It’s time for the Western Bulldogs to grow up

[Hotdog60]

First things first: the 2016 Western Bulldogs are gone and they aren’t coming back.
The game and the league have changed in the past three seasons, and half of the Dogs’ premiership players have either left or are unlikely to play for the club again.
Too much of the analysis on these Bulldogs is still viewed through the 2016 prism. It’s time for everyone to move on and see them for what they are, and what they could be.

The stars

The Dogs don’t have many A-graders on their list, which is part of the reason they’re stuck in the middle of the ladder. But they do have two bonafide stars.
It’s not difficult to make a case that Marcus Bontempelli is the best player in footy, and his prolific running mate, Jack Macrae, is one of the league’s best second bananas.

The second tier

This is the Bulldogs’ strength, and why when things click they can mix it with just about any side – they’ve beaten three of the current top-four.
Jason Johannisen, Josh Dunkley, Caleb Daniel, Hayden Crozier, Tom Liberatore, Lachie Hunter and Toby McLean are all quality footballers. Sam Lloyd and Taylor Duryea have been smart additions.

Captain conundrum

As one of only two Bulldogs premiership captains, Easton Wood will forever be a legend at Whitten Oval, but Father Time is undefeated, and it appears he’s come for the skipper.
Of 66 players this season who have been involved in at least 30 one-on-one defensive contests, Wood’s loss rate of 39.4 percent is worse than 62 of those players – blimey.

The coach

Luke Beveridge has earned some criticism since the glory of 2016. His regular shuffling of players both on the field and in and out of the 22 over the past three seasons has at times been baffling.
But while criticism is warranted, he has also come up with a plan to put his team in a winning position on many occasions only to be let down by woeful finishing in front of the big sticks.
Sunday’s loss to the Lions was a good example. There’s no shame in a three-goal defeat at the Gabba these days, but if the visitors had made the most of their early chances, it could have been a different game – that’s been a regular theme.

The defence

The Team That Should Be Footscray is far too easy to score against. They’re giving up a goal on 24.9 per cent of opponents’ forward-50 entries.
Some of that is because their aggressive transition game can leave them badly exposed on turnovers, part of that is because their defenders aren’t very good.
Zaine Cordy always seems to be outsized and outclassed, and while Jackson Trengove has been a solid addition to the back six, much of his good defensive work is undone by skill errors and poor decisions.

The future

There’s not a more exciting young prospect in the league than Aaron Naughton. He can be a little shaky in front of goal – it’s the Bulldog way – but he’s special in the air. Naughton is eighth in the league for marks inside-50 this season and has taken more contested marks than anyone. Oh, and he’s still a teenager.
Tim English is starting to look every bit the modern ruckman he was advertised as, and Bailey Smith gives the club the kind of player they’ve been crying out for – an inside midfielder with breakaway speed.
Ed Richards has had a bit of a second-year slump, but still looks a long-term player off halfback or a wing. Josh Schache might never live up the lofty expectations that come with being a No.2 pick, but he should play plenty of footy alongside Naughton and – unlike many of his teammates – is a reliable kick for goal. As are Patrick Lipinski and Bailey Dale, who are both contributing forward of centre.

The now

The finals door is still ajar and if the Dogs can beat the injury-hit Bombers on Saturday night, they’ll nudge it open a little further. It’s a game they should expect to win.

Then what?

There’s a strong foundation here with one gaping hole: they desperately need a quality key defender. That has to be the priority this offseason, and their entire haul of draft picks should be on the table for ready-made players.
We’ve seen how even the league has become; the gap from first to everyone but Gold Coast is pretty slim, but if you don’t step up, you’ll quickly be left behind.
Three years without finals would be tough to swallow, a fourth would be borderline unacceptable.

LINK (https://www.theroar.com.au/2019/08/07/its-time-for-the-western-bulldogs-to-grow-up/)

[comrade]

Pretty accurate. That Easton Wood stat just confirms what a lot on here have been saying.

[bulldogtragic]

Pretty accurate. That Easton Wood stat just confirms what a lot on here have been saying.

I wonder if that stat was instead for Lew Young or Fletch Roberts what the conversation would be. That's a not insignificant stat. Is being the fourth worst across the entire competition for one-on-ones just him slowly adapting to the 6-6-6 rule etc?

But there's enough highlighted talented already with us, that with an aggressive trade period should have us playing finals next year. Hopefully more maturity brings consistency next year, and with a kicking and skills coach and a goal kicking coach we might just get enough reward for effort we are contending.

[kruder]

Pretty accurate. That Easton Wood stat just confirms what a lot on here have been saying. Since 2017....

[GVGjr]

I wonder if that stat was instead for Lew Young or Fletch Roberts what the conversation would be. That's a not insignificant stat. Is being the fourth worst across the entire competition for one-on-ones just him slowly adapting to the 6-6-6 rule etc?



This is the issue I constantly see, stats being used to justify why some players aren't measuring up but we simply won't use the same measures on our captain.

In all honesty though, it's not like his role has really changed that much but I do feel he hasn't adjusted to the 6 6 6 rule change and it's exposed him just a bit as an inconsistent performer when asked to be accountable for his opponent.

[bornadog]

Good summary HD60, it is where we are at. I too think we should be looking forward and stop whining about the past few years.

We have the nucleus to go on and be a force, but we need to plug a few holes as well as hang on to the best players we have.

[Mofra]

Pretty accurate. That Easton Wood stat just confirms what a lot on here have been saying.
I think it is in some ways misleading - how many of those contests would be against players his own height? In the first two rounds he was playing as a KPP despite giving up 12+ cms to every opponent.

[Danjul]

I think it is in some ways misleading - how many of those contests would be against players his own height? In the first two rounds he was playing as a KPP despite giving up 12+ cms to every opponent.

I think it was round 4 when he was selected to play on Cox. That’s more like 25 cm.

And Cordy was the tall backman????

[Rocket Science]

I think it was round 4 when he was selected to play on Cox. That’s more like 25 cm.

And Cordy was the tall backman????

And the domino effect of not having an athletic tall back continues to bite everyone else further down the line and the flow-on effects on our game contingencies.

It's lovely for Bevo to laud blokes willing to do difficult, mismatched jobs but it'd be lovelier when we decide to see what we've got with Lewis Young. I feel like a broken record.

[bornadog]

And the domino effect of not having an athletic tall back continues to bite everyone else further down the line and the flow-on effects on our game contingencies.

It's lovely for Bevo to laud blokes willing to do difficult, mismatched jobs but it'd be lovelier when we decide to see what we've got with Lewis Young. I feel like a broken record.

Lewis played the previous week and there was not one good word from anyone on this forum on how he played against GC and subsequently he was dropped.

Trengove should have played against the Pies, but again, we don't know internally whether he was ready to play.

[Mofra]

Trengove should have played against the Pies, but again, we don't know internally whether he was ready to play.
Trengove was ok in JLT2, albeit in the ruck. He was fit to play,.

[bornadog]

Trengove was ok in JLT2, albeit in the ruck. He was fit to play,.

There must have been a reason we didn't play him.

[azabob]

Good summary HD60, it is where we are at. I too think we should be looking forward and stop whining about the past few years.

We have the nucleus to go on and be a force, but we need to plug a few holes as well as hang on to the best players we have.

The future is unknown, you have to take opportunities when they present.
Over the past few years and particularly this year we have not taken our opportunities.

[bornadog]

The future is unknown, you have to take opportunities when they present.
Over the past few years and particularly this year we have not taken our opportunities.

This year we haven't and should have. With the huge injuries to senior players in the past two years, we really didn't have the cattle on the ground. We never looked like it.

[GVGjr]

I think it is in some ways misleading - how many of those contests would be against players his own height? In the first two rounds he was playing as a KPP despite giving up 12+ cms to every opponent.

It doesn't happen as much as you think but on occassions it does happen. The problem is more that he doesnt have the required skill of someone around 187cm in height.
When we lost to Geelong earlier in the year he was pitted against Gary Rohan early on who out marked him often and kicked a few goals. The height differential was just 2 cm.

[jeemak]

It's the role he plays now that has exposed him. He plays that role because he has to.

He's good at helping out in the air and on the intercept, he's not good at one on one. Funnily, Crozier who now plays Easton's role isn't that flash one on one either but is excellent at helping out in the air - at 185cm. Sure you could choose between the two if we had more cattle, but we don't, so the MC clearly believes having both in the side with Easton playing a modified role is the best scenario.

Both would be victims if played in the role Easton is currently played in, given our poor structure. Not for one moment do I think Easton is playing as well as he has in the past in his favoured position, or as well as he could be in his current role but there's reasons aside from form for that.

He's five centimetres taller than Wallis, four shorter than Jacko and Morris and five shorter than Bont. He is being asked to play out of position week in week out because of personnel constraints - both who we have and who we don't - in a different role often on players who have a height advantage. Teams are also smart enough to exploit it, and that makes it worse.

Those who want more scrutiny on him can suit themselves, he's playing a role that isn't suited to him because he has to. There's genuinely nobody on the list who could do it better. This talk kind of reminds me of the Gia bashing in previous days, a guy plays a role for the club because he's the only one who can and if he didn't the side would be worse for it, but gets kicked in the process.

If it wouldn't be so serious I'd like to see him taken out of the team just to show how much worse it could be. I'd love to see whoever replaces him get into Trengove after stupid free kicks to get him back on track, or into Cordy after his defencive lapses (largely because he's not playing the role Easton currently is - ironically) multiple times throughout games. It would be hilarious.

[bornadog]

It's the role he plays now that has exposed him. He plays that role because he has to.

He's good at helping out in the air and on the intercept, he's not good at one on one. Funnily, Crozier who now plays Easton's role isn't that flash one on one either but is excellent at helping out in the air - at 185cm. Sure you could choose between the two if we had more cattle, but we don't, so the MC clearly believes having both in the side with Easton playing a modified role is the best scenario.

Both would be victims if played in the role Easton is currently played in, given our poor structure. Not for one moment do I think Easton is playing as well as he has in the past in his favoured position, or as well as he could be in his current role but there's reasons aside from form for that.

He's five centimetres taller than Wallis, four shorter than Jacko and Morris and five shorter than Bont. He is being asked to play out of position week in week out because of personnel constraints - both who we have and who we don't - in a different role often on players who have a height advantage. Teams are also smart enough to exploit it, and that makes it worse.

Those who want more scrutiny on him can suit themselves, he's playing a role that isn't suited to him because he has to. There's genuinely nobody on the list who could do it better. This talk kind of reminds me of the Gia bashing in previous days, a guy plays a role for the club because he's the only one who can and if he didn't the side would be worse for it, but gets kicked in the process.

If it wouldn't be so serious I'd like to see him taken out of the team just to show how much worse it could be. I'd love to see whoever replaces him get into Trengove after stupid free kicks to get him back on track, or into Cordy after his defensive lapses (largely because he's not playing the role Easton currently is - ironically) multiple times throughout games. It would be hilarious.

This sums up Easton to a tee.

[Danjul]

Wood is being asked to play out of position week in week out because of personnel constraints - both who we have and who we don't - in a different role often on players who have a height advantage. Teams are also smart enough to exploit it, and that makes it worse.

Those who want more scrutiny on him can suit themselves, he's playing a role that isn't suited to him because he has to. There's genuinely nobody on the list who could do it better. This talk kind of reminds me of the Gia bashing in previous days, a guy plays a role for the club because he's the only one who can and if he didn't the side would be worse for it, but gets kicked in the process.

If it wouldn't be so serious I'd like to see him taken out of the team just to show how much worse it could be. I'd love to see whoever replaces him get into Trengove after stupid free kicks to get him back on track, or into Cordy after his defencive lapses (largely because he's not playing the role Easton currently is - ironically) multiple times throughout games. It would be hilarious.

Cordy is also playing in the wrong position. The backline has done surprisingly well but they operate with no room for error.

There is a 200 cm KPP missing from the backline and that is putting everything out of whack. The problems cascade down to the other end.

[GVGjr]

It's the role he plays now that has exposed him. He plays that role because he has to.



How is the role this year different to last year or the one before that?

Due to the 666 rule he can't zone off as effectively as in previous year

[Cyberdoggie]

I think it is in some ways misleading - how many of those contests would be against players his own height? In the first two rounds he was playing as a KPP despite giving up 12+ cms to every opponent.

Yeah I don't think it's fair to judge him so harshly, sure he hasn't been the leaping leap frog intercepter we have seen in the past, but as Mofra has said he has had to adjust his role.

In 2016 we had Roberts, Hamling, Morris and Adams rotating across those roles, allowing Wood to play his natural role.
In 2019 we have Cordy and Trengove, who are clearly not first choice kpp's. Trengove a backup ruckman/utility, and Cordy a second string defender who is down on confidence due to having to step up to first choice.
Wood has had to do the same and it is affecting his performances no doubt, however I still feel he is being serviceable and if we can get more support back there next year, he might also improve.

[Mofra]

Wood has had to do the same and it is affecting his performances no doubt, however I still feel he is being serviceable and if we can get more support back there next year, he might also improve.
The other issue is that Wood really does rely on his athleticism to compete as an AFL footballer.
When that starts to wane his influence will also wane substantially. There will be a time in 2020 or 2021 where the MC will needs to make a tough call.
I really believe Lachie Young can play more senior football next year. He is still a pup but I like the kid. If we lose both Wood and Suckling that is a lot of experience to lose in one hit though. Makes Trengove & JJ instantly more valuable.

[bornadog]

How is the role this year different to last year or the one before that?

Due to the 666 rule he can't zone off as effectively as in previous year

Whilst I agree to a certain, the 666 is only on for 20 seconds or so and therefore doesn't effect Wood that much.

[mjp]

Lewis played the previous week and there was not one good word from anyone on this forum on how he played against GC and subsequently he was dropped.

Trengove should have played against the Pies, but again, we don't know internally whether he was ready to play.

I don't want to go hunting back through the archives BAD but what I can tell you is that Young needed to be dropped. But not because of his 'defensive' play...but because of his ball us.

He seemed 100% spooked with the ball in hand and simply would not kick it into the corridor...I seem to remember someone referring to a bad turnover from last year or something but there is no doubt it was in his head.

I am personally frustrated that we haven't played Roberts more but I think I am the only one...

[westdog54]

I don't want to go hunting back through the archives BAD but what I can tell you is that Young needed to be dropped. But not because of his 'defensive' play...but because of his ball us.

He seemed 100% spooked with the ball in hand and simply would not kick it into the corridor...I seem to remember someone referring to a bad turnover from last year or something but there is no doubt it was in his head.

I am personally frustrated that we haven't played Roberts more but I think I am the only one...

Fletch himself might be a touch miffed...

[bornadog]

I don't want to go hunting back through the archives BAD but what I can tell you is that Young needed to be dropped. But not because of his 'defensive' play...but because of his ball us.

He seemed 100% spooked with the ball in hand and simply would not kick it into the corridor...I seem to remember someone referring to a bad turnover from last year or something but there is no doubt it was in his head.

I am personally frustrated that we haven't played Roberts more but I think I am the only one...

Don't get me wrong, I agree. He was asked to go back to the VFL and work on it. Still only 20 years old and time is on his side. On Roberts, well I guess he is gonski.

[jeemak]

I don't want to go hunting back through the archives BAD but what I can tell you is that Young needed to be dropped. But not because of his 'defensive' play...but because of his ball us.

He seemed 100% spooked with the ball in hand and simply would not kick it into the corridor...I seem to remember someone referring to a bad turnover from last year or something but there is no doubt it was in his head.

I am personally frustrated that we haven't played Roberts more but I think I am the only one...

I think it was the GWS game in 2017 that got into his head. There was one particular howler where GWS was pressing up and we were kicking it laterally to spread them and he picked one of them out beautifully.

[Danjul]

Yeah I don't think it's fair to judge him so harshly, sure he hasn't been the leaping leap frog intercepter we have seen in the past, but as Mofra has said he has had to adjust his role.

In 2016 we had Roberts, Hamling, Morris and Adams rotating across those roles, allowing Wood to play his natural role.
In 2019 we have Cordy and Trengove, who are clearly not first choice kpp's. Trengove a backup ruckman/utility, and Cordy a second string defender who is down on confidence due to having to step up to first choice.
Wood has had to do the same and it is affecting his performances no doubt, however I still feel he is being serviceable and if we can get more support back there next year, he might also improve.

At the end of 2016 we had two genuine tall players Roberts and Hamling spoiling opposition forwards. They were not trying to accumulate possessions, they knocked the ball down to JJ, Boyd and Biggs who would run and kick up to the centre line quickly. That allowed Cordy, Picken, Smith, Stringer and Dickson to get lots of goals before defenders swamped them. Morris and Wood were able to intercept and even Wood got some goals.

All that system and movement has been lost. I don’t see any of that play these days.

[Danjul]

I think it was the GWS game in 2017 that got into his head. There was one particular howler where GWS was pressing up and we were kicking it laterally to spread them and he picked one of them out beautifully.

Somebody told me Young was playing on Patton that day. If so, it was never going to end well.

[hujsh]

Somebody told me Young was playing on Patton that day. If so, it was never going to end well.
He did and it didn’t

[GVGjr]

Whilst I agree to a certain, the 666 is only on for 20 seconds or so and therefore doesn't effect Wood that much.

I really think the effect is more than 20 seconds but how often did a ball get hacked forward and Wood jump across creating the 3rd man up contest and ultimately win that contest? Now it's 4 players or more competing for the mark and he is substantially less effective.

Nothing has changed in the last 2 years, Crozier, JJ, Daniel and now Duryea typically get the mid sized and smaller opponents and Wood is used as the 3rd tall and we have had that basic set-up albeit with different names over 3 years.

I know it's sort of taboo to suggest that he isn't playing well but to offer up counting spoils as a positive because he can't mark in packs this year as he could in 3rd man contests in previous years is just fluffing around the edges to avoid acknowledging he is no longer as effective. We need to face up to this.
We simply can't play 3 tall defenders as often as we really need because Wood does not have the ball carrying abilities and particularly the skills of Crozier, JJ, Daniel and Duryea.

Why do you think Bevo moved him forward for a few games? In my opinion it was in an effort to revitalise the back line and turn him into a lock down 3rd tall forward.
The games changes every year but I don't think his role has that much, he like many others he just need to adapt to a changing game.

[GVGjr]

I don't want to go hunting back through the archives BAD but what I can tell you is that Young needed to be dropped. But not because of his 'defensive' play...but because of his ball us.

He seemed 100% spooked with the ball in hand and simply would not kick it into the corridor...I seem to remember someone referring to a bad turnover from last year or something but there is no doubt it was in his head.

I am personally frustrated that we haven't played Roberts more but I think I am the only one...

Not own your own there MJP. Roberts has some flaws but we should have used him a lot more. I'd be more than happy to keep him on the list for another season as well.

[1eyedog]

Not own your own there MJP. Roberts has some flaws but we should have used him a lot more. I'd be more than happy to keep him on the list for another season as well.

I can't see him staying I mean why would he? Surely another team will enquire I reckon Essendon will be keen if Daniher gets traded.

[GVGjr]

I can't see him staying I mean why would he? Surely another team will enquire I reckon Essendon will be keen if Daniher gets traded.

Because he genuinely enjoys being at the club. If we put a decent contract in front of him and say he will be picked on his merits then I think he would be interested.

Now if we trade for a Keath or Tomlinson that might change things

[Danjul]

Now it's 4 players or more competing for the mark and he is substantially less effective.

Nothing has changed in the last 2 years, Crozier, JJ, Daniel and now Duryea typically get the mid sized and smaller opponents and Wood is used as the 3rd tall and we have had that basic set-up albeit with different names over 3 years.
.

Because the backline is undersized everyone is attempting to spoil, except for Crozier, whose goal is to take mark of the year.

So (usually) no one takes the mark, and there’s no one to crumb effectively, and there is no runner out wide to receive.

I never saw Boyd and Biggs try to outmark Hamling and Roberts (or Morris or Wood). They had confidence in each other and each had a defined role. And it worked.

The chaos now allows the opposition to get free and kick cleanly in the forward line.

[westdog54]

Because the backline is undersized everyone is attempting to spoil, except for Crozier, whose goal is to take mark of the year.

So (usually) no one takes the mark, and there’s no one to crumb effectively, and there is no runner out wide to receive.

I never saw Boyd and Biggs try to outmark Hamling and Roberts (or Morris or Wood). They had confidence in each other and each had a defined role. And it worked.

The chaos now allows the opposition to get free and kick cleanly in the forward line.

I honestly don't get your dislike of Crozier. That's an absurd criticism.

Crozier's goal is to take A MARK, as evidenced by the fact (since you love numbers so much), that he has the 2nd highest intercept total of all players on our list (Behind Caleb Daniel) and is 4th for contested marks (Behind Naughton, Bontempelli and English, AKA our key forward, our best player and our number 1 ruck). He also has our highest disposal efficiency at 82%.

He's EASILY one of the most courageous players on our list and sits 5th for total one percenters.

[GVGjr]

Yep, Crozier has had an excellent season. He's been a more than solid addition for us

[jeemak]

I really think the effect is more than 20 seconds but how often did a ball get hacked forward and Wood jump across creating the 3rd man up contest and ultimately win that contest? Now it's 4 players or more competing for the mark and he is substantially less effective.

Nothing has changed in the last 2 years, Crozier, JJ, Daniel and now Duryea typically get the mid sized and smaller opponents and Wood is used as the 3rd tall and we have had that basic set-up albeit with different names over 3 years.

I know it's sort of taboo to suggest that he isn't playing well but to offer up counting spoils as a positive because he can't mark in packs this year as he could in 3rd man contests in previous years is just fluffing around the edges to avoid acknowledging he is no longer as effective. We need to face up to this.
We simply can't play 3 tall defenders as often as we really need because Wood does not have the ball carrying abilities and particularly the skills of Crozier, JJ, Daniel and Duryea.

Why do you think Bevo moved him forward for a few games? In my opinion it was in an effort to revitalise the back line and turn him into a lock down 3rd tall forward.
The games changes every year but I don't think his role has that much, he like many others he just need to adapt to a changing game.

How is it taboo when you say it every week? Other posters offer up reasons for it and you choose to ignore them, for instance, they say he's playing deeper than he has previously, Wood himself has said so in direct quotes, but you say it isn't true.

Nobody's saying his form is great, it isn't, but it's serviceable and not to the point where he should be dropped. But, say if he was dropped, who would you have playing in his place and how would it help the team?

[GVGjr]

How is it taboo when you say it every week? Other posters offer up reasons for it and you choose to ignore them, for instance, they say he's playing deeper than he has previously, Wood himself has said so in direct quotes, but you say it isn't true.

Nobody's saying his form is great, it isn't, but it's serviceable and not to the point where he should be dropped. But, say if he was dropped, who would you have playing in his place and how would it help the team?

I've challenged that consistently but even if that is remotely true doesn't he have to adapt like other players have to? If that is the reason for his form then we should be looking at a better replacement,
As for his form being regarded as serviceable don't we need more from a captain? If he wasn't the captain I suspect we might have dropped him on form.

Have a look where he gets the majority of his possessions, and I've watched him closely this season, and it's not like the majority of them they are in the last line of defense

The excuses being offered up for his form aren't accurate in my opinion

[jeemak]

I've challenged that consistently but even if that is remotely true doesn't he have to adapt like other players have to? If that is the reason for his form then we should be looking at a better replacement,
As for his form being regarded as serviceable don't we need more from a captain? If he wasn't the captain I suspect we might have dropped him on form.

Have a look where he gets the majority of his possessions, and I've watched him closely this season, and it's not like the majority of them they are in the last line of defense

The excuses being offered up for his form aren't accurate in my opinion

Of course he does, he just hasn't adapted as well as we'd like. I used the word serviceable because his form has been average. It's neutral, and perhaps we do want better than neutral from our captain but that doesn't mean he should be dropped. At the end of the season do we take the captaincy from him and let him concentrate on his own form as he ages? In my view yes, that would be the best thing for both Easton and the club, but we can't do that now.

Anyway aside from all of that, I'm yet to hear how placing him under more public scrutiny improves us and I'm sure his performances get reviewed without fear or favour each week and he is completely aware of what we want from him. I'm alos yet to hear who replaces him and preforms better in a backline with two very shaky pillars in Trengove and Cordy.

[GVGjr]

Of course he does, he just hasn't adapted as well as we'd like. I used the word serviceable because his form has been average. It's neutral, and perhaps we do want better than neutral from our captain but that doesn't mean he should be dropped. At the end of the season do we take the captaincy from him and let him concentrate on his own form as he ages? In my view yes, that would be the best thing for both Easton and the club, but we can't do that now.

Anyway aside from all of that, I'm yet to hear how placing him under more public scrutiny improves us and I'm sure his performances get reviewed without fear or favour each week and he is completely aware of what we want from him. I'm alos yet to hear who replaces him and preforms better in a backline with two very shaky pillars in Trengove and Cordy.

I think both Roberts and Lewis Young have deserved more of a chance this year especially when opposition teams have gone tall against us. The criticism of Young has been his skill level but is it that much worse than Woods? It's probably not as good but he's quicker and probably close to athletically comparable as Wood but hasn't been given many opportunities. In fairness he didn't make the most of them when he got them. Roberts has been solid and can still play at the senior level.
I suspect Suckling might have been better placed to return to the back half as well. He's quick and of course his kicking skills from the back line would open up opportunities.

[Remi Moses]

Okaaaay , so Crozier is rubbish :rolleyes:

[Mofra]

I think both Roberts and Lewis Young have deserved more of a chance this year especially when opposition teams have gone tall against us. The criticism of Young has been his skill level but is it that much worse than Woods? It's probably not as good but he's quicker and probably close to athletically comparable as Wood but hasn't been given many opportunities. In fairness he didn't make the most of them when he got them. Roberts has been solid and can still play at the senior level.
I suspect Suckling might have been better placed to return to the back half as well. He's quick and of course his kicking skills from the back line would open up opportunities.
Lewis Young is still a work in progress but clearly in the club's plans. He's one month younger than Lachie Young and we're happy to consider him a pup - Lewie is 197/198cm and underdeveloped in a lot of aspects of his play. The fact he's even debuted already is a bonus.

I really want Keath from Adelaide. He intercepts the ball and uses it ok, still inexperienced due to his focus on cricket for so many years. He instantly becomes our no 2 KPD even if it does mean we are faced with making a hard call on whether Wood or Cordy plays as adding Keath means one of them misses out.

[comrade]

Lewis Young is still a work in progress but clearly in the club's plans. He's one month younger than Lachie Young and we're happy to consider him a pup - Lewie is 197/198cm and underdeveloped in a lot of aspects of his play. The fact he's even debuted already is a bonus.

I really want Keath from Adelaide. He intercepts the ball and uses it ok, still inexperienced due to his focus on cricket for so many years. He instantly becomes our no 2 KPD even if it does mean we are faced with making a hard call on whether Wood or Cordy plays as adding Keath means one of them misses out.

I’m still bullish on Lewis Young. His game yesterday was great, 15 marks in swirly conditions. Just needs time.

[GVGjr]

Lewis Young is still a work in progress but clearly in the club's plans. He's one month younger than Lachie Young and we're happy to consider him a pup - Lewie is 197/198cm and underdeveloped in a lot of aspects of his play. The fact he's even debuted already is a bonus.

I really want Keath from Adelaide. He intercepts the ball and uses it ok, still inexperienced due to his focus on cricket for so many years. He instantly becomes our no 2 KPD even if it does mean we are faced with making a hard call on whether Wood or Cordy plays as adding Keath means one of them misses out.

Keath would be a terrific addition for us.
I suspect they would want a first rounder which would be way too much, our second round pick seems about his value but perhaps a sweetener would need to be added

[Danjul]

I honestly don't get your dislike of Crozier. That's an absurd criticism.

Crozier's goal is to take A MARK, as evidenced by the fact (since you love numbers so much), that he has the 2nd highest intercept total of all players on our list (Behind Caleb Daniel) and is 4th for contested marks (Behind Naughton, Bontempelli and English, AKA our key forward, our best player and our number 1 ruck). He also has our highest disposal efficiency at 82%.

He's EASILY one of the most courageous players on our list and sits 5th for total one percenters.

I don’t dislike Crozier. I think he has improved significantly since he joined the team. As I have said a number of times, he tends to run and kick the ball and gives some momentum. All good. And I have the impression that he is more consistent with his games.

But, to ignore the fact that he has made errors is problematic.

Against Fremantle the first time his opponent kicked 5 goals because he attempted to jump over packs too often. That loss might still come back to haunt us.

Early in the season he was also kicking indiscriminately and the ball was turning over too often. One thing I have noticed lately is he is looking up the ground before he kicks and the team keeps possession more. Part of why I said he has improved significantly.

[jeemak]

I don’t dislike Crozier. I think he has improved significantly since he joined the team. As I have said a number of times, he tends to run and kick the ball and gives some momentum. All good. And I have the impression that he is more consistent with his games.

But, to ignore the fact that he has made errors is problematic.

Against Fremantle the first time his opponent kicked 5 goals because he attempted to jump over packs too often. That loss might still come back to haunt us.

Early in the season he was also kicking indiscriminately and the ball was turning over too often. One thing I have noticed lately is he is looking up the ground before he kicks and the team keeps possession more. Part of why I said he has improved significantly.

Crozier is a better kick of the football when players are running forward and into space as hard as they possibly can. The situations in which he gets the footy have been pretty much the same all year, he's just been supported by run up-field to make his long kicking more effective. Our turnaround in form has been largely effort based, both with and without the footy. Effort as you get the footy is now just as important as effort when you don't have it. Running both ways spreads the opposition defence and gives options to players trying to clear the ball, we're much better at that now than we were earlier in the season and as such, a player like Crozier looks much better with how he uses it.

To your other point I'm trying to understand whether the way Crozier and Wood now actually play is instructional or natural to them. Wood in particular is punching the ball more than he used to, while playing deeper, Crozier is the designated interceptor playing higher. If it all comes together it looks great, if not it looks ordinary at times.

[westbulldog]

Crozier would walk into any other team based on his form this year.

[Twodogs]

Crozier would walk into any other team based on his form this year.

More like run and bounce the footy into any other team. Then take a hanger as he walks in the door!