Why is there such a gulf between our best and our worst?

[Dry Rot]

Great wins this season against sides like the Tigers and the Cats, and now this poo today.

It's not the first time, either.

Why is there such a gulf between our best and our worst?

[jeemak]

Great wins this season against sides like the Tigers and the Cats, and now this poo today.

It's not the first time, either.

Why is there such a gulf between our best and our worst?

Because the players think effort and attention to detail with skills and defence is conditional upon who we are playing. The players also lack respect for some opponents and don't understand that every team in the AFL can make them suffer if they refuse to respect them.

As I said in the game day thread this is an extremely unlikeable trait to have in a group of players.

[Ghost Dog]

Because the players think effort and attention to detail with skills and defence is conditional upon who we are playing. The players also lack respect for some opponents and don't understand that every team in the AFL can make them suffer if they refuse to respect them.

As I said in the game day thread this is an extremely unlikeable trait to have in a group of players.

I feel JJ, Dickson, Trengove and Cordy made some terrible errors in the first. That's a leadership issue at that age level.

[Eastdog]

It was a terrible start for us today. We seemed to play catch up all day.

[Dry Rot]

It was a terrible start for us today. We seemed to play catch up all day.

So why do we start so poorly so often?

[Twodogs]

So why do we start so poorly so often?

To paraphrase Groucho Marx-If we knew that we wouldn't need the talcum powder.

[Eastdog]

So why do we start so poorly so often?

It’s a good question Dry Rot. Is it in the mind? I didn’t expect that 1st quarter after Dicko got that first goal. A lot of footy relies on confidence/momentum in games and when you don’t have that then you will get beat by a lot.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Because the players think effort and attention to detail with skills and defence is conditional upon who we are playing. The players also lack respect for some opponents and don't understand that every team in the AFL can make them suffer if they refuse to respect them.

As I said in the game day thread this is an extremely unlikeable trait to have in a group of players.

Bit of a concerning trend. Once, maybe twice in a year? It can happen but 3 off the top of my head (Carlton, GC, Saints) is unforgivable

[LostDoggy]

Winning the inside fifties again suggests our consistent point of failure is our execution into our 50 or our forward setup, we seem flakey in this area, we look great when we nail it but we dominated that 2nd qtr for nothing.

Seems coachable.

[FrediKanoute]

Lack of leadership?
Age of list?
One of those days?

[jeemak]

Bit of a concerning trend. Once, maybe twice in a year? It can happen but 3 off the top of my head (Carlton, GC, Saints) is unforgivable


Lack of leadership?
Age of list?
One of those days?

These are the major reasons I struggle with when it comes to anointing Bont as our next captain. He's a bloody good player and is on the verge of being a great player but he fails to execute in front of goals, and it seems a lot of the time he and his peers within our midfield don't know when it is the right time to go defencive when the patterns show they should.

Our midfield has all the traits of being excellent if they remain disciplined. If they don't they get monstered and beaten on the spread because they aren't quick and in honesty have too much faith in how good they can be which results in them not respecting the opposition. Over time I have thought this to be a maturity issue, but I'm coming around to the prospect of it being a character issue and that really concerns me. They are genuinely blue chip, elite personnel, but I'm afraid they're showing signs of being arrogant and not able to defend in game when needed.

We talk about how good it is to have the likes of Jacko, Bont, and Dunks as massive mids but we struggle with pace and variation. All of these guys need to be at the top of their game if we are to win, and like we saw tonight without Hunter cleaning up and accumulating outside we get exposed. Toby out didn't help, but in reality, we need Richards to come on very quickly or we need to trade some variation in.

[MrMahatma]

Lack of leadership?
Age of list?
One of those days?

I reckon it’s one/all of:

Leadership
Structures that are flakey
An inconsistent spine

[bornadog]

Bit of a concerning trend. Once, maybe twice in a year? It can happen but 3 off the top of my head (Carlton, GC, Saints) is unforgivable

In each of those games we were jumped at the start, 6 goals, 5 goals and 6 goals. Then we decided, oh shit, we should be putting some effort into this.

[GVGjr]

In each of those games we were jumped at the start, 6 goals, 5 goals and 6 goals. Then we decided, oh shit, we should be putting some effort into this.

I'd be 100% certain that Bevo would have made the players aware that the 3 teams were primed to come out with some aggression and yet we never really were up for the challenge. The things we can control like effort and attitude have failed us with obvious tests

[Twodogs]

In each of those games we were jumped at the start, 6 goals, 5 goals and 6 goals. Then we decided, oh shit, we should be putting some effort into this.

"These blokes aren't the duds we thought they were. Maybe we should give them some respect? Oops, too late"

[Bullies]

Winning the inside fifties again suggests our consistent point of failure is our execution into our 50 or our forward setup, we seem flakey in this area, we look great when we nail it but we dominated that 2nd qtr for nothing.

Seems coachable. This also proves that stats are a crock. Yes we can improve our execution but we were flogged all over the ground. Freo had more inside 50's against the Eagles the other week and got beaten by 90 points.

[Mofra]

This also proves that stats are a crock. Yes we can improve our execution but we were flogged all over the ground. Freo had more inside 50's against the Eagles the other week and got beaten by 90 points.
Yep, quality of inside 50s really matters. A bunch of throw ins on the 50m arc give you a congested mess but may count as 3-4 inside 50s.

We are young so it is a contributing factor but not an excuse.
I wonder if we targeted Duryea in the off season as we have had small forwards get ahold of us a few times this year. Walters, Lonie, etc can all do damage to us.

[Topdog]

This also proves that stats are a crock. Yes we can improve our execution but we were flogged all over the ground. Freo had more inside 50's against the Eagles the other week and got beaten by 90 points.

Once the Saints had a 7 goal lead they sat back and killed us on the counter. Stats without context is just useless.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

I think it’s more of a leadership issue. I 100% convinced that if a Hodge, Selwood, Ward, Jones, Kennedy type of player was our captain. These guys would get eyeballed and asked what we’re you thinking. They would set the standard and demand results.

I really think we need to go out headhunt a captain and true leader, overhaul our leadership group and get a couple of Assistant coaches that have some shit about them. Yep we have enough nice guy or people management assistants. Let’s get down and dirty and develop a hard nosed edge to our game.

This was the main grate the power sides like Brisbane lions, then the Hawks and Cats all had in spades.

[AshMac]

We really struggle against teams that burst out of the blocks with aggression. Need to lift that part of our game - agree w have blue chip stock in the center - need to get a bit of mongrel in them to match it.

Comparing this weeks center stoppages to those against the cats and port are light and day. Danger/Kelly/Selwood basically shake hands with Bont/Dunks/Macrae at the start and end of the game. In those situations we work the tap, can feed it out and get a clearance. In short on skill we’re up the top.

The saints, and Melbourne to an extent, play a close checking lock down setup. We struggle to spread and can’t clear the ball. Our head drops, the other team builds momentum and we can’t stem the flow of scoring - or at best can’t stop them scoring so we can run away.

I actually thought we lost the game in our defensive 50 last week. Usually it’s our forward line and inaccuracies - but this week we were pretty good. Not one player - and a couple of good performances - but a lot of fumbles with ball at ground and a lot of too high or too low linking handballs through the middle. Just wasn’t our day and the saints came to play.

[Bullies]

I think it’s more of a leadership issue. I 100% convinced that if a Hodge, Selwood, Ward, Jones, Kennedy type of player was our captain. These guys would get eyeballed and asked what we’re you thinking. They would set the standard and demand results.

I really think we need to go out headhunt a captain and true leader, overhaul our leadership group and get a couple of Assistant coaches that have some shit about them. Yep we have enough nice guy or people management assistants. Let’s get down and dirty and develop a hard nosed edge to our game.

This was the main grate the power sides like Brisbane lions, then the Hawks and Cats all had in spades. We have one in waiting - Bont. Give him the responsibility and you will see this guy go to another level. He should be the Captain now as he a once in a generation player and leader. That was deplorable Sunday when no one stood up to the Saints. You will find from now on sides will be physical with us as they know we don't like it. Bailey Smith was the only one who stood up to their tactics.

[Danjul]

..... We struggle to spread and can’t clear the ball.....

..... but a lot of fumbles with ball at ground and a lot of too high or too low linking handballs through the middle. .

Agree.

One clear distinction between the recent wins and losses has been the way the team used handball.

In the wins the team has set up for a kick as first option. Against Geelong, Wood and McLean(?) both did long kicks to Lloyd when he was 1 on 1 leading to quick goals. Handballs were long, opening up the game.

In the losses the passage through the centre has been rushed or sideways and based on short handball. It drags our players in and allowed the opposition to corral and pressure them, while still leaving one or two runners free. Against the Saints, Macrae and Dunkley handballed 40+ times. Lipinski and Smith also preferred handball. Overall, this worked against us.

[Bullies]

Agree.

One clear distinction between the recent wins and losses has been the way the team used handball.

In the wins the team has set up for a kick as first option. Against Geelong, Wood and McLean(?) both did long kicks to Lloyd when he was 1 on 1 leading to quick goals. Handballs were long, opening up the game.

In the losses the passage through the centre has been rushed or sideways and based on short handball. It drags our players in and allowed the opposition to corral and pressure them, while still leaving one or two runners free. Against the Saints, Macrae and Dunkley handballed 40+ times. Lipinski and Smith also preferred handball. Overall, this worked against us. Just saying but we moved the ball better the last couple of weeks when Daniel was not playing. He seems to halt momentum sometimes when he doesn't give it off at the first option and runs around circles only to give off one of those piddly kicks sideways.

[Ghost Dog]

Just saying but we moved the ball better the last couple of weeks when Daniel was not playing. He seems to halt momentum sometimes when he doesn't give it off at the first option and runs around circles only to give off one of those piddly kicks sideways.

Good observations. I really loved Bonts long raking entries from the square sometimes into the fifty. Mids with that kind of kicking power are worth their weight in gold. Other than that we very often, really make hard work of our goals. That last kick into attack seems to plague us.

[bornadog]

Good observations. I really loved Bonts long raking entries from the square sometimes into the fifty. Mids with that kind of kicking power are worth their weight in gold. Other than that we very often, really make hard work of our goals. That last kick into attack seems to plague us.

Bont really needs to hit a target instead of just slamming the ball on to his foot. He has a beautiful kicking action and the ball must travel 60 metres plus at times. I would love him to come out of the centre with the ball and hit someone on the chest.

[Danjul]

Bont really needs to hit a target instead of just slamming the ball on to his foot. He has a beautiful kicking action and the ball must travel 60 metres plus at times. I would love him to come out of the centre with the ball and hit someone on the chest.

He did that twice in a couple of minutes just before three quarter time against North. We had 2 hitouts to advantage and he was able to run straight.

It was English’s chest. (35 metres out 20 degree angle). He goaled both times.

Then both were taken off and we then lost all momentum.

[Danjul]

Good observations. I really loved Bonts long raking entries from the square sometimes into the fifty. Mids with that kind of kicking power are worth their weight in gold. Other than that we very often, really make hard work of our goals. That last kick into attack seems to plague us.

I am under the impression that most of our entries into the 50 metre arc are close to where it meets the boundaries. We have few players who can consistently goal from there. Unless the ball is in Dickson’s hands another pass is required, and that is the one that often becomes a turnover.

The entries must be quicker, deeper and squarer. On Sunday I saw Dale make good position a number of times early in the game but he was ignored. The same thing happened later when English was positioned 30 metres in front of goal, all the incoming kicks went to the boundary.

[Mantis]

Bont really needs to hit a target instead of just slamming the ball on to his foot. He has a beautiful kicking action and the ball must travel 60 metres plus at times. I would love him to come out of the centre with the ball and hit someone on the chest.

As opposed to our other mids who can be lucky to hit their foot at times?

[Twodogs]

As opposed to our other mids who can be lucky to hit their foot at times?

Didn't Bont miss his foot on the weekend when he marked and went to run into the open goal? Or was that the week before because I have done my best to wipe it from my memory (it's going pretty well as you can see)

[Mofra]

Didn't Bont miss his foot on the weekend when he marked and went to run into the open goal? Or was that the week before because I have done my best to wipe it from my memory (it's going pretty well as you can see)
He rushed to play on (because he's lost confidence in set shot kicking) was tackled and the ball just hit his foot which meant it was play on instead of holding the ball.

[Twodogs]

He rushed to play on (because he's lost confidence in set shot kicking) was tackled and the ball just hit his foot which meant it was play on instead of holding the ball.

Was it against the Saints or was it the week before? I'm thinking it was the week before and the oppo player missed the tackle. He went to wrap Marcus up on the edge of the square but Bont moved and he missed him altogether.

It is the first time I have seen the Bont affected by inferred pressure.

[bornadog]

Was it against the Saints or was it the week before? I'm thinking it was the week before and the oppo player missed the tackle. He went to wrap Marcus up on the edge of the square but Bont moved and he missed him altogether.

It is the first time I have seen the Bont affected by inferred pressure.

Against Melbourne

[Twodogs]

Against Melbourne

The Tackler stumbled and almost fell over and Bont got the ball drop exactly right but then almost forgot that he had to swing his foot at the ball. Ted Whitten probably did something like that once too.

[AshMac]

Just saying but we moved the ball better the last couple of weeks when Daniel was not playing. He seems to halt momentum sometimes when he doesn't give it off at the first option and runs around circles only to give off one of those piddly kicks sideways.

Daniel in the team is an interesting conundrum. We use him to get out of jail, and he often gets the ball under intense pressure. He isn’t quick to release it though - part of his charm at times - and often kicks down the ground to equal pressure. In short - I think we sometimes act too cute deep in defence because we know he can clear the arc.

I thought we looked better down back without him. Freer flowing, better run, more end to end setups. I’d like to see him moved back to that link player on a wing and have him release us 100m out from our goal rather than 5.

[Bulldog4life]

The Tackler stumbled and almost fell over and Bont got the ball drop exactly right but then almost forgot that he had to swing his foot at the ball. Ted Whitten probably did something like that once too.

Nope. Ted would have held the ball up high after he marked then swaggered back and took his time. Then roosted the ball through for a goal.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Daniel in the team is an interesting conundrum. We use him to get out of jail, and he often gets the ball under intense pressure. He isn’t quick to release it though - part of his charm at times - and often kicks down the ground to equal pressure. In short - I think we sometimes act too cute deep in defence because we know he can clear the arc.

I thought we looked better down back without him. Freer flowing, better run, more end to end setups. I’d like to see him moved back to that link player on a wing and have him release us 100m out from our goal rather than 5.

Interesting view. Do you think Daniel would his serve us better on the wing so he delivers into the forward 50. Morris coming back could allow this and if he can set us up with better forward 50 entries Naughton would be licking his lips.

[NoseBleed]

Daniel makes his time by going backwards, into space which he is afforded in the position he plays. Then he uses his ability to kick hard across his body to position when he can.

On the wing he’d need pace he doesn’t posses, and to kick forward. It would waste his skills, and expose him for pace.

[AshMac]

Interesting view. Do you think Daniel would his serve us better on the wing so he delivers into the forward 50. Morris coming back could allow this and if he can set us up with better forward 50 entries Naughton would be licking his lips.

I'd like to see him tried back there, he was absolutely outstanding in 2016 in that linkage role. Having said this, i thought he was suerb again today and added that depth and movement to our backline. We played really well without him too so its a tough call. I dont see his lack of speed being an issue at all - a player with his offball and on ball movement, decision making and skills can clearly compensate for physical deficiencies.