WB Game Day V Carlton R13 2019

[hujsh]

My friend took a photo of libber rubbing his eyes , taunting a carlton supporter who had been at them all day, sent it to a few journos, it’s all over the place now.
Libber is one hilarious guy, before we get all PC about it, even the people standing around this bloke wanted to belt him and they weren’t bulldog supporters .

I don't think this is a 'PC vs Anti-PC' thing. (has anyone here even criticized him for it?). He's just called them sooks essentially. The only marginal people who can be offended by that are Carlton supporters and frankly the day we start caring about what Carlton supporters think is the day we need seriously pull our heads in.

[bornadog]

My friend took a photo of libber rubbing his eyes , taunting a carlton supporter who had been at them all day, sent it to a few journos, it’s all over the place now.
Libber is one hilarious guy, before we get all PC about it, even the people standing around this bloke wanted to belt him and they weren’t bulldog supporters .

https://scontent.fmel2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/64324748_2180554668658461_1943444152792383488_o.jpg?_nc_cat= 111&_nc_ht=scontent.fmel2-1.fna&oh=6c4c3ad4ebc2633a0687f4b9d32a6838&oe=5D917038

[G-Mo77]

I am sure you don't mean that mate.

That was a lot of emotion, at that point when I typed that we blew another 5 - 6 goal lead. Deep down of course I don't mean it however right now it's pretty close to the truth. I just can't get over how bad we've become in such a short time, I've gone through different kinds of emotions: 2017 was OK, I was still on a high and thought we'd bounce back, 2018 was miserable, just sadness thinking how far we'd fallen and the opportunity wasted. 2019 is and has pretty much been anger.

I've always enjoyed watching my team regardless of the position on the ladder. Driving down to the footy was a nice escape, a time were I could forget about any issues in my life, forget about work, and just sit back and enjoy watching my team play. It's not like that now, I don't want to make the trips down anymore, it's pretty much half a day for me and I can't justify wasting my time going down there to see most of the players going through the motions out on the field. I force myself to watch when they're on TV, mostly have it on in the background and do something else. I also made the comment that I doubt I'll travel down again this season to watch and I probably won't. Sadly they're losing me as a diehard Bulldog supporter. People will throw flames at me for it and that's fine, I've done it in the past to when I've heard the "I'll cancel my membership" line but that's exactly how I feel right now.

[merantau]

You have to get up and get back on the bike. You have invested too much of your emotional self to walk away now. Imagine how you will feel when we turn the corner and you're not on the bus? A week is a long time in football. We all get down at times. You'll get back up. You'll see. Stay staunch. Do you want to be like Melbourne supporters and go skiing in July/August?

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

That was a lot of emotion, at that point when I typed that we blew another 5 - 6 goal lead. Deep down of course I don't mean it however right now it's pretty close to the truth. I just can't get over how bad we've become in such a short time, I've gone through different kinds of emotions: 2017 was OK, I was still on a high and thought we'd bounce back, 2018 was miserable, just sadness thinking how far we'd fallen and the opportunity wasted. 2019 is and has pretty much been anger.

I've always enjoyed watching my team regardless of the position on the ladder. Driving down to the footy was a nice escape, a time were I could forget about any issues in my life, forget about work, and just sit back and enjoy watching my team play. It's not like that now, I don't want to make the trips down anymore, it's pretty much half a day for me and I can't justify wasting my time going down there to see most of the players going through the motions out on the field. I force myself to watch when they're on TV, mostly have it on in the background and do something else. I also made the comment that I doubt I'll travel down again this season to watch and I probably won't. Sadly they're losing me as a diehard Bulldog supporter. People will throw flames at me for it and that's fine, I've done it in the past to when I've heard the "I'll cancel my membership" line but that's exactly how I feel right now.

I feel your pain and understand your frustrations. After our 2016 flag the past 3 years has seen a dramatic fall away in on field performances. Very few players have taken their game to the next level and many have either left or retired, injured or simply out of form. I do think there needs to be stronger measures taken in our Football department with an urgent review of off field personnel. Dunkley and Daniel have been exceptions and have been two from our Premiership team to take his form to a higher level. English Naughton Crozier Smith Richards and Lipinski have been good recruits but our on field leadership has been a concern. I hope you will hang in there and that improvement will come sooner than later.

[Twodogs]

I feel your pain and understand your frustrations. After our 2016 flag the past 3 years has seen a dramatic fall away in on field performances. Very few players have taken their game to the next level and many have either left or retired, injured or simply out of form. I do think there needs to be stronger measures taken in our Football department with an urgent review of off field personnel. Dunkley and Daniel have been exceptions and have been two from our Premiership team to take his form to a higher level. English Naughton Crozier Smith Richards and Lipinski have been good recruits but our on field leadership has been a concern. I hope you will hang in there and that improvement will come sooner than later.

Don't forget Magic Maclean. Madge's form and output has improved since 2016. He's in a small club though.

[1eyedog]

That was a lot of emotion, at that point when I typed that we blew another 5 - 6 goal lead. Deep down of course I don't mean it however right now it's pretty close to the truth. I just can't get over how bad we've become in such a short time, I've gone through different kinds of emotions: 2017 was OK, I was still on a high and thought we'd bounce back, 2018 was miserable, just sadness thinking how far we'd fallen and the opportunity wasted. 2019 is and has pretty much been anger.

I've always enjoyed watching my team regardless of the position on the ladder. Driving down to the footy was a nice escape, a time were I could forget about any issues in my life, forget about work, and just sit back and enjoy watching my team play. It's not like that now, I don't want to make the trips down anymore, it's pretty much half a day for me and I can't justify wasting my time going down there to see most of the players going through the motions out on the field. I force myself to watch when they're on TV, mostly have it on in the background and do something else. I also made the comment that I doubt I'll travel down again this season to watch and I probably won't. Sadly they're losing me as a diehard Bulldog supporter. People will throw flames at me for it and that's fine, I've done it in the past to when I've heard the "I'll cancel my membership" line but that's exactly how I feel right now.

Sounds to me like you've never been more Bulldog. The feeling you have, the fact you can't watch the game means you're still as invested as ever. Your emotions running so high just confirm it if you ask me. I don't think you're the sort of supporter who has a choice to just dip out. You might leave the forum, you might be nonchalant about us on the telly for a while but it's what being a Bulldogs supporter is about. We'll come good again and soon, we have too much talent across our list to flounder. Look at 2014 - 2015 things turn around quick. Glass half empty is we're playing ordinary footy at the moment because we're a young team and prone to lapses in concentration. Glass half full is we won a freaking premiership 3 years ago and pretty soon we'll have a 100-150 experienced nucleus overlying the best young players between 50-100 games in the AFL. Chin up mate.

[Danjul]

.
I just can't get over how bad we've become in such a short time,
... 2019 is and has pretty much been anger.
... I've always enjoyed watching my team regardless of the position on the ladder.

quite a lot of long term supporters are experiencing similar symptoms of frustration.

we have been told to be grateful for the successful year. But we were expecting a successful era, because that’s what others have had.

we can’t do much more than patiently wait for the next good year.

[The bulldog tragician]

The emotion of footy is such that it always seems this game, this season, this quarter is THE worst we’ve ever experienced. I wrote in my blog that when I thought Carlton would win, it felt like it would be the most terrible loss I’d ever been witness to. It felt absolutely true at the time though I reckon if it had happened, by now I’d be able to realise it wasn’t even in the prestigious top 30 of embarrassing losses. Such is the passion of footy.

I wrote too about being out of love with my club at present. I think we can all relate. There is only one cure and we know it only too well. Keep going and grinding through til the wheel turns.

[Bulldog4life]

quite a lot of long term supporters are experiencing similar symptoms of frustration.

we have been told to be grateful for the successful year. But we were expecting a successful era, because that’s what others have had.

we can’t do much more than patiently wait for the next good year.

Not me. I was there when we nearly had to close shop. These are easy days compared to that.

[bornadog]

Not me. I was there when we nearly had to close shop. These are easy days compared to that.

Same here.

Back in 1980 to 82, there were massive losses with no hope for winning ever. Then we employed Shane O'Sullivan and he changed the club by bringing in 10 players from WA, some local boys and a new coach in Malthouse, and suddenly there was hope. In 1989 it was the clubs finances even though on field we had a pretty good team and only just missed finals in 1990, and made a prelim in 1992. Then we had the Rhode years and didn't know what hit us. Along came Rocket and bang three prelims in a row.

The current status of the club, well I couldn't be prouder with great facilities, record profits over the past 3 to 4 years, and a team chocker block full of some very good talent that will only get better through age and experience. I am genuinely excited about young players in Naughton, English, Dunks, Daniel, Richards, Lippa, Smith to add to A graders in Bont, Macrae, JJ, Libba, Hunter etc

If we can develop some of the talls in Schache, Young, to take KPP roles, we are going to be a very good team to watch. Forget the last couple of years, it has happened, it's finished and let's move on.

It wasn't that long ago, there was a team based out of the inner suburbs, a foundation member of the VFL, won over 8 flags in it's 100 plus year history, it wasn't supported and has now disappeared - that is what you face if you don't follow this club.

[Danjul]

Not me. I was there when we nearly had to close shop. These are easy days compared to that.

That experience helps you but does nothing for 35 year old members trying to get their kids interested.

They are spending a considerable amount of money and the club is not delivering what they are paying for - success.

If the current situation continues the club loses long term. They are only as successful as their last few games.

Time to stop reliving 2016 and find out why Sydney played finals for 8? Consecutive years. That’s the KPI that’s needed.

[bornadog]

That experience helps you but does nothing for 35 year old members trying to get their kids interested.

They are spending a considerable amount of money and the club is not delivering what they are paying for - success.

If the current situation continues the club loses long term. They are only as successful as their last few games.

Time to stop reliving 2016 and find out why Sydney played finals for 8? Consecutive years. That’s the KPI that’s needed.

Well then, this is the now - enjoy:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZfgvV2MQOw

[Danjul]

Well then, this is the now - enjoy:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZfgvV2MQOw

Telling supporters to enjoy what has been served up in the last 50 games shows no understanding of the feelings out there.

And it doesn’t help the club going forward.

If that’s a reflection of the leadership belief the club will remain at the bottom of the membership table.

[Danjul]

Same here.

Back in 1980 to 82, there were massive losses with no hope for winning ever. Then we employed Shane O'Sullivan and he changed the club by bringing in 10 players from WA, some local boys and a new coach in Malthouse, and suddenly there was hope. In 1989 it was the clubs finances even though on field we had a pretty good team and only just missed finals in 1990, and made a prelim in 1992. Then we had the Rhode years and didn't know what hit us. Along came Rocket and bang three prelims in a row.



Malthouse took a team that was middle of the ladder into the finals for 1 year. Then the team steadily fell to second last.

In 1989 the club was a few heartbeats away from becoming the Fitzroy Bulldogs because they couldn’t get corporate support and a large membership.

That is the constant danger for less successful clubs.

[dadsgirl16]

Not sure I can articulate this but here goes...Being 60 something I always said ( before2016 ) being a Bulldog member was good for the soul and I honestly thought I would never ever see a premiership so when that dream came true ..well we all know the feeling
I cannot fathom some of the posts on here...sorry just don’t get it but that’s just me

[bornadog]

Malthouse took a team that was middle of the ladder into the finals for 1 year. Then the team steadily fell to second last.

In 1989 the club was a few heartbeats away from becoming the Fitzroy Bulldogs because they couldn’t get corporate support and a large membership.

That is the constant danger for less successful clubs.

Supporters that give up are not supporters.

[soupman]

Forget the last couple of years, it has happened, it's finished and let's move on.


And here is the crux of the issue. This certainly feels like the clubs pov on the matter: Nothing to see here, it's finished, let's move on, aren't we exciting?

There is a lot to get excited about with the club, but very little has been delivered since early 2017. For all the excuses we have used (issues with certain players, losing experience, rule changes etc) we still should have seen something that resembled improvement or growth somewhere. Instead there is no obvious gameplan that will take us forward, very few players making significant strides in their development, continual disappointing results and multiple players regressing despite being in age brackets that indicate they should be going the other way.

The fact that the club has been in worse positions before is irrelevant, we are still allowed to become frustrated and disappointed with the clubs performance and seeming inability to address it.

And contrary to those past situations the club is in a great position off field. Profits, ambitious stadium redevelopment proposals, good sponsorship arrangements, booming membership etc, which only serves to make it more frustrating. When we were poor off field it meant our expectations were somewhat tempered because the club was fighting against the odds just to stay alive let alone perform to a high level. But when the club is in the position it is today it is far more difficult to find a reason or excuse for such a consistently underwhelming performance on field.

Sure the Premiership did achieve a lot of goodwill, but it also made the fall afterwards so much harder and frustrating. We have all seen what this club and this playing group are capable of, and to be so consistently and completely far off that level since about round 8 2017 is exasperating. We finally had a chance to be a genuinely good side, and we blew it, and are now back to being a side seemingly stuck in a rut waiting for a circuit breaker again.

I read somewhere once that "shit clubs find a way to stay shit" and I think that kind of sums us up these last 3 years. Certainly the words are harsher than my true feelings, i do love and enjoy the club and always will, but we have consistently been a mediocre performing club and after our premiership i think we have quickly returned to the spot the football world believes we belong in, and really where we have consistently performed to. Just look at BT's membership score thread, 5-8 places off bottom seems exactly where we typically belong, and that's where we are now and have been for 3 years post flag. And that's after feeling like we had the world at our feet at the end of 2016.

So I guess my point comes back to the line quoted above, and particularly the bolded bit: "Forget the last couple of years, it has happened, it's finished and let's move on". That is a somewhat optimistic way of looking at it, because is it finished? It certainly doesn't feel like it. Not to me. Right now we feel just as mediocre as we did this time last year, and I don't know when this continual non improvement will end, despite the immense talent you can see at the club and our off field situation being plenty strong enough to facilitate the rise we all want to see, but aren't. No wonder half of us are frustrated.

[Danjul]

Supporters that give up are not supporters.

Those that have given up have walked away, and to the club’s loss.

Those who have stayed and are pointing out the problems are doing the club a favour.

All football clubs have to fight for the attention of non-supporters if they are to thrive these days. Success brings sponsors and the high exposure games. It is not simply about kicking a footy for 100 minutes any more. It is about survival.

Fortunately I don’t see a repeat of 1989 on the horizon, but that wasn’t long ago.

[FrediKanoute]

There is a lot to get excited about with the club, but very little has been delivered since early 2017. For all the excuses we have used (issues with certain players, losing experience, rule changes etc) we still should have seen something that resembled improvement or growth somewhere. Instead there is no obvious gameplan that will take us forward, very few players making significant strides in their development, continual disappointing results and multiple players regressing despite being in age brackets that indicate they should be going the other way.


I don't agree. The Group that won the flag, with the benefit of hindsight, peaked at the right time of year for a superb 4 week run of football. From that Group (both those that played and those that were part of the squad), senior players have retired (Murphy, M Boyd, Picken, Smith, Redders, Biggs), young stars have left the club for various reasons some within our control and some outside (T Boyd, Dahlhaus, Stringer, Hamling), some have been traded (Roughhead, Campbell). Putting it simply the 2015/6/7 version of the side is vastly different from the 2019 version. Whilst we could have predicted some going, losing guys like T Boyd, Picko, Smith really hurt the team - we lost a lot of goals that we haven't replaced and a lot of hard at the footy players. In Boyd we lost a maturing, versatile ruck forward.

To say there has been no improvement is wrong. Dunks is a much better player; Daniel is a better player; Bont is better; McLean is better; English is an upgrade on Roughie and T Boyd and will be better (injuries and mental health aside); Trengove is an upgrade on Roberts; Cordy, despite the criticism he cops on this board is a better player than in 2016; Hunter has gone forward; Wallis is an upgrade on the 2016/17 model; Naughton and Bailey Smith are guns and will be amazing upgrades on the guys they replaced. I could go on. We need to remember that guys like, McLean Daniel and Dunks are only just entering football maturity. Their best, injury permitting is still to come.

Yes some guys have disappointed and not progressed. Lin Jong is at the crossroads; Webb looks nothing like the kid who was taking intercept marks as a half back; Bailey Dale has had a tough 18 months of injury; Bailey Williams who knows (attitude has been mentioned), but when in tune and playing he is a gun; Ed Richards is having a tough 2019 as is Billy Gowers. Lewis Young....who knows!

We are in transition, but in all honesty, that 1st 40 minutes of football on the weekend was as good as I have seen the dogs play. All that was missing was scoreboard pressure. This year, the 1st Carlton game and WCE, we have been in the hunt in the latter stages of every game. Compared to 2018 and 2017 we are in the game for longer and we have beaten teams challenging for he top 8. It remains a work in progress, but progress there is.

[bornadog]

Those that have given up have walked away, and to the club’s loss.

Those who have stayed and are pointing out the problems are doing the club a favour.

All football clubs have to fight for the attention of non-supporters if they are to thrive these days. Success brings sponsors and the high exposure games. It is not simply about kicking a footy for 100 minutes any more. It is about survival.

Fortunately I don’t see a repeat of 1989 on the horizon, but that wasn’t long ago.

Carlton have won 4 or 5 games in the last 40, yet 35,000 still show up to games. Think about that.

[bornadog]

And here is the crux of the issue. This certainly feels like the clubs pov on the matter: Nothing to see here, it's finished, let's move on, aren't we exciting? .

Sorry mate love your points of view, but this I can't agree with. How can it be the crux of the issue - don't get it??????? Clubs point of view - I doubt it very much. Nothing to see here - yeah pull the other one. Disappointed in the last 2.5 years - of course, but I will keep supporting the club.

I guess, I just get sick of reading the same thing over and over about the last 2/3 years going over the same old ground, and that is why I said it's finished. I can moan and groan for ever about it, but what is the point. Of course I am disappointed by the on field results since 2016, like everyone else I wanted on going success, because after following the club for so long, I am not satisfied with two premierships. However, I can also see we have lots of talent, and I am looking forward to the current young bunch developing and becoming good footballers.

Like in other threads, I am not going to comment anymore about the last 2.5 years. I am going to look to the future.

[Grantysghost]

Not sure I can articulate this but here goes...Being 60 something I always said ( before2016 ) being a Bulldog member was good for the soul and I honestly thought I would never ever see a premiership so when that dream came true ..well we all know the feeling
I cannot fathom some of the posts on here...sorry just don’t get it but that’s just me
Totally agree.
Is there some merit in defining what success means for the individual. I see success mentioned all the time, no success mainly. However for me individually and I speak for no one but myself; it's not just winning games.
It could be moments within the game, it could be watching a first year player doing the extraordinary, it could be no queue at the pie line.
Maybe it's being through the awful 80s in my formative years, I needed to search for alternate versions of success. Probably not a bad exercise to define what it means for you. Totally get the winning games, it's the ultimate; I find joy in the little sub wins along the way also so for me it's not black and white.
This week it was definitely Tim English's towering marks against Carlton, win or lose the game they're still amazing wins for me.

[Ghost Dog]

Totally agree.
Is there some merit in defining what success means for the individual. I see success mentioned all the time, no success mainly. However for me individually and I speak for no one but myself; it's not just winning games.
It could be moments within the game, it could be watching a first year player doing the extraordinary, it could be no queue at the pie line.
Maybe it's being through the awful 80s in my formative years, I needed to search for alternate versions of success. Probably not a bad exercise to define what it means for you. Totally get the winning games, it's the ultimate; I find joy in the little sub wins along the way also so for me it's not black and white.
This week it was definitely Tim English's towering marks against Carlton, win or lose the game they're still amazing wins for me.

I agree. Sydney fans must be pretty pleased with the culture of their club. Geelong similar. You can never really rule these teams out. Both have had significant financial advantages over the journey, I know that. But Sydney in particular can take average players and make them much better. They entertain are always in for the fight. That should be our goal. in 2016 we showed that at enough moments to get it.

[1eyedog]

Look at it this way you could be a St. Kilda fan or even a Melbourne fan. We've had more success in the last 12 years than most clubs. Maybe I'm desensitized by standing on the Geelong Road hill through the late 70s and early 80s and the new crop of supporters have higher demands / expectations and are perhaps less patience and are less forgiving but I am optimistic about by that piece-meal demolition against Richmond a month ago as well as the mentally exhausting come from behind win against the Hawks.

We are in the bottom 4 youngest sides in the AFL and that's including a 36 year old bloke who's not currently playing. As I've mentioned previously things turn around very quickly, especially when you have the young talent that we do.

[Twodogs]

Totally agree.
Is there some merit in defining what success means for the individual. I see success mentioned all the time, no success mainly. However for me individually and I speak for no one but myself; it's not just winning games.
It could be moments within the game, it could be watching a first year player doing the extraordinary, it could be no queue at the pie line.
Maybe it's being through the awful 80s in my formative years, I needed to search for alternate versions of success. Probably not a bad exercise to define what it means for you. Totally get the winning games, it's the ultimate; I find joy in the little sub wins along the way also so for me it's not black and white.
This week it was definitely Tim English's towering marks against Carlton, win or lose the game they're still amazing wins for me.

I can remember my son being OS with his mum when Bontempelli kicked that goal over his shoulder against Melbourne in his second or third game. I just wrote 'how good is this, the kid can play' with no mention of whether we won or not, in fact I still can't remember if we won that game or not, but I do remember the Bont and him kicking a goal from the boundary line over his shoulder with half the Melbourne defence trying to stop him.

[Rocket Science]

Where's the line between being grateful for moments and victories small and large, and being content with less than sustained success?

It's possible to entertain both concepts simultaneously.

[Murphy'sLore]

Wow, who would have predicted that this thread would turn so philosophical?

[Grantysghost]

Wow, who would have predicted that this thread would turn so philosophical?

Ha. We, as Bulldogs, need to be practising stoicism.

As Marcus Aurelius once said at a Bulldogs function : If it's endurable then endure it, stop complaining.

[Danjul]

Carlton have won 4 or 5 games in the last 40, yet 35,000 still show up to games. Think about that.

The Carlton strength has not been generated recently. They have not found lots of new members. What you see is a group of who adopted the club a generation ago. That is the benefit of having a successful era.

Richmond did it too.

The Dogs are tens of thousands of members behind where they would have been if they had been successful then. That’s why success Now is important.

Although I think the club is safe, until the league decides Melbourne is too small for so many clubs.

Think about it.

[bornadog]

The Carlton strength has not been generated recently. They have not found lots of new members. What you see is a group of who adopted the club a generation ago. That is the benefit of having a successful era.

Richmond did it too.

The Dogs are tens of thousands of members behind where they would have been if they had been successful then. That’s why success Now is important.

Although I think the club is safe, until the league decides Melbourne is too small for so many clubs.

Think about it.

What I am saying is it is not just on field success, there is more to it.

What I mean about Carlton is they have had no success for many years, but the members stick with the club. Of course on going success means you can add more members, the trick is to keep them when you are down.

[Danjul]

What I am saying is it is not just on field success, there is more to it.

What I mean about Carlton is they have had no success for many years, but the members stick with the club. Of course on going success means you can add more members, the trick is to keep them when you are down.

I agree with that.

I would add that long periods of success probably result in members sticking longer during the less successful years.

[Go_Dogs]

Don't forget Magic Maclean. Madge's form and output has improved since 2016. He's in a small club though.

What? How?

[hujsh]

What? How?

Was true as of last year...

[ratsmac]

I can remember my son being OS with his mum when Bontempelli kicked that goal over his shoulder against Melbourne in his second or third game. I just wrote 'how good is this, the kid can play' with no mention of whether we won or not, in fact I still can't remember if we won that game or not, but I do remember the Bont and him kicking a goal from the boundary line over his shoulder with half the Melbourne defence trying to stop him.
When the Bont kicked that goal the score were level with a minute to go from memory. That's what made it even more remarkable for a first year player.

It's a great sign that we as supporters are spitting the dummy after a disappointing performance even though we won. We used to accept mediocrity as bulldog supporters. I for one had resigned to the fact that I would never see the Dogs win a premiership before 2016. Prelims were our limit. But now that we know that the Western Bulldogs are capable of winning it we don't want to go back to accepting honourable loses.