Bevo and our efforts

[GVGjr]

I know Bevo was one of the main reasons for our 2016 triumph and that must have earned him a significant level of credits with our supporter base and within the 4 walls of the club.

Since 2016 however, we have underachieved. Many supporters were happy to accept a 2017 gap year although it never sat well with me. Prior to the 2018 season we rid ourselves of the Jake Stringer distraction and we thought that would be sufficient to get us back on track and focused however, that never quite eventuated.
2019 saw a more competitive team on the field after we sorted out our selection dilemmas but one that was also eventually on the receiving end of a humiliating exit from the finals. Our effort that day was very poor.
Buoyed by the efforts during the 2019 season though, we recruited 2 bookend key position players when we finally acknowledged we were deficient in that area and 2020 had all the signs of being a positive season that would see us to be a significant player in this years finals. We were also going to use the failure in 2019 as a spur for the 2020 season

The media certainly agreed with our 2020 chances with many regarding us as a genuine top 4 chance. With that level of excitement though it also comes with a high level of expectation and we aren't measuring up to that at the moment.

While the challenges of Covid 19 is evident to all in the competition what is also evident is that we have turned in 3 sub-standard performances in a row and we have a now critical Friday night game against the team that stitched us up in last years finals. To say the spotlight is right on us now would be underestimating how important Friday nights game will be for us.

Bevo's persona in the media is one of being calm, calculated and a bit eccentric which is what you might expect from coaches but I really hope there is a vastly more impatient coach within the VUWO training facility. He needs to rally the team with a bit more vigour than preaching his calm and patient approach.

We all hope we are just a week away from a more positive performance but I'd like to hear how many more poor performances particularly from an effort perspective we can continue to accept?
We appear to have a problem with our focus or mindset and the results confirm that something isn't quite right. Lets hope Bevo can locate the problem and get it fixed.

I welcome your thoughts and some serious debate

[SonofScray]

I have had serious concerns for a long time, since a particularly odd speech at a Season Launch. 2017 I wrote off as a hangover & banged up bodies. 2018 I was filthy about and would have pulled the trigger then & there. Chris Grant changed my mind at an Inside the Kennel function. I regret listening to the Great Man now & actually have him in the gun too.

Here's a couple of things that really bug me:

1 Skills. Bevo used to be a big one for skills on both sides of the body. He never talks about it now & we certainly don't look like a side that focuses on it.

2 Tactics. He used to all about working to what he has available, playing to strengths, a horses a for courses approach. Players responded well to it post BMAC. Some talented players felt freed up to shine, others clarity in their function. I don't see the adjustments happening in the coaches box anymore, certainly not in game and definitely not between seasons like we did the summer of 15/16.

Rule changes have hindered his tactical influence. 3rd man up in particular he still hasn't adjusted to.

3 Personal presentation. He has at times looked disinterested. Disengaged. Occasionally exhausted and rarely the man who was running rings around people with metaphors and interesting reflections on culture. Honestly, I was concerned for his wellbeing at times late 2018 through R6 or so last year. He looks healthier now and has been on an even keel in some ways, which is a relief. It's not entirely appropriate to speculate too much on this front, but looked like a classic case of burn out to me.

4 Sunk cost effect. Aside from Naughton's emergence as a real weapon, we see him selecting & deploying players that feel like we are chasing losses. The ruck scenario. Is feeling like that. Trengove out of favour, English thrown to the wolves, assistant shuffle, Gardner selections. The game plan gets doubled down on.

I can't move past the idea he is cooked.

[Remi Moses]

The effort perspective is seriously worrying
Sometimes says something about the coach / player relationship
If this continues he’ll get the Bullet at seasons end

[GVGjr]

The effort perspective is seriously worrying
Sometimes says something about the coach / player relationship
If this continues he’ll get the Bullet at seasons end

With the lack of money in the game at the moment, I can't see him being sacked. To me it's not about replacing Bevo it's about finding out why a team with as much talent as we have is under performing and what can be done to fix that.

Just saw the 'Bevo Brief' and it's a coach clearly struggling for answers around the challenges of performance and effort.
If anyone was searching for answers, Bevo didn't provide them

[Mofra]

I worry the "sparkle" is gone.
We all compare the 2016 season to where we are now, but for me the better comparison is 2015.

We had as many questions marks about us now as we did then, but there was a strong feeling that 'we're all in this together'. That feeling is gone, we're scratching our heads instead of rubbing our hands together with excitement.

[Happy Days]

The sunk costs one is the most irritating one to me. The worst part about McCartney was his stubbornness that almost ruined Wood, JJ and a host of others by either limiting them to one position or placing a firm ceiling on what he thought they could be. Bevo is almost the polar opposite problem in the sense that certain guys will get seemingly limitless chances to prove themselves at multiple spots, resulting in others wasting away on the sidelines.

[The bulldog tragician]

I have been mulling over this exact issue. 2016 should have set us up for years of success given the age profile of our group and a very strong Footscray side at the time. Instead of just talking about the players lost from that side I'm interested in the why and what it says about the coach and his planning for our future.

We had two solid and young defensive pillars - Hamling and Fletcher. We let Hamling go, I can only assume in the premiership euphoria we took his request to go home with an abundance of good will and didn't fight hard enough to keep him on. The treatment of Fletcher has always baffled me, if we thought he was no good why did we retain him and never play him? I'd have rather his staid and solid defending last night.

We lost the party boy/larrikins. Biggs, Dahlhaus, Stringer. Not always pleased at their antics but every club has their share and could we have found a way to manage them and still get the best out of them? A noted hard-ass coach like Buckley manages, and still gets the best out of them on game day.

We lost Tom Boyd and Jordan Roughead. Wonderful young men.Both spoke of a lack of enjoyment at our club, which rings massive alarm bells for me. With the former I am still left wondering if something more could be done to manage his mental health while still keeping him in the game. Maybe that's unrealistic, but it saddens me to see such talent lost to us. Roughead is the most baffling of all. He's well and truly capable of good footy and such an impressive person. Where did that all go wrong?

Apart from the retirements of Morris, Picken and Smith, these other guys could still be playing with us, most of them still in their 20s and now knowing what was needed for premiership success.

Instead we have a hollowed-out group where selection doesn't to the outsider at least appear based on merit, where defeat is now accepted quite meekly, where we are no longer the innovators but the exposed in match day tactics. Some young players are ruthlessly dropped when to the outside world they deserve more chances, others are persisted with long after their merits are not apparent to that same outside world.

Another season of underachievement looms and I have to wonder if success came too early for Bevo and, thinking everything he touched turned to gold in 15 and 16, he has become locked in and stubborn. (I haven't even started on the perplexing ruck tactics which to be fair were perplexing in 15 and a lot of 16 as well). He achieved the most miraculous feat of coaching, he inspired and led a group to the greatest sense of self-belief and hunger for success I've ever seen, but now I don't even begin to understand the path he's on and where it is supposed to lead.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Bevo has never been a great tactical coach. He's been slaughtered in the coaches box more than any other coach I can remember.

What Bevo has been tremendous at is motivating players, managing people and aligning them in the same direction.

My concern is that he can't seem to pull the right strings to motivate this group anymore and this is then compounded by our inability to influence the game tactically. He's a genius at leaning on emotion, triggering responses - but the last 3 games that has been completely missing.

I said it years ago and it still rings true - Bevo's qualities are both a strength and weakness. With stubbornness and an unrelenting method he brought home a Premiership cup, but it's that same stubbornness which will see him lose his job eventually.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I am as concerned about this group as I have ever been about a bulldogs group. The last three efforts have been the WORST I have seen in a bulldogs jumper. Ok, there were some bleak years in the Rhode and BMac days, but at least then they were somewhat expected. We were rebuilding. We had bottomed out. But we’re 3 years after a premiership. Yes we’ve lost experience but the core is still there and should be improving.
We’ve severely gone backwards. And the cull at the end of 2017 was supposed to address cultural and work ethic issues. Well today we are seeing those players weren’t the issue. In fact it’s those players we sorely miss. Some grunt, some X factor, some desire to get their hands dirty. I’m not saying those players would address our current issues but I think it goes to question the decisions being made by the coaches and club. Because what they thought was the issue clearly isn’t the case.

We are in serious trouble. I don’t believe it’s a matter of give our all Friday night and show who we are. The last three weeks have shown exactly who we are. We have been well and truly OBLITERATED the last three weeks. And the selection, skills, game day tactics and player efforts all fall on the shoulders of the coaching staff.

[GVGjr]

Thanks to everyone who has contributed to discussions so far. This is what WOOF does best in exploring a topic in a very fact based manner without a lot of emotion. Some excellent and thought provoking suggestions have already been shared

[The Pie Man]

Obviously hard to judge from the outside, but that's what we do - starting to look like they need a new voice.

I look at the way Macrae goes about it.... I don't he cares right now. Is it a general attitude thing, or does he need a new voice to motivate him? Lipinski was good in patches, but seems to run without purpose or urgency at times, when he could potentially impact a contest with more intensity.

Is not playing our supposed best 22 getting to a few of them like it is us?

Dispiriting times - change has to come.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I have been mulling over this exact issue. 2016 should have set us up for years of success given the age profile of our group and a very strong Footscray side at the time. Instead of just talking about the players lost from that side I'm interested in the why and what it says about the coach and his planning for our future.

We had two solid and young defensive pillars - Hamling and Fletcher. We let Hamling go, I can only assume in the premiership euphoria we took his request to go home with an abundance of good will and didn't fight hard enough to keep him on. The treatment of Fletcher has always baffled me, if we thought he was no good why did we retain him and never play him? I'd have rather his staid and solid defending last night.

We lost the party boy/larrikins. Biggs, Dahlhaus, Stringer. Not always pleased at their antics but every club has their share and could we have found a way to manage them and still get the best out of them? A noted hard-ass coach like Buckley manages, and still gets the best out of them on game day.

We lost Tom Boyd and Jordan Roughead. Wonderful young men.Both spoke of a lack of enjoyment at our club, which rings massive alarm bells for me. With the former I am still left wondering if something more could be done to manage his mental health while still keeping him in the game. Maybe that's unrealistic, but it saddens me to see such talent lost to us. Roughead is the most baffling of all. He's well and truly capable of good footy and such an impressive person. Where did that all go wrong?

Apart from the retirements of Morris, Picken and Smith, these other guys could still be playing with us, most of them still in their 20s and now knowing what was needed for premiership success.

Instead we have a hollowed-out group where selection doesn't to the outsider at least appear based on merit, where defeat is now accepted quite meekly, where we are no longer the innovators but the exposed in match day tactics. Some young players are ruthlessly dropped when to the outside world they deserve more chances, others are persisted with long after their merits are not apparent to that same outside world.

Another season of underachievement looms and I have to wonder if success came too early for Bevo and, thinking everything he touched turned to gold in 15 and 16, he has become locked in and stubborn. (I haven't even started on the perplexing ruck tactics which to be fair were perplexing in 15 and a lot of 16 as well). He achieved the most miraculous feat of coaching, he inspired and led a group to the greatest sense of self-belief and hunger for success I've ever seen, but now I don't even begin to understand the path he's on and where it is supposed to lead.
For me, the letting go of Stringer, Dal, Roughead and Hamling brings massive alarm bells. Ok, they weren’t performing post premiership at our club. And we like to convince ourselves that they continue to underperform at other clubs. But fact is they’re all performing at their respective clubs. What does that say about ours?

All us armchair experts have been for years calling for ruck changes, smarter selections and coaching changes. None of which have occurred and yet we haven’t been proven to be wrong. Surely 4 years of the same thing is enough to warrant change

EDIT: to add, I’m also not suggesting Bevo be sacked. I think a thorough review of the football department is needed ala Geelong with Mark Thompson. Bevo has at least proved he’s capable of doing great things and deserves that review. We all know the list is capable of a lot more.

[Ozza]

I'm really concerned about what I see as a serious misuse of the talent on the list.

We went through this for the first half of last year, some didn't want to admit it at the time, but we gave away multiple games at the selection table in the first half of last year - and everyone here knows that we started significantly on the back foot this weekend.

How are you feeling if you are Jackson Trengove, Toby McLean, Lewis Young, Rhylee West right now - when others seem to have inexplicably jumped the queue? And what point do some these players becoming disengaged by the perplexing selection. And yes, I expect that some will say "well Gardner, Gowers etc etc are the least of our worries when our good players are not winning their positions etc etc" - but we win by our team approach and the reality is that the weak links in the chain are absolutely killing us and making it so much harder for our top players.

Last year, once we got selection right, the team gelled and played really good footy. Its a mess right now.

As for the Bevo-motivation factor....hard to know unless you're inside - but motivation only gets you so far, and they've been hearing the same voice for a while. So it has to be putting together a game style and having players capable of executing it - that will get us back to where we should be with a list this talented.

[The bulldog tragician]

For the record, also not suggesting Bevo sacking. I'm appreciating the tone of this thread which is about thoughtfully questioning what has gone wrong and the coach's role in it. If anything, because we know he has many gifts and our eternal gratitude for 2016, it is all the harder to ask these questions.

[Danjul]

The Dogs are playing exactly as one would expect when managed by a psychologist who has never seen a game of AFL footy.

All the inputs are based on an office environment where everyone is expected to do exactly the same thing. No originality, no consideration of individual talent and weakness. All bonding and ‘feel good’ exhortations.

The fact of the matter is the team is running out on the field with the intention of doing the wrong thing.

How do we know that? Because they’ve been doing it since mid 2017.

So how does a game play out?

Smashed in the ruck, midfielders salvage the ball - not set up play , handball/kick under pressure, poor delivery, turnover inside 50, everyone caught out of position, sliced up through the middle to half back, undermanned backline monstered, murdered on the scoreboard.

Have a pep talk about glass half full.

Repeat next week.

Anyone who has seen the last 3 years knows the glass is broken.

[Grantysghost]

I really don't have the answers here I'm really just brain dumping some of my longer standing concerns. Great discussion point.

We clearly now are seen as a side that can be easily intimidated which really started with the Swans at the SCG back in 2017 and has apparently not been rectified. This was on the back of media reports of a rift between JJ and Stringer and the Swans picked at the scab. Every other side is using this infuriating tactic now, watch GWS and North in the coming weeks and we have had our chance to stand up to it. We not only haven't, we just don't seem to have the personality to do so. Those of us that have played footy at any senior level know that certain guys in the side make you walk taller, feel braver, get in the face of the opponent psychologically and from outside looking in I can see there's no one currently playing apart from maybe Crozier reluctantly, Wallis and Smith who will consistently fly the flag for their team mates.

So does Bevo have an issue managing certain personality types? Is our team full of nice guys (no d-heads) maybe by design and could this be an issue when a little overt aggression would be useful. I see a guy like Devon Smith who yes, appears to be a d-head from the outside, play with a balance of in your face aggression, skill and competitiveness and think geez we really don't have that in our side. Zuharr from North springs to mind.
I've heard directly from a current player that Bevo "likes to play the younger guys" which I'm not sure I buy into, but is certainly food for thought considering we again were the second youngest side behind Gold Coast.

I might just be crazy, but Bevo seems to have a blind spot when it comes to the ruck. I fear English is suffering irreparable damage being thrown into contests against guys like Grundy. The first time we can cop it, the subsequent times you have to ask questions. He looks so down on confidence he was even dropping marks yesterday which is a strong suit of his. I get the experience argument but at the moment I believe we are doing more harm than good. Our plan B being Schache,Bruce, Dunkley, or Bont (rarely but in final) over and over again leaves me scratching my head as to how in depth our ruck game plan is. The best sides have a consistent, reliable ruck setup. They don't have to be superstars (Soldo, Nankervis, Mcinernay). Lets just pick the best team based on position and not be going with low percentage selection plays in real games.

Regarding effort it's really a mystery. The will is there, we've seen it late last year but for some reason it dissipates as the game turns against us. The skills and defensive structure go out the window as well, and it's got to be in their heads. Lloyd yesterday was a prime example he's a skillful player who butchered everything. I hate the term downhill skiers but there I said it.
Could it tie into personnel? We sometimes look meek, we have players who are naturally mild mannered as our more experienced leaders (JJ, Macrae for eg.) and when the chips are down there's basically silence on the field. The lack of crowd has exposed this to me, just how quiet we are. Yesterday was the perfect example, started well on the back of internal process and want for redemption, then as soon as challenged we went into our shells, almost afraid to make a mistake. Saints guys were loud, confident, cheering each other on boisterously. A stark example is Smith. He seems to have a fearless personality (you have to to rock that mullet!) and plays accordingly. No matter the game situation he's plowing in and wanting to beat his opponent. Never intimidated. Short term I think we need to address the balance immediately at selection, long term I don't know how you change this it's got to be recruitment I guess.

This is way too long now. I don't know how to bring this together into a coherent why but some of my ideas there for discussion.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I'm really concerned about what I see as a serious misuse of the talent on the list.

We went through this for the first half of last year, some didn't want to admit it at the time, but we gave away multiple games at the selection table in the first half of last year - and everyone here knows that we started significantly on the back foot this weekend.

How are you feeling if you are Jackson Trengove, Toby McLean, Lewis Young, Rhylee West right now - when others seem to have inexplicably jumped the queue? And what point do some these players becoming disengaged by the perplexing selection. And yes, I expect that some will say "well Gardner, Gowers etc etc are the least of our worries when our good players are not winning their positions etc etc" - but we win by our team approach and the reality is that the weak links in the chain are absolutely killing us and making it so much harder for our top players.

Last year, once we got selection right, the team gelled and played really good footy. Its a mess right now.

As for the Bevo-motivation factor....hard to know unless you're inside - but motivation only gets you so far, and they've been hearing the same voice for a while. So it has to be putting together a game style and having players capable of executing it - that will get us back to where we should be with a list this talented.

In some ways, the second half of last year might have been a bad thing to happen as it’s covered up larger issues. Or, were there changes made that fixed issues? I wasn’t in the country last year so I wasn’t keeping up to date with footy so I’m not sure why the two polar opposite halves last year. Did something change? Because looking at results we were looking really good. Why did we play 10 weeks of fantastic footy in the midst of 2.5 years and 2 weeks of fairly atrocious footy???

[bornadog]

I think as Bulldog supporters we always over rate our players. We think we are world beaters and have the best A graders in the AFL. I have said this over the past few years but always the coach and the MC is blamed for our poor performances. The players have to take some responsibility and stand up.

The game against the Saints was probably the best we have played in the past three losses. Games against GWS and Collingwood we were smashed in the inside 40s, CP, stoppages, all the key stats, yet against the Saints we were on par with them. Why did we lose? The Saints used their opportunities better than we did and kicked goals, and we butchered the ball (see clangers stat).

Yes there are some selections as outsiders we are puzzled with, but the 22 on the ground, must take some responsibility and use the ball better and don't turn it over so easily.

If the players selected can't take responsibility for their performance, then we need to continually turn over the players and get the hungry ones in that will play to the game plan and not stuff up.

[1eyedog]

I'm worried that the 2016 flag has given him too many credits internally. PG loves him, and they have an excellent working relationship, so I hope the Bevo-mantra of calm and collected and frankly, sometimes nonchalant approach, doesn't extend to how Turtle and PG view Bevo's performances, or a potential review at the end of the year.

This is not entirely Bevo's fault and agree he won't be sacked before the end of the year (and he shouldn't be), but he needs to find a way to re-energise the playing group and inject some self-belief because if it's a bottom 4 result this year he will be under extreme pressure.

[azabob]

When Luke Beveridge first came on board in 2015 majority have questioned match committee decisions. Clearly 2015 and 2016 every decision worked and came off - hense the throw away line "In Bevo we trust" each Thursday night.

Our team lacks a mental and physical hardness and is very quick to go into their shells. We don't have someone capable of standing up physically to turn the tide.

Who has replaced Matt Boyd, Dale Morris, Clay Smith, Tom Liberatore and Liam Picken?

Beveridge language is also extremely concerning. 2015/16 his mantra was one solider out another in. No excuses given, no excuses accepted, no excuses asked for.

Since 2017 excuses aplenty. It is all about patience an learning, we need to take a step backwards as this team evolves and changes. Even last night he was referencing the teams age as we develop as we find our way.

Our list is too similar across the board, coupled with misfits who have struggled to get onto a senior list is a recipe for what is happening now. At least the misfits in Stringer, Dahl, Biggs, Liberatore and co could actually play football.

Where to from here? Who knows as it is clear Beveridge won't be playing McLean, Liberatore or Trengrove anytime soon.

[bornadog]

Where to from here? Who knows as it is clear Beveridge won't be playing McLean, Liberatore or Trengrove anytime soon.

I think Libba will be right to go this week (don't forget he has had dodgy knees). Mclean has been poor for more than a year. Trengove, well other than some clangers in kicking the ball straight to the opposition a few times (Geelong match last year, woeful kick to Hawkins in a close game), I would like to see him in.

[comrade]

Who has replaced Matt Boyd, Dale Morris, Clay Smith, Tom Liberatore and Liam Picken?



Bailey Dale, Sam Lloyd, Ryan Gardner & Billy Gowers.

[bornadog]

Bailey Dale, Sam Lloyd, Ryan Gardner & Billy Gowers.

Well maybe that tells us about our recruiting. Not so good after all.

[Danjul]

I think Libba will be right to go this week (don't forget he has had dodgy knees). Mclean has been poor for more than a year. Trengove, well other than some clangers in kicking the ball straight to the opposition a few times (Geelong match last year, woeful kick to Hawkins in a close game), I would like to see him in.
How many times did we see this happen yesterday?
A lot! Even the Bont.

Trengove has not done it often, that is why it is memorable.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Im concerned that our group isn't professional enough, and lacks a hard edge in the way we go about it

I don't think we've helped with our selections or list management

I give Bevo some rope on selections but we are clearly over-exposed in the ruck and its English's development or almost nothing else - Sweet is the only other ruck option on the list - and this in my view is lunacy

And then there is the backline - we almost didn't play a key defender on the weekend either - Would Keath not be better playing off a key defender - we seem to have a backline made up of third talls, apart from Lewis Young if he can take a big step - but at this stage Wood, Cordy, Crozier, LachYoung and possible even Keath are better as third talls, or playing off one real key defender

Maybe the short term step is to put Naughton back and get him back in form and fitness that way - but its been a pretty horrible last 3 games and we don't seem able to dig in when the game isn't on our terms and just get back into it. Sydney did a good job of that on the weekend and normally adjust superbly in games - you never get away with dominating Sydney for four quarters, but we are too meek at the minute.

[1eyedog]

I'm really concerned about what I see as a serious misuse of the talent on the list.

We went through this for the first half of last year, some didn't want to admit it at the time, but we gave away multiple games at the selection table in the first half of last year - and everyone here knows that we started significantly on the back foot this weekend.

How are you feeling if you are Jackson Trengove, Toby McLean, Lewis Young, Rhylee West right now - when others seem to have inexplicably jumped the queue? And what point do some these players becoming disengaged by the perplexing selection. And yes, I expect that some will say "well Gardner, Gowers etc etc are the least of our worries when our good players are not winning their positions etc etc" - but we win by our team approach and the reality is that the weak links in the chain are absolutely killing us and making it so much harder for our top players.

Last year, once we got selection right, the team gelled and played really good footy. Its a mess right now.

As for the Bevo-motivation factor....hard to know unless you're inside - but motivation only gets you so far, and they've been hearing the same voice for a while. So it has to be putting together a game style and having players capable of executing it - that will get us back to where we should be with a list this talented.

I agree. I remember Brereton saying many years ago (2008-2010) that St.Kilda had the most talent in their squad, but they couldn't win a flag because their bottom 6 were the worst out of all finals aspirants.

[bornadog]

I agree. I remember Brereton saying many years ago (2008-2010) that St.Kilda had the most talent in their squad, but they couldn't win a flag because their bottom 6 were the worst out of all finals aspirants.

Hit the nail on the head 1eye, our bottom six are woeful.

[comrade]

Well maybe that tells us about our recruiting. Not so good after all.

3 of the 4 are rookies that Bevo has a big say in selecting.

[Danjul]

Well maybe that tells us about our recruiting. Not so good after all.

I might be wrong but weren’t 2 of them our leading goal kickers?
And another kicked about 20 goals in 5 games when able to play his natural game.

“Bailey Dale, Sam Lloyd, Ryan Gardner & Billy Gowers”

[soupman]

Purely on Beveridge I think his greatest strength is his ability to bottle lightning. 2015-16 demonstrated that he is able to take a decent list and through team unity, belief and a custom made gameplan he can make them something great.

Part of his best tools for doing this involve alternative tactics and uses of players, giving fringe players important roles and really harnessing a narrative for the team. This is all good but I'm not sure it works long term. Pretty soon you run out of players on your list you can reinvigorate through position changes, your alternative tactics get figured out and once the narrative has run it's course it's difficult to begin a new one. This has definitely played out with our side.

Honestly in hindsight if Beveridge had a philosophy of moving clubs every time he won a Premiership he'd probably have a much better record. If he had've left us at the end of 2016 or even 2017 and joined a club on the fringe like Freo or Port or even Melbourne I actually think he would've done really well. He could take a list with some good top end talent, a bunch of players at the crossroads and a playing group lacking in self belief and really get the best out of them for a 2-3 year period. I know soccer has the concept of "Promotion managers" who have repetitively taken teams in the second tier and gotten them promoted but have been unable to hold positions in the Premier League for a length of time, likewise with managers that often get picked up for about 6 months to save sides from relegation. I think Beveridge could build a decent reputation of "give him a 3 year contract and a not terrible side and he will give you a real chance at a flag" but I'm not sure I would be renewing him after the 3rd year.

[Ozza]

Hit the nail on the head 1eye, our bottom six are woeful.
Not trying to pick an argument BAD, but you are defending Bevo and selection - but you also agree the bottom 6 are woeful.

Any chance we can pick a better bottom 6!! (ie. a 6 that have demonstrated they can play at the level). We played 6 premiership players yesterday (5 from ours + Suckling). We have 13 on the list (acknowledging that 2 are injured).

[The bulldog tragician]

I think as Bulldog supporters we always over rate our players. We think we are world beaters and have the best A graders in the AFL. I have said this over the past few years but always the coach and the MC is blamed for our poor performances. The players have to take some responsibility and stand up.

The game against the Saints was probably the best we have played in the past three losses. Games against GWS and Collingwood we were smashed in the inside 40s, CP, stoppages, all the key stats, yet against the Saints we were on par with them. Why did we lose? The Saints used their opportunities better than we did and kicked goals, and we butchered the ball (see clangers stat).

Yes there are some selections as outsiders we are puzzled with, but the 22 on the ground, must take some responsibility and use the ball better and don't turn it over so easily.

If the players selected can't take responsibility for their performance, then we need to continually turn over the players and get the hungry ones in that will play to the game plan and not stuff up.

It's not letting the players off the hook for their performances at all BAD, I agree with you there, but I think this thread is a separate topic .. of how the coaching staff are performing in getting their best out of their players, and who they are selecting..or not selecting..and why.

[Danjul]

What we saw yesterday can’t be pinned on 6 players. It goes much deeper.

Of the six players selected on the backline only one had more kicks than handballs. You don’t get much drive that way.

on the forward line our big import to kick goals only kicked the ball 3 times. Dale, whose only reason for being in the team is to kick goals, only kicked the ball 4 times.

in the middle Dunkley, Macrae and Lipinski had a total of 45 handballs. But they only kicked the ball 20 times.

Smith held the ball long enough to run into space and kick forward a few times, but only one third of his possessions were kicks.

overall, 60% of the team’s disposals were handball. 60% of the winning team’s disposals were kicks.

The Dogs looked ok in Q1. Then they stopped kicking. Then everyone was drawn out of position to handball distance making it easy for the opposition to defend play and rebound. Happened frequently over the last 3 years. Always the same result.

The team has no collective awareness of winning tactics , partly because selection displays no awareness of a winning structure, and game management shows no evidence of guidance .

[bornadog]

It's not letting the players off the hook for their performances at all BAD, I agree with you there, but I think this thread is a separate topic .. of how the coaching staff are performing in getting their best out of their players, and who they are selecting..or not selecting..and why.

I don't have a clue how the coaching staff are performing, I would only be speculating.

My only comments are around selection and how the players performed. Players have all sorts of reasons why they are not selected. I know last year Williams was not selected in the first half due to off field issues, yet the MC is blamed because we know no better.

That is why my comments are around the players.

[Mofra]

The Dogs looked ok in Q1. Then they stopped kicking.
So the real question is - why did they stop kicking?
Did our forwards work hard enough to present? I know Naughton does (all the time) but did he have any support? Bruce stayed close to goal a fair bit which may be an instruction, so who else? Were Lloyd/Dale presenting? If that is the case it could explain some hesitancy to kick.

It's hard to see on the TV but half forwards who are average are dime a dozen, those who do it well are like gold because you have to simultaneously play as a midfielder and a 'general' forward. There aren't many good ones and apart from Lloyd last year it seems to be a consistent issue.

TBH I'm at the stage where Bont needs to spend more than 2 minutes a game forward - he will outmark every single tagger in the game, and Smith is an able burst mid to accompany Dunkley and Macrae who can go in.

[1eyedog]

Purely on Beveridge I think his greatest strength is his ability to bottle lightning. 2015-16 demonstrated that he is able to take a decent list and through team unity, belief and a custom made gameplan he can make them something great.

Part of his best tools for doing this involve alternative tactics and uses of players, giving fringe players important roles and really harnessing a narrative for the team. This is all good but I'm not sure it works long term. Pretty soon you run out of players on your list you can reinvigorate through position changes, your alternative tactics get figured out and once the narrative has run it's course it's difficult to begin a new one. This has definitely played out with our side.

Honestly in hindsight if Beveridge had a philosophy of moving clubs every time he won a Premiership he'd probably have a much better record. If he had've left us at the end of 2016 or even 2017 and joined a club on the fringe like Freo or Port or even Melbourne I actually think he would've done really well. He could take a list with some good top end talent, a bunch of players at the crossroads and a playing group lacking in self belief and really get the best out of them for a 2-3 year period. I know soccer has the concept of "Promotion managers" who have repetitively taken teams in the second tier and gotten them promoted but have been unable to hold positions in the Premier League for a length of time, likewise with managers that often get picked up for about 6 months to save sides from relegation. I think Beveridge could build a decent reputation of "give him a 3 year contract and a not terrible side and he will give you a real chance at a flag" but I'm not sure I would be renewing him after the 3rd year.

This is an insightful post, thanks. How would you explain his ability to get us going in the second half of last year after two and half years of mediocrity?

[bornadog]

Not trying to pick an argument BAD, but you are defending Bevo and selection - but you also agree the bottom 6 are woeful.

Any chance we can pick a better bottom 6!! (ie. a 6 that have demonstrated they can play at the level). We played 6 premiership players yesterday (5 from ours + Suckling). We have 13 on the list (acknowledging that 2 are injured).

I didn't defend selection. I am still perplexed why Gardner, Gowers are in for starters, and why isn't Trengove playing.

Sometimes you just don't have the players and can only pick from what you have and they may be the best of a bad bunch, but still not a good bottom 6.

However, what would improve the bottom 6 is, 6 of - Hunter, Libba, Wood, Duryea, Cordy, Schache, Trengove, Mclean, Dickson, Lew Young who are all capable at senior level.

[Grantysghost]

I didn't defend selection. I am still perplexed why Gardner, Gowers are in for starters, and why isn't Trengove playing.

Sometimes you just don't have the players and can only pick from what you have and they may be the best of a bad bunch, but still not a good bottom 6.

However, what would improve the bottom 6 is, 6 of - Hunter, Libba, Wood, Duryea, Cordy, Schache, Trengove, Mclean, Dickson, Lew Young who are all capable at senior level.

Yesterday it felt like we were reacting to the opposition with selection rather than having a strong brand of our own, that we stick with and consistently refer to.

[EasternWest]

This is a great thread.

[Ozza]

Yesterday it felt like we were reacting to the opposition with selection rather than having a strong brand of our own, that we stick with and consistently refer to.

Interesting post. Reminds me how we used to be always looking short in defence, but it was seen as important that we stuck to that for our overall brand, so we consistently stuck to that short running defence ethos. At least then, even if we didn't agree with selection - we could see the outline of a plan.

[soupman]

This is an insightful post, thanks. How would you explain his ability to get us going in the second half of last year after two and half years of mediocrity?

Broken clock and all that?

I do think he is a very capable coach and don't mean to say he is a complete write off outside of the 3 year period i spoke about, but the run last year wasn't even that good tbh (we lost to Saints and Brisbane, and beat Adelaide, half of GWS, Essendon, Freo, Melbourne, Geelong and Port) and two key contributions to our success in that period were a settled lineup and conventional teams, two things that Beveridge has proven aren't really his thing.

I think he would be a hugely frustrating coach to play at after the initial honeymoon period. He would start out feeling like a breath of fresh air, with his faith in everyone and ability to bind a group. But 3+ years in and his persistence with some over others, experiments with team structure and inability to receive criticism could start to wear thin.

[GVGjr]

Just on Bevo's pressers and his 'Bevo Brief' message today.
Do they do anything to inspire some confidence for supporters and dare I say the playing group that we have things in hand or does it come across as a coach struggling to pinpoint what the problem is?

Once again, this isn't a go at Bevo and I get and accept that his style is a bit different to most but it's not instilling in me the thought we are closer to a fix.

[Grantysghost]

Interesting post. Reminds me how we used to be always looking short in defence, but it was seen as important that we stuck to that for our overall brand, so we consistently stuck to that short running defence ethos. At least then, even if we didn't agree with selection - we could see the outline of a plan.

I guess I think of the bench mark in the Tigers and wonder whether they would alter their team setup too dramatically based on the opponent or stick with their brand. Not to say we threw out the rule book but I guess giving this more thought i wonder what our brand is. Speed ? Skill ?

[Grantysghost]

Just on Bevo's pressers and his 'Bevo Brief' message today.
Do they do anything to inspire some confidence for supporters and dare I say the playing group that we have things in hand or does it come across as a coach struggling to pinpoint what the problem is?

Once again, this isn't a go at Bevo and I get and accept that his style is a bit different to most but it's not instilling in me the thought we are closer to a fix.

We've spoken about assistants before, do we lack a fresh voice? I get covid puts pay to that for the short term but watching Essendon v the Swans I could clearly see Caracella's influence on their game style they really setup well behind the play.

[Vred]

Personally, I am actually up for Bevo getting sacked at this point, I was at that stage in 2018, I was at that stage last year and minus our run of slightly good games I'm still of that mindset.

I saw it mentioned on Facebook that Bevo doesn't just need to inspire the team but the fans as well that he can deliver. If you watch the end-game presser last night the way his speaking, it's clear that even he doesn't have the answers, specially with cocked up lines like ''Libba hasn't played a game of footy in awhile so we won't pick him'' - Yet Jong is literally in that same boat? It is clear from someone looking in that their is a problem within the group, and I do think it's Bevo at this point, the way he speaks these days says it all to me, he does not come across as confident, and always seems to be searching for an answer.

Is there something deeply wrong with our playing group, a lack of heart, faith, courage, or drive? I don't know, but it shows in their playing and it's truly depressing to watch the people who will fly the flag for us (Bailey Smith) seem to have no backup. If things keep going the way they are, we WILL lose our better players to other clubs because of the bad culture within ours. We should of never have lost Roughead, who for all regards, was a one-club man who never wanted to leave but was quietly pushed out the door.

Match selection is another thing that completely baffles me, yes, McCartney was a little too ridged but Bevo is the other way around, and seems to be picking based on favorites and not what we need. Players should know that if they don't play upto standard they WILL get dropped down to the twos, yet we seem to drop the wrong people and continue to press with players who shouldn't be their to begin with.

If Gardner and Gowers are in the team next week It will confirm for me my worst fears, that there is something deeply wrong with the culture and leadership down at the Bulldogs and it needs to be removed, quickly. Neither of those two players are anywhere near AFL level, let alone the other ones who are questionable at best.

I'm worried for my club, that's for sure.

[GVGjr]

We've spoken about assistants before, do we lack a fresh voice? I get covid puts pay to that for the short term but watching Essendon v the Swans I could clearly see Caracella's influence on their game style they really setup well behind the play.

In an ideal scenario we need a contrast to Bevo's style much like a Brett Montgomery might offer

[ReLoad]

its such an interesting topic.

Bevo is a different cat, always has been, and at times such a different cat that other different cats thought "gee he's really different"

in saying that, what I feel at the minute is that the club has gone from "comrades in arms" in 2016 to "A workplace" there's no passion, no sticking up for each other, just a whole bunch of people going about their jobs quite un-remarkably.

I don't have an issue with trying out players like Gardener and Gowers. who knows you may find another Matty Boyd, however, you can only give them so much of a chance, and clearly that chance has expired. You need to cut your losses, accept the sunk cost as a write off and move forward.

Ive got no doubt we need a change in leadership, but to me, its not Bevo, its the assistant coaching brigade, Bevo is a great leader of people, but that doesn't make a brilliant coach, that is where he needs some help.

Right now, we are the most "non-bulldog" we've been since Rhode. That has to change. We have a great list, we really do. lets not waste it.

[bornadog]

We've spoken about assistants before, do we lack a fresh voice? I get covid puts pay to that for the short term but watching Essendon v the Swans I could clearly see Caracella's influence on their game style they really setup well behind the play.

Probably off topic, but who is coaching Essendon - serious question as its not Worsfold

[Grantysghost]

Probably off topic, but who is coaching Essendon - serious question as its not Worsfold

Looked like Rutten and Caracella.

[azabob]

Just on Bevo's pressers and his 'Bevo Brief' message today.
Do they do anything to inspire some confidence for supporters and dare I say the playing group that we have things in hand or does it come across as a coach struggling to pinpoint what the problem is?

Once again, this isn't a go at Bevo and I get and accept that his style is a bit different to most but it's not instilling in me the thought we are closer to a fix.

It's not inspiring me with confidence.

I referenced earlier in this thread the type of language he used in 2015 and 2016 is a total 180 to now.

He seemed to spend a bit of time in the coaches box straight after the final siren, quiet perplexed and trying to process what the heck just happened out there.

The scary thing for me is, we have had a whole summer and then a further 8 odd weeks to figure this all out.

We are no closer to an answer.

[azabob]

In an ideal scenario we need a contrast to Bevo's style much like a Brett Montgomery might offer

Unfortunately it is what is needed, and it has been needed for a few years...

[The Bulldogs Bite]

It's not inspiring me with confidence.

I referenced earlier in this thread the type of language he used in 2015 and 2016 is a total 180 to now.

He seemed to spend a bit of time in the coaches box straight after the final siren, quiet perplexed and trying to process what the heck just happened out there.

The scary thing for me is, we have had a whole summer and then a further 8 odd weeks to figure this all out.

We are no closer to an answer.

Agree with this. He looks devoid of a solution.

What he needs to do is get back to fundamentals; what does a good side look like? What is typically proven? Philosophies such as having a big key defender (Trengove) supported by agile second/third talls (Keath, either Young/Wood etc), adequate ruck support and forward pressure (McLean, Cav, West and likely Weightman all offer something more in this space than the trio of Lloyd/Dale/Gowers).

If you continue to try to be the smartest guy in the room, you'll continue to fail.

[bornadog]

Agree with this. He looks devoid of a solution.

What he needs to do is get back to fundamentals; what does a good side look like? What is typically proven? Philosophies such as having a big key defender (Trengove) supported by agile second/third talls (Keath, either Young/Wood etc), adequate ruck support and forward pressure (McLean, Cav, West and likely Weightman all offer something more in this space than the trio of Lloyd/Dale/Gowers).

If you continue to try to be the smartest guy in the room, you'll continue to fail.

Whilst I agree, Cav West and Weightman have played 1, 3 and zero games. I guess we can give them a go and see how it works out. Can't do any worse than the current.

Total tackles by Lloyd/Dale/Gowers was 3,1,1 so for starters the young brigade can beat this.

[Murphy'sLore]

Can I just say, this thread and the Game Day thread together sum up what is most valuable about WOOF: one the one hand, pure heated passion and raw emotion; on the other, mostly calm, thoughtful and genuinely insightful reflections on our situation and possible solutions.

God, I hope Bevo is reading this! And really thinking about where we might go from here.

[Mofra]

In an ideal scenario we need a contrast to Bevo's style much like a Brett Montgomery might offer
I know a guy.

His name is Matthew, an assistant coach at Collingwood. Was rookied from Frankston seconds, scraped together a pretty decent career, then re-invented himself as a defender to extend that career by a few years. Nose like a boxer. I think he fits our requirements. Knows a bit about midfield craft and defensive structures.

[mjp]

Since 2016 however, we have underachieved.

Have we though? Are we actually that talented?

There is regular "talk" about the talent on our list...but please, can someone tell me outside of Bont and maybe Naughton who would cause the opposition any concerns at match committee? JJ I guess...but the answer to that puzzle is a simple one - "Play someone on him". Who else? Macrae is a good player, Dunks is a good player - neither strike fear into the heart. Ditto Hunter. Crozier is a good player - but a defender who plays ON someone so how 'scarey' is that?? Who else?

There was a heap of talk at the end of last year about how our recruiting was 'on point' and would send us up the ladder...I didn't see it then (I like both Bruce and Keath but still don't understand why they were important given the recent selections of Schache and Le Young respectively) and - further to that, didn't really see either as adding to our 'A-grade' talent.

2016? Murphy and Suckling MISSED THAT TEAM due to injury. Jong the same. Our back line included a couple of guys who are genuine GREATS of our club in Matty Boyd and Morris. Great players, great competitors and GREAT leaders. We talk a lot about the Eade sides and how they "fell short" - personally I think both the 2008 and 2009 teams were better, more consistent teams than 2016. They didn't win - but they also ran into a pretty amazing Saints team that nearly won the whole thing.

Bevo is fine. He seems like a good coach. I am pretty bummed right now because we are leaking transition goals again (just like this time last year) but I don't really think he is working with quite the same level of playing group as a lot of other people do. Am I surprised the Saints recruiting led to the result yesterday? Sure. But Brad Hill is a really (really) good player and - Bont aside, as good as anyone on our side. Zac Jones was terrific - hard running, committed...I loved his game. I guess Bailey Smith put forth a similar level of effort but not too many others. They are two genuinely positive inclusions for them...how did our inclusions go?

I don't know. I kind of sympathise with the coaches a little because it is so hard when you have to coach the 'game' and also coach 'the effort'. We want Bevo to be better tactically but at the same time want him bringing the passion and motivation? At what point does he focus on the game style and process and the players look after the effort stuff themselves? What is holding the players back? Talking to other coaches, they barely speak to their players at all on game day...and effort is self driven. Watching Bevo try to urge a response out of the players at half-time via the telecast? I just thought that was sad...why is he leading this? He should be providing the pathway - THEY should bring the energy to walk along it.

I just think - and have for a while - that we have a group of players who have basically achieved nothing however somehow all of them have assigned themselves a portion of the 2016 premiership.

[comrade]

Can I just say, this thread and the Game Day thread together sum up what is most valuable about WOOF: one the one hand, pure heated passion and raw emotion; on the other, mostly calm, thoughtful and genuinely insightful reflections on our situation and possible solutions.

God, I hope Bevo is reading this! And really thinking about where we might go from here.

While I think the real time game day thread posts should be taken with the grain of salt (especially my ramblings), I agree that the post match reflections are top notch. We're all feeling pretty crook about what we're producing on field, yet it seems we are able to put aside the emotion and provide some quality insights.

Long live WOOF.

[GVGjr]

I know a guy.

His name is Matthew, an assistant coach at Collingwood. Was rookied from Frankston seconds, scraped together a pretty decent career, then re-invented himself as a defender to extend that career by a few years. Nose like a boxer. I think he fits our requirements. Knows a bit about midfield craft and defensive structures.

I can recall at club functions and before he was a captain it was Boyd who split up the groups of players by redirecting them and getting them to do the things they were supposed to be doing anyway

He's not one to walk past a problem and leave it to someone else

[bornadog]

Have we though? Are we actually that talented?

There is regular "talk" about the talent on our list...but please, can someone tell me outside of Bont and maybe Naughton who would cause the opposition any concerns at match committee?

Spot on mjp I said the same thing


I think as Bulldog supporters we always over rate our players. We think we are world beaters and have the best A graders in the AFL. I have said this over the past few years but always the coach and the MC is blamed for our poor performances. The players have to take some responsibility and stand up.

I think our recruiting hasn't been as good as it should have been over the past couple of seasons. eg: GVGjr, has spoken a lot about our efforts or lack of, to recruit another ruckman, and I remember you your self said many years ago, we should always have a young ruckman either rookied or drafted as insurance.

The other area of concern in recruiting is getting another A grade mid, with some leg speed to help out on the outside. We have too many inside slow mids with Dunks, Libba, Wallis.

I want to see major culling come this end of year:

Gardner
Gowers
Greene,
Lynch,
Porter
Dickson (retired)
Lloyd (retired)
Suckling (retired)

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I want to see major culling come this end of year:

Gardner
Gowers
Greene,
Lynch,
Porter
Dickson (retired)
Lloyd (retired)
Suckling (retired)
I swear we’ve been saying this each year for 3 years now

[bornadog]

I swear we’ve been saying this each year for 3 years now

As Gough once said " It's Time:" and maybe a few more can be added in.

[Grantysghost]

Have we though? Are we actually that talented?


There was a heap of talk at the end of last year about how our recruiting was 'on point' and would send us up the ladder...I didn't see it then (I like both Bruce and Keath but still don't understand why they were important given the recent selections of Schache and Le Young respectively) and - further to that, didn't really see either as adding to our 'A-grade' talent.



Is there a bigger issue with recruitment/being attractive to the Brad Hill's of this world? It's an age old question with us, how can we get these guys. I've always thought our mids apart from Bonti are not A grade and was a deficiency that needed filling with more class in there.

[Hotdog60]

I've just gone through 2016 from start to finish and I just wonder how much influence did Monty have in our fortunes.
Monty failed in getting the top job in 2015 and could have easily spat the dummy and moved on but he stayed.

He was there for the raise of 15 and was there for the most part of 16 since he has gone we have struggled.
When he left before the finals the wheels were in motion and the game foundations were laid so Bevo just needed to keep the wheels in motion.
Did Monty burn his bridges or could we have said to him if things don't work out you can come back.

I like Bevo as the coach but I also liked Monty as the lieutenant and may be the down slide has been the break up of a winning partnership. I feel from the outside that he was the bad cop in the partnership and was there to tell the home truths and may be he also challenge Bevo on his ideas that the other coaches might not do.

We don't know what goes on behind closed doors but it would have been nice to keep a winning formula together for another season or two to see how it would have panned out.

[kruder]

Just on Bevo's pressers and his 'Bevo Brief' message today.
Do they do anything to inspire some confidence for supporters and dare I say the playing group that we have things in hand or does it come across as a coach struggling to pinpoint what the problem is?

Once again, this isn't a go at Bevo and I get and accept that his style is a bit different to most but it's not instilling in me the thought we are closer to a fix.

He actually said sometimes you need to take a step back to go forward that really concerns me.

We went out and got Keath and Bruce and now we are looking to take a step back? His messaging last night shed little light, and I walked away with less confidence.

The back end of last year was the first time our group got some continuity since 2016. We then start 2020 a totally different side once again too young(which Bevo said we were trying to move away from).

The biggest issue with Bevo for mine is that he doesn't seem to learn from mistakes. It feels like groundhog day.

That defence last night was set up to fail, Keath is a very inexperienced player so you support him with Gardner another kid? Then compounding that, you have Caleb Daniel the smallest man in the league coming across to help out an undersized defense?
Go figure.

Oh and while you are there Caleb let's have you kick out instead of suckling and JJ :confused:

[Axe Man]

Spot on mjp I said the same thing



I think our recruiting hasn't been as good as it should have been over the past couple of seasons. eg: GVGjr, has spoken a lot about our efforts or lack of, to recruit another ruckman, and I remember you your self said many years ago, we should always have a young ruckman either rookied or drafted as insurance.

The other area of concern in recruiting is getting another A grade mid, with some leg speed to help out on the outside. We have too many inside slow mids with Dunks, Libba, Wallis.

I want to see major culling come this end of year:

Gardner
Gowers
Greene,
Lynch,
Porter
Dickson (retired)
Lloyd (retired)
Suckling (retired)

Lloyd is contracted until the end of next season. Also a bit rough retiring our leading goal kicker from last season on the basis on one bad game (not counting round 1, not much the forwards could do).

[G-Mo77]

I know a guy.

His name is Matthew, an assistant coach at Collingwood. Was rookied from Frankston seconds, scraped together a pretty decent career, then re-invented himself as a defender to extend that career by a few years. Nose like a boxer. I think he fits our requirements. Knows a bit about midfield craft and defensive structures.

In his last season with us he spent a lot of time in the VFL. When I got down there to watch I always stood near the bench, I was always impressed with the way he coached/led when he was playing for Footscray. He'd make an effort to talk to nearly every player coming from or going onto the field and wasn't afraid to give a player a spray if needed. He seems like he'd be a hard but fair kind of coach, a good fit for this bunch.

[GVGjr]

Have we though? Are we actually that talented?



We have both liked our chances each year especially the last two years and so have many others have as well.
The irony is that it's often the same people here who are thoroughly convinced we have cut the right amount of players and have trading and recruiting right in the off season from a list management perspective are then the ones who question the quality of the list during the home and away season when we start the season off poorly.



There is regular "talk" about the talent on our list...but please, can someone tell me outside of Bont and maybe Naughton who would cause the opposition any concerns at match committee? JJ I guess...but the answer to that puzzle is a simple one - "Play someone on him". Who else? Macrae is a good player, Dunks is a good player - neither strike fear into the heart. Ditto Hunter. Crozier is a good player - but a defender who plays ON someone so how 'scarey' is that?? Who else?


JJ often cops a tag so I think it's a recognition that he is a damaging player and one that needs to be held accountable
Dunkley and Macrae have also copped some attention and I'd be planning on how to curb Naughtons influence.

I think we have a good spread of damaging players



There was a heap of talk at the end of last year about how our recruiting was 'on point' and would send us up the ladder...I didn't see it then (I like both Bruce and Keath but still don't understand why they were important given the recent selections of Schache and Le Young respectively) and - further to that, didn't really see either as adding to our 'A-grade' talent.



I think both you and I might have been in a small group here that pointed out that Keath was a better version of Lewis Young and very much a zoning defender like Crozier and Wood when we really needed a better version of Cordy and Trengove with more of a 1 v 1 skill set.
Despite the clubs insistence that we could play 3 tall forwards, the Josh Bruce acquisition was always going to set back Schache and/or stop Cordy being moved forward (I think he could have been worth a shot) and push Lewis Young into more of a back up option.

Once again many of the same people who said we had enough KP and rucks at the end of 2018 were full of praise with the club trading for bookend KP players at the end of 2019.



Bevo is fine. He seems like a good coach. I am pretty bummed right now because we are leaking transition goals again (just like this time last year) but I don't really think he is working with quite the same level of playing group as a lot of other people do. Am I surprised the Saints recruiting led to the result yesterday? Sure. But Brad Hill is a really (really) good player and - Bont aside, as good as anyone on our side. Zac Jones was terrific - hard running, committed...I loved his game. I guess Bailey Smith put forth a similar level of effort but not too many others. They are two genuinely positive inclusions for them...how did our inclusions go?



He is a good coach and he certainly isn't being singled out but he's not impressing many with his pressers and briefings and he might need to reinvent himself much like players need to do

The team isn't playing well and he just seems lost on how to fix it. The inspiration we were going to use after the debacle against GWS hasn't resonated with the players. The spur after the Collingwood game hasn't amounted to much and now a humbling loss against the Saints.



I don't know. I kind of sympathise with the coaches a little because it is so hard when you have to coach the 'game' and also coach 'the effort'. We want Bevo to be better tactically but at the same time want him bringing the passion and motivation? At what point does he focus on the game style and process and the players look after the effort stuff themselves? What is holding the players back? Talking to other coaches, they barely speak to their players at all on game day...and effort is self driven. Watching Bevo try to urge a response out of the players at half-time via the telecast? I just thought that was sad...why is he leading this? He should be providing the pathway - THEY should bring the energy to walk along it.

I just think - and have for a while - that we have a group of players who have basically achieved nothing however somehow all of them have assigned themselves a portion of the 2016 premiership.

Is it evident to the coaches which players haven't brought the right effort to the game because if it is then it needs to be addressed on game day, the next training selection or at the next MC meeting. They're professional athletes and must accept that some things about being a footballer aren't negotiable
Every player is accountable for the effort they bring to a game but equally every coach is also accountable if they don't address it


If one or two of the players aren't responding then make an example out of one of them

[SonofScray]

Can I add this into the mix?

Our last 6 games scoring has looked like this:
137, 126, 121, 55, 34, 49

It's a really stark drop off in scoring and shows, for mine the huge gap between our best (scintillating) & our worst (insipid). Thats not limited to effort, surely?

[comrade]

Can I add this into the mix?

Our last 6 games scoring has looked like this:
137, 126, 121, 55, 34, 49

It's a really stark drop off in scoring and shows, for mine the huge gap between our best (scintillating) & our worst (insipid). Thats not limited to effort, surely?

Insane to think we can go from kicking 20 on the trot against Essendon, then easily touching up GWS & Adelaide to absolute incoherent dross.

[1eyedog]

Yep it's football schizophrenia of the highest order.

[bornadog]

Lloyd is contracted until the end of next season. Also a bit rough retiring our leading goal kicker from last season on the basis on one bad game (not counting round 1, not much the forwards could do).

Actually three bad games. But that is not the reason, I was looking at his use by date (31 next season) and trying to give younger players a go.

[SonofScray]

Yep it's football schizophrenia of the highest order.

I think of the games where we've just ground to a halt on the scoreboard and been run over in the second half too. Collingwood might have done it to us a few times since the flag? St Kilda have too.

Opposition coaches make changes to counter our strategy and we cannot, or will not adjust. I think the players are being hamstrung by a coach without enough cards up his sleeve.

[FrediKanoute]

I have had serious concerns for a long time, since a particularly odd speech at a Season Launch. 2017 I wrote off as a hangover & banged up bodies. 2018 I was filthy about and would have pulled the trigger then & there. Chris Grant changed my mind at an Inside the Kennel function. I regret listening to the Great Man now & actually have him in the gun too.

Here's a couple of things that really bug me:

1 Skills. Bevo used to be a big one for skills on both sides of the body. He never talks about it now & we certainly don't look like a side that focuses on it.

2 Tactics. He used to all about working to what he has available, playing to strengths, a horses a for courses approach. Players responded well to it post BMAC. Some talented players felt freed up to shine, others clarity in their function. I don't see the adjustments happening in the coaches box anymore, certainly not in game and definitely not between seasons like we did the summer of 15/16.

Rule changes have hindered his tactical influence. 3rd man up in particular he still hasn't adjusted to.

3 Personal presentation. He has at times looked disinterested. Disengaged. Occasionally exhausted and rarely the man who was running rings around people with metaphors and interesting reflections on culture. Honestly, I was concerned for his wellbeing at times late 2018 through R6 or so last year. He looks healthier now and has been on an even keel in some ways, which is a relief. It's not entirely appropriate to speculate too much on this front, but looked like a classic case of burn out to me.

4 Sunk cost effect. Aside from Naughton's emergence as a real weapon, we see him selecting & deploying players that feel like we are chasing losses. The ruck scenario. Is feeling like that. Trengove out of favour, English thrown to the wolves, assistant shuffle, Gardner selections. The game plan gets doubled down on.

I can't move past the idea he is cooked.

You make some good points. I gave a free pass in 2017 and even 2018, but by last year I was firmly in the camp that he had changed over the list and had essentially a list that was his or one on which he should have imprinted his mark. I thought we had seen the emergence of that list and the development of guys like Lippa, Dale, Williams etc to take the place of some of the premiership team that had retired. Two games into 2020 and we have that same sinking feeling. We are disorganised; we lack effort; too much is left to too few; we still can't kick for goal......

Adding guys like Bruce & Keath to the team should have helped strengthen deficiencies, but if anything they have laid bare more of our frailties. The two losses are as much to do with structure as well as personnel. Its easy to pick on little things, but i think the problem is bigger and there is a need for a real re-think. I'll throw a couple out there:

Caleb Daniel - we played our best footy last year with him out of the team......why?

Gowers - does the e-factor he brings offset his many deficiencies as a footballer? Is he better playing closer to goal?

Gardiner - what does he bring that Fletcher Roberts didn't? What does he provide over Jackson Trengove?

JJ - why have we still not solved the dilemma of JJ being tagged? We know its coming why have we not worked on a game plan?

Naughton - does Bruce/Gowers mean that as a forward he is redundant? Is he a better option at CHB?

[Danjul]

I think of the games where we've just ground to a halt on the scoreboard and been run over in the second half too. Collingwood might have done it to us a few times since the flag? St Kilda have too.

Opposition coaches make changes to counter our strategy and we cannot, or will not adjust. I think the players are being hamstrung by a coach without enough cards up his sleeve.
At last!
Someone has discovered our game strategy.
What is it?

[Mofra]

In his last season with us he spent a lot of time in the VFL. When I got down there to watch I always stood near the bench, I was always impressed with the way he coached/led when he was playing for Footscray. He'd make an effort to talk to nearly every player coming from or going onto the field and wasn't afraid to give a player a spray if needed. He seems like he'd be a hard but fair kind of coach, a good fit for this bunch.
That's my thinking, I'm not sure we have a "hard arse" on the coaching panel the way we used to with Monty (who was both hard, but loved by the players).

It does have the romantic aspect of a 'homecoming' feel, plus he's had experience working with some very good coaches in a system at Collingwood that was a ridiculous Sheed goal away from being a premiership side. I really cannot think of a better prospect short of reincarnating Jock McHale or Norm Smith.

[Axe Man]

Actually three bad games. But that is not the reason, I was looking at his use by date (31 next season) and trying to give younger players a go.

We fielded the second youngest side in the league on the weekend, I don't think we need to be too eager to push everyone over 30 out the door. And I reiterate one bad game that he can take responsibility for - we were absolutely slaughtered in the middle against Collingwood and GWS - Ablett, Lockett and Carey together couldn't have salvaged those games.

[bornadog]

We fielded the second youngest side in the league on the weekend, I don't think we need to be too eager to push everyone over 30 out the door. And I reiterate one bad game that he can take responsibility for - we were absolutely slaughtered in the middle against Collingwood and GWS - Ablett, Lockett and Carey together couldn't have salvaged those games.

If he is playing well, then fine keep him going.

[jeemak]

We fielded the second youngest side in the league on the weekend, I don't think we need to be too eager to push everyone over 30 out the door. And I reiterate one bad game that he can take responsibility for - we were absolutely slaughtered in the middle against Collingwood and GWS - Ablett, Lockett and Carey together couldn't have salvaged those games.

Many good thoughts and perspectives in this thread, well done Woofers. I haven't had the motivation to post much since Sunday's disappointment, but have enjoyed reading as always.

On the point of fielding the second youngest team in the competition, it annoys me that this far from our flag and our clear direction to go with youth mostly since the middle of 2017 we still find ourselves fielding such a young and inexperienced team. That we would start the season by exacerbating this by playing Gardner alongside Keath, leaving Cordy and Trengove out at the same time Wood is on the sidelines seems baffling to me, especially when an older head like Duryea is also out injured.

I guess on reflection my question is, did Bevo and the rest of the MC really think this would fly? Given what we've seen with our midfield recently, and a forward/ half forward line that doesn't have the best track record in limiting transition to ease pressure on defence, was going in with such an inexperienced combination of players (largely inexperience in playing together) an obviously silly thing to do? Yes it was.

So why did we do it? I said in a thread prior to the game or during it, or something, it seems the flag on the season has already been raised and we don't think we can make a meaningful run at the premiership. I can't think of any other reason for us not playing with a structure that is going to give us the best chance of winning.

[Sedat]

We fielded the second youngest side in the league on the weekend, I don't think we need to be too eager to push everyone over 30 out the door. And I reiterate one bad game that he can take responsibility for - we were absolutely slaughtered in the middle against Collingwood and GWS - Ablett, Lockett and Carey together couldn't have salvaged those games.
It's almost as though we believe that, since 2017, being young is more important than being the best we can be, and that our youth will somehow shield us from criticism.

Maybe our list management should be brought into question, offering Trengove a 4 year deal and not bothering to play him. Likewise Schache. Both these players (and Young) are missing out to a player picked up in the mid season draft off no pre-season with the club last year.

It's either poor list management or poor selection.

[bornadog]

On the point of fielding the second youngest team in the competition, it annoys me that this far from our flag and our clear direction to go with youth mostly since the middle of 2017 we still find ourselves fielding such a young and inexperienced team.

We have actually lost alot of experience since the flag and in my opinion Sedat is on the money, poor list management, but I would also say poor recruiting as well in certain roles like Ruck and midfielders.


It's either poor list management or poor selection.

On list management, well there have been some mistakes over the years when we lose good players like Hamling, Roughead, Dahl and others.

Here is a list of players with less than 20 games:

There are 16 players - far too many for my liking as not many up and coming stars.



Games
Age


Smith, Roarke R
17
23yr 9mth


Young, Lewis
15
21yr 5mth


Hayes, Will
9
25yr


Lynch, Bradley
9
22yr 11mth


Young, Lachie R
6
21yr 2mth


Greene, Fergus
5
22yr 5mth


Gardner, Ryan R
4
23yr


West, Rhylee
3
19yr 11mth


Cavarra, Ben
1
24yr 5mth


Vandermeer, Laitham
1
21yr 4mth


Butler, Louis
0
18yr 9mth


Garcia, Riley
0
19yr 4mth


Khamis, Buku R
0
20yr 2mth


Porter, Callum
0
21yr 3mth


Sweet, Jordon R
0
22yr 4mth


Weightman, Cody
0
19yr 5mth



Which players are you confident will make it. Some of these blokes have been on the list along time. Roarke, Lynch, Greene, Porter.

So we find we end upon fielding a young team because the older players are either injured, or there are no ready replacements in the 100 to 150 bracket.

[mjp]

We have both liked our chances each year especially the last two years and so have many others have as well.


Thanks for such a thorough reply - I do appreciate it.

I 100% have liked our chances the last two years - and I am not trying to back away from that. I guess - and I have said this repeatedly - that what so many people see as a 'talented' squad (and they are not "WRONG") is really an 'unproven' squad. We have a lot of players in our 'best 30' who have flashed a bit of this and a bit of that over the past 2-3 seasons without ever nailing down a spot. Why not? Well, maybe it is because they are just young and struggling with inconsistent form - it happens to a lot of young players who eventually establish themselves and become consistent performers. At the same time, there are countless tales of players who have 'shown a bit' but could never put 3-4 games together (let alone 3-4 seasons) in order to become 'good average footballers'.

I *STILL* think our running players - Bont, Macrae, Dunks, Smith, Lipinski, Hunter - are enough to give most teams fits. BUT. Our forward line is very dependent on Naughton and Lloyd for goals. Our backline is very dependent on JJ and Daniel for run (though good on Williams for having a go at it the last couple of games) and Crozier for intercepting...our strength is 100% in our mids...our depth is in our mids (Liber et al) and outside of that, well, we are grasping...

Generally, if you can win the midfield you can win the game and we did a lot of that in 2019. And I thought we would do it again in 2020. But what we are seeing right now is other teams are bringing some really 'oomph' to contests against us and we aren't having it our own way through the centre...AND, from there, our 'other lines' are not good enough to win the day. Will they be one day? Maybe...but the grasping for solutions which we are all seeing at selection has got to be a sign that the MC is worried about the same stuff...

[The Bulldogs Bite]

It's almost as though we believe that, since 2017, being young is more important than being the best we can be, and that our youth will somehow shield us from criticism.

Maybe our list management should be brought into question, offering Trengove a 4 year deal and not bothering to play him. Likewise Schache. Both these players (and Young) are missing out to a player picked up in the mid season draft off no pre-season with the club last year.

It's either poor list management or poor selection.

I've grown pretty tired of Bevo trotting out the "our list has changed" line. Does he realise that he's the one who changes it? We were one of the youngest sides in the comp when we won the Premiership, then we got younger, and younger ... and 4 years on, we're still fielding one of the youngest sides in the comp. WTF is the philosophy behind it?

It's almost as if he changes his mind on the direction of our list every few months. Beginning of the year we're talking about challenging for the Premiership after recruiting Bruce and Keath, next minute we're talking about how we're a young group that's changed from last year.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I've grown pretty tired of Bevo trotting out the "our list has changed" line. Does he realise that he's the one who changes it? We were one of the youngest sides in the comp when we won the Premiership, then we got younger, and younger ... and 4 years on, we're still fielding one of the youngest sides in the comp. WTF is the philosophy behind it?

It's almost as if he changes his mind on the direction of our list every few months. Beginning of the year we're talking about challenging for the Premiership after recruiting Bruce and Keath, next minute we're talking about how we're a young group that's changed from last year.

THIS! It's like every offseason we recruit to fill certain holes in the list. Then we see the Round 1 lineup and it's just counter to those recruiting decisions. I mean we signed Trengove to a bloody 3 or 4 year contract and refuse to play him. We went and got Bruce and Keath yet now stop playing Schache, Young and Cordy. We went and got pressure forwards in Cavarra and Weightman yet play Gowers and Dale. We've recruited some experience to compliment out ver young list yet Hunter gets suspended, Wood goes out injured and then we go drop Cordy and play first gamers instead. It baffles the mind. We just keep trotting out the same old midfielders and 1000 HBFers and expect it'll eventually work??

[bornadog]

We just keep trotting out the same old midfielders and 1000 HBFers and expect it'll eventually work??

Who should come on then?

Libba recovering from injury

McLean has been out of form?

Anyone else?

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Who should come on then?

Libba recovering from injury

McLean has been out of form?

Anyone else?

I think the problem is we lack depth in there. I can't think of anyone who could come in a replace the poor performing mids. We have too many HBFers who are too uncontested to go in there

[The Pie Man]

Who should come on then?

Libba recovering from injury

McLean has been out of form?

Anyone else?

Seem to remember last year that each time he got an opportunity in the midfield he played well - 23 disposals vs Geelong (5th most for us) then injured the following week early against Melbourne.

[bornadog]

I think the problem is we lack depth in there. I can't think of anyone who could come in a replace the poor performing mids. We have too many HBFers who are too uncontested to go in there

This is my point, we haven't recruited well enough in this area. To me recruitment is under the spotlight with the make up of our list

[bulldogsthru&thru]

This is my point, we haven't recruited well enough in this area. To me recruitment is under the spotlight with the make up of our list

Our core mids are excellent but we have no coverage in the event of injury or poor performance. This is in stark contrast to our premiership year when we had loads of players who could go through there. Unfortunately we haven't replaced them.

[bornadog]

Our core mids are excellent but we have no coverage in the event of injury or poor performance. This is in stark contrast to our premiership year when we had loads of players who could go through there. Unfortunately we haven't replaced them.

Maybe we need to do more like the 2016 year and rotate a number of players through the midfield

Bont
Dunks
Macrae
Libba
Mclean
Smith
Jong
Daniel

[Grantysghost]

Maybe we need to do more like the 2016 year and rotate a number of players through the midfield

Bont
Dunks
Macrae
Libba
Mclean
Smith
Jong
Daniel

Have we played Caleb in the midfield before ? His delivery into forward 50 would be a nice contrast to some of our current mids loopy efforts.

[Danjul]

Maybe we need to do more like the 2016 year and rotate a number of players through the midfield

Bont
Dunks
Macrae
Libba
Mclean
Smith
Jong
Daniel
Good idea.

I saw a game where our opponent was a running team. They positioned a tall player in their back half of the centre square. He rarely move from there. They used him as a target when coming out of the backline. He gave it to a runner at full speed who kicked forward from about 65m. They killed us.

Tactics are important too.

[bornadog]

Have we played Caleb in the midfield before ? His delivery into forward 50 would be a nice contrast to some of our current mids loopy efforts.

I think he has. Give him the ball and he will find a target

[The bulldog tragician]

I think he has. Give him the ball and he will find a target

Where exactly did Caleb play in 2016? He was a winger I think? i don't much like him on the backline, having said that he saved a few goals with his cool head when our defenders were in full-on panic mode.

[Remi Moses]

Hamling wanted to go back to W.A
I take everything onboard here, but that’s not true

[bornadog]

Where exactly did Caleb play in 2016? He was a winger I think? i don't much like him on the backline, having said that he saved a few goals with his cool head when our defenders were in full-on panic mode.

I think once Duryea is back, Daniel has to move up the field to HFF. I think that is where he played in 2016

[jeemak]

Where exactly did Caleb play in 2016? He was a winger I think? i don't much like him on the backline, having said that he saved a few goals with his cool head when our defenders were in full-on panic mode.

He played largely forward of centre. I think given his running capability, which is why he is often caught on the last line (he is actually able to get back more often than some others) he would do really well on a wing and add some class forward of centre.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Hamling wanted to go back to W.A
I take everything onboard here, but that’s not true

Yeah he was inadvertently thrown in with the others due to the overhaul over the two years post premiership. But fact remains we lost a player we so desperately need right now for very little and he’s doing a great job at his new club

[DOG GOD]

I see many glaring problems, but it’s nothing new since 2017...

A) a plan A game plan (whatever that is) with no plan B
B) absolutely “scratch my head” match committee selections
C) skill level of a VFL team
D) overrated players

[Grantysghost]

D) overrated players
Champion data kiss of death. Think they rated Melbourne one or two after 2018 and they fixed them right up :cool: FWIW I think Melbourne have a good list. Petracca gone next level it seems.

[FrediKanoute]

He played largely forward of centre. I think given his running capability, which is why he is often caught on the last line (he is actually able to get back more often than some others) he would do really well on a wing and add some class forward of centre.

I agree he would be a much better option on the wing than say a Macrae in Hunter's absence. Once Hunter is back he plays a roving half forward role linking the transition from defence into the forward half. He is one of our best kicks and always seems to find space.

[Eastdog]

Fascinating solid thread. Great reading.

[jeemak]

I agree he would be a much better option on the wing than say a Macrae in Hunter's absence. Once Hunter is back he plays a roving half forward role linking the transition from defence into the forward half. He is one of our best kicks and always seems to find space.

Agreed, you also need some creativity in the forward line with the way we play. Think the kick to Bont in the dying seconds at the SCG, think about his hit to Dickson and his under and up assist in the second quarter of the elimination final against WCE in 2016......or his last minute goal in the third of the preliminary final in 2016.

If I could think of something really obvious to do, it would be moving Daniel up the ground. The rest of what I see, selection aside, doesn't irk me as much as this one point.

[Vred]

After watching Bevo’s 17 minute press interview tonight I am now convinced something is going on down there that they’re not talking about publicly.

[jeemak]

After watching Bevo’s 17 minute press interview tonight I am now convinced something is going on down there that they’re not talking about publicly.

There always is something going on down there that they're not talking about. It's just whether we're winning or losing that makes a difference.

Not being a smartarse, it's just how it is.

[mjp]

After watching Bevo’s 17 minute press interview tonight I am now convinced something is going on down there that they’re not talking about publicly.

17 minutes?? You are welcome to that!

Interviews I can do without. I am just so exhausted by all of the talk. Whatever they have to say will be SEEN tomorrow night.

[The Pie Man]

17 minutes?? You are welcome to that!

Interviews I can do without. I am just so exhausted by all of the talk. Whatever they have to say will be SEEN tomorrow night.

And not just the first quarter - was quietly pretty happy with our efforts 15 minutes in last Sunday.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

After watching Bevo’s 17 minute press interview tonight I am now convinced something is going on down there that they’re not talking about publicly.

I watched the same interview, and it didn't seem any different in any that Bevo has given. By nature he is a cards close to the chest guy. He's never disclosed anything other than the most generic soundbites.
That's not to say there isnt anything going on, its just that i don't believe anyone could glean that based on a Bevo presser. More like that it is just confirmation bias on your part perhaps?

[Remi Moses]

I watched the interview
Bevo quipped to the journos after about the third or fourth inquiry on why player x isn’t paying
Are you picking the team ? Not nasty at all though .
Stock standard bevo
Cards close to the chest

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Yeah the presser didn't ring any alarm bells to me.

Let's see how we respond (again) - if it's another capitulation, where to next?

[bornadog]

Yeah the presser didn't ring any alarm bells to me.

Let's see how we respond (again) - if it's another capitulation, where to next?

Keep putting in players that are hungry, and drop those that are cruising. No favours, no reputations, hunger for the ball and bring some intensity and effort.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Keep putting in players that are hungry, and drop those that are cruising. No favours, no reputations, hunger for the ball and bring some intensity and effort.

I wonder if we would see some real experiment if we drop the game by 25+ to GWS.

Things like English as a CHF, Sweet rucking, Weightman playing etc.

[Jeanette54]

I guess this is the thread we hoped never to have to read.

I question the fitness of the players in Round 2. So often we let St Kilda spread, and our players were unable/unwilling to go with them.

How was the training intensity of the players in isolation monitored by the club ? Were there targets and routines set for them ?

Our ball handling and skills have been woeful this season, and with our game (being high possession) we are incredibly dependant on skills.

[Hotdog60]

If we drop this one and all hope is gone. I would go down the path of giving some guys a descent run.
I would throw Sweet to the wolves and make him first ruck and see how he goes with a few games under his belt also rotate Cavara and Weightman through the forward line.
Keep the core players in but give the newbies and fringe guys a descent go to see if we persevere with them.
This is only if we bugger up our season.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

If we drop this one and all hope is gone. I would go down the path of giving some guys a descent run.
I would throw Sweet to the wolves and make him first ruck and see how he goes with a few games under his belt also rotate Cavara and Weightman through the forward line.
Keep the core players in but give the newbies and fringe guys a descent go to see if we persevere with them.
This is only if we bugger up our season.

I like your idea of playing Sweet and given our current forward line would like to see Weightman tried. Bringing back 3 Premiership players in Libba Maclean and Cordy will add badly needed experience against GWS but what has been served up so far you really have to question our lack of depth. Players like Dale Lloyd Suckling Daniel Keath Jong and JJ hardly inspIre you to believe we are going to seriously challenge the better teams. I fail to understand why Trengrove isn’t played given that English continues to struggle in the ruck. Tomorrow night will be a good test against a talented team to see if in fact we are capable of reversing the current trend.

[Mofra]

I like your idea of playing Sweet and given our current forward line would like to see Weightman tried. Bringing back 3 Premiership players in Libba Maclean and Cordy will add badly needed experience against GWS but what has been served up so far you really have to question our lack of depth. Players like Dale Lloyd Suckling Daniel Keath Jong and JJ hardly inspIre you to believe we are going to seriously challenge the better teams. I fail to understand why Trengrove isn’t played given that English continues to struggle in the ruck. Tomorrow night will be a good test against a talented team to see if in fact we are capable of reversing the current trend.
3 premiership players (including a Normie) and a guy who was in AA conversations mid-year in that bunch.

Our problems are in the middle. Focussing on the fringes isn't addressing our main problem.

[Mantis]

17 minutes?? You are welcome to that!

Interviews I can do without. I am just so exhausted by all of the talk. Whatever they have to say will be SEEN tomorrow night.

As am I... for the first time since the B-Mac years and before that the Rhode years I'm battling to find the energy to be ''all in''.

Let's hope for an improved performance tonight because its going to be a long 4 years (or an expensive one) if we continue to produce the dross we have recently.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Bump

Thought, after two good performances, it'd be interesting to revisit this topic which came about after two(or three) horrid performances.

I don't know where I stand. I'm not at all thinking everything is ok but perhaps things weren't as bad as they appeared?

One of the most intriguing developments is the ruck. Most (including me) lambasted Bevo for his stubborness with English and the ruck and not playing a "true" ruckman or at least a backup. Fast forward two weeks and English looks like redefining the position and after a near BOG performance has us questioning if Bevo is a step ahead of the curve. This sort of sums up our relationship with Bevo. Bewildered at his decisions or lack thereof followed by amazement/dumbfoundedness as he pulls a rabbit out of the hat yet again. Hell we should all just enjoy the ride right?

[comrade]

I said in another thread that last night was the closest we've come to our 2016 style, just in terms of pressure, fast handballing and running off half back.

It looked like a side that could compete with the best teams in the league.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I said in another thread that last night was the closest we've come to our 2016 style, just in terms of pressure, fast handballing and running off half back.

It looked like a side that could compete with the best teams in the league.

Agree entirely. I suppose what is most intriguing is how we can play such polar opposites of footy

[Murphy'sLore]

To my untutored eye, the difference between our bad patch and the last two games has been the intensity and pressure all over the ground. When we bring that, we can beat anyone. But when that drops away, we look like a rabble.

[josie]

Agree with today’s posters. Still think we will have problems when we face a good/great ruck eg Grundy, Goldy. Not sold we can keep this intensity up for season and think we need to somehow address ruck conundrum. Will be fascinating to see what Bevo does against North.

[Happy Days]

To be fair to those of us that were critical, many of the issues outlined have been rectified (ball carrier pressure leaving forward 50) or directly addressed (selection).

[SonofScray]

I said in another thread that last night was the closest we've come to our 2016 style, just in terms of pressure, fast handballing and running off half back.

It looked like a side that could compete with the best teams in the league.
That is the quality and opportunity we have in us. That's why my expectations are high and we should be absolutely rabid for success. They are good enough, now. Not in 5 years. Not next year. Now.

These fluctuations in effort, cohesion and selection are infuriating. It's like experiencing mania. We're up, way up. We're down, way down.

[bornadog]

To my untutored eye, the difference between our bad patch and the last two games has been the intensity and pressure all over the ground. When we bring that, we can beat anyone. But when that drops away, we look like a rabble.


To be fair to those of us that were critical, many of the issues outlined have been rectified (ball carrier pressure leaving forward 50) or directly addressed (selection).

Do we thank GWS? We knew the sort of pressure they were going to bring and we had to step up, and we did.

[jeemak]

Most of the issues around intensity, pressure around the contest and on the carrier, defending the ground properly were between the ears of the players. Little wonder the coach looks frustrated when these areas turn to mush, because these areas have seen the biggest change in the way we've played these past couple of rounds and they're largely out of his control.

However, we still have the structural issues we did in previous weeks that will be exposed by the best teams. But, most teams do and we're not quite one of the best teams as yet.

The stubbornness around not playing Trengove and a few other things will at times come back to haunt us throughout the season so I don't think we're out of the woods just yet.

[Twodogs]

Do we thank GWS? We knew the sort of pressure they were going to bring and we had to step up, and we did.


Great idea BAD. Let's send them a Christmas in July card. Hopefully it will give them the shits with us even more than they have now!

We could even send them a rattle and some toys to throw out of the cot for the next time we play them. ;)

[SonofScray]

There was a Freo game we lost last year where Bevo seemed to snap out of his malaise and the whole club followed. I think last night's press conference he was really enjoying. Watching it again, there's some good signs for me around his frame of mind.

[comrade]

There was a Freo game we lost last year where Bevo seemed to snap out of his malaise and the whole club followed. I think last night's press conference he was really enjoying. Watching it again, there's some good signs for me around his frame of mind.

I liked when the journo asked him if that was Bont's best game ever and Bevo just burst out laughing, then quickly composed himself so as not to embarrass the dolt.

He did seem in a good space.

Even the footage after the game where it was clear he was singling out players for praise, and the whole group was laughing. It looks like they've found some connection on and off field.

[bornadog]

After the Saints game, Bevo came out and said we had to tweak a few things in defence and around stoppages. I don't know what he did, but it has worked. We also have a better balanced team with some genuine speed.

Make no mistake, Bevo is a great coach, and supporters may not agree with some of the players he brings in, or drops, but there is always a reason that we are not aware of.

[comrade]

After the Saints game, Bevo came out and said we had to tweak a few things in defence and around stoppages. I don't know what he did, but it has worked. We also have a better balanced team with some genuine speed.

Make no mistake, Bevo is a great coach, and supporters may not agree with some of the players he brings in, or drops, but there is always a reason that we are not aware of.

That might be true, doesn't mean those reasons make any sense though ;)

[The Pie Man]

Most of the issues around intensity, pressure around the contest and on the carrier, defending the ground properly were between the ears of the players. Little wonder the coach looks frustrated when these areas turn to mush, because these areas have seen the biggest change in the way we've played these past couple of rounds and they're largely out of his control.

However, we still have the structural issues we did in previous weeks that will be exposed by the best teams. But, most teams do and we're not quite one of the best teams as yet.

The stubbornness around not playing Trengove and a few other things will at times come back to haunt us throughout the season so I don't think we're out of the woods just yet.

I'm coming around to the Keith / Cordy partnership if Cordy can maintain this form - though Sydney lacked a dominant big man that a Trengove could lock down...and our mids + Tim really stepped up.


Hmmm

[Ozza]

Rd 2 - s#$% selection, s#$% result
Rd 3 - good selection good result.
Rd 4 - reasonable selection, more confidence from previous week, good result.

[jeemak]

I'm coming around to the Keith / Cordy partnership if Cordy can maintain this form - though Sydney lacked a dominant big man that a Trengove could lock down...and our mids + Tim really stepped up.


Hmmm

I think the English to defence and up and down the ground is great on rucks of the quality faced the past two weeks. Goldstein has a fantastic tank as do a few others and he won't be unopposed to the extent he was this past fortnight.

[Mofra]

I have a major concern - we play a taxing style of football that is prone to "burnout". I hope we can maintain it, and with the rotation of players through form and injury we need to hope that keeps us physically and mentally fresh enough to do so.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I have a major concern - we play a taxing style of football that is prone to "burnout". I hope we can maintain it, and with the rotation of players through form and injury we need to hope that keeps us physically and mentally fresh enough to do so.

Whilst I agree, the same can be said for any side of quality. No contending side does it easy - that's why it's hard to maintain strong form and win finals.

I'm more concerned about our inexperience/kids fading through the year.

[bornadog]

Whilst I agree, the same can be said for any side of quality. No contending side does it easy - that's why it's hard to maintain strong form and win finals.

I'm more concerned about our inexperience/kids fading through the year.

Lucky it is a short season

[bulldogtragic]

Bevo coached teams make up 1/4 (5 of 20) of our 20 highest ever club wins, scoring effort, despite this era only being 7 years out of nearly a century:

1. North 128 pts (2021)
3. Saints 111 pts (2021)
7. Essendon 104 pts (2019)
12. Melbourne 98 pts (2015)
20. Essendon 87 pts (2015)

Plus 5 more 60+ wins.

[bulldogtragic]

Bevo must have been feeling vindicated last night:

Throw Naughton forward: 5.4
Get me an extra mid so Bont rests forward: 4.3, 26 touches, 5 Marks, 6 Tackles, 10 Score Involvements, 797m gained
Healy off! Dale back: 34 touches, 2 goals, 761m
JJ forward: 1.1, 1 GA, 11 Score involvements, 5 Marks, 4 Tackles
Daniel back too: 25 touches (10 intercept), 4 Marks, 4 Tackles, 6 Score Involvements

[macca]

Bevo press conference R10 : https://www.afl.com.au/video/619039/beveridge-on-treloar-he-ll-be-out-for-a-little-while?videoId=619039&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1621692085001&pageSize=50&references=AFL_COMPSEASON%3A34%2CAFL_ROUND%3A470%2CAFL_MATCH %3A3056&references=AFL_COMPSEASON:34,AFL_ROUND:470,AFL_MATCH:3056

in contrast to Rattens:
https://www.afl.com.au/video/619034/ratten-you-can-t-just-drop-off-the-face-of-the-earth?videoId=619034&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1621692441001&references=AFL_COMPSEASON:34,AFL_ROUND:470,AFL_MATCH:3056

[jeemak]

Bevo press conference R10 : https://www.afl.com.au/video/619039/beveridge-on-treloar-he-ll-be-out-for-a-little-while?videoId=619039&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1621692085001&pageSize=50&references=AFL_COMPSEASON%3A34%2CAFL_ROUND%3A470%2CAFL_MATCH %3A3056&references=AFL_COMPSEASON:34,AFL_ROUND:470,AFL_MATCH:3056

in contrast to Rattens:
https://www.afl.com.au/video/619034/ratten-you-can-t-just-drop-off-the-face-of-the-earth?videoId=619034&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1621692441001&references=AFL_COMPSEASON:34,AFL_ROUND:470,AFL_MATCH:3056

Ratten doesn't look flash and I think he carries a lot with him on and off the game.

I actually thought he was pretty good compared to a whole bunch of other coaches who have been in the same situation. Called out the need for change in personnel, but didn't whip them in front of the media like other coaches have done in the past (possibly a long time ago).

Also, it was interesting to note that his view is it's all between the ears when it comes to pressure, sticking to plans etc. A few around here constantly said the same thing about us when it had gone pear shaped, and as much as I think Bevo is probably coaching well our group seems to have matured and or is just that little bit better at taking ownership for what is happening on the field this season.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Ratten doesn't look flash and I think he carries a lot with him on and off the game.

I actually thought he was pretty good compared to a whole bunch of other coaches who have been in the same situation. Called out the need for change in personnel, but didn't whip them in front of the media like other coaches have done in the past (possibly a long time ago).

Also, it was interesting to note that his view is it's all between the ears when it comes to pressure, sticking to plans etc. A few around here constantly said the same thing about us when it had gone pear shaped, and as much as I think Bevo is probably coaching well our group seems to have matured and or is just that little bit better at taking ownership for what is happening on the field this season.

Yeah whatever it is, there has been a marked change in our effort and intensity this season. Let's keep it going.

[bulldogtragic]

Found a quirky stat, prior to the Saints game:

Bevo the player: Won 57.2% (118 Games)
Bevo the coach: Won 57.3% (143 Games)

To play for that long and then coach for that long and then be a mere 0.1% off an identical success rate.

[EasternWest]

Found a quirky stat, prior to the Saints game:

Bevo the player: Won 57.2% (118 Games)
Bevo the coach: Won 57.3% (143 Games)

To play for that long and then coach for that long and then be a mere 0.1% off an identical success rate.

You're a wizard, Harry.

[jeemak]

What's the benchmark for premiership coaches?

[EasternWest]

What's the benchmark for premiership coaches?

Looks like he could do 120 no problem.

[jeemak]

Looks like he could do 120 no problem.

See now this is where there's a need for more variety in the buttons when they are available...........

[EasternWest]

See now this is where there's a need for more variety in the buttons when they are available...........

I know it was another good one. We need an "awesome" button.

We haven't even hit lockdown yet and already I'm bored and antagonistic.

[jeemak]

I know it was another good one. We need an "awesome" button.

We haven't even hit lockdown yet and already I'm bored and antagonistic.

Yep, that's exactly what I meant.