Our game plan / style / tactics are solid

[Topdog]

It's our execution that lets us down and costs us games.

Hear lots of doom and gloom from dogs supporters but we are on the right path

[Mantis]

Long way off with regards to personnel too.. some need time, others not quite up to it.

[kruder]

And thats why we continue to languish in the bottom half of the eight for the 3rd year straight. Everyone at the club must believe "our game plan/stye/tatctics are solid and its just execution letting us down. Cant wait for 2020 it will be just our execution that will cost us again.

[Topdog]

And thats why we continue to languish in the bottom half of the eight for the 3rd year straight. Everyone at the club must believe "our game plan/stye/tatctics are solid and its just execution letting us down. Cant wait for 2020 it will be just our execution that will cost us again.

Does that mean that you think there is a problem with our game plan? Our skill level is at times atrocious, especially once we get near the goals but we smashed the pies today everywhere except where it matters most :(

I think our game plan was pretty bad 2 years ago, improved last year.

[bornadog]

Does that mean that you think there is a problem with our game plan? Our skill level is at times atrocious, especially once we get near the goals but we smashed the pies today everywhere except where it matters most :(

I think our game plan was pretty bad 2 years ago, improved last year.

Skill levels (besides goal kicking) are also pretty good. We are number one for DE% and 2nd only by a few to Collingwood in Effective disposals. We just have to nail they set shots. Really inexcusable today.

[Sedat]

Skill levels (besides goal kicking) are also pretty good. We are number one for DE% and 2nd only by a few to Collingwood in Effective disposals. We just have to nail they set shots. Really inexcusable today.
So we are #1 for DE% and high up for effective disposals, and yet in another thread you dismiss our coaching/game plan being the issue for being 5-8 this season. Sounds an awful lot like the players are adhering to the game plan as set out by the coach, but the results are sub-par.

[bornadog]

So we are #1 for DE% and high up for effective disposals, and yet in another thread you dismiss our coaching/game plan being the issue for being 5-8 this season. Sounds an awful lot like the players are adhering to the game plan as set out by the coach, but the results are sub-par.

They are adhering to a good game plan, but we are not finishing off well.

Collingwood kicked 4 behinds today, we kicked 13, the majority were shots at goal. I can excuse Lloyd's 3 snaps, but the set shots from 30, 40 metres out no - not good enough.

[1eyedog]

There's a game plan? There's a mess that is made less messy because we have a heap of kids with a lot of talent. The coaches box is a food fight. Bevo needs new sounding boards ASAP.

[Eastdog]

A goal kicking plan would be nice. We dont have much issue it getting opportunities - it is what we do with them. The 2nd quarter we really should have kicked more goals than we did and the 3rd quarter is where I think we lost it.

[SonofScray]

Interesting. I walked away today thinking the opposite. With the squad we've got and the talent available to us, it feels like we aren't far off but our coaches haven't been able to deploy their strengths in a way that gives us enough of an advantage on the scoreboard.

[GVGjr]

Interesting. I walked away today thinking the opposite. With the squad we've got and the talent available to us, it feels like we aren't far off but our coaches haven't been able to deploy their strengths in a way that gives us enough of an advantage on the scoreboard.

Good call SoS, I think we have a strong enough list but we are just lacking some refinement with our skills.

[KT31]

Good call SoS, I think we have a strong enough list but we are just lacking some refinement with our skills.

Agree on the strong list, but still think we lack a couple of key posistion players to straighten us up and get the ball inside 50 without the over possession.
If we are not going to kick it to Naughton one out, play him back and recruit a key forward next season.

[GVGjr]

Agree on the strong list, but still think we lack a couple of key posistion players to straighten us up and get the ball inside 50 without the over possession.
If we are not going to kick it to Naughton one out, play him back and recruit a key forward next season.

No doubt we say we are missing a fit Tom Boyd but we must have known it was a strong chance he might not recover from his injuries and we should have been looking to make a move last year.

[Danjul]

Very Early in the game a friend said Grundy is going to win this game too.

He suggested:
Naughton to the backline, English to the forward line, Trengove to the ruck.

Didn’t happen.

Naughton scored 1 behind,
English was killed,
Trengove had a good game

Would the moves have made a difference, I suspect so.

[AshMac]

I’m wondering if we have a lack of leadership across the park. Players who calm and focus guys like Boyd Snr, Murph and Moz did/do. I personally think our LT lead by example rather than display onfield leadership and direction which is sorely missed with the runners taken away.

That and I often can’t figure out what our game plan actually is....

[bornadog]

If we are not going to kick it to Naughton one out, play him back and recruit a key forward next season.

Due to Naughton's inexperience, he seems to just stand in the square, or sit behind the opposition fullback. He needs to learn to lead out and give options. There was a great example in the third quarter when Schache lead beautifully and BSmith hit hm on the chest 30 metres out. We need more of this from a Naughton.

[bornadog]

Long way off with regards to personnel too.. some need time, others not quite up to it.

Who are they ;)

[westbulldog]

The overall effort is pretty good but when I watch someone having a set shot from 30m out I am thinking, he will miss it and they usually do. It is absolute BS and a total waste of time to develop any game plan and highly motivate the players because you CANNOT win games kicking POINTS.

[Danjul]

Due to Naughton's inexperience, he seems to just stand in the square, or sit behind the opposition fullback. He needs to learn to lead out and give options. There was a great example in the third quarter when Schache lead beautifully and BSmith hit hm on the chest 30 metres out. We need more of this from a Naughton.

This combination should be developed as a priority.

[Twodogs]

Due to Naughton's inexperience, he seems to just stand in the square, or sit behind the opposition fullback. He needs to learn to lead out and give options. There was a great example in the third quarter when Schache lead beautifully and BSmith hit hm on the chest 30 metres out. We need more of this from a Naughton.

Naughton did his preseason as a defender didnt he? He would have missed the leading/running patterns that the forwards learned. That and the fact he's just a kid and it's kind of understandable that he is doing the things you mention.

[bornadog]

Naughton did his preseason as a defender didnt he? He would have missed the leading/running patterns that the forwards learned. That and the fact he's just a kid and it's kind of understandable that he is doing the things you mention.

Yes, still only 19, and a lot to learn, but he is a beauty.

[Mofra]

Naughton did his preseason as a defender didnt he? He would have missed the leading/running patterns that the forwards learned. That and the fact he's just a kid and it's kind of understandable that he is doing the things you mention.
If Schache is leading at the ball carrier he's best off staying back to split the tall defenders and to provide the second option.

[ratsmac]

Schache and Naughton need to watch how Buddy goes about it. BT mentioned a few times the other night in his commentary (Sydney V Hawthorn), when buddy's team mates are lining up for goal he's still trying to lead up and get the ball so he can be the man. He's always busy trying to be a better option. Buddy loves being the man and we need Schache and Naughton to want to be the man just like Buddy.

[Ghost Dog]

And thats why we continue to languish in the bottom half of the eight for the 3rd year straight. Everyone at the club must believe "our game plan/stye/tatctics are solid and its just execution letting us down. Cant wait for 2020 it will be just our execution that will cost us again.

Agreed. The constant exuses around kicking are frustrating as hell. As if it is a variable we cannot control.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Due to Naughton's inexperience, he seems to just stand in the square, or sit behind the opposition fullback. He needs to learn to lead out and give options. There was a great example in the third quarter when Schache lead beautifully and BSmith hit hm on the chest 30 metres out. We need more of this from a Naughton.
Prior to joining the WB, Naughton played all his football as a defender. Personally I would prefer to see him used as a key defender with Trengrove moving into the ruck. This would then allow English to play at FF and as a second ruck man. English has the skills to play forward. His lack of maturity strength and experience is a concern as our number one ruck man at this stage of his development

[soupman]

Due to Naughton's inexperience, he seems to just stand in the square, or sit behind the opposition fullback. He needs to learn to lead out and give options. There was a great example in the third quarter when Schache lead beautifully and BSmith hit hm on the chest 30 metres out. We need more of this from a Naughton.

I looked out for what Naughton did and thought that generally he did the right thing. He did lead up frequently, but due to the slow manner in which we moved forward there were little spaces to lead into.

Besides, we needed him to perform two roles. One was to keep Moore accountable. Moore barely touched the footy and had no influence as an intercept defender. In part that was because of the way we brought the ball in which was slowly and avoiding bombing it long to Roughy and Moore. Secondly it was because Naughton kept him out of harms way and allowed Schache and Lloyd the room to find space and generate shots on goal.

Your example is fine, but there were moments where Naughton did the same. The key difference though is that Schache is good on the lead and weak in the aerial contest. Naughton is ok on the lead but excellent in the aerial contest. If we are going to keep one deep and have one lead up then certainly I don't expect Naughton to be the one leading.

[Eastdog]

The overall effort is pretty good but when I watch someone having a set shot from 30m out I am thinking, he will miss it and they usually do. It is absolute BS and a total waste of time to develop any game plan and highly motivate the players because you CANNOT win games kicking POINTS.

What good is the game plan if we cannot get the most important part of the game right which is kicking a winning score.

[1eyedog]

Naughton will be very good but he's not a natural forward like Schache is. Richmond didnt have a key back that night remember. No Rance, no Astbury. Naughton's excellent above his head and a good pinch hitting long option up forward but he has no idea where or when to lead. He needs to go back and we need to play Schache. We also need a good medium sized forward. Darling's out if reach but Tomlinson may be gettable.

[Ghost Dog]

All this hand wringing over tactics is nothing if we cannot get it through the sticks.
It's pretty simple really. Our lack of focus in this area is going kill us again. I feel a bit depressed gah!

[craigsahibee]

The overall effort is pretty good but when I watch someone having a set shot from 30m out I am thinking, he will miss it and they usually do. It is absolute BS and a total waste of time to develop any game plan and highly motivate the players because you CANNOT win games kicking POINTS.

I wonder whether the set shots issue we have is due to fatigue, which is a bi-product of the style of game we play and/or where the shots are being taken from (ie both angle and distance out). Only 5 times this year have we kicked more goals than points, 3 of those resulting in wins against Hawthorn 16.10, Richmond 15.9 and Carlton 15.13. The Hawthorn game is not a true reflection of our season as that last quarter was extremely rare. The Richmond game in particular we had a lot of deep entries, which Naughton capitalised on. It would be great if someone had the stats on where our set shot misses have been from, becuase I think the deeper we get into the forward 50 the better we are. Now this is not a mesmerising fact, but maybe it does hghlight where we need to improve and that's our set shots from 30 - 55. We probably dom't need stats to qualify this though do we?

[FrediKanoute]

No doubt we say we are missing a fit Tom Boyd but we must have known it was a strong chance he might not recover from his injuries and we should have been looking to make a move last year.

I can't agree with this. He had issues yes, but for mine Tom's issues were always less physical and more mental. No team in the game currently has the capacity to assess the extent to which a player is going to be affected by mental health issues.

[1eyedog]

I can't agree with this. He had issues yes, but for mine Tom's issues were always less physical and more mental. No team in the game currently has the capacity to assess the extent to which a player is going to be affected by mental health issues.

I reckon he knew and we did too. Possibly for quite a while. You could tell by the way Bevo reacted during the presser. It had been a long slow burn.

[GVGjr]

I can't agree with this. He had issues yes, but for mine Tom's issues were always less physical and more mental. No team in the game currently has the capacity to assess the extent to which a player is going to be affected by mental health issues.

It was his back injury that stopped him training. We must have know he was doubtful to get into full training before the start of the season.

[bornadog]

It was his back injury that stopped him training. We must have know he was doubtful to get into full training before the start of the season.

Was the back injury just a mask as the real problem was his mental issues.

[Twodogs]

Was the back injury just a mask as the real problem was his mental issues.

One can feed the other. Maybe the fact that he couldn't train or play fed the anxiety/depression? He could have felt that he was letting everyone down, although he never did.

[bornadog]

One can feed the other. Maybe the fact that he couldn't train or play fed the anxiety/depression? He could have felt that he was letting everyone down, although he never did.

Good point

[Twodogs]

Good point

Actually I know that for a fact. I've suffered from depression and anxiety ever since I was at school-somedays I cant get out of the house.

[jeemak]

So what I'm reading in this thread is that our game plan and match day tactics are possibly cooked, even though we all acknowledge we're lacking in key personnel, and some of us believe that we should make fringe positional changes around the midfield and half forward area as well as shuffle some talls.

I guess my question is, would any of the peripheral changes in the midfield and around the flanks, and the shuffling of talls have a material impact on the way we would, could or should play?

Would the changes make us defend the ground better, give a consistent effort across four quarters, move the ball slower and more precisely rather than either frantically or laterally by hand and foot to avoid interceptors, or kick straighter in front of the big sticks?

I genuinely think we play the way we do because all of our key position players outside of our full back including the ruck are developing - and that goes for Cordy as well. We can move the deck chairs around, but what we're left with is key position players who are developing, and putting Trengove in the ruck we possibly make an improvement but generate a loss in defence with the inclusion of Young, or weaken the forward line with a shift of Naughton back to where he started his career. We can bring Fletcher Roberts in because he's experienced (and I'd be cool with that) but would that actually change the state of play or look of the side?

So I ask, what should we be doing to materially impact the way we play each week? I don't have the answers, but I have feeling the reason why our leaders on and off the ground talk about effort and execution so bloody often is that with a strong performance across each we can compete well, but without it we get exposed because of our positional deficiencies.

Who's got some ideas outside of some positional changes that have as much downside as they ultimately upside?

[Danjul]

I guess my question is, would any of the peripheral changes in the midfield and around the flanks, and the shuffling of talls have a material impact on the way we would, could or should play?

Would the changes make us defend the ground better, give a consistent effort across four quarters, move the ball slower and more precisely rather than either frantically or laterally by hand and foot to avoid interceptors, or kick straighter in front of the big sticks?



Let’s look at the Gold Coast game. The ruck imbalance was 70 hitouts to 17 , a difference of 53.

The question is would reducing that difference to 23 have made a difference to how Gold Coast scored? Yes!

Would it have made a difference for the Dogs? Yes!

Would those combined effects have been the equivalent of a better shot at goal? Probably.

We lost that game by less than a goal.

So why didn’t we do it?

Trengove was not selected. English was the only ruckman with any experience and Schache helped with 1 hitout.

Was Witts a proven ruckman? Certainly, having had more than 50 hitouts a number of times previously .

So my suggested answer to your question is yes. That’s one of the games we lost before it even started. So many built in deficiencies a win was unlikely. Did we learn from it? The following week was the Collingwood game. Basically a repeat.

[Ghost Dog]

Let’s look at the Gold Coast game. The ruck imbalance was 70 hitouts to 17 , a difference of 53.

The question is would reducing that difference to 23 have made a difference to how Gold Coast scored? Yes!

Would it have made a difference for the Dogs? Yes!

Would those combined effects have been the equivalent of a better shot at goal? Probably.

We lost that game by less than a goal.

So why didn’t we do it?

Trengove was not selected. English was the only ruckman with any experience and Schache helped with 1 hitout.

Was Witts a proven ruckman? Certainly, having had more than 50 hitouts a number of times previously .

So my suggested answer to your question is yes. That’s one of the games we lost before it even started. So many built in deficiencies a win was unlikely. Did we learn from it? The following week was the Collingwood game. Basically a repeat.

Took way, way too long to bring in Trengrove.

[jeemak]

Took way, way too long to bring in Trengrove.

The thread title is game plan, tactics and style related. I agree that we should have brought him in earlier, but as to my post, what can we actually do differently given bringing him in has helped but hasn't stopped the hand wringing over how we play?

[Ghost Dog]

The thread title is game plan, tactics and style related. I agree that we should have brought him in earlier, but as to my post, what can we actually do differently given bringing him in has helped but hasn't stopped the hand wringing over how we play?

Part of bringing in mature players is changing the style. We just lack experienced mature bodies, who can slow things down, slot a goal to put on some pressure, direct traffic on field. But not sure if we have anyone like that to step in. So I guess it's a moot point ( waves at Jordan Roughead ). Suckers has shown glimpses of it. Just looking at the list of guys we have lost. Huge hole in on-field leadership.

[mjp]

Let’s look at the Gold Coast game. The ruck imbalance was 70 hitouts to 17 , a difference of 53.

The question is would reducing that difference to 23 have made a difference to how Gold Coast scored? Yes!

Would it have made a difference for the Dogs? Yes!


This isn't how footy works.

You can talk about hit-outs all you like but we won the clearances 44-30 that day - so who gives a rats about the hit-out numbers?

Rolling up at the game unprepared to play AFL footy after coming from behind in exciting style the week before cost us the win. We allowed GC to have 10 scoring shots in q1...including 6 goals. We kept them to 4-goals for the rest of the day. Whatever you say about English, Witts didn't 'wear him down' that day. That is using a hit-out number to support your narrative...

Our players were actually pretty bloody good against GC - but you cannot give teams a 5 goal start.

Is English perfect? No. Did he cost us the GC game? No. Did he cost us the Pies game (well, apparently GAMES). No.

Back in R#4 Collingwood actually beat us pretty well...last weekend, they were let off the hook by some pretty dodgey conversion in a game that we dominated for large stretches and finished comfortably ahead in i50's, possessions etc...it wasn't like that back in R4 which was an even contest that Collingwood always seemed they would eventually prevail. And sure, Grundy was good back in R4 - but so were Phillips, Pendlebury, Adams, Sidebottom and Howe.

Grundy was awesome last Sunday - but that wasn't the difference on the day. That said, English has no excuse for not being in front at that D50 BTI from which Grundy hit the ball to himself, gathered it and kicked a goal...that isn't experience/body size though...that is concentration and not recognising the moment.

[Danjul]

This isn't how footy works.

You can talk about hit-outs all you like but we won the clearances 44-30 that day - so who gives a rats about the hit-out numbers?
.

You are underestimating the value of ruck work.

On Sunday Collingwood scored 7 goals from it and the Dogs got 1.

A six goal differential when the final result was less than 2.

Their ruck dominance completely negated what should have been the Bulldog’s match winning control in general play.

The club has shown absolute contempt for this critical aspect of the game throughout the last few years and it has correlated strongly with its decline. I don’t expect that to change, it is in their DNA now. You can see it repeatedly. And I suspect that it has thrown a number of players off their game.

Clearances are a meaningless statistic from the viewpoint of winning. The Dogs have won this measure in most of their losses. But they are under enormous pressure and often unable to control where the ball goes.

[jeemak]

You are underestimating the value of ruck work.

On Sunday Collingwood scored 7 goals from it and the Dogs got 1.

A six goal differential when the final result was less than 2.

Their ruck dominance completely negated what should have been the Bulldog’s match winning control in general play.

The club has shown absolute contempt for this critical aspect of the game throughout the last few years and it has correlated strongly with its decline. I don’t expect that to change, it is in their DNA now. You can see it repeatedly. And I suspect that it has thrown a number of players off their game.

Clearances are a meaningless statistic from the viewpoint of winning. The Dogs have won this measure in most of their losses. But they are under enormous pressure and often unable to control where the ball goes.

From ruck work or stoppages?

Why do we assume that Trengove would have had a good day at the office anyway?

[Danjul]

From following a link on the AFL website.

Riley Beveridge
(https://www.afl.com.au/news/author/riley-beveridge)
Apr 12, 2019 10:56PM


Are the Dogs' struggles in the ruck too much to overcome?Grundy had 17 hitouts to advantage throughout the evening. English didn't have one. With such dominance going one way, the Dogs were forced to improvise.
Marcus Bontempelli, Jack Macrae and Lachie Hunter were again prolific. Together with the remaining Western Bulldogs midfielders, they came up with 10 sharks from Grundy's work in the air. However, they were eventually overrun and overwhelmed.



Short Answer: Yes.

[Danjul]

From ruck work or stoppages?

Why do we assume that Trengove would have had a good day at the office anyway?


we only need to have it ..... less bad.

[jeemak]

I'm not following.

[Twodogs]

From following a link on the AFL website.

Riley Beveridge
(https://www.afl.com.au/news/author/riley-beveridge)
Apr 12, 2019 10:56PM


Are the Dogs' struggles in the ruck too much to overcome?Grundy had 17 hitouts to advantage throughout the evening. English didn't have one. With such dominance going one way, the Dogs were forced to improvise.
Marcus Bontempelli, Jack Macrae and Lachie Hunter were again prolific. Together with the remaining Western Bulldogs midfielders, they came up with 10 sharks from Grundy's work in the air. However, they were eventually overrun and overwhelmed.



Short Answer: Yes.

Is Riley Beveridge any relation to the boss?

[Danjul]

I'm not following.

Sorry.

We don’t have to win the ruck work. English can spend time there, but when the opposition is getting hitouts to advantage dominance there must be a plan to limit the damage.

A hitout to advantage puts the ball in the hands of a player running in the clear. They gain metres, have time to choose a target and kick without being under pressure. It often leads to scoring.

Grundy and Goldstein did it regularly against us this season. In the article below, plus 17 hitouts to advantage can turn the game. We lost that one by 2 goals.

The Dogs are very good at getting the clearance but they are well down the list for keeping control of the ball from the stoppage.

[mjp]

You are underestimating the value of ruck work.

On Sunday Collingwood scored 7 goals from it and the Dogs got 1.

A six goal differential when the final result was less than 2.

Their ruck dominance completely negated what should have been the Bulldog’s match winning control in general play.

The club has shown absolute contempt for this critical aspect of the game throughout the last few years and it has correlated strongly with its decline. I don’t expect that to change, it is in their DNA now. You can see it repeatedly. And I suspect that it has thrown a number of players off their game.

Clearances are a meaningless statistic from the viewpoint of winning. The Dogs have won this measure in most of their losses. But they are under enormous pressure and often unable to control where the ball goes.

Clearances are meaningless but hitouts are critical?

Can you not seem the complete madness in comments like this?

[Danjul]

Clearances are meaningless but hitouts are critical?

Can you not seem the complete madness in comments like this?

The clearance figure indicates getting the ball away from the stoppage area. Who it goes to is irrelevant. It can go to nobody.

When it goes to a contest the Dogs are about 15th for winning that contest and keeping control of the ball...

...Because Delivery from winning a lost hitout is often quite poor.

(The top three teams on the ladder are the top three for keeping control.)

Dominant ruckmen give many hitouts to advantage which are gold when it comes to both keeping control and scoring sequences.

And we have constantly been on the wrong end of that statistic.



No madness in any of that.

[Topdog]

Smashed in the hit outs again but won the clearances and the game easily

[Danjul]

Smashed in the hit outs again but won the clearances and the game easily

Are you suggesting that +7 clearances won that game. That’s not how I saw it.

I would suggest that consistently being smashed in the hitouts is the reason we are not 6 places higher on the ladder and looking at finals.

[bornadog]

Are you suggesting that +7 clearances won that game. That’s not how I saw it.

I would suggest that consistently being smashed in the hitouts is the reason we are not 6 places higher on the ladder and looking at finals.

Only if you win the clearances. Hitouts to advantage is the real ruck stat that needs to be looked at.

[GVGjr]

Only if you win the clearances. Hitouts to advantage is the real ruck stat that needs to be looked at.

There is some merit in that. Hit outs to advantage are a plus for the midfield as they can work with the ruck mans strengths and hit out patterns rather than trying to predict where the opposition ruckman will be placing the ball

[Danjul]

Only if you win the clearances. Hitouts to advantage is the real ruck stat that needs to be looked at.

We are not getting them and we are not stopping them.

Time for some new thinking - swap Sweet for Richards (had a shocker on Saturday).

[Danjul]

There is some merit in that. Hit outs to advantage are a plus for the midfield as they can work with the ruck mans strengths and hit out patterns rather than trying to predict where the opposition ruckman will be placing the ball

Perfectly stated.

Our midfield would dominate games, giving better delivery to the forwards and drying up opportunities for the opposition.

Which extra games would they have won with 10 more?

[Mantis]

We are not getting them and we are not stopping them.

Time for some new thinking - swap Sweet for Richards (had a shocker on Saturday).

Where does English play? And if you’re thinking forward can we fit all of Naughton, Schache and English in the same forwardlibe?

[bornadog]

Perfectly stated.

Our midfield would dominate games, giving better delivery to the forwards and drying up opportunities for the opposition.

Which extra games would they have won with 10 more?

Our mids are dominating games, we are delivering into the forward line as the marks inside 50 indicates (top 3).

Our problem has been defending.

[Mofra]

Our mids are dominating games, we are delivering into the forward line as the marks inside 50 indicates (top 3).

Our problem has been defending.
We've generally been in the bottom 3 for converting inside 50s into goals for the year, it's also a valid concern.

[Danjul]

Our mids are dominating games, we are delivering into the forward line as the marks inside 50 indicates (top 3).

Our problem has been defending.

I think (and I am open to correction) that we have lost a few games where we have had equal or more shots at goal.

On Saturday Dickson kicked a goal from the 50 metre arc. Dunkley missed (again) from half the distance and a better angle, I refuse to believe that he cannot fix this. Someone at the club must be able to help him (and others).

[Danjul]

Where does English play? And if you’re thinking forward can we fit all of Naughton, Schache and English in the same forwardlibe?

If the team has room for a dozen half backs I’m sure it’s got to room for a tall to help English. If English had 10 minutes a quarter he might dominate that 10 minutes. Opposition never has 2 ruckmen better than him.

[GVGjr]

I think (and I am open to correction) that we have lost a few games where we have had equal or more shots at goal.

On Saturday Dickson kicked a goal from the 50 metre arc. Dunkley missed (again) from half the distance and a better angle, I refuse to believe that he cannot fix this. Someone at the club must be able to help him (and others).

Yep, goal kicking accuracy is fixable. I haven't heard a compelling argument to say that it isn't
We have the playing list and a good coach and once we fix the accuracy by just 10% we will be a force.
Players like Dunkley will also be dead set superstars of the competition if he starts converting more set shots from 35 or 40mtrs out

[Mantis]

If the team has room for a dozen half backs I’m sure it’s got to room for a tall to help English. If English had 10 minutes a quarter he might dominate that 10 minutes. Opposition never has 2 ruckmen better than him.

You didn’t answer the question.

And are you sure Sweet will be able to mix it up with the elite ruckman of the competition?

[bornadog]

We've generally been in the bottom 3 for converting inside 50s into goals for the year, it's also a valid concern.

I know it is a problem, but a good one to have, as we are getting the ball in there.

[bornadog]

You didn’t answer the question.

And are you sure Sweet will be able to mix it up with the elite ruckman of the competition?

I think Sweet is way off AFL standard at this stage.

[hujsh]

I think Sweet is way off AFL standard at this stage.

I think 99% of the world agrees with you there

[Danjul]

You didn’t answer the question.

And are you sure Sweet will be able to mix it up with the elite ruckman of the competition?

My point is English is being massacred by the elite ruckmen, so badly that it totally minimises his contribution and we lose games.

we have seen Trengove, Cordy, Naughton, Dunkley and Schache moved into the ruck during games. Always with the result of destabilising the position they move from. Schache is currently our best forward, What do we gain from him totally wasting his time in the ruck?

So in answer to your question, ** Will Sweet be able to mix it up with the elite ruckman of the competition? **

I say he doesn’t have to.

His role is to give English the opportunity to remain productive, prevent key position players being destabilised, get a dozen hitouts, prevent the opposition getting some hitouts to advantage and maybe getting half a dozen possessions.

Might he have more impact than Richards at the moment? From what I read here the only answer is yes.

As I see it this ruck problem is the main reason for the team’s ladder position. Without it we would be in the finals.

[bornadog]

My point is English is being massacred by the elite ruckmen, so badly that it totally minimises his contribution and we lose games.

we have seen Trengove, Cordy, Naughton, Dunkley and Schache moved into the ruck during games. Always with the result of destabilising the position they move from. Schache is currently our best forward, What do we gain from him totally wasting his time in the ruck?

So in answer to your question, ** Will Sweet be able to mix it up with the elite ruckman of the competition? **

I say he doesn’t have to.

His role is to give English the opportunity to remain productive, prevent key position players being destabilised, get a dozen hitouts, prevent the opposition getting some hitouts to advantage and maybe getting half a dozen possessions.

Might he have more impact than Richards at the moment? From what I read here the only answer is yes.

As I see it this ruck problem is the main reason for the team’s ladder position. Without it we would be in the finals.

The second ruck needs to not only contribute in the ruck, which no doubt Sweet may be able to do, but also contribute around the ground. What does Sweet do when he is not in the ruck? He is not good enough as a first ruck or second ruck. Schache only goes into the ruck to give English a breather for 5 minutes here and there.

I know you keep saying the ruck is the problem and that is why we have lost games, but I can't agree. You need to delve deeper.

[Danjul]

The second ruck needs to not only contribute in the ruck, which no doubt Sweet may be able to do, but also contribute around the ground. What does Sweet do when he is not in the ruck? He is not good enough as a first ruck or second ruck. Schache only goes into the ruck to give English a breather for 5 minutes here and there.

I know you keep saying the ruck is the problem and that is why we have lost games, but I can't agree. You need to delve deeper.

I am absolutely certain that the Club’s predicament is largely a result of ruck mismanagement. We could be doing better with the players we have. When Schache goes into the ruck his contribution is reduced to zero, the forward line loses out significantly. Poor goal kicking has also minimised our success so why remove the best goal kicker for 15 minutes?

How did Gardner go straight into the team when Sweet has to be perfect to be considered? Sweet doesn’t have to play in every game, it depends on who they are playing.

Anyway, when you delve deeper what solution do you find that is better than mine?

[Danjul]

I know it is a problem, but a good one to have, as we are getting the ball in there.

This is professional sport. No problem is a good one to have.

No business survives by dismissing problems, they must be solved when detected.

The whole justification for support staff is to remove problems. I’m assuming they are working 100% to improve the accuracy and distance for the forwards. But it is still enough of a problem to cost games.

[Bulldog Joe]

I am absolutely certain that the Club’s predicament is largely a result of ruck mismanagement. We could be doing better with the players we have. When Schache goes into the ruck his contribution is reduced to zero, the forward line loses out significantly. Poor goal kicking has also minimised our success so why remove the best goal kicker for 15 minutes?

How did Gardner go straight into the team when Sweet has to be perfect to be considered? Sweet doesn’t have to play in every game, it depends on who they are playing.

Anyway, when you delve deeper what solution do you find that is better than mine?

Gardner was clearly brought into the team because they believed he could defend McGovern better than anyone else.

If Sweet comes into the side we lose a lot of mobility. He has yet to show that he can contribute outside of the ruck contest. Although it does seem that he last 2 games indicate improvement.

Against Port both Schache and Naughton (particularly) contributed when on ball giving English a spell.

[Danjul]

Gardner was clearly brought into the team because they believed he could defend McGovern better than anyone else.

If Sweet comes into the side we lose a lot of mobility. He has yet to show that he can contribute outside of the ruck contest. Although it does seem that he last 2 games indicate improvement.

Against Port both Schache and Naughton (particularly) contributed when on ball giving English a spell.

Naughton yes. Excellent ruck work after a disastrous first half on the forward line. But obviously not best use of him for the team.

Schache no. Should never go near the ruck. Gets 1 hitout but robs the forward line for 15 minutes. He is a specialist forward. Should never train players to be beaten.

Sweet isn’t a perfect solution but there could be significant upside for the team.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I see what danjul is saying. The ruck is an ongoing issue for us - there’s no disputing that, particularly against strong first rucks. The best we can hope for most weeks is to break even.

I don’t like Schache going into the ruck just like I didnt like Boyd rucking as much as he did. Schache in particular is no ruck; if he needs to get into the game he should play as a high forward but rucking him doesn’t achieve much.

Naughton can play anywhere with his leap but putting him in the ruck to get smashed around is a poor long term move. Simply must play FF or CHB.

We don’t have the answer yet - can we recruit a first ruck and use English more forward or can we recruit a second ruck who plays multiple positions? The former seems a more likely option.

At some stage this year we should give Sweet a taste though - despite how far off he may be - he needs to find out what it takes at AFl level and we need to find out how far off he actually is.

[AshMac]

just going back to our game plan.

Read an article on fox footy about Port Adelaide - there is a nice summary of thier shifting game plan over last last 4 years.

Here it is:

PORT’S SHIFTING GAME STYLE

2016: Fast and direct

2017: Strong forward half press

2018: Slow and controlled

2019: Fast, corridor and strong press


I’m wondering for the more astute observers of the game, how would you describe our game plan in 2019?

[hujsh]

I see what danjul is saying. The ruck is an ongoing issue for us - there’s no disputing that, particularly against strong first rucks. The best we can hope for most weeks is to break even.

I don’t like Schache going into the ruck just like I didnt like Boyd rucking as much as he did. Schache in particular is no ruck; if he needs to get into the game he should play as a high forward but rucking him doesn’t achieve much.

Naughton can play anywhere with his leap but putting him in the ruck to get smashed around is a poor long term move. Simply must play FF or CHB.

We don’t have the answer yet - can we recruit a first ruck and use English more forward or can we recruit a second ruck who plays multiple positions? The former seems a more likely option.

At some stage this year we should give Sweet a taste though - despite how far off he may be - he needs to find out what it takes at AFl level and we need to find out how far off he actually is.

Is that pretty much Trengove? Unless the idea isn’t to get a more Westoff type or a Jarred Brennan type with a huge leap?

[Mofra]

Is that pretty much Trengove? Unless the idea isn’t to get a more Westoff type or a Jarred Brennan type with a huge leap?
Trengove spent most of pre-season as a ruck, not a defender.
The plan was to share ruck duties with the club reportedly 'excited' by what English could show forward (repeating a pre-season fluff piece).

Given the plans we abandoned during the JLT (a repeat from last year) I'm starting to think Bevo is a great match day and intra-season coach, but not as good pre-season.

[Danjul]

Trengove spent most of pre-season as a ruck, not a defender.
The plan was to share ruck duties with the club reportedly 'excited' by what English could show forward (repeating a pre-season fluff piece).

Given the plans we abandoned during the JLT (a repeat from last year) I'm starting to think Bevo is a great match day and intra-season coach, but not as good pre-season.

Trengove couldn’t get a game at the start of the season.

The match day plan was:

backline - Cordy and some little blokes.
ruck - English and some little blokes.
forward - Schache and some little blokes.

If anything goes wrong use Naughton.

I don’t think this justifies use of the word GREAT. The plan hasn’t improved much.

[Topdog]

.

I don’t think this justifies use of the word GREAT. The plan hasn’t improved much.

And yet here we are with 3 wins from our last 4, beating 5th and 1st in the past 2 weeks.

Our game plan must be doing pretty well

[comrade]

And yet here we are with 3 wins from our last 4, beating 5th and 1st in the past 2 weeks.

Our game plan must be doing pretty well

We need more hit outs though ;)

[ledge]

We need more hit outs though ;)

I would like to see Sweet as our tap ruck and English as around the ground or up forward.
Sweet did his ankle today though at the end of the Third quarter or I think he would have been pushing , two great games in a row.

[jeemak]

When everyone plays with intensity and we cover defencively our game plan hides our clear personnel deficiencies.

The problem is it's hard to bring every week, though we seem to have hit a good patch over the last few weeks. However, when you have the under developed key position format that we have it's going to result in some inconsistent output game to game. Let's enjoy it when it's good, and maybe not be so bloody rabid when it isn't.

[SonofScray]

Winning cures plenty of ailments, goals too.

There is enough talent in the 22 to produce those type of results, we are entirely capable on our day. Can we have enough days? I'm not as certain as I was in 15/16.

Selection seems to be settling down and offering continuity. I dare say Bevo has as close to his preferred side out there in the past 3 weeks as he has since the flag. Less bat shit crazy deployment of certain players. His mood has shifted too, it was really noticeable last week and carried in to tonight. Something has lit a fire underneath him. It's pleasing to see, because like our squad, he has been capable of much better.

I liked that Geelong defensive press couldn't be utilised to launch a counter punch. We were pretty concise with where the ball went when they were set up behind it. Put in into fairly safe spots, with numbers at the source. The pressure on the deck and aerial efforts of Wood, English, Crozier, Shache, Naughton and Bont were really important.

we made some good tactical adjustments last night and it pulled their pants down.

[Danjul]

And yet here we are with 3 wins from our last 4, beating 5th and 1st in the past 2 weeks.

Our game plan must be doing pretty well

The last 2 weeks have weakened my argument, and I hope the next few beat it up further.

I did hear people at the game say they thought there have improvements in the match decisions.

Williams, Lipinski and Schache, were all brought into the team for that winning streak. As many here suggested.

They, and Trengove, were missing in earlier (unnecessary) losses.

[Happy Days]

The last 2 weeks have weakened my argument, and I hope the next few beat it up further.

I did hear people at the game say they thought there have improvements in the match decisions.

Williams, Lipinski and Schache, were all brought into the team for that winning streak. As many here suggested.

They, and Trengove, were missing in earlier (unnecessary) losses.

The selections of Hayes, Gardner and even Lachie Young were egregious at the time and even more mind-boggling in hindsight. At least the players impacted have responded positively and improved since being demoted.

[azabob]

Interesting commentary from Bevo how in the last quarter we played a 6 man forward line and it worked as it allowed Naughton and co time and space to lead into.

Will be interesting to see how it plays out over the next few weeks.

[ledge]

Who sees a lot of 2015 in us at the moment ? I do.

[Danjul]

Interesting commentary from Bevo how in the last quarter we played a 6 man forward line and it worked as it allowed Naughton and co time and space to lead into.

Will be interesting to see how it plays out over the next few weeks.

A friend chose to sit where he gets a good overview of the game. Sent this text late in the match:

Bev made some moves. 6 forwards on the last quarter. What a surprise

[Mofra]

In the past few weeks it seems like we've caught up with tactics this year and ditched the super-fast 2016 gameplan for a slower ball movement gameplan and it's worked.

It's amazing just how different playing styles are from just two years ago. Maintaining possession is now more important than fast transition.

[Eastdog]

Who sees a lot of 2015 in us at the moment ? I do.

I enjoyed the 2015 home and away season very much and even thought it was slightly better than the 2016 home and away season in which we won the greatest premiership and the greatest final series.

[bornadog]

In the past few weeks it seems like we've caught up with tactics this year and ditched the super-fast 2016 gameplan for a slower ball movement gameplan and it's worked.

It's amazing just how different playing styles are from just two years ago. Maintaining possession is now more important than fast transition.

Most commentators say we have a completely different game style than any other team. Finally it is starting to gel as we play more and more games together.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

It's our execution that lets us down and costs us games.

Hear lots of doom and gloom from dogs supporters but we are on the right path

Brilliantly timed thread Topdog. At the time a few WOOFERS were ready to jump off the Bolte from lack of faith. We are better than our last win. Stick thick.

[bornadog]

Brilliantly timed thread Topdog. At the time a few WOOFERS were ready to jump off the Bolte from lack of faith. We are better than our last win. Stick thick.

Interesting looking at some of the early posts.

[bulldogtragic]

Brilliantly timed thread Topdog. At the time a few WOOFERS were ready to jump off the Bolte from lack of faith. We are better than our last win. Stick thick.

I know right? It's pretty silly. Jumping off the Bolte is only going to break your hip and a bunch of bones, and rack up an unnecessary Citylink toll charge. So don't do it and stick thick, I agree.

[1eyedog]

All I can say is make sure you buy a membership with a Grand Final guarantee cause shits about to get real next year.

[westdog54]

Guys, I hardly think Majak Daw's experience should be the source of jokes.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Guys, I hardly think Majak Daw's experience should be the source of jokes.

I sincerely wish Majak all the best in his recovery. His is one of the most inspiring stories that gives us all hope. The issue has taken the ultimate toll on my family and friends. Personally I have taken a lifetime to realise that depression is cruel but is an illness that at worst goes in cycles and so we recover from it and even have a laugh ourselves and still play footy.

[bulldogtragic]

I sincerely wish Majak all the best in his recovery. His is one of the most inspiring stories that gives us all hope. The issue has taken the ultimate toll on my family and friends. Personally I have taken a lifetime to realise that depression is cruel but is an illness that at worst goes in cycles and so we recover from it and even have a laugh ourselves and still play footy.

Exactly. VicPol took my physical and mental health to the shitter and then cast me out like trash, and I'm lucky compared to dozens and dozens of dead former members. Some limited humour about the general topic is not off bounds, without this there's just the darkness and consequences it. Call it a coping mechanism or desire to reconstruct the issue somewhat. Majak was absolutely not the target or source, hence why he wasn't named. We can go over this, but if we do lets do the entire issue with the lack of any meaningful action across the board within society, including armed forces and emergency services.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Exactly. VicPol took my physical and mental health to the shitter and then cast me out like trash, and I'm lucky compared to dozens and dozens of dead former members. Some limited humour about the general topic is not off bounds, without this there's just the darkness and consequences it. Call it a coping mechanism or desire to reconstruct the issue somewhat. Majak was absolutely not the target or source, hence why he wasn't named. We can go over this, but if we do lets do the entire issue with the lack of any meaningful action across the board within society, including armed forces and emergency services.

I now have so much respect for you both because of you dealing with your experience and knowing the right level of humour to help us with it.

[bulldogtragic]

I now have so much respect for you both because of you dealing with your experience and knowing the right level of humour to help us with it.

You didn't respect me earlier? :D :D

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Yes but not as great as now.