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GVGjr
28-02-2020, 07:08 AM
Having seen the challenges Liam Picken went through I think the Western Bulldog supporters would have a greater appreciation on the effect concussion can have a player not only on field but also off field. Paddy McCartin has also had a promising career stopped by the impacts of concussion and the same with former Bulldog Koby Stevens

After reading about the legendary Graham "Polly" Farmer there has been a real focus on what the AFL should be doing in response to the concussion issue and many are calling for the banning of bumps and even tackling. I can see that the concussion tests are going to be ramped up by the AFL and Liam Picken suggested an extra player on the bench to specifically cover when players are being tested. I think that might have some merit.

The Herald Sun is running with the following story

Experts call for change (https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/more-news/experts-call-for-change-as-football-world-reacts-to-graham-polly-farmer-cte-shock/news-story/cc13fb602f7c1a7dc8508a92a3cd63df)

Experts have called for wholesale changes to Australian rules, from banning the bump to altering junior training methods, in a bid to curtail the concussion scourge, linked to the death of Geelong great Graham ‘Polly’ Farmer.

Graham “Polly’ Farmer’s bombshell CTE diagnosis has triggered calls for the bump to be banned and footy’s “fabric” to be changed forever.

As concussion-stricken former high-flyer Shaun Smith warned there were “a thousand more Polly Farmers out there”, coaching legend Mark Williams led a push to stamp out dangerous hip-and-shoulders.

And the American godfather of CTE research Chris Nowinski says there would be a dramatic reduction in future cases if all contact training drills were banned and juniors prevented from tackling until 15 years of age.

The AFL last night said it had enforced tough new concussion guidelines for this season to address growing fears over player retirements forced by head knocks.

But Greg Griffin, the lead lawyer behind a proposed Federal Court concussion damages claim against the league and its clubs, said the Farmer revelations were a litigation “game-changer”.

“It is clear now that concussions that have not properly been handled by sporting bodies are killing people,” Griffin declared.

The league has been hit by a spate of retirements because of concussion including Liam Picken, Matt Maguire, Sam Blease, Jack Frost, Justin Clarke, Patrick McCartin, Leigh Adams and Koby Stevens.

Port Adelaide legend Williams was the man who called on the AFL to crack down on headhigh hits, which resulted in landmark tribunal penalties and a massive reduction in dangerous blows.

He told the Herald Sun he believed the next step was banning the bumping of unsuspecting players given how dangerous sub-concussions and concussions were.

“I don’t understand why we bump,” he said.

“I remember when Byron Pickett got rubbed out for six weeks for a bump and I put it to everyone at that stage — why not eliminate bumps and just tackle.

“When both players are going down to pick up the ball a collision is going to occur but not too many players get injured in that instance compared to others when you have the opportunity to tackle and you don’t. Change it and make it safer for players.”

Ex-Demon Smith, 50, was “knocked out cold” 12-14 times during his 109-game career with Melbourne and North Melbourne on top of dozens of sub-*!concussive hits.

He believes he is suffering from his own CTE symptoms.

“I saw what Polly’s family said in the paper about him being angry and having mood swings … and I just went tick, tick, tick, tick, tick. “It was like reading about me. I felt sad for the Farmer family.”

Ex-St Kilda and Brisbane hard man Matt Maguire, forced from the game from concussion, wondered whether he would want his children to play in the aggressive manner he did.

“I was brought up to never take your eyes off the ball and if you do you are a coward,” he said.

Dual Richmond premiership star Jack Riewoldt labelled the Farmer revelations as “scary”.

“You don’t think straight when you have got a concussion. I look back on mine and it scares me a bit.”

Top sports medico Peter Larkins said the only way to truly limit the incidence of concussion – in particular the asymptomatic subconcussive episodes – was to change “the fabric of the game” and make it less of a contact sport.

“We’re known for our physical sport, we are known for our tackling, we are known for bumping – overseas people love to watch the game,” Dr Larkins said.

“Perhaps we have been fooling ourselves, perhaps we need to be making the game less physical. I can’t believe I’m saying that, I love watching footy.

Whether they even (need to) get tougher. It’s the fabric of the game that we are going to change a lot.”

The AFL does not contribute a cent of its own funding to concussion research, with the $250,000 annual research funding coming from player fines.

But AFLPA CEO Paul Marsh said that level of funding was appropriate.

Concussion advocates like Peter Jess have called on the league to fund as much as $10 million a year for research into concussion diagnosis but also rehabilitation techniques for players battling the effects of recent concussions.

Jess called on the AFL to begin “sensible negotiations about compensation for the approximate 6500 past players likely to be suffering long-term neurological damage”.

“We knew from the science that it was only a matter of time before we would have confirmation that CTE was and is a product of AFL football,” Jess said.

The league said in a statement it would “continue to invest in research to better identify and manage concussion”.

“The AFL thanks the Farmer family for their important contribution to research in this area, which further enhances Mr Farmer’s legacy in Australian football,” it said.

“The health and safety of all players in our game is paramount and as knowledge and understanding of concussion has increased, the AFL has strengthened match day protocols, changed the Laws of the Game to further discourage high contact and has improved the identification of potential concussive incidents through the use of video.”

GVGjr
28-02-2020, 07:08 AM
I'd be interested in everyone's thoughts

AshMac
28-02-2020, 08:04 AM
Really serious and one that will only get more pronounced as there is greater attention on players post football, more mediums for stories to be told and better medical linkage between conditions and causes.

Reading that article, it appears there is a concern at junior, amateur and AFL levels - and quite rightly so. I have stronger leniency for intense physicality at AFL level where athletes are professionally trained and rehabilitated but donÂ’t see that drastic a change to our game being applied to one level but not all.

Personally, I donÂ’t mind the idea of banning the bump. Collisions when players are going for the ball - marks, stoppages, ground contests are fine as Williams says - but the notion of accidentally or deliberately lining a guy up without consideration of the ball could be a thing of days gone - increasing player safety with I think minimal impact on the enjoyment of watching.

The teal impact a change like that would have is the impact it has on a players willingness to compete hard physically - though like everything else I imagine thereÂ’ll be a transition period and then itÂ’ll become the norm.

Lastly, I do question how often removing bumps will prevent the big career ending injuries - eg Liam Picken - but can understand how itÂ’ll impact the number of bumps a player gets and hence the likelihood to incur damage over time.

Mofra
28-02-2020, 09:31 AM
A while ago (when GPS trackers started producing useful data) the game was measured as getting ~1.5% faster per season (average player running speed). Players are bigger than in previous decades, so the force behind hits is going to be a lot greater as well.

People these days go to the football to watch huge marks and amazing, low percentage goals rather than blokes belt the living snot out of each other. I think banning head high hits has been a huge success but not sure if they can ban head high contact altogether as some of the biggest hits these days seem tobe head-clases when players are attempting to mark or spoil.

Bulldog Joe
28-02-2020, 09:45 AM
When we look at this, we know it needs to change.

The bump cannot be a choice instead of a tackle.

Collisions will still occur as players go for the ball, but that should be the only way it occurs player on player.

You also can't eliminate players colliding in mid-air or falling to the ground and concussing themselves in marking attempts.

I also think the tackle needs modification, with frees paid against EVERY tackle that throws a player to the ground regardless of any impact. Tackle needs to be grab and hold ONLY, with more frees paid immediately to the tackler if the momentum is stopped and the ball retained, as that will actually protect the player tackled.

It would aslo enhance the game by reducing the perpetual scimmage.

bornadog
28-02-2020, 10:31 AM
Liam Picken has had alot to say on Twitter and has even called for a concussion substitute to come in. Lots of opinions on this as well, due to any injury and substitutes.

Dr Peter Larkin also has a lot to say on the matter, and seems there is an on going debate on what should be the right path to take.

Twodogs
28-02-2020, 10:42 AM
I was concussed at school when I was just a kid. We were building a treehouse and a plank of wood I had placed up the tree fell out of the tree again and hit me on the head. I hadn't told my mum and she went off to work the next day not knowing that I'd been knocked unconscious the day before and I had a massive headache and nanna didn't send me to school but then mum got home I had to go to the hospital. It was bad enough to be admitted for 3 days-all the kids from my class came in to see me there..

GVGjr
28-02-2020, 10:47 AM
Liam Picken has had alot to say on Twitter and has even called for a concussion substitute to come in. Lots of opinions on this as well, due to any injury and substitutes.

Dr Peter Larkin also has a lot to say on the matter, and seems there is an on going debate on what should be the right path to take.

I think Liam's suggestion is likely to happen

Twodogs
28-02-2020, 10:49 AM
I think Liam's suggestion is likely to happen

That would be a good thing.

A useful rule change, who'd have thunk that would happen!!!!

Murphy'sLore
28-02-2020, 11:03 AM
I was concussed at school when I was just a kid. We were building a treehouse and a plank of wood I had placed up the tree fell out of the tree again and hit me on the head. I hadn't told my mum and she went off to work the next day not knowing that I'd been knocked unconscious the day before and I had a massive headache and nanna didn't send me to school but then mum got home I had to go to the hospital. It was bad enough to be admitted for 3 days-all the kids from my class came in to see me there..

Never a dull moment with you TD ��

Twodogs
28-02-2020, 12:19 PM
Never a dull moment with you TD ��

It's been an action packed life so far.

Mofra
28-02-2020, 02:24 PM
Tim English might have played in Round 1 of the Marsh series if the 5 day protocol had not been introduced for this year. Ed Richards has been ruled out of the Round 2 Marsh series game so the stricter protocols are already having an impact.

westdog54
28-02-2020, 03:07 PM
https://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/afl-world-reacts-to-graham-polly-farmer-cte-bombshell/news-story/b490c79152378a388b3316a06374f987

Sam Newman, being his predictable self, has called for 'Skepticism' on the diagnosis.

“There is an element and modicum of truth in all these things and then they just get taken and made into cottage industries for people to exploit it for various reasons, they have vested interests in doing it,” Newman continued.

“I’m not saying necessarily in this case but it’s just extraordinary that no one’s ever heard of this, it’s never been discussed before, the family has never mentioned this about vomiting into buckets after games.

“I saw Graham Farmer and played with him after very gruelling and heavy games and he didn’t seem to suffer any ill effects necessarily. I wouldn’t like to argue with the doctors but I’d be sceptical about where all this is headed.”

Seriously, the man can go straight to hell as far as I'm concerned.

hujsh
28-02-2020, 03:20 PM
https://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/afl-world-reacts-to-graham-polly-farmer-cte-bombshell/news-story/b490c79152378a388b3316a06374f987

Sam Newman, being his predictable self, has called for 'Skepticism' on the diagnosis.

“There is an element and modicum of truth in all these things and then they just get taken and made into cottage industries for people to exploit it for various reasons, they have vested interests in doing it,” Newman continued.

“I’m not saying necessarily in this case but it’s just extraordinary that no one’s ever heard of this, it’s never been discussed before, the family has never mentioned this about vomiting into buckets after games.

“I saw Graham Farmer and played with him after very gruelling and heavy games and he didn’t seem to suffer any ill effects necessarily. I wouldn’t like to argue with the doctors but I’d be sceptical about where all this is headed.”

Seriously, the man can go straight to hell as far as I'm concerned.

I actually thought that seeing Polly Farmer on the front page of the Herald Sun would specifically get Sam to shut up on this matter but guess that was too generous to think seeing it impact someone he cares about would make him sympathetic to others.

GVGjr
28-02-2020, 04:31 PM
Just read that Daniel Venables from West Coast will sit the season out with concussion

West Coast will be without Daniel Venables for the entire 2020 season.

Venables is suffering from ongoing concussion symptoms and will be placed on the the club's long-term injury list.

The 21-year-old is still feeling the effects of a head knock he sustained in Round 9 last year that ruled him out for the remainder of 2019.

“We have recently consulted a specialist in Melbourne after a comprehensive rehabilitation period,” GM of Football Craig Vozzo told westcoasteagles.com.au.

“Unfortunately, after much consideration and following the medical advice, we have decided that the best course is for Dan to have the season off and not play this year.

“It is a decision that has not been taken lightly. Dan has put a lot of energy into getting himself ready to play as quickly as possible. It’s been frustrating for him, more particularly, and obviously the club.

“He has thrown everything into the best rehab preparation in readiness for the season, but he’s still symptomatic at the moment.

"Given the type of injury this is - being the head injury - the best course of action following the specialist’s advice is to have time out of the game.”

Venables was a member of West Coast’s premiership side in 2018 and has played a total of 21 games.

He comes out of contract at the end of the season.

Axe Man
28-02-2020, 04:57 PM
Just read that Daniel Venables from West Coast will sit the season out with concussion

West Coast will be without Daniel Venables for the entire 2020 season.

Venables is suffering from ongoing concussion symptoms and will be placed on the the club's long-term injury list.

The 21-year-old is still feeling the effects of a head knock he sustained in Round 9 last year that ruled him out for the remainder of 2019.

“We have recently consulted a specialist in Melbourne after a comprehensive rehabilitation period,” GM of Football Craig Vozzo told westcoasteagles.com.au.

“Unfortunately, after much consideration and following the medical advice, we have decided that the best course is for Dan to have the season off and not play this year.

“It is a decision that has not been taken lightly. Dan has put a lot of energy into getting himself ready to play as quickly as possible. It’s been frustrating for him, more particularly, and obviously the club.

“He has thrown everything into the best rehab preparation in readiness for the season, but he’s still symptomatic at the moment.

"Given the type of injury this is - being the head injury - the best course of action following the specialist’s advice is to have time out of the game.”

Venables was a member of West Coast’s premiership side in 2018 and has played a total of 21 games.

He comes out of contract at the end of the season.

I guess years ago he might have had a week off at best and been back playing, symptoms or not, and opened himself up for repeat concussions and potential further damage. At least everyone is much more aware of the dangers now. Hopefully he recovers and can get back out there.

bornadog
13-09-2024, 02:10 PM
Clubs are now building into contracts a cover for concussion retirements.

from AFL.com.au


The AFL has been gradually putting measures in place to guard against clubs giving out uber long deals to players, including making clubs require written board approval for contracts of six years or more, diluting the value of years given to free agents beyond five seasons and also introducing limits on salary cap relief provided for players who are forced to retire due to concussion.

Under the rules brought in this year, clubs will only be protected for the first three years of a deal following a player's retirement under the concussion policy.


The maximum threshold of salary cap relief provided by the AFL for those players will be 90 per cent of the remaining contract in the first year, 75 per cent in the second and 50 per cent in the third, with all years beyond that to be fully taken on by the club. Basically, any deal longer than three years comes with risk assessments on how the money is structured or potentially paid out if concussion issues occur.


It means that under the Andrew deal, the Suns have built in protections that mean in the case of concussion forcing the player out of the game, they are not on the hook for the full nine years.

josie
13-09-2024, 05:13 PM
Suns are protected by AFL. They can take that kind of (stupid) risk with Mac Andrews.

Means contracts will be front loaded more, if that?s not already the case.

Throughandthrough
13-09-2024, 11:40 PM
An interesting article i read recently that hasn’t had much traction is that one of the major insurers used by many afl players has announced that no new insurance for afl players will cover them from the long term affects of concussion. I was surprised that there isn’t a group insurance and players have to get their own insurance. No doubt many other insurance providers will go down the same path

I spent some time with Paul Seedsman recently and he’s really, really struggling. Has a one year old baby, his wife has had to go back to work, and a few days a week he can hardly get out of bed. He is just a shell of a man now.