St Kilda

[GVGjr]

Apparently 5 players have nominated the Saints as their preferred destination

Howard joins Butler, Jones, Hill and Ryder have nominated the Saints as their preferred destination

Since when are the Saints a destination club? :)

I'm honestly surprised that Howard would pick them over North unless there is something else happening behind the scenes

[Grantysghost]

Apparently 5 players have nominated the Saints as their preferred destination

Howard joins Butler, Jones, Hill and Ryder have nominated the Saints as their preferred destination

Since when are the Saints a destination club? :)

I'm honestly surprised that Howard would pick them over North unless there is something else happening behind the scenes

Bruce might want to stay now :cool:

[1eyedog]

Haha. They're throwing the money around that's for sure. They got no marquee talent to pay and are likely paying overs for who they are bringing in. Our list is so far ahead of theirs it's not funny. Actually yes their list is pretty funny.

[bulldogtragic]

Bruce might want to stay now :cool:

No money left to pay him is the take away for me. Good for them though.

I suspect Bruce, Acres, Newnes & McKenzie are in the outs column though. Possibly future picks too.

[AshMac]

Haha. They're throwing the money around that's for sure. They got no marquee talent to pay and are likely paying overs for who they are bringing in. Our list is so far ahead of theirs it's not funny. Actually yes their list is pretty funny.

buuuuuut - they beat us. in the second half of the year when we had the flow

[lemmon]

If I was a Saint supporter, I'm not stoked. I don't think the list they have is good enough without going to the draft and they're going to lose one, if not two first rounders bringing these guys in.

Surely they're paying well over the odds in terms of wage too.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Howard is a great get for them - changes their off season in my eyes

Butler is fringe - Zak Jones solid and hopefully for them Brad Hill elite

[Happy Days]

Saints have never been any good at the trade table. Either get embarrassingly rolled or offer ridiculous overs for players to get them in. Offering plum draft picks for Hickey and Longer to play the same position in consecutive years is a particularly funny highlight.

[bulldogtragic]

Paddy Ryder, despite nominating St Kilda, spotted down at Carlton land today getting the tour.

At minimum it's interesting he's nominated St Kilda but still checking out other clubs.

[DOG GOD]

Saints give picks 6 and 59 to GWS and get picks 12 and 18 in return

[Mofra]

Saints give picks 6 and 59 to GWS and get picks 12 and 18 in return
Makes Hill even harder to get now.

https://www.afl.com.au/news/2019-10-10/the-stumbling-block-holding-up-the-hill-deal


ST KILDA and Fremantle are at a stalemate on Brad Hill, with the Dockers asking for the Saints' 2020 first-round selection to be part of the deal – on top of this year's pick six.

[Scorlibo]

Makes Hill even harder to get now.

https://www.afl.com.au/news/2019-10-10/the-stumbling-block-holding-up-the-hill-deal

What Fremantle are asking to receive in exchange for Hill is madness. He's a good outside player but he's no Tim Kelly.

Pick 6 by itself would almost be overs, considering the kind of quality you can get at pick 6 in recent times includes Stephenson, Wingard or Macrae - and for a whole career, not just five years.

[Testekill]

It's hilarious that the Saints probably shot themselves in the foot by trading away pick 6. Should've just stood firm about offering pick 6 and Freo would have probably ended up taking it. Instead Freo are going to be even more likely to turn it down because pick 18 will get eaten up by their NGA kid.

They got too clever and it's probably gonna bite them on the arse.

[jeemak]

What Fremantle are asking to receive in exchange for Hill is madness. He's a good outside player but he's no Tim Kelly.

Pick 6 by itself would almost be overs, considering the kind of quality you can get at pick 6 in recent times includes Stephenson, Wingard or Macrae - and for a whole career, not just five years.

Mate, absolutely!

I just don't see how Hill is worth what Fremantle is asking for him, like you I don't see him being worth pick six.

[Sedat]

It's hilarious that the Saints probably shot themselves in the foot by trading away pick 6. Should've just stood firm about offering pick 6 and Freo would have probably ended up taking it. Instead Freo are going to be even more likely to turn it down because pick 18 will get eaten up by their NGA kid.

They got too clever and it's probably gonna bite them on the arse.
I actually sympathise with them in this instance - they do have 5 players who have nominated to come to St Kilda, and pick 6 and some late picks weren't going to cut the mustard. Splitting pick 6 at least gives them more currency to get a number of these other deals done. It's not just about Hill.

Also it means they now will probably have to tap into next years first pick which hinders their currency for Ben King.

[1eyedog]

I have no sympathy for them. They sold the product to all of these players and now realise they've bit off more than they can chew. They can clean up their own mess. I hope they pay out their asses this year it will make getting King that much easier for us next year.

[Sedat]

I have no sympathy for them. They sold the product to all of these players and now realise they've bit off more than they can chew. They can clean up their own mess. I hope they pay out their asses this year it will make getting King that much easier for us next year.
Let me clarify, I hope their strategy blows up in their face :D

But I do understand why they've split pick 6 to get 12 and 18 as it gives them the tools to get more of these deals done. Remember that Grubby Allen is now involved in their list and trading team and he didn't come down from the last shower.

[1eyedog]

Splitting their early first is either very stupid (they miss out on Hill) or a masterstroke as they've called Freo's bluff and get him even cheaper than their original offer.

If it's 12 this year, for our sake, I hope Freo start demanding that and next year's first as well. That is way overs and is entering Tim Kelly territory but that's what Freo will be starting with on Monday. Will the Saints do it?

[bornadog]

Let me clarify, I hope their strategy blows up in their face :D

But I do understand why they've split pick 6 to get 12 and 18 as it gives them the tools to get more of these deals done. Remember that Grubby Allen is now involved in their list and trading team and he didn't come down from the last shower.

Splitting a first round is fine, but I wouldn't split a first rounder under 10, unless you feel the draft is very shallow. Perhaps they don't rate the top six players.

[GVGjr]

Sam Landsberger has come up with this potential line up for the Saints

B: Dylan Roberton, Dougal Howard (NEW), Jimmy Webster

HB: Zak Jones (NEW), Jake Carlisle, Nick Coffield

C: Dan Hannebery, Jack Steele, Brad Hill (NEW)

HF: Jack Billings, Tim Membrey, Dean Kent

F: Paddy Ryder (NEW), Max King (DEBUT), Dan Butler (NEW)

R: Rowan Marshall, Jade Gresham, Seb Ross

Inter: Josh Battle, Ben Long, Jarryn Geary, Hunter Clark

Emerg: Jack Sinclair, Matt Parker, Callum Wilkie, Luke Dunstan

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Sam Landsberger has come up with this potential line up for the Saints

B: Dylan Roberton, Dougal Howard (NEW), Jimmy Webster

HB: Zak Jones (NEW), Jake Carlisle, Nick Coffield

C: Dan Hannebery, Jack Steele, Brad Hill (NEW)

HF: Jack Billings, Tim Membrey, Dean Kent

F: Paddy Ryder (NEW), Max King (DEBUT), Dan Butler (NEW)

R: Rowan Marshall, Jade Gresham, Seb Ross

Inter: Josh Battle, Ben Long, Jarryn Geary, Hunter Clark

Emerg: Jack Sinclair, Matt Parker, Callum Wilkie, Luke Dunstan

Would rather coach the bulldogs list

[GVGjr]

Would rather coach the bulldogs list

Better than their list last year though

[Twodogs]

Better than their list last year though

It is but the bottom half dozen are pretty ordinary footballers.

[bornadog]

Are the Saints better off?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EHBg8AEUwAAVsko?format=jpg&name=large

[comrade]

Yeah, I think they should be pretty pleased with their efforts.

[bulldogtragic]

Blake Acres is an out too.

Outs:

Jack Steven, 4 X BF, gone for bugger all and they're paying some of his wage.
Josh Bruce, their most consistent KPF for years. Didn't seem happy with them.
Blake Acres, scope to be a good player. Blind sided and very unhappy initially with his name being thrown up.
Robbie Young, despite have a contract next year has been delisted and paid out.
Jack Newnes, looks out the door for nothing.

They're paying about $2.5M to:

Hill. Best winger. Huge trade cost and salary.
Ryder. If he's not cooked, he mustn't be far off cooked.
Jones. Struggles to consistently kick the footy where he wants to.
Butler. At the price ok.
Howard. Could be very good, but they must be certain to pay him $600,000 X 5.


It will sell memberships and I heard on trade radio they have a promo at the minute 'buy one get one free'. Their membership numbers are going to surge ahead of next year. Not that I wish for it, but it sounds like Carlisle is cooked, McCartin is going to struggle to play again and the Great White Hope Max King better not get injured.

They also threw a rediculous contract at Tomlinson and missed, and had a serious go at Keath, Ed Langdon, Martin and others. If you keep throwing out contracts paying overs to 10 or more players, you're bound to get five names (less three decent players, so two netted players).

It feels like a SuperCoach trade period that stands in isolation from anything and everything else. I don't see those ins make them a top 8 side next year and this sort of trading is all about that. Now they've only got a 1st and 2 X 4ths as their picks next year.

It's not all bad for them, but when you consider what they lost in players, no picks inside Pick 50 this year, and their limited 2020 draft hand (only one pick inside Pick 60 estimated), it's a good trade period for sure, but not as good as some are banging on about.

[Sedat]

Reckon they will miss Bruce a lot more than they envisage right now. Remember only 12 months ago when Jesse Hogan was not going to be a big loss to Melbourne's forward line because they already had Tom McDonald and the emerging superstar Sam Wiedeman?

[hujsh]

Reckon they will miss Bruce a lot more than they envisage right now. Remember only 12 months ago when Jesse Hogan was not going to be a big loss to Melbourne's forward line because they already had Tom McDonald and the emerging superstar Sam Wiedeman?

Betting the farm on Marshall and King being good to go next year as forwards

[comrade]

They had pick 5 and some post 50 rubbish to get 5 deals done and they somehow managed to do it while retaining their first pick next year, so in terms of wheeling and dealing, they get a tick, IMO.

But it says a lot about how poor their recent drafting and development has been, that they even needed to bring in 5 guys that will instantly slot into their best 22. I won't be surprised if there are cohesion issues next season and they don't rise like Saints fans are hoping.

[GVGjr]

Betting the farm on Marshall and King being good to go next year as forwards

I'd say they are investing in the future by providing more opportunities to both of them

They won't be super competitive in 2020 but are probably looking more at 2021

[hujsh]

I'd say they are investing in the future by providing more opportunities to both of them

They won't be super competitive in 2020 but are probably looking more at 2021

I suspect someone might need to tell some of their supporters that as with the addition of 3 pretty hyped up players (Howard, Jones and Hill) they'll be expecting more than that. Maybe not a premiership but certainly a significant rise.

[Twodogs]

I'd be happy if I were a St Kilda fan given they had bugger all draft picks and have managed to get the players (granted that they are not superstars but they got some solid role players into the club) who committed to them through the door.

This may not pay off this trade period but it well may pay off in future trade periods because people can see that when they commit to the Saints then the saints will try their best not to abandon them.

[Bulldog4life]

Blake Acres is an out too.

Outs:

Jack Steven, 4 X BF, gone for bugger all and they're paying some of his wage.
Josh Bruce, their most consistent KPF for years. Didn't seem happy with them.
Blake Acres, scope to be a good player. Blind sided and very unhappy initially with his name being thrown up.

They're paying about $2.5M to:

Hill. Best winger. Huge trade cost and salary.
Ryder. If he's not cooked, he mustn't be far off cooked.
Jones. Struggles to consistently kick the footy where he wants to.
Butler. At the price ok.
Howard. Could be very good, but they must be certain to pay him $600,000 X 5.


It will sell memberships and I heard on trade radio they have a promo at the minute 'buy one get one free'. Their membership numbers are going to surge ahead of next year. Not that I wish for it, but it sounds like Carlisle is cooked, McCartin is going to struggle to play again and the Great White Hope Max King better not get injured.

They also threw a rediculous contract at Tomlinson and missed, and had a serious go at Keath, Ed Langdon, Martin and others. If you keep throwing out contracts paying overs to 10 or more players, you're bound to get five names (less three decent players, so two netted players).

It feels like a SuperCoach trade period that stands in isolation from anything and everything else. I don't see those ins make them a top 8 side next year and this sort of trading is all about that. Now they've only got a 1st and 2 X 4ths as their picks next year.

It's not all bad for them, but when you consider what they lost in players, no picks inside Pick 50 this year, and their limited 2020 draft hand (only one pick inside Pick 60 estimated), it's a good trade period for sure, but not as good as some are banging on about.

3 of the players they recruited played Ressies during the season too. Not sure about Jones.

[Mofra]

3 of the players they recruited played Ressies during the season too. Not sure about Jones.
That includes Dougal Howard who will be an absolute gun KPD. Port played him out of position before dropping him.

[bornadog]

That includes Dougal Howard who will be an absolute gun KPD. Port played him out of position before dropping him.

Howard has potential, but still unknown till he proves it.

[1eyedog]

There all OK players Josh Bruce will kick between 50-70 goals for us next year.

[Mofra]

Howard has potential, but still unknown till he proves it.
Leading the comp in 1%ers in 2018 proves it for mine.
Hinkley wanted to make him a swingman, which I don't think he is.

[strebla]

This may not pay off this trade period but it well may pay off in future trade periods because people can see that when they commit to the Saints then the saints will try their best not to abandon them.

Spot on TD other clubs will also note this I think Essenscum and Caaaaaarrrrrlton need to have a real good look at how some clubs play the trading game or they will get passed over more and more often.

[dog town]

I would be very concerned if I was a saints fan. They are kind of caught between rebuilding and topping up. It feels like they had cap space so just got anyone they could. It will give them a spike but not sure it’s been great for their list build. Losing their best player and their best goal kicker hurts too.

[westdog54]

In terms of the result from the trade period itself, I think they've done reasonably well.

The problem is they've got very, very weak draft hands both this year and next and I'm not sure they're in a position to not be bringing in young talent at the moment.

They'll be considerably better on the field next year but they need to be able to keep Hannebery on the park, otherwise that trade will bite them in the arse in a big way.

[GVGjr]

In terms of the result from the trade period itself, I think they've done reasonably well.

The problem is they've got very, very weak draft hands both this year and next and I'm not sure they're in a position to not be bringing in young talent at the moment.

They'll be considerably better on the field next year but they need to be able to keep Hannebery on the park, otherwise that trade will bite them in the arse in a big way.

It's a fair point you raise but the new coach would have had his say in the direction they're taking and has obviously wanted to bring some experience in.
I don't think this will change much for them in 2020 but their fans probably wanted some hope and they've been given that

[Sedat]

Hill is a huge plus for them (especially under the roof at Marvel) but they had to pony up big to make it happen.
Howard is a potentially strong selection but he hasn't got massive amount of exposed form, very similar to Keath but at a bigget outlay (age is positive)
Ryder is cheap insurance but his best footy is behind him and he also excels as first ruck, not ruck-forward
Zak Jones is simply a mediocre AFL standard player and the hype far exceeds the output. He won't suddently become a better decision maker or ball user at his age.
Butler is steak knives and a handy addition to their forward set up, but he is behind about half a dozen players in similar roles at Richmond.

They did well to land their targets but I'm not sure all their targets will improve them a great deal. And they have compromosed their draft hand significantly for the next 2 years whilst also losing bankable quality in Bruce, Steven and potential quality in Acres.

[Topdog]

2 leading goalscorers last year were Membrey (44) & Bruce (36). Next after that was Parker with 16. They have lost massively in the forward line and will struggle massively next year due to it.
I think long term they will be better off but thats not what has been sold to their members

[BornInDroopSt'54]

AFL site rating Saints as having the #1 best trade period of all clubs and us at #3.
https://m.afl.com.au/news/2019-10-16/trade-period-ranked-from-worst-to-best-whos-in-out-draft-hand
Given that Jack Stevens only cost pick 58 I would have negotiated for him for Dogs.

[GVGjr]

AFL site rating Saints as having the #1 best trade period of all clubs and us at #3.
https://m.afl.com.au/news/2019-10-16/trade-period-ranked-from-worst-to-best-whos-in-out-draft-hand
Given that Jack Stevens only cost pick 58 I would have negotiated for him for Dogs.

The rankings don't mean much but full credit to the Saints for landing all of their targets

Having said that, I can't fault the way Sam Power and the team performed in addressing our lack of key position depth and quality.

No more excuses for losses now

[Doc26]

2 leading goalscorers last year were Membrey (44) & Bruce (36). Next after that was Parker with 16. They have lost massively in the forward line and will struggle massively next year due to it.
I think long term they will be better off but thats not what has been sold to their members

This is how I'm leaning as well TD. There's quite an onus on Max King, and particularly with any risk that he carries coming off his previous ACL. Losing Bruce, at least in the short term may put more defensive pressure on Membrey. I guess to counter this though is that they have brought Ryder in which will ease the load on Marshall to do all the heavy lifting in the forward half. If both Ryder and Max King can play their part then they should be OK up forward.

[Mantis]

The boom recruit from 12 months ago (Hanners) is in wars again having busted his leg slipping on some stairs at his sisters place.

Hardly an ideal situation for a player on big coin who couldn't get on the park this year.

[Sedat]

The boom recruit from 12 months ago (Hanners) is in wars again having busted his leg slipping on some stairs at his sisters place.

Hardly an ideal situation for a player on big coin who couldn't get on the park this year.
How unlucky and clumsy can one person be

[bulldogtragic]

Proper analysis:

Outs X 12:

1. Jack Steven, 4 X BF, gone for bugger all and they're paying some of his wage.
2. Josh Bruce, their most consistent KPF for years. Didn't seem happy with them.
3. Blake Acres, scope to be a good player. Blind sided and very unhappy initially with his name being thrown up.
4. Robbie Young, despite have a contract next year, against his desire, he has been delisted and paid out. A casualty of winning the trade period.
5. Jack Newnes, now going to Carlton.
6. Paddy McCrtin
7-12. Armitage, Longer, Pierce, Rowe, Rice, White (delisted)

They're paying about $2.5M to:

Hill. Best winger. Huge trade cost and salary of $900,000.
Ryder. If he's not cooked, he mustn't be far off cooked.
Jones. Struggles to consistently kick the footy where he wants to.
Butler. At the price ok.
Howard. Could be very good, but they must be certain about his ability and co sister you to pay him $600,000 X 5.


It will sell memberships and I heard on trade radio they have a promo at the minute 'buy one get one free'. Their membership numbers are going to surge ahead of next year. Not that I wish for it, but it sounds like Carlisle is cooked (they couldn't get trade interest at almost giving him away), McCartin is going to struggle to play again and the Great White Hope Max King better not get injured.

They also threw a rediculous contract at Tomlinson and missed, and had a serious go at Keath, Ed Langdon, Martin and others. If you keep throwing out contracts paying overs to 10 or more players, you're bound to get five names (less three decent players, so two netted players).

It feels like a SuperCoach trade period that stands in isolation from anything and everything else. I don't see those ins make them a top 8 side next year and this sort of trading is all about that. Now they've only got a 1st and 2 X 4ths as their picks next year.

It's not all bad for them, but when you consider what they lost in players, no picks inside Pick 50 this year, and their limited 2020 draft hand (only one pick inside Pick 60 estimated), it's a good trade period for sure, but not as good as some are banging on about.

[AshMac]

How unlucky and clumsy can one person be

Was mid morning but screams of being drunk...

[Twodogs]

Was mid morning but screams of being drunk...

He comes across as a bloke who enjoys a refreshing drink every now and then. Like Homer said when Marge called him out for drinking daqarais at 3am "hey I like waking up smashed"

[Mofra]

AFL site rating Saints as having the #1 best trade period of all clubs and us at #3.
https://m.afl.com.au/news/2019-10-16/trade-period-ranked-from-worst-to-best-whos-in-out-draft-hand
Given that Jack Stevens only cost pick 58 I would have negotiated for him for Dogs.
He was only going to Geelong. Has wanted to go there for the past two seasons.

St Kilda haven't fared that well with first round draft picks in recent times (they had two picks just before we took Naughton) so getting Hill (the best winger in the comp) and Howard (one of the best young KPPs going) is big.

Ryder might hurt Marshall rather than help, but with Howard they can do what they wanted to do last year - send Josh Battle forward. He's arguably their most promising young player, excluding Max King.

[bulldogtragic]

Proper analysis:

Outs X 12:

1. Jack Steven, 4 X BF, gone for bugger all and they're paying some of his wage.
2. Josh Bruce, their most consistent KPF for years. Didn't seem happy with them.
3. Blake Acres, scope to be a good player. Blind sided and very unhappy initially with his name being thrown up.
4. Robbie Young, despite have a contract next year, against his desire, he has been delisted and paid out. A casualty of winning the trade period.
5. Jack Newnes, now going to Carlton.
6. Paddy McCartin
7-12. Armitage, Longer, Pierce, Rowe, Rice, White (delisted)

They're paying about $2.5M to:

Hill. Best winger. Huge trade cost and salary of $900,000.
Ryder. If he's not cooked, he mustn't be far off cooked.
Jones. Struggles to consistently kick the footy where he wants to.
Butler. At the price ok.
Howard. Could be very good, but they must be certain about his ability and co sister you to pay him $600,000 X 5.


It will sell memberships and I heard on trade radio they have a promo at the minute 'buy one get one free'. Their membership numbers are going to surge ahead of next year. Not that I wish for it, but it sounds like Carlisle is cooked (they couldn't get trade interest at almost giving him away), McCartin is going to struggle to play again and the Great White Hope Max King better not get injured.

They also threw a rediculous contract at Tomlinson and missed, and had a serious go at Keath, Ed Langdon, Martin and others. If you keep throwing out contracts paying overs to 10 or more players, you're bound to get five names (less three decent players, so two netted players).

It feels like a SuperCoach trade period that stands in isolation from anything and everything else. I don't see those ins make them a top 8 side next year and this sort of trading is all about that. Now they've only got a 1st and 2 X 4ths as their picks next year.

It's not all bad for them, but when you consider what they lost in players, no picks inside Pick 50 this year, and their limited 2020 draft hand (only one pick inside Pick 60 estimated), it's a good trade period for sure, but not as good as some are banging on about.

Updated with Jack Newnes heading to Carlton, McCrtin delisted, now there's now 12 players out the door at Moorabbin (nearly 1/3 of the list). Which is huge, and the domino effect if after the five incoming players, they now have 6 spots open with late picks. How they manage this is going to be interesting.

[Mofra]

Updated with Jack Newnes heading to Carlton, there's now 11-12 players out the door at Moorabbin (nearly 1/3 of the list). Which is huge, and the domino effect if after the five incoming players, they may have 6-7 spots open with late picks. How they manage this is going to be interesting.
They'll have to pick up a recycled player or two just so they have mature depth, surely.

[bulldogtragic]

They'll have to pick up a recycled player or two just so they have mature depth, surely.

I don't think they have a choice other than to do that. Which is crazy, it's like they're topping up for another premiership. 12 turnover in one year is dangerous, from memory Carlton did 12 delistings/movements out in a year and brought list cloggers (ex. Jones eventually) in Jones & Tutt, Jaksch & Whiley etc. etc. The only difference is they has two picks under 50 (unlike St Kilda), but they picked Viojo-Rainbow and Boekhurst.

I give them Hill & Howard ($1.5M combined), maybe to Jones and no to Ryder (cooked) and Butler (fringe). Three picks on the bad side of Pick 50 this year (probably none under 60 next year) and two recycled players. They're potentially clogging up their list around two good recruits from the bottom part of the ladder.

The media was in love with Carlton too, two potentially great KPFs (one a competitive beast) and other good talents to fast forward their rebuild. Then they love that Carlton could get such talent like Boekhurst & Rainbow. They lost Waite, Garlett & Mitch Robinson. Now we all acknowledge that as the worst trade and draft period in history.

I can't say right now that St Kilda have done epicly well, or set them up for failure. But if only Hill & Howard become great players, then they're spending two off seasons clogging their list with late picks and delisted free agents. I'm not sure how that translates into a sustained attack for premiership/s. I'm not prepared to say from an overall list perspective that they've got the right strategy at a minimum. I will bookmark this and come back in a few years.

[Axe Man]

Have to laugh at this quote from Brad Hill about Richo being replaced by Ratten:


"I didn't know the coach change was going to happen, (but) obviously the players that are playing for the club aren't really going to change too much," Hill said.

Not too much change, only a quarter of the list.

[GVGjr]

Reports are that Patrick McCartin will be delisted by the Saints and he will take a break from football

[comrade]

Reports are that Patrick McCartin will be delisted by the Saints and he will take a break from football

Think it’s a good move for Paddy physically, hopefully he has plenty of support around him to get him through mentally.

[GVGjr]

Think it’s a good move for Paddy physically, hopefully he has plenty of support around him to get him through mentally.

He needs a lot of support, football is a long way off.

[bulldogtragic]

Josh Bruce - Go find another club, like now.
Paddy McCartin - For your own good, you're delisted.
Max King - I know you haven't played a single game, I know you've done an ACL, but no pressure you're the one.
Josh Battle - 11 goals in three years as mainly a defender, but no pressure but you are also the one as a KPF.
Paddy Ryder - We expect you to kick a goal this season for every birthday you've had. 43.
Tim Membrey - It's all on you.


Really? They knew McCartin was going, they knew Battle has limited games and more limited goals, they knew King has yet to debut, they know Ryder isn't what he used to be. And the priority was moving out Bruce so they could bring in Zac Jones?

Don't get me me wrong I'm very happy for us, but if I was a St Kilda member I'd be wondering what the hell is going on here. Leaving aside 12 outgoing players.

[GVGjr]

Josh Bruce - Go find another club, like now.
Paddy McCartin - For your own good, you're delisted.
Max King - I know you haven't played a single game, I know you've done an ACL, but no pressure you're the one.
Josh Battle - 11 goals in three years as mainly a defender, but no pressure but you are also the one as a KPF.
Paddy Ryder - We expect you to kick a goal this season for every birthday you've had. 43.
Tim Membrey - It's all on you.


Really? They knew McCartin was going, they knew Battle has limited games and more limited goals, they knew King has yet to debut, they know Ryder isn't what he used to be. And the priority was moving out Bruce so they could bring in Zac Jones?

Don't get me me wrong I'm very happy for us, but if I was a St Kilda member I'd be wondering what the hell is going on here. Leaving aside 12 outgoing players.

Sometimes a crisis creates opportunities
12 months earlier we backed Tom Boyd to play two key roles for us in 2019 (key forward and 2nd ruckman) knowing full well of his mental health challenges and the fact that his 2018 season was curtailed by a back injury and that didn't eventuate. We were lucky we sent a 19yo forward at late notice in a JLT game even though he worked with the defenders all summer and it ended up working out exceptionally well for us.
My biggest bugbear is that many clubs just don't plan for injuries or the loss of players even when they are clearly struggling.

The Saints at least now have some time to review their list

[mjp]

Don't get me me wrong I'm very happy for us, but if I was a St Kilda member I'd be wondering what the hell is going on here. Leaving aside 12 outgoing players.

I don’t know. I think St Kilda members would be a bit energised. At least they’re having a go...surely the alternative (rolling it back, using pick 6 etc) wasn’t too appealing to supporters. Slightly off topic but I don’t get the angst about Ryder. His old man played past 50...i’m Sure that he’ll be fine.

[bulldogtragic]

I don’t know. I think St Kilda members would be a bit energised. At least they’re having a go...surely the alternative (rolling it back, using pick 6 etc) wasn’t too appealing to supporters. Slightly off topic but I don’t get the angst about Ryder. His old man played past 50...i’m Sure that he’ll be fine.

In isolation perhaps, some bigger names is a nice sugar high. There seems to me a lack of coherent strategy to me. Moving out future 2nd and 3rds last year. Last year one pick under Pick 40 (Max King). This year no picks under Pick 50. Next year no picks probably inside 60. I'm not convinced they have the quality in the younger players to be avoiding the draft like Donald Trump and his 'bone spurs'. That's worrying to me.

Their defence looks better for Howard, but I doubt if Nathan Brown or Jake Carlisle are on their list by the end of next year. They want to move Battle forward, but we don't know for certain this will work. Max King is the chosen one and hasn't played a game yet. He may well be the one, but it's a gamble. So forcing Josh Bruce out when they knew McCartin was all but certain to be delisted seems short sighted or confusing.

The decision to move on 12 players out the door in one swoop is potentially dangerous. The last team to do it was Carlton under Malthouse who did a bit the same with Jaksch, Whiley, Jones, Tutt etc. etc. Their fans loved the aggressive stance which stimulated membership and interest. That's now considered the worst trade and draft period ever. I'm not suggesting that's staring down St Kilda, as Hill and Howard seem like good gets. The salary cap of circa $2.5M for the players seems a bit of overs.

So I still see a problem with one pick inside the top 40-60 for a three year period and a huge dump of 12 outs this year, including their best current KPF despite knowing McCartin was going too. If they had a solid group of top end kids (ie Naughton, Smith, English, Dunkley being added to say Bonts, Macrae, Schache etc) then I could understand them bypassing the draft and topping up at a flag. I just find most of what they've been doing confusing. If it works out for them, then good for them. But I don't see the lack of balance around their list for this three year block doing good things for them longer term. The sugar high is fine, but in say 3-4 years if they're still struggling away the review will look at many years bypassing the good end of the draft and the other list issues apparent.

[mjp]

I don’t disagree.

But for most saints people - coming off the Watters and Richardson years - they want to see a new and bold approach. They don’t want to finish 13th. They dont want the hope of the next first round pick, they want the certainty of Hill and Jones...they want to see the club spending the money in the cap to get better...

I wouldn’t do it but I understand what they are trying.

[bulldogtragic]

I don’t disagree.

But for most saints people - coming off the Watters and Richardson years - they want to see a new and bold approach. They don’t want to finish 13th. They dont want the hope of the next first round pick, they want the certainty of Hill and Jones...they want to see the club spending the money in the cap to get better...

I wouldn’t do it but I understand what they are trying.

That’s why I’m glad I’ll never ever run a footy club. It must be a very hard gig to balance what you ‘need’ now to keep your people enthused and engaged versus what you ‘need’ for the longer term. Especially if there’s a divergence. North in a similar spot went the opposite way. Tough gig to balance all the ‘needs’ at a club.

[macca]

I hope all the best for Mc cartin , as the head injuries are series for him to make such a call and priority
Bruce must be relieved
His got schache and naughton as the two towers and some good crumbers at his feet and potentially even more if cavarra can debut
And west to play more games.
I’m looking forward to our fowrd line next season and Bruce kicking 50+ goals

[soupman]

I don't disagree BT, and i think my point supports your argument, but Battle was fantastic in defence this season and i expect they see his future there. Also explains his low goal tally.

[soupman]

Also i get their change of tact.

The Saints have spent pretty much every year since Lyon left rebuilding "the right way" via the draft and have been largely poor.

Despite it being the prevailing mentality in AFL i dont believe clubs need to always be building towards a flag. The Saints recruits put them into a position where they have more quality on the list. I think theoretically it bring their base performanc level up higher, and solidifies their position as being at least a mid tier team.

They can sit on that for a year or two and then build from there, instead of another false start rebuild.

[bulldogtragic]

I don't disagree BT, and i think my point supports your argument, but Battle was fantastic in defence this season and i expect they see his future there. Also explains his low goal tally.

Yep, you can reply all the time! :D

Some of the trade radio/ trade podcasts talked about Howard releasing Battle to go back forward. That’s assuming Carlisle can get back on the park. Let’s say he stays back, there’s just Membrey and King (who hasn’t played a game) as genuine forwards with McCartin cut & Bruce shoved out. Knowing they were moving on McCartin, the move to push Bruce out is either strange, or a reflection of poor list management where the constant trade of decent picks leaves them no options to move out a quality player.

Whatever their strategy is, to get Bruce whose career stats aren’t far off Joe Daniher for just a second and third rounder makes us a beneficiary of their strategy. I’m thankful for that.

Back to us, I can now even more appreciate what our recruiters and list managers have been doing. That is, laying the foundation, getting elite draftsmen, putting the frame up, getting the blue collar trades to do blue collar things, putting the roof up and now working on finishing ($700,000 under budget). Good to be us.

[bornadog]

Saints first round drafting has been very weak and they have traded away their first rounder a few times.



2012
0




2013
Jack Billings
Luke Dunstan
Blake Acres, now Freo


2014
Patrick McCartin
Hugh Goddard
Now Carlton


2015
Jade Gresham




2016
0




2017
Hunter Clark
Nicholas Coffield



2018
Jack Mayo
Max King
Zero games



2012, 2016 and now 2019 no picks. 2014 unlucky with McCartin, 2018 yet to play.

They have tried their luck a few times to trade for stars, but their list is in my opinion still not where it should be.

However, Saints fans will be happy they have traded for some players and that will give them hope.

[bulldogtragic]

Saints first round drafting has been very weak and they have traded away their first rounder a few times.



2012
0




2013
Jack Billings
Luke Dunstan
Blake Acres, now Freo


2014
Patrick McCartin
Hugh Goddard
Now Carlton


2015
Jade Gresham




2016
0




2017
Hunter Clark
Nicholas Coffield



2018
Jack Mayo
Max King
Zero games



2012, 2016 and now 2019 no picks. 2014 unlucky with McCartin, 2018 yet to play.

They have tried their luck a few times to trade for stars, but their list is in my opinion still not where it should be.

However, Saints fans will be happy they have traded for some players and that will give them hope.

2019: No picks inside 50
2020: One pick inside 60

2012-2020 looks erratic at best. Add in targeting known injury cases like Carlisle & Hannerbury, while trading mature players out like Bruce, Steven, Hickey, Acres, Newnes.

As you say, if they have hope now then good luck to them. But I wouldn't want to inherit that list in a few years.

[Grantysghost]

2019: No picks inside 50
2020: One pick inside 60

2012-2020 looks erratic at best. Add in targeting known injury cases like Carlisle & Hannerbury, while trading mature players out like Bruce, Steven, Hickey, Acres, Newnes.

As you say, if they have hope now then good luck to them. But I wouldn't want to inherit that list in a few years.


It's a bold strategy that's for sure. Saints supporters I've spoken to are all for it as they believe their list was very b or c grade weighted. My own opinion as someone who is a little on the conservative side is that it's too deep a cut. Bruce is especially fascinating. They've really got no cover. Membrey? As BT has exposed earlier this is a real crack at it now and it does make me think that guys like Lethlean and Finnis are disruptive executives in philosophy which may be what they need. I'm very interested to see how it all plays out.

[Go_Dogs]

I'm not sure they shoved Bruce out. He was contracted and wanted an extension on reasonable dollars which St Kilda weren't willing to do at this stage. Every chance he stayed and got a one or two year extension, but player wanted more security and club were prepared to facilitate.

[Twodogs]

I'm not sure they shoved Bruce out. He was contracted and wanted an extension on reasonable dollars which St Kilda weren't willing to do at this stage. Every chance he stayed and got a one or two year extension, but player wanted more security and club were prepared to facilitate.

He may have wanted to play with a club that actually wins things too. That ain't ever going to happen at St Kilda. Certainly not in the next few years.

We can at least offer him the chance of dancing on the dais in September. .

[bulldogtragic]

What a dumpster fire...

- Frawley, Carlisle, McKernan & Ryder surely can’t go on. Four KPPs.
- Big money tied up in Hill & Crouch, not commensurate to their output.
- Hannebery is over 30 and hasn’t played this year.
- Howard is an expensive option when their mids won’t defend to help him out.
- Geary is 33 in two months.
- One draft pick inside the top 40 this year.
- Questions over their fragility.
- While exiting Bruce & Hickey for not huge return.

Their list manager would be sacked for either horrifically misjudging their list, or worse, he knew but wanted to go full Dodoro to win trade weeks. What they have proactively created is about as bad a situation that I could hypothesise. I can’t work out if they’ll double down or try to rebuild which means they let some free agents go like Billing’s. They’re on their way back into no mans land they’ve been in for a decade.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Yeah they’ve gone for shallow wins to attract excitement and attention over building a list that sustains success over the long term.

They surprised me last year. I kept thinking there’s no way this list can be any good. Not even a 1 year blip. I suppose the COVID shortened quarters helped them a bit. Now they’re back to where I expected them.

[DOG GOD]

The Marshall/Ryder combo were the reason that were so good last year, and the years that their recruits had in Hill, Jones, Butler and Howard.

Last night as good as we were, they were really pathetic, and after those 2 shanks from set shots, they truly dropped their heads and we went in for the kill. Last year they played as a team. This year, nothing like it.

[GVGjr]

What a dumpster fire...

- Frawley, Carlisle, McKernan & Ryder surely can’t go on. Four KPPs.
- Big money tied up in Hill & Crouch, not commensurate to their output.
- Hannebery is over 30 and hasn’t played this year.
- Howard is an expensive option when their mids won’t defend to help him out.
- Geary is 33 in two months.
- One draft pick inside the top 40 this year.
- Questions over their fragility.
- While exiting Bruce & Hickey for not huge return.

Their list manager would be sacked for either horrifically misjudging their list, or worse, he knew but wanted to go full Dodoro to win trade weeks. What they have proactively created is about as bad a situation that I could hypothesise. I can’t work out if they’ll double down or try to rebuild which means they let some free agents go like Billing’s. They’re on their way back into no mans land they’ve been in for a decade.

Add Daniel Hannebery as someone tied up with a lot of salary as well and he is signed until the end of 2023.

[bornadog]

Yeah they’ve gone for shallow wins to attract excitement and attention over building a list that sustains success over the long term.

They surprised me last year. I kept thinking there’s no way this list can be any good. Not even a 1 year blip. I suppose the COVID shortened quarters helped them a bit. Now they’re back to where I expected them.

In a way I don't count last year. 17 games only with 5 short of a full season, anything could have happened in those 5 games.

My post (number 70) shows how they have not built a proper foundation of young talent coming through, and then topped with some established players.

[Happy Days]

They tried to queue jump on the back of hitting the draft hard for years because that's where the state of their list should have been at, but they've vastly overestimated the quality of their top picks and it's going to end them for years.

Of all their top picks I can't think of one of any real quality. King will probably end up very good but isn't right now (despite what the state-controlled media will tell you), Clark is nothing more than okay, Coffield can't get a game, Gresham is never out there, and so on. They need to make some changes in their recruitment staff and fast, and probably try to get off some of these horrible contracts they've subjected themselves to.

[jeemak]

What's happened over the past year or so was a classic sugar hit, whereby you had all of Ryder, Butler, Marshal, Hannebury, Jones and Hill etc. coming in and playing as well as they all could at the same time.

Given our cycles were relatively aligned post the 2008-2012 period it satisfies me knowing that after that time we've rebuilt, won a flag, rebuilt/ partially rebuilt (or whatever GVGjr will allow me to call it :) ) and seem to be doing better than they are again - albeit having lost a final to them last year.

Ratten has a huge task on his hands.

[bulldogtragic]

What's happened over the past year or so was a classic sugar hit, whereby you had all of Ryder, Butler, Marshal, Hannebury, Jones and Hill etc. coming in and playing as well as they all could at the same time.

Given our cycles were relatively aligned post the 2008-2012 period it satisfies me knowing that after that time we've rebuilt, won a flag, rebuilt/ partially rebuilt (or whatever GVGjr will allow me to call it :) ) and seem to be doing better than they are again - albeit having lost a final to them last year.

Ratten has a huge task on his hands.

You think Ratten will be around. With the way players refused to chase, run to the next contest, stand on our goal line to touch at least of Goals they could’ve touched, and the shit body language and at times open disinterest, I’m waiting for the questions about whether he’s ‘lost the players’. They need a patsy to take the fall for the members, he’s as good as any. The fact being the list manager, his team and relevant committee people should all be sacked right now.

[jeemak]

You think Ratten will be around. With the way players refused to chase, run to the next contest, stand on our goal line to touch at least of Goals they could’ve touched, and the shit body language and at times open disinterest, I’m waiting for the questions about whether he’s ‘lost the players’. They need a patsy to take the fall for the members, he’s as good as any. The fact being the list manager, his team and relevant committee people should all be sacked right now.

Here's the guy who needs to go (and for some reason has an extensive Wikipedia page which is gobsmacking and not at the same time given who he is) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Lethlean

I can imagine given his footballing background he thought it was just as simple as getting good players in like it is in some of the lesser comps like the Ammos, but AFL footy is a different sport and much more detailed when it comes to building lists.

[1eyedog]

What a dumpster fire...

- Frawley, Carlisle, McKernan & Ryder surely can’t go on. Four KPPs.
- Big money tied up in Hill & Crouch, not commensurate to their output.
- Hannebery is over 30 and hasn’t played this year.
- Howard is an expensive option when their mids won’t defend to help him out.
- Geary is 33 in two months.
- One draft pick inside the top 40 this year.
- Questions over their fragility.
- While exiting Bruce & Hickey for not huge return.

Their list manager would be sacked for either horrifically misjudging their list, or worse, he knew but wanted to go full Dodoro to win trade weeks. What they have proactively created is about as bad a situation that I could hypothesise. I can’t work out if they’ll double down or try to rebuild which means they let some free agents go like Billing’s. They’re on their way back into no mans land they’ve been in for a decade.

That's just about the perfect post.

[bulldogtragic]

Here's the guy who needs to go (and for some reason has an extensive Wikipedia page which is gobsmacking and not at the same time given who he is) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Lethlean

I can imagine given his footballing background he thought it was just as simple as getting good players in like it is in some of the lesser comps like the Ammos, but AFL footy is a different sport and much more detailed when it comes to building lists.

Bains coming to us has caused them a world of pain. I’m amazed that this incompetence from him and also Ned Guy at Collingwood can happen in organisation’s with a ton of cash and apparent oversight by their own organisation and the AFEL. Makes you appreciate our key off field people even more.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I just don’t think their midfield stacks up. Who’s gonna hurt you? Steele is great but he’s still quite vanilla. They really could have used Treloar.

[mjp]

What a dumpster fire...

- Frawley, Carlisle, McKernan & Ryder surely can’t go on. Four KPPs.
- Big money tied up in Hill & Crouch, not commensurate to their output.
- Hannebery is over 30 and hasn’t played this year.
- Howard is an expensive option when their mids won’t defend to help him out.
- Geary is 33 in two months.
- One draft pick inside the top 40 this year.
- Questions over their fragility.
- While exiting Bruce & Hickey for not huge return.


Again, things are not as bad as they seem.

Set Frawley and McKernan aside - moneyball style, depth selections...Carlisle and Marshall injured? They play. No biggie.
I'll come back to Hill and Crouch.
Hannebery hasn't worked.
Howard is awesome...not sure of the criticism there.
Geary has been great. You give your 33 yo captain another year to 'prove it' - plus, not a big money player.

Hill was always a roll of the dice gamble that worked for a while. He has been electric for the past couple of weeks - rubbish last night and earlier in the year. He's an outside mid...is he worth the $? Prob not...but in terms of recruiting, he was a good choice.

I thought Crouch was wrong for them as he is just an accumulator...and by committing to him so early (think Sam Lloyd and Mitch Hannan for us) you limit yourself from selecting other players - in this case, they probably could have gotten involved with the Treloar recruitment.

I think they're going to be fine. The players are simply not defending and that cannot be quickly turned around...they PRESSURE around the ball (well, against Geelong they did) but that isn't the same as defending - sacrificing the potential for possession for the betterment of the side...it is going to take some time to work through.

I still look at their list and with King, Marshall, Howard they have some good talls and a reasonable fleet of mids...just have to play better.

[bulldogtragic]

Fair counter points. Howard can dead set play, I’m suggesting if you pay big dollars for him then for gods sake other 21 players help him do his job, defend. Give him a chop out, block his opponents run, anything to help him. He alone can stop everything. My criticism is of his team mates refusal to defend, not actually of Howard.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

What's happened over the past year or so was a classic sugar hit, whereby you had all of Ryder, Butler, Marshal, Hannebury, Jones and Hill etc. coming in and playing as well as they all could at the same time.

Given our cycles were relatively aligned post the 2008-2012 period it satisfies me knowing that after that time we've rebuilt, won a flag, rebuilt/ partially rebuilt (or whatever GVGjr will allow me to call it :) ) and seem to be doing better than they are again - albeit having lost a final to them last year.

Ratten has a huge task on his hands.
Always a risk to bring in so many players from other Clubs who have under performed with Howard being the possible exception.
Compared to our recruitment it has been a disaster, considering where St. Kilda finished last year. Not unlike Collingwood who similarly have made a mess of their recruitment policy.

[Mofra]

Over the past 8 years they have taken 5 mids at the draft. That seems much lower than other clubs.

I'm not sure you can put up an entire midfield of players traded in (Zac Jones, Steele, Crouch) and expect 100% buy in from everyone. There simply has to be some drafted & developed players in there. Hunter Clark should play midfield (but doesn't), Byrne was arguably their best last weekend as a 'decent' developing type and Bytel battles hard.

Howard, King and Marshall are a decent framework and I like Battle either end (he's no wingman so god knows why he's played there). They also have no 2nd, 3rd or 4th round picks this year. Billings is a finisher but he's not the type you build a list around and they've had a number of close drafting misses too (Billings over Bont, McCartin over Petracca, Clark and Coffield over Naughton).

[Dry Rot]

The fish rots from the head down

https://www.afl.com.au/news/620556/damage-control-saints-president-s-mind-boggling-backflip

[bulldogsthru&thru]

The fish rots from the head down

https://www.afl.com.au/news/620556/damage-control-saints-president-s-mind-boggling-backflip

Such an absurd thing to say. Imagine recruiting a bunch of 28-30 year olds and then saying you weren’t expecting to compete. I’d be ropable if I were a saints fan. But I’m not so I’m not.

[Grantysghost]

Such an absurd thing to say. Imagine recruiting a bunch of 28-30 year olds and then saying you weren’t expecting to compete. I’d be ropable if I were a saints fan. But I’m not so I’m not.

Hard to believe someone like Lethlean would steer the ship asunder.

[bornadog]

Such an absurd thing to say. Imagine recruiting a bunch of 28-30 year olds and then saying you weren’t expecting to compete. I’d be ropable if I were a saints fan. But I’m not so I’m not.

I thought you and some other posters were praising Saints last year on their recruiting and how they have done so well?

[macca]

Hard to believe someone like Lethlean would steer the ship asunder.

AFL had to hide him somewhere after the alledge incident

I would be disgusted as a StKilda fan. Not even bother to sign up next year

The players now have probably lost respect for management, when their head of their organisation says that .

Any of their players we can pickup when their moral is down ?

[Twodogs]

The fish rots from the head down

https://www.afl.com.au/news/620556/damage-control-saints-president-s-mind-boggling-backflip

A classic "don't blame me" from the president. It can't be long before Ratten gets the full support of the board.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I thought you and some other posters were praising Saints last year on their recruiting and how they have done so well?

Thanks for bringing that up BAD!

I was praising them last season. They were playing much better than expected. But I always thought their recruiting was a little suss and short-sighted. It was never going to get them much past 6th. We're going for a flag. Multiple. They're trying to get attention by making a final. In the back of my mind I was hoping for this drop off as I didn't believe they had gone about their list build the right way. I'm just surprised the drop came this early. Injuries haven't helped them (they have zero depth) and Coffield and Long haven't come on. I still think they did well to bring in Howard, Ryder and Butler. With the impact Martin has had for us, imagine what Ryder could have done. Howard would have been a nice option down back and Butler, well I was suspect of his form last season but credit to him, he was almost AA and we were crying out for a small forward. Remember last season we were desperate for a ruck, KPD and small forward. Each of those guys had a large impact for the saints last year. I was complimentary of those recruits but not their overall list build.

Things have changed dramatically for both them and us this year. We look a completely different outfit to the meek and mild one from the EF last season. The saints are better than they are going this season but I never thought their list was better than ours. Ours is built for the long haul. Theirs is poorly built to win now, despite what their president is saying.

[EasternWest]

The fish rots from the head down

https://www.afl.com.au/news/620556/damage-control-saints-president-s-mind-boggling-backflip

Because I'm a pedant I can't stand the term "backflip" for a change of stance. If you backflip, you end up facing the same way.
Surely "about turn" is a better term?

[bulldogtragic]

Because I'm a pedant I can't stand the term "backflip" for a change of stance. If you backflip, you end up facing the same way.
Surely "about turn" is a better term?

Lie.

It’s accurate and succinct.

[Twodogs]

Because I'm a pedant I can't stand the term "backflip" for a change of stance. If you backflip, you end up facing the same way.
Surely "about turn" is a better term?

The one that annoys me is when someone says "I was talking to them on the phone and they turned around and said to me"

If you are talking on the phone how do you know that they turned around?

[EasternWest]

The one that annoys me is when someone says "I was talking to them on the phone and they turned around and said to me"

If you are talking on the phone how do you know that they turned around?

The sound of air rushing in the mouthpiece.

[The bulldog tragician]

The sound of air rushing in the mouthpiece.

Those posters who speak about Billing’s. The only thing that could be worse is if people began writing Caleb Daniel’s.

[EasternWest]

Those posters who speak about Billing’s. The only thing that could be worse is if people began writing Caleb Daniel’s.

You've lost me. Mind you I am easily confused.

[The bulldog tragician]

You've lost me. Mind you I am easily confused.
Agh, I was continuing with the ‘things that annoy me’ theme.

[EasternWest]

Agh, I was continuing with the ‘things that annoy me’ theme.

Oh ha ha. Yes I agree. You may proceed.

[Twodogs]

Agh, I was continuing with the ‘things that annoy me’ theme.

I got it. Same thing with Ryan Hargraves.

[westdog54]

I got it. Same thing with Ryan Hargraves.

His name is Daniel, not Ryan.

[Bulldog Joe]

His name is Daniel, not Ryan.

Only that was Daniel Hargreaves.

So many easy faults to find for us grammar/spelling nazis.

I have learnt to let it slide. Mostly

[westdog54]

Only that was Daniel Hargreaves.

So many easy faults to find for us grammar/spelling nazis.

I have learnt to let it slide. Mostly

Was trying to share a joke with Twodogs.

Need a sarcasm button.

[Bulldog Joe]

Was trying to share a joke with Twodogs.

Need a sarcasm button.

I understand and thought I was adding to it.

[Twodogs]

Only that was Daniel Hargreaves.

So many easy faults to find for us grammar/spelling nazis.

I have learnt to let it slide. Mostly

You're talking about the singer from Silverchair.

[Mantis]

It was pretty damning that St.Kilda had an older & more experienced team in on Saturday night.

You can't be beat by 100+ points when you only have 3 players in who have played under 50 games... you just can't. (Nth had 12 under 50 games when we gave them a touch up)

[Twodogs]

It was pretty damning that St.Kilda had an older & more experienced team in on Saturday night.

You can't be beat by 100+ points when you only have 3 players in who have played under 50 games... you just can't. (Nth had 12 under 50 games when we gave them a touch up)

Yep they just gave up. You don't often see a team just give up. Usually at least after a break and early in a quarter you will see someone lay a tackle or run back with the flight and take a mark but they were just abysmal from the start of the second quarter to the end of the game.

Maybe Byrnes put in the odd effort but the rest (especially some of the senior guys) were terribly ordinary.

[Twodogs]

BTW the last three 100 point margin games have been by us. Essendon, North and St Kilda.

[jeemak]

You're talking about the singer from Silverchair.

Not John Daniels, no.

[Twodogs]

Not John Daniels, no.

Did you know that he is related to Caleb Daniels? Cousins I think.

[Dry Rot]

St Kilda uses Deliveroo to make their team selections, which might explain a lot

https://www.saints.com.au/news/945811/deliveroo-team-selection-debutant-among-four-changes-to-take-on-roos

[bornadog]

St Kilda uses Deliveroo to make their team selections, which might explain a lot

https://www.saints.com.au/news/945811/deliveroo-team-selection-debutant-among-four-changes-to-take-on-roos

They said they would swing the axe, but 3 out due to injury and dropped 2

[Bulldog Joe]

They said they would swing the axe, but 3 out due to injury and dropped 2

and avoided the real culprits.

They really needed to make an example with Brad Hill

[Dry Rot]

They really needed to make an example with Brad Hill

They do not want to damage their VFL team.

[macca]

They said they would swing the axe, but 3 out due to injury and dropped 2

They swung the axe, but there was nothing but dead wood left!

Their list is totally stuffed, they cannot even drop Hill. Geeze, Freeman might have been a handy pickup.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Ratten came out today and essentially said they don't have enough depth to drop anyone!

Thought he was going to say it was because of COVID seeing as though no VFL means the dropped players couldn't play this weekend.

[bulldogtragic]

Ratten came out today and essentially said they don't have enough depth to drop anyone!

Thought he was going to say it was because of COVID seeing as though no VFL means the dropped players couldn't play this weekend.

What they have to tell themselves to sleep at night. They don’t want the headlines of dropping Hill which they should’ve done. I mean, we dropped Tom Boyd in 2016 and he came back a different player late in the season to the GF. We did a similar thing with Stringer too. No one should be safe from pathetic performance no matter their surname or salary. I guess that’s why we are at where we are at and they’re a dumpster fire.

[bulldogtragic]

Remember those crazy rumours about us chasing Jack Lonie. If they were true thank god we woke up. Averaging over 8 games just 12 disposals, two tackles and a grand total 4 goals, 4 behinds. His four goals came in two games, so 6 games he’s gone goalless. As an experienced forward.

He’s every chance to be delisted. And I’m even more wrapt he’s not clogging up our list.

[Bulldog Joe]

Remember those crazy rumours about us chasing Jack Lonie. If they were true thank god we woke up. Averaging over 8 games just 12 disposals, two tackles and a grand total 4 goals, 4 behinds. His four goals came in two games, so 6 games he’s gone goalless. As an experienced forward.

He’s every chance to be delisted. And I’m even more wrapt he’s not clogging up our list.

Also a very good reason to not be too concerned with other clubs cast offs

How many were bemoaning us missing Dan Butler. He should have been dropped ahead of Bytel at least.

[Happy Days]

Remember those crazy rumours about us chasing Jack Lonie. If they were true thank god we woke up. Averaging over 8 games just 12 disposals, two tackles and a grand total 4 goals, 4 behinds. His four goals came in two games, so 6 games he’s gone goalless. As an experienced forward.

He’s every chance to be delisted. And I’m even more wrapt he’s not clogging up our list.

I was into it but had doubts over his quickness, which has become all the more important for players in his spot. He’s fallen way behind and seems destined to kick 200 goals in the VAFA next year.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I was into it but had doubts over his quickness, which has become all the more important for players in his spot. He’s fallen way behind and seems destined to kick 200 goals in the VAFA next year.

What leads to players such as Butler, Lloyd, Gowers etc??

Fringe player at a club after having done some random good things for them. Gets traded to another club and in the first year absolutely kills it to win the goal kicking. Then after that they plummet back to their typical lows and soon enough delisted from recognition. I find it strange how they can play good enough to lead a club in goal kicking for a year and then basically vanish after that.

[bulldogtragic]

What they have to tell themselves to sleep at night. They don’t want the headlines of dropping Hill which they should’ve done. I mean, we dropped Tom Boyd in 2016 and he came back a different player late in the season to the GF. We did a similar thing with Stringer too. No one should be safe from pathetic performance no matter their surname or salary. I guess that’s why we are at where we are at and they’re a dumpster fire.

I was wrong on Hill. His 6 disposals in 103 minutes of time on field was clearly the difference in beating North by 20 points.

[DOG GOD]

I was wrong on Hill. His 6 disposals in 103 minutes of time on field was clearly the difference in beating North by 20 points.
I never thought Ratten to be a weak coach, but it seems he is. Hill should’ve been made an example of 4 weeks ago, and where to now for the match committee. A saints friend of mine said Hill should be dropped but they only had 28 players to choose from against NM. I replied “yeah but some young kid playing his first game would’ve got more than 6 disposals against NM”. Ratten needs to pull some heads in...very very quickly.

[GVGjr]

There are some things to learn from both the Saints this year and us last season.

The Saints haven't been able to get the two ruckman that served them well last season on the park on a regular basis and we have looked a lot better since embracing having two ruckman in the line-up.

We stuck with the out of form Bruce last year and the Saints are doing the same this year with Hill. I think it sends a bad message across the playing group when players are selected regardless of form.

When we played poorly last year we coughed up some big losses and the Saints are doing the same this year.

After winning a final last year and having an impressive season the Saints thought it was just a case of topping up for 2021 and in comparison we added the experience of Martin, Treloar, Hannan and of course the number one draft pick.
Who knows what our approach to managing the list will be at the end of this season but there could be some lessons to learn from the way the Saints went about it.

For me, I think it just goes to show how quickly form and therefore the perception of how strong your list is can change at a club.

[DOG GOD]

There are some things to learn from both the Saints this year and us last season.

The Saints haven't been able to get the two ruckman that served them well last season on the park on a regular basis and we have looked a lot better since embracing having two ruckman in the line-up.

We stuck with the out of form Bruce last year and the Saints are doing the same this year with Hill. I think it sends a bad message across the playing group when players are selected regardless of form.

When we played poorly last year we coughed up some big losses and the Saints are doing the same this year.

After winning a final last year and having an impressive season the Saints thought it was just a case of topping up for 2021 and in comparison we added the experience of Martin, Treloar, Hannan and of course the number one draft pick.
Who knows what our approach to managing the list will be at the end of this season but there could be some lessons to learn from the way the Saints went about it.

For me, I think it just goes to show how quickly form and therefore the perception of how strong your list is can change at a club.

And it would be the confidence Marshall/Ryder would’ve brought to the group. At one stage both weren’t playing and the team looked VFL standard. Hill, butler, coffield and a few others, look shadows of their former selves. With no defensive pressure Howard looks like a deer in headlights after looking so strong last year. The new additions of Higgins and Crouch haven’t set the world on fire. My saints mate reckons they are in for some serious pain if they can’t get Marshall back to 100% fitness.

[bornadog]

Carlton legend Stephen Silvagni has been announced as St Kilda's new list manager.

Good luck with that one.

[GVGjr]

Carlton legend Stephen Silvagni has been announced as St Kilda's new list manager.

Good luck with that one.

He's a good list manager.

Did I hear Gubby Allan is also heading their way?

They've done very well with their additions to the club.

[Grantysghost]

Carlton legend Stephen Silvagni has been announced as St Kilda's new list manager.

Good luck with that one.

GWS fringe players have entered the chat.

[The Underdog]

Carlton legend Stephen Silvagni has been announced as St Kilda's new list manager.

Good luck with that one.

So all the A listers get poached by Richmond and the failed 1st rounders go to St Kilda instead of Carlton. Got it.

[soupman]

GWS fringe players have entered the chat.

Does Silvagni show his versatility and add Carlton fringe guys to his shortlist too?

The more I think about it Mitch McGovern is right up St.Kilda's alley.

[bornadog]

SOS was an assistant coach to Lyon at Saints many moons ago.

[bornadog]

Geoff Walsh stepping down as Chief of Football at Saints only months since being appointed.

So they have lost in the off season

* List Manager
* CEO
* Head of Footy
* Head Coach

[GVGjr]

Geoff Walsh stepping down as Chief of Football at Saints only months since being appointed.

Well that is a blow to their off field recruiting. I wonder why?

[bornadog]

Well that is a blow to their off field recruiting. I wonder why?

He says Personal reasons

see article here (https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/geoff-walsh-stepping-down-as-saints-head-of-football-20230130-p5cgjl.html)

[GVGjr]

He says Personal reasons

see article here (https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/geoff-walsh-stepping-down-as-saints-head-of-football-20230130-p5cgjl.html)

Thanks, just saw that.

[Mofra]

Adding SOS to a club that has tried to trade their way into a rebuild is a dangerous move.
It's not fringe GWS guys he'll seek out, it's fringe Carlton guys. Some of them are decent footballers who I like watching (Fisher, Cuningham) but not the types you build a club around.

[GVGjr]

Adding SOS to a club that has tried to trade their way into a rebuild is a dangerous move.
It's not fringe GWS guys he'll seek out, it's fringe Carlton guys. Some of them are decent footballers who I like watching (Fisher, Cuningham) but not the types you build a club around.

I listened to a lot of trade radio last year and SOS was on there a fair bit and while I think he did a good job when he was at Carlton and got plenty of deals done in terms of trades etc I was really surprised that he was so far off the mark on his knowledge of how deals might be struck last year. The way he valued picks vs players was way off. Clearly he hadn't stayed on top on the changes in the footy world during his time away from the list management.

He will get back up to speed quickly enough.

[bornadog]

Stephen Silvagni has turned to Carlton’s VFL list to address St Kilda’s shortage of tall forwards.


19yo Anthony Caminiti has been added to the Saints’ squad and will trial for the vacant list spot before the February 15 deadline

[Axe Man]

Stephen Silvagni has turned to Carlton’s VFL list to address St Kilda’s shortage of tall forwards.


19yo Anthony Caminiti has been added to the Saints’ squad and will trial for the vacant list spot before the February 15 deadline

And so it begins. I heard Fev has dusted off his boots in anticipation.

[Grantysghost]

And so it begins. I heard Fev has dusted off his boots in anticipation.

He really does his homework; a vast network of spies at his behest.

[azabob]

Talk that their Head of Performance Nick Walsh has also resigned.

[azabob]

Stephen Silvagni has turned to Carlton’s VFL list to address St Kilda’s shortage of tall forwards.


19yo Anthony Caminiti has been added to the Saints’ squad and will trial for the vacant list spot before the February 15 deadline

He's been a bloody good pick up for them. Hopefully he can add some more versatility to his game. Exciting pack mark.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Talk that their Head of Performance Nick Walsh has also resigned.

Not getting along with Ross the boss? Wouldn't be the first time.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

He's been a bloody good pick up for them. Hopefully he can add some more versatility to his game. Exciting pack mark.

It's pretty crazy how many of the saints' current best players have come from nowhere. Steele, Sinclair, Wilkie, Marshall, Wood all either rookies or delistings. Now this guy is becoming one of their most exciting forwards. Just a pinch behind Cordy.

[Dogs 24/7]

Talk that their Head of Performance Nick Walsh has also resigned.

He resigned on Sunday and Id like to know why.

[Dogs 24/7]

Not getting along with Ross the boss? Wouldn't be the first time.

Has that been confirmed?

[NoseBleed]

Has that been confirmed?

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/teams/st-kilda-saints/afl-2023-nick-walsh-walsh-departs-st-kilda-saints-fitness-boss-announcement-latest-news/news-story/3cfd6b0b60ffcada50bc47b9e5f5b938

[Dogs 24/7]

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/teams/st-kilda-saints/afl-2023-nick-walsh-walsh-departs-st-kilda-saints-fitness-boss-announcement-latest-news/news-story/3cfd6b0b60ffcada50bc47b9e5f5b938

It was more about Ross being the reason why he left.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Has that been confirmed?

No just me speculating. It's a "sudden" departure and Lyon is known to be hard to work with if you don't fall in line.

[macca]

It's pretty crazy how many of the saints' current best players have come from nowhere. Steele, Sinclair, Wilkie, Marshall, Wood all either rookies or delistings. Now this guy is becoming one of their most exciting forwards. Just a pinch behind Cordy.

I like what I saw of Mitch Owen. He knows how to use his body to take a mark. Has a quiet confidence about himself.
Great pick up at pick 31 in 2021 draft , his played 7 games last year, and 7 this year.

His a real talent.


the ones you mentioned BT have been fantastic pickups. I can't believe how good Wood is playing now. I really do wonder what has changed it around ? He looked like he had all the physical attributes and talent to make it at North, but never seemed to make it consistent.

I am almost tempted to say Cody has been a good pickup. Hangon.. stats show, he has he kicked 2 goals against us, the only team which his kicked multiple goals. :( and 7 hitouts in that game

[GVGjr]

I like what I saw of Mitch Owen. He knows how to use his body to take a mark. Has a quiet confidence about himself.
Great pick up at pick 31 in 2021 draft , his played 7 games last year, and 7 this year.

His a real talent.


the ones you mentioned BT have been fantastic pickups. I can't believe how good Wood is playing now. I really do wonder what has changed it around ? He looked like he had all the physical attributes and talent to make it at North, but never seemed to make it consistent.

I am almost tempted to say Cody has been a good pickup. Hangon.. stats show, he has he kicked 2 goals against us, the only team which his kicked multiple goals. :( and 7 hitouts in that game

Hasn't he stood out this year? Really impressive.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I like what I saw of Mitch Owen. He knows how to use his body to take a mark. Has a quiet confidence about himself.
Great pick up at pick 31 in 2021 draft , his played 7 games last year, and 7 this year.

His a real talent.


the ones you mentioned BT have been fantastic pickups. I can't believe how good Wood is playing now. I really do wonder what has changed it around ? He looked like he had all the physical attributes and talent to make it at North, but never seemed to make it consistent.

I am almost tempted to say Cody has been a good pickup. Hangon.. stats show, he has he kicked 2 goals against us, the only team which his kicked multiple goals. :( and 7 hitouts in that game

The switch to defence has worked wonders for Wood. Another in the Liam Jones mould who had all the hype as a forward but has made their craft in defence.

I was keen on Mason after his delisting.

[azabob]

The switch to defence has worked wonders for Wood. Another in the Liam Jones mould who had all the hype as a forward but has made their craft in defence.

I was keen on Mason after his delisting.

Mason Wood is playing more a wing role but absolutely killing it.

[macca]

MASON Looked pretty good for 3 quarters , took some good marks and kicked a goal
He is a good mark has the height and strength to hold a contest, looks like has ability to run.

Even Liam stokker is starting to perform at afl level

The saints should have won that game except for the 2 errors:
- kicking into dixon
- 2 mins to go constantly bombing into the fwd line. Membrey was very frustrarted when he had 2-1 contest
Ports kicking to keep posession was on my wish list for us.

[Stevo]

Mason Wood is playing more a wing role but absolutely killing it.

Hasnt he come good? Impressive performances.

[Axe Man]

It's pretty crazy how many of the saints' current best players have come from nowhere. Steele, Sinclair, Wilkie, Marshall, Wood all either rookies or delistings. Now this guy is becoming one of their most exciting forwards. Just a pinch behind Cordy.

Just as well since many of their early picks have been disappointing.

However Jack Steele doesn't belong on that list. Pick 24 (academy pick) for GWS and traded to St Kilda for a second round pick because the giants had crazy midfield depth back then.

[Mofra]

Just as well since many of their early picks have been disappointing.

However Jack Steele doesn't belong on that list. Pick 24 (academy pick) for GWS and traded to St Kilda for a second round pick because the giants had crazy midfield depth back then.
Weirdly, Jack Steele really really wanted to stay at GWS. They pushed out the wrong mid considering who they lost after him

[macca]

Just as well since many of their early picks have been disappointing.

However Jack Steele doesn't belong on that list. Pick 24 (academy pick) for GWS and traded to St Kilda for a second round pick because the giants had crazy midfield depth back then.

His been a fantastic recruit for them , given his awards . PLAYED 127 games for saints

Highlights:

2x all aus
X2 revor barker award
Co-captain

Not bad for pick 24 !

[azabob]

This is pretty funny. Phillipou does look like a lazy bust at the moment.

After a six-point loss to Hawthorn on Saturday that left the Saints only percentage above the bottom four, Ned Costello ? a director at Sports Minded, which looks after Phillipou ? took to X the following day.
?@davidking34 tell me who in the forward line has improved under Lyon? (Mitch) Owens, (Max) King, phillipou have gotten considerably worse under Lyon. When they came in young and just played they looked exciting. He is destroying them,? Costello posted on early Sunday afternoon.

The post was deleted shortly after and Costello?s X account no longer exists.

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2024/05/12/member-of-young-saints-management-caught-out-criticising-lyon-on-social/

[Grantysghost]

This is pretty funny. Phillipou does look like a lazy bust at the moment.

After a six-point loss to Hawthorn on Saturday that left the Saints only percentage above the bottom four, Ned Costello ? a director at Sports Minded, which looks after Phillipou ? took to X the following day.
?@davidking34 tell me who in the forward line has improved under Lyon? (Mitch) Owens, (Max) King, phillipou have gotten considerably worse under Lyon. When they came in young and just played they looked exciting. He is destroying them,? Costello posted on early Sunday afternoon.

The post was deleted shortly after and Costello?s X account no longer exists.

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2024/05/12/member-of-young-saints-management-caught-out-criticising-lyon-on-social/

Lyon get's a lot of credit - not sure he's the amazing coach everyone thinks he is. He is good at setting up a structure to defend no doubt. That's not the only thing you need though. They just don't score enough his sides, never have.

I did wonder if he would be out of touch with the young guys on return too. Neutered dogs?

[GVGjr]

This is pretty funny. Phillipou does look like a lazy bust at the moment.

After a six-point loss to Hawthorn on Saturday that left the Saints only percentage above the bottom four, Ned Costello ? a director at Sports Minded, which looks after Phillipou ? took to X the following day.
?@davidking34 tell me who in the forward line has improved under Lyon? (Mitch) Owens, (Max) King, phillipou have gotten considerably worse under Lyon. When they came in young and just played they looked exciting. He is destroying them,? Costello posted on early Sunday afternoon.

The post was deleted shortly after and Costello?s X account no longer exists.

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2024/05/12/member-of-young-saints-management-caught-out-criticising-lyon-on-social/

Phillipou is still very young, he was going to need some time no matter what.

[hujsh]

Lyon get's a lot of credit - not sure he's the amazing coach everyone thinks he is. He is good at setting up a structure to defend no doubt. That's not the only thing you need though. They just don't score enough his sides, never have.

I did wonder if he would be out of touch with the young guys on return too. Neutered dogs?

I personally think the bigger question mark is whether he can guide a developing side up the ladder rather than have a list handed to him and get them playing good football.

[Sedat]

This is pretty funny. Phillipou does look like a lazy bust at the moment.
He's not the first and won't be the last young player to suffer the 2nd year blues. He's a bottom ager as well - he just need to find some form back in the 2nds and will be fine.

[bornadog]

He's not the first and won't be the last young player to suffer the 2nd year blues. He's a bottom ager as well - he just need to find some form back in the 2nds and will be fine.

But he told everyone he is better than Bont

[Mofra]

But he told everyone he is better than Bont
As a draftee he said his playing style is a mixture of Bont & Fyfe, which to be fair is how most draft watchers describe every mid above 190cm these days anyway.
I can't find source where he says he's better.

[bornadog]

As a draftee he said his playing style is a mixture of Bont & Fyfe, which to be fair is how most draft watchers describe every mid above 190cm these days anyway.
I can't find source where he says he's better.

Who puts out a video like this: https://www.tiktok.com/@newssportau/video/7170129767612583169

[SquirrelGrip]

Ross the Boss also isn't happy about how often the runners can go out these days, as it's more restrictive since he last coached.

Ironically, the runner can go out after each goal, but because his game style is not about scoring, then it's really his fault that the St Kilda runner can't get on the field!

[Mofra]

Who puts out a video like this: https://www.tiktok.com/@newssportau/video/7170129767612583169
That's (amatuer) media NewsSportAu. Not him.

[GVGjr]

Last night Saints President Andrew Bassett fired a shot on the AFL about the draft and focused on father son selections and academies.
While I question why the President would raise this directly in front of supporters and the players at their biggest club function by indicating their list is mediocre at best the whole compensation for players leaving, father son bias and some clubs having access to players under the academy set-up probably needs to be reviewed.

[Grantysghost]

Last night Saints President Andrew Bassett fired a shot on the AFL about the draft and focused on father son selections and academies.
While I question why the President would raise this directly in front of supporters and the players at their biggest club function by indicating their list is mediocre at best the whole compensation for players leaving, father son bias and some clubs having access to players under the academy set-up probably needs to be reviewed.
He has had a fair crack!

The academy reversal is nuts.

I think the AFL would prefer I only one of the Saints, North or Dogs existed.

Did they mention the stadium at all? Docklands is the elephant in the room.

[jazzadogs]

Didn't the saints get Owens and Windhager cheaply through their academy?
They missed out on Cam Mackenzie because the AFL flip-flopped on that rule, but I don't think they've been disadvantaged that much. Father son comes down to luck, but I think the changes to points/matching will help even it out.

[ledge]

Seriously this bloke has issues but he needs to look deeper than father/sons or academy players.
The clubs recruiting, development and culture over the years would be a start.
Not going forward playing the poor us card.
How about a review and look at how the successful teams do it.
Tigers won 3 flags and none of the stars were father /son if they had one.
I think the president is the main problem with speeches like that.

[angelopetraglia]

I give you the Saints 2009 Grand Final team.

Nick Riewoldt. Pick #1
Brendon Goddard. Pick #1
Michael Gardiner. Pick #1
Luke Ball. Pick #2
Justin Koschitzke. Pick #2
Farren Ray. Pick #4
Raphael Clark. Pick #8
Lenny Hayes. Pick #11
Nick Dal Santo. Pick #13

Almost a quarter of their team was taken at either Pick #1 or Pick #2. An embarrassment of riches and they still could not get the job done.

[bornadog]

I give you the Saints 2009 Grand Final team.

Nick Riewoldt. Pick #1
Brendon Goddard. Pick #1
Michael Gardiner. Pick #1
Luke Ball. Pick #2
Justin Koschitzke. Pick #2
Farren Ray. Pick #4
Raphael Clark. Pick #8
Lenny Hayes. Pick #11
Nick Dal Santo. Pick #13

Almost a quarter of their team was taken at either Pick #1 or Pick #2. An embrassment of riches and they still could not get the job done.

and have the same coach again

[ledge]

I give you the Saints 2009 Grand Final team.

Nick Riewoldt. Pick #1
Brendon Goddard. Pick #1
Michael Gardiner. Pick #1
Luke Ball. Pick #2
Justin Koschitzke. Pick #2
Farren Ray. Pick #4
Raphael Clark. Pick #8
Lenny Hayes. Pick #11
Nick Dal Santo. Pick #13

Almost a quarter of their team was taken at either Pick #1 or Pick #2. An embrassment of riches and they still could not get the job done.

They were all good players too, let’s face it, it was one bad bounce that lost it.
They should have been in more grand finals with that lot though.
I would put it down to a too defensive game plan. Nothing to do with father/ son or academy picks.

[Sedat]

I give you the Saints 2009 Grand Final team.

Nick Riewoldt. Pick #1
Brendon Goddard. Pick #1
Michael Gardiner. Pick #1
Luke Ball. Pick #2
Justin Koschitzke. Pick #2
Farren Ray. Pick #4
Raphael Clark. Pick #8
Lenny Hayes. Pick #11
Nick Dal Santo. Pick #13

Almost a quarter of their team was taken at either Pick #1 or Pick #2. An embrassment of riches and they still could not get the job done.
In addition to St Kilda, from 2008-2010 all of Hawthorn, Geelong and Collingwood had generational teams - what Rocket and our players did to get so close to these teams in that 3-year stretch was nothing short of amazing IMO. I'd like to see how St Kilda would have fared with Will Minson (2008) and Scott Welsh (2009) as their key forward instead of Floppy Roo.

[Rocco Jones]

I think the AFL would prefer I only one of the Saints, North or Dogs existed.


I don't think they care too much about the Dees too.

I think they want the four to exist as add TV revenue, filling Marvel games up and taking crappy time slots. Also would be bad PR to kill them off. I think they want them to exist but accept that they won't be as equal as others in their equal comp.

[ledge]

How is F/son in anyway different to you if your a big or small club?

[Sedat]

I don't think they care too much about the Dees too.

I think they want the four to exist as add TV revenue, filling Marvel games up and taking crappy time slots. Also would be bad PR to kill them off. I think they want them to exist but accept that they won't be as equal as others in their equal comp.
100% this. Dogs, Demons, Kangas and Saints are seat-fillers for the AFEL and allow them to secure fat TV rights contracts for the additional content, as well as help fulfil stadium contractual obligations. That is why the media go harder on these clubs than the "big" Vic clubs because they can afford to without any major blowback.

[angelopetraglia]

How is F/son in anyway different to you if your a big or small club?

Zero difference as the Bulldogs have shown.

The bigger issue for me is the inequality created with free agency and players having more power to move clubs and this narrative that you are better off playing at a bigger club on a bigger stage. That is hurting the Saints, North and Dogs of the AFL more than the draft concessions. By a long way too.

[Bullies]

Zero difference as the Bulldogs have shown.

The bigger issue for me is the inequality created with free agency and players having more power to move clubs and this narrative that you are better off playing at a bigger club on a bigger stage. That is hurting the Saints, North and Dogs of the AFL more than the draft concessions. By a long way too. Agree, a mate helps with recruiting for one of the "big" clubs. He said very rarely would they target a tall who needs work put into them as they know they will be able to entice them after all the ground work is done at one of the "feeder" clubs.

[bornadog]

We should do same for Smith


St Kilda told Josh Battle NOT to come to the Trevor Barker Award last night. Battle went on to finish third in the count, but wasn't mentioned by the president, captain or coach. Interesting approach from the club.

[Axe Man]

We should do same for Smith

That's a strange approach by St Kilda. It's not like he's demanded a trade whilst contracted - he's a free agent. I think they need to grow up.

We treated Dunkley with respect when he left as of course he won the best and fairest. I doubt Smith would attend anyway but even if he does there will be no need to mention or acknowledge him having not played this season.

[mighty_west]

We should do same for Smith

Why though? All clubs have players leave to other clubs and all clubs bring in players from other clubs (free agents, uncontracted, contracted), it's the nature of the beast.

[jeemak]

I wouldn't be emulating the directionless Saints.

[bornadog]

Why though? All clubs have players leave to other clubs and all clubs bring in players from other clubs (free agents, uncontracted, contracted), it's the nature of the beast.

I am used to the corporate world where, you resign and go to a competitor, you leave immediately and that is it.

[angelopetraglia]

I am used to the corporate world where, you resign and go to a competitor, you leave immediately and that is it.

Normally excutives have notice period from anywhere from 3 months to one year. In most cases if you are going to a direct competitor, you would be stood down immediately, marched out the door and put on "garden leave" for the whatever your notice period is. Self interest would rule regardless of tenure or contribution. "Garden leave" basically meaning that you would be controlled by your current empoloyer until you notice period is up and basically put in handcuffs.

If you were leaving to someone who was not a direct competitor, it would be different depending on the situation.

[jeemak]

I am used to the corporate world where, you resign and go to a competitor, you leave immediately and that is it.

You take showers with your colleagues?

Footy's a bit different, I guess.

[Go_Dogs]

We should do same for Smith

I don’t mind it.

If you’re out, you’re out. You can still be mates with players at the club and all of that stuff, but if you’ve told your employer to get stuffed, then it’s probably fair enough that you don’t attend an awards night afterward. In some ways, it will be interesting to see if it impacts the playing group positively negatively or not at all.

[GVGjr]

I don’t mind it.

If you’re out, you’re out. You can still be mates with players at the club and all of that stuff, but if you’ve told your employer to get stuffed, then it’s probably fair enough that you don’t attend an awards night afterward. In some ways, it will be interesting to see if it impacts the playing group positively negatively or not at all.

It's effectively putting a departing player on gardening leave.

[bornadog]

It's effectively putting a departing player on gardening leave.

True. Contracts go to end of October?

[azabob]

So wait... we are arguing whether Smith should be on gardening leave or not.

It is fairly clear Smith has been on gardening leave for all of 2024!

[bornadog]

So wait... we are arguing whether Smith should be on gardening leave or not.

It is fairly clear Smith has been on gardening leave for all of 2024!

Spot on Aza

[comrade]

If Baz had a shred of dignity and self awareness, he?d give the B&F a very wide berth and wouldn?t need the club to tell him otherwise.

[GVGjr]

True. Contracts go to end of October?

Yep.

[bornadog]

Yep.

I wasn't 100% sure. Thanks

[jeemak]

I don't know whether the Saints have leverage in the credibility stakes to be muscling an eight year 123 game players around, even if he is departing. Unless I'm missing something he's caused them no problems and has given them good service over that time, and his contracted period has come to a close?

The people making the decision to force him out, denying him an opportunity to speak and say thank you and wish people well probably haven't put in the same time as he has anyway.

Couple this with the overt sooking about the draft, concessions, equalisation, academies etc. etc. just makes me view them as not looking internally to understand their ordinariness, and projecting outwards as a distraction to their members.

[The Adelaide Connection]

If Baz had a shred of dignity and self awareness, he?d give the B&F a very wide berth and wouldn?t need the club to tell him otherwise.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't I think.

Personally I think we try to keep it on good terms with him- the polar opposite to what we had with Stringer- and (as MJP suggested) take every opportunity to talk about his contributions and importance to the team. Not that I think the latter should be done at the B&F mind you, but no doubt there will be some follow up question about him attending by someone in the media the first opportunity they get.

[Go_Dogs]

He’s outgrown the B&F pretty sure.

[GVGjr]

As Jee pointed out the Saints told Josh Battle not to come to their B&F night then never even acknowledged his departure or service on the night.
You would have to think there is something more to it from St Kilda's perspective than him just leaving after serving out his contract.
I think he even finished 3rd in their count.

[Bullies]

So wait... we are arguing whether Smith should be on gardening leave or not.

It is fairly clear Smith has been on gardening leave for all of 2024! The club knew well in advance that a deal had been done which is why the "gardening leave" throughout the year. The club have done well to keep their angst in house and not make a deal of it. Very professionally done.

[Grantysghost]

Have to say it's pretty poor form by the Saints.
Guess they have not reached a maturity level yet where they can accept the game of player movement.

Have a crack at the system yes, but not the player looking for a better future.

[Grantysghost]

Btw I thought we handled the Dunkley stuff perfectly. He was welcomed at the B and F even though he was leaving and left a sour taste.

[GVGjr]

Have to say it's pretty poor form by the Saints.
Guess they have not reached a maturity level yet where they can accept the game of player movement.

Have a crack at the system yes, but not the player looking for a better future.

The 'you are either with us or against us' stance the Saints have taken is the populist position and will greatly appeal to the majority of supporters who are frustrated with their performances this year. Playing the victim card on father son and academy picks will also resonate with many of their supporters. Battle played for them all season and didn't deserve to be isolated away from the night.
It's not like he bagged the club in the media and didn't meet their standards through the season.

[Happy Days]

Very Port Adelaide thing to do

[Grantysghost]

The 'you are either with us or against us' stance the Saints have taken is the populist position and will greatly appeal to the majority of supporters who are frustrated with their performances this year. Playing the victim card on father son and academy picks will also resonate with many of their supporters. Battle played for them all season and didn't deserve to be isolated away from the night.
It's not like he bagged the club in the media and didn't meet their standards through the season.
Yes I get using that lever against city hall.
Using it against one of your players who bled for the club and finished third best is poor form I think.

[GVGjr]

Yes I get using that lever against city hall.
Using it against one of your players who bled for the club and finished third best is poor form I think.

I know Dunkley isn't a popular player for our supporters now but I thought the club, Bevo and Dunks handled it well last year. I'm not sure that the Saints have done themselves any favors for the way they've handled Battles departure. It will however give them a short term spike with the supporters.

[Grantysghost]

I know Dunkley isn't a popular player for our supporters now but I thought the club, Bevo and Dunks handled it well last year. I'm not sure that the Saints have done themselves any favors for the way they've handled Battles departure. It will however give them a short term spike with the supporters.
And probably a negative through the afl players group which is pretty dumb. They already struggle to attract players.

You got to play it like Barksdale and Stringer did to Omar on the wire.

Play it cool, parley, ask for a truce. Then we he sticks his head up you whack it!

[Topdog]

Apparently Battle told the players he was staying after they won in the last round so players were actually upset with him as well.

[Mofra]

A President pushing his case in the interests of his club. I really don't see an issue with it. I'd take that over the silent meek approach to dealing with AFL house

[jazzadogs]

Apparently Battle told the players he was staying after they won in the last round so players were actually upset with him as well.

And then sent out a group text to tell them all he wasn't.

[bornadog]

A President pushing his case in the interests of his club. I really don't see an issue with it. I'd take that over the silent meek approach to dealing with AFL house

Did well and got pick 8 for battle

[Bulldog Revolution]

I know Dunkley isn't a popular player for our supporters now but I thought the club, Bevo and Dunks handled it well last year. I'm not sure that the Saints have done themselves any favors for the way they've handled Battles departure. It will however give them a short term spike with the supporters.

Because we are bulldogs we over analyse players who leave

Dunkley left for $$$

All the other stuff is a smokescreen to cover that Brisbane offered him the longest contract and the most dollars

He'd already had what 2 shoulder reconstructions? What was he with us - our 4th/5th best midfielder

We definitely wanted him to stay - hes a valuable player and was for us.

Our club might have wanted him to stay but if the offer to go was so substantially larger then we cant really begrudge the player too much. We dont have to love him, but as others have commented he gave it everything he had whilst he was with us - he is a Bulldog premiership player - I personally appreciated all his efforts in the tricolours and now he is effectively dead to me until a premiership re-uniuon

[bornadog]

Because we are bulldogs we over analyse players who leave

Dunkley left for $$$

All the other stuff is a smokescreen to cover that Brisbane offered him the longest contract and the most dollars

He'd already had what 2 shoulder reconstructions? What was he with us - our 4th/5th best midfielder

We definitely wanted him to stay - hes a valuable player and was for us.

Our club might have wanted him to stay but if the offer to go was so substantially larger then we cant really begrudge the player too much. We dont have to love him, but as others have commented he gave it everything he had whilst he was with us - he is a Bulldog premiership player - I personally appreciated all his efforts in the tricolours and now he is effectively dead to me until a premiership re-uniuon

BINGO - my thoughts exactly. It was always for money. Said that from the start.

[Happy Days]

Did well and got pick 8 for battle

Can’t wait to trade a future 4th for whoever they pick in 2029.