3 things you have learned Rd 14 2019 v Collingwood.

[Twodogs]

So tell us three things that you learned today. That you didn't know yesterday. Or even this morning. Or earlier this afternoon come to that.

[GVGjr]

Bump

[bulldogtragic]

1. When I thought our lack of professionalism with goal kicking couldn't get worse, we lost by 9 points and had 6 more scoring shots. No one seems to care except the members, or if it's part of a coaches job description then why do they have a job.

2. Sometime this week I need to update my excel spreadsheet 'the case of too cute by half with roles: don't do this again'. 'Williams as a forward' and 'Hunter starting inside the square'.

3. I didn't learn it, but Schache can play so maybe just select him and not 'decoy' forwards. Naughton averages 1.3 goals a game this year. Schache averages 1.6 goals a game this year. He's doing ok considering he has to relief ruck as well.

[Bullies]

1. Why bother playing Naughton one out when you have no intention of kicking it to him
2. This game was lost at selection. Would have been nice having a player like Toby up forward or does he have too many football "smarts"
3. Dickson is cooked and has been for the past 2 years and Roarke Smith was never up to it yet Bevo keeps playing him.

[Twodogs]

1. The players and the coaches don't care about the little things like goalkicking.
2. We could do with working on our goalkicking
3. I am better at and I take my goalkicking more seriously than an entire list of AFL footballers. Who would have thunk it?

[chef]

I didnt learn anything new, same old same old.

[westbulldog]

1. The supporters have had a gutful of the lack of attention to goalkicking by the coaching staff. If this can't be addressed then lets get a coaching staff who actually care.
2. The mids have had a gutful of getting the ball forward and seeing points kicked.
3. The backs have had a gutful of defending and seeing us kick points at the other end.

[Scorlibo]

1. Jac Mac for all of his other great attributes is still dead afraid of having a shot at goal when the opportunity presents
2. Pat Lipinski can be a good link-up midfielder at AFL level
3. Bailey Williams might be the most frustrating player on our list

[whythelongface]

1. Didn’t mind Roarke Smiths game. He is raw and made a few mistakes but also did some good things. Can see what Bevo sees in him.
2. Williams forward was interesting. Did some good things. I like how we experiment with certain players. Can see why supporters get frustrated, however give our list inadequacy it is important to see what our players can offer.
3. Again we can take it to the best teams but can’t get over the line due to our kicking for goal inadequacies.

[bornadog]

1. The supporters have had a gutful of the lack of attention to goalkicking by the coaching staff. If this can't be addressed then lets get a coaching staff who actually care.
2. The mids have had a gutful of getting the ball forward and seeing points kicked.
3. The backs have had a gutful of defending and seeing us kick points at the other end.

I can tell you now, no teams practise goal kicking. I heard Bucks talk about it early in the season, and there is NO skills training these days. Training consists of strategy, game plan, setting up plays etc.

[GVGjr]

I can tell you now, no teams practise goal kicking. I heard Bucks talk about it early in the season, and there is NO skills training these days. Training consists of strategy, game plan, setting up plays etc.

We still practice it.

[bornadog]

We still practice it.

We need to.

[anfo27]

For the first time i watched Schache today & believed this kid might make it. Easily his best game of his career. I was pleasantly surprised by his game today, keep it up young fella!

[1eyedog]

We still practice it.

Yes but it never seems structured at training it's always just a group of players having shots. Almost betting on kicks and laughing. It's not serious. Ask Jack Riewoldt or Brendon Fevola what serious goal kicking is.

[Ozza]

1. When I thought our lack of professionalism with goal kicking couldn't get worse, we lost by 9 points and had 6 more scoring shots. No one seems to care except the members, or if it's part of a coaches job description then why do they have a job.

2. Sometime this week I need to update my excel spreadsheet 'the case of too cute by half with roles: don't do this again'. 'Williams as a forward' and 'Hunter starting inside the square'.

3. I didn't learn it, but Schache can play so maybe just select him and not 'decoy' forwards. Naughton averages 1.3 goals a game this year. Schache averages 1.6 goals a game this year. He's doing ok considering he has to relief ruck as well.

BT, you would have observed that I have been very critical of Bevo's use of players/positioning this year - but I didn't have a problem with either of those two today. With Libba and Wally out, and Bailey Smith having shouldered a big workload inside this season, I thought it was very reasonable of Bevo to play Hunter inside mid for a lot of the game. He's turned to one of his most experienced players who can win a lot of footy, to do a job in the absence of some other experience players. And Hunter went pretty well.
On Bailey Williams - given we have so many half back flanker types, not everyone could be there today - and I actually thought Williams competed well forward.

So, I would say that over the whole season - I'm with you on the 'too smart by half' - but on today, I thought they came in with a plan that could win them the game, and it was only really poor conversion that got in the way. Probably the best Bevo has coached for a couple of months - so I have to give credit where due.

Completely agree on your goal kicking and Schache points.

[bulldogtragic]

BT, you would have observed that I have been very critical of Bevo's use of players/positioning this year - but I didn't have a problem with either of those two today. With Libba and Wally out, and Bailey Smith having shouldered a big workload inside this season, I thought it was very reasonable of Bevo to play Hunter inside mid for a lot of the game. He's turned to one of his most experienced players who can win a lot of footy, to do a job in the absence of some other experience players. And Hunter went pretty well.
On Bailey Williams - given we have so many half back flanker types, not everyone could be there today - and I actually thought Williams competed well forward.

So, I would say that over the whole season - I'm with you on the 'too smart by half' - but on today, I thought they came in with a plan that could win them the game, and it was only really poor conversion that got in the way. Probably the best Bevo has coached for a couple of months - so I have to give credit where due.

Completely agree on your goal kicking and Schache points.

Fair counter argument. But the issue of selecting too many half back flankers is the consensus. Because we have to play some players out of best position, I’d have gone with maybe Duryea forward (as he played a bit last year) and Williams back. Or since we all read about Williams moving to the midfield, maybe starting him there and leaving Hunter free to do his thing on the wing. The dropping of McLean hurt things in the middle rotations and the extra half backs just created an extra issue. I’m still not a fan of either decision, but the genesis of the match day moves was made days ago.

Which has me a little confused. Do we pick the best 22 based on all players, so we wind up some weeks over populated for back flankers or same paced mids. Or do we pick the best lines and cohesive unit across the board? It feels philosophically like we pick the 22 and if there’s too many of a type, we back in changes of roles will work despite no significant precedent for it.

[Ozza]

Fair counter argument. But the issue of selecting too many half back flankers is the consensus. Because we have to play some players out of best position, I’d have gone with maybe Duryea forward (as he played a bit last year) and Williams back. Or since we all read about Williams moving to the midfield, maybe starting him there and leaving Hunter free to do his thing on the wing. The dropping of McLean hurt things in the middle rotations and the extra half backs just created an extra issue. I’m still not a fan of either decision, but the genesis of the match day moves was made days ago.

Which has me a little confused. Do we pick the best 22 based on all players, so we wind up some weeks over populated for back flankers or same paced mids. Or do we pick the best lines and cohesive unit across the board? It feels philosophically like we pick the 22 and if there’s too many of a type, we back in changes of roles will work despite significant precedent for it.

I'm hearing ya, but Williams went quite well at times forward in the second half of last year, and he was a better option to compete in marking contests than Duryea. Do we go with too many flankers - for sure - but other than Lewis Young, I'm not sure who comes in from the 2s. Toby has been down all season, and as it turns out we won heaps of the footy through the midfield, so I'm not sure thats where we were lacking.

I wouldn't mind seeing Cordy competing forward. Lewis Young to play down back. Roarke is probably surplus to requirements.

[bulldogtragic]

I'm hearing ya, but Williams went quite well at times forward in the second half of last year, and he was a better option to compete in marking contests than Duryea. Do we go with too many flankers - for sure - but other than Lewis Young, I'm not sure who comes in from the 2s. Toby has been down all season, and as it turns out we won heaps of the footy through the midfield, so I'm not sure thats where we were lacking.

I wouldn't mind seeing Cordy competing forward. Lewis Young to play down back. Roarke is probably surplus to requirements.

I’m not too focused on the size of the player, but their best position. If we have say two too many back flankers so shoving them forward, why not select actual forwards be it Cavarra, even Gowers or West who would play forward pocket initially. Wood, JJ, Duryea, Crozier, Suckling, Daniel, Roarke & Williams seems excessive. Math says a good number will play somewhat out of position up the ground. Like they’re too talented to leave out, but too many also. In basketball terms, like having one centre, one guard and 8 point guards. Unless all 10 are Steph Curry, I don’t see it working. Maybe we can just pick the best ones and maybe a Roarke/Duryea miss.

On Hunter, I thought he was fine. I’d prefer him free from the square and better using his gut running and kicking to better advantage. His kicking maybe dinky, but hacked snaps and being tied in congestion don’t play to his many strengths.

[AshMac]

1. Brodie Grundy isnt just the best ruck in the league, he is a top 5 player
2. Bont is the most classy and slick player when on form I've seen since pendles was at his peak
3. Ed Richards is suffering from some serious second year blues

[Ozza]

1. Brodie Grundy isnt just the best ruck in the league, he is a top 5 player
2. Bont is the most classy and slick player when on form I've seen since pendles was at his peak
3. Ed Richards is suffering from some serious second year blues

Strange time to bring this up, when Richards had his best game of the season (which I'll agree has been well down on last year).
Ed was good today. And we should stick with him.

[bulldogtragic]

Strange time to bring this up, when Richards had his best game of the season (which I'll agree has been well down on last year).
Ed was good today. And we should stick with him.

Started on fire too. Got a career best 15 kicks, several of them I50’s. I thought it was a good run back from a spell.

[ratsmac]

1. Collingwood didn't win it as nearly as much as we lost it. Take your 4 points and never speak of this game again Collingwood.

2. We aren't that far off the pace. With some smart recruiting at seasons end we can be back to playing finals. Just not this year I'm afraid.

3. Roughead still looks shit in those colours (well shades).

[Grantysghost]

1. Moving the ball slowly and precisely in two thirds of the ground to avoid turnovers or scores on the back of them is nice; when you can spot up targets inside 50. Think we did that OK in this game, Collingwood just defended amazingly. They had 46 rebound fifties. (we had 31).
2. Stoppages against the pies; just avoid. So I see the above strategy being a bit of a way to do this. Keep the pill! However they were so good at manufacturing them with their mid group pressure when we did miss a target. Then they have it on their terms, and Grundy can do his thing. Centre clearances were pretty even, stoppages it was a different story 29-19 it was very evident at the game.
3. If Sam Lloyd is within 60 of goal he's having a shot. :cool:

[Templeton31]

1. The Coach still has the players. Well and truly. Bevo started being thrown into the 'coaches under threat' discussions with Richo, Bolton etc before the bye. I don't think he should be in that discussion and if he is its not coz he's lost the players - they gave their all (and they did last week too).

2. Josh Schache has forward craft and the one quality so many of our blokes don't. He can kick for goal (in the main) straight.

3. The Bont was next level clearance wise in 2nd half. Brilliant.

[AshMac]

Strange time to bring this up, when Richards had his best game of the season (which I'll agree has been well down on last year).
Ed was good today. And we should stick with him.

He did start well, lovely pass to English in the first qtr, and got enough of it over the day. Several missed kicks under no pressure really stuck out. I’m unsure if we’ve got him playing a specific role tbh

Agree sticking w him, I’m a big fan

[bornadog]

He did start well, lovely pass to English in the first qtr, and got enough of it over the day. Several missed kicks under no pressure really stuck out. I’m unsure if we’ve got him playing a specific role tbh

Agree sticking w him, I’m a big fan

His role is wing/half forward and to hit targets inside 50.

[bornadog]

1. Moving the ball slowly and precisely in two thirds of the ground to avoid turnovers or scores on the back of them is nice; when you can spot up targets inside 50. Think we did that OK in this game, Collingwood just defended amazingly. They had 46 rebound fifties. (we had 31).
2. Stoppages against the pies; just avoid. So I see the above strategy being a bit of a way to do this. Keep the pill! However they were so good at manufacturing them with their mid group pressure when we did miss a target. Then they have it on their terms, and Grundy can do his thing. Centre clearances were pretty even, stoppages it was a different story 29-19 it was very evident at the game.
3. If Sam Lloyd is within 60 of goal he's having a shot. :cool:

We really missed Libba in the stoppages and clearances.

[Happy Days]

1. I couldn’t be at the game so I tried to eat the tape on it later that night with the result in mind, but had to turn it off in the third quarter. I’ve been far more disappointed before but I don’t think I’ve ever been that frustrated. This wasn’t a “dominate possession but lose general play” McCartney special - this was genuinely pissed up against a wall through terrible goal kicking and idiotic entry inside 50

2. English has improved! Only got manslaughtered by Grundy rather that summarily executed. We needed a contingency for poor Tim, and it’s not like Mihocek, underrated as he is, is such a devastating player that Trengove had to stay on him to lock him down.

3. When my beautiful girlfriend, upon seeing De Goey kick that effortless goal from the pocket to compound our series of impotent misses that much further, asked me where our player who could do that was, all I could respond with was “at Essendon”. Our forward mix has some consistency now, but very little danger about it.

[Ozza]

I’m not too focused on the size of the player, but their best position. If we have say two too many back flankers so shoving them forward, why not select actual forwards be it Cavarra, even Gowers or West who would play forward pocket initially. Wood, JJ, Duryea, Crozier, Suckling, Daniel, Roarke & Williams seems excessive. Math says a good number will play somewhat out of position up the ground. Like they’re too talented to leave out, but too many also. In basketball terms, like having one centre, one guard and 8 point guards. Unless all 10 are Steph Curry, I don’t see it working. Maybe we can just pick the best ones and maybe a Roarke/Duryea miss.

On Hunter, I thought he was fine. I’d prefer him free from the square and better using his gut running and kicking to better advantage. His kicking maybe dinky, but hacked snaps and being tied in congestion don’t play to his many strengths.

I think in reality right now - Cavarra has missed a lot of footy and hasn't earned a spot yet, West is going ok but fades out of games, and Gowers is injured. I really think Lew Young is the one player who has regularly performed well at VFL level not getting rewarded - and I believe its because he is seen as similar to Schache in his contest/competitiveness.

Interesting to see how we go with the line up this week, after Port were successful last week going for a short line up and dropping some notable tall players.

[bulldogtragic]

I think in reality right now - Cavarra has missed a lot of footy and hasn't earned a spot yet, West is going ok but fades out of games, and Gowers is injured. I really think Lew Young is the one player who has regularly performed well at VFL level not getting rewarded - and I believe its because he is seen as similar to Schache in his contest/competitiveness.

Interesting to see how we go with the line up this week, after Port were successful last week going for a short line up and dropping some notable tall players.

It's pretty confusing about where Le Young is right now. Playing a bunch of roles at VFL level. Also interesting is whether we see him in our medium to long term plans. With not a lot of games to go at AFEL level this year, if he can't break into the side and not having a contract for next year, I wonder what we are going to do.

[Danjul]

It's pretty confusing about where Le Young is right now. Playing a bunch of roles at VFL level. Also interesting is whether we see him in our medium to long term plans. With not a lot of games to go at AFEL level this year, if he can't break into the side and not having a contract for next year, I wonder what we are going to do.
Young has had plenty of opportunities to show what he is capable of and now we all know.

He will never be a 20 possessions 50 hitouts ruckman.
He will never be a dashing 30 possessions CHB.

So it is time to give him the flick.

[Ozza]

Young has had plenty of opportunities to show what he is capable of and now we all know.

He will never be a 20 possessions 50 hitouts ruckman.
He will never be a dashing 30 possessions CHB.

So it is time to give him the flick.

Trying to work out if this post is sarcastic.
He's 20 years old and has played 11 games. Time is on his side.

[Mofra]

Trying to work out if this post is sarcastic.
He's 20 years old and has played 11 games. Time is on his side.
He's only one month older than Lachie Young who I think has done an amazing job as a wiry, under developed kid to earn a debut. We're excited about his future.

Lewie has real AFL attributes and we aren't exactly flush for tall talent right now. I'd absolutely keep him.

[Insufficient Intent]

Surely being awarded the admired No. 2 Guernsey signifies some recognition/expectation of young talent?

Agree with the positive posts; young Lew has plenty going for him and well worthy of retention and development.

[Mantis]

Young has had plenty of opportunities to show what he is capable of and now we all know.

He will never be a 20 possessions 50 hitouts ruckman.
He will never be a dashing 30 possessions CHB.

So it is time to give him the flick.

Really?

Others have mentioned it, but are you taking the piss?

[BornInDroopSt'54]

1. Being static, even from 15 metres when a teammate is passing to you is begging for an opponent to spoil or mark from behind. It happened a lot. FGS move towards the ball carrier or cause an evil TURNOVER.
2. Its less likely you know what's going on when you're 65yo and you go to footy with old magpie school mate. Less focussed and analytical.
3. Grundy works hard and seriouzly runs to be on end of chain receiver.

[bornadog]

1. The umpires still can't get it right when there is an obvious one.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D9y4KXuUEAANzLM.jpg

2. Caleb is in AA form, amazing how he reads the play and gets so much of the ball.

3. The Bont needs to be stitched up for the rest of his playing days.

[Danjul]

Really?

Others have mentioned it, but are you taking the piss?

Of course.

I was there for his first game and he got over 20 possessions at CHB. Lots of marks. Very impressive.

Not sure what he has been learning during the last two seasons.

[Mantis]

Of course.

I was there for his first game and he got over 20 possessions at CHB. Lots of marks. Very impressive.

Not sure what he has been learning during the last two seasons.

The best CHB’s in the game don’t average 20 possessions so I’m not sure why you’re expecting Young to do so.

[comrade]

1. I've ripped my hair out many times this season but that passage of play leading to Grundy's set shot goal may have topped them all. We just find unique ways to butcher opportunities that no other team is capable of.

2. Lipinski needs to stay in the middle for good. He's slow as treacle but his mind is quick and his hands are quicker.

3. The Naughton hype train has well and truly derailed. IMO, he's not our forward saviour and is better off in defence.

[Danjul]

The best CHB’s in the game don’t average 20 possessions so I’m not sure why you’re expecting Young to do so.

My comment was intended to indicate that Young did it 2 years ago, so with reasonable coaching we should be able to expect him to do it occasionally now.

[bornadog]

My comment was intended to indicate that Young did it 2 years ago, so with reasonable coaching we should be able to expect him to do it occasionally now.

Out of interest do you go to VFL matches, because if you did you wouldn’t keep banging on about Young. When he shows the right form a does what the coaches expect him to then he will get his chance.

[Danjul]

Out of interest do you go to VFL matches, because if you did you wouldn’t keep banging on about Young. When he shows the right form a does what the coaches expect him to then he will get his chance.

Too true.

Can you give some insight into what that might be? You and I know but a lot of others don’t.

[bornadog]

Too true.

Can you give some insight into what that might be? You and I know but a lot of others don’t.

I can only guess like you, but from what I have seen his second efforts are lacking ( as was Schache but he has turned that around), he needs to be more aggressive in the contest and learn to use his body more, plus his decision making skills are not brilliant as he stops and props alot.

As mentioned 100 times, he is only a kid at 20 years old and needs time to mature. Most talls do.