they had done a knee. And guess who wasn't in the team. Not at Full Forward but Coleman was selected there so no complaints about that. However was KT at CHF, where he became the first forward to win the Brownlow, no of course he wasn't. David Neitz was. I'd forgotten all about the fifteen Coleman and the twenty five Brownlow medals that Neitz had won.

What's that you say Skip? David Neitz didn't win any medals? Neeter wasn't fit to tie Kelvin Templeton's boots? Yeah I have to agree with you there, it is an insult to Templeton that Neitz gets selected ahead of him and typical of the media to overlook him again.

The team is just ACL victims, not players who's careers ended or were limited. Did Templeton do an ACL or was it something else? I can't find the answer.

A CHAMPION TEAM OF ACL VICTIMS
B: Mark Thompson, Alex Rance, Peter Steward

HB: Neale Daniher, Glen Jakovich, Robert Murphy

C: Doug Hawkins, Keith Greig, Michael Turner

HF: Sam Kekovich, David Schwarz, Robert Harvey

F: Peter Daicos, Peter Hudson, Jason Dunstall

R: Paul Salmon, Tim Watson, Tony Liberatore

[Twodogs]

The team is just ACL victims, not players who's careers ended or were limited. Did Templeton do an ACL or was it something else? I can't find the answer.

A CHAMPION TEAM OF ACL VICTIMS
B: Mark Thompson, Alex Rance, Peter Steward

HB: Neale Daniher, Glen Jakovich, Robert Murphy

C: Doug Hawkins, Keith Greig, Michael Turner

HF: Sam Kekovich, David Schwarz, Robert Harvey

F: Peter Daicos, Peter Hudson, Jason Dunstall

R: Paul Salmon, Tim Watson, Tony Liberatore

KT sure did do an ACL. He did it at at the age of 22 in a preseason game when a Melbourne player fell on him in his very first game after winning the Brownlow the year before. Although he played a few games after he was never the same again and just hobbled around on one leg. With all due respect if our own supporters don't remember or stand up for our own and lionise the champions of our club then I despair for the future of our club, I really do. To paraphrase if we forget about the past then our future is up the spout too.


Anyway, why would we constantly bang on about how good he was if he wasn't any good (or at least better than Neitz?) The fact of the matter is there are much worse players in the HOF (and even in the Legends) than Kelvin Templeton. They don't just hand out Coleman and Brownlow medals and KT had 3 of them by the age of 22 when his career was effectively over.

[Axe Man]

KT sure did do an ACL. He did it at at the age of 22 in a preseason game when a Melbourne player fell on him in his very first game after winning the Brownlow the year before. Although he played a few games after he was never the same again and just hobbled around on one leg. With all due respect if our own supporters don't remember or stand up for our own and lionise the champions of our club then I despair for the future of our club, I really do. To paraphrase if we forget about the past then our future is up the spout too.


Anyway, why would we constantly bang on about how good he was if he wasn't any good (or at least better than Neitz?) The fact of the matter is there are much worse players in the HOF (and even in the Legends) than Kelvin Templeton. They don't just hand out Coleman and Brownlow medals and KT had 3 of them by the age of 22 when his career was effectively over.

I never saw Templeton play so can only really go by what was been written and clearly he was a champion until he did his knee.

Not disagreeing with the Hall of Fame thing at all. Just seeking to clarify if he did an ACL because all I can find is that he did a serious knee injury in the pre season comp in 1981. He played in round 17 that year so if it was an ACL it was a very quick comeback.

[bornadog]

KT sure did do an ACL. He did it at at the age of 22 in a preseason game when a Melbourne player fell on him in his very first game after winning the Brownlow the year before. Although he played a few games after he was never the same again and just hobbled around on one leg. With all due respect if our own supporters don't remember or stand up for our own and lionise the champions of our club then I despair for the future of our club, I really do. To paraphrase if we forget about the past then our future is up the spout too.


Anyway, why would we constantly bang on about how good he was if he wasn't any good (or at least better than Neitz?) The fact of the matter is there are much worse players in the HOF (and even in the Legends) than Kelvin Templeton. They don't just hand out Coleman and Brownlow medals and KT had 3 of them by the age of 22 when his career was effectively over.

Pretty sure he did his knee with minutes to go in the preseason cup match.

[bornadog]

I never saw Templeton play so can only really go by what was been written and clearly he was a champion until he did his knee.

Not disagreeing with the Hall of Fame thing at all. Just seeking to clarify if he did an ACL because all I can find is that he did a serious knee injury in the pre season comp in 1981. He played in round 17 that year so if it was an ACL it was a very quick comeback.

You have probably seen this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=383PM8xwR0g

[bornadog]

I just watched that clip again, what amazing scenes, especially at the end when the kids run on the ground. and the siren hasn't even gone off. Even the coach is on the ground.

I was there that day and it was incredible.

[Axe Man]

You have probably seen this:

Yeah of course but I'm not sure it's the greatest showcase of his talents. A few marks on the lead, multiple free kicks received and a dubious mark paid!

[bornadog]

Yeah of course but I'm not sure it's the greatest showcase of his talents. A few marks on the lead, multiple free kicks received and a dubious mark paid!

I know, but 15.9 tells you something.

Plus he kicked over 100 goals in a season at a young age.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Templeton franked my becoming a rusted on Dog's supporter. I had a family lineage through my Mum; her growing up in Brooklyn and going to the 1954 GF that meant my early life was filled with Footscray stories.
But as a 5,6 and 7 yr old, it was KT's exploits that provided me with a hero to follow.
My first actual game of footy was in 84 at Waverley watching Melbourne kill us by 78 points with my idol KT hobbling around for them. I had very mixed emotions about that game; was excited about seeing us play for the first time, but felt sick at the result and seeing KT on the 'other' team...not to mention Brian Wilson.

KT was a genuine star and has to be in the Hall of Fame for it to be a meaningful award.

[Twodogs]

I never saw Templeton play so can only really go by what was been written and clearly he was a champion until he did his knee.

Not disagreeing with the Hall of Fame thing at all. Just seeking to clarify if he did an ACL because all I can find is that he did a serious knee injury in the pre season comp in 1981. He played in round 17 that year so if it was an ACL it was a very quick comeback.

Fair enough, I tend to get a bit gung-ho when it comes to KT. The Colemans and the Brownlow (that he won playing in some shocking teams) alone should be enough for entry to the HOF at least. Then when you take a deep dive into his figures they only improve his case.

Take 1978 for instance. He kicks 118.65 out of a team total of 333.227 in 21 games at the age of 21. in 1979 it's 91.62 out of 289.248. 1980 in addition to playing centre half forward and winning the Brownlow he still kicks 75.33 out of a team total of 301.214. In 78/79 when he played exclusively at full forward he scored a total of 34.09 % of all our goals and averaged nealy 5 goals a game. Then in year 3 he plays in a different position and wins the Brownlow. He also kicked 82.39 out of 299.242 (27.42%) in 1976 as a 19 yo!

Could you imagine what we would be saying if we had a 19 yo kid who kicked 75 goals in 2015, had his next year ruined by injury (obviously then we'd be saying that's typical) but bounced back with 118 goals in 2017 as a 21 yo, followed up with 91 and another Coleman in 2018 and then won a Brownlow as well as kicking 75 goals from CHF this year? We'd be saying "Wayne Carey who?" We certainly shouldn't be laid back and comfortable with David Neitz getting picked in any teams KT qualifies for ahead of him. To me it says that if we are overlooking him for teams like that then Kelvin is a long way back in discussions for a spot in the HOF and frankly the fact that KT isn't in the HOF is a scandal.

So 82 goals in 1976 at the age of 19. 1977 was a year ruined by injury and illness so we can ignore that, although his 40 goals in 9 games (4.44) won the club goalkicking. 118 goals in 1978 wins the Coleman. 91 goals in 19 games in 1979 wins another Coleman and then in his last season at full fitness he kicks 75 goals from CHF and wins the Brownlow.

As a comparison John Coleman's 2 best years were his first 2 1949 and 1950. Even though they were his first 2 years he was still a year older than KT who was 17 on his debut in 1974. For his best years for goalkicking Coleman was 20/21 and in Templeton's best years for goalkicking he was 19/20 and both had birthdays after the season ended. Anyway in 49/50 Coleman kicks 220 goals in 40 games at an average at 5.5 while in 78/79 KT kicks 209 goals in 43 games (4.86) but Coleman played in a premiership team and a runners up while Kelvin;s teams finished 11th and 9th (in a 12 team comp.) Coleman's teams won 33 games and lost 7 in 48/49 while Footscray went 14 and 30 in 78/79.

That's a four year body of work (not including 1977) that it would be hard to find another other player in the history of the comp bettering. Even with the injured year of 1977 in he still has 406 goals over that five years period (where he played injured one year and played at CHF in another) at a very respectable average of 4.18.

Anyway that's his playing career. Would you like me to outline all of his achievements as the CEO of the Sydney Swans? The fact that he did more to make sure the Swans were on a solid financial footing when they were facing oblivion and the appointment of Barassi as coach? Not to mention the fact that as a footballer administrator the cache he would have bought to them as a Coleman/Brownlow medalist and the doors that would have opened for them must have been invaluable.


As an addendum. When he did his knee and virtually ended his career Kelvin Templeton was roughly the same age as Marcus Bontempelli is now. Could you imagine the fuss we would make of Marcus if he had won a brownlow and two Colemans by now-we'd be calling him the GOAT and not many could argue with that claim. Marcus is 2 cms taller than KT is and would have played almost exclusively as a tall forward in the 70s/80s.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

John Schultz is another Bulldog great worthy of HOF recognition. A Legend of our Club, Schultz won the Brownlow Medal in 1960 and won 5 only Club B and F’s. He is one of only two League players to be a State Representative in the first 10 years of his League career.
For 25 years he served on the League’s Tribunal in an outstanding contribution to our great game. Schultz also had the honour of presenting the Premiership Cup in 2016. John would be a worthy addition as Hall of Famer, given his excellent service.

[Twodogs]

John Schultz is another Bulldog great worthy of HOF recognition. A Legend of our Club, Schultz won the Brownlow Medal in 1960 and won 5 only Club B and F’s. He is one of only two League players to be a State Representative in the first 10 years of his League career.
For 25 years he served on the League’s Tribunal in an outstanding contribution to our great game. Schultz also had the honour of presenting the Premiership Cup in 2016. John would be a worthy addition as Hall of Famer, given his excellent service.

Absolutely. But


He is one of only two League players to be a State Representative in the first 10 years of his League career.

Do you mean the first 10 games? Because ten years is a long time to wait for a big V.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Absolutely. But



Do you mean the first 10 games? Because ten years is a long time to wait for a big V.

I meant that there were 2 players in Fred Flanagan who Captained Geelong to its 1951/2 Premiership wins and John Schultz who represented Victoria in State football each year for the first 10 years of their League careers. A mighty achievement

[bornadog]

I meant that there were 2 players in Fred Flanagan who Captained Geelong to its 1951/2 Premiership wins and John Schultz who represented Victoria in State football each year for the first 10 years of their League careers. A mighty achievement

Schultz was a brilliant ruckman, but like every other Bulldog underrated.

[Twodogs]

I meant that there were 2 players in Fred Flanagan who Captained Geelong to its 1951/2 Premiership wins and John Schultz who represented Victoria in State football each year for the first 10 years of their League careers. A mighty achievement

Yep, Gotcha.

[Twodogs]

BTW for anyone who is interested in reading a much better reasoned and more articulate argument as to why Kelvin Templeton should be in the HOF this was written by a good mate of mine for the Australian Football website.

https://australianfootball.com/articles/view/A%2BHall%2Bof%2BFame%2Boversight/2003


Even if you aren't interested in reading about KT, the website is a really good read and has many excellent articles about footy from all over Australia (it's not V/AFL dominated) and from right through the history of the game. I thoroughly recommend it.

[Bulldog4life]

I just watched that clip again, what amazing scenes, especially at the end when the kids run on the ground. and the siren hasn't even gone off. Even the coach is on the ground.

I was there that day and it was incredible.

It was incredible. Trevor Barker was standing Kelvin for a lot of those goals too which is no mean feat.

[Bulldog4life]

John Schultz is another Bulldog great worthy of HOF recognition. A Legend of our Club, Schultz won the Brownlow Medal in 1960 and won 5 only Club B and F’s. He is one of only two League players to be a State Representative in the first 10 years of his League career.
For 25 years he served on the League’s Tribunal in an outstanding contribution to our great game. Schultz also had the honour of presenting the Premiership Cup in 2016. John would be a worthy addition as Hall of Famer, given his excellent service.

Agree entirely NBP. I thought he was actually in it. Definitely worthy. I never saw him play a bad game.

[Twodogs]

It was incredible. Trevor Barker was standing Kelvin for a lot of those goals too which is no mean feat.

Actually KT was standing on Trevor Barker's head for a lot of that time.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Agree entirely NBP. I thought he was actually in it. Definitely worthy. I never saw him play a bad game.
You are correct. I was confused between HOF and Legend status

[strebla]

I was also at that game in 84 didn't a hobbling KT kick 8 goals ??

[Twodogs]

I was also at that game in 84 didn't a hobbling KT kick 8 goals ??

I remember that, he was playing for Melbourne and kicks 8 against us even though he was just hobbling around in the goal square. He kicked 3 bags of 8 for Melbourne even though he could barely run most of the time and could barely walk the rest of the time. He kicks 51 goals in 16 games in 1985.


some figures from the article I posted the URL for;



-The first key forward to claim the Charles Brownlow Medal (1980).
-Two club best and fairest awards (1978 and 1980).
-Back-to-back leading goalkicker awards in the VFL (1978 and 1979).
-First player in VFL history to have separate 100-goal (1978) and Brownlow Medal (1980) seasons.
-First player from his club to top a century of goals in one season.
-Led his club goal kicking tally for five consecutive seasons (1976-1980).
-Gained interstate selection with Victoria four seasons in a row (1977-1980).
-78-game consecutive goal-scoring streak.


And these just from the disaster that was the 1978 season;



-His 118 goals from 21 appearances is the (equal) 17th highest single season tally in VFL/AFL history.
-He averaged 5.6 goals per game across season.
-Kicked 5 goals or more on 13 occasions.
-Passed Jack Collins’ club record of 84 goals (1954) in Round 14
-His 15 goals against St Kilda on 1 July remains a club record
-His 24 scoring shots (15 goals 9 behinds) remains the most shots taken by one player in a single VFL/AFL match.