Three things I've learned R1 V Collingwood

[Twodogs]

Ok let flu. Sorry fly.

[bulldogtragic]

1. Not sure what the MC we're thinking, what the players were giving or what the coach was doing to turn things around.
2. Cordy as our genuine FB and kick out specialist to centre our defence around. We are setting him to quit the game citing 'losing his passion to play'.
3. Lack of effort, desire, execution in an actual game is hard to accept. It's just a small one, but it's a small step back after bringing in Bruce & Keath after a strong back half of 2019. Lucky to lose by the margin we have.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

1. Keath is/will be a good addition, but he's not the primary thing our defense needed, and Gardner can't be expected to step up and fill that role in his 3rd game- if ever. That's on our recruiting and match committee
2. Our mids - we've thought they're up there as an upper echelon unit. Nope.
3. Bont is human. It's taken 6 years, but he's just served up a non AFL level performance for 4 Qtrs. WOW!

[Sedat]

1. The value of Libba cannot be measured in ability alone (although he is extremely talented). He is heart and soul, will always fly the flag and will never be a meek and mild presence
2. Bailey Smith sits very comfortably alongside our 'big 3' mids and will make it the 'big 4' by the end of the season
3. We learnt absolutely nothing from the valuable lesson GWS gave to us in the EF. Instead other teams learnt lessons on how to beat us.

[AshMac]

Going to try the positives this season:

1. Keath was fantastic, played deep and high and looks like a trade steal
2. Cavarras goal was a great moment. He looks explosive off a stand still and his tackling looked great.

That’s all I have...

[Hotdog60]

1: Like many have said Keath looks to be a very good pick up and battle well on the night.
2: English is 23 and how long does it take to develop when your a ruckman, I think his still a few years off.
3: Smith doesn't look like a player who lets himself get the 2 year blues.

[SonofScray]

1. Bruce drops his head and stops chasing if things aren't going our way. I give him a reprieve because he was starved of opportunity, but his body language and second efforts were shit. Keep your feet and chase. This isn't piss weak St Kilda mate. Get to work.

2. We've made a mistake extending Bevo to the degree we did. He should have been sacked a while back. If that's a taste of what we'll continue to dish up... and he can't close this gap between completely uncompetitive when we're off, to brilliant when we're on, I can't see a future for him. One trick pony. Too stubborn. Bat shit crazy. Why can't we arrest the bleeding when we are down? Our games have a very linear flow from MC, to first bounce to final siren. If it's looks bad early, it gets worse. If it looks good, we kick on.

I'm not being entirely rational here but I want to break this belief that the bloke has an infinite cache of credits in the bank due to the flag that wagged. They're spent. All of them. No more excuses. No more benefit of the doubt. Just bloody perform.

3. My mood was always going to break due to work related, pandemic stress. I'm sad the Club, through that effort are now the receptacle for my anger and frustration.

[bornadog]

1. Having a go at the coach is premature - again
2. Keath a great acquistion
3. Smith is going to be special

This I didnt learn but knew:

EFFORT, EFFORT, EFFORT - don't wait for someone else to do it.

[GVGjr]

1 - Based on the performance against Collingwood hearing that we would use the debacle of the GWS final as motivation over the summer for the 2020 season was just a statement and not backed up by actions. We can use the game against Collingwood now as motivation against Carlton.
2 - Our match committee don't appear to have learned by last years failures and subsequent successes. We seem determined to again learn the hard way.
3 - With the ability to play on with our kick outs we must give the ball to Williams, Daniel and Suckling more.

[bornadog]

3 - With the ability to play on with our kick outs we must give the ball to Williams, Daniel and Suckling more.

I really think Suckling must play in the backline and also take the kickouts. I don't seem him as a forward, or as a wing.

[CarnTheScray]

I thought we learnt the lesson of playing Suckling forward. Every time he played forward last year he was shocking.

[ratsmac]

1. Our last 2 games (GWS, Collingwood) are not us and is embarrassing. I know we are much better than that and I'm sure they do too. Can't rest on your laurels boys. Luckily there plenty of time to fix it.

2. English needs to learn how to get aggressive and competitive. He looked spooked from the first bounce. Fair enough Grundy is a beast but get some body on him around the contest wouldn't hurt.

3. Our mids had their arse handed to them without much of a fight. That's new. They would normally try make it difficult for their opponents but they didn't last night. Collingwood took the ball away from the contest with too much ease with little pressure.

[soupman]

1. Having a go at the coach is premature - again

Is it though? How many seasons have we come into a season with baffling team selections and half baked gameplans. To his credit we usually simplifyit be half way through the season and perform better as a result, but it is hardly unreasonable to be critical of yet another dumb start to a season from the coaching box.

[bornadog]

Is it though? How many seasons have we come into a season with baffling team selections and half baked gameplans. To his credit we usually simplifyit be half way through the season and perform better as a result, but it is hardly unreasonable to be critical of yet another dumb start to a season from the coaching box.

Calling for his sacking is

[Danjul]

1.

2. English needs to learn how to get aggressive and competitive.

3. Our mids had their arse handed to them without much of a fight. That's new. They would normally try make it difficult for their opponents but they didn't last night. Collingwood took the ball away from the contest with too much ease with little pressure.

English should be shown the video of how Grundy rucked against him, and then trained to do the same thing.

Grundy hits the opponent’S body just before the ball arrives. he remains balanced and in the second or two that English took to compensate Grundy was able to palm the ball to someone in the designated position. Grundy then ran to a backup spot to make another option while our midfielders were trying to follow the ball.

To his credit English tried to counter This by jumping higher and earlier but lacked control if he hit the ball. On a few occasions I saw the ball go to Collingwood players who were on their own, their opponents setting up for a losing ruck.

[GVGjr]

Calling for his sacking is

Just one with plenty of reasons provided. I've seen worse on the coronavirus thread

[The Bulldogs Bite]

The lack of movement in our coaching ranks still infuriates me. I love what Bevo has done and I'm not writing him off but at the same time, I'm not convinced he's our long term option either.

He has (as does the rest of the staff) a lot to prove. No more credits, no more dumb selections.

[Bulldog4life]

1. Bont will never forget his official first game as captain.

2. Our on ball brigade, apart from Smith, were thrashed.

3. As bad as the loss was we have another sixteen games to go. I still have faith in the boys.

[GVGjr]

The lack of movement in our coaching ranks still infuriates me. I love what Bevo has done and I'm not writing him off but at the same time, I'm not convinced he's our long term option either.

He has (as does the rest of the staff) a lot to prove. No more credits, no more dumb selections.

Stability is good to a point especially if you are getting results as it's an indicator that you have the right mix.
Bringing Smith back into the line coaches should be a good move but we aren't necessarily tapping into what other clubs are doing.

We have backed the coach and I guess we have 'his team' behind him but if we continue to come up short then changes need to be considered.

I still think we have avoided some of the harder calls on the playing list but we need a lot more of the season to be played out.

[AshMac]

English should be shown the video of how Grundy rucked against him, and then trained to do the same thing.

Grundy hits the opponent’S body just before the ball arrives. he remains balanced and in the second or two that English took to compensate Grundy was able to palm the ball to someone in the designated position. Grundy then ran to a backup spot to make another option while our midfielders were trying to follow the ball.

To his credit English tried to counter This by jumping higher and earlier but lacked control if he hit the ball. On a few occasions I saw the ball go to Collingwood players who were on their own, their opponents setting up for a losing ruck.

Good points!

I can’t for the life of me understand why we don’t have a more defensive structure around stoppages 10m from opposition goal

[ratsmac]

Good points!

I can’t for the life of me understand why we don’t have a more defensive structure around stoppages 10m from opposition goal

I know right. When its a throw in or ball up near opposition goal I'm just waiting for our undersized or part time ruckman to get easily shoved aside and their ruckman grabs the ball from the ruck and bangs in an easy goal.

We seem to have some glaring problems in all areas of the ground and being round 1 after a full preseason, that's alarming.

[Remi Moses]

1 The calls to have Beveridge sacked are totally insane ( hey get on here if we start winning , don’t hide)
2. Total lack on intensity and effort( unacceptable) if it continues then Beveridge does deserve to come under pressure )
3. It’s a catch 22 with English . Bring in an experienced ruck and he doesn’t get enough 1st Ruck time

[Danjul]

1 The calls to have Beveridge sacked are totally insane ( hey get on here if we start winning , don’t hide)
2. Total lack on intensity and effort( unacceptable) if it continues then Beveridge does deserve to come under pressure )
3. It’s a catch 22 with English . Bring in an experienced ruck and he doesn’t get enough 1st Ruck time

This should say “Bring in an experienced ruck and he doesn’t need 1st Ruck time”.

English has been miscast because he is tall. He would be awesome if he had not been forced to struggle against experienced star ruckmen for years.

[Remi Moses]

So where does English play if he’s not rucking ?
Forward line isn’t an option with Naughton , Bruce and possibly Schache

[Remi Moses]

This should say “Bring in an experienced ruck and he doesn’t need 1st Ruck time”.

English has been miscast because he is tall. He would be awesome if he had not been forced to struggle against experienced star ruckmen for years.

Fair point , they bit the bullet and played him early in his career
Looking around O’Brien hadn’t played in 3 years until last year , and there’s many cases of ruckman biding their time and taking longer to become quality AFL Ruckmen

[GVGjr]

So where does English play if he’s not rucking ?
Forward line isn’t an option with Naughton , Bruce and possibly Schache

You would have to think one of those players will be in the ruck

[Danjul]

So where does English play if he’s not rucking ?
Forward line isn’t an option with Naughton , Bruce and possibly Schache

Naughton has had a couple of good games on the forward line , I must admit that.

Would we have a better team with

Naughton : full back.
English : Centre Half Forward
Bruce : full forward

ruck : Trengove or Sweet

I think so

[kruder]

I really think Suckling must play in the backline and also take the kickouts. I don't seem him as a forward, or as a wing.

Absolutely ditto JJ.

I'm more worried about our movement off half back on Friday night, there was no system at all.

[bornadog]

Absolutely ditto JJ.

I'm more worried about our movement off half back on Friday night, there was no system at all.

Yes I said that during the game. We were beaten in the midfield, but also we didn't have any run and carry.

I think we have too many HBF that are similar and we are trying to fit them all into a position somewhere on the ground.

[GVGjr]

Yes I said that during the game. We were beaten in the midfield, but also we didn't have any run and carry.

I think we have too many HBF that are similar and we are trying to fit them all into a position somewhere on the ground.
Fully agree BAD, perhaps backman have an inherent skill that we value and an ability to adapt to other roles but we have an abundance of mid sized defenders and keep asking the likes of Suckling and JJ to fill other roles. Ed Richards is a classic example of being drafted as a defender, played well as a defender in his first season but now has to adapt to other roles.

[GVGjr]

1 The calls to have Beveridge sacked are totally insane ( hey get on here if we start winning , don’t hide)
2. Total lack on intensity and effort( unacceptable) if it continues then Beveridge does deserve to come under pressure )
3. It’s a catch 22 with English . Bring in an experienced ruck and he doesn’t get enough 1st Ruck time

Sorry to be pedantic but it was just one call not multiple calls as this sort of implies and that call was supported by reasons not just emotion.

[Remi Moses]

I think more than one person on this forum has wanted him sacked
The first half of last year in particular

[Mantis]

I think more than one person on this forum has wanted him sacked
The first half of last year in particular

The first half of last year was extremely poor and we had every right to question if Beveridge was the correct person to lead us... The cluster*!*!*!*! that was Friday nights performance needs to be examined as we’ve had 6 months to work on the things that failed us in our EF and it seems we haven’t learnt a thing... more of that and questions need to be asked again.

[bornadog]

The first half of last year was extremely poor and we had every right to question if Beveridge was the correct person to lead us... The cluster*!*!*!*! that was Friday nights performance needs to be examined as we’ve had 6 months to work on the things that failed us in our EF and it seems we haven’t learnt a thing... more of that and questions need to be asked again.

Absolutelty questions need to be asked, but sacking is a bit extreme.

[GVGjr]

I think more than one person on this forum has wanted him sacked
The first half of last year in particular

I know I'm being pedantic again but this is the 3 things I learned about round one vs Collingwood. Last year is last year on threads like this.

[Rocket Science]

The first half of last year was extremely poor and we had every right to question if Beveridge was the correct person to lead us... The cluster*!*!*!*! that was Friday nights performance needs to be examined as we’ve had 6 months to work on the things that failed us in our EF and it seems we haven’t learnt a thing... more of that and questions need to be asked again.

This is what probably burns the most after Friday.

Ignoring all the external bum pats anointing us as top four with a bullet - which look hilarious at the minute - it's all the messaging out of the club itself since last year about atonement that ring so utterly hollow now. Given their first chance to respond the performance was meek and when challenged resistance was zero to negligible, again.

Sure it's end of times and everyone's struggling to deal but if the boys weren't up for it they might've just offered Collingwood a walk-over.

Oh silly me, they did.

[Mantis]

Absolutelty questions need to be asked, but sacking is a bit extreme.

Terry Wheeler got sacked after r2 many moons ago... the performance on Friday was a bad a performance as we’ve had in a long time.. lots of expectations and we played like we didn’t care.

If the season continues next week we’d want to actually play like we give a *!*!*!*! or the drums start beating.

And rightly or wrongly Beveridge is responsible for how we perform. As we know he’s fiercely loyal and stubborn as so let’s hope it doesn’t take half the season to get the team set up to play at our best, because we were set up to fail on Friday night.

[soupman]

The first half of last year was extremely poor and we had every right to question if Beveridge was the correct person to lead us... The cluster*!*!*!*! that was Friday nights performance needs to be examined as we’ve had 6 months to work on the things that failed us in our EF and it seems we haven’t learnt a thing... more of that and questions need to be asked again.

This is my issue with Beveridge. He keeps on repeating the same mistakes. We have done this before, come in naiively to a match we should be much better mentally prepared for and been smashed for it. Also last year we seemed to learn at the half way point to pick better structured sides and that having "limited" role players like Trengove was still beneficial to the side, and yet here we are again. He has throughout his entire career with us backed in low percentage selection policies both in terms of this team structure and the individuals involved, in 2015 and 16 it worked, since then not so much. I would have hoped that by now he would've learnt that maybe being a bit ore conventional would be more beneficial.

I guess keeping in the theme of the thread.

Things I have learned from round 1:
-Beveridge is too stubborn to learn from his mistakes. He just keeps on keeping on with whatever he thinks is best and if it's shown to not be suitably effective he just doubles down on it.

*I don't want and haven't called for him to be sacked. But he should be facing a lot of scrutiny because whilst his strength in his convictions is one of his strong points, his stubbornness to change, which is basically the same thing, is one of his weakest.

[SonofScray]

Sorry to be pedantic but it was just one call not multiple calls as this sort of implies and that call was supported by reasons not just emotion.
None of this matters in 2020 but I’ll offer it up for what it is worth.

I understand it’s an extreme call. I don’t get joy from the thought.

However, my feeling early in 2018 was that the situation was heading south at a rate of knots. Until Naughts and Crozier started taking screamers, the joy in our game was whittling away.

We are good enough. The talent is there. I reckon for the most part, the effort is there (Friday a real worry on that front). It’s the system and cohesion across phases of the game that hasn’t been working often enough. We adjusted well late last year after some diabolical footy earlier. It took too long. The gap between diabolical and scintillating is still there.

I support the club and the coach, but the coach has to perform. Bevo post flag has been off, more than on. I think he has struggled with rule changes and player behaviour and probably his own will at times, his presentation was awful in parts of 18/19. He seems up for it now. And he’ll have to be. I sharpened the axe R2 2018 and put it in the corner on the balance of things. Reached for it last year but the club backed him in, so I did too. But I’m not putting it into the shed to rust away just yet.

I would have sacked him like we did Wheeler. We have backed him in. He needs to perform.

[jeemak]

Irrespective of coaching calamities, structural issues, team selection or whatever, the recurring and most consistent theme within our poor performances these past twelve months has been player effort and accountability.

Something that works when everyone is on can work, as long as everyone is on. Does anyone think Collingwood would have performed that way if they weren't actually on? Mark my words, whenever the league plays again Collingwood will have days when they're off, and they'll look like we did Friday night.

If our players, lead by the guys in the middle show up for a contest, we can competitive and who knows where it can go from there. Piss and moan about the coach all you like, it's up to the players to deliver a consistent effort when it counts.

[Mantis]

Irrespective of coaching calamities, structural issues, team selection or whatever, the recurring and most consistent theme within our poor performances these past twelve months has been player effort and accountability.

Something that works when everyone is on can work, as long as everyone is on. Does anyone think Collingwood would have performed that way if they weren't actually on? Mark my words, whenever the league plays again Collingwood will have days when they're off, and they'll look like we did Friday night.

If our players, lead by the guys in the middle show up for a contest, we can competitive and who knows where it can go from there. Piss and moan about the coach all you like, it's up to the players to deliver a consistent effort when it counts.

Of course the players are accountable for their performances last Friday night. We had no appetite to win the contest, tackled with no intent or purpose and made fundamental errors with both decision making & in executing their skills... but you actually need to set up the team to allow us the best chance to be competitive and that didn't happen... and it happens too often.

I really struggle to see what the use of a 3-4 month pre-season is when we seemingly change things up on a whim.

[CarnTheScray]

Most talent we've ever had at the Kennel. Unfortunately the players have no ambition.

[Mofra]

1. We need more bastard in the side. Cordy has it, Bailey Smith has it, and Libba on the sidelines. That's where it ends. Maybe Porter.
What we would give right now for a Clay Smith or a Matthew Boyd or a Tim Callan.

2. 2 inside 50s halfway through the second quarter feels like a 100 point drubbing.

3. English still has a long way to go - he can do everything very, very well until he has an opponent.

[comrade]

1. We need more bastard in the side. Cordy has it, Bailey Smith has it, and Libba on the sidelines. That's where it ends. Maybe Porter.
What we would give right now for a Clay Smith or a Matthew Boyd or a Tim Callan.


It's a societal issue. I just finished reading a book called Iron John about the devolution of masculinity in modern society, our playing group is a good example of it.

[comrade]

1. We need more bastard in the side. Cordy has it, Bailey Smith has it, and Libba on the sidelines. That's where it ends. Maybe Porter.
What we would give right now for a Clay Smith or a Matthew Boyd or a Tim Callan.


It's a societal issue. I just finished reading a book called Iron John about the devolution of masculinity in modern society, our playing group is a good example of it.

If they spent the next 6 months out bush, amongst strong male leaders doing inner work, we'd be a much better footy team for it.

[Mofra]

It's a societal issue. I just finished reading a book called Iron John about the devolution of masculinity in modern society, our playing group is a good example of it.

If they spent the next 6 months out bush, amongst strong male leaders doing inner work, we'd be a much better footy team for it.
Adelaide tried a camp for that, it didn't work.

I do wonder who our "tough rookie" is. Cavarra has a similar story as Matty Boyd, Dale Morris, Liam Picken, but he's hardly the same sort of player. Do we throw Cal Porter to the wolves and throw him in the middle, and let Macrae sulk on the wing for a game?
Will Libba be fit and if he is, roll the dice as a first-rotation mid?

Right now we have had a very poor final in which GWS turned up the heat and we wilted, and a game first-up where Collingwood pressured in the middle and we wilted. One game is an aberration, two games is the start of a trend.
Bont was belted by North a few years ago, he stood up and it made him as a player. Where has that Bontempelli gone?

Do we swap out Bailey Dale with Billy Gowers and say "Right Bailey, this bloke has 1% of your talent but 200% of your work ethic so he's in"?

[comrade]

Adelaide tried a camp for that, it didn't work.


It won't take a bandaid 1 week 'boot camp' approach to overcome the social programming and re-wire the mindset required to become fully integrated.

When recruiting, we would obviously be looking at personality testing, but something isn't working with our approach. We need to look at the player's relationship with their father, how much development has been left to the feminine influences in their life.

We need to be measuring a player's grittiness and target those with high levels.

[bornadog]

Bont was belted by North a few years ago, he stood up and it made him as a player. Where has that Bontempelli gone?

Do we swap out Bailey Dale with Billy Gowers and say "Right Bailey, this bloke has 1% of your talent but 200% of your work ethic so he's in"?

Billy does have some mongrel about him, whereas Dale I am still to be convinced he will make it.

[Mofra]

Billy does have some mongrel about him, whereas Dale I am still to be convinced he will make it.
I think Bailey Dale can be a very good home and away player. Is that enough? I am yet to be convinced he'd stand up in a high pressure game.

How do we think he would have played against GWS in 2016? That should be our guide, that level of intensity and toughness. Multiple players, at multiple times, stood up with hard contests (yes I'm thinking of that Clay Smith ground ball against Griffen where neither player one it but Clay was 100% committed and we Caleb Daniel benefitted).

[Twodogs]

Sorry to be pedantic but it was just one call not multiple calls as this sort of implies and that call was supported by reasons not just emotion.

I've been saying and saying that Bevo needs somebody to mind his back. Given the chance this club will eat it's own for no other reason than they sort of felt like it.

[GVGjr]

I've been saying and saying that Bevo needs somebody to mind his back. Given the chance this club will eat it's own for no other reason than they sort of felt like it.

I've never quite grasped why he would need that. I would have thought that sort of fits in with Maple's and Grant's involvement with him.

[Danjul]

I think Bailey Dale can be a very good home and away player. Is that enough? I am yet to be convinced he'd stand up in a high pressure game.

How do we think he would have played against GWS in 2016? That should be our guide, that level of intensity and toughness. Multiple players, at multiple times, stood up with hard contests (yes I'm thinking of that Clay Smith ground ball against Griffen where neither player one it but Clay was 100% committed and we Caleb Daniel benefitted).

The problem with Friday was locked in on Thursday. I have a friend who refused to watch because he said it was going to be a repeat of last year’s Carlton match. It was that predictable, not surprising that Collingwood knew what to do.

It is not attitude. We simply had 16 players in the wrong place doing the wrong thing.

For example, Dale is an excellent finisher within 45 metres of goal. Look at his history. He has never been a play maker.

Cordy has never been a key position backman. Last year many of his opponents kicked personal bests. As a result of having him at full back Keath was drawn too deep, having to support him and Crozier was trying to jump over both to spoil. Once the panic set in (very early) more erratic play generated more errors. Look at Hunter - I think he had a contribution to Collingwood’s first three goals.

I suspect most of the players were trying to do their best with the game plan they had been given. Unfortunately the ball was bounced it was immediately obvious that the plan was rubbish. And it will be the next time it’s used.

[jeemak]

The problem with Friday was locked in on Thursday. I have a friend who refused to watch because he said it was going to be a repeat of last year’s Carlton match. It was that predictable, not surprising that Collingwood knew what to do.

It is not attitude. We simply had 16 players in the wrong place doing the wrong thing.

For example, Dale is an excellent finisher within 45 metres of goal. Look at his history. He has never been a play maker.

Cordy has never been a key position backman. Last year many of his opponents kicked personal bests. As a result of having him at full back Keath was drawn too deep, having to support him and Crozier was trying to jump over both to spoil. Once the panic set in (very early) more erratic play generated more errors. Look at Hunter - I think he had a contribution to Collingwood’s first three goals.

I suspect most of the players were trying to do their best with the game plan they had been given. Unfortunately the ball was bounced it was immediately obvious that the plan was rubbish. And it will be the next time it’s used.

So, was the game plan to be second to the football and make sure you don't apply any pressure from the first bounce? Or was that a protest to the actual game plan they didn't like?

If your midfield isn't getting the ball forward your forwards are going to be rubbish. If your midfield isn't applying defencive pressure the opposition is going to get it in deep and frequently and your defenders are going to look rubbish. If you're trying to rebound from deep spots continually under pressure you're going to struggle to rebound quickly and effectively, and your rebounding game will look rubbish.

[bornadog]

So, was the game plan to be second to the football and make sure you don't apply any pressure from the first bounce? Or was that a protest to the actual game plan they didn't like?

If your midfield isn't getting the ball forward your forwards are going to be rubbish. If your midfield isn't applying defencive pressure the opposition is going to get it in deep and frequently and your defenders are going to look rubbish. If you're trying to rebound from deep spots continually under pressure you're going to struggle to rebound quickly and effectively, and your rebounding game will look rubbish.

Spot on, you can forget about positions, that is only what is written on paper. Football is played differently these days to the so called good Ol days. You don't win the clearances (especially out of the centre), or stoppages and contested ball, you are 90% of the time gawn.

[Danjul]

So, was the game plan to be second to the football and make sure you don't apply any pressure from the first bounce? Or was that a protest to the actual game plan they didn't like?

If your midfield isn't getting the ball forward your forwards are going to be rubbish. If your midfield isn't applying defencive pressure the opposition is going to get it in deep and frequently and your defenders are going to look rubbish. If you're trying to rebound from deep spots continually under pressure you're going to struggle to rebound quickly and effectively, and your rebounding game will look rubbish.

The players are approaching their prime and have experience. To have 2 inside 50’s by the 14 minute mark of the second quarter means the players were irrelevant, not just down on form.

Why didn’t the midfield get the ball forward? We saw arguably our best player handball 30 metres to two unmanned Collingwood players. Why did he do that? What was he thinking?

Look at Collingwood’s first goal. All the Dogs trying to spoil, hitting the ball to waiting crumbers. Should not happen.

It is not effort that was lacking, it was intelligence. Obviously it has been trained out of them.

or they had an impossible game structure - that has been proven unworkable before.

[Twodogs]

I've never quite grasped why he would need that. I would have thought that sort of fits in with Maple's and Grant's involvement with him.

Because we are the bulldogs and we catch and kill our own. We did it in 1957 and I'm concerned we will do it again.

[hujsh]

It won't take a bandaid 1 week 'boot camp' approach to overcome the social programming and re-wire the mindset required to become fully integrated.

When recruiting, we would obviously be looking at personality testing, but something isn't working with our approach. We need to look at the player's relationship with their father, how much development has been left to the feminine influences in their life.

We need to be measuring a player's grittiness and target those with high levels.

Yeah none of this stuff sounds like a recipe for disaster at all.

[comrade]

Yeah none of this stuff sounds like a recipe for disaster at all.

Care to elaborate?

[hujsh]

Care to elaborate?

Lots of the things you mentioned raises red flags.

'Re-wiring' young men with talk of being more masculine, and rejecting draftees because they have more feminine influences in their life (sure that'll go great with Bont with the way he seems to regard his sisters and the work he does outside footy) etc sounds like a great way to end up on the front page for the wrong reasons.

Also 'overcome the social programming and re-wire the mindset required to become fully integrated' sounds like something from Scientology.

[comrade]

Lots of the things you mentioned raises red flags.

'Re-wiring' young men with talk of being more masculine, and rejecting draftees because they have more feminine influences in their life (sure that'll go great with Bont with the way he seems to regard his sisters and the work he does outside footy) etc sounds like a great way to end up on the front page for the wrong reasons.

Also 'overcome the social programming and re-wire the mindset required to become fully integrated' sounds like something from Scientology.

Fair enough, no point getting into it when it's obvious you've got no interest in having a mature discussion on the topic.

[hujsh]

Fair enough, no point getting into it when it's obvious you've got no interest in having a mature discussion on the topic.

Well we can agree on there probably being no point in discussing it much more, if nothing else.