Josh Bruce 2019

[bulldogtragic]

The rumours still seem strong about our interest in Josh, and the likely scenario a pick for him picks St Kilda up Zak Jones (as they only have picks 5 & 55 of note and Freo demanding pick 5). Ratten is going to play and is playing 'he's contracted' but we all know what's going on.

Looks like a good trade target and we've done the need to find a replacement for Tom Boyd and Redpath. I was flicking through Twitter today looking for any Josh Bruce info. He came 9th in their B&F this year I found out. Also he meets the 'decent human' test as per the Twitter link. It's going to be a hard trade to accept if you are these guys, or we've got new members?

https://twitter.com/shaebee22/status/1040905312503390208?s=21

[GVGjr]

While the Saints should expect something decent from us to let a contracted player like Bruce go, his trade value will decline significantly in 12 months time if he isn't traded this year.

This has a but to play out but I like our chances of getting hm across to the Kennel

[Twodogs]

The rumours still seem strong about our interest in Josh, and the likely scenario a pick for him picks St Kilda up Zak Jones (as they only have picks 5 & 55 of note and Freo demanding pick 5). Ratten is going to play and is playing 'he's contracted' but we all know what's going on.

Looks like a good trade target and we've done the need to find a replacement for Tom Boyd and Redpath. I was flicking through Twitter today looking for any Josh Bruce info. He came 9th in their B&F this year I found out. Also he meets the 'decent human' test as per the Twitter link. It's going to be a hard trade to accept if you are these guys, or we've got new members?

https://twitter.com/shaebee22/status/1040905312503390208?s=21


That letter Josh wrote to Flynn is outstanding.

[bulldogtragic]

That letter Josh wrote to Flynn is outstanding.

I wasn't sure what he'd say in it before looking at the close up of the letter, or if it would be a PR copywriter. But I thought it was brilliant too. Empathic, very human and not at all talking down to the kid or dismissing his anxiety. He might have a career in footy welfare. Seems like a good fit for the group and club on this small sample. I hope off the back of that Flynn got back into playing sport. And becomes a Western Bulldogs junior member when Josh comes across.

[Mofra]

I'm keen, but then again I have a real dislike for defenders marking the ball against our forwards. He is a genuinely good contested mark and really flies at the ball when given a chance.

[AshMac]

I thought I read that the saints would be ok if we parter w a late second round pick. Either way, I don’t see it being done for much more. Think he’s worth more, but if he wants out there is something there and as soon as it’s called by the player it seems to kill leverage of the team trading the player.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I still don't get why they're happy to let him go. King is unproven and still years off, McCartin is long odds to return or male the grade and Ryder who they are after is cooked / not that great of a forward.

Seems a real dumb move but I'm really hoping we cash in here, would be a terrific fit for us

[comrade]

I still don't get why they're happy to let him go. King is unproven and still years off, McCartin is long odds to return or male the grade and Ryder who they are after is cooked / not that great of a forward.

Seems a real dumb move but I'm really hoping we cash in here, would be a terrific fit for us

He's not really going to be part of their next finals tilt, he has value and they have no picks between 5 and 55.

[Happy Days]

I was not a fan of this move initially but that was mostly for feared cost; getting it done for a pick in the thirties is a fantastic outcome.

[ratsmac]

I still don't get why they're happy to let him go. King is unproven and still years off, McCartin is long odds to return or male the grade and Ryder who they are after is cooked / not that great of a forward.

Seems a real dumb move but I'm really hoping we cash in here, would be a terrific fit for us

True. I'm miffed to why they (seem to be) are happy to let him go. If there something we need know about him that we don't?

[bulldogtragic]

True. I'm miffed to why they (seem to be) are happy to let him go. If there something we need know about him that we don't?

Nah. They traded their 2nd & 3rd rounders last year. To get the 4-5 targets they want they need to trade a player that can get a second rounder. Bruce gets tham Zak Jones from Sydney and frees up extra salary cap for them. Nothing to much to it beyond the obvious. He’s not shopping himself around & Saints aren’t actively shopping him. Ralphy says if not to the dogs he stays. Seems we sensed an opportunity and took it. Bruce gets more years on good money. Everyone gets something.

[bulldogtragic]

From Sunday Herald Sun tomorrow (story up online):

“A second-round draft pick is expected to be the main plank in a trade for the 24-year-old (Zak Jones)

While St Kilda does not hold a pick in the second or third rounds, it should receive a selection around that mark when goalkicker Josh Bruce is traded to Western Bulldogs.”


Not even in debate apparently.

[Doggy]

From Sunday Herald Sun tomorrow (story up online):

“A second-round draft pick is expected to be the main plank in a trade for the 24-year-old (Zak Jones)

While St Kilda does not hold a pick in the second or third rounds, it should receive a selection around that mark when goalkicker Josh Bruce is traded to Western Bulldogs.”


Not even in debate apparently.

Welcome to the Western Bulldogs Josh Bruce

[bulldogtragic]

Welcome to the Western Bulldogs Josh Bruce

HF: Schache Bruce McLean/Richards/Cavarra/Greene
F: Lloyd Naughton Dale

Maybe more trades to come. Good entries and we keep the high scoring game from the back half of the year.

[KT31]

Won't believe it until He is in our jumper.

[bulldogtragic]

Won't believe it until He is in our jumper.

Aaron Naughton following Bruce on Instagram this week doesn't sway you? :D

[1eyedog]

Aaron Naughton following Bruce on Instagram this week doesn't sway you? :D

Not really he could just be following the news.

[bulldogtragic]

Not really he could just be following the news.

With Wingard last year, Instragram stuff means less than nothing.

[Doggy]

Stevo on Channel 7 just said Bruce has one foot in the door at Whitten Oval and the trade will happen.

[Twodogs]

Won't believe it until He is in our jumper.

These are exactly the sorts of second tier trades we tend to get done. They might not get you articles in the paper along with pictures of recruiting managers holding their latest catch aloft and claiming they have won trade period but they do win you games and even premierships.

[1eyedog]

Bruce will be good for us.

[G-Mo77]

Won't believe it until He is in our jumper.

Same. Seen it all before, media guy says it's a lock then he gets traded somewhere else, happens more often than it should. I'll follow him on Twitter/Instagram when or if it happens.

[bulldogtragic]

Out the door at St Kilda. Though only four St Kilda players this year polled more votes than him.

[bornadog]

Same. Seen it all before, media guy says it's a lock then he gets traded somewhere else, happens more often than it should. I'll follow him on Twitter/Instagram when or if it happens.

Agree, need the signature

[bulldogtragic]

On an extra plus for this deal, it rules out some silly trade for Josh Jenkins and his significant salary. A Win-win-lose for Adelaide. Good stuff.

[bulldogtragic]

The Hun:

Josh Bruce (St Kilda)

Lock him in at the Dogs now that St Kilda has secured Patrick Ryder, likely on a deal of four years. He gets security, the Dogs get a foil for Aaron Naughton, the Saints get a pick to secure Zak Jones.

[bulldogtragic]

I've been digging into Josh's career stats to really understand what he's done to date, and ended up doing some player comparisons. I've got three KPF comparisons to date:

Charlie Dixon (traded for pick 10 and a fair bit more)
Sam Reid of Sydney (was talk of trade last contract for a first rounder)
Joe Daniher (probably traded for a top 10 puck this year)
---------------
Josh Bruce (looking like traded for pick 30)

Bruce might not play like, or have the public profile of the above players. But these career comparisons demonstrate Bruce' performances/career statistical averages are akin to Daniher, Reid & Dixon. Not only are we paying a fraction of the first rounders price tags, it seems like we are trying to acquire the same forward impact for less in trades and wages. I'm not sure if 'Moneyball' encompasses a four year $600,000 contract, but it should. The pleasantly surprising comparisons, remembering Bruce played three seasons as a defender:

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?playerStatus1=A&tid1=16&playerStatus2=A&tid2=6&type=A&pid1=3771&pid2=3804&fid1=C&fid2=C

Joe Daniher


https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?playerStatus1=A&tid1=16&playerStatus2=A&tid2=17&type=A&pid1=3771&pid2=3381&fid1=C&fid2=C

Sam Reid


https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?playerStatus1=A&tid1=16&playerStatus2=A&tid2=14&type=A&pid1=3771&pid2=3612&fid1=C&fid2=C

Charlie Dixon

[bulldogtragic]

Super Footy (Herald Sun) just posted a screen shot of social media of Josh Bruce following Aaron Naughton (in return from Naughts doing it last week).

[choconmientay]

I've been digging into Josh's career stats to really understand what he's done to date, and ended up doing some player comparisons. I've got three KPF comparisons to date:

Charlie Dixon (traded for pick 10 and a fair bit more)
Sam Reid of Sydney (was talk of trade last contract for a first rounder)
Joe Daniher (probably traded for a top 10 puck this year)
---------------
Josh Bruce (looking like traded for pick 30)

Bruce might not play like, or have the public profile of the above players. But these career comparisons demonstrate Bruce' performances/career statistical averages are akin to Daniher, Reid & Dixon. Not only are we paying a fraction of the first rounders price tags, it seems like we are trying to acquire the same forward impact for less in trades and wages. I'm not sure if 'Moneyball' encompasses a four year $600,000 contract, but it should. The pleasantly surprising comparisons, remembering Bruce played three seasons as a defender:

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?playerStatus1=A&tid1=16&playerStatus2=A&tid2=6&type=A&pid1=3771&pid2=3804&fid1=C&fid2=C

Joe Daniher


https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?playerStatus1=A&tid1=16&playerStatus2=A&tid2=17&type=A&pid1=3771&pid2=3381&fid1=C&fid2=C

Sam Reid


https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?playerStatus1=A&tid1=16&playerStatus2=A&tid2=14&type=A&pid1=3771&pid2=3612&fid1=C&fid2=C

Charlie Dixon
Are you giving them ideas.... ?

This will end up on Twitter or in the paper and the aints would want a lot more than ... pick 30 ;)

[bulldogtragic]

Are you giving them ideas.... ?

This will end up on Twitter or in the paper and the aints would want a lot more than ... pick 30 ;)

Um. These are all doctored and false. Ignore me.

[bulldogtragic]

Mark Stevens on Twitter just now:

Josh Bruce has a 4 year deal at the Dogs ready to go, and is keen to move to kennel. All that has to be done is a deal in trade week ... @7NewsMelbourne

[Bulldog4life]

Mark Stevens on Twitter just now:

Josh Bruce has a 4 year deal at the Dogs ready to go, and is keen to move to kennel. All that has to be done is a deal in trade week ... @7NewsMelbourne

I like it.

[bornadog]

Mark Stevens on Twitter just now:

Josh Bruce has a 4 year deal at the Dogs ready to go, and is keen to move to kennel. All that has to be done is a deal in trade week ... @7NewsMelbourne

Lets do it - pick 30, done

[chef]

Its going to take a better pick than 30.

[GVGjr]

Its going to take a better pick than 30.

Any reason why you think that?

[Twodogs]

He's nominated us so I reckon 30 will get it done. They will want more but we won't want to give it to them and that's more important I reckon.

[comrade]

He's nominated us so I reckon 30 will get it done. They will want more but we won't want to give it to them and that's more important I reckon.

I can see us giving up 12 for Keath and Adelaide's 2nd (mid 20s) and on trading that pick to the Saints, which effectively makes it pick 12 for Keath & Bruce. Seems fair enough.

[Twodogs]

I can see us giving up 12 for Keath and Adelaide's 2nd (mid 20s) and on trading that pick to the Saints, which effectively makes it pick 12 for Keath & Bruce. Seems fair enough.

Yep, I'd do that.

[chef]

Any reason why you think that?

They'll want a better deal than that thats all, as comrade has mentioned pick 12 will come into play to make both deals work.

[Remi Moses]

They’ll want a better deal , but I think we hold the upper hand

[GVGjr]

They'll want a better deal than that thats all, as comrade has mentioned pick 12 will come into play to make both deals work.

They will want pick one but when you won't commit to a player beyond next season it reduces your options. Even if we gave them a better pick Sydney will just want it for Zak Jones. I'm just not sure pick 31 needs to be sweetened

[bulldogtragic]

My view (before compo):

Pick 12 for Keath & 21 (13 for 24)
Pick 21 (Pick 24) for Bruce

Keath & Bruce for our first rounder is a good outcome. A second rounder and three 3rd rounders still in the bank with $700,000 that Martin rejected. All before the start of trade week. Awesome position to find themselves.

Remember, Melbourne, Hawthorn & St Kilda pursued Keath. When Bruce' name got publicly floated, Hawthorn pursued Bruce. Both players see something at the club (beyond money).

[chef]

They will want pick one but when you won't commit to a player beyond next season it reduces your options. Even if we gave them a better pick Sydney will just want it for Zak Jones. I'm not sure pick 31 needs to be sweetened

If we can manage to get pick 21 from Adelaide i think Saints would be happy with that.

[bulldogtragic]

They will want pick one but when you won't commit to a player beyond next season it reduces your options. Even if we gave them a better pick Sydney will just want it for Zak Jones. I'm not sure pick 31 needs to be sweetened

After compo, if we use 12 with Adelaide, it's looking after compo at maybe pick 24 or pick 33 in our bank. I have no issue with either pick, ideally the least value. But we should be the opposite of Essendon and everything I hate about Dodoro. If a player commits to us in the media, we should try to facilitate it as quick and responsibly as possible. I want players to know if the nominate us we get it done respectfully, not drag it out to the last hour, of the last day of the trade period. If they take 33 good, if the demand is 24 then agree with an exchange of third rounders next year.

The good thing is that we can do both trades. An exciting time for everyone who loves this club and wants to see us back playing this weekend, next year.

[bulldogtragic]

From SEN:

Matthew Lloyd believes the acquisitions of Josh Bruce and Alex Keath for the Bulldogs will go a long way to helping them climb the ladder in 2020.

Both have requested trades to Whitten Oval and the former Essendon captain believes Bruce is an excellent partner for rising forward Aaron Naughton.

“Naughton has been surrounded by the likes of Sam Lloyd and Tory Dickson, but suddenly Josh Bruce comes around,” Lloyd told Telstra’s Trade Radio.

“Josh Schache was getting a game, but probably wasn’t doing enough, whereas Bruce can kick his five or six goals. Schache is more a two or three player on his best day.

“Bruce, Naughton and Schache all move around the ground pretty well. I’ve seen Bruce relieve in the ruck a little bit as well, but I’d like to see him just stay in the forward line and help Naughton.

“It’s a good sign for the Dogs. They finished the year really strongly and could be a real bolter with those two in their team.

“To me they are both very good footballers. Suddenly Alex Keath goes down there, they’ve been undersized, so bringing him back in there and Easton Wood can become that intercept player.”

As for the St Kilda side of things, Lloyd can understand why they’d be okay moving away from Bruce.

“There’s a boy by the name of Max King that is coming. He is a super player. He’s the best junior forward I have ever seen, I was fortunate enough to coach him for a number of years,” he said.

“He’s your traditional ‘I can throw you out of the way’ type of forward. He can do it on the lead, he can sit on heads, he’s 201cm.

“So they’ve got a forward line of King, you’ve got Tim Membrey as the number one forward, Paddy McCartin is still in the wings, Josh Battle in defence who can always go forward.

“Bruce got an offer he couldn’t refuse at the Bulldogs so he goes and they know King is to come in and possibly they’ll work on Ben King for the year after.”

...........

Kind of positive, although clearly Lloyd wasn't watching Schache after his recall at all.

[soupman]

Cannot believe we will probably get him for a pick in the late 20s.

A contested marking, not past it, 2 goal a game key forward with no off field issues for a pick that is maybe a 30% chance of finding an AFL level player. Draft picks are insanely overrated.

[choconmientay]

From the AFL Trade Talk
KEY SAINT TOLD TO LOOK ELSEWHERE
St Kilda champion Nick Dal Santo says key forward Josh Bruce was told in an exit meeting that he would not be offered a contract extension despite kicking 36 goals this year. The 27-year-old has significant interest from the Western Bulldogs and Dal Santo believes a four-year offer has been tabled by the Bulldogs for the tall forward. Bruce has one year left on his contract at St Kilda, but the club is happy to move him on in order to try and bring in Bradley Hill, Zak Jones, and Paddy Ryder.

So they pushed him out with a year on his contract. Pick 31 would get it done?

[bulldogtragic]

From the AFL Trade Talk

So they pushed him out with a year on his contract. Pick 31 would get it done?

Yesterday I would've said no. But with this coming out, it's a chance of Pick 31. Or even Pick 31 an upgrade of their 55 into our 49.

Got to send a fruit basket to Dal Santo.

[azabob]

Why are they pushing Bruce out?
I’m not buying the Max King development angle.
This will be the second club he’s moved on from.

[bulldogtragic]

Why are they pushing Bruce out?
I’m not buying the Max King development angle.
This will be the second club he’s moved on from.

They simply don't have enough picks to pull off their desired trades this year, and need to keep picks next year for an attempt at Ben King. Bruce gets them a good (maybe not as good now) second round pick, which they think they can cover.

Ameet Bains identified him and traded for him from GWS, and has been involved in now getting him from St Kilda. He's passed the Bevo & Power interview. He's a solid person and good player.

St Kilda list management seems the problem for St Kilda.

[Happy Days]

Why are they pushing Bruce out?
I’m not buying the Max King development angle.
This will be the second club he’s moved on from.

Are they pushing him out, or does he want to leave because they're a terrible club with a terrible culture, and they're just saying they're pushing him out because they don't want anyone considering crossing over to realise they're a terrible club with a terrible culture?

[choconmientay]

Why are they pushing Bruce out?
I’m not buying the Max King development angle.
This will be the second club he’s moved on from.

He moved away from GWS for more game time. Played only 14 games in 2 seasons with them.

With the Saints, maybe he was trying to secure a longterm contract after a great season and only one year to go on his current contract (That is the sweet spot to negotiate) but they didn't want to offer that to him and we were willing?!

If he suits our needs, past history with moving clubs may not count as much.

[GVGjr]

Why are they pushing Bruce out?
I’m not buying the Max King development angle.
This will be the second club he’s moved on from.

There could very well be something to this but I do think clubs are happy to move on contracted players when they don't see them in the longer term. If they were to wait 12 months to trade him they wouldn't get much in return
The fact that they want Zac Jones more means Bruce is a bit surplus to their needs next year

[bornadog]

There could very well be something to this but I do think clubs are happy to move on contracted players when they don't see them in the longer term. If they were to wait 12 months to trade him they wouldn't get much in return
The fact that they want Zac Jones more means Bruce is a bit surplus to their needs next year

I still think, if you rate a player, you don't try and push them out.

[Remi Moses]

I think they’re in getting the other king as well
Going to be interesting, seems Dal Santo’s done is a favour

[FrediKanoute]

I can't see the GCS King leaving. If I had to be honest I see the reverse, the Saints King moving up North. The concessions that the AFL have just handed GCS will make it easier/more attractive over the next few years. Much willl depend on Ratten and how he relates to the players.

[Mofra]

I can't see the GCS King leaving. If I had to be honest I see the reverse, the Saints King moving up North. The concessions that the AFL have just handed GCS will make it easier/more attractive over the next few years. Much willl depend on Ratten and how he relates to the players.
The King boys were St Kilda fans as kids and grew up around the Moorabbin area. I can't see Max heading North at all.

[chef]

The King boys were St Kilda fans as kids and grew up around the Moorabbin area. I can't see Max heading North at all.

They also spent time at the Saints.

[westdog54]

Kind of positive, although clearly Lloyd wasn't watching Schache after his recall at all.

Or in Round 2 where he kicked 4 against Hawthorn and earned a Brownlow vote.

But apparently on his 'best day' he gets two or three.

[GVGjr]

I still think, if you rate a player, you don't try and push them out.

Are they pushing him out? He's contracted and asked for a long term extension and they didn't see him in that way.
He has them shopped himself around and we've jumped at that option

The same applies to Alex Keath who wanted a long term deal from the Crows and having been burned by the useless Gibbs the Crows are gun shy on a 4 year deal on a player who's 28 next year and only has one very good year of footy behind him

I don't for one minute think Keath has been pushed out it's just circumstances

For clubs it depends on where the club is from a list management perspective. The Crows are rebuilding and will go down a more youth focused path. The Saints are probably in the same window and are wanting to put more faith in Max King

We are probably in the opposite list management window and are wanting to add some age and experience and certainly to address the massive gap we had this year with depth and quality of our KP players

[bornadog]

Ameet Bains confirming this morning Bruce wants to play with us.

Talks about it here (https://mde.whooshkaa.com/show/1919/episode/440462.mp3) as well as Keath

[comrade]

Ameet Bains confirming this morning Bruce wants to play with us.

Ratten this morning apparently said Bruce hasn't advised the Saints of his intentions. Seems weird to say that when our CEO is coming out publicly.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Ratten this morning apparently said Bruce hasn't advised the Saints of his intentions. Seems weird to say that when our CEO is coming out publicly.

Ahh silly season is well and truly here!

[bulldogtragic]

Ameet also said what a few of us were saying on here, that is, Schache, Naughton & Bruce can/will all play together. Bruce as the deep target, Naughton roaming and leading in the arc, and Schache using his elite running endurance to work up and down the ground.

So something like:

HF: Schache Naughton Dale
F: Lloyd Bruce (small pressure forward would be ideal)



And what a wasted opportunity. Granted it's been a while since I interviewed people for a salary, but surely a good and an interesting question should've been asked, something like 'are there any other trade targets the Bulldogs have?'

[Mofra]

Ameet also said what a few of us were saying on here, that is, Schache, Naughton & Bruce can/will all play together. Bruce as the deep target, Naughton roaming and leading in the arc, and Schache using his elite running endurance to work up and down the ground.

So something like:

HF: Schache Naughton Dale
F: Lloyd Bruce (small pressure forward would be ideal)
Yeah Shache covers more ground than any other dogs player, but I'm not sure dale can really play high.
We tend to have a higher forward who can push up to the contest and play as a mid, which is the role Lloyd often played for us.

Dale tended to play deep as a marking option. I think we'll trial a few things over the pre-season to see how we structure up. We may decide that only one of Dickson/Lloyd/Dale can play in our structure and go with a pressure small and a resting mid to compliment our forward 6.

[bulldogtragic]

Yeah Shache covers more ground than any other dogs player, but I'm not sure dale can really play high.
We tend to have a higher forward who can push up to the contest and play as a mid, which is the role Lloyd often played for us.

Dale tended to play deep as a marking option. I think we'll trial a few things over the pre-season to see how we structure up. We may decide that only one of Dickson/Lloyd/Dale can play in our structure and go with a pressure small and a resting mid to compliment our forward 6.

If we can get a pressure small forward in happy to look at playing Dale & Lloyd with the big boys (swap them over if you like). With West (until he goes mid), maybe Williams, Greene, Cavarra, Vandermeer & Gowers needing form to knock them out. Is Dickson a 'must sign' starts to become more and more a serious question now we know Bruce, Schache & Nughton will play together and Lloyd & Dale had good seasons too and should be in a starting 6 forwards.


Interest chronology today: Ratten says Bruce isn't asking to leave. Then Bains says Bruce hs told us wants to play for us. Dal Santo says pick 32 is his worth.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Interest chronology today: Ratten says Bruce isn't asking to leave. Then Bains says Bruce hs told us wants to play for us. Dal Santo says pick 32 is his worth.

Posturing from Ratten - they want to spend the money on others - Hill and Jones - and they dont want Bruce long term as they are building the forward line around King

[GVGjr]

Ratten this morning apparently said Bruce hasn't advised the Saints of his intentions. Seems weird to say that when our CEO is coming out publicly.

A bit of posturing in a feeble attempt to get a better deal from us.

[GVGjr]

Posturing from Ratten - they want to spend the money on others - Hill and Jones - and they dont want Bruce long term as they are building the forward line around King

Ahh, beat me too it :)

[comrade]

A bit of posturing in a feeble attempt to get a better deal from us.

Yeah, it's just a little weird to go on about how Bruce is a top 5 contested mark, contracted etc so therefore his trade value would be representative of that, yet also say 'Josh hasn't asked for a trade'.

[GVGjr]

Yeah, it's just a little weird to go on about how Bruce is a top 5 contested mark, contracted etc so therefore his trade value would be representative of that, yet also say 'Josh hasn't asked for a trade'.

"He's superman but we don't necessarily want to commit to him beyond his contract"

While what he has reportedly said might very well be true I'm not sure he's actually making a compelling case for a great deal
In reality he's probably worth more than our 2nd pick but I think we can stare them down on this one given they need to get a deal done for Zak Jones

[bulldogtragic]

BlackSoul: on Josh Bruce: St Kilda have a need to move money out for Brad Hill. I don't see the Saints getting anything near a first-rounder.

[Remi Moses]

Good grief I’ll take the Bruce morphing into plugger as wrong as I think he’s morphed into John Coleman
Someone tell Ratten it’s not Carlton in the 80’s

[1eyedog]

There could very well be something to this but I do think clubs are happy to move on contracted players when they don't see them in the longer term. If they were to wait 12 months to trade him they wouldn't get much in return
The fact that they want Zac Jones more means Bruce is a bit surplus to their needs next year

Exactly they've identied they need to make changes to their on field methodology and Bruce has basically been substituted for Jones. They're clearly after more run from Hill and Jones. Good luck to them it's a win win we need an experienced F50 target to take the heat off our young gun.

[Axe Man]

Is this why Saints are letting Bruce go? (https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/st-kilda/afl-trade-daily-rolling-footy-trade-and-free-agency-news-from-thursday-october-3/live-coverage/57bfb2871f07ec504041b7a36deb1951)

Former Saint Nick Dal Santo says the club would have “some confidence” it can reunite Ben King with his twin brother Max at Moorabbin next year.

Dal Santo said St Kilda’s willingness to let one of its leading forwards Josh Bruce cross to the Western Bulldogs suggested the club was already planning for the future.

Ben King played 14 games and kicked 17 goals in his debut year for the Suns, but was still recently being linked with a return to Victoria.

“This has been going on for 12 months when he first went to the Gold Coast Suns,” Dal Santo said.

“If they want to get the deal done, they have got to pay for Ben King. That’s just the way that it is.”

The No.6 draft pick in the 2018 national draft, Ben King will command a huge price if he returns to his home state after two years.

It would be a dream scenario for St Kilda, who could deploy the brothers as their bookends for the next decade.

“You have Ben King at one end. Max King at the other, Rowan Marshall rucking,” Dal Santo said.

The ex-Saints midfielder said it made sense to let Bruce go while he still had currency.

St Kilda could acquire Western Bulldogs’ second-round pick, No.32, for the forward.

“I don’t think anyone wants to see Josh Bruce go but unfortunately these things happen at times,” he said on AFL Trade Radio.

“On the other hand, at least they are doing something.”

St Kilda coach Brett Ratten denied Bruce had requested a trade yesterday, shortly before Bulldogs chief executive Ameet Bains said he was intent on moving to Whitten Oval.

[Rocket Science]

Who among us would be shocked if Ben King was merely the latest to serve his minimum sentence up north then promptly walk out the door?

Nobody, that's who.

As it stands the Suns are akin to a shopping centre for new recruits after they've been incubated first.

[bornadog]

Dal Santo said St Kilda’s willingness to let one of its leading forwards Josh Bruce cross to the Western Bulldogs suggested the club was already planning for the future.

Is Bruce an FA next year, otherwise this doesn't make sense. If he is any good, you hold him to his contract for another year then see how it pans out next year. 5th in contested marks tells me they will miss him.

[bulldogtragic]

Is Bruce an FA next year, otherwise this doesn't make sense. If he is any good, you hold him to his contract for another year then see how it pans out next year. 5th in contested marks tells me they will miss him.

Yep, 7 years next season. A part from the draft pick they need, blacksoul says they need a sizeable amount of money freed up too. Bruce ticks both boxes.

[Bulldog4life]

Yep, 7 years next season. A part from the draft pick they need, blacksoul says they need a sizeable amount of money freed up too. Bruce ticks both boxes.

I chuckle every time this is written.

[The Adelaide Connection]

Is Bruce an FA next year, otherwise this doesn't make sense. If he is any good, you hold him to his contract for another year then see how it pans out next year. 5th in contested marks tells me they will miss him.

This stinks of the similar hardballing we tried around the Stringer trade. Player wanted to go, we didn’t want him (for very different reasons), we showed our hand too early, and then we tried to peddle the ‘required player’ line.

I don’t blame the Saints for trying to bluff us into thinking they still want him (to pump up his value). It’s just a little embarrassing because it is pretty clear they need him gone (to scramble a pick and salary space for the hundred players they are trying to get in).

[DOG GOD]

Who among us would be shocked if Ben King was merely the latest to serve his minimum sentence up north then promptly walk out the door?

Nobody, that's who.

As it stands the Suns are akin to a shopping centre for new recruits after they've been incubated first.

And this is why I was so shocked they got an extension signature from Rankine. I’d be very surprised if B.King and Lukosis(?) are still there in 3 years time.

[bulldogtragic]

St Kilda trading Bruce to land Zak Jones.

Hun reporting Richmond now making a play for Zak Jones...

[jeemak]

Would he get a game at the Tigers? A Brandon Ellis replacement?

[GVGjr]

Would he get a game at the Tigers? A Brandon Ellis replacement?

It would be interesting to know if he is seen as a forward or something else
Could they squeeze in a 3rd tall forward like we believe we can?

[Mofra]

It would be interesting to know if he is seen as a forward or something else
Could they squeeze in a 3rd tall forward like we believe we can?
Richmond are chasing Zac Jones, not Bruce.
With Bachar Houli getting on, Jones can play HB or wing. Tough boy, but queries over his disposal at times. Menadue hasn't worked out for them.

[The Pie Man]

Richmond's interest in Jones would complicate things, but that still sounds unlikely given Richmond's reported cap space - though if Jones were to turn his back on the Saints, I'm tipping they'll still (maybe not need desperately) want the salary dump of Bruce to us for Hill & Ryder at least (as well as a launch at King next spring)

[Axe Man]

SAINTS WANT MORE THAN PICK 32 FOR KEY FORWARD

St Kilda's general manager of football Simon Lethlean said key forward Josh Bruce had not asked for a contract extension and had not been pushed out, but acknowledged that the key forward has got a 'pretty good' offer in front of him from the Western Bulldogs. "It will need to be an appropriate deal" for the Saints to part ways with Bruce and pick 32 isn't quite up to scratch.

Link (https://www.afl.com.au/news/trade/trade-talk)

[GVGjr]

SAINTS WANT MORE THAN PICK 32 FOR KEY FORWARD

St Kilda's general manager of football Simon Lethlean said key forward Josh Bruce had not asked for a contract extension and had not been pushed out, but acknowledged that the key forward has got a 'pretty good' offer in front of him from the Western Bulldogs. "It will need to be an appropriate deal" for the Saints to part ways with Bruce and pick 32 isn't quite up to scratch.

Link (https://www.afl.com.au/news/trade/trade-talk)

On face value I agree pick 32 isn't quite enough. Perhaps we need to throw a 3rd rounder to sweeten the offer

[Doc26]

On face value I agree pick 32 isn't quite enough. Perhaps we need to throw a 3rd rounder to sweeten the offer

Listening to the interview with Lethlean, I got the impression a pick in the 20's will satisfy the Saints. Maybe if we hang on late, and the Saints get desperate, this might push out to our 32. If we're talking somewhere in the 20s to 32, it's just a matter of when this trade gets done.

[Twodogs]

On face value I agree pick 32 isn't quite enough. Perhaps we need to throw a 3rd rounder to sweeten the offer


May as well. We have 72 000 third rounders ATM.

[Hotdog60]

Could we offer 32 plus 52 with the saints 58 coming back.
That gets them a pick in the third round.

[bulldogtragic]

Draft points trade would fix it. Pick 32 & 52 for Freo's Pick 26.

Saints: Pick 26
Dogs: Bruce for effectivly 32 & 52 (could be pick 60 after more compo and bids being matched)
Freo: 101 extra draft points for Liam Henry (NGA) going first round

Everyone wins.

[bulldogtragic]

Posted this in my early list management thread:

St Kilda want better than 32 for Bruce. St Kilda want a pick in the 20's or 30's back on Brad Hill/Pick 6. Freo only have Pick 26 currently, there's an opportunity to pick trade for mutual benefit with a club we've had a good recent relationship with.

Freo: Picks 32 & 52 (pick 26)
Dogs: Pick 26 (Bruce)
Saints: Get their demands: better than Pick 32 for Bruce (Pick 26), get back pick in the 20's or 30's back (Pick 32).

Freo get the 246 draft points attached to Pick 52 by trading their pick down to Pick 32 (going anyway), towards Liam Henry NGA likely first rounder. Depending on the pick they get for Langdon, they might be interested in pick 50 for a future 3rd rounder too. While they get Pick 6. Freo tell their fans they've got Picks 6 & 7 and Liam Henry (first rounder).

Dogs gets Bruce for effectively picks 32 & 52. Dogs tell their fans we got an effective KPF for just a couple of mid/later picks.

St Kilda get Brad Hill, Pick 26 (Dogs) & Pick 32 (Freo). And say there demands on both trades were meh and they drive a hard bargain.


The three trades seem so common sense, and represent a win/s, it should be done quickly and everyone move onto other things.

[AshMac]

Posted this in my early list management thread:

St Kilda want better than 32 for Bruce. St Kilda want a pick in the 20's or 30's back on Brad Hill/Pick 6. Freo only have Pick 26 currently, there's an opportunity to pick trade for mutual benefit with a club we've had a good recent relationship with.

Freo: Picks 32 & 52 (pick 26)
Dogs: Pick 26 (Bruce)
Saints: Get their demands: better than Pick 32 for Bruce (Pick 26), get back pick in the 20's or 30's back (Pick 32).

Freo get the 246 draft points attached to Pick 52 by trading their pick down to Pick 32 (going anyway), towards Liam Henry NGA likely first rounder. Depending on the pick they get for Langdon, they might be interested in pick 50 for a future 3rd rounder too. While they get Pick 6. Freo tell their fans they've got Picks 6 & 7 and Liam Henry (first rounder).

Dogs gets Bruce for effectively picks 32 & 52. Dogs tell their fans we got an effective KPF for just a couple of mid/later picks.

St Kilda get Brad Hill, Pick 26 (Dogs) & Pick 32 (Freo). And say there demands on both trades were meh and they drive a hard bargain.


The three trades seem so common sense, and represent a win/s, it should be done quickly and everyone move onto other things.

In your opinion BT - is it looking more likely we hold onto pick 13? Any chance we take this to the draft or try and trade for next years picks?

[bulldogtragic]

In your opinion BT - is it looking more likely we hold onto pick 13? Any chance we take this to the draft or try and trade for next years picks?

If we can pull off a trade up the order to 26 and St Kilda accept. Then the two options on Keath are:

Pick 44, or
Pick 13 for Pick 24 & WCE Player (wedge into Kelly trade)
Pick 13 & Keath for pick 23.

Depends a lot on how difficult Adelaide are going to be. There's some chance we hold Pick 13 and then look at whether to use it at the draft, trade it or look to fold it into next year.

If we so wanted, Pick 11 is the GCS compo pick next year which is fixed (other than compo before it which isn't a big risk). The fixed nature of removes much of the risk of a club over performing. We could offer Pick 13 this year for Pick 11 next year, and a small something for us (say Nicholls & Pick 57). GCS land 1, 2, 13, 15 & 20. We get two first rounders next year, which we then split in pick trades again next year all but ensuring no/to very small draft points deficit.

It's hard to say what the list management strategy is from out outside, this early, as it relates to draft points next year (done this year), draft points next year and/or a possible draft points deficit in 2021. There's a lot of ways the strategy can go, and varying merit in them.

In my opinion, I'd use pick 13 this year in one way or another this trade period if something good opens up. We've got good picks and the spare cap now. Say we were 1,000 points short next year, that's this trade period and next where someone may request a trade out and the pick helps out. Plus draft point trading next year. I don't see a big draft presence unless we take in Pick 13 into it. I don't mind a quiet draft knowing what's coming next year and bringing in mature, and good role players.

[Doc26]

Draft points trade would fix it. Pick 32 & 52 for Freo's Pick 26.

Saints: Pick 26
Dogs: Bruce for effectivly 32 & 52 (could be pick 60 after more compo and bids being matched)
Freo: 101 extra draft points for Liam Henry (NGA) going first round

Everyone wins.

I’m sure you’ve mentioned it elsewhere but with this scenario how do you see us landing Keath BT?

Edit: BT, you beat me to it. Ignore this Q.

[comrade]

Any chance the Bombers try to stick their nose in this deal with Daniher out the door?

[The Adelaide Connection]

Any chance the Bombers try to stick their nose in this deal with Daniher out the door?

I am worried about that. Hopefully their hardballing in the Daniher situation sees Dodoro drag that trade to the line (like with the Stringer trade) and keeps him too distracted to get amongst the Bruce situation.

[bornadog]

Any chance the Bombers try to stick their nose in this deal with Daniher out the door?

Bruce has already said he wants to come to us. Surely he doesn't do a Hurley.

[Axe Man]

Josh Bruce wants to play a role in the Western Bulldogs’ push for top four in 2020 and beyond (https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/afl-trade-daily-every-deal-and-whisper-on-day-one-of-the-exchange-period-monday-october-7-2019/live-coverage/181780fec0080bf5a6560c19de4e6d68)

St Kilda forward Josh Bruce wants to join the Western Bulldogs’ top-four tilt in a bid to play in his first finals campaign next season.

Bruce, 27, has met with Western Bulldogs coach Luke Beveridge and is excited about partnering spearhead Aaron Naughton as part of a new twin tower setup at the kennel in 2020.

While the four-year offer from the Dogs is a contract he cannot refuse, there is the added appeal of joining a club which could genuinely contend for next year’s flag.

The Dogs are rated an $11 chance with TAB to win the 2020 premiership, while St Kilda has the second-longest premiership odds ($51) above only Gold Coast.

Bruce had not played in a final in his eight years in the league and is keen to end his finals drought at his third club.

The former Greater Western Sydney key forward has also enjoyed only one winning season (more than 50 per cent win ratio) – when the Saints won 12 games in 2016.

It means the chance to capitalise on one of the best young midfield brigades in the game alongside Naughton has significant appeal in the prime part of Bruce’s career.

St Kilda is optimistic about its future and could yet become one of the biggest winners from this year’s trade period with grand plans to add Brad Hill (Fremantle), Paddy Ryder (Port Adelaide), Dan Butler (Richmond) and Zak Jones (Sydney).

But the Saints are in the midst of a significant transition and could yet take more time to mature into a genuine premiership candidate.

The Dogs were considered the most in-form team in the league late in the regular season before crashing out of the finals in an upset first-round loss to GWS Giants.

Beveridge’s men have vowed to be aggressive players in the trade period and are expected to bolster the back half with the arrival of Adelaide key defender Alex Keath.

Dogs list manager Sam Power said the club wanted to bolster its spine.

“We’ve identified some key position players as really adding to our group and we’ll work through those conversations over the next week,” Power said.

Naughton is rated one of the most exciting young players in the game and Bruce could play a significant role alongside the youngster helping shoulder the goal kicking load.

Bruce is contracted for one more season at St Kilda, but the Saints are yet to offer the forward a contract extension beyond 2020.

The lack of a formal extension from St Kilda in recent months has made the Dogs’ position even more attractive.

St Kilda wants more than pick No. 32 from the Dogs to seal the deal, according to football boss Simon Leathlean.

"Getting on specifics is a bit hard, but right here, right now, I don't feel like pick 32 is appropriate for our biggest key forward who has got a year to go on his contract," Lethlean said.

"If they want to offer a four-year deal and big money, I don't think that's the right sort of pick.

"Time will tell. You don't want to put your stake in the ground too early. If we get other things done and it helps us get other things done, we'll wait and see.

"But it doesn't feel quite right to me."

Bruce is determined to make the move to the kennel to help round out his career at his third club.

Bruce has a good relationship with Beveridge and was brought to the Saints by Dogs chief executive Ameet Bains when he was at Seaford.

[GVGjr]

Any chance the Bombers try to stick their nose in this deal with Daniher out the door?

Not too concerned, plenty to play out with everyone having their own targets

If they want a soon to be 28yo, I'd be a bit surprised

[GVGjr]

Bruce has already said he wants to come to us. Surely he doesn't do a Hurley.

That's only likely to happen with players staying at their own clubs, in Bruce's mind he's checked out of the Saints

[GVGjr]

I like hearing Saints supporters calling in about it being pick 13 or nothing with a trade for Bruce and that they should play hard ball
It's all strong stuff and good luck to them

These are the interesting points to me:

1) The Saints have confirmed that they aren't in a position to offer Bruce an extension at this point. The onus is clearly on the player to wear the risk going forward.

2) Assuming they won't let him go and we won't use pick 13 unless we get something significant coming back then he comes out of contract at the end of 2020 and assuming we are still interested the Saints would probably get an end of 2nd round pick as compensation and we get him for nothing on a 3 year deal.

3) If we are to use pick 13 (and we might) we would still need their 2nd round pick in 2020 coming back to us. I have previously valued this.

Over all I can see why #32 might be a fraction light on but we could tip in a 3rd round pick (or a swap of sorts) to get the deal done
As it stands #32 is around the mark. I still think it's in the Saints best interest to get the deal done early

[hujsh]

I like hearing Saints supporters calling in about it being pick 13 or nothing with a trade for Bruce and that they should play hard ball
It's all strong stuff and good luck to them

These are the interesting points to me:

1) The Saints have confirmed that they aren't in a position to offer Bruce an extension at this point. The onus is clearly on the player to wear the risk going forward.

2) Assuming they won't let him go and we won't use pick 13 unless we get something significant coming back then he comes out of contract at the end of 2020 and assuming we are still interested the Saints would probably get an end of 2nd round pick as compensation and we get him for nothing on a 3 year deal.

3) If we are to use pick 13 (and we might) we would still need their 2nd round pick in 2020 coming back to us. I have previously valued this.

Over all I can see why #32 might be a fraction light on but we could tip in a 3rd round pick (or a swap of sorts) to get the deal done
As it stands #32 is around the mark. I still think it's in the Saints best interest to get the deal done early

Maybe. I think they might want to know what they need in other deals before signing the dotted line in a trade for Bruce or Steven in case they're short. Would be great to get our two trades done early

[ledge]

Wonder if the Keath deal goes through quicker.

[ratsmac]

It's not often these type of trades don't get done where a player nominates the club. Kelly last year was a different situation. We just need to hold our nerve and not offer up pick 13. Like others have said 32 is about right. If we can trade 32 and something down into the 20's its a win for the Saints and we'll be doing them a favour, but IMO I don't think we'll have to. They are the ones who are desperate for picks to get all their deals done in time so its just a waiting game from our end. They'll blink first, they have to.

[bornadog]

It's not often these type of trades don't get done where a player nominates the club. Kelly last year was a different situation. We just need to hold our nerve and not offer up pick 13. Like others have said 32 is about right. If we can trade 32 and something down into the 20's its a win for the Saints and we'll be doing them a favour, but IMO I don't think we'll have to. They are the ones who are desperate for picks to get all their deals done in time so its just a waiting game from our end. They'll blink first, they have to.

They are sure chasing a few, now they want Butler

[bulldogtragic]

They are sure chasing a few, now they want Butler

I wonder if that means Sam Gray has knocked them back. Carlton said Gray isn't a thing for them either. Staying at Port doesn't look viable either. Integrating to see where he ends up.

[mjp]

I like hearing Saints supporters calling in about it being pick 13 or nothing with a trade for Bruce and that they should play hard ball
It's all strong stuff and good luck to them

These are the interesting points to me:

1) The Saints have confirmed ...

What about:

- The Saints don't need to confirm that they already have Membrey and King. And have committed to Ryder in order to play a 2-headed ruck-forward 'thing' using him and Marshall.

(In other words they have no room for Bruce).

- The Saints will still need to PAY for Bruce who has no role in their team. And he is on a not insignificant (although admittedly, short term) contract.

(Pretty sure the idea of paying someone $600k to play full forward in the VFL represents a very (very) poor ROI).

St Kilda need Bruce gone. Everyone knows this. Trades like this are exhausting as the Saints want 'fair value' for a player who they 'are happy to keep'. Except they aren't prepared to keep him. At the same time, I think even the most ardent Dogs fan would acknowledge that pick 32 isn't QUITE enough...

[macca]

What about:

- The Saints don't need to confirm that they already have Membrey and King. And have committed to Ryder in order to play a 2-headed ruck-forward 'thing' using him and Marshall.

(In other words they have no room for Bruce).

- The Saints will still need to PAY for Bruce who has no role in their team. And he is on a not insignificant (although admittedly, short term) contract.

(Pretty sure the idea of paying someone $600k to play full forward in the VFL represents a very (very) poor ROI).

St Kilda need Bruce gone. Everyone knows this. Trades like this are exhausting as the Saints want 'fair value' for a player who they 'are happy to keep'. Except they aren't prepared to keep him. At the same time, I think even the most ardent Dogs fan would acknowledge that pick 32 isn't QUITE enough...

The Carlisle salary must be really hurting them . Its a good thing
Very few picks , losing a decent player and having an ageing player in Carlisle on their list and Cartain ( who may or may it get into the park due to his injuries, no disrespect ). The hanneberry trade hasn’t helped

We should play hard ball

[GVGjr]

What about:

- The Saints don't need to confirm that they already have Membrey and King. And have committed to Ryder in order to play a 2-headed ruck-forward 'thing' using him and Marshall.

(In other words they have no room for Bruce).

- The Saints will still need to PAY for Bruce who has no role in their team. And he is on a not insignificant (although admittedly, short term) contract.

(Pretty sure the idea of paying someone $600k to play full forward in the VFL represents a very (very) poor ROI).

St Kilda need Bruce gone. Everyone knows this. Trades like this are exhausting as the Saints want 'fair value' for a player who they 'are happy to keep'. Except they aren't prepared to keep him. At the same time, I think even the most ardent Dogs fan would acknowledge that pick 32 isn't QUITE enough...

I'm pretty confident the deal will get done in some form but it does get a touch annoying to hear clubs say they haven't heard from the player of his intention to leave when lets face it they know exactly what is going on
On top of what you say they have also flagged their intention to chase the contracted Ben King this year and next if needed

Yes they need him gone, and yes it most likely gets done and I agree pick #32 is just a bit light on. Its not a perfect science though
If we had pick #27 there wouldn't be a lot for them to have a whinge about

Im a bit more concerned about Keaths delayed start to be honest and how we value a trade for him. We are wearing just a bit if risk there

[Topdog]

I absolutely love BTs idea of the 32 for 26 swap with Freo. 26 would get the Bruce deal done very quickly in my opinion.

[Mofra]

Our pick 32 and pick 45 (post Tomlinson compo) is roughly pick 19-20 points equivalent. That may be more attractive to the Saints than a straight pick 26 as it gives them flexibility for Zac Jones and Paddy Ryder.

[1eyedog]

A 10 day trade period is just ridiculous. Should be cut to 5 working days.

[The Doctor]

pick 32 for Bruce and thats it in my view.

Only way we should add a 3rd round pick is so long as it doesn't interfere with Keath deal and we get a 2020 3rd round back

What are Saints going to do? Walk away?

[1eyedog]

If Crameri was worth pick 26 as a 27 year old Bruce certainly is as well.

[Happy Days]

If Crameri was worth pick 26 as a 27 year old Bruce certainly is as well.

He wasn't.

Although I guess I shouldn't be so harsh on the deal considering we haven't got to cash in on all that equity we won by being fair.

[Sedat]

He wasn't.

Although I guess I shouldn't be so harsh on the deal considering we haven't got to cash in on all that equity we won by being fair.

He was 3-time keading goalkicker at Essendon before joining the Dogs, so the Bruce comparison is not that far off the mark.

[jeemak]

He wasn't.

Although I guess I shouldn't be so harsh on the deal considering we haven't got to cash in on all that equity we won by being fair.

I thought we held out with Esserden demanding more:

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/bombers-relent-as-stewart-crameri-is-finally-traded-to-the-western-bulldogs-20131024-2w3ol.html

[Happy Days]

I thought we held out with Esserden demanding more:

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/bombers-relent-as-stewart-crameri-is-finally-traded-to-the-western-bulldogs-20131024-2w3ol.html

Essendon as a club are so drenched in tox-masc bro culture that they always simultaneously have to look like the bigger person and hard done by. Their fixation with perception and winning the battle of public opinion is why they can never get anywhere, and any communication that comes out of them can't be taken seriously.

We could've gotten him for nothing via the PSD (not that anyone does that anymore) and the want for him was largely driven by McCartney as I remember it; there was the looming ASADA cloud coupled with the fact of Crameri not being altogether that good, but we decided to play nice for reasons I still can't figure out.

If Bruce is worth the same as Crameri then he's *worth* the same, not whatever inflated price we paid. I think he's worth more and still would only pay ~32 for him.

[jeemak]

That's right. Never mind the uncertainty for the player we're targeting on a relatively large contract, never mind the (in the Crameri instance small) risk of missing him.

There's actually a reason why teams like ours don't behave like arsehats at the trade table and take a universal approach to trading fairly. Sure there's going to be clubs like Essington that don't, and you're right, they've gotten nowhere as a result of it. Overall the landscape is better for the majority of clubs behaving the way we do.

[Happy Days]

So apparently he's going to the Dees now?

I'm pretty ambivalent to all of this. Not great that we failed to get a deal done once again though.

[1eyedog]

I think the Bruce trade is waiting out the Steven trade which may get done with Geelong's later pick for Kelly. . The Aints want to know what they've got for Jones which they'll be keen to sort ASAP. I'm hoping a few things roll on from here.

[chef]

So apparently he's going to the Dees now?

I'm pretty ambivalent to all of this. Not great that we failed to get a deal done once again though.

Who's saying hes going to the Dees?

[bornadog]

I think the Bruce trade is waiting out the Steven trade which may get done with Geelong's later pick for Kelly. . The Aints want to know what they've got for Jones which they'll be keen to sort ASAP. I'm hoping a few things roll on from here.

I heard the Geelong list manager say he thought they won't get Steven?

[1eyedog]

I heard the Geelong list manager say he thought they won't get Steven?

I think they will. I'd be surprised if St. Kilda refused to release him given his mental health issues. Steven is on record as saying that if he doesn't get to Geelong he will likely retire.

[Grantysghost]

Well according to the font of all knowledge Wikipedia he's already a dog's player so we can just move on to Keath :cool:

https://i.postimg.cc/KjRgztZz/20191009-182026.jpg (https://postimg.cc/RJx0p6J5)

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Well according to the font of all knowledge Wikipedia he's already a dog's player so we can just move on to Keath :cool:

https://i.postimg.cc/KjRgztZz/20191009-182026.jpg (https://postimg.cc/RJx0p6J5)

Thats the best thing Ive seen all day. Tell me its true

[1eyedog]

Oh dear

[bulldogtragic]

Who's saying hes going to the Dees?

The only thing I can see on Twitter is Andy Maher must have said something like 'Bruce in the Dee's sights'.

Which is probably the bidding of St Kilda to create some fake pressure. Unless there's something concrete I can't read.

[Happy Days]

Who's saying hes going to the Dees?

Andy Maher (I know) on SEN (I know) seemed quietly confident that the deal was looking shaky.

[The Adelaide Connection]

Dougal Howard has now nominated St.Kilda.

So Hill, Zak Jones, Howard, Ryder, Sam Gray, (have I missed anyone else) with 6,56,73 and 79?
Yeah, they need to get Bruce sorted ASAP.

[Grantysghost]

For mine it's a good sign we are not willing to compromise our position. Bruce is no superstar, and the Saints want to introduce a swag of new players via trade so we hold all the cards.
If he goes else where it wasn't to be with the hand we have available. To be honest I can see that pick 32 getting it done.

[AshMac]

I think they will. I'd be surprised if St. Kilda refused to release him given his mental health issues. Steven is on record as saying that if he doesn't get to Geelong he will likely retire.

itll be really interesting to see the cats now play the "he wants to play for us, dont stand in the players way" card now they've locked down a small ransom for Kelly.

[mjp]

The only thing I can see on Twitter is Andy Maher must have said something like 'Bruce in the Dee's sights'.



That actually makes a fair bit of sense for Melbourne and Bruce.

Bruce would be #1 target at Melbourne. He will always be behind Naughton in terms of planning/position/opportunities at our club.

I don't want to miss out, but I understand why 'people' would be talking.

[1eyedog]

That actually makes a fair bit of sense for Melbourne and Bruce.

Bruce would be #1 target at Melbourne. He will always be behind Naughton in terms of planning/position/opportunities at our club.

I don't want to miss out, but I understand why 'people' would be talking.

He wants to play finals. I mean it's remotely feasible Melbourne play in a final while Bruce is there I suppose.

[mjp]

He wants to play finals. I mean it's remotely feasible Melbourne play in a final while Bruce is there I suppose.

I don't really like Melbourne's side either, but they were many people's premiership tip last year. Even in our own predictions thread (here: https://www.woof.net.au/forum/showthread.php?18586-2019-Your-Top-8/page2&highlight=predictions) they were routinely picked to finish in the top 4 (though to be fair, not a lot of people had a try).

Playing finals in 2020 is not a slam dunk for us. In the back half of the year when we were 'flying', we still lost to the Saints, North and the Lions - who finals footy showed up as an absolute pretender. Oh yeah, and we may have been completely smashed in a final against the Giants whose team had/has some pretty big holes in it.

I have to admit, I am enjoying the positivity about our prospects for next season but the others teams seem to be improving as well. If Melbourne could somehow snare Bruce that will really help them is all I am saying.

[Bulldog Revolution]

I have to admit, I am enjoying the positivity about our prospects for next season but the others teams seem to be improving as well. If Melbourne could somehow snare Bruce that will really help them is all I am saying.

I think thats reasonable - but do Melbourne really have the money after having gone and got Lever, May and Tomlinson - they have a host of others who will be on big money.

And the fact that Bruce has been clear he wants to come to us, and has agreed terms means that he will likely get to us.

I understand the saints posturing, I do, but they don't want him, likely cant afford him with Dougal Howard coming in, and 32 isnt a bad pick for an asset you dont want.

[The Adelaide Connection]

I think thats reasonable - but do Melbourne really have the money after having gone and got Lever, May and Tomlinson - they have a host of others who will be on big money.

And the fact that Bruce has been clear he wants to come to us, and has agreed terms means that he will likely get to us.

I understand the saints posturing, I do, but they don't want him, likely cant afford him with Dougal Howard coming in, and 32 isnt a bad pick for an asset you dont want.

The biggest problem is that there is just too long left in the draft period. Nobody is under any real pressure yet, but I do worry that if we are sitting here getting stir crazy then how are the players doing? Does someone like Bruce (who has now committed to leaving and probably feels like there is no turning back) start to get toey and start becoming more open to other offers?

Surely the AFL look at shortening the 10 days. I know it is bigger than just fan entertainment, but that is the angle they are going for and it has been like watching paint dry. It is quite comical tuning into Fox’s draft show every night and watching them clutch at straws and pad time every night though.

[1eyedog]

The biggest problem is that there is just too long left in the draft period. Nobody is under any real pressure yet, but I do worry that if we are sitting here getting stir crazy then how are the players doing? Does someone like Bruce (who has now committed to leaving and probably feels like there is no turning back) start to get toey and start becoming more open to other offers?

Surely the AFL look at shortening the 10 days. I know it is bigger than just fan entertainment, but that is the angle they are going for and it has been like watching paint dry. It is quite comical tuning into Fox’s draft show every night and watching them clutch at straws and pad time every night though.

Power will be on the phone to Bruce's Manager (or vice versa more like it), most days telling him they're gonna get it done, just sit tight.

[The Adelaide Connection]

Maybe we could somehow include Ben Long as a circuit breaker? Split our 13 to get a few low 20’s picks and give them one for Bruce and Long (maybe with a swap of late picks)?

[DOG GOD]

The trade period should be no more than Monday to Friday, 10 days is stupidity.

[1eyedog]

There's not a lot I like about Long for me to consider a move back to WO.

[chef]

Trade period is for the clubs and players, not fans sitting around waiting for action. Does it really matter how long deals take to happen?

[jeemak]

Trade period is for the clubs and players, not fans sitting around waiting for action. Does it really matter how long deals take to happen?

Yes it does because the AFL has tried to turn it into entertainment so it can control the news cycle with endless content until the summer.

[bulldogtragic]

It seems like Saints have committed to the big price tags with this pick trade. Which means they can't pay Bruce and the new names. Hopefully this one falls down soon now the first domino has fallen.

[macca]

Power will be on the phone to Bruce's Manager (or vice versa more like it), most days telling him they're gonna get it done, just sit tight.

Yep, we have tbe upper hand in this becusse they have a salary cap problem. If saints dont trade it will send bad sign to rest of tbeir list and player managers aka look at essendon being pig beaded with their trading .

[GVGjr]

Yep, we have tbe upper hand in this becusse they have a salary cap problem. If saints dont trade it will send bad sign to rest of tbeir list and player managers aka look at essendon being pig beaded with their trading .

The Saints don't have an issue with their cap, far from it

[The Adelaide Connection]

The Saints don't have an issue with their cap, far from it

Do you think they will be close to full should they acquire all of their targets?

I wonder if moving Bruce out is also about banking a little and ensuring they have enough left to get King next year.

[Remi Moses]

The Saints don't have an issue with their cap, far from it

Seemed pretty keen to unload Carlisle’s big salary

[GVGjr]

Do you think they will be close to full should they acquire all of their targets?

I wonder if moving Bruce out is also about banking a little and ensuring they have enough left to get King next year.

Perhaps but they have enough room if not more than we do.

[GVGjr]

Seemed pretty keen to unload Carlisle’s big salary

I suspect because they weren't likely to get a decent return from him. Keeping him hasn't slowed them down

[bulldogtragic]

AFEL.com.au

Stating that St Kilda, Sydney & Bulldogs sitting down today to work out a trade on Josh Bruce, Zak Jones & A Suitable Pick to Sydney.

[KT31]

AFEL.com.au

Stating that St Kilda, Sydney & Bulldogs sitting down today to work out a trade on Josh Bruce, Zak Jones & A Suitable Pick to Sydney.

Hope we get a desired result, quite frankly I'm over the whole 10 day non-event period.

[bulldogtragic]

Hope we get a desired result, quite frankly I'm over the whole 10 day non-event period.

Yep. I have many other non productive things to do other than this.

[bornadog]

From Tom Morris


The Western Bulldogs’ fierce protection of Pick 13 has forced St Kilda to breakaway from a potential six-club trade mega deal and negotiate with Port Adelaide independently.St Kilda, Adelaide, Fremantle, Port Adelaide, Sydney and the Dogs were locked in primarily bilateral discussions all morning regarding a host of key players.


The deals would overlap with each other, but discussions fell flat around lunchtime on Wednesday.


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A stalemate between the Dogs, Crows and Saints – mostly regarding Josh Bruce and Alex Keath’s worth – has led to a breakaway trade deal.

and


But the Dogs, who are refusing to relent on Pick 13, are still trying to find other avenues to convince the Crows and Saints to part ways with Keath and Bruce.

Until Sam Power (Western Bulldogs), Justin Reid (Adelaide) and James Gallagher (St Kilda) can come to an agreement, formal announcements regarding Hill, Keath, Bruce and Jones appear unlikely.


A source close to discussions said the Dogs will either need to split Pick 13 or manufacture a host of later selections to get Keath and Bruce in before Wednesday’s 7.30pm deadline.

[bulldogtragic]

Trade radio Twitter:

He has indicated he would like to get to the Bulldogs. We need to organise a trade that we consider a fair reflection of his talent. We are speaking with the Bulldogs and inching closer (to a deal)"

- James Gallagher re: Josh Bruce

#AFLTrade



Jon Ralph thinks we can get Bruce & Keath done without the need to include pick 13.

[GVGjr]

Trade radio Twitter:

He has indicated he would like to get to the Bulldogs. We need to organise a trade that we consider a fair reflection of his talent. We are speaking with the Bulldogs and inching closer (to a deal)"

- James Gallagher re: Josh Bruce

#AFLTrade



Jon Ralph thinks we can get Bruce & Keath done without the need to include pick 13.

It sounds like we aren't prepared to trade pick 13 in any form, I wonder if we might have to make a concession with a later pick

[The Pie Man]

32 and a future later round swap is what I just read (on Twitter)

[Grantysghost]

And this from Saints list manager. It's going to happen.

"He has indicated he would like to get to the Bulldogs. We need to organise a trade that we consider a fair reflection of his talent. We are speaking with the Bulldogs and inching closer (to a deal)"

- James Gallagher re: Josh Bruce

[GVGjr]

From SEN

St Kilda list boss James Gallagher has confirmed the club hasn’t ruled out using Blake Acres as part of a trade for Brad Hill.

The midfielder is currently in Perth for discussions with the Dockers as the two clubs attempt to work out a complicated deal.

“The discussions there have been good (for Hill). They’re very professional, so it feels like we are inching closer there,” Gallagher told Telstra AFL Trade Radio.

“(Acres could be involved in the deal), yeah possibly. It’s been reported that Fremantle have indicated some level of interest in him.

“Those discussions happen, certainly for interstate players, it is too early to know if he will or won’t, but we’re pretty open minded, as are Fremantle at the moment, to get a fair deal done.”

While they are eager to add the contracted Hill, they remain staunch in their desire to keep Josh Bruce, who is in a very similar boat.

The key forward wishes to join the Bulldogs, but Gallagher said he is an important player to them and not one they want to lose.

“It is certainly not a formality. Bruce is contracted for another year. He’s a really important footballer to us. He is a critical part of our forward line. Especially with the scenario we are in with Paddy McCartin having some real bad luck with concussions and Max King just being a boy,” he said.

“Bruce is vital for us, he’s really popular with our members and supporters as well. At the same time, he has said if you can help me or allow me to get the Dogs I would quite like that.

“We’ve got to take that into consideration, balancing all of those things up. What it just means, like with Brad and Dougal, we need to organise that we believe is a fair reflection of Bruce’s talent and performances.

“If nothing else, we’re talking to the Bulldogs and inching closer to a deal. I think we’ll land somewhere that is pretty fair.”

[bulldogtragic]

Media management 101. It'll get done but in the meantime they are priming their members 'that they got more, and it's fair because they fought for it. And look at our 5 ins and not the outs'.

It's getting done. Now just Dodoro Jr at Adelaide.

[bulldogtragic]

Trade radio Twitter:

The Josh Bruce situation has moved in the last hour significantly. The 2 clubs are a lot closer together. Pick 32 will form a key part of it, but that won't be the entire deal, but that now looks very likely" Mitch Cleary


Full verbatim quote:

"Pick 32 from the Dogs will form a key part of it, I don’t think it’s going to be just 32. I think it will involve a swap of picks elsewhere. I don’t think it involves pick 13."

“It has taken a big turn this afternoon and he looks likely to be a Bulldogs player tomorrow.”

[Doc26]

Trade radio Twitter:

The Josh Bruce situation has moved in the last hour significantly. The 2 clubs are a lot closer together. Pick 32 will form a key part of it, but that won't be the entire deal, but that now looks very likely" Mitch Cleary

Will be a good win for Sam Power to hold 13 and get Bruce for 32 and later pick swaps. Makes it more intriguing as to how Keath lands to us, assuming he does.

[bulldogtragic]

Will be a good win for Sam Power to hold 13 and get Bruce for 32 and later pick swaps. Makes it more intriguing as to how Keath lands to us, assuming he does.

Talk St Kilda get pick 58 for Steven. Perhaps 32 & 53 for Bruce & 58. They were happy with pick 28, just four spots. So improving the third rounder by 5 spots is maybe enough?

I was just watching the trade desk on afel.com.au - their thoughts were Keath was closer than Bruce. Bruce seems very close.

[GVGjr]

Talk St Kilda get pick 58 for Steven. Perhaps 32 & 53 for Bruce & 58. They were happy with pick 28, just four spots. So improving the third rounder by 5 spots is maybe enough?

I was just watching the trade desk on afel.com.au - their thoughts were Keath was closer than Bruce. Bruce seems very close.

Sounds like what they might be after.

[Eastdog]

Hope we get a desired result, quite frankly I'm over the whole 10 day non-event period.

Me too. It just drags on I reckon.

[hujsh]

If the holdup for us is Sydney wanting more than 32 for Jones is there a chance the true roadblock is Dodo and Essendon?

Just speculating. Doubt it's the case

[Doc26]

Talk St Kilda get pick 58 for Steven. Perhaps 32 & 53 for Bruce & 58. They were happy with pick 28, just four spots. So improving the third rounder by 5 spots is maybe enough?

I was just watching the trade desk on afel.com.au - their thoughts were Keath was closer than Bruce. Bruce seems very close.

58 for Keath. KPD and 5th in their B&F and filling our greatest need would be quite the steal.

If it ends up with us keeping 13, Bruce and Keath for 32 and 53 I would be happy to say we win trade week based on filling need whilst giving up little.

[bulldogtragic]

58 for Keath. KPD and 5th in their B&F and filling our greatest need would be quite the steal.

If it ends up with us keeping 13, Bruce and Keath for 32 and 53 I would be happy to say we win trade week based on filling need whilst giving up little.

I'd love pick 51 or 58. I'd take pick 44 if push came to shove.

After Bruce & Keath. If we have picks: 13 and two of 44, 51 & 58 (89 probably not used). My assumption is just use two draft picks and upgrade La Young. With that the question I have then is whether there's friendly draft points trades to go up the draft order, there's plenty opportunity out there. Or offer one third rounder for a third rounder next year. There's plenty of time for Sam Power to assess that question.

[FrediKanoute]

How does all this though leave us with accumulating draft points for the guys we are into next year?

[bulldogtragic]

How does all this though leave us with accumulating draft points for the guys we are into next year?

Wait and see after all the trades are done. For ease of discussion let's say Adelaide take pick 58.

Sam Power then has 13, 44, 51. He could offer up 44 or 51 for a future third rounder if he wants. Assuming he doesn't want to do anything with pick 13.

[jazzadogs]

How does all this though leave us with accumulating draft points for the guys we are into next year?

The timeline isn't as much of an issue with this. Trades involving draft picks only can still be completed between the end of trade period and the draft - it's only trades involving players that need to be completed by tomorrow.

[The Adelaide Connection]

If the Crows continue to play hard ball I’d love for us to offer 13 (+maybe something late if needed) for Keath and McHenry.

McHenry was high on our radar and was walked through Whiten oval but was taken by the Crows at 16, clearly as a best available rather than needs based. They seem like they have someone in mind for our 13 and McHenry is at this point probably surplus to their needs.

Some on here would have seen more of him than me, but it sounds like he could take up the forward pressure role and he has a big enough tank to spend time on the wing.

Edit: It’s one of life’s great mysteries why I posted about the Keath trade on the Bruce thread. :confused:

[bornadog]

Lethlean still playing hard ball by the sounds. Unlike Keath, Bruce has a contract for another year.

[bulldogtragic]

Saints now have 58 from Jack Steven. Opens up a trade avenue:

Saints get: Picks 32 & 53
Dogs get: Bruce & Pick 58

Leaves 45, 51 & 58 to work on Keath.

[bornadog]

Saints now have 58 from Jack Steven. Opens up a trade avenue:

Saints get: Picks 32 & 53
Dogs get: Bruce & Pick 58

Leaves 45, 51 & 58 to work on Keath.

Would we split 13 and use a pick in high 20/30s? for Keath. I don't want to but we may have to.

[Mofra]

All the noise suggests Bruce will be done before Keath.
All we have to do is satisfy the Swans for the Zac Jones trade.

[1eyedog]

Would we split 13 and use a pick in high 20/30s? for Keath. I don't want to but we may have to.

Just gotta hold on a bit longer

[G-Mo77]

Lethlean still playing hard ball by the sounds. Unlike Keath, Bruce has a contract for another year.

1 they may not be able to afford though.

[Bulldog4life]

Would we split 13 and use a pick in high 20/30s? for Keath. I don't want to but we may have to.

I think we should stick to our guns for the moment. Still just under 4 hours to go.

[bornadog]

Saints now have 58 from Jack Steven. Opens up a trade avenue:

Saints get: Picks 32 & 53
Dogs get: Bruce & Pick 58

Leaves 45, 51 & 58 to work on Keath.

58 gone to Freo as part of Hill transfer

[bulldogtragic]

I think we should stick to our guns for the moment. Still just under 4 hours to go.

Yep. We could try to see if Port will draft trade 29 & 68 - for - 45, 51 & 53. (Port 127 points up)

Then offer 32 (29 for Bruce so they get more than 32...) and a future 4th (bugger all points) - for - Keath & future 3rd (much more points). That's as generous as I could get.

Leaves us Pick 13, 68 & upgrade La Young -- Bruce, Keath, 2020 3rd

The original picks, in effect: 45 gets Keath, 51 gets us a future Cows third, 53 downgrades to 68. So we just cop the 53>68 downgrade. But the other third rounders get what we intended. The Cows can bang on getting a pick around 30 and St Kilda getting a top 30 pick.

[bulldogtragic]

Cleary and Barrett saying Bruce gets done soon enough.

[bulldogtragic]

Landsberger saying Sydney want more than 32 for Jones, and that's the hold up. Perhaps exchange picks 51 & 56.

Bruce & 56, for, Picks 32 & 51. Seems a fair compromise.

[1eyedog]

32 for Jones is about spot on.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

32 for Jones is about spot on.

This bloke is so overrated. The talk of him being a good player is about as accurate as his kicking.

[1eyedog]

Oh I agree entirely. He runs in straight lines with next to zero awareness.

[bornadog]

This bloke is so overrated. The talk of him being a good player is about as accurate as his kicking.

I don't rate him at all.

[Sedat]

Oh I agree entirely. He runs in straight lines with next to zero awareness.
Sherman with less hair and more tatts

[Grantysghost]

I'm really ok with us holding on Bruce. Hopefully though it hasn't cost us any other deals. But i have faith in our team to be across what they need to.

[AshMac]

I'm really ok with us holding on Bruce. Hopefully though it hasn't cost us any other deals. But i have faith in our team to be across what they need to.

I agree. We put a stake in the ground that we stick to our word and build a reputation as being fair but firm.

I value Bruce and Keath at the exact value we’ve tabled for them. In honesty both clubs need to move them on.

[HOSE B ROMERO]

Who is with Sam doing the negotiations? Granty?

[GVGjr]

Who is with Sam doing the negotiations? Granty?

I think so.

[comrade]

Would Bevo have much input in the negotiations?

[bornadog]

Would Bevo have much input in the negotiations?

I doubt it. Bevo doesn't even get involved with negotiating with assistant coaches

[Grantysghost]

Looks done. Sam and Saints man in the trade room.

[GVGjr]

Happening now,

[bornadog]

Lets hope so

[bulldogtragic]

Giddy up.

Welcome Josh.

[kruder]

Sam looks warm out..

[Grantysghost]

32 and 51.

[bulldogtragic]

Pick 32 & 51 - for - Bruce.

Great deal for us.

[GVGjr]

Pick 32 and 51

That leaves 45 for Keath

[bornadog]

Dogs get: Josh Bruce


Saints get: Pick 32 and Pick 51

[Scraggers]

32 and 51.

Happy with that

[kruder]

All that for 32 and 51, they really need to reduce trade week.

[Grantysghost]

Good deal. Leaves 45 for Keath with a sweetener.

[josie]

Yay!! I really like Josh Bruce. Totally irrelevant to his footy abilities I think he will be a good ambassador for club, a good team mate and (wait for it)....passes the eye test (always thought he looks a tad like Tom Boyd although hair not as luxurious!!).

Seriously though, I think he will be really good for us eg Naughton, Schache and Bruce in forward line with 2 having ability to play back. And he can take a damn good mark-can never have too many of these types.

Welcome to our Great Club Mr Bruce.

[Smads57]

Happy with this trade

[The Doctor]

Yay!! I really like Josh Bruce. Totally irrelevant to his footy abilities I think he will be a good ambassador for club, a good team mate and (wait for it)....passes the eye test (always thought he looks a tad like Tom Boyd although hair not as luxurious!!).

Seriously though, I think he will be really good for us eg Naughton, Schache and Bruce in forward line with 2 having ability to play back. And he can take a damn good mark-can never have too many of these types.

Welcome to our Great Club Mr Bruce.

lets give him number 17

[ratsmac]

Good deal but it could've happen ages ago. It looks silly now that we wasted so much time saying it's 32 only then throwing in 52 which probably would've got the deal done on day 1. Anyway we got our man and I think he'll be awesome for us with our mids giving him plenty of opportunities.

Welcome Broooooossse!!

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Awesome. Bruce is a great mark and very competitive, great character. He will be better again with our midfield supplying him and will add experience to our young ones. Great stuff!

[KT31]

Great get and finally happy to finally get some news.