If I was Leon Cameron...

[mjp]

...

1/. De Boer ==> JJ and lives in his pocket. I tell the players that if we go down, we go down based on inside ball NOT outside run. De Boer keeps JJ to < 10 possessions and ZERO running bounces.

2/. Green is PERMANENT i50. He doesn't empty out to defend, he doesn't play mid. He starts 30m out from goal and plays in a 20m2 area from there...and I just tell the team to kick it to him/in his area as often as possible.

3/. Whoever - WHOEVER - gets Young, goes directly to the goal-square and does not pass go. We roll back on Young ALL DAY (no matter what the Dogs do, if Young goes to you, you go to the square) and he is not allowed to play his natural game across half-back. This should leave Crozier responsible for intercept marking AND run (JJ is being taken care of) from behind the footy...basically I dare Beveridge to move another runner (Richards??) back.

4/. I tell Davis to DARE the umpire to play a free-kick. He is told to block Naughton's run at every opportunity - bash into him off the ball, get in his way, force him to lead up the ground ALL DAY. Get him out of scoring range where he creates trouble just by bringing the ball to deck.

5/. Bailey Dale? He goes TO THE GROUND. He goes near the ball? He goes on the ground. He doesn't go near the ball? He goes to the ground. He goes TO THE GROUND. He should have the single most miserable afternoon of any player in the history of every player who has ever had a miserable afternoon.

That's it. We know the other stuff (Giants will win and score from stoppages - Dogs aren't good in this area + of the 3x tall forwards one of them will end up having a good day so that will be that) but I really think there is a series of pretty clear steps the Giants CAN and SHOULD take if they want to win.

[Mofra]

Fair summary - but what can we do to counter it?

The first one seems pretty simple - move JJ, Richards can play behind the ball. On the wing JJ should be able to out-run De Boer at max effort even if de Boer has the aerobic capacity to play with the mids.

The second one is an issue - I'd guess we simply back Duryea in and hope Crozier chops-out across halfback.

Third - good point (if Young plays) but that means we simply have to apply midfield pressure so they just can't get clean ball inside 50. GWS forwardline will almost certainly find one player who gets on top of their opponent.

Forth - Do we decoy Naughton on fact entries? He's done well doing so to allow Bailey Dale to run into space.

Fifth - The resting mid (Bailey Smith, at times Dunkley or Macrae or McLean) or Lloyd simply have to fly the flag. Block, scrag, do whatever to give Dale just half a step of space. He;s on red hot form and is the most likely of our forwards to get separation from his opponent.

[The bulldog tragician]

...

1/. De Boer ==> JJ and lives in his pocket. I tell the players that if we go down, we go down based on inside ball NOT outside run. De Boer keeps JJ to < 10 possessions and ZERO running bounces.

2/. Green is PERMANENT i50. He doesn't empty out to defend, he doesn't play mid. He starts 30m out from goal and plays in a 20m2 area from there...and I just tell the team to kick it to him/in his area as often as possible.

3/. Whoever - WHOEVER - gets Young, goes directly to the goal-square and does not pass go. We roll back on Young ALL DAY (no matter what the Dogs do, if Young goes to you, you go to the square) and he is not allowed to play his natural game across half-back. This should leave Crozier responsible for intercept marking AND run (JJ is being taken care of) from behind the footy...basically I dare Beveridge to move another runner (Richards??) back.

4/. I tell Davis to DARE the umpire to play a free-kick. He is told to block Naughton's run at every opportunity - bash into him off the ball, get in his way, force him to lead up the ground ALL DAY. Get him out of scoring range where he creates trouble just by bringing the ball to deck.

5/. Bailey Dale? He goes TO THE GROUND. He goes near the ball? He goes on the ground. He doesn't go near the ball? He goes to the ground. He goes TO THE GROUND. He should have the single most miserable afternoon of any player in the history of every player who has ever had a miserable afternoon.

That's it. We know the other stuff (Giants will win and score from stoppages - Dogs aren't good in this area + of the 3x tall forwards one of them will end up having a good day so that will be that) but I really think there is a series of pretty clear steps the Giants CAN and SHOULD take if they want to win.

You’re not helping the nerves. Can we hide this post before any of it occurs to Cameron?

[comrade]

You’re not helping the nerves. Can we hide this post before any of it occurs to Cameron?

Or GVG can just edit it and change all the player’s names around.

[Sedat]

When JJ was getting terrorised by taggers he was our only running half back of note. We have better support in this area now than we did in 2017. Still worth doing as I can't see De Boer being successful on any of our big mids (Bont, Macrae or Dunks). Maybe he goes to Hunter to stop the outside link-up from D50 to F50?

[mjp]

You’re not helping the nerves. Can we hide this post before any of it occurs to Cameron?

LOL.

Pretty confident he is a lot smarter than me.

The Giants have been absolutely copping it and last I checked were underdogs against a team that finished below them whilst playing at home. I think we should be preparing for an overtly (overly??) physical contest and am expecting our young players - many of whom have been a key to the 2nd half turnaround and have ZERO finals experience - will be in the gun.

I'm not sure what our MC is planning but vs us I would think understanding that/conceding that Bont/J-Mac/Dunks/Hunter are going to get it 130 times but making sure that NO-ONE ELSE beats me would be the focus...

[Sedat]

The Giants have been absolutely copping it and last I checked were underdogs against a team that finished below them whilst playing at home. I think we should be preparing for an overtly (overly??) physical contest and am expecting our young players - many of whom have been a key to the 2nd half turnaround and have ZERO finals experience - will be in the gun.
I reckon it will be the most brutal of the 4 finals this weekend. Hope we are ready for the onslaught and bring just as much heat to them - the way we bashed into them last time (led by Bont) gives me comfort that we will be ready for the ambush.

[Mofra]

I reckon it will be the most brutal of the 4 finals this weekend. Hope we are ready for the onslaught and bring just as much heat to them - the way we bashed into them last time (led by Bont) gives me comfort that we will be ready for the ambush.
They didn't have Mummy last time, he'll be out for blood. I'm leaning towards bringing Trengove back as he's hard as nails which will be needed.

[The bulldog tragician]

LOL.

Pretty confident he is a lot smarter than me.

The Giants have been absolutely copping it and last I checked were underdogs against a team that finished below them whilst playing at home. I think we should be preparing for an overtly (overly??) physical contest and am expecting our young players - many of whom have been a key to the 2nd half turnaround and have ZERO finals experience - will be in the gun.

I'm not sure what our MC is planning but vs us I would think understanding that/conceding that Bont/J-Mac/Dunks/Hunter are going to get it 130 times but making sure that NO-ONE ELSE beats me would be the focus...

I have been apprehensive all week that we will be ambushed. I'm not sure why we are red hot favourites and that's not just the Tragician/Danny from Droop Street mentality. If the Giants have any pride whatsoever they will hurl everything at us.

Comparatively easy wins such as our last three weeks don't always do a team any favours. In our R22 match against GWS we started as though it was a continuation of the witches hat performance against the Bombres. We were initially taken aback when the Giants came back into the game and it wasn't a cakewalk. As others have pointed out we needed to get physical again (thanks Bont) to get the game on our terms; then they folded, but they will be much stronger this time.

I think they will come out determined to be brutal and our young guys will cop it. I still remember Jezza Cameron jeering in the face of Lewy Young when they smashed us last year. They will seek any opportunity to hurt us and won't be averse to the cheap shot. We need our senior players to stand up so that the younger guys, who won't realise how much more intense a final is, can settle into the tempo.

[Sedat]

They didn't have Mummy last time, he'll be out for blood. I'm leaning towards bringing Trengove back as he's hard as nails which will be needed.
Ageeed. No reason why we can't return the favor (or shop early) and brutalise Whitfield and their other prime movers.

[The Doctor]

They didn't have Mummy last time, he'll be out for blood. I'm leaning towards bringing Trengove back as he's hard as nails which will be needed.

English can run the Mummy off his feet. Mummy has the agility and mobility of a diplodocus so that could be an area of exploitation for us.

Definitely bring back Trengove. He can wait in the goal square for anyone trying to lure Young away from his preferred position. Which means we have the option of sending Cordy forward to accidentally knock over Davis or anyone trying to interfere with Naughton or Dale. Or if it's not working for English then Trengove can go in the ruck, English goes forward, Naughton goes back. We have more options.

If I had one wish. It would be to bring Libba in.

[Bulldog4life]

I have been apprehensive all week that we will be ambushed. I'm not sure why we are red hot favourites and that's not just the Tragician/Danny from Droop Street mentality. If the Giants have any pride whatsoever they will hurl everything at us.

Comparatively easy wins such as our last three weeks don't always do a team any favours. In our R22 match against GWS we started as though it was a continuation of the witches hat performance against the Bombres. We were initially taken aback when the Giants came back into the game and it wasn't a cakewalk. As others have pointed out we needed to get physical again (thanks Bont) to get the game on our terms; then they folded, but they will be much stronger this time.

I think they will come out determined to be brutal and our young guys will cop it. I still remember Jezza Cameron jeering in the face of Lewy Young when they smashed us last year. They will seek any opportunity to hurt us and won't be averse to the cheap shot. We need our senior players to stand up so that the younger guys, who won't realise how much more intense a final is, can settle into the tempo.

Not red hot favourites. Yes favourites at $1.77 while GWS are at $2.05.

[bornadog]

I reckon it will be the most brutal of the 4 finals this weekend. Hope we are ready for the onslaught and bring just as much heat to them - the way we bashed into them last time (led by Bont) gives me comfort that we will be ready for the ambush.

The one thing I like about this new bunch of young players is they have abit of arrogance about them and aren't afraid to stand up for themselves. Bont is no slouch either when it comes to being targeted, just ask Firitto.

Looks like Haynes will be playing as well, so more ammunition for them, but we have to be ready and hold our cool.

[The Doctor]

Of Course we are going to be ambushed. It's finals and we are up against the biggest bunch of flogs in the competition and thats just how it is. Don't like it? We could do a Melbourne and run back down to the bottom of the ladder. We are made of blood and boots and not in focus groups to quote a most magnificent line.

Thankfully, we have a smart coach who dealt with all this in 2016. I'm sure we will be ready.

[Rocket Science]

'I feel sorry for whoever he does get': Giants to unleash de Boer on Dogs midfield
(https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/i-feel-sorry-for-whoever-he-does-get-giants-to-unleash-de-boer-on-dogs-midfield-20190903-p52ngw.html)

Suspect Bont'll gladly put his hand up and invite him over.

[The Doctor]

'I feel sorry for whoever he does get': Giants to unleash de Boer on Dogs midfield
(https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/i-feel-sorry-for-whoever-he-does-get-giants-to-unleash-de-boer-on-dogs-midfield-20190903-p52ngw.html)

Suspect Bont'll gladly put his hand up and invite him over.

like last time, lol!

[ratsmac]

English can run the Mummy off his feet. Mummy has the agility and mobility of a diplodocus so that could be an area of exploitation for us.

Definitely bring back Trengove. He can wait in the goal square for anyone trying to lure Young away from his preferred position. Which means we have the option of sending Cordy forward to accidentally knock over Davis or anyone trying to interfere with Naughton or Dale. Or if it's not working for English then Trengove can go in the ruck, English goes forward, Naughton goes back. We have more options.

If I had one wish. It would be to bring Libba in.

Me too. Libba is a massive out for us IMO. He is built for finals footy. If we get past the Giants we are going to need his hardness around the ball going forward. Spewin he's not available this week.

[AshMac]

Great post, I’d be starting de boer in the middle rather than back line and adapt as the game goes on but JJ is a good call. That article on him suggests maybe they will be creative with him.

We fold every time a team brings intense aggression from the start of a game. Ok if it happens over the game though - hopefully bont firing up last time we played them gives us the spark to feel we can match it.

I’d love nothing more than to see us run out and go at a few of their blokes, Kelly, Whitfield etc, really line them up and come to play. If it turns into a scrap we knock them off their smooth flowing game style.

They’ll do everything possible to stop our run and spread

[Twodogs]

English can run the Mummy off his feet. Mummy has the agility and mobility of a diplodocus so that could be an area of exploitation for us.

Definitely bring back Trengove. He can wait in the goal square for anyone trying to lure Young away from his preferred position. Which means we have the option of sending Cordy forward to accidentally knock over Davis or anyone trying to interfere with Naughton or Dale. Or if it's not working for English then Trengove can go in the ruck, English goes forward, Naughton goes back. We have more options.

If I had one wish. It would be to bring Libba in.

Libba would be huge for us. I'd love to see him up and in Shaw's face.

[Rocket Science]

Libba would be huge for us. I'd love to see him up and in Shaw's face.

An opportune time for the heir apparent to step in.

Bailey Smith come on down.

[Twodogs]

An opportune time for the heir apparent to step in.

Bailey Smith come on down.

Lets hope that Bailey and Tom are sitting in Barker's together drinking coffee this week and talking about how best to upset Heath Shaw.

[Raw Toast]

Good scary thread MJP.

The Giants are thugs, so I think they'll come for us with everything they've got, and agree with Sedat that it's shaping up as the most brutal of the finals. And the umpiring might well matter (they did seem generous to us when we played them a few weeks ago, but I think they're likely to put their whistles away more).

While of course there's a chance that we can't match them and fall away, a couple of things give me some cause for hope. Firstly, I think Beveridge has shown that he can put extra planning time to good use (although we're only 3-2 after a bye with him if you include the elimination final v West Coast, which makes me pause a little).

Secondly, I remember Murphy saying in 2016 that we were very good at being 'on' when it counted, which has been true again recently.

I do find it a bit bizarre that we're favourites, and neither you or I like that. Nevertheless, I see this final as a bonus - of course I want us to smash them any which way, and I hate losing, but if we do lose, I hope that it gives this team a clearer sense of what it will take to win it all (again).

At the same time, I greatly enjoy the idea that we might be a recurring nightmare to them - the team that they think they should beat every time, and often do. Except when it really counts.

[SonofScray]

It's a weird one, we should be expecting everything listed in the OP to take place. We know it's a tough contest in front of us and there is some spice coming our way. I suspect we're good enough, but the margins are real thin. We're going to need to shop early. Might need to break another larynx.

[AshMac]

It's a weird one, we should be expecting everything listed in the OP to take place. We know it's a tough contest in front of us and there is some spice coming our way. I suspect we're good enough, but the margins are real thin. We're going to need to shop early. Might need to break another larynx.

why stop at one. Bring back Redpath for the game, does a Yeates on Dermie to Toby Greene at the first bounce, lines him up from our full forward square. Then turns around and legs it back to the other end and actually punches Davis properly this time taking out cogs and whitfield on the way through

[Mofra]

'I feel sorry for whoever he does get': Giants to unleash de Boer on Dogs midfield
(https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/i-feel-sorry-for-whoever-he-does-get-giants-to-unleash-de-boer-on-dogs-midfield-20190903-p52ngw.html)

Suspect Bont'll gladly put his hand up and invite him over.
I'm still grateful to Firrito for teaching the Bont how to be 'footy tough'.
West talks about how 'Brian Royal taught him.

That one incident where Bonti smothered Firrito's kick then smiled and bumped him was the exact moment in time he transformed into a senior footballer.

[Mofra]

It's a weird one, we should be expecting everything listed in the OP to take place. We know it's a tough contest in front of us and there is some spice coming our way. I suspect we're good enough, but the margins are real thin. We're going to need to shop early. Might need to break another larynx.
Haynes might actually play, he's line ball.

[westbulldog]

1 I am not a fan of people declaring how good De Boer is, he is not within light years of any of our mids.
2. Stop or limit Cameron and Green and the plastics melt.
They are scared of us , NOT us of them.

[Bullies]

Haynes might actually play, he's line ball. Haynes will play. It is their last roll of the dice. The break will help them more than us. They are nearly at full strength. Need to stop Tarranto and Hopper as well. They get off the leash they will hurt you as much as Whitfield. We need to start well and go with them early. We will wear them down with match fitness but if they get a sniff they will be hard to pull back. They are good front runners. They will throw so many cheap shots so we need to be prepared. Mummy will drop knees and use knees to take out as many as he can. I think whoever wins this will make the big dance.

[Flamethrower]

why stop at one. Bring back Redpath for the game, does a Yeates on Dermie to Toby Greene at the first bounce, lines him up from our full forward square. Then turns around and legs it back to the other end and actually punches Davis properly this time taking out cogs and whitfield on the way through

After watching Redpath play for Deer Park, no way he could even catch Toby Greene - he would be lucky to keep up with Mumford. And he will be playing for the Parkers against Altona on Saturday.

Could use Perkins though - he has a 3 week holiday thanks to his liberal use of his fists against Spotswood last week.

Or we could bring in Jordan Sweet to take on Mummy, and Greene, and de Boer, and anyone else who wants to go the knuckle.

[AshMac]

After watching Redpath play for Deer Park, no way he could even catch Toby Greene - he would be lucky to keep up with Mumford. And he will be playing for the Parkers against Altona on Saturday.

Could use Perkins though - he has a 3 week holiday thanks to his liberal use of his fists against Spotswood last week.

Or we could bring in Jordan Sweet to take on Mummy, and Greene, and de Boer, and anyone else who wants to go the knuckle.

am seeing loads of pics on shane biggs insta of red smashing tins.

[Rocket Science]

am seeing loads of pics on shane biggs insta of red smashing tins.

#neverforget

https://i.ibb.co/G7tw141/Screen-Shot-2019-09-04-at-9-25-00-pm.png (https://ibb.co/2qs2L1L)

[Happy Days]

#neverforget

https://i.ibb.co/G7tw141/Screen-Shot-2019-09-04-at-9-25-00-pm.png (https://ibb.co/2qs2L1L)

Hell yeah

[jeemak]

It's a great thing that he and the others have now retired they can actually show their true selves on social media...……..given they have probably all wanted to for a very long time!

We had a bunch of guys that would have been lauded in the anything goes 80's and we were lucky enough to get them all to click for one year when it counted in the modern era.

They've all earned their retirement riches. I hope they don't look back on this time of their lives and regret how much further they might have been able to take themselves.

[bornadog]

It's a great thing that he and the others have now retired they can actually show their true selves on social media...……..given they have probably all wanted to for a very long time!

We had a bunch of guys that would have been lauded in the anything goes 80's and we were lucky enough to get them all to click for one year when it counted in the modern era.

They've all earned their retirement riches. I hope they don't look back on this time of their lives and regret how much further they might have been able to take themselves.

i don’t understand them. The dream job getting paid big dollars to play sport. What I would give to have done that

[Mantis]

i don’t understand them. The dream job getting paid big dollars to play sport. What I would give to have done that

Who's dream job is it though?

It might be yours, but may not be for them.

[bornadog]

Who's dream job is it though?

It might be yours, but may not be for them.

If you play football, you must have had a dream at some stage.

[Sedat]

If you play football, you must have had a dream at some stage.
Dream fulfilled for Biggsy by the looks

[bornadog]

Dream fulfilled for Biggsy by the looks

as I said, I don't get it.

[Bullies]

If you play football, you must have had a dream at some stage. Some people are just talented and get steered in that direction without being given any other opportunity or knowing any better.

[Rocket Science]

In a high-pressure industry where micro-management and relentless hyper-scrutiny are the norm it's unsurprising it produces Biggsy-style outcomes, or Tom Boyd-style outcomes, and so on. I'd imagine the 'dream' gets wrung out of many pretty quickly.

That said Biggsy's doing nothing any garden-variety twenty something isn't doing.

[Twodogs]

Some people are just talented and get steered in that direction without being given any other opportunity or knowing any better.

Nick Kyrios is a prime example. He obviously doesn't like/appreciate/respect tennis but he's bloody good at it. I can see where he's coming from. I was really good at basketball but I have absolutely no regard for the game and think it's a waste of time.

The problem is that people who are no good at it think that being good at it is an end toward itself. They can't understand why you wouldn't want to waste your time doing something that brings you no great enjoyment just because you happen to be good at it, they put themselves in your shoes and resent you for not taking the game seriously. I'm kind of like that with footy. I can't understand why you would knock back a place on an AFL list, I would have happily killed the guy in front of me to get a chance.

[The Underdog]

If you play football, you must have had a dream at some stage.

Most of them don’t play sport. It’s their job. Some love their job. Some don’t.

[bornadog]

Most of them don’t play sport. It’s their job. Some love their job. Some don’t.

Let them work in a factory, or corporate office, or as a tradie for a fraction of the money and see how that goes

[jeemak]

Let them work in a factory, or corporate office, or as a tradie for a fraction of the money and see how that goes

But what if they did that and were happy and progressed through a career they either did vocational training for or went to uni to develop instead of playing football?

What if they didn't do any of that and were just plain happy?

I had absolutely no idea what I wanted to do when I grew up, still didn't through my twenties and a fair chunk of my thirties. I just turned forty and kind of understand what I can do to balance work, education, debauchery (well not so much anymore) and family/loved ones. These guys from their early to mid teens have a path set out for them, they get great education throughout that path but also if they actually make the grade as footballers, but it doesn't mean they are going to be happy once they've made it. For them after retirement early or otherwise they get to do the stuff most people get to do when they're in the late teens and throughout their early to mid-twenties - that is - figure out who they are and what makes them who they are, and hopefully who they want to be.



Anyway, it seems Leon has brought in someone who was almost murdered against us last time and some other elite players. I actually think the Giants will back their game in and not worry about us too much one way or another. Positional match ups and player roles will be important to an extent on Saturday, but in my view not nearly as important as just rocking up and being physical and applying pressure across the ground.

Possibly after half time we'll see some jobs done, depending on how the game has progressed to that point. If I was coaching I'd put someone on Dunkley (De Boer) and ensure whoever is rotating prioritises Macrae and Bontempelli on the next possession out. Limit effectiveness at the source, mitigate damage on the next disposal out and back everyone else in to be more ready than we are.

Try and make JJ and Suckling play as defencively as possible, and when the ball is in our half not get sucked too far up the ground to ensure the release kick can be contested with tall players either in space or over the back.

[bornadog]

But what if they did that and were happy and progressed through a career they either did vocational training for or went to uni to develop instead of playing football?

What if they didn't do any of that and were just plain happy?
.

Thanks Dad :D:D

I do get it, I was always talking from a personal point of view and what I would have loved to have done (if I had talent :) )