Western Bulldogs are genuine premiership contenders in 2020

[GVGjr]

Champion Data (https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/western-bulldogs/why-the-western-bulldogs-are-genuine-premiership-contenders-in-2020/news-story/5694e1df91720727f5dda1d38164c6d2)

It appears Daniel Hoyne has been reading our Cordy vs Trengove thread as well :)

The Western Bulldogs have the second-best list in the AFL and a young ruck prodigy who will eventually develop into the next Brodie Grundy.

That is the heady prediction from Champion Data’s 18-team list analysis as part of its 2020 AFL Prospectus.

Richmond remains the most dominant force in football according to Champion Data — the best overall list with the game’s leading defence, second-best group of forwards and seventh-best midfield.

But the much-hyped Western Bulldogs not only have a list assessed as the second-best, they have significant scope for improvement.

Champion Data rates young ruckman Tim English on track to become a ruckman of the calibre of dual All-Australian Grundy.

His ball-winning ability and around-the-ground coverage shone in 20 games last year but he still officially ranks below average as a player after only 382 hit-outs for the Dogs in 2020.

Champion Data ranks Jack Macrae, Marcus Bontempelli, Caleb Daniel and Matthew Suckling as elite, with another nine above-average players — Josh Dunkley, Bailey Smith, Jason Johannisen, Patrick Lipinski, Sam Lloyd, Toby McLean, Hayden Crozier, Tom Liberatore and Alex Keath.

Champion Data analyst Daniel Hoyne said even the Dogs’ weaknesses could be quickly addressed this season.

“I still think their weakness is the key defender post,” Hoyne said.

“They conceded the third-most goals to key forwards last year and everyone will say (ex-Adelaide defender) Alex Keath is that man but he’s more of an interceptor than a lockdown defender. If Jackson Trengove or Zaine Cordy can perform that role week-in and week-out they have pretty much got everything else covered.

“English is the spitting image of Grundy from a numbers point of view at the same stage of their careers. If you are a Bulldogs supporter you are pretty excited.”

Collingwood is rated the league’s third-best list, with Greater Western Sydney and West Coast rounding out the top five.

Gold Coast is rated the weakest list — with the worst defence and worst forward group. Carlton was rated the 17th-best given a second-worst defence and worst midfield group.

In a controversial move Geelong’s defence is statistically ranked the third-worst given an even crop that does not rack up huge ranking points.

In the AFL Prospectus, Champion Data acknowledged Geelong’s defence has been the stingiest since 2009.

“Harry Taylor rates above average on our list, but the rest rate average or below average,” the book stated.

“They are not great attacking or intercepting defenders so the individual players find it difficult to generate rating points. These rating points land with Geelong’s midfield and wingers pushing back to help generate the ball movement out of defence.”

Why Doggies fans should be excited in 2020

* The Bulldogs start 2020 with 13 players classified by Champion Data either elite or above-average based on their position – the equal-most of any side.

* The Dogs have 21 players aged 21-25 – the most of any club. They also enter the season with the sixth-least experienced group and the only outfit without a 200-game player. They have plenty of room for growth.

Source: AFL PROSPECTUS

[comrade]

* The Dogs have 21 players aged 21-25 – the most of any club. They also enter the season with the sixth-least experienced group and the only outfit without a 200-game player. They have plenty of room for growth.

Source: AFL PROSPECTUS[/I]

The list build has set us up with a solid grouping at the right age to enable us to have a sustained 5 year tilt at the flag. Let's not blow our chance and win at least 1 before 2025.

[Bulldog Joe]

The list build has set us up with a solid grouping at the right age to enable us to have a sustained 5 year tilt at the flag. Let's not blow our chance and win at least 1 before 2025.

I don't see why we should wait.

There is no reason, with the list we have that we should not win multiple flags before your 2025 deadline.

We really have the best or close to best player from the following drafts

2012 - Macrae
2013 - Bont
2015 - Dunkley
2016 - English
2017 - Naughton
2018 - Bailey Smith

Our time is NOW

[comrade]

I don't see why we should wait.

There is no reason, with the list we have that we should not win multiple flags before your 2025 deadline.

We really have the best or close to best player from the following drafts

2012 - Macrae
2013 - Bont
2015 - Dunkley
2016 - English
2017 - Naughton
2018 - Bailey Smith

Our time is NOW

That's what I mean. We have a 5 year window to win flags from now until 2025, let's not blow it.

[GVGjr]

That's what I mean. We have a 5 year window to win flags from now until 2025, let's not blow it.

This was sentiment in 2017.

[comrade]

This was sentiment in 2017.

It shouldn't have been in hindsight.

Morris, Boyd and Murphy all at the tail end of their careers. Culture issues driven by at least 2 players no longer at the club. No genuine ruck option. List was heavily polarised between young and old players rather than a solid grouping in that 'prime' age range.

We're much better positioned in 2020 for a sustained tilt.

[Twodogs]

It shouldn't have been in hindsight.

Morris, Boyd and Murphy all at the tail end of their careers. Culture issues driven by at least 2 players no longer at the club. No genuine ruck option. List was heavily polarised between young and old players rather than a solid grouping in that 'prime' age range.

We're much better positioned in 2020 for a sustained tilt.

I agree. Having premiership players already will be a huge advantage to our next tilt.

Does anyone else think that GWS might have a climb too far after last years tilt? That would have taken a lot out of them coming from an Elimination Final only to get thumped in the Grand Final.

[bornadog]

Champion Data (https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/western-bulldogs/why-the-western-bulldogs-are-genuine-premiership-contenders-in-2020/news-story/5694e1df91720727f5dda1d38164c6d2)

Champion Data analyst Daniel Hoyne said even the Dogs’ weaknesses could be quickly addressed this season.

“I still think their weakness is the key defender post,” Hoyne said.

“They conceded the third-most goals to key forwards last year and everyone will say (ex-Adelaide defender) Alex Keath is that man but he’s more of an interceptor than a lockdown defender. If Jackson Trengove or Zaine Cordy can perform that role week-in and week-out they have pretty much got everything else covered.

Source: AFL PROSPECTUS

Perhaps instead of looking at the whole season, look at the defence in the second half when the players started to gel together as a defensive unit. The story is alot different.

[GVGjr]

Perhaps instead of looking at the whole season, look at the defence in the second half when the players started to gel together as a defensive unit. The story is alot different.

To me though this was more of a MC issue, once Dunkley was moved into the midfield more and Trengove into the back line from about round 5 or 6 we started to improve as a team.

[bornadog]

To me though this was more of a MC issue, once Dunkley was moved into the midfield more and Trengove into the back line from about round 5 or 6 we started to improve as a team.

Either way, we had a solid backline in the second half and didn't concede so many goals. But to blankly just say we had the third worse backline doesn't show the true picture.

[GVGjr]

It shouldn't have been in hindsight.

Morris, Boyd and Murphy all at the tail end of their careers. Culture issues driven by at least 2 players no longer at the club. No genuine ruck option. List was heavily polarised between young and old players rather than a solid grouping in that 'prime' age range.

We're much better positioned in 2020 for a sustained tilt.

I can't agree on this point. To say so indicates we fluked it in 2016. I think most Western Bulldogs supporters realise more than most how difficult it is to win a flag but we were super competitive in 2015 and played brilliantly well in 2016. I'm not necessarily saying we should have won another flag straight away but we should have been vastly more competitive in 2017 and 2018.

Being complacent with our list management was one of the reasons but the way we handled success was the real challenge

I look at Richmond and ask the question of where our membership numbers would be now if we had backed up 2016 with a top 5 finish in 2017 and we had the list to do it.

[ledge]

I can't agree on this point. To say so indicates we fluked it in 2016. I think most Western Bulldogs supporters realise more than most how difficult it is to win a flag but we were super competitive in 2015 and played brilliantly well in 2016. I'm not necessarily saying we should have won another flag straight away but we should have been vastly more competitive in 2017 and 2018.

Being complacent with our list management was one of the reasons but the way we handled success was the real challenge

I look at Richmond and ask the question of where our membership numbers would be now if we had backed up 2016 with a top 5 finish in 2017 and we had the list to do it.

From the outside looking in yeah we had the players but some didn’t have the drive or thought they were just going to carry on, let’s face it, a club win it’s second flag in 70odd years, some young players got caught up in the hype, we were a team and had to be all in to get it, we couldn’t afford for players to lose their way, sadly some did.
I believe although our list is younger but due to some experiencing 2016 and the aftermath we have a lot more maturity in the group than 2017.
We were compared to the hawks flag in 2008? I think its Pretty similar in that we won one early and now we are coming of age.

[Twodogs]

I dont understabd how a teammate could look at Bob Murphy (and others but Bob, just because he is Bob) knowing he missed out on playing in 2016 and not bother to back up in 2017. For mine that's what was really disappointing about 2017.


Bob won't be at the reunion with his own medal and that's a real shame.

[GVGjr]

I dont understabd how a teammate could look at Bob Murphy (and others but Bob, just because he is Bob) knowing he missed out on playing in 2016 and not bother to back up in 2017. For mine that's what was really disappointing about 2017.

Bob won't be at the reunion with his own medal and that's a real shame.

There are a few parts to this, one of them is giving the guys like Bob who missed out the best chance to remedy that, the second part is the self drive to say I want another crack at the ultimate prize from a footy perspective and the last one might be that I just want to be the best I can and enjoy this ride with my team mates as a long as I can

Sadly it appears a number of players seemed to have said to themselves I'll sit and hope others drag us into the finals and I'll get serious then.

[Twodogs]

There are a few parts to this, one of them is giving the guys like Bob who missed out the best chance to remedy that, the second part is the self drive to say I want another crack at the ultimate prize from a footy perspective and the last one might be that I just want to be the best I can and enjoy this ride with my team mates as a long as I can

Sadly it appears a number of players seemed to have said to themselves I'll sit and hope others drag us into the finals and I'll get serious then.

For me footy (and sport generally) is all about sharing things with your mates-there is no better time than those first few minutes in the rooms with your mates after a win-that's what it's all about. Otherwise you''d just play tennis or golf.

Bob didn't end up having a great season in 2017 but I like to think that if I was one of his teammates then I would be fanatical in my preparation for 2017 to give him a chance to play in a premiership after all he had done for the club. And because he is *!*!*!*!ing Bob Murphy man!

[mjp]

There are a few parts to this, one of them is giving the guys like Bob who missed out the best chance to remedy that, the second part is the self drive to say I want another crack at the ultimate prize from a footy perspective and the last one might be that I just want to be the best I can and enjoy this ride with my team mates as a long as I can

Sadly it appears a number of players seemed to have said to themselves I'll sit and hope others drag us into the finals and I'll get serious then.

I will always believe that the Matt Boyd concussion and protracted recovery was the single most important reason we fell away in 2017. Never gets mentioned and basically ended his career - by the time he had fully recovered and was playing good footy the season was shot and his retirement cards had been marked...should never have happened. Great leader.

[FrediKanoute]

I can't agree on this point. To say so indicates we fluked it in 2016. I think most Western Bulldogs supporters realise more than most how difficult it is to win a flag but we were super competitive in 2015 and played brilliantly well in 2016. I'm not necessarily saying we should have won another flag straight away but we should have been vastly more competitive in 2017 and 2018.

Being complacent with our list management was one of the reasons but the way we handled success was the real challenge

I look at Richmond and ask the question of where our membership numbers would be now if we had backed up 2016 with a top 5 finish in 2017 and we had the list to do it.

I agree. In defence though, I gave them a fee pass for 17 and 18 and really only became passionate and dirty on them in 2019. I can only imagine what the mood was around the club with the lifting of the curse and finally breaking through.

The other point I would make is that its easier to win a flag against the odds than to do so when expectations demand it and I think this played into our 2017/18/19 performances.

[GVGjr]

I agree. In defence though, I gave them a fee pass for 17 and 18 and really only became passionate and dirty on them in 2019. I can only imagine what the mood was around the club with the lifting of the curse and finally breaking through.

The other point I would make is that its easier to win a flag against the odds than to do so when expectations demand it and I think this played into our 2017/18/19 performances.

This is probably one of the reasons why we aren't a really strong club, as supporters and as a club we just don't have the hunger for sustained success. Twodogs is correct when he said the other day he doesn't understand how easy it was for team mates to let Murphy and a few others down the following season. To me it's an indication of some players being selfish and not worrying about their team mates and that that we enjoyed the trappings of success for too long.
Richmond had a long drought and have been competitive for 3 straight years and we dropped off almost straight away.

There is a lesson to learn there.
I like the fact that we are regarded as a genuine contender this year as it removes some of the excuses we can offer up.

[Mofra]

This is probably one of the reasons why we aren't a really strong club, as supporters and as a club we just don't have the hunger for sustained success. Twodogs is correct when he said the other day he doesn't understand how easy it was for team mates to let Murphy and a few others down the following season. To me it's an indication of some players being selfish and not worrying about their team mates and that that we enjoyed the trappings of success for too long.
Richmond had a long drought and have been competitive for 3 straight years and we dropped off almost straight away.

There is a lesson to learn there.
I like the fact that we are regarded as a genuine contender this year as it removes some of the excuses we can offer up.
We weren't the dominant team up to August in 2016. We simply peaked at the right time - 5 best 22 players coming back for the elimination final is easily overlooked.

Richmond had a sustained finals run for years and only missed out once leading up to their 2017 season. Different stages of development. We're structured much better now for a sustained run than we were in 2016, and the fact we went out and got mature bookends last trade period indicates the club thinks the window is now wide open.

[Bulldog4life]

This is probably one of the reasons why we aren't a really strong club, as supporters and as a club we just don't have the hunger for sustained success. Twodogs is correct when he said the other day he doesn't understand how easy it was for team mates to let Murphy and a few others down the following season. To me it's an indication of some players being selfish and not worrying about their team mates and that that we enjoyed the trappings of success for too long.
Richmond had a long drought and have been competitive for 3 straight years and we dropped off almost straight away.

There is a lesson to learn there.
I like the fact that we are regarded as a genuine contender this year as it removes some of the excuses we can offer up.


Here are the latest odds

2020 AFL Premiership

Richmond $5.00
West Coast $6.00
Collingwood $8.00
GWS $9.00
Brisbane $10
Western Bulldogs $11
Geelong $12
Hawthorn $15
Melbourne $26
Essendon $29
St Kilda $29
North Melbourne $34
Port Adelaide $34
Adelaide $41
Sydney $41
Carlton $51
Fremantle $51
Gold Coast $251

https://www.bettingpro.com.au/afl-premiership-betting-odds

[Danjul]

Dogs defeated Richmond, GWS and Brisbane in 2019. Should have done the same with Collingwood. It is not talent that is the lacking.

[MrMahatma]

Here are the latest odds

2020 AFL Premiership

Richmond $5.00
West Coast $6.00
Collingwood $8.00
GWS $9.00
Brisbane $10
Western Bulldogs $11
Geelong $12
Hawthorn $15
Melbourne $26
Essendon $29
St Kilda $29
North Melbourne $34
Port Adelaide $34
Adelaide $41
Sydney $41
Carlton $51
Fremantle $51
Gold Coast $251

https://www.bettingpro.com.au/afl-premiership-betting-odds

Worth an Ayrton Senna I would think!

[AshMac]

Here are the latest odds

2020 AFL Premiership

Richmond $5.00
West Coast $6.00
Collingwood $8.00
GWS $9.00
Brisbane $10
Western Bulldogs $11
Geelong $12
Hawthorn $15
Melbourne $26
Essendon $29
St Kilda $29
North Melbourne $34
Port Adelaide $34
Adelaide $41
Sydney $41
Carlton $51
Fremantle $51
Gold Coast $251

https://www.bettingpro.com.au/afl-premiership-betting-odds

$11 is super short IMO for our odds. Surprised to see we’re above Geelong

[Twodogs]

Worth an Ayrton Senna I would think!

Put enough on us making the grand final to win enough to buy a grand final ticket with the winnings is the go I reckon.

[Sedat]

Plenty of Media Street going on about us this pre-season. I hope we are better prepared for the Pies in R1 than we were for the Giants in the EF last year.

The free PR is nice but talk is cheap.

[Mofra]

$11 is super short IMO for our odds. Surprised to see we’re above Geelong
That puts us 6th favourites, which is where a lot of people see us finishing (many have us in the top 4).

[Bulldog4life]

Richmond $5.00
West Coast $6.00
Collingwood $8.00
GWS $9.00
Brisbane $10
Western Bulldogs $11
Geelong $12
Hawthorn $15


That 8 looks about right to me but there usually is a bolter.

[bornadog]

Dogs defeated Richmond, GWS and Brisbane in 2019. Should have done the same with Collingwood. It is not talent that is the lacking.

Well lets hope with another year of experience we can take the next step.

[mjp]

To me it's an indication of some players being selfish and not worrying about their team mates and that that we enjoyed the trappings of success for too long.

Richmond had a long drought and have been competitive for 3 straight years and we dropped off almost straight away.



So.

Richmond have built this 'thing' where it is all about creating stories together and drawing on things from outside of footy and it seems the players have all bought in. They also have a facility where they have 'everything' yet somehow the players are still involved in creating the place/space - the new little mindfulness/yoga place they have built (well, I think Kamdyn McIntosh has primarily built) in some corner of Punt Rd is an example).

Now, I'm not saying we don't have this...but it just seems STRONG at the Tiges. Even the Rance stuff has been barely a blip amongst the players...certainly in 2016 there was the narrative around the kids book that Bevo was aligning to the journey of the season (I forget which one it was but it is all through the Flanagan book)...I wonder what story our players believe in now??? With the creating the environment/space, well...we all love the tree stump that is used to break the ice story...what else is there? How involved are they all? Does any of this stuff even matter?

I guess to go all Collingwood when you watch that docco they did last year and Grundy says he couldn't disagree any more with the idea that if hard work hasn't got you the result then you have to work harder...and the AFL PA stats show that the teams with the lowest recorded player/club contact hours have won the past two premierships, well...

This stuff is hard.

You can't coach effort - the players need to bring that. But you can encourage an environment where the players are 'happy' and 'relaxed' and determined to be seen by the collective as valuable (which leads to on-field effort and off-field 'consistency'). I think.

[GVGjr]

So.

Richmond have built this 'thing' where it is all about creating stories together and drawing on things from outside of footy and it seems the players have all bought in. They also have a facility where they have 'everything' yet somehow the players are still involved in creating the place/space - the new little mindfulness/yoga place they have built (well, I think Kamdyn McIntosh has primarily built) in some corner of Punt Rd is an example).

Now, I'm not saying we don't have this...but it just seems STRONG at the Tiges. Even the Rance stuff has been barely a blip amongst the players...certainly in 2016 there was the narrative around the kids book that Bevo was aligning to the journey of the season (I forget which one it was but it is all through the Flanagan book)...I wonder what story our players believe in now??? With the creating the environment/space, well...we all love the tree stump that is used to break the ice story...what else is there? How involved are they all? Does any of this stuff even matter?

I guess to go all Collingwood when you watch that docco they did last year and Grundy says he couldn't disagree any more with the idea that if hard work hasn't got you the result then you have to work harder...and the AFL PA stats show that the teams with the lowest recorded player/club contact hours have won the past two premierships, well...

This stuff is hard.

You can't coach effort - the players need to bring that. But you can encourage an environment where the players are 'happy' and 'relaxed' and determined to be seen by the collective as valuable (which leads to on-field effort and off-field 'consistency'). I think.

While I agree that you essentially can't coach effort what I think we did particularly poorly in 2017 and 18 was manage the consequences of some players not bringing an A grade effort to the game. I'm not sure if it was because we didn't want to confirm what many in the media were speculating on at the time or if we just thought a few of the players would just snap out of it but whatever way I look at it we missed an opportunity to address it during the season.
At the end of 2017, we made an example of Stringer and we then had a couple of players leave at the end of 2018 and after doing all that we made the finals in 2019.
Dropping players for bad form or effort is easy and I'm not sure we were prepared to make the hard decisions for a couple of seasons

You've made an excellent point and the challenge for us is to work out what we can do to close the gap the Tigers appear to have over a few clubs

[Go_Dogs]

Do professional sporting clubs run engagement surveys like large organisations?

[mjp]

At the end of 2017, we made an example of Stringer and we then had a couple of players leave at the end of 2018 and after doing all that we made the finals in 2019.

Dropping players for bad form or effort is easy and I'm not sure we were prepared to make the hard decisions for a couple of seasons


Well, to quote someone famous who famously said something along the lines of "You have to lose a few soldiers".

The challenge with making an example of someone like Jake is that you don't know whether the message sent by the club is the message received by the players/playing group. I mean, the club is sending a "We will support you, but there is a line that must not be crossed" type message (it hopes). But is that what the players "hear". Or do they hear "Yeah, do they might move you on but there are 17 other clubs and, well, I got a B-I-G pay rise".

Player discipline is a tricky thing. The things that they care about the most - time off (aka less meetings) and cash - are pretty easily manipulated. But doing things like 5am beach sessions etc can cause the group to rupture if the same protagonists are causing the group to be penalised...and if players aren't all in, well...

Then there is the CBA which limits a lot of player discipline to the whole match day selection thing you were referring too...

I've been critical of the way things were managed in 2017, 2018 and 2019 - in 2019 the on field sulking of players who believed that they were being played out of position was galling to watch, not to mention the repeated failures of effort in games vs Carlton, North and GWS in particular - but it would have been bloody hard especially given the trust gained by many of those players during 2016 AND the 'loose' controls around them/trust afforded them throughout that successful season.

[Twodogs]

Well, to quote someone famous who famously said something along the lines of "You have to lose a few soldiers".


OK you've got me. Was it Sun Tzu?

[mjp]

OK you've got me. Was it Sun Tzu?

I have no idea but a talent manager I know says it to me early every pre-season when talking about training standards and the fact that ultimately we are going to cut the squad anyway AND even more ultimately only 23 can play on a given day.

[Twodogs]

I have no idea but a talent manager I know says it to me early every pre-season when talking about training standards and the fact that ultimately we are going to cut the squad anyway AND even more ultimately only 23 can play on a given day.

It sounds like something from Art of War.

I wonder who he would have barracked for?

[AshMac]

Well, to quote someone famous who famously said something along the lines of "You have to lose a few soldiers".

The challenge with making an example of someone like Jake is that you don't know whether the message sent by the club is the message received by the players/playing group. I mean, the club is sending a "We will support you, but there is a line that must not be crossed" type message (it hopes). But is that what the players "hear". Or do they hear "Yeah, do they might move you on but there are 17 other clubs and, well, I got a B-I-G pay rise".

Player discipline is a tricky thing. The things that they care about the most - time off (aka less meetings) and cash - are pretty easily manipulated. But doing things like 5am beach sessions etc can cause the group to rupture if the same protagonists are causing the group to be penalised...and if players aren't all in, well...

Then there is the CBA which limits a lot of player discipline to the whole match day selection thing you were referring too...

I've been critical of the way things were managed in 2017, 2018 and 2019 - in 2019 the on field sulking of players who believed that they were being played out of position was galling to watch, not to mention the repeated failures of effort in games vs Carlton, North and GWS in particular - but it would have been bloody hard especially given the trust gained by many of those players during 2016 AND the 'loose' controls around them/trust afforded them throughout that successful season.

Who were the players for us that you noticed visibly looked unmotivated?

[GVGjr]

Well, to quote someone famous who famously said something along the lines of "You have to lose a few soldiers".

The challenge with making an example of someone like Jake is that you don't know whether the message sent by the club is the message received by the players/playing group. I mean, the club is sending a "We will support you, but there is a line that must not be crossed" type message (it hopes). But is that what the players "hear". Or do they hear "Yeah, do they might move you on but there are 17 other clubs and, well, I got a B-I-G pay rise".

Player discipline is a tricky thing. The things that they care about the most - time off (aka less meetings) and cash - are pretty easily manipulated. But doing things like 5am beach sessions etc can cause the group to rupture if the same protagonists are causing the group to be penalised...and if players aren't all in, well...

Then there is the CBA which limits a lot of player discipline to the whole match day selection thing you were referring too...

I've been critical of the way things were managed in 2017, 2018 and 2019 - in 2019 the on field sulking of players who believed that they were being played out of position was galling to watch, not to mention the repeated failures of effort in games vs Carlton, North and GWS in particular - but it would have been bloody hard especially given the trust gained by many of those players during 2016 AND the 'loose' controls around them/trust afforded them throughout that successful season.

There are always reasons not to do things (complex or otherwise) but at the end of the day some other players were being impacted by the unchecked actions of others and if the management team sticks to the principle of being fair and consistent with the standards applied then in a professional environment you will get better outcomes. To do nothing or to walk past it is a worse message for the perceptive people within the team.

I don't think it's coincidental that once the distracted few at the club were moved on a far better version of the Western Bulldogs appeared in 2019. Perhaps there were a variety of reasons not to take action earlier but I wonder what the impact really was for not addressing things sooner.

[mjp]

Who were the players for us that you noticed visibly looked unmotivated?

I think I posted enough about this last year...I have resolved to take a more positive approach in season 2020 but you are welcome to search the game day threads for any of the matches I mentioned!

[Danjul]

The emotional breakthrough for supporters last year was defeating Geelong.

That team seemed to be made by reassembling the group of players who defeated Geelong the previous year.

I don’t accept the argument that the trajectory that had the wooden spoon in sight was simply due to players not being motivated.

But now the club has rediscovered how to win I hope to see a lot of it in 2020.

[ledge]

I think it’s a matter of picking players who are driven to succeed and drive others.
I see that in our picks the last two years if you read their Bio, Smith and Weightman are stand outs and even when we recruit players from other clubs they are driving to improve as a person and as a team.
We had a few with talent but not in the right head space and the flag made the ego go over the top.
I do believe we have a very team orientated list now, which I expect to improve and stay up for at least 5 years.
Keeping in mind it only takes one bad apple though.