Are we legitimate contenders in 2020?

[GVGjr]

We've just completed our best season since the 2016 flag and have attracted 2 bookend key position players to join the club
Assuming we get those players over the line how do you rate our chances for 2020?

Yes it's a long range projection but what excites you about 2020 and where might you have some doubts about our ability to mix it with the big boys?

I'd be interested in your thoughts

[Testekill]

I reckon so, Bruce has played in a team with godawful delivery but is still a very good player. Having him and Naughton as our two big contested marking forwards and we're instantly looking stronger.
Keath is actually less of a concern and I'd have preferred going hard on Howard but he still had a very good year prior to his injury and would help straighten up our defense.

Bringing in those two instantly makes us a better team and the continued development of guys like English, Smith and our mid-range players and we'll be golden.

[bornadog]

Based on our form this year where we beat 5 of the other 7 in the 8 including trouncing Richmond, we have a good opportunity in 2020 to be top 4. From there it becomes a small matter of some luck.

The younger guys have now got some more experience under their belt and should improve in 2020, plus with the continual improvement of Lew Young, helped by Keath in the backline and the forward line injection of Bruce I can't see why not.

[mjp]

Yes it's a long range projection but what excites you about 2020 and where might you have some doubts about our ability to mix it with the big boys?

The fact that the coach is still talking about unfair tactics being used in an elimination final where pretty much everyone in the universe expected GWS to push the boundaries of the rules has me concerned...I am just hopeful the message behind closed doors is 'This must NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN' rather than the 'Woe is me' public persona...

If we can get the attitude right - whether we add any players or not - our existing squad has the potential to push late into September.

[GVGjr]

The fact that the coach is still talking about unfair tactics being used in an elimination final where pretty much everyone in the universe expected GWS to push the boundaries of the rules has me concerned...I am just hopeful the message behind closed doors is 'This must NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN' rather than the 'Woe is me' public persona...

If we can get the attitude right - whether we add any players or not - our existing squad has the potential to push late into September.

We allowed teams with plenty to play for (Carlton, North, St Kilda and GWS for example) at various times during the season to come out hard against us and we somehow had no answer for it. We had to know they would all be 'on' in those games but we just couldn't find that next gear to meet their energy level or commitment.

It's one of the biggest question marks for the 2020 season in my opinion.

When we look back in recent history clubs have too often picked us apart. The 2016 handball club didn't stand up the following year and our inability to help JJ deal with heavy tagging was a huge distraction for us.

It won't be hard for opposition coaches to show footage of how we couldn't fire back when clubs came out hard against us to their players and wind them up for a big effort.

If we can counter that then we do have the list to be a top 6 side in 2020 but we do need more players to find that inner mongrel we lacked at times.

[strebla]

Couldn't agree more GVG jr Libba and Wallis will help here a lot as will the two new boys. Without lowering our standards we need to play with a much harder edge I believe the players are there just about getting the commitment.

[Eastdog]

We are contender if we can beat those sides we should be expected to beat. We did a lot good in the 1st half of this season but didn’t get all the results our way. The Blues and Suns losses really hurt us.

The 2nd half of the year was really good although the disappointing results was the Pies game where we easily could have won and losing to the Saints. The Lions were in great form so not much of a surprise they got us up there but we beat them earlier on in Ballarat.

We have a great group of kids coming through and we have done pretty good at the trade table. Lloyd, Trengove, Crozier been very good acquisitions.

[ratsmac]

We allowed teams with plenty to play for (Carlton, North, St Kilda and GWS for example) at various times during the season to come out hard against us and we somehow had no answer for it. We had to know they would all be 'on' in those games but we just couldn't find that next gear to meet their energy level or commitment.

It's one of the biggest question marks for the 2020 season in my opinion.

When we look back in recent history clubs have too often picked us apart. The 2016 handball club didn't stand up the following year and our inability to help JJ deal with heavy tagging was a huge distraction for us.

It won't be hard for opposition coaches to show footage of how we couldn't fire back when clubs came out hard against us to their players and wind them up for a big effort.

If we can counter that then we do have the list to be a top 6 side in 2020 but we do need more players to find that inner mongrel we lacked at times.

Well said GVGjr and I couldn't agree more. I might add though an area I think we really need to improve on is in the coaches box. I think Bevo and co was out coached a few times this season. And it started at the selection table. We tried to get an advantage by starting with a disadvantage to us sometimes. Going in too small against the Blues comes to mind straight up and too inexperienced against the Giants is another. If we are going to compete with the league's best we have to get everything absolutely right.

We seem to be addressing some holes in our squad and hopefully they guys they pick (Bruce and Keath) fit into our culture and game plan. They do help with our average age profile for one. Although I still think we need an outside runner wing type with good leg speed so hopefully our recruiters find a gem through the draft because I can't see us trading in a third established player.

I'm expecting improvement on this season next year with the list we have so top 4 or bust for me. And if we make top 4 we are every bit a chance.

[Sedat]

The fact that the coach is still talking about unfair tactics being used in an elimination final where pretty much everyone in the universe expected GWS to push the boundaries of the rules has me concerned...I am just hopeful the message behind closed doors is 'This must NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN' rather than the 'Woe is me' public persona...

If we can get the attitude right - whether we add any players or not - our existing squad has the potential to push late into September.
100% agree. I'm tired of all the continued talk about how big bad GWS bullied us - it was a meek, submissive and embarrassing performance, and as GVGjr has alluded to, it wasn't isolated to just 1 match in 2019. We simply need to find a way to handle the overtly physical teams, and if we can we have the ability to go very far in 2020.

One thing I noted with interest yesterday was how Richmond treated its extended squad members who weren't in the 22. One of them was Alex Rance, who was treated no differently to any of the other squad members. He was a huge influence on the defensive unit all season, coaching them while he was recovering from injury, but there was no hint of Dimma inviting him up to the dais to collect his medal - I think it is telling that we gave an individual the focus when we won our premiership, when it was a team-wide buy-in that resulted in our success. Perhaps this subconsciously played to our mindset when we won our flag, and might open a window into why we stumbled after breaking our premiership drought whereas Richmond went on to collect a second premiership 2 years after their drought-breaker (and finishing 2 games clear on top in their premiership defence year). I know it is a hindsight call, and I was as emotional as everyone else when Bevo gave Bob his medal, but it is an interesting comparison with Richmond nonetheless.

[SonofScray]

Our best performances will beat most other team's best performances, the footy we are capable of is right up there. Good to be a part of. Will we see enough of it for a flag to wag? Need the potential new additions to have an impact structurally, a few young guys to go up another notch and relatively few injuries..

I'm not certain what our best 22 is.

[SonofScray]

One thing I noted with interest yesterday was how Richmond treated its extended squad members who weren't in the 22. One of them was Alex Rance, who was treated no differently to any of the other squad members. He was a huge influence on the defensive unit all season, coaching them while he was recovering from injury, but there was no hint of Dimma inviting him up to the dais to collect his medal - I think it is telling that we gave an individual the focus when we won our premiership, when it was a team-wide buy-in that resulted in our success. Perhaps this subconsciously played to our mindset when we won our flag, and might open a window into why we stumbled after breaking our premiership drought whereas Richmond went on to collect a second premiership 2 years after their drought-breaker (and finishing 2 games clear on top in their premiership defence year). I know it is a hindsight call, and I was as emotional as everyone else when Bevo gave Bob his medal, but it is an interesting comparison with Richmond nonetheless.Reckon something went wrong back of house in those weeks post premiership, along the lines of a Me culture, but attributing anything to that moment other than what it was, is a long bow to draw for mine.

[Sedat]

Reckon something went wrong back of house in those weeks post premiership, along the lines of a Me culture, but attributing anything to that moment other than what it was, is a long bow to draw for mine.
You're probably right - I just thought it was interesting that Rance was virtually an anonymous face in the crowd yesterday when he is every bit a club champion for Richmond in the same way that Bob was for us.

[bornadog]

The fact that the coach is still talking about unfair tactics being used in an elimination final where pretty much everyone in the universe expected GWS to push the boundaries of the rules has me concerned...I am just hopeful the message behind closed doors is 'This must NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN' rather than the 'Woe is me' public persona...

If we can get the attitude right - whether we add any players or not - our existing squad has the potential to push late into September.

I think the coach was angry, and I took it as we will do something about it in future.

The games we lost against Carlton, Suns, Saints were all due to a very slow start, where we didn't get on the board until almost 6 goals were kicked, and then we chased for the rest of the game. We addressed this in the second half of the season, to a certain extent and need to make sure it doesn't happen in future games, to the same extent.

[The Adelaide Connection]

In theory we are set to get a pretty favourable draw. We Just sneak into the middle 6 and I can’t remember the actual formula, but doesn’t it mean that we have minimal double ups against the top 6?

You would assume that most of Richmond, GWS, Geelong, WC, Brisbane, and Collingwood will again be strong. I wouldn’t mind getting Adelaide twice (who are about to fall off the edge of a cliff) and with a bit of luck we might pull a few more teams on the way down/flatlining.

There can’t be any excuses. Realistically, top 4 should be our goal.

[GVGjr]

I think the coach was angry, and I took it as we will do something about it in future.

The games we lost against Carlton, Suns, Saints were all due to a very slow start, where we didn't get on the board until almost 6 goals were kicked, and then we chased for the rest of the game. We addressed this in the second half of the season, to a certain extent and need to make sure it doesn't happen in future games, to the same extent.

I don't think we did address it in the 2nd half of the season.
We played some better football for sure but when we were off we were a long way off.
The Saints game was round 18 and blind Freddie knew we needed to improve when clubs playing against us had replaced a coach the week before but of course they jumped us without an adequate response. Why couldn't we push back and get the game on our terms?

Then we played GWS in the final, when we were apparently very aware they were going to make it a physical and hot contest from the first bounce but yet produced a deer in the headlight response. I get why Bevo was angry but hopefully some of that anger was directed to our meek response.

If were were hoodwinked by some brilliant coaching or if one opposition player was producing a once in a lifetime performance you could understand it but when it's as predictable as under performing clubs losing a coach and we are not prepared for a hot start we need to look a bit deeper to the reasons why we failed to respond.

[kruder]

You're probably right - I just thought it was interesting that Rance was virtually an anonymous face in the crowd yesterday when he is every bit a club champion for Richmond in the same way that Bob was for us.

It may have been a different story if it was 2017 and he missed out on it.

We will get a second crack at a premiership with this group and we can only hope we handle ourselves better next time.

[Twodogs]

You're probably right - I just thought it was interesting that Rance was virtually an anonymous face in the crowd yesterday when he is every bit a club champion for Richmond in the same way that Bob was for us.

I think you are giving them a little too much credit. Rance already has a premiership medal and I'm betting that if he had missed out in 2017 that he would have been on the dais wanting a medal too.


The thing that really shitted me about us not firing a shot in our premiership defence was that it let blokes like Murphy down. It was almost a case of "I'm right mate, I've played in a premiership. Who cares if Murph and Wally miss out and retire without a medal?" I can't understand how you could look teammates like Murphy and Wallis in the eye after the effort in 2017.

[Mofra]

You're probably right - I just thought it was interesting that Rance was virtually an anonymous face in the crowd yesterday when he is every bit a club champion for Richmond in the same way that Bob was for us.
I disagree.

Our club basically imploded in October 2014 and Murph put his hand up to lead an absolute rabble.

They both had ACL injuries but for me that's where the similarities ended. Wallis was an anonymous face in the crowd in 2016 except unlike Rance, wasn't in the coaches box.