Hypothetical #2: At the start of 2021...

[mjp]

...

The "SOFT CAP" on footy department spending is slashed by 1/3rd (down to $6million'ish)..and we have decisions to make. Assistant coaches, development coaches, massage therapists, yoga instructors, HP managers, video analysts...

We need to find "the one thing" to invest in that will:

- Provide us with a competitive advantage on game day.
- Provide us with a competitive advantage with regards attracting free agents.

All bets are off...we can do WHATEVER we want. Is our focus to be cranking up our footy department and doubling down on coaching mentors and 1-on-1 services, mental health services, physical recovery (cryo chambers, float tanks), creating a wellness/mindfulness centre with yoga, meditation etc, amping up the video to provide 3d modelling (and interactive vr systems for game sim)...the floor is yours...make a difference. The decks have been cleared due to the virus and everyone is starting again...and we don't want to be like everyone else...so our focus is...

[soupman]

In b4 we still have the same coaching panel for the 17th year in a row.

On the flipside to save money (admittedly not a lot, I don't think they are paid much) could we drastically reduce our scouting crew. Obviously Power and the new guy stay in their roles, but if as rumoured we go down to 35 on the list that means no rookies and no draft picks after 40. With a FA/Academy pick basically every year meaning maybe 1 live draft pick can we justify employing and paying a bunch of guys to come up with a shortlist of players we won't use?

I would suggest with the smaller list sizes it may be more imperative than ever to have a good medical crew, the complete lack of depth at any club means injuries could hit hard and quickly. I don't think this will attract players, North have been fantastic in this area and have only managed to secure second tier free agents, but it could be a huge advantage on field.

[bulldogtragic]

In b4 we still have the same coaching panel for the 17th year in a row.

On the flipside to save money (admittedly not a lot, I don't think they are paid much) could we drastically reduce our scouting crew. Obviously Power and the new guy stay in their roles, but if as rumoured we go down to 35 on the list that means no rookies and no draft picks after 40. With a FA/Academy pick basically every year meaning maybe 1 live draft pick can we justify employing and paying a bunch of guys to come up with a shortlist of players we won't use?

I would suggest with the smaller list sizes it may be more imperative than ever to have a good medical crew, the complete lack of depth at any club means injuries could hit hard and quickly. I don't think this will attract players, North have been fantastic in this area and have only managed to secure second tier free agents, but it could be a huge advantage on field.

Especially if the minimum list changes are only 2 per year. With Bevo’s generous loyalty to players, we are probably looking at 2 players a year. If F/S (Macca, West x 2, Darcy etc) accounted for on average 1 selection, that’s just - player who might be a former player rehired on form at reserve level. If that’s the case, then the team is in for a big cut.

[boydogs]

A coach like Beveridge that creates purpose and meaning to what we're doing becomes important

[Mofra]

Sav Rocca

plus

Unlimited shots on goal (the sports scientists can GAGF when it comes to goal kicking).

Everything else can fit under our existing structures, albeit with fewer staff. My reasons are:

Exhibit A: Levi Casbault. If I said he's an excellent kick for goal, you'd laugh. But he is (now). Sav turned his accuracy around from below average to above average, late in his career, over the course of a single pre-season. It's an achievement I rate highly and for all the fancy approaches to footy, kicking the goals with the chances you have is still the best way to win most games of football.

Exhibit B: Ben Brown. He takes a truckload of set shots, yes even the "easy" ones 30m directly in front. North do not restrict his goal kicking practice when he reaches his "load limit" according to the sports scientists. You can call him weird-looking, one dimensional, etc - we're read all the criticisms, but the fact is he's kicked more goals than any other player in the competition over the past 3 years.

Goals are good, really good. If we're going to stack the side with more marking ability than any other side in the competition in the F50 (our real "USP"), make that marking ability count.

[GVGjr]

Great suggestion Mofra. If I was an isolated footballer, especially if I was forward, I'd be working on goal kicking as part of my exercise regime.

The results will come if you do the work

[mjp]

Great suggestion Mofra. If I was an isolated footballer, especially if I was forward, I'd be working on goal kicking as part of my exercise regime.



If you were an isolated footballer you would be playing a lot of 2k. And completing a pretty rudimentary gym routine. And doing a bit of running. The results might come if you do the work but not too many of them think about things in that context. And they already think that they ARE good kicks at goal so why worry about practicing.

Good club culture gets players to do this stuff...bad culture MAKES them do it and they half-arse it and become resentful.

I don't mind the idea of establishing a CLEAR player mentoring system and having some true SME's (you pick the categories - obviously goal-kicking has been chosen as one) in place who are readily accessible...but if that is to be the focus and there is a 30% drop in the soft cap then something has to give. What??

I still think medical and recovery is the way to go and - in terms of player retention + attracting free agents, being known as 'the best' for medical and recovery would go a long way to getting players across the line. Everyone is about the 'UMMMMMMMMMM' these days - it is all about being mindful and 'balanced'. I would be really doubling down on this stuff and winding back on the S+C side of things.

Cryo chambers in...versa climbers out.

[Twodogs]

Sav Rocca

plus

Unlimited shots on goal (the sports scientists can GAGF when it comes to goal kicking).

Everything else can fit under our existing structures, albeit with fewer staff. My reasons are:

Exhibit A: Levi Casbault. If I said he's an excellent kick for goal, you'd laugh. But he is (now). Sav turned his accuracy around from below average to above average, late in his career, over the course of a single pre-season. It's an achievement I rate highly and for all the fancy approaches to footy, kicking the goals with the chances you have is still the best way to win most games of football.

Exhibit B: Ben Brown. He takes a truckload of set shots, yes even the "easy" ones 30m directly in front. North do not restrict his goal kicking practice when he reaches his "load limit" according to the sports scientists. You can call him weird-looking, one dimensional, etc - we're read all the criticisms, but the fact is he's kicked more goals than any other player in the competition over the past 3 years.

Goals are good, really good. If we're going to stack the side with more marking ability than any other side in the competition in the F50 (our real "USP"), make that marking ability count.


I've said it before and I will say it again. The conversion from a shocking kick to a reliable kick is a very simple thing to do-give me our worst kick for 15 minutes and I will change him around. It's all technique. Walk back, take a breath and run in a straight line as you kick. There are two other things (head over the ball when it hits your foot and DON"T LIFT YOUR *!*!*!*!ING HEAD.

In technique it's pretty similar to driving a golf ball off the tee and how many footballers don't play golf?

[GVGjr]

I've said it before and I will say it again. The conversion from a shocking kick to a reliable kick is a very simple thing to do-give me our worst kick for 15 minutes and I will change him around. It's all technique. Walk back, take a breath and run in a straight line as you kick. There are two other things (head over the ball when it hits your foot and DON"T LIFT YOUR *!*!*!*!ING HEAD.

In technique it's pretty similar to driving a golf ball off the tee and how many footballers don't play golf?

The ball drop is all too important as well but if your head is over the ball it should eliminate or reduce those errors

Have a look at the way Akermanis kicked the ball when on the run and with a set shot. The ball drop was very different but he was very effective with it

[Mofra]

The ball drop is all too important as well but if your head is over the ball it should eliminate or reduce those errors

Have a look at the way Akermanis kicked the ball when on the run and with a set shot. The ball drop was very different but he was very effective with it
Lockett had the best ball drop I'd seen when kicking for goal.

I've heard of senior and assistant coaches complaint that players were being stopped from goalkicking practice due to training loads!
Ben Brown has to kick 20 goals in a row after training before he leaves the track.

There are some occasions where actual football training needs to take precedence over numbers in a spreadsheet.

[bornadog]

The ball drop is all too important as well but if your head is over the ball it should eliminate or reduce those errors

Have a look at the way Akermanis kicked the ball when on the run and with a set shot. The ball drop was very different but he was very effective with it


I think generally current day footballers are a brilliant kick of the ball and far better than the past. Goal kicking hasn't improved, only because lots of shots at goal are taken when the player is fatigued.

Players these days are fitter, run faster and cover a lot more distance than the past. Look at some old footage of games and you will see the difference.

[Twodogs]

The ball drop is all too important as well but if your head is over the ball it should eliminate or reduce those errors

Have a look at the way Akermanis kicked the ball when on the run and with a set shot. The ball drop was very different but he was very effective with it

Yep I forgot to mention the most important bit! Ball drop is all important

[GVGjr]

Lockett had the best ball drop I'd seen when kicking for goal.

I've heard of senior and assistant coaches complaint that players were being stopped from goalkicking practice due to training loads!
Ben Brown has to kick 20 goals in a row after training before he leaves the track.

There are some occasions where actual football training needs to take precedence over numbers in a spreadsheet.

Perfect action wasn't it?

[Twodogs]

Lockett had the best ball drop I'd seen when kicking for goal.


Simon Beasley's was pretty good. I think that the Pieman was THE most accurate set shot I have seen. You look at the three times he kicked 12-they were all 12.3 or 12.4. If one of our current players had 16 scoring shots in a game you just know that the goal/behind ratio would be 8.7 or 10.5.

[Twodogs]

Jason Dunstall's was pretty good too.

[GVGjr]

Jason Dunstall's was pretty good too.

Seems to be a theme, successful players had the best techniques. If only others were allowed to copy them ;)

[Twodogs]

Seems to be a theme, successful players had the best techniques. If only others were allowed to copy them ;)

You know that film where the bloke leans out of the window and screams "I'm as mad as hell and I'm not putting up with it anymore..." :cool:

[soupman]

I think generally current day footballers are a brilliant kick of the ball and far better than the past. Goal kicking hasn't improved, only because lots of shots at goal are taken when the player is fatigued.

Players these days are fitter, run faster and cover a lot more distance than the past. Look at some old footage of games and you will see the difference.

I don't disagree about the fatigue but I'm not sure we do everything we can to offset it.

For example we still have numerous players with inconsistent set shot routines and awkward runups/ball drops. Having a consistent routine helps negate the likelihood of your effectiveness being reduced by fatigue.

[bornadog]

I don't disagree about the fatigue but I'm not sure we do everything we can to offset it.

For example we still have numerous players with inconsistent set shot routines and awkward runups/ball drops. Having a consistent routine helps negate the likelihood of your effectiveness being reduced by fatigue.

The Lockets, Beasleys, Dunstals hardly ever left the goal square and to them it was like a training run shooting for goal. If you go to training, players hardly ever miss their shots. The only pressure the old footballers had was in their head. Now you have fatigue and mental pressure combined.

BTW: I was talking footballers in general, and not just our club, but you could be right about technique with our players.

[Mofra]

I don't disagree about the fatigue but I'm not sure we do everything we can to offset it.

For example we still have numerous players with inconsistent set shot routines and awkward runups/ball drops. Having a consistent routine helps negate the likelihood of your effectiveness being reduced by fatigue.
Spot on.
Hence, with the wishlist prescribed in the OP, improving our goal kicking accuracy was at the top of my wishlist. It's arguably the one aspect of Bont's game that stops him being the competition's best.

Every club needs an 'edge' over the rest of the competition in one aspect of the game. Hawthorn's three-peat was on the back of a fleet of left footers who simply kicked the ball better than anyone else. We didn't have that, so we developed 'handball club' which caught everyone off guard for a season before it was shut down (the third man up rule - which we used more than any other club in the competition in 2016 - also had an impact).

What is our 'edge' this year? Next year? With Josh Bruce and Aaron Naughton it simply has to be marking power ahead of the ball, noting how hard Schache runs and Bailey Dale and Sam Lloyd can mark as well. I can't see where else we could be no 1.
If we improve our conversion from set shot, that marking should be a real asset.

[GVGjr]

I don't disagree about the fatigue but I'm not sure we do everything we can to offset it.

For example we still have numerous players with inconsistent set shot routines and awkward runups/ball drops. Having a consistent routine helps negate the likelihood of your effectiveness being reduced by fatigue.

It also doesn't explain the missed shots early in the games and early in the quarters
The goal kicking practice is often performed at the end of the training session to test the players with fatigue however, the sessions aren't treated as a seriously as they should and rarely do they have someone on the mark. We take that form and maybe even that attitude into games

Fatigue is a minor issue in the scheme of things.

When players as skillful as Bont miss 3 times to the same side in a dome it isn't just an issue with fatigue. He has a technique issue

[GVGjr]

I think generally current day footballers are a brilliant kick of the ball and far better than the past. Goal kicking hasn't improved, only because lots of shots at goal are taken when the player is fatigued.

Players these days are fitter, run faster and cover a lot more distance than the past. Look at some old footage of games and you will see the difference.

Most of the games better players are as fit as the era they play in demands. I just don't accept that missing as many set shots is inevitable as some seem to think for whatever reasons that are offered.

On top of that ground conditions are vastly better than they ever have been, Melbourne based players often get to play in a dome and yet we are missing shots early in games and early in quarters.

[Twodogs]

The Lockets, Beasleys, Dunstals hardly ever left the goal square and to them it was like a training run shooting for goal. If you go to training, players hardly ever miss their shots. The only pressure the old footballers had was in their head. Now you have fatigue and mental pressure combined.

BTW: I was talking footballers in general, and not just our club, but you could be right about technique with our players.

They mostly play inside under a roof whereas the players you mentioned played on outside arenas with balls that were used for the entire match. In wet weather that meant the balls got waterlogged and heavy and became almost impossible to kick in a straight line or over any distance.


The players you mentioned were accurate kicks at goal because they were taught to kick the ball with a proper technique not because they were stay at home forwards (which most of them weren't-they cleared out the forward line for a reason-Lockett is the only real lurk in the goal square forward you have mentioned) Beasley and Dunstall ran up the ground on long leads 30 or 40 metres up the ground.

[mjp]

They were good kicks at goal because it was important to them to be a good kick at goal. As with all things coaching, you can present the material but you can’t make them care...good coaches are created by a bunch of interested players.

[GVGjr]

They were good kicks at goal because it was important to them to be a good kick at goal. As with all things coaching, you can present the material but you can’t make them care...good coaches are created by a bunch of interested players.

From the limited number of training session I have seen in the last 2 years, our players are very enthusiastic about kicking goals from almost impossible angles but slightly less enthusiastic with set shots and getting into a good goal kicking routine
The likes of Lockett, Dunstall and Beasley focused on making just about every set shot count
I remember a player years ago who was reviewing his career saying he just wasn't a good enough footballer to be able to miss shots from 35 meters out.

[mjp]

The likes of Lockett, Dunstall and Beasley focused on making just about every set shot count
I remember a player years ago who was reviewing his career saying he just wasn't a good enough footballer to be able to miss shots from 35 meters out.

Dunstall did the commentary for the 89 grand final in the best 50 games thing and was very upset with some of his own efforts. I think it became more important to him as he became a more experienced difference between kicking 2.0 and 0.2 on the outcome of a game is staggering. 30m out? “Hit your free-throws man”. Easy misses have a massive impact on the player and his teammates.

[Twodogs]

Dunstall did the commentary for the 89 grand final in the best 50 games thing and was very upset with some of his own efforts. I think it became more important to him as he became a more experienced difference between kicking 2.0 and 0.2 on the outcome of a game is staggering. 30m out? “Hit your free-throws man”. Easy misses have a massive impact on the player and his teammates.

Watch our players and you can actually see the shoulders start to sag when we miss an easy shot. You can see them thinking "we worked so hard to get that shot and we pissed it up against the wall. What's the point?"

[Mofra]

Watch our players and you can actually see the shoulders start to sag when we miss an easy shot. You can see them thinking "we worked so hard to get that shot and we pissed it up against the wall. What's the point?"
I'd expect most AFL players would be the same.

Back in the day Matthew Lloyd would take a lot of shots from 35m out directly in front at training. More than anyone else in the comp at the time, he just knew the importance of nailing those shots.

If you compare that to our players, how many players would line up from that spot and you'd be confident it's going through? Dickson - it's his last year. Schache - fringe. Lloyd perhaps. Wallis and English yes. Strangely, I'd be confident in Cordy kicking it and JJ if the scores were close (he's a player that seems to thrive under scoreboard pressure).

There wouldn't be many others.

[bornadog]

...

The "SOFT CAP" on footy department spending is slashed by 1/3rd (down to $6million'ish)..and we have decisions to make. Assistant coaches, development coaches, massage therapists, yoga instructors, HP managers, video analysts...

We need to find "the one thing" to invest in that will:

- Provide us with a competitive advantage on game day.
- Provide us with a competitive advantage with regards attracting free agents.

All bets are off...we can do WHATEVER we want. Is our focus to be cranking up our footy department and doubling down on coaching mentors and 1-on-1 services, mental health services, physical recovery (cryo chambers, float tanks), creating a wellness/mindfulness centre with yoga, meditation etc, amping up the video to provide 3d modelling (and interactive vr systems for game sim)...the floor is yours...make a difference. The decks have been cleared due to the virus and everyone is starting again...and we don't want to be like everyone else...so our focus is...

The approximate spend in the footy department

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EWSKOMhUMAASOY1?format=png&name=small

Where would you cut down?