WB Game Day V Carlton R6 2020

[comrade]

Everyone still think our defence is a strength?

[kruder]

Defensive transition back to round 1/2.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Everyone still think our defence is a strength?

We have holes everywhere.

This is exactly why I wasn't glowing about our previous 3 weeks.

[EasternWest]

Everyone still think our defence is a strength?

Not a lot our defenders can do when it's racing out of the forward line.

I look forward to our next lot of three or four forward bombs before a free running break out.

[Grantysghost]

Why haven't we adjusted to them getting out the back its absolutely infuriating. Keath has been massive but not much else to be happy about.

[Bullies]

That’s what you get when you fill it with midfielders.

Desperately need to bring in some genuine goal sense. If they are going to play Butler surely they can play Weightman.

[Mantis]

Not a lot our defenders can do when it's racing out of the forward line.

I look forward to our next lot of three or four forward bombs before a free running break out.

Yep, the lack of pressure & pace is telling.

West, Wallis, Dale & McLean aren’t quick and the ball is pinging out too easily.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Well, at least we are the youngest side this week...

[Mofra]

Really missing out two best forwards - Naughton and Lloyd

[AndrewP6]

Wishing any form of the virus on anyone isn't cool

If you are over the season, then look away

Again, it’s my view. No one has to agree. The players aren’t playing like they give a stuff.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

What’s worrying about the transition goals is that we can’t seem to rectify it in-game. I mean we fixed it up for 3 weeks after two horrendous weeks. Why can’t we identify the issue mid game?

Unfortunately we’ve let a top 4/5 opportunity go begging and are now back in the pack. Very disappointing

[The bulldog tragician]

Why haven't we adjusted for them getting out the back its trally infuriating. Keath has been massive but not much else to be happy about.

Keath our best in defence, but overall has had no help.

[EasternWest]

I know I'm going against the downward spiral, but I actually think we're going to win.

Wow this guy's an idiot. I'd hate to be him.

What was McLean doing then? Had a paddock,kicks to a contest. Run in and take a shot.

[GVGjr]

Well, at least we are the youngest side this week...

You don't think that will get a play :)

[Mantis]

How many kicks from us bounce in front of the leading player? So frustrating!

[Mofra]

Really lazy kick from JJ

[GVGjr]

Again, it’s my view. No one has to agree. The players aren’t playing like they give a stuff.

Last time, it's not an opinion on the game or the players performance etc, you are wishing someone gets the virus. That isn't on and won't be accepted here. If you are over the season then look away from the game
I understand anyone being disappointed with tonight's result but that isn't right

[angelopetraglia]

How have we been done out the back all night again. Saints killed us that way in round two. We then adjusted. Again tonight.

[kruder]

Really missing out two best forwards - Naughton and Lloyd

Lloyd wouldn't have got a touch tonight

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

How wonderful. We're now Carlton's bitch.

[GVGjr]

It's become a training drill for Carlton. This is turning into a substantial loss

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Copping a rightful belting.

Smith and Keath have tried hard, Hunter has been good. About it.

[EasternWest]

That's a hell of a badoonk from Casboult.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Can someone explain the rational to me. Bont getting beat, the Tagger goes to a second year player in Smith and we move Bont to the forward line.

[Mofra]

Lloyd wouldn't have got a touch tonight
It's a night for smarts. He's a naturally smart forward.

[GVGjr]

How wonderful. We're now Carlton's bitch.

They must enjoy lining up on us.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Are we the new West Coke. Don’t like the Hub.

[AndrewP6]

Last time, it's not an opinion on the game or the players performance etc, you are wishing someone gets the virus. That isn't on and won't be accepted here. If you are over the season then look away from the game
I understand anyone being disappointed with tonight's result but that isn't right

See you next year.

[Sedat]

That kick from JJ under no pressure whatsoever was pus

We need to face it that Carlton has our measure. They match up well against us and we are not interested in paying the requisite respect to them. We got what we deserved tonight.

[The bulldog tragician]

Ugly now.

[Grantysghost]

How wonderful. We're now Carlton's bitch.

We always struggle against them at Metricon. (Someone had to)

[EasternWest]

We always struggle against them at Metricon. (Someone had to)

I like it. Chuckle.

[Mofra]

Can someone explain the rational to me. Bont getting beat, the Tagger goes to a second year player in Smith and we move Bont to the forward line.
Our forwards were crap, we're winning the inside 50 count so we put our best player in the problem area of the ground.
It hasn't worked but it was still the right move, we had to try and win the game.

[GVGjr]

Are we the new West Coke. Don’t like the Hub.

A bit simplistic BB. Carlton have been on and we have been inconsistent

[comrade]

Honestly think our approach to the hub has been all wrong.

[Topdog]

Butlers kicking is not up to standard and our F50 entries again today have been pretty poor.

That by Simpson highlights why Carlton have beaten us tonight.

[Eastdog]

It has been a bad game but let’s not forget we have some key players out.

[Mantis]

Honestly think our approach to the hub has been all wrong.

In what way?

I’m more concerned about how we try and match up to Carlton’s tall forwardline.

[GVGjr]

Honestly think our approach to the hub has been all wrong.

What approach have we taken? Interested to hear what we might have done better?

[GVGjr]

In what way?

I’m more concerned about how we try and match up to Carlton’s tall forwardline.

I said a few times leading into this game that their forward line could be challenging. How do you think we should have lined up against them?

[comrade]

What approach have we taken? Interested to hear what we might have done better?

Did Port take all the wives and kids?

[1eyedog]

Out Coached we played a high press again thinking we can grind goals in wet weather but they played dry weather footy and feasted out the back and on the counter.

Again.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

On the balance of the season we're a 7-12 ranked side.

We need to fix the list.

[Topdog]

38 inside 50s for 20 scores, make that 39 for 21.

[Sedat]

In what way?

I’m more concerned about how we try and match up to Carlton’s tall forwardline.
If Trengove and Lewis Young can't get a game against Carlton, who are they going to get a game against?

[Mantis]

I said a few times leading into this game that their forward line could be challenging. How do you think we should have lined up against them?

Trengove should be playing instead of Butler.

Trengove on Casboult, Keath on McKay and Cordy on McGovern... allow Wood to play small and help out.

[Topdog]

On the balance of the season we're a 7-12 ranked side.

We need to fix the list.

With an average age this week of 24, we are doing OK to be a 7-12 side.

[Grantysghost]

How do we keep opposition under 40 three weeks running to this. 100 in a shortened wet weather game. Its hard to work out.

[comrade]

In what way?

I’m more concerned about how we try and match up to Carlton’s tall forwardline.

Conceding 100 points in a shortened game is all about work rate and attitude. We were in holiday mode from the first bounce.

[EasternWest]

Post the votes so I can turn this off.

[The Underdog]

Again, it’s my view. No one has to agree. The players aren’t playing like they give a stuff.

You’re right, it’s your view and I disagree. Sometimes you hit a team playing at their very best and you play 25% of yours for whatever reason and this is what happens. But I doubt that they don’t care.

[GVGjr]

Did Port take all the wives and kids?

I asked this a couple of weeks back about taking a full list and the general consensus was that we had to because there was not return to Melbourne date

Our players have their wives girlfriends and children with them when they're in Melbourne so I don't quite get why that should be an impact. Cricketers also often bring their families with them on extended tours

[GVGjr]

How do we keep opposition under 40 three weeks running to this. 100 in a shortened wet weather game. Its hard to work out.

Is the answer as simple as what work rate we bring?

[The bulldog tragician]

Did Port take all the wives and kids?

There are so many things we did wrong out on the field and in the coaching box. I don't know why that would have anything to do with it.

[jeemak]

Well that was a complete shitshow.

So frustrating to watch us overuse the footy and defend the ground so poorly. I wonder if we tried to be smart defencively like we had been in the first few rounds. We were clearly broken down.

[Sedat]

Percentage will be critical - that was a dreadful final qtr.

Our inside 50 delivery was poor and our ability to retain the ball inside 50 is not going to cut the mustard with the current personnel we have there.

[Topdog]

yeah dont understand how taking wives and kids stops players from using their brains on the field.

Does Ed Richards have either, cos he couldnt even grab the ball tonight.

[Grantysghost]

Is the answer as simple as what work rate we bring?

Maybe right. That was diabolical that last quarter. Many out there unsighted. Very disappointing. Three losses have all been blowouts.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

With an average age this week of 24, we are doing OK to be a 7-12 side.

All Bevo has been able to do is turn a young premiership side into an even younger 7-12 side.

That aside, this list struggles to handle real heat - once v GWS is not enough. We've been humiliated by GWS, Collingwood, St Kilda and now Carlton in a VERY short period of time.

The list has some talent but it's still a fair way off challenging. Too many mids who don't hurt the opposition and run both ways, too many leading forwards who don't pressure, not enough KPDs/ruck support/energetic forwards.

[EasternWest]

What I don't get was how were they so much cleaner off the deck than us? Plenty of one grabbers, but we kept looking like we were trying to pick up a watermelon pip.

[GVGjr]

Maybe right. That was diabolical that last quarter. Many out there unsighted. Very disappointing. Three losses have all been blowouts.

When we aren't as interested as we need to be we can be a very poor team to watch

Hard to know how we can turn this around

18 points down at 3 quarter time turns into a 52 point loss.

[The Underdog]

yeah dont understand how taking wives and kids stops players from using their brains on the field.

Does Ed Richards have either, cos he couldnt even grab the ball tonight.

Pretty sure not seeing my family for 5 weeks would negatively impact my work. We proved we could go missing with our effort and finishi in Melbourne and we’ve proved it in Queensland too.

[angelopetraglia]

12 more inside 50s and you lose by 52 points. They knew they could get us out the back. Did you hear Eddie after the game? Bevo always sets us up so we are vulnerable to the counter.

[Happy Days]

Blues were nice tonight. They’ve made some canny additions to address their faults, particularly inside 50 and in the coaching box.

Idk I’ve had five beers so maybe it’s that but feel like this is a mix of playing a decent side and not capitalising on our momentum. Not a devastating loss like the other two this year.

[bornadog]

I thought the Vandermeer miss early in the last which would have given us a two goal deficit, was crucial. They took the ball up the other end and goaled, and it was like we hung our heads and lost all momentum that goal could have given us.

[Remi Moses]

Another Sunday night shit show from our club
Seems we save our worst for Carlton
Didn’t adjust to the conditions early . Played like we were under the lid
Second to the ball as well , and gave them the corridor :mad:

[The Bulldogs Bite]

When we aren't as interested as we need to be we can be a very poor team to watch

Hard to know how we can turn this around

18 points down at 3 quarter time turns into a 52 point loss.

This is the reality - when we aren't 110% committed, we get humiliated. Good sides can be 10% off yet still grind out wins or at least still be competitive through fundamentals and structure.

When we're slightly off we look bottom 4. Truth is no side can play at 110% every week, you need structure/fundamentals to guide you through games like that.

I have huge question marks over our list.

[merantau]

I listened to the ABC and heard 75% of the 2nd half. There were quite a few players whose names were scarcely mentioned - Bont, Bruce, JJ, Cordy, Dale, Libber, Schache, Williams.
And if we look back to the last time Carlton gave us a belting we see the same names cropping up - McKay, Petrevski-Seaton.
Shockingly disappointing after 3 good weeks.

[Grantysghost]

12 more inside 50s and you lose by 52 points. They knew they could get us out the back. Did you hear Eddie after the game? Bevo always sets us up so we are vulnerable to the counter.

This is what annoys me with the rigidity of "systems". We could all see it yet nothing was done about it, or possibly, even more concerning could be done about it.

[Remi Moses]

This has nothing to do with hubs, wags , kids whatever !
One team wanted to get their hands dirty the other was us

[Remi Moses]

This is what annoys me with the rigidity of "systems". We could all see it yet nothing was done about it, or possibly, even more concerning could be done about it.

Something we need to address
Urgently

[angelopetraglia]

In an even, low scoring season. That was like two losses.

[Remi Moses]

I’m not sure the lack of performance and outside influence of the likes of Dahlhaus , stringer and some others can be put at the feet of Beveridge. Add that to retirements , injuries . I think the club didn’t handle the success as well as they could have , but some players brought that on themselves.

[SonofScray]

Is it just me, or was this very predictable based on how we looked in the first 15 minutes or so? The way we lose, it's very routine how it plays out. Once that wheel starts turning, there's no way back.

[angelopetraglia]

I thought our desire and commitment were there for three quarters. General play was even for the first three terms. We dominated parts of the second and third for zero reward. As we got frustrated and got more desperate to chase their score they exposed us out the back too many times. Cheap coast to coast goals after we have repeated attacks. It destroys your spirit and grit.

In the final quarter after Vand missed that goal and they immediately scored we dropped our heads and were disgraceful. But for the majority of the game I thought we had our head in the game. Just played dumb football.

The loss of harder more mature bodies like Dunkley, Jong and Crozier really hurt you on a night like that.

[kruder]

Gotta love Vanda and Smith.

I think 3-3 is a good reflection of where we are at.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

That was horrendous. I mean think about it for a second. This season has seen record low scores almost each and every game. Yet we have allowed 103 points in the wet to a team that struggles offensively. That was a disgusting display of effort and intensity. I’ll put my hand up and admit this team tricked me the last few weeks and I got ahead of myself and overrated the list. I’m sick of being a young side. Shit we’ve been young for nearly 10 years now. We’ve got too many slow plodders and too many unskilled “footballers”. And how we continue to be murdered on the counter is beyond me. That’s 4 games where either Bevo is incapable of rallying the troops to pull their heads in and concentrate or the coaches don’t know how to adjust mid game. It was the same old story for 4 quarters and nothing changed. We’re a long way off it to be honest.

[Dry Rot]

Honestly think our approach to the hub has been all wrong.

How so?

[Eastdog]

https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/742357/round-6-report-blues-halt-bulldogs-streak


ROUND 6 REPORT: Blues halt Bulldogs’ streak
The Bulldogs have fallen to Carlton by 52-points on Sunday night at Metricon Stadium.


The Western Bulldogs’ recent winning run was halted at the hands of Carlton on Sunday night.


After three straight wins, the Bulldogs started their Gold Coast hub adventure with a disappointing loss at Metricon Stadium.

The game was in the balance early in the final term, before the Blues blew the margin out to 52 points with the last six goals of the match.

The loss leaves the Bulldogs with three wins and three losses from the first six games of the season, and they have a short turnaround before facing Essendon at the same venue this Friday night.

Bailey Smith was impressive in a losing cause, with 26 disposals, six tackles and a goal.

Lachie Hunter could also hold his head high in his first game back from a four-match suspension. He was the game’s leading disposal winner with 27.

Laitham Vandermeer was the Bulldogs’ most productive forward, kicking two majors from four scoring shots, while collecting 14 possessions.

It was a high-scoring, high-pressure pressure contest in greasy conditions, and Carlton’s forward 50 pressure led to some early scores. By quarter time, the margin was already 19 points.

The Bulldogs lifted in the second and third quarters, dominating the inside 50s, but failing to convert their opportunities.

By the final change, for all their hard work, the Dogs were still 18 points in arrears.

They started the final quarter brightly but couldn’t capitalise on their territory advantage, and when Jack Martin booted his second goal from the Blues’ first inside 50 of the term, it started an avalanche of goals.


CARLTON 5.2 8.5 10.6 16.7 (103)
WESTERN BULLDOGS 2.1 5.2 7.6 7.9 (51)

GOALS
Carlton: Betts 4, McKay 3, McGovern 2, Gibbons 2, Martin 2, E.Curnow, Newnes, Casboult
Western Bulldogs: Vandermeer 2, Bontempelli, Dale, Lipinski, Smith, Wallis

BEST
Carlton: Setterfield, McKay, Kennedy, Curnow, Martin, Gibbons, Petrevski-Seton
Western Bulldogs: Smith, Liberatore, Hunter, Macrae, English, Bontempelli

INJURIES
Carlton: Cripps (shoulder), Murphy (ankle)
Western Bulldogs: Nil

[bornadog]

The loss of harder more mature bodies like Dunkley, Jong and Crozier really hurt you on a night like that.

Our inexperience really showed up. We had 53 inside 50s to 41 but Dale, Wallis, Schache, Bruce hardly touched the ball. Mind you the delivery was ordinary as well. Smith only 7 touches in the second half, Mclean was not clean enough with his disposals. The midfield was generally on top, but their run out of the backline killed us.

[Hotdog60]

It will be interesting on Friday after a heavy track and shorten recovery time.

[Eastdog]

Team Stats Carl-WB

295 Disposals 306
201 Kicks 168
94 Handballs 138
131 Contested Possessions 114
69 Disposal Efficiency (%) 72
70 Marks 52
8 Contested Marks 6
43 Tackles 54
33 Clearances 30
12 Free Kicks 20
41 Inside 50 53
45 Rebound 50 25
49 Errors 30
38 Hitouts 28

[GVGjr]

Too many handballs from us given the conditions

[Mantis]

Did Port take all the wives and kids?

I would think if we didn’t take families we would have 3 or 4 less players to choose from.

[Eastdog]

Efficiency Inside 50 - sums up our night

Carlton - 54% (22 Shots from 41 Inside 50s)
Western Bulldogs - 30% (16 Shots from 53 Inside 50s)

[kruder]

It will be interesting on Friday after a heavy track and shorten recovery time.

I reckon thats part of the reason why the cue goes in the rack in so many games this year, teams are already thinking of a short break break coming up.

[GVGjr]

I reckon thats part of the reason why the cue goes in the rack in so many games this year, teams are already thinking of a short break break coming up.

I'd be surprised if they see it that way, if I was some of them I'd be even more determined not to give the MC the chance to drop me

[soupman]

I thought our desire and commitment were there for three quarters. General play was even for the first three terms. We dominated parts of the second and third for zero reward. As we got frustrated and got more desperate to chase their score they exposed us out the back too many times. Cheap coast to coast goals after we have repeated attacks. It destroys your spirit and grit.

In the final quarter after Vand missed that goal and they immediately scored we dropped our heads and were disgraceful. But for the majority of the game I thought we had our head in the game. Just played dumb football.


Blues were nice tonight. They’ve made some canny additions to address their faults, particularly inside 50 and in the coaching box.

Idk I’ve had five beers so maybe it’s that but feel like this is a mix of playing a decent side and not capitalising on our momentum. Not a devastating loss like the other two this year.

I think both above posts really sum up my thoughts. We were decent, with bad bits, as explained below. They were good, basically all night.

What happened? Sorry this is a bit rambly.

Early we were severely on the backfoot. Getting killed in the middle, combined with wet conditions making it difficult to get it out of defence, made it look like tonight was going to go very badly. Tbh we came out of the first quarter in much better shape than I anticipated 10 minutes in. These early moments (and scattered throughout he game, but particularly early), showed the limitations of English, with his inability to arrest their moment from centre bounces combined with our midfield third dissappearing act this season making it really hard for ourselves. We don't even need to win the centre clearances, but after conceding two in a row we really need to find a way to lock that shit down.

I think the next 2 and a half quarters were really even. Carlton more or less held onto the head start we gave them, both sides ran the ball fairly well, had great intensity and pressure and had forwardlines that looked like they could do damage. I don't think our forwardline looked weak, I actually thought it created a lot of chaos ball and the lack of impact guys like Weitering and Docherty had shows we did well to avoid playing into their key cogs hands. Watching on TV is horrible for assessing structure, but we did seem to almost avoid kicking to Schache and Bruce. I don't know if that was the plan, or if that was their fault, or that was our fault, but it was noticeable.

I think the biggest difference in this arm wrestle was their ability to come out of chaos chains of possession with a goal. Too often they would get reward for effort and when they get forcing the ball forward, see the Newnes goal, Gibbons goal, most stuff Jack Martin was involved with etc. We however often faltered at the end, Ed Richards being the prime example of this with two horrendous stuffups.

At the end Vandermeer's miss into an instant goal for them that was basically the sealer broke us and that led to us switching off inexcusably. We were mostly woeful after that, and we really need a better culture where we don't just roll over when it doesn't go our way, especially when we've nearly had two weeks off.

Key areas where we lost it.

Centre clearances. As stated above early it gave them a head start that we never clawed back. We need to find a way to make our losses in the midfield scoreless draws instead of easy clearances for the opposition. This was compounded in the wet with a side that came to bring the pressure.

Big man impacts. Aside from Keath and to a lesser extent Cordy our big men/marking men (Bont and Wood) had no impact. We got killed in the air while aside from Weitering all Carltons bigs including normally poor guys like McGovern and McKay had a big impact on the game.

Small forwards impacts. I thought Vandermeer was good, Dale ok, Wallis ok in a defensive role, West very poor (and played very selfish, often going for marks or plays he had no right going for. He has to know when to reign it in and do the simple stuff), Lipinski good in flashes but otherwise very quiet, Richards terrible execution. Their guys led by Martin, Betts and Gibbons were all good. Tbf Martin is so much better than any of the other guys listed, but we needed more from our smalls especially when our talls gave us so little.

Chaos chain goals. Theirs ended up in team lifting plays where 5+ guys were directly involved in a team lifting goal, we did just as much work and stuffed it up. Richards was the main culprit here, he had two opportunities virtually in the goalsquare and stuffed it up both times. In each case a goal was super important for us and I belive both times it ended up with htem kicking the next one.

Little errors. Stuff like Macrae dropping a chestmark, Butler not carrying the ball over the line after Keaths amazing effort vs Betts, the aforementioned Richards fumbles/misses really killed us. I think all the above cost us goals, if not directly then soon after. Carlton played really well and made us earn our goals.

Inability to get our dangerous players to be dangerous. Macrae and Hutner were both good, but they don't reall hurt sides. Again Bontempelli had nowhere near enough impact, and i have no idea why we kept him forward when Curnow moved onto Bailey Smith. They can't tag both of them, so why would you keep Bont forward where aside from one very well taken set shot he had no impact?

The positives.

Alex Keath. Amazing. Serious Brian Lake vibes. Physically dominant, that same shuffly short step sprint, surly temperament and tendency to take of with the ball in a slight arc and kick long. His last few games have been very impressive.

[Sedat]

Great write-up Soupaman. The only minor quibble I have is you are IMO too generous to Dale and Wally. For 52 entries into our F50, we need them to be so much more involved than 6 and 7 possessions respectively. Betts, Martin and Gibbons all had double the involvement than these two and also combined for 8 goals from far less F50 entries.

Gee Martin is a class player. He causes maximum damage from his possessions and is often involved in their scoring chains. No wonder we went so hard after him.

[comrade]

Excellent write up Soupa, the lack of reward for effort was really telling for us.

Our attitude and lack of application when the chips are down is a massive concern. Cordy was laughing and bantering with McGovern all night, and he wasn't the only one.

Professional sport is such a mental game, we really struggle with it.

[jeemak]

Good write up Soupaman.

Not really a lot I can say other than I didn't think the ruck contests put us at a disadvantage, rather, our midfielders were either offencive or stagnant and that cost us some decisive clearances.

The amount of faffing about with the footy by hand in the conditions with a forward press higher than what it seemed to be the last few weeks hurt us. This resulted in an extremely congested forward line and plenty of opportunity for the Blues to transition cleanly once we were cooked after multiple entries.

However you're right, some key moments where opportunities should have been taken but weren't, and exactly the opposite from the Blues did us in.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Media talking up carltons game as sexy and fast. Yes they didn’t do much wrong, but the media said the same thing about the saints after their win over us. Anyone else think it’s more us that are making teams look good? I mean, when you allow so much space out the back, even the worst teams can look good when they just have to fling the ball over 1 or two players’ heads and into an open goal

[comrade]

Media talking up carltons game as sexy and fast. Yes they didn’t do much wrong, but the media said the same thing about the saints after their win over us. Anyone else think it’s more us that are making teams look good? I mean, when you allow so much space out the back, even the worst teams can look good when they just have to fling the ball over 1 or two players’ heads and into an open goal

Yeah, think you're on to something.

When you restrict teams to less than 40 points for 3 weeks in a row, then concede 100+ it's all down to attitude and application.

[GVGjr]

Yeah, think you're on to something.

When you restrict teams to less than 40 points for 3 weeks in a row, then concede 100+ it's all down to attitude and application.

Do you think it's a case we don't have that genuine hunger?
I think we've proven our best is very competitive but there is a question mark if we are going to see the good, bad or downright ugly each week.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Saw an interesting stat regarding carlton and us. Since 2018 their average score against all teams except us is 69.1. Against us it’s 101.3. They’re our new bogey team for sure

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Do you think it's a case we don't have that genuine hunger?
I think we've proven our best is very competitive but there is a question mark if we are going to see the good, bad or downright ugly each week.

I think it’s a matter of consistency. We’ve certainly shown we have that hunger but the gap between our best and worst is larger than the Grand Canyon. This can happen with young sides however I don’t think it’s an acceptable excuse. A lot of our young guys have been around long enough to have the experience to know better. We just need to learn to grind out passages of play when things aren’t going as well as we’d like. Right now if we’re off, even a vfl team could make a mockery of us.

Secondly, I don’t know if mental application is leading to the passages of play opposition teams are having when they get all those goals off turnovers. Are we pressing too high? If so, why do we continue to do it for an entire game without rectifying it? It really is baffling to me. Our three losses this season (and large ones at that) have all happened in the same fashion. If we can’t address it then teams have a fairly easy plan to beat us: pack our forward line and hurt us on the turnover

[soupman]

The only minor quibble I have is you are IMO too generous to Dale and Wally. For 52 entries into our F50, we need them to be so much more involved than 6 and 7 possessions respectively. Betts, Martin and Gibbons all had double the involvement than these two and also combined for 8 goals from far less F50 entries.


I thought the effort was there from Dale and Wallis and they contributed in their own ways, but I certainly wouldn't grade them any better than ok. I think what was glaringly obvious was that we lack a "chaos forward". Someone who is just so unpredictable in broken play, like when the ball hits the ground, really makes defenders panic, and can make something out of nothing. I think both Martin and Betts are this, as was Stringer back in the day for us, but almost all our forwards are a little straightforward and it means while our forwardline isn't bad, it isn't as dangerous as it could be and is much easier to defend.




Gee Martin is a class player. He causes maximum damage from his possessions and is often involved in their scoring chains. No wonder we went so hard after him.
He is beautiful isn't he. Absolute robbery that they grabbed him through the PSD, he was absolutely worth what Gold Coast were asking for and then some.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

RE our forward line, if you are the opposition who do you worry about?

Naughton - yes. Moves so well, fast and can take big marks. If he's 'on' he's impossible to stop and brings others into the game. Also has the ability to lift the rest of the side with the spectacular.

Dale - no. Play him tight, run off him.

Wallis - no. Decent in one on ones, but run off him.

Lloyd - no. Run off him, play him defensive side.

Bruce - maybe. Has the ability to influence a game but he's inconsistent.

Schache - no. Body him and run off him.

West, McLean - no. Can offer some pressure but hardly a worry for the opposition.

Whilst our forward line isn't terrible, it's not great. The good news is that it can be rectified quickly, as we've seen with the likes of Carlton and St Kilda.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

RE our forward line, if you are the opposition who do you worry about?

Naughton - yes. Moves so well, fast and can take big marks. If he's 'on' he's impossible to stop and brings others into the game. Also has the ability to lift the rest of the side with the spectacular.

Dale - no. Play him tight, run off him.

Wallis - no. Decent in one on ones, but run off him.

Lloyd - no. Run off him, play him defensive side.

Bruce - maybe. Has the ability to influence a game but he's inconsistent.

Schache - no. Body him and run off him.

West, McLean - no. Can offer some pressure but hardly a worry for the opposition.

Whilst our forward line isn't terrible, it's not great. The good news is that it can be rectified quickly, as we've seen with the likes of Carlton and St Kilda.

I suppose that’s why we went hard at Martin and Wingard. Whilst JUM and hopefully Weightman will give us more spark, we can’t count on them for a number of years. Who can we target in the coming offseason? I’m happy with our talls, I think we need a smart, firey small. Missing Martin hurts even more after last night.

[jeemak]

I'm not sure whether our high press is something we decide we're going to do at the start of the game and can't adjust in game, or whether it's a concentration issue.

Bevo's commentary suggested adjustments needed to be made after the Saints game and we seemed to defend the ground better and this opened up space and free players. Last night it seems we reverted back to similar issues as faced against the Saints, so is this a player or coaching issue, or both?

[Danjul]

I suppose that’s why we went hard at Martin and Wingard. Whilst JUM and hopefully Weightman will give us more spark, we can’t count on them for a number of years. Who can we target in the coming offseason? I’m happy with our talls, I think we need a smart, firey small. Missing Martin hurts even more after last night.
I thought Vander played better than Martin. He worked a lot harder, because the supply into our forward line was so poorly handled.

[bornadog]

Saw an interesting stat regarding carlton and us. Since 2018 their average score against all teams except us is 69.1. Against us it’s 101.3. They’re our new bogey team for sure

Carlton has exploited our backline the last three times we played them. We have made guys like Mckay look like guns.
We also went back to putting Wood on talls which stifled his intercept marking. Even Williams was forced to play a little taller.

[Mofra]

Carlton has exploited our backline the last three times we played them. We have made guys like Mckay look like guns.
We also went back to putting Wood on talls which stifled his intercept marking. Even Williams was forced to play a little taller.
McKay is one of the best contested marks in the AFL, he's no mug. Casboult too, and he's learned how to kick in the last 24 months.

[The bulldog tragician]

In Bevo's message today he mentioned the defensive press was too high and that was something to work on. He talked about the deflating effect of the fumbles and misses too. (I thought he seemed very flat but maybe I'm projecting?)

[Happy Days]

McKay is one of the best contested marks in the AFL, he's no mug. Casboult too, and he's learned how to kick in the last 24 months.

McKay had one goal for the year leading into last night.

[comrade]

McKay had one goal for the year leading into last night.

Joins Lenny Hayes and Brodie Grundy in the pantheon of players who sleep in the change rooms overnight before playing the Bulldogs.

[EasternWest]

Joins Lenny Hayes and Brodie Grundy in the pantheon of players who sleep in the change rooms overnight before playing the Bulldogs.

One of these things is not like the other though.

[1eyedog]

In Bevo's message today he mentioned the defensive press was too high and that was something to work on. He talked about the deflating effect of the fumbles and misses too. (I thought he seemed very flat but maybe I'm projecting?)

How many humiliating defeats in this manner does he need prior to making an adjustment?

[bulldogsthru&thru]

How many humiliating defeats in this manner does he need prior to making an adjustment?

This. And are the players incredibly stupid or lazy that they don't know when to stop doing it or don't know how to not do it or are too lazy to bother trying not to do it? I just don't get how we can continue to do something we know is killing us.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Interesting hearing Hardwicks comments regarding their game against Sydney.

He mentioned Sydney essentially flooded their forward line and that despite the tigers having repeat forward 50 entries they just couldn't score because of all the congestion. He also mentioned Sydney were never going to score as a result.
My question: Carlton employed a similar tactic to Sydney against us. Yet for whatever reason we allowed Carlton PLENTY of chances to score on the counter whereas Richmond did not allow that against the swans. There's no chance Carlton are world beaters and that much better than the swans. So what gives? Is it simply we pressed to high? Seriously i can't stomach that as an answer.

[G-Mo77]

I only watched until half time as I'm a very early starter for work, it was probably a good thing I switched off. I kind of knew it was gone when Betts got another Joe The Goose with 15 seconds left. We had them on the ropes but when we had a chance to get closer we dropped a mark or the ball slipped through our hands etc. Just those few little mistakes cost us dearly on the rebound. We just weren't clean when it counted.

I can't comment on the 2nd half but was the last quarter a case of the game is over, put the cue in the rack?

It's about where this team is at IMO. Our scalps are GWS who were underdone/injured, Sydney who look like they're on their footy trip already and Norf who did have quite a few out as well. I know we're not exactly at full strength either but we've been soundly beaten in every other contest we've had. I don't think we're good enough for top 8.

[Danjul]

Interesting hearing Hardwicks comments regarding their game against Sydney.

He mentioned Sydney essentially flooded their forward line and that despite the tigers having repeat forward 50 entries they just couldn't score because of all the congestion. He also mentioned Sydney were never going to score as a result.
My question: Carlton employed a similar tactic to Sydney against us. Yet for whatever reason we allowed Carlton PLENTY of chances to score on the counter whereas Richmond did not allow that against the swans. There's no chance Carlton are world beaters and that much better than the swans. So what gives? Is it simply we pressed to high? Seriously i can't stomach that as an answer.
Sydney flooded the Richmond forward line. We flooded our own. They all ran into the same space, how often did we see someone run into the open?

[Topdog]

Interesting hearing Hardwicks comments regarding their game against Sydney.

He mentioned Sydney essentially flooded their forward line and that despite the tigers having repeat forward 50 entries they just couldn't score because of all the congestion. He also mentioned Sydney were never going to score as a result.
My question: Carlton employed a similar tactic to Sydney against us. Yet for whatever reason we allowed Carlton PLENTY of chances to score on the counter whereas Richmond did not allow that against the swans. There's no chance Carlton are world beaters and that much better than the swans. So what gives? Is it simply we pressed to high? Seriously i can't stomach that as an answer.

Its a combination isnt it? We pressed too high but also Sydney flood completely back. There should be a happy medium to find there against teams like Carlton. The high press can work really well but Carlton have embarrassed us in the last 3 years.

[Grantysghost]

Its a combination isnt it? We pressed too high but also Sydney flood completely back. There should be a happy medium to find there against teams like Carlton. The high press can work really well but Carlton have embarrassed us in the last 3 years.

Richmond definitely setup deeper behind the ball too. Look at Essendon now theyve adjusted with Caracella on board and are very Richmond like.

[Eastdog]

https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/742551/key-takeaways-round-6


Key takeaways: Round 6
Recap the hot topics and talking points from the Bulldogs' loss to Carlton at Metricon Stadium.


1. Blues breach Dogs’ defence

After conceding less than 40 points in the previous three games, the Bulldogs’ defence was exposed by Carlton.

The Blues’ ability to transition quickly and get goal-side proved too much for the Bulldogs to handle.

They had just 41 inside-50s compared to the Bulldogs’ 53, but crucially when they went forward they capitalized – generating 23 scoring shots from those entries.

Remarkably, it was the third consecutive game the Blues have cracked a ton against us – following on from both games in 2019, which were split one apiece.


2. Hunter’s seamless return

You wouldn’t have known Lachie Hunter hadn’t played AFL footy for four weeks.

He was one of the Bulldogs’ most impactful players on Sunday night in greasy conditions, alternating between wing and forward roles.

Hunter collected 27 disposals and generated 475 metres gained – both game highs – and his eight score involvements were a team high.

Here’s hoping for more of the same against the Bombers in five days’ time.


3. The kids are alright

Not for the first time this year, the Bulldogs fielded one of the youngest teams in the competition – second this round, behind Sydney.

And if there’s a positive from the disappointment of the result, it’s this:

The kids are alright.

Bailey Smith was arguably best afield for the Bulldogs with 26 disposals (10 contested), four tackles and six clearances.

Equally impressive was Laitham Vandermeer in just his fifth game, kicking a pair of goals, and second-gamer Louis Butler had 16 touches down back.

[Grantysghost]

Coaches votes

Carlton v Western Bulldogs
8 – Jack Martin
5 – Ed Curnow
5 – Jack Macrae
4 – Eddie Betts
3 – Alex Keath
2 – Harry McKay
2 – Michael Gibbons
1 – Bailey Smith

[comrade]

Coaches votes

Carlton v Western Bulldogs
8 – Jack Martin
5 – Ed Curnow
5 – Jack Macrae
4 – Eddie Betts
3 – Alex Keath
2 – Harry McKay
2 – Michael Gibbons
1 – Bailey Smith

Can someone decipher these votes for me?

[Danjul]

Coaches votes

Carlton v Western Bulldogs
8 – Jack Martin
5 – Ed Curnow
5 – Jack Macrae
4 – Eddie Betts
3 – Alex Keath
2 – Harry McKay
2 – Michael Gibbons
1 – Bailey Smith
Is this saying Martin was clearly best on ground?

I thought he was a little way behind Vandermeer, although it always helps if you already have a reputation.

[Mofra]

5- Macrae
5 - Curnow
4- Martin
4 - Martin
3 - Betts
3- Keath
2 - McKay
2 - Gibbons
1 - Betts
1 - Smith

Really interesting votes - each coach's BOG wasn't in the other coach's top 5.

[soupman]

Only Martin and Betts got votes from both coaches, and Betts only just qualifies for that too.