3 things that you've learned, finals week one V GWS.

[Twodogs]

I love that we get bonus weeks to share our thoughts.

Tell us three things that you've learned about how the boys looked under finals pressure.

[bulldogtragic]

1. A year without Naughton is going to be hard if it is the ACL. Makes Josh Bruce more important.
2. I can't believed we got smashed, rucked mids, wouldn't stop or slow Whitfield, and allowed them to beat us up.
3. McLean, Bonts & Lippa all missed basic set shots. But we won't fix this for next year either.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

1. A very poor decision not to play Trengrove today as a back up ruck man left us terribly exposed in the midfield
2. We had too many poor players today with a lack of experience, class and pace being shown up
3. Compared to GWS there is an urgent need to recruit more quality players

[The Bulldogs Bite]

1. We were horribly out coached - a real blight on the coaches today.

2. Still a spot for Libba in our side - we weren’t tough enough

3. I’m not convinced we can play the likes of Hayes / West / Dale / Lloyd - not enough pressure and I’m worried 3 of these are
‘Home and away’ players. Too early to tell one West who really was lucky to play today

[Mantis]

1. We were horribly out coached - a real blight on the coaches today.

2. Still a spot for Libba in our side - we weren’t tough enough

3. I’m not convinced we can play the likes of Hayes / West / Dale / Lloyd - not enough pressure and I’m worried 3 of these are
‘Home and away’ players. Too early to tell one West who really was lucky to play today

GWS planned for us, took away our 1 wood (getting the ball to the outside) and we had no response. We tried a few things in the 2nd qtr which helped for 10min, but it was a short term fix... It was a big reality check for the entire group.

And I agree on the last point.. bar West who is just a kid they all need things to be going our way to have an impact. Lloyd has had a good year, but it’s clear to see why he failed to cement a spot with Richmond as they improved.

[MrMahatma]

I learned that being young is cool until a team decides to beat you up and you have no one to fight back.

Also, we don’t have the best midfield in the AFL

[Grantysghost]

GWS planned for us, took away our 1 wood (getting the ball to the outside) and we had no response. We tried a few things in the 2nd qtr which helped for 10min, but it was a short term fix... It was a big reality check for the entire group.

And I agree on the last point.. bar West who is just a kid they all need things to be going our way to have an impact. Lloyd has had a good year, but it’s clear to see why he failed to cement a spot with Richmond as they improved.

Not only that, on the rare occasion we did manage to get it on the outside their pressure on our handball game was so intense we looped them up and made guys stand under them ready to be swamped by a hoard of Giants. Being overly handball happy is something we need to work on I think although Bevo was spruiking with pride staying the course on his game plan whilst others have deviated during the week so I expect it will remain our one wood as you properly put it.
To be fair its worked well second half of season, may just need some tweaks in execution and personnel for upcoming finals.

So 1. No coal face no chance.
2. Handball club post 2016 maybe doesn't stand up to finals pressure
3. Toby Greene is very unlikeable (had to put him in).

[FrediKanoute]

1. The Giants are a good team
2. The Giants are a big bodied mature team
3. The Giants will trouble sides deep into the finals

[ratsmac]

1. Losing to these pricks still hurts. We hurt them in round 22 and they responded like good teams do.

2. Bevo disrespected GWS with the team selection and paid the price. We were too inexperienced and it showed. We probably still would of lost but not like that.

3. Seeing our mids soundly beaten today was a bit of a shock. Wallis and Libba would of been handy to give a bit of physicality back.

[jeemak]

1. When you go into a final you're better off with hard and experienced bodies rather than inexperienced ones on the periphery of the contest, especially if you're not winning at the source (not a MC issue, more so a personnel issue due to injuries and experience)

2. There is definitely a spot for the likes of Libba and Wallis in this team, but who know if they'd have been selected if available

3. Caleb Daniel would have been a lot better off half back than both Duryea and JJ with the ball if he was fit. They were dreadfully exposed and while I think they could do better than they did today, they made the argument for having Caleb there much stronger than it had been these past couple of weeks

Lucky Number 4. The bye cooked us this time around, and benefited our opposition. Nothing will be said about it in the media, compared to how much WCE were mollycoddled after they came 6th and lost to us in 2016 as the form side. It did make a difference, but we needed to be stronger and more prepared for the uplift in capability of our opposition. I don't think we got ahead of ourselves, rather, we learned how much you can have your arses handed to you in an away final if you're not on your game, and hopefully that will be a good thing for us.

[GVGjr]

1 - Footy form can be fickle
2 - We need some muscle and to have a rethink of our approach towards having players that take on a run with or tagging role.
3 - Even after a crushing finals performance I remain very positive towards our chances next season.

[SonofScray]

1. We salvaged a little bit from what was looking like a catastrophic season. The profile of the 22 leaves us susceptible to performances like that. Coaches haven’t managed that risk very well at times and yesterday was an example.

2. The Bob/Wood/Bevo cuddly leadership has its place, but we were bereft of ability to match the dirty footy they confronted us with. We need a capacity to summon some violence. 3 goals and a fight early in the third was the recipe for success.

3. Wood played a very good, captain’s game. Proud of his finish to the season. He can hand over the captaincy if he wants but he showed his true colours when it counted.

[Dancin' Douggy]

1. There is a different set off rules for the Orange filth. They played nasty, dirty, filthy vicious footy.
The umpires allowed them to get away with murder. The constant extra slams into the turf. The constant extra chokes to the necks of players lying down at stoppages. The extra forearm hits into the body and face of players being held down by two or 3 people over and over again at every stoppage.

Kicks, knees, punches etc. All went unpunished.

I predicted the Scum would overdo the fireworks. AND THEY DID!
But the umpires let them. No other final I saw over the weekend had that amount of utter nastiness.
The umpires could have sorted things out right from the start with some reversed decisions and 50's.
But they allowed it to fester.

If that was a suburban, country, or junior game it would NEVER be allowed. People would be jumping the fences.

I hate to think that kids watching that game go home thinking that's how you play footy.

SHAME SHAME SHAME.

2. We went in too young. I was worried when I saw the team sheet.

3. I no longer have a shred of nostalgic warmth left for Leon Cameron. He can ^^%%$#^ off.

[Happy Days]

3. Caleb Daniel would have been a lot better off half back than both Duryea and JJ with the ball if he was fit. They were dreadfully exposed and while I think they could do better than they did today, they made the argument for having Caleb there much stronger than it had been these past couple of weeks


No no G you're mistaken. Caleb Daniel is a bad player and we are better off with him not in the side. Or something like that?

I learned that Bailey Dale is a contract year specialist. Oh no wait I already knew that and I'm so angry at myself for ceding to the idea of him being good. Bitterly disappointing games from him and Lloyd yesterday.

The Giants did exactly what a few on here prognosticated and shook us up from the bounce, and we had no answer for it. We need Libba in the side.

[1eyedog]

No no G you're mistaken. Caleb Daniel is a bad player and we are better off with him not in the side. Or something like that?

I learned that Bailey Dale is a contract year specialist. Oh no wait I already knew that and I'm so angry at myself for ceding to the idea of him being good. Bitterly disappointing games from him and Lloyd yesterday.

The Giants did exactly what a few on here prognosticated and shook us up from the bounce, and we had no answer for it. We need Libba in the side.

Lol did you see our inside 50 count? And the nature of the way it entered? They beat us up everywhere, even JMacs 32 touches were always under pressure and entirely ineffective.

[Happy Days]

Lol did you see our inside 50 count? And the nature of the way it entered? They beat us up everywhere, even JMacs 32 touches were always under pressure and entirely ineffective.

It's true, our midfield got massacred and didn't deal with an insane level of pressure that I didn't think the Plastics had in them.

But our forwards were still big trash. There is still an obligation to try and create chicken salad and they didn't fire a shot.

[Grantysghost]

1. We salvaged a little bit from what was looking like a catastrophic season. The profile of the 22 leaves us susceptible to performances like that. Coaches haven’t managed that risk very well at times and yesterday was an example.

2. The Bob/Wood/Bevo cuddly leadership has its place, but we were bereft of ability to match the dirty footy they confronted us with. We need a capacity to summon some violence. 3 goals and a fight early in the third was the recipe for success.

3. Wood played a very good, captain’s game. Proud of his finish to the season. He can hand over the captaincy if he wants but he showed his true colours when it counted.

Easton remains captain for mine. Really led from the front yesterday and didn't take any sh1t from that Crispr experiment gone wrong Greene.

[Flamethrower]

1. The GWS pregame movies were Blood Sucking Freaks and Texas Chainsaw Massacre.

2. The Dogs pregame movies were The Sound of Music and Bambi.

3. The umps pregame movies were Escape from New York, The Godfather and See No Evil.

[comrade]

1. The GWS pregame movies were Blood Sucking Freaks and Texas Chainsaw Massacre.

2. The Dogs pregame movies were The Sound of Music and Bambi.

3. The umps pregame movies were Escape from New York, The Godfather and See No Evil.

Classic.

[macca]

1. Plastics played filthy rough and physical at the player footy . We need to build our strength there and bridge that GAP being a young team
2. We need a bash and grab ruckman , Ryder if fit would be a good compliment . English was out muscled by Mumford the brute
Trengrove would have matched that . Selection was wrong here I felt .
3: we need a plan b when our outside run is muffled
4. FfS fix our goal kicking . Bonts, McLean , Lippa and DAle set shot misses killed our momentum. We had them on the ropes and those misses were deflating
5. Our players now know what finals footy level is about and they need to step up
6. We need to get more games into Lewis young , and he becomes our KPD .

More than 3 but things to improve on, but tough lessons . Not intended to come across as negative here , but it was a brave effort by the boys for 3 quarters

[westbulldog]

1. We need to recruit a topline KPD or next year is same same and no different. Cordy gets killed by selectors and gets whacked by power forwards.
2. Sweet needs to have a good pre-season to be a ruck back-up or we recruit an experienced ruck.
3. Getting punched hard in the guts doesn't do anyone any good, the Bont copped it from Himmelberg who must get time. One less than stellar game and woofers are into him, bit shallow imo - don't forget that he won the coaches award for the BEST player in the comp.

[Daughter of the West]

1. We were no match for GWS playing filthy. That needs to change over summer - we’ll never be a serious contender if we can be beaten up so easily.

2. The Bulldogs faithful can turn out in force. Despite the result, I was genuinely proud to be in amongst the sea of red, white and blue. And there would have been even more if not for the stupid Sydney winds.

3. Barracking hard for a losing team can still be good clean fun. Props to the group of six guys sitting in the row behind us yesterday, they were making me laugh even when the result was dead and buried yesterday and the kept it G rated.

[Grantysghost]

Easton remains captain for mine. Really led from the front yesterday and didn't take any sh1t from that Crispr experiment gone wrong Greene.

Just read Easton quoted after the game and Toby Greene stomped on his foot. What a guy.

He had an interesting verbal battle with Giants forward Toby Greene throughout the match and he laughed when asked about the interaction between the two.

"He may or may not have stood on my boot," Wood said.

[bornadog]

1. The Coach bashing is bullshit
2. The week off is a momentum killer
3. We will be better next year.

[Bullies]

1. We were no match for GWS playing filthy. That needs to change over summer - we’ll never be a serious contender if we can be beaten up so easily.

2. The Bulldogs faithful can turn out in force. Despite the result, I was genuinely proud to be in amongst the sea of red, white and blue. And there would have been even more if not for the stupid Sydney winds.

3. Barracking hard for a losing team can still be good clean fun. Props to the group of six guys sitting in the row behind us yesterday, they were making me laugh even when the result was dead and buried yesterday and the kept it G rated. They played filthy because we allowed them to. That's what was most disappointing. The more experienced guys never stood up and allowed it to happen. Guys had their heads rubbed in the ground, gang tackled with knees dropped in and blatantly hit but no one jumped in. GWS took advantage of it. Davis/Greene and Mumford certainly let them know it as well. Libber, Biggsy and Clay wouldn't have copped it. That was the difference. We need some hardened players to help some of the kids and protect them.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

1. The Coach bashing is bullshit
2. The week off is a momentum killer
3. We will be better next year.

Nobody is coach bashing but FFS it’s pretty clear we were out coached. It happens.

[GVGjr]

Nobody is coach bashing but FFS it’s pretty clear we were out coached. It happens.

I went though the thread again and I can't see that the coaches have scapegoated. Just doesn't seem to be an accurate observation

[jeemak]

Not sure being outworked, fluffing your lines and not adapting to pressure is the same as being out coached.

To me it wasn’t complicated, and had very little to do with coaching.

[bornadog]

Not sure being outworked, fluffing your lines and not adapting to pressure is the same as being out coached.

To me it wasn’t complicated, and had very little to do with coaching.

Spot on jee

[GVGjr]

Spot on jee

But you said there was coach bashing. Do you stand by that?

[bornadog]

But you said there was coach bashing. Do you stand by that?

Yes..........

[GVGjr]

Yes..........

Can you provide the examples? I can't see them clearly in this thread

[GVGjr]

Not sure being outworked, fluffing your lines and not adapting to pressure is the same as being out coached.

To me it wasn’t complicated, and had very little to do with coaching.

It's good that you often provide the clarity for BAD, Appreciated

[jeemak]

I actually think everyone's been pretty level after such a disappointing loss. Not a lot of bashing of any sort.

[bornadog]

Can you provide the examples? I can't see them clearly in this thread


1. We were horribly out coached - a real blight on the coaches today.

This comment has been made every single game we lose. Fine that is TBB opinion and has every right to think that, and I have every right to express my opinion. But it is just one of many in other threads by some others, but I won't go fishing.

[bulldogtragic]

I've just stumbled into this. I thought the last 24 hours was quite respectful after such a bad loss amongst passionate members who see matters slightly differently. Bomber blitz on Thursday night was 'bashing'.

So far I've read today that there's been 'coach bashing', everyone 'turned on Bonts' and that the forum is 'overreaction central'. I find this all distasteful that the forum and its members are targeted by others for having and expressing their personal perspectives on coaching, Bonts set shot miss 'moment' or whatever led to the overreaction central comment. Toby Greene has been by far and away the most passionate topic. We can all disagree and pull a part the arguments of each other with respect, but if people can't handle reading others posts without calling them bashers, back turners and chronic over reactors then ask how this contributes to the discourse you feel is lacking. Which I haven't seen.

Fu*k Toby Greene.

[jeemak]

It's good that you often provide the clarity for BAD, Appreciated

Ha, it's funny if that's what it seems...…………..he's a big boy and can speak for himself!

[Grantysghost]

Just re coaching I guess "out" coached is hard to gauge, I definitely hate mids rucking and think this to be poor coaching, in which I include selection. Yesterday I thought we struggled with the De Boer tag and Whitfield seemed to do as he pleased without much done. Having said that who knows what's happening in the box so we all speculate, let off steam at times and use the forum to express this.
Legitimate question, do the coaches have a review? Would they make any different decisions on the day or prior in relation to this game? I'm genuinely interested if someone knows cheers!

[bornadog]

Just re coaching I guess "out" coached is hard to gauge, I definitely hate mids rucking and think this to be poor coaching, in which I include selection. Yesterday I thought we struggled with the De Boer tag and Whitfield seemed to do as he pleased without much done. Having said that who knows what's happening in the box so we all speculate, let off steam at times and use the forum to express this.
Legitimate question, do the coaches have a review? Would they make any different decisions on the day or prior in relation to this game? I'm genuinely interested if someone knows cheers!

Forgetting about the dirty tactics of GWS, I just think we were not on our game yesterday, it felt like we were rusty, and the ball just didn't bounce our way. GWS stopped our run and carry with great pressure, and their mature bodies were too strong.

Could we have brought in another player, Trengove, or Dickson, or Williams - I don't think the result would have been much different. The mids were killed and that is our engine room. As for the rucking, well, we were being beaten and we threw in a few guys to try and change things up - not a big deal.

The contested possessions differential was 42 in their favour, they beat us in stoppages, clearances and centre clearances, even though hitouts were only 8 different (our best result for the year)

I am still scratching my head why Wood decided to kick into the wind in the first quarter.

[jeemak]

Wouldn't Wood have been directed to kick that way to start off with?

I think the rucking using midfielders was originally started to break the tag on Bont. It worked well at first so I think that is why it was persisted with.

In hindsight we should have found a spot for Trengove.

[Grantysghost]

Wouldn't Wood have been directed to kick that way to start off with?

I think the rucking using midfielders was originally started to break the tag on Bont. It worked well at first so I think that is why it was persisted with.

In hindsight we should have found a spot for Trengove.

Yes I think that's right re Bont in the ruck. Giants came in with a plan to stop Marcus as a priority, it worked and forced us to change our primary game plan.
I struggled to watch was waiting for Mummy to cave in a Bont rib! It definitely coincided with our best form in the game.

[Vred]

1. Trengove and Dickson should of been in
2. Hayse, West and Young are to green for finals football (although i don't know who'd we'd replace them with)
3. Umpires are nuffties and clearly turned a blind eye to some bad GWS tactics
4. We got outplayed

[jeemak]

Yes I think that's right re Bont in the ruck. Giants came in with a plan to stop Marcus as a priority, it worked and forced us to change our primary game plan.
I struggled to watch was waiting for Mummy to cave in a Bont rib! It definitely coincided with our best form in the game.

Bont was actually really strong in some of the contests as well.

[SonofScray]

One thing I would do differently given the Bont assault and likelihood that other clubs will follow. Should we see that sort of ill spirited effort again:

1. Offer Bont some physical protection. Obvious.
2. Pick out a different opponent, removed from the Bont negation and go postal. I would have started scragging Perryman or one of their no names, thrown him into the fence or something. It'd be a big distraction and shift the focus. The game needed us to hit the scoreboard and then start a proper fight.

[AshMac]

1. We got a little caught up in our game plan and didn’t prepare for the physicality of finals footy.
2. GWS are such an elite team skillswise when they are in - but they have no heart
3. The umpires did not cost us the game, but some of that conduct in the first quarter which wasn’t penalised was disgraceful! Himmelbergs closed fist punch to Bonts chest, greene on bont after the balls dead. It’s disgraceful that wasn’t stamped out. We need to be ready for a physical game.


......

4. Have to find something good, JJs run through the middle in the second quarter was gorgeous

[AshMac]

1. There is a different set off rules for the Orange filth. They played nasty, dirty, filthy vicious footy.
The umpires allowed them to get away with murder. The constant extra slams into the turf. The constant extra chokes to the necks of players lying down at stoppages. The extra forearm hits into the body and face of players being held down by two or 3 people over and over again at every stoppage.

Kicks, knees, punches etc. All went unpunished.

I predicted the Scum would overdo the fireworks. AND THEY DID!
But the umpires let them. No other final I saw over the weekend had that amount of utter nastiness.
The umpires could have sorted things out right from the start with some reversed decisions and 50's.
But they allowed it to fester.

Yes. 100% agree. The umpiring set the tone. There was a moment I knew we’d lost - was second qtr I think, Bailey Smith pulled out of diving for the ball and I thought “that’s it, they’re in our head”

[Bulldog4life]

Just re coaching I guess "out" coached is hard to gauge, I definitely hate mids rucking and think this to be poor coaching, in which I include selection. Yesterday I thought we struggled with the De Boer tag and Whitfield seemed to do as he pleased without much done. Having said that who knows what's happening in the box so we all speculate, let off steam at times and use the forum to express this.
Legitimate question, do the coaches have a review? Would they make any different decisions on the day or prior in relation to this game? I'm genuinely interested if someone knows cheers!

To be fair I even saw Green and a couple of their smaller players do some rucking Gg.

[Mantis]

This comment has been made every single game we lose. Fine that is TBB opinion and has every right to think that, and I have every right to express my opinion. But it is just one of many in other threads by some others, but I won't go fishing.

How about you do?

You're the master at throwing barbs and the allowing others to fight your battles.

The GWS completely shut down our game plan and we seemed powerless to counter it... the decisions made at the selection table (some forced) didn't help our cause.

[GVGjr]

This comment has been made every single game we lose. Fine that is TBB opinion and has every right to think that, and I have every right to express my opinion. But it is just one of many in other threads by some others, but I won't go fishing.

Like players I'm sure coaches have both good days and bad ones. Surely saying that GWS was better prepared at the start of the game or saying that because they jumped us early we weren't prepared as we should have been is a reasonable view?
Now if someone called for Bevo to be sacked that would be in line with 'bashing the coach' but I really don't think what TBB said fits the bashing the coach label.

You're also more than entitled your view but you must know that at times it will be questioned.

[Bulldog4life]

The directive for GWS players to bash our players at all opportunity came from their coach no doubt.

[bornadog]

You're the master at throwing barbs and the allowing others to fight your battles.

Really, I am the master, glad you think so.

Any examples?

[Danjul]

Wouldn't Wood have been directed to kick that way to start off with?

I think the rucking using midfielders was originally started to break the tag on Bont. It worked well at first so I think that is why it was persisted with.

In hindsight we should have found a spot for Trengove.

No it didn’t.

It is pure coincidence that the team kicked 3 goals towards that end. That was the scoring end (20 goals)

Bontempelli had the same number of possessions in both of the first two quarters. 4 in each.

It it took so much out of him that the next two quarters we’re the worst I have seen from him. 5 possessions in the second half.

Dunkley also had less in the second half.

Both would have been better served by using Trengove in the ruck as you say and giving them space to work in.

Hindsight has nothing to do with this one. Trengove was a key element in the win previously.

[bornadog]

No it didn’t.

It is pure coincidence that the team kicked 3 goals towards that end. That was the scoring end (20 goals)

Bontempelli had the same number of possessions in both of the first two quarters. 4 in each.

It it took so much out of him that the next two quarters we’re the worst I have seen from him. 5 possessions in the second half.

Dunkley also had less in the second half.

Both would have been better served by using Trengove in the ruck as you say and giving them space to work in.

Hindsight has nothing to do with this one. Trengove was a key element in the win previously.

Hitouts were only 9 different

[Mantis]

Hitouts were only 9 different

Trengove's work in close would've been very handy.. In our win agaisnt GWS only 3 weeks ago he was crucial in the 2nd half in getting the ball going our way.

We seriously lacked muscle around the ball and whilst Tim was very good at winning first touch he wasn't much value when the ball hit the ground.

[SonofScray]

Jacko is meat. In the scenario we were in I’d want that meat in the grinder, rather than expecting a guy getting tagged and scragged and belted to have to do it all. He could have helped protect the others and do some dirty work right at the coal face. Honestly, he should have been in the squad. Bad call from our selectors.

[Ozza]

1. Although I haven't been that rapt overall with how Libba has been going since 2016 (when playing) - we could have done with him on Saturday. Our inside mids lost their way and were worried about counteracting the tagging & blocking tactics - which I think Libba would have handled better - and well as helping us defend better in the midfield.

2. When St.Kilda went after us physcially a few weeks ago, we didn't handle it well. We didn't handle it again on Saturday.

3. Our half backs have been good this year and a launching pad for our game style at times, but Crozier, Suckling and Duryea were shaky on Saturday. Dropped marks, slipping over, lack of dare by foot. They were under the pump - but I expected they would be better.

[Vred]

Dare I say it, I think Gowers should of been picked over West, we needed tough mungral football to fight GWS and we just didn’t have it on the day

[Remi Moses]

1. We bought a water pistol to a gun fight
2. Trengove and Dickson wouldn’t have made a skerrick of difference
3. There’s toughness and crossing the line and they crossed the line a few times

[S Coast Simon]

unbelievable they were allowed to get away with that shit. The umpires were weak as piss. That was dirty tactics going the man and piling on like that. It’s a penalty in rugby league a F$@@s sake. Totally agree with the different set of rules for the AFL’s own team. Thing I can’t believe is how it has become so obvious they are Struggling to hide it nowadays.

We we got a little ahead of ourselves not playing Trengove and putting a kid with three games in. Mind you his attack on the ball in the air in the flank was a very tough action even though he didn’t quite mark it.

The only blessing out of this is the boys will be hitting the gym just that little bit harder this off season as they won’t want to be pantsed like that ever again. GWS hurt us. Would love to if had M Boyd, Morris and Libby out there. Would have been a little different.

Make Bont the Captain now he will become a colossus as the sole leader of this team. Then Wood can concentrate on returning to his best


1. There is a different set off rules for the Orange filth. They played nasty, dirty, filthy vicious footy.
The umpires allowed them to get away with murder. The constant extra slams into the turf. The constant extra chokes to the necks of players lying down at stoppages. The extra forearm hits into the body and face of players being held down by two or 3 people over and over again at every stoppage.

Kicks, knees, punches etc. All went unpunished.

I predicted the Scum would overdo the fireworks. AND THEY DID!
But the umpires let them. No other final I saw over the weekend had that amount of utter nastiness.
The umpires could have sorted things out right from the start with some reversed decisions and 50's.
But they allowed it to fester.

If that was a suburban, country, or junior game it would NEVER be allowed. People would be jumping the fences.

I hate to think that kids watching that game go home thinking that's how you play footy.

SHAME SHAME SHAME.

2. We went in too young. I was worried when I saw the team sheet.

3. I no longer have a shred of nostalgic warmth left for Leon Cameron. He can ^^%%$#^ off.

[Danjul]

Hitouts were only 9 different

As has been discussed many times, there are hitouts and there are HITOUTS.

I thought English played very well and it was probably his best game.

Trengove would have put more pressure on the opposition rucks when he gave English a break. He would have provided flexibility when Naughton went down. The last quarter was our worst and a rampaging big man on the forward line might have distracted the GWS backline enough to give the small guys some relief.

overall though, I think the game should prove valuable in showing how to make next season better than this one. There’s a lot of talent and now the appropriate people have something to think about.

[bornadog]

As has been discussed many times, there are hitouts and there are HITOUTS.

I thought English played very well and it was probably his best game.

Trengove would have put more pressure on the opposition rucks when he gave English a break. He would have provided flexibility when Naughton went down. The last quarter was our worst and a rampaging big man on the forward line might have distracted the GWS backline enough to give the small guys some relief.

overall though, I think the game should prove valuable in showing how to make next season better than this one. There’s a lot of talent and now the appropriate people have something to think about.

I agree, I would have played Trengove and in hindsight Gowers instead of West, who was best on the ground against Willi. As Vred said, at least those two have some muscle and wouldn't hold back.

I guess the MC thought, these players have been playing well and beaten a few teams over the past few weeks, so no need to change.

[Grantysghost]

We shall never know, and if we did play them and the result was the same I'm pretty certain the commentary would've been we shouldn't have played them.
Personally I think Jackson should never have been dropped, and the timing was a bitter blow to a guy who left nothing behind when given the chance. The measure of the man was how he went back to Footscray and worked his ar5e off to try and push back in. These are the guys we want at our club, and how lucky we are to have them and not schwein like Greene.

Bring on 2020 (well the B and F first :cool:)

[Mitcha]

Dare I say it, I think Gowers should of been picked over West, we needed tough mungral football to fight GWS and we just didn’t have it on the day
Wow, can't believe that one, Gowers is all bluff, West has already shown more ticker in three games than anything Gowers has ever done

[1eyedog]

We shall never know, and if we did play them and the result was the same I'm pretty certain the commentary would've been we shouldn't have played them.
Personally I think Jackson should never have been dropped, and the timing was a bitter blow to a guy who left nothing behind when given the chance. The measure of the man was how he went back to Footscray and worked his ar5e off to try and push back in. These are the guys we want at our club, and how lucky we are to have them and not schwein like Greene.

Bring on 2020 (well the B and F first :cool:)

I'd swap Trengove for Greene. Opposition supporters used to feel the same way about Libba Snr.

[bornadog]

I'd swap Trengove for Greene. Opposition supporters used to feel the same way about Libba Snr.

I wouldn't, he is a complete nut. Have you seen the things he has been charged for? Spitting, kicking, headbutting, punching, and now what he did to Bont, let alone his off field violence. He has serious anger management issues.

Sorry no time for a player like that, and who cares about his talent.

[Vred]

I wouldn't, he is a complete nut. Have you seen the things he has been charged for? Spitting, kicking, headbutting, punching, and now what he did to Bont, let alone his off field violence. He has serious anger management issues.

Sorry no time for a player like that, and who cares about his talent.

Id stop supporting the dogs if we ever, ever picked up Green or Shaw.

[Happy Days]

Yeah I used to love King Tobes but the eye gouging has lost me.

[Danjul]

Greene’s behaviour is a distraction. It was to be expected and the team selection should have built in a counter strategy (if we had the option available).

Time to look ahead. What did we learn that will make next year better?

We need more options to cover in-match developments. English not winning ruck, Bont being targeted unfairly. Naughton going down, opposition forward getting 25 possessions. These suggest we need to go in with at least one extra taller and stronger body.

An running intercept CHB would make a big improvement in my opinion. The present style is too static, relying on spoiling- which does nothing to remove the pressure from the defenders in a final.

And a kicking coach. I thought there was a big difference in the kicking skills on Saturday. Probably the reason the forwards couldn’t get into the game.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

I agree, I would have played Trengove and in hindsight Gowers instead of West, who was best on the ground against Willi. As Vred said, at least those two have some muscle and wouldn't hold back.

I guess the MC thought, these players have been playing well and beaten a few teams over the past few weeks, so no need to change.

Finals are a different proposition and in the heat of the battle we missed the hardness and experience of the likes of Liberatore, Dickson, Daniel and Wallis, who were all unavailable. The team was too inexperienced to handle the extra pressure exerted by GWS, who given the concessions granted by the AFL are a talented unit. Trengrove needed to be played given the inexperience and lack of support for Tim English.

[bornadog]

Greene’s behaviour is a distraction. It was to be expected and the team selection should have built in a counter strategy (if we had the option available).

Time to look ahead. What did we learn that will make next year better?

We need more options to cover in-match developments. English not winning ruck, Bont being targeted unfairly. Naughton going down, opposition forward getting 25 possessions. These suggest we need to go in with at least one extra taller and stronger body.

An running intercept CHB would make a big improvement in my opinion. The present style is too static, relying on spoiling- which does nothing to remove the pressure from the defenders in a final.

And a kicking coach. I thought there was a big difference in the kicking skills on Saturday. Probably the reason the forwards couldn’t get into the game.

Based on stats, and before Saturday, we are ranked number one for effective disposals, and second for Disposal Efficiency

[Mofra]

1. We can be as terrible as any side in the competition when we're not switched on. It cost us games against Carlton and Gold Coast, and cost us dearly against GWS.

2. Intangibles matter, especially mongrel. We need a little more to really be a threat. Libba?

3. Even during the flogging, green shoots emerge. Cordy took charge, Rhylee doesn't mind the hard stuff, and English could be the most unique player in the competition in time.

[Twodogs]

Based on stats, and before Saturday, we are ranked number one for effective disposals, and second for Disposal Efficiency

What's our goalkicking/conversion like BAD?

[Eastdog]

Based on stats, and before Saturday, we are ranked number one for effective disposals, and second for Disposal Efficiency

Pre finals. Finals is high pressure and we couldn’t get that game going unfortunately. They missed quite a lot of shots but we couldn’t take advantage of that - had a comeback in the latter part of the 2nd term but that was it.

[bornadog]

What's our goalkicking/conversion like BAD?

Second half, brilliant :D

[Danjul]

Based on stats, and before Saturday, we are ranked number one for effective disposals, and second for Disposal Efficiency
As I said, from the TV there seemed to be a big difference between the two teams when it came to using the ball by foot.

The Giants had long low trajectory kicks and were quickly putting the ball in the target’s hands so they didn’t have to break step.

Our guys had much shorter floating kicks and went wider to someone stationary in the clear. ( but often covered by the time the ball arrived)

Both rate highly for efficiency but one approach won the game. Over the break ours need to inject more penetration.

It’s true, The Dogs have been a better kicking team in the second half of the year, and their improvement has led to success. But they lacked confidence on Saturday and, in my opinion, went back to handball as their preference.

[bornadog]

As I said, from the TV there seemed to be a big difference between the two teams when it came to using the ball by foot.

The Giants had long low trajectory kicks and were quickly putting the ball in the target’s hands so they didn’t have to break step.

Our guys had much shorter floating kicks and went wider to someone stationary in the clear. ( but often covered by the time the ball arrived)

Both rate highly for efficiency but one approach won the game. Over the break ours need to inject more penetration.

It’s true, The Dogs have been a better kicking team in the second half of the year, and their improvement has led to success. But they lacked confidence on Saturday and, in my opinion, went back to handball as their preference.

Saturday we lost the plot.

I was responding to your post about getting a kicking coach for next season

[Dancin' Douggy]

I'd swap Trengove for Greene. Opposition supporters used to feel the same way about Libba Snr.

I wouldn't want Greene in a million years. His very presence makes me feel ill. I can't even watch giants games anymore. The twisted little worm should be in prison.

[Danjul]

Saturday we lost the plot.

I was responding to your post about getting a kicking coach for next season
Replay that game ( with the same players) and the result will be the same 9 out of 10 times.

There were glaring differences between the teams and, to me, an important one was the foot skills. Both reluctance to kick and quality of a kick.

That is where I want to see an improvement next year. Everything else I can live with.

Macrae, Dunkley, Hunter and Lipinski were very good at getting the ball but none kicked more than handball.

Richards, Hayes, West had 8 kicks and over 20 handballs between them.

Whereas for the Giants their best four players each had more than 2 kicks per handball. And most of the team prefers to kick. Huge benefits from that style of play. If we learn that mindset finals appearances are guaranteed next year.

Suckling and Duryea: 32 kicks and 8 handballs. Might be the Hawthorn philosophy.

[Mofra]

Replay that game ( with the same players) and the result will be the same 9 out of 10 times.

There were glaring differences between the teams and, to me, an important one was the foot skills. Both reluctance to kick and quality of a kick.

That is where I want to see an improvement next year. Everything else I can live with.

Macrae, Dunkley, Hunter and Lipinski were very good at getting the ball but none kicked more than handball.

Richards, Hayes, West had 8 kicks and over 20 handballs between them.

Whereas for the Giants their best four players each had more than 2 kicks per handball. And most of the team prefers to kick. Huge benefits from that style of play. If we learn that mindset finals appearances are guaranteed next year.

Suckling and Duryea: 32 kicks and 8 handballs. Might be the Hawthorn philosophy.
They shut down the space so our mids couldn't kick it. That was the plan, and they executed it well. The kicks our mids did get were under pressure which leads to lower efficiency.

Makes no sense to compare the kick/handball ratios to two defenders who can rebound in space to that of mids in the centre.

[Danjul]

They shut down the space so our mids couldn't kick it. That was the plan, and they executed it well. The kicks our mids did get were under pressure which leads to lower efficiency.

Makes no sense to compare the kick/handball ratios to two defenders who can rebound in space to that of mids in the centre.

It is two separate statements. No comparison intended. I like Duryea because he always looks for a kicking target, Suckling usually does too.

But as you rightly pointed out, a significant portion of the team was devoid of any idea of how to get into a position to kick well. They proved the way they used handball isn’t enough. That is part of why the Giants went on to be more dominant in the second half (+70 possessions). Another thing to brainstorm during the break.

[Bullies]

It is two separate statements. No comparison intended. I like Duryea because he always looks for a kicking target, Suckling usually does too.

But as you rightly pointed out, a significant portion of the team was devoid of any idea of how to get into a position to kick well. They proved the way they used handball isn’t enough. That is part of why the Giants went on to be more dominant in the second half (+70 possessions). Another thing to brainstorm during the break. I also think we were very much intimidated. As much as we expected GWS to come out hard I think the ferocity of their attack both at the man and the ball may have shocked a few. It was a level that most of the team would not have seen before. This pressure and perceived pressure then resulted in turnovers and panic.

[S Coast Simon]

I used to play footy in WA with a bloke they nick named SKILLS. He was a beautiful kick on both feet. (Sublime skills). Apparently he was a terrible kick and had a really crazy ball drop till he did this drill. He showed me his method and it the most basic and simple method you can imagine. It teaches ball drop and placement on the boot. It works and is very simple to do. Would desperately love to be able to pass it on to the doggies. It seems to simple but I know they don’t do it as they all have their own version of ball drop and kicking style. Send the worst kick in the team to Brisbane for a week and I will pass it onto them

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

I also think we were very much intimidated. As much as we expected GWS to come out hard I think the ferocity of their attack both at the man and the ball may have shocked a few. It was a level that most of the team would not have seen before. This pressure and perceived pressure then resulted in turnovers and panic.

The attack appeared mainly to be focused on Bontempelli who lacked the desired support that the toughness and experience of a Liberatore Dickson or Wallis would have provided. Macrae Dunkley Hunter and Maclean good as they have been are hardly physical players to meet fire with fire when the occasion required it.

[AshMac]

I wouldn't want Greene in a million years. His very presence makes me feel ill. I can't even watch giants games anymore. The twisted little worm should be in prison.

I get the emotion, but you can’t honestly suggest you wouldn’t want Greene over Trengove running around for us?

[GVGjr]

I get the emotion, but you can’t honestly suggest you wouldn’t want Greene over Trengove running around for us?

I could probably say yes but I do agree with your sentiment. We've accepted players who push the edge before and held them in high regard.

[bornadog]

I could probably say yes but I do agree with your sentiment. We've accepted players who push the edge before and held them in high regard.

It's not just players that push the edge when it comes to Greene. He is a dirty little slime, and I wouldn't want him anywhere near our club.

[MrMahatma]

I get the emotion, but you can’t honestly suggest you wouldn’t want Greene over Trengove running around for us?

I could. I think the culture at our club now essentially would mean Greene wouldn’t get a gig. Forget ability, he’s a dirty player.

[1eyedog]

I'd back Bevo in to turn him around. Was Libba Snr a cleaner player? Did you love him or would you like to see him in jail? Comments above are ridiculous, Greene would make us immeasurably better. He's had his off-field dramas but all that looks to be behind. A strong culture backed by a strong leader would keep him inline on the field. Anyway moot point we'd never get him.

[Twodogs]

I'd back Bevo in to turn him around. Was Libba Snr a cleaner player? Did you love him or would you like to see him in jail? Comments above are ridiculous, Greene would make us immeasurably better. He's had his off-field dramas but all that looks to be behind. A strong culture backed by a strong leader would keep him inline on the field. Anyway moot point we'd never get him.

Yep, I'd have him. He would make us a much better team.

[AndrewP6]

It's not just players that push the edge when it comes to Greene. He is a dirty little slime, and I wouldn't want him anywhere near our club.

Agreed, 100%

[Twodogs]

It's not just players that push the edge when it comes to Greene. He is a dirty little slime, and I wouldn't want him anywhere near our club.

Saying that he plays on the edge is insulting to players who go out every week and put their heads over the footy and try to win it fairly.

[bornadog]

Saying that he plays on the edge is insulting to players who go out every week and put their heads over the footy and try to win it fairly.

Libba plays on the edge, but is not a dirty player - Greene is.

[AndrewP6]

If ever there came a dark day that the Western Bulldogs took that slime in as one of our own, I'd seriously reconsider my membership and support of the club. We don't have scumbags like him.

[Max469]

If ever there came a dark day that the Western Bulldogs took that slime in as one of our own, I'd seriously reconsider my membership and support of the club. We don't have scumbags like him.

My membership would be gone if we ever considered this scumbag and I have seen some dirty players in my time. Doesn't need to do all the I am tough stuff as he is actually a very good footballer. Scumbag all the same.

[chef]

If we accepted Big Bad Baz i dont see why we wouldnt Greene.

[AndrewP6]

If we accepted Big Bad Baz i dont see why we wouldnt Greene.

Baz admitted his shortcomings. Grub doesn't think he is doing anything wrong. Vastly different people.

[azabob]

If we accepted Big Bad Baz i dont see why we wouldnt Greene.

And Akermanis.

[chef]

Baz admitted his shortcomings. Grub doesn't think he is doing anything wrong. Vastly different people.

Seem like similar scum bags to me, Barry was a bigger 'thug' than Greene IMO. Didnt he get sacked recently for a disgusting comment?

[GVGjr]

If we accepted Big Bad Baz i dont see why we wouldnt Greene.

Spot on, not only did we accept Baz, he was revered for his toughness.
Many fans are fickle with their standards once a player arrives at the club, one years bad boy will quickly become a fan favourite if they win a game or two

[AndrewP6]

Seem like similar scum bags to me, Barry was a bigger 'thug' than Greene IMO. Didnt he get sacked recently for a disgusting comment?

Disagree, completely different people. As I've said, Hall admitted wrongdoing, Grub thinks he's fine. Yes, it was a stupid comment, and Hall was the scapegoat for the whole room full of idiots (including the guy who started the discussion, about his own wife.)

[AndrewP6]

Spot on, not only did we accept Baz, he was revered for his toughness.
Many fans are fickle with their standards once a player arrives at the club, one years bad boy will quickly become a fan favourite if they win a game or two

Nope. Hall's transgressions never occurred at our club, he owned up to all of them, and worked hard to turn himself around. Grub kicks people in the face, gouges people in the face, and shrugs his shoulders smugly.

[chef]

Nope. Hall's transgressions never occurred at our club, he owned up to all of them, and worked hard to turn himself around. Grub kicks people in the face, gouges people in the face, and shrugs his shoulders smugly.

Barry king hits people and does the same. Didn't he even do it to Chris Grant of all people?

Hall is from a family of thugs(rumour is the Hall family scared the Hells Angels out of town) and I was lucky enough to see him play from Broadford in the KDFL playing under age football, he made Greene look like a saint. I really don't get the difference apart from one wearing our colours at some stage.

[AndrewP6]

Barry king hits people and does the same. Didn't he even do it to Chris Grant of all people?

Hall is from a family of thugs(rumour is the Hall family scared the Hells Angels out of town) and I was lucky enough to see him play from Broadford in the KDFL playing under age football, he made Greene look like a saint. I really don't get the difference apart from one wearing our colours at some stage.

I don't deal in rumours, and the Hall family isn't the discussion here. As I've already said, he owned up to his transgressions, I can't see Grub doing the same. I've explained the difference as I see it, no point going over it again.

[GVGjr]

Barry king hits people and does the same. Didn't he even do it to Chris Grant of all people?

Hall is from a family of thugs(rumour is the Hall family scared the Hells Angels out of town) and I was lucky enough to see him play from Broadford in the KDFL playing under age football, he made Greene look like a saint. I really don't get the difference apart from one wearing our colours at some stage.

He's hardly been a model player, commentator or citizen for that matter. Good on him for trying to turn things around but...
While I'm no fan of Greene if some are going to look at Hall's career in splendid isolation then surely Greene should be given a bit more time to turn things around himself

[chef]

He's hardly been a model player, commentator or citizen for that matter. Good on him for trying to turn things around but...
While I'm no fan of Greene if some are going to look at Hall's career in splendid isolation then surely Greene should be given a bit more time to turn things around himself

Yeah, it does seem a bit selective to me.

I'd be fine with us picking up Greene if Bevo thought it was a good idea and would support him as I did Bazza(even though I never warmed to him)

[AndrewP6]

Whatever. I'm out,as I would be if we ever stooped so low to get Grub a spot at the Kennel.

[GVGjr]

Yeah, it does seem a bit selective to me.

I'd be fine with us picking up Greene if Bevo thought it was a good idea and would support him as I did Bazza(even though I never warmed to him)

I don't want Greene because he's a dickhead and we have done a good job of avoiding those types in recent years but I do think many would accept him if he was somehow to arrive
I'm pretty confident we won't have to cross that bridge anyway

[GVGjr]

Whatever. I'm out,as I would be if we ever stooped so low to get Grub a spot at the Kennel.

You might never but I suspect that in time some would come around
I'll always endeavor to put my affiliation with the club over any dislike for players

[Dancin' Douggy]

I get the emotion, but you can’t honestly suggest you wouldn’t want Greene over Trengove running around for us?

Honestly

[1eyedog]

He's a heart and soul player. FWIW his team mates love him.

[bornadog]

He's a heart and soul player. FWIW his team mates love him.

because they are either thugs or wannabe thugs

[bornadog]

Disagree, completely different people. As I've said, Hall admitted wrongdoing, Grub thinks he's fine. Yes, it was a stupid comment, and Hall was the scapegoat for the whole room full of idiots (including the guy who started the discussion, about his own wife.)

completely agree with this. Besides Barry admitted what he did and promised the dogs he would behave, and he did.

Until now, the game has been cleaned up over the past 10 years. What Greene has done, two weeks in a row is one of the lowest gutless acts you can do. I don’t care how good he is.

[soupman]

Forgot about Barry Hall, but what a great example.

So Barry Hall, who was an absolute thug who should have missed a grand final for his actions, infamously whacked an unsuspecting Staker and had numerous on and off field indiscretions that could have all had huge ramifications for victims and their lives (seriously read his book, horrific) is fine to play for us because as he approached the end of his career he apologised and promised to behave, which he kind of did (Scott Thompson incident and radio comments aside), is fine to play for us.

Tony Liberatore, who had dirty incidents including scratching/clawing and a ing hit on Knights which was apparently now only "opportunistic" is a club legend and hero.

I don't want Greene, but based on the above as long as he apologises later in his career and makes a few promises to be good he is fine to come across. Lets face it the main reason we hate him is because a lot of his more prominent incidents came against us, not other teams.

[chef]

So if Toby makes a few dodgy promises about never ever doing it again like Barry did(even though he did do it again in our colours cough 'Scott Thompson' cough) we'd all be fine with it.

[AndrewP6]

Comparing Hall putting Thompson in a headlock to Grub kicking people and gouging their eyes is complete nonsense.

[hujsh]

Comparing Hall putting Thompson in a headlock to Grub kicking people and gouging their eyes is complete nonsense.

That was post coming down. Really it's eye gouging vs the hit on Staker and/or Grant.

Less clear cut then isn't it?

[Bulldog4life]

Barry king hits people and does the same. Didn't he even do it to Chris Grant of all people?

Hall is from a family of thugs(rumour is the Hall family scared the Hells Angels out of town) and I was lucky enough to see him play from Broadford in the KDFL playing under age football, he made Greene look like a saint. I really don't get the difference apart from one wearing our colours at some stage.

Barry wears a nice earring.

[AndrewP6]

That was post coming down. Really it's eye gouging vs the hit on Staker and/or Grant.

Less clear cut then isn't it?

Not really, Hall never denied doing those things. Grub thinks he’s completely innocent.

[comrade]

Barry was pretty contrite and knew he had massively effed up. Greene is a sociapath with no regard for his opponents or remorse for his actions - the last 2 weeks are just further proof and will just continue to do thuggish **** until he retires. Then he’ll likely go on to bash more security guards when he’s a washed up has been.

[Rocket Science]

He's a heart and soul player. FWIW his team mates love him.

Reckon this holds about as much water as his captain and coach trotting out the rote good bloke defence in the past week. They'd be pretty used to it by now.

[chef]

That was post coming down. Really it's eye gouging vs the hit on Staker and/or Grant.

Less clear cut then isn't it?

Yep, whats worse a coward punch or an eye gouge.

Im happy to say they're both thug acts and they (Greene and Hall) are as bad as each other no matter what colours they wear.

[Jam Donuts]

Spot on, not only did we accept Baz, he was revered for his toughness.
Many fans are fickle with their standards once a player arrives at the club, one years bad boy will quickly become a fan favourite if they win a game or two
Some of us fans may have short memories or are too young to vividly remember some of our "past Toby Greenes", how about Libba Senior, Terry Wheeler, Tits Kennedy, Critter Kretiuk, Ron McGowan, Super MacPherson, even our heroes Charlie and EJ, and many more, every era of football clubs have players who play to the edge and at times cross over and we were no exception, look at Hawthorn in the 80's, tough hard and over the line for sure, but did they intimidate opposition and win finals, of course they did, it seems essential to have a couple of hard nuts in your team and I for one would welcome him to our club, it is also essential to get our youngsters into the gym and get them built up big and strong, the difference in size is plainly visible when the teams are running out onto the ground, you do not have to sacrifice speed for more muscle mass, and it stops you being knocked out of the contest or off the chase for the ball.

[Grantysghost]

Kretiuk punching Matthew Lloyd's injured hand was an interesting one. He was a reasonably fair player in general though.

[bornadog]

You can't compare players of the past to now, the game is different and has been cleaned up.

There is still the odd dickheads like Hawkins and Greene. The things that happened on field in the past were horrendous.

[Jam Donuts]

You can't compare players of the past to now, the game is different and has been cleaned up.

There is still the odd dickheads like Hawkins and Greene. The things that happened on field in the past were horrendous.

I will compare who and when and how I want, are you the resident know all Nazi? The fact of the matter is that we have had players who stepped over the line on many occasions, regardless of eras or differences in games, why are people getting on their high horses about Hawkins and Greene now, accept them for what they are, and hopefully the AFL will actually stop protecting their love child and start throwing the book at him, but do not try and tell me our club is innocent and would not accept Greene playing for us, that is a load of cobblers.

[bornadog]

I will compare who and when and how I want, are you the resident know all Nazi? The fact of the matter is that we have had players who stepped over the line on many occasions, regardless of eras or differences in games, why are people getting on their high horses about Hawkins and Greene now, accept them for what they are, and hopefully the AFL will actually stop protecting their love child and start throwing the book at him, but do not try and tell me our club is innocent and would not accept Greene playing for us, that is a load of cobblers.

No need for this bullshit mate.

For starters, I wasn't directing anything at you and secondly it was my opinion on different eras of football.

FMD

I think you need to edit your comments.

[dukedog]

You can't compare players of the past to now, the game is different and has been cleaned up.

There is still the odd dickheads like Hawkins and Greene. The things that happened on field in the past were horrendous.

Has Tom Hawkins been a player who has habitually stepped over the line? I thought he has been pretty genuine... agree with greene... the guy is a dipshit. He gets away with it and doesn't learn a lot.... they should make a statement.

[bornadog]

Has Tom Hawkins been a player who has habitually stepped over the line? I thought he has been pretty genuine... agree with greene... the guy is a dipshit. He gets away with it and doesn't learn a lot.... they should make a statement.

Read this:


Hawkins had enjoyed an exemplary disciplinary record for most of his 256-game career but the two-time premiership star has now run foul of the match review process nine times since the 2016 season. He's been charged with striking six times and been suspended for a total of six matches, including his latest ban.

[Bulldog Joe]

I think those stats on Hawkins are actually a little skewed by the jumper punch fiasco, where he was almost the scapegoat for a change on something that had been previously overlooked.

It also included a dead set dive by King of Divers (current), Phil (falling leaves) Davis.

Hawkins has never been a sniper like Greene and most of the incidents involving Hawkins have been minor and incidental. I can't recall Hawkins causing any serious injury to an opponent.

[bornadog]

I think those stats on Hawkins are actually a little skewed by the jumper punch fiasco, where he was almost the scapegoat for a change on something that had been previously overlooked.

It also included a dead set dive by King of Divers (current), Phil (falling leaves) Davis.

Hawkins has never been a sniper like Greene and most of the incidents involving Hawkins have been minor and incidental. I can't recall Hawkins causing any serious injury to an opponent.

No one said he was a sniper, he just punches players in the face, that is why he has 6 suspensions. I said he was another thug and I stand by it. A jumper punch is a punch with a fistful full of jumper, but still a punch

[Twodogs]

No one said he was a sniper, he just punches players in the face, that is why he has 6 suspensions. I said he was another thug and I stand by it. A jumper punch is a punch with a fistful full of jumper, but still a punch

That one that Hawkins got reported for on the weekend was so unnecessary. It reminded me of that Simpsons episode where Bart starts swinging his arms and walking across the room and telling Lisa that if she gets in the way then it's her fault.

[SonofScray]

Kretiuk punching Matthew Lloyd's injured hand was an interesting one. He was a reasonably fair player in general though.

He was slaughtered in the media for it. Yet, now it's accepted as part of the game apparently.

[chef]

He was slaughtered in the media for it. Yet, now it's accepted as part of the game apparently.

Not really, Charlie Cameron got protection the other night.

[Twodogs]

I got talking to Steve Kretiuk one night at a footy club function. That final where Ablett kicked 5 on him in the first quarter-the first contest for the ball Ablett swung his fist at Kritter's face and ended up wedging his eyeball just under his eye socket and he couldn't see a thing for the whole of the first quarter. How do you continue when something like that happens?