Bulldogs vs Bombers - NAB Cup (Rd2)

[Bulldog Revolution]

So lots of changes mooted to the team

Out: Gilbee, Griffen, Harbrow and Ray

Mooted ins: OShea, Minson, Grant, Higgins, McDougall

Given that our two most attacking rebounding defenders will be out in Griffen and Gilbee who do we see playing at half back etc?

Could Higgins be an option at half back on Friday?

[Go_Dogs]

Perhaps Eagleton will get a run off half back. Missing Gilbee, Griffen and Ray will certainly hurt us in that department.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Or perhaps it should just be Callan and Addison to see whether they can use the footy to hurt other teams

[Go_Dogs]

Or perhaps it should just be Callan and Addison to see whether they can use the footy to hurt other teams

Interesting call. I'm not 100% convinced on either players ability to use the ball that well - Addison I think has the potential but seems to make a few incorrect decisions at this point in time. It'll be a good test for both players if they're entrusted with the role.

Could even be a good opportunity for someone like Stack or Hill to play for a more extended time off the half back line.

[The Coon Dog]

Could even be a good opportunity for someone like Stack or Hill to play for a more extended time off the half back line.

Unfortunately with the NAB Cup you have a squad of 26, meaning 8 on the bench.

Very hard to ensure you can combine getting game time into your senior players so they're ready for round 1 with giving youngsters game time too.

For example, if you want to give Robert Murphy a decent hit out, then his extended time on the ground must come at the expense of someone who gets a longer period of time on the bench.

[Go_Dogs]

I understand that. I don't expect Hill and Stack to play much more than a 1/4, and I would be happy with our more senior guys doing a harder 3/4's than being expected to play closer to full game time.

[LostDoggy]

Someone on Bigfooty has posted a squad for Friday night's game. Have trimmed it down to an eight man bench and lined them up as follows:

FB 38 - Dale Morris 36 - Brian Lake 22 - Dylan Addison
HB 3 - Andrejs Everitt 23 - Andrew McDougall 25 - Ryan Hargrave
C 5 - Matthew Boyd 7 - Scott West 21 - Jason Akermanis
HF 6 - Brad Johnson 2 - Robert Murphy 8 - Mitch Hahn
FF 27 - Will Minson 28 - Scott Welsh 19 - Shaun Higgins

RUCK 15 - Ben Hudson 17 - Adam Cooney 4 - Daniel Cross


Bench 10 - Nathan Eagleton
11 - Peter Street
20 - Josh Hill
24 - Jarrod Grant
33 - Tim Callan
35 - Stephen Tiller
37 - Cameron Wight
44 - Paul O'Shea

Half forward line looks small but I think you can get away with it on Telstra Dome, O'Shea, Callan and Wight can swing back if needed. Grant and Tiller should get runs in the forward line (with Wight popping up across half forward to continue his development).

[LostDoggy]

Someone on Bigfooty has posted a squad for Friday night's game. Have trimmed it down to an eight man bench and lined them up as follows:

FB 38 - Dale Morris 36 - Brian Lake 22 - Dylan Addison
HB 3 - Andrejs Everitt 23 - Andrew McDougall 25 - Ryan Hargrave
C 5 - Matthew Boyd 7 - Scott West 21 - Jason Akermanis
HF 6 - Brad Johnson 2 - Robert Murphy 8 - Mitch Hahn
FF 27 - Will Minson 28 - Scott Welsh 19 - Shaun Higgins

RUCK 15 - Ben Hudson 17 - Adam Cooney 4 - Daniel Cross


Bench 10 - Nathan Eagleton
11 - Peter Street
20 - Josh Hill
24 - Jarrod Grant
33 - Tim Callan
35 - Stephen Tiller
37 - Cameron Wight
44 - Paul O'Shea

Half forward line looks small but I think you can get away with it on Telstra Dome, O'Shea, Callan and Wight can swing back if needed. Grant and Tiller should get runs in the forward line (with Wight popping up across half forward to continue his development).

Start Wight at CHF, and keep him there the whole game. Only way of finding out if he can play CHF

[Dry Rot]

Start Wight at CHF,


Agree with that.

I also think we'll need Murphy's creativity down back if we're without Gilbee and Griffin this week.

[ledge]

If Wight stays at CHF why did we get Mc Dougall, seems he has never had time to settle. I saw him in the VFL a few times last year and at times he look a cut above the rest, seems we are patient with some players and not others, why does no one put him at full forward and Scotty Welsh making the opposition wonder who to put theyre premier backman on. I like Mc Dougalls hands and he isnt bad on the ground either, a tall who could cause problems either taking a mark or at least knocking it to ground.

[LostDoggy]

If Wight stays at CHF why did we get Mc Dougall, seems he has never had time to settle. I saw him in the VFL a few times last year and at times he look a cut above the rest, seems we are patient with some players and not others, why does no one put him at full forward and Scotty Welsh making the opposition wonder who to put theyre premier backman on. I like Mc Dougalls hands and he isnt bad on the ground either, a tall who could cause problems either taking a mark or at least knocking it to ground.

Mcdougall cant play. Fullstop! Should never of drafted him.

[hujsh]

If Wight stays at CHF why did we get Mc Dougall, seems he has never had time to settle. I saw him in the VFL a few times last year and at times he look a cut above the rest, seems we are patient with some players and not others, why does no one put him at full forward and Scotty Welsh making the opposition wonder who to put theyre premier backman on. I like Mc Dougalls hands and he isnt bad on the ground either, a tall who could cause problems either taking a mark or at least knocking it to ground.

He showed real signs in that NAB match in Darwin last year

[Mantis]

Mcdougall cant play. Fullstop! Should never of drafted him.

We didn't draft him so get your facts straight..

[hujsh]

Mcdougall cant play. Fullstop! Should never of drafted him.

We got him for virtually nothing.

[LostDoggy]

We got him for virtually nothing.

We got virtually nothing back

[hujsh]

We got virtually nothing back

Well it was worth a try (he's not done for yet). Or would you prefer the club sits idly by and does nothing to solve our problems

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Mcdougall cant play. Fullstop! Should never of drafted him.

Cost us virtually nothing, and we didn't draft him.
Obviously the club think he has some redeeming potential or he would not still be on our list, pushing for selection.
I'm willing to give the club the benefit of the doubt on this and see how it pans out. Certainly if he doesn't show more than just occasional glimpses of his talent this year, we will cut our minimal losses at the end of the year.

[LostDoggy]

We didn't draft him so get your facts straight..

Draft/Trade whatever. Facts are he cant play.

[LostDoggy]

We got him for virtually nothing.

Gave away pick 29 and 59, hardly call that nothing
Will Schofield, Awyn DAvey ,Justin Westoff and tyson Goldsack all went after those picks.

[GVGjr]

Gave away pick 29 and 59, hardly call that nothing
Will Schofield, Awyn DAvey ,Justin Westoff and tyson Goldsack all went after those picks.

Jerry, you have this wrong. You have made your point about McDougall but you are doing yourself no favours with this piece of analysis.

[hujsh]

Gave away pick 29 and 59, hardly call that nothing
Will Schofield, Awyn DAvey ,Justin Westoff and tyson Goldsack all went after those picks.

NO WRONG. Swapped 2nd and 4th round picks and we got Doogs. So we just reshuffled and got a player with the potential to solve a few problems.

[LostDoggy]

Jerry, you have this wrong. You have made your point about McDougall but you are doing yourself no favours with this piece of analysis.

We got our fingers burnt. Lets agree on that. Chill out, be free

[LostDoggy]

We all had very high hopes -- some might say expectations -- for Andrew at the start of last season due to some impressive stats from his injury interrupted time at West Coast coupled with our dire need of a key forward, and it is fair to say that he disappointed most of those (unrealistic) hopes and expectations. However, he added value to the backline late last year and has since shown the potential to be a very important contributor to the structure and depth of the team, perhaps without ever hitting the heights some of us may have hoped for, although it is not unheard of that players take a year to really hit their straps at a new club, especially with a move interstate.

The jury is still out on this one, I think. There is certainly no complaint about his work-ethic, team focus or attitude.

[Dry Rot]

Moving on from the McDougall saga - who is likely to be in and what our chances of winning?

I'm probably watching this with a good mate and Bombers fan*.



*As with all Bombers fans, he is arrogant and needs to be humiliated by me.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Gave away pick 29 and 59, hardly call that nothing
Will Schofield, Awyn DAvey ,Justin Westoff and tyson Goldsack all went after those picks.

Actually we traded Brisbane's pick for him.

Remember we traded pick 29 for Mcdougall and Aker (rather than just trading pick 29 for Aker).

We swapped picks 59 for 65 as well but we would have used pick 59 on Malcolm Lynch anyway had we kept it.

So Mcdougall cost us nothing at all.


He's also played 5 games for us and been in the better players in 3 of them.

v. Melbourne he touched up Newton
v. Hawthorn he touched up Boyle (just about our BOG)
v. North he had about 25 touches and a goal

He can't play forward but maybe he'll make it as a CHB.

[LostDoggy]

This thread has gone off topic somewhat. How about some discussion about the team makeup for Friday night? It looks like we will be relatively inexperienced and the Bombers will go in with a strong lineup.

[Mantis]

Actually we traded Brisbane's pick for him.

Remember we traded pick 29 for Mcdougall and Aker (rather than just trading pick 29 for Aker).

We swapped picks 59 for 65 as well but we would have used pick 59 on Malcolm Lynch anyway had we kept it.

So Mcdougall cost us nothing at all.


He's also played 5 games for us and been in the better players in 3 of them.

v. Melbourne he touched up Newton
v. Hawthorn he touched up Boyle (just about our BOG)
v. North he had about 25 touches and a goal

He can't play forward but maybe he'll make it as a CHB.

Something measured and logical in this thread... Who would have thought?

Agree that McDougall did very well when played in defence late last year. Let's hope he can build on those performances this year.

[Mantis]

This thread has gone off topic somewhat. How about some discussion about the team makeup for Friday night? It looks like we will be relatively inexperienced and the Bombers will go in with a strong lineup.

2 Main interests for me will be our forwardline and defensive set-ups.

* Forwardline - Thought Wight did ok at CHF last week, didn't mark too many, but presented quite well so hope he gets another good run. How long will the experiment with Minson at FF last? Would like to see Johnson play deeper, don't think his kicking is good enough in general play. Would like to see Higgins play that upfield role if he plays.

* Defence - Who matches up on Lucas and resting ruckman (Hille & Laycock). Sounds like Essendon wont be playing Johns, Lloyd and McPhee and obviously Gumby so they wont have much tall timber up forward. Lucas is there best forward I think Lake takes him. Would like to see Doogs play on Hille/ Laycock.

[Go_Dogs]

2 Main interests for me will be our forwardline and defensive set-ups.

* Forwardline - Thought Wight did ok at CHF last week, didn't mark too many, but presented quite well so hope he gets another good run. How long will the experiment with Minson at FF last? Would like to see Johnson play deeper, don't think his kicking is good enough in general play. Would like to see Higgins play that upfield role if he plays.

* Defence - Who matches up on Lucas and resting ruckman (Hille & Laycock). Sounds like Essendon wont be playing Johns, Lloyd and McPhee and obviously Gumby so they wont have much tall timber up forward. Lucas is there best forward I think Lake takes him. Would like to see Doogs play on Hille/ Laycock.

Pretty much agree with what you have said here. Hopefully Minson can do alright up forward, provide the contest. How is he looking thus far as far as mobility goes? Last year he looked to be in good shape before his form dropped off and subsequent injury.

[Sockeye Salmon]

How long will the experiment with Minson at FF last?

It hasn't started yet! Give it a chance.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Agree with that.

I also think we'll need Murphy's creativity down back if we're without Gilbee and Griffin this week.

He's certainly an option but I'd like to see a few other players trialled in that spot - Higgins, Addison, Hill, Callan etc

But it could just be that Hargraves operates as one of our main rebounding defenders - its a role he's done before and probably never quite got the kudos for his clever kicking, drive and dash.

[Big Will]

Lucas is there best forward I think Lake takes him.

Lucas will be their best forward tomorrow night but IIRC doesn't Morris usually take him?

With Johns, Lloyd and McPhee out it would be good to see Lake and McDougall take Hille and Laycock and see the rest of our backline (O'Shea, Everitt, Hargrave, Wight) possibly taller than their opponents :eek:

[Mantis]

Lucas will be their best forward tomorrow night but IIRC doesn't Morris usually take him?

Yeah he does, but I think we have to get away from making Dale pick up taller and stronger opponents.


With Johns, Lloyd and McPhee out it would be good to see Lake and McDougall take Hille and Laycock and see the rest of our backline (O'Shea, Everitt, Hargrave, Wight) possibly taller than their opponents

I think Essendon will only play one of these 2 up forward at the same time, the other will be playing in the ruck.

[LostDoggy]

Lake should take Lucas, Doogs should take the resting ruckmen.

[Scorlibo]

Agree with that.

I also think we'll need Murphy's creativity down back if we're without Gilbee and Griffin this week.

Agreed. I think Muphy can be just as damaging down back as up forward with his good footskills and evasive qualities. This also opens up a spot on the half forward line for Grant to have a go.

[firstdogonthemoon]

That is all well and good. But will we win?

[hujsh]

That is all well and good. But will we win?

I would hope we have more desire to win so yes

[bornadog]

First Goal - Welsh

Prediction - O'Shea makes a great debut.

[Rocket Science]

First goal: Higgins

Prediction: Another key injury

[LostDoggy]

Someone may be able to answer this, but is the whole of the bottom level all general admission? Ive heard from some people it is, and some other people say its not.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Hopefully O'Shea is able to impress, looking forward to his AFL debut. His improvement is a credit to him; drafted as a very raw talent, but throughout last year & this pre-season he continues to improve. He deserves his chance.

Last week I said Boyd would kick the first. Boom.

This week it'll be Johnson.

My reputation is on the line. ;)

[hujsh]

First goal: Higgins

Prediction: Another key injury

Wow don't be to optimistic...although i can see it happening.

[Big Will]

Someone may be able to answer this, but is the whole of the bottom level all general admission? Ive heard from some people it is, and some other people say its not.

I'm not 100% sure about this year but last year's NAB cup game vs Lions the entire bottom level was general admission so will expect the same for tonight.

[Mantis]

I'm not 100% sure about this year but last year's NAB cup game vs Lions the entire bottom level was general admission so will expect the same for tonight.


Level 1 & 3 - General admission - $18.90

Level 2 - Reserved seating - $26.55

[GVGjr]

How do you think we will go? I'll go for a close win and Aker for the first goal.

[Raw Toast]

How do you think we will go? I'll go for a close win and Aker for the first goal.

Seems to me that the Don's are going more for a win than we are, so I'm not confident. Just hope we get what we need out of it, though a win is always nice.

I reckon Cooney will kick the first goal FWIW.

[Mantis]

How do you think we will go?

Think we will miss the run from defence courtesy of Gilbee and Griffen. Will be interesting to see who we use in these roles.

If our midfield can get on top we should be ok. Looking for Lake to play on Lucas and beat him.

[mjp]

I've decided that I would really, really, really like to beat Essendon tonight.

Just thought I would share.

I agree with Mantis though that we will miss the GG backline run combination, and remember the pain we went through last year when both were missing.

[Dry Rot]

Have read reports that Fletcher and Stanton are out.

[Scorlibo]

Hopefully O'Shea is able to impress, looking forward to his AFL debut. His improvement is a credit to him; drafted as a very raw talent, but throughout last year & this pre-season he continues to improve. He deserves his chance.

Last week I said Boyd would kick the first. Boom.

This week it'll be Johnson.

My reputation is on the line. ;)

You're pretty gud at this is, wasnt the first goal overall but the first dogs goal. Not a good start at all but encouraging that Minson has kicked a goal. Also, Aker racking them up.

[GVGjr]

Very hard to find many positives out of the game tonight from a Doggies perspective.

A few things troubled me.

We went wide far to often
The forward line was not functioning right
We went to ground far too often
We gave away far too many silly free kicks (The Dons did not)
We lacked run and carry
Decision making

Player wise
Callan struggled and does not look up to it.
Hahn still short of a gallop.
Johnno fumbled his marks a fair bit.
Wight would undo some good play with a poor decision.
McDougall outclassed and made a few decision errors.
Murphy better back than forward
Addison shirked one
Cross marked brilliant but just seems flat.
Boyd a non factor

In the Victory room before the game Gilbee said that a few of the boys were going for a run after the match. Williams is hoping to get back soon from him quad injury.

[LostDoggy]

Johnno fumbled his marks a fair bit.
Very un Johnno like.


Wight would undo some good play with a poor decision.
I think he was on Ryder and he killed us early.


McDougall outclassed and made a few decision errors.
Well its more like he made a few correct decisions because his errors were numerous.

I didn't see anything that would make me move Minson out of FF. Its his first game there, just needs to attack the ball more.

[LostDoggy]

I heard so many people bagging will tonight, my gosh hes just come back from a pretty bad back injury, let the guy settle in for a few before you start bagging him.

I thought paul oshea did ok for his first game, josh hill will be a pretty good player in years to come, cant wait to see that kid play more and more games for the red white and blue.

Disappointing night overall.

Where off to bendigo next weekend.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Very hard to find many positives out of the game tonight from a Doggies perspective.

A few things troubled me.

We went wide far to often
The forward line was not functioning right
We went to ground far too often
We gave away far too many silly free kicks (The Dons did not)
We lacked run and carry
Decision making



Its hard to argue with any of that

Its really hard to find too many sensible positives without completely clutching at straws, we had far too many missing in action when the game was on. We fumbled too much, and turned the ball over too frequently.

The game was really a highlights package of everything that went wrong last year - we weren't clean with our hands, winning the ball, lacked run and carry, stagnated, and were happy to go wide. Our players did not play with consistent endeavour and were consistently outnumbered, made single efforts and rarely protected the guy with the ball.

[The Underdog]

My only real positive tonight was that I liked what Hudson gives us in the middle. He adds a dimension that we didn't have last year. However much like our other ruckmen he gets exploited down back sometimes.

As for the bad. I fear that our midfield depth just isn't there. Besides West (god bless him), Cross, Cooney and Boyd, I'm just not sure we have a 2nd tier who are capable of holding up the standard just yet. Nobody really seems to be stepping up. Also:
-Thought Everitt looked out of touch and out of his depth especially early on. Completey the opposite of last year.
-Can we trade Lake for Harris. Belted by David Hille fer chrissakes.
-Callan just doesn't look up to it. Totally outclassed by Andrew Welsh.
-Forward line was ordinary. Will tried hard but he looks slow and doesn't use his body that well...yet.
-Disposal was just terrible all night.
-Even though I'm an occassional Eagleton defender, it drives me nuts when he jogs on the spot while his teammates chase and pressure. He really seems to choose when he wants to go. It's driven me crazy for years, still does. I like what he brings to the side with his forward running but this just kills me, especially as when he decides to go he often puts on really good pressure.
-Is Gilbee the player we can least afford to lose. Just a class above with disposal.

It's a pre-season game so I'm not panicking but there were some bad signs. It looked a lot like late 2007...:(

[Dry Rot]

Really hard to find a positive in all that. Can't recall a Dog's player that beat his man.

McDougall's efforts were some of the most inept clueless defensive work I've seen.

[Mantis]

My only real positive tonight was that I liked what Hudson gives us in the middle. He adds a dimension that we didn't have last year. However much like our other ruckmen he gets exploited down back sometimes.

As for the bad. I fear that our midfield depth just isn't there. Besides West (god bless him), Cross, Cooney and Boyd, I'm just not sure we have a 2nd tier who are capable of holding up the standard just yet. Nobody really seems to be stepping up. Also:
-Thought Everitt looked out of touch and out of his depth especially early on. Completey the opposite of last year.
-Can we trade Lake for Harris. Belted by David Hille fer chrissakes.
-Callan just doesn't look up to it. Totally outclassed by Andrew Welsh.
-Forward line was ordinary. Will tried hard but he looks slow and doesn't use his body that well...yet.
-Disposal was just terrible all night.
-Even though I'm an occassional Eagleton defender, it drives me nuts when he jogs on the spot while his teammates chase and pressure. He really seems to choose when he wants to go. It's driven me crazy for years, still does. I like what he brings to the side with his forward running but this just kills me, especially as when he decides to go he often puts on really good pressure.
-Is Gilbee the player we can least afford to lose. Just a class above with disposal.

It's a pre-season game so I'm not panicking but there were some bad signs. It looked a lot like late 2007...:(

Some things never change.

Master Higgins is in the same boat as the Bald Eagle. Would much prefer Harbrow in the team than both of these.

[Dogs 24/7]

Their big blokes smashed us even though Hudson was OK. Hille was dangerous up forward (shades of Charman last year) and Laycock did a bit around the ground.

How embarrassing was that first supergoal to Lucas?

Backline
Lake didn't have a good night at all and Callan might be a tough nut but isn't an athlete. Everitt wasn't a factor at all and Morris struggled with the pace of Davey. Murphy did well in the back line and Hargrave did OK when moved back there
McDougall put in a shocker but some of his defensive efforts were good.
Midfield
No clear winners there for us. Hudson battled away and I liked Streets mark up forward but there wasn't too much else. The marking of Cross was great to watch but his kicking was down.
Forwards
Minson has a lot to learn but Im warming to that experiment. Aker did a bit and as others have said Johnson didn;t have a great night. Shame we didn't see much of Welsh because of his illness and Tiller has a long way to go.
Hill was exciting given his limited game time.

[Dogs 24/7]

Some things never change.

Master Higgins is in the same boat as the Bald Eagle. Would much prefer Harbrow in the team than both of these.

I hope it's not just Eagle and Higgins wearing the blame for the loss last night in your assessment.

[Mantis]

I hope it's not just Eagle and Higgins wearing the blame for the loss last night in your assessment.

Not at all. I was just adding Higgins name to The Underdog's assessment of Eagleton.