Hypothetical: At the start of 2021...

[mjp]

...

1/. List sizes are now THIRTY FIVE (35) - FLAT. One list, no rookies etc. 35.
2/. There WAS a 2020 draft and the minimum number of selections was TWO.

Who has been delisted to enable this to occur. Assume contract status doesn't matter as the AFL have paid out all multi-year contracts for delisted players.

p.s. I dont want to tell anyone how to suck eggs and the thread will go where it goes, BUT if we could stick to the premise rather than arguing about the premise that would be AMAZING.

p.p.s. I think all this means we need to delist Twelve (12) players in order to get to a list of 33 before the draft.
...

[Mofra]

Touygh, really tough. 12 is huge. Definitely guys I'd rather keep on that list will have to make way.

Porter, Jong, Trengove, Dickson, Suckling, Khamis, Gowers, Greene, Lynch, Gardner, Hayes, Dale.

I really want to keep Caverra... but we have two NGA kids (JUH, Raak) and a FS (McPherson) so I suspect we will want three spots open.
I have assumed first year players on their mandated 2 year contract are untouchable, and Sweet is retained as the only half-decent ruck option we have (Bevo doesn't seem to want to play Trengove).

Gardner is a harsh call, we really need a tall defender. I'd be tempted to tap Schache on the shoulder despite how good his field kicking and workrate ahead of the ball is.

[bornadog]

I would delist the following, assuming I can upgrade some rookies on to main list to still get me to 33

Suckling, Matthew
Dickson, Tory
Lloyd, Sam
Jong, Lin
Gowers, Billy
Smith, Roarke R
Hayes, Will
Lynch, Bradley
Greene, Fergus
Gardner, Ryan R
Garcia, Riley
Khamis, Buku R
Porter, Callum
Sweet, Jordon R

This will leave me with 33. I am a bit harsh on Garcia, but with an ACL, he is an unknown. I have upgraded La Young to a spot

I know the OP says delist 12 but need to also get rid of rookies

[Rocco Jones]

Billy Gowers
Fergus Greene
Lin Jong
Brad Lynch
Ben Cavarra
Callum Porter
Tory Dickson
Matt Suckling
Jordan Sweet
Roarke Smith
Ryan Gardner
Buku Khamis

[GVGjr]

So the task we have been handed is the need to get the playing list down to 33 players from 45

With that in mind:
Rookies - Roarke Smith, Ryan Gardner and Buku Khamis
Senior list - Lin Jong, Tory Dickson, Jackson Trengove, Fergus Greene, Bradley Lynch, Callum Porter, Matthew Suckling, Riley Garcia and Billy Gowers

I know this is going to sound harsh but I kept looking to Tom Liberatore and Easton Wood because I think Suckling offers more for us in 2021. Ben Cavarra and Will Hayes were also under consideration. I'd prefer to keep Trengove but I wonder if he is genuinely in the selection mix with us.

I need to see how that list looks after the above culling

[Twodogs]

So is this a hypothetical exercise or have you heard something Mike?

[GVGjr]

So is this a hypothetical exercise or have you heard something Mike?

There is a strong chance that the numbers quoted in the opening post is how it may play out. Certainly a playing list of 35 is a likely scenario.

[Happy Days]

Wow this would be chaos.

I’d go with:

Gardner
Gowers
R Smith
Sweet
Khamis
Lynch
Porter
Hayes
Dickson
Jong
Duryea
Greene

I want to say Cordy but that would be too much sunk costs. I really like Greene but can’t justify keeping him over Dale.

Would there be a second stage of list culling to assess if we want to bring in any of the cast offs from other clubs?

[mjp]

Since I started it, I though I would shard what I have:

Key Backs: 4
- Le Young
- Alex Keath
- Zaine Cordy
- *** 1 SPOT LEFT

Medium Defenders: 7
- Crozier
- Duryea
- JJ
- Williams
- Daniel
- Lachie Young
- Easton Wood

Key Forwards: 4
- Naughton
- Bruce
- Schache
- *** 1 SPOT

Small Forwards: 2
- Weightman
- Cavarra

Medium Forwards: 5
- Greene
- Dale
- Lloyd
- *** 2 SPOTS

Rucks: 2
- English
- Sweet

Inside Mids: 7
- Bont
- Macrae
- Dunks
- Smith
- Lipinski
- West
- Liberatore

Outside Mids: 4
- Hunter
- Richards
- Vandermeer
- *** 1 SPOT


All of which means I haven't found a spot for:
Suckling (and I have been looking...but really he needs to be a medium defender.)
Wallis
Trengove (there is a key back sitting there for him)
McClean - I think he needs to play as a mid to be of value.
Khamis
Gowers
Porter
Dickson
Hayes - there is an outside mid spot available
Lynch
R Smith - Again, outside mid spot is there
Gardner - Key back spot is vacant
Jong
Butler
Garcia

So I have 15 pushing for spots in a list of 35. But the balance of the list is again in question...we have 2-or-3 draftees coming in and we need to maintain some balance in our list - with lists of 35 this will be more important than ever...

[Hotdog60]

Is the shorten list to save money ie wages?
If it is then it's time to removed contracts and replace it with wages.
If I'm going to cut hard then maybe the following.
Not that I want to get rid of some on the list.

Matt Suckling
Jackson Trengove
Easton Wood
Sam Lloyd
Ben Cavarra
Tory Dickson
Bailey Dale
Will Hayes
Caleb Daniel
Brad Lynch
Lin Jong
Roarke Smith
Ryan Gardner

[Rocco Jones]

List of players coming out of contract
Easton Wood: 2020
Billy Gowers: 2020
Fergus Greene: 2020
Jackson Trengove: 2020
Taylor Duryea: 2020
Lin Jong: 2020
Brad Lynch: 2020
Ben Cavarra: 2020
Will Hayes: 2020
Callum Porter: 2020
Tory Dickson: 2020
Matt Suckling: 2020 (FA)
Lachie Young: 2020 (Rookie)
Jordan Sweet: 2020 (Rookie)
Roarke Smith: 2020 (Rookie)
Ryan Gardner: 2020 (Rookie)
Buku Khamis: 2020 (Rookie)

[Rocco Jones]

I think of the players out of contract...

GONE
Gowers
Greene
Jong
Lynch
Porter
Dickson
Sweet
R Smith
Gardner
Khamis

That leaves two from:
Wood- think leadership in a tough time and ready to go factor keeps him around. Year off might help his body out too.
Trengove- can play down back and in the ruck. Doesn't seem too highly rated by the club, so definitely in trouble. I'd keep him.
Duryea- injury concerns but I think we are a better team with him in it.
Cavarra- unfortunately I think he is one that needs to go just to get to 35.
Hayes- we don't have manny wing type guys and he is that.
Suckling- last one to go. Would rather keep him with the need for ready to go players.

[bulldogtragic]

Most seem like the same names.

Laterally, known quantities might have better trade value this year. I’d consider good offers on Wallis, Libba &/or Wood.

Free up spots, cash & hopefully still chase a Zac Williams.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Most seem like the same names.

Laterally, known quantities might have better trade value this year. I’d consider good offers on Wallis, Libba &/or Wood.

Free up spots, cash & hopefully still chase a Zac Williams.

I'd add McLean to that list.

I really like him but he's stagnated for a while and his value would still be decent

[boydogs]

I would cut fringe or unestablished players like Cavarra and Garcia before I would cut Lloyd or Suckling

[GVGjr]

So the task we have been handed is the need to get the playing list down to 33 players from 45

With that in mind:
Rookies - Roarke Smith, Ryan Gardner and Buku Khamis
Senior list - Lin Jong, Tory Dickson, Jackson Trengove, Fergus Greene, Bradley Lynch, Callum Porter, Matthew Suckling, Riley Garcia and Billy Gowers

I know this is going to sound harsh but I kept looking to Tom Liberatore and Easton Wood because I think Suckling offers more for us in 2021. Ben Cavarra and Will Hayes were also under consideration. I'd prefer to keep Trengove but I wonder if he is genuinely in the selection mix with us.

I need to see how that list looks after the above culling

I've had a rethink on the players I have selected and despite having too many half back flankers it would require cutting either Butler or Vandermeer to better balance the list and I suspect we will endeavor to remodel them into midfielders.
I have also placed the players where our WB website credits them ie Wallis as a mid not a forward

Tall Defenders: Lewis Young Trengove* Cordy and Keath
General Defenders: Crozier, Wood, Duryea, Butler, Vandermeer, Williams, Daniel, Johannisen and Lachie Young

Midfield: Wallis, Bontempelli, Dunkley, B.Smith, Hunter, Macrae, Richards, Liberatore, Lipinski and Hayes
Ruck man: Sweet and English

Tall Forwards: Schache, Bruce and Naughton
General Forwards: West, McLean, Weightman, Lloyd and Dale

I have dropped off Cavarra for Trengove from the original nominations as we would still be too light on for rucks and key defender coverage.
I suspect Wallis will be asked to play as a forward. Richards will spend time there as well and perhaps Williams so despite cutting into the general forwards we can cover them

Some tough decision were made and a few very good prospects have been let go.

Could we look at moving the likes of Duryea into a forward position?

[bornadog]

Could we look at moving the likes of Duryea into a forward position?

He has played forward at the Hawks, but with limited success. It is always possible to try him out forward. I thought when he came back into the team in round 14 (after missing 10 games) the backline looked and performed a lot better.

[mjp]

Most seem like the same names.

Laterally, known quantities might have better trade value this year. I’d consider good offers on Wallis, Libba &/or Wood.

Free up spots, cash & hopefully still chase a Zac Williams.

The problem is, there aren't going to be any offers....every club is going to face the same challenge of cutting 12-15 players...addin g 'MORE' to that list is going to be an enormous challenge...

[mjp]

Could we look at moving the likes of Duryea into a forward position?

The challenge with this type of thinking is if it doesn't work, then your list is IMMEDIATELY unbalanced...and it is 100% YOUR FAULT. If he isn't good enough to demand a spot in his 'BEST' role - and is not 'PROVEN' in a secondary role, well...

[1eyedog]

Dale

Big call there surely the boy can play?

[GVGjr]

The challenge with this type of thinking is if it doesn't work, then your list is IMMEDIATELY unbalanced...and it is 100% YOUR FAULT. If he isn't good enough to demand a spot in his 'BEST' role - and is not 'PROVEN' in a secondary role, well...

Even delisting the 'more likely' players it makes our unbalanced list even more noticeable.

I like Duryea and Crozier as defenders because they help organise the back line but we need to look at move some of them into other roles.

[Happy Days]

Even delisting the 'more likely' players it makes our unbalanced list even more noticeable.

I like Duryea and Crozier as defenders because they help organise the back line but we need to look at move some of them into other roles.

I named Duryea as one of the cuts mostly to spark some conversation and no one has bitten, but I’m curious as to why he’s a lock to be retained in this scenario.

He’d be going into his age 30 season in 2021 in a well stocked position coming off a significant injury, and it’s not like we’re talking about an all-world caliber talent.

[GVGjr]

I named Duryea as one of the cuts mostly to spark some conversation and no one has bitten, but I’m curious as to why he’s a lock to be retained in this scenario.

He’d be going into his age 30 season in 2021 in a well stocked position coming off a significant injury, and it’s not like we’re talking about an all-world caliber talent.

I think he is a good player, not a world beater but better than many others we have on the list. I'm not too concerned about his age because I think he was a good contributor last year for us and like Crozier is very good at organising the other defenders.

If he was to be delisted due to the down sizing of the playing list then so be it but I would look at others before him

[Mofra]

Big call there surely the boy can play?
Can he?

He can kick goals when things are going well and the play is open BUT - has he ever played well in a high pressure game?
I honestly worry he is now a H&A specialist who disappears in big games, pressure games and will not stand up to finals football.

He certainly has talent but cutting a list to 35 spots means hard, uncomfortable calls have to be made. For list balance do we want Dale or a small forward who can tackle and crumb?

[Mofra]

I named Duryea as one of the cuts mostly to spark some conversation and no one has bitten, but I’m curious as to why he’s a lock to be retained in this scenario.

He’d be going into his age 30 season in 2021 in a well stocked position coming off a significant injury, and it’s not like we’re talking about an all-world caliber talent.
Here's our list of small lockdown defenders:

1. Duryea

The fact he can lock down on an opponent and actually use the ball means he's a lock for me. With a list of 35 age becomes less important as you can't carry many kids who "might" make it an we have a young list profile anyway.