Is having a "YOUNG TEAM" Important to our MC (and those at other clubs).

[mjp]

I watched Freo play GC last night.

Rowell looks great. But one of his goals was scored from a forward stoppage vs a Freo first gamer (Serong I think is the player's name). It was no contest. Serong had quite literally no idea what he was doing - had a poor starting point and a worse movement pattern, and Rowell waltzed in and kicked a goal.

The following Fremantle players were overlooked in selection:
Acres, Crowden, Blakely, Banfield, Valente and Giro. (To be fair, some of these could be injured - I wouldn't know!).

Each has SIGNIFICANTLY more experience. Each would have - I am guessing - have had SOME IDEA where to position themselves at the clearance. If they did that, the goal is stopped and the match very potentially goes the other way. And that doesn't take into account the fact that Serong's 12-possessions would have been easily eclipsed by more experienced performers such as Acres, Banfield or Blakely.

Of course, Serong is a talented kid and a high-draft pick. This isn't about him (or Freo). I think he will be good...I could care less if Freo win or lose or whether they are trying to win or lose. But are coaches out there intentionally picking *YOUNG* sides with an eye on development versus selecting their BEST side. If there are, I get it. But they should be a little more honest about it...I have no doubt a the absence of tier 2 footy is further pressuring clubs to play these kids...again, I can't imagine Freo want a high pick such as Serong to miss a whole season of matches at such a crucial stage in his development!

For bonus points, are WE one of those sides who are determined to be "YOUNG" and who do you think should be playing if it was all about winning games.

[comrade]

We are a young side...

But I'm not sure we're picking youth for the sake of it. It's just our younger kids are better than our more mature guys.

I mean, would Brad Lynch offer a heap more than Louis Butler?

Would Billy Gowers offer more than Vandermeer?

I guess Trengove is the obvious one but it's pretty clear that Bevo is hell bent on playing English as the sole ruckman, and he's backing Keath/Cordy as a big guys down back.

[GVGjr]

The premise of the thread if applied to our Western Bulldogs team is something I find very interesting

It's logical to assume that playing youth for the sake of it isn't that important to the MC and given where we finished last year, the motivation of the humiliating loss in last years final and the fact that we added two much needed key position from other clubs, losing draft picks in the process, then I think we rated our chances this year and were prepared to pick players on their form and merit

The disruption of the season due to Covid 19 might now have changed that thought process though because I think we are punting on youth to a certain extent

If you assume that getting games into the younger players on the list is important to the MC then I would have thought getting games into the likes of Schache and Lewis and Lachlan Young should have been a priority this year but so far that doesn't appear to be the case.

The fact is I think the MC does try and strike a balance between the current and future seasons and with a list cull almost a certainty in 2021 it's time to move on a whole host of players and the MC probably needs to know who can step up next year with a significantly smaller playing list

[Remi Moses]

Hard to pick a side without a bottom tier
My view is that young players now are more ready to go than ever before .

[bornadog]

I don't believe we play players for the sake of it just because we want a young team and I don't believe it is imporatnt for the MC to be so young.

We have a young team following on from many that have left over the past few years.

Here is a list of players over 25 plus




Name
Games
Age



Dickson, Tory
113
32yr 9mth
Available


Suckling, Matthew
174
31yr 11mth
Available - out of form


Wood, Easton
161
30yr 9mth
Injured


Lloyd, Sam
84
30yr 3mth
Injured


Trengove, Jackson
185
29yr 7mth
Availble


Duryea, Taylor
132
29yr 2mth
Injured


Keath, Alex
34
28yr 5mth
P


Liberatore, Thomas
134
28yr 1mth
p


Bruce, Josh
117
28yr
P


Wallis, Mitchell
137
27yr 8mth
P


Johannisen, Jason
130
27yr 7mth
P


Jong, Lin
63
27yr
Injured


Crozier, Hayden
112
26yr 6mth
P


Macrae, Jackson
145
25yr 10mth
P


Hunter, Lachlan
129
25yr 6mth
Suspended


Hayes, Will
9
25yr
Availble but inexperienced.



P = Playing
There are a few injuries that have forced our hand. Of the available, I think Trengove may be the unlucky one and Dickson is a chance to come.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

I recon everyone picks a side to win however this year as the quarters are shorter your not exposed in the last 5 minute of each quarter.

Some might think if it’s a 50/50 go with the kid as game time is in your favour this year.

[jeemak]

If we bring in Wood, Hunter and Jong when they're all available we immediately become older. Dickson is a chance to come in this week as well.

The glaring omission is Trengove, though if he's not preferred he's not preferred.

So in answer to your question, no, I don't think it's something we're prioritising unless we're losing and I'm not thinking rationally.

[Remi Moses]

I’d say looking at BAD’s list you could mount a case for Trengove and Dickson .
I’m sure they’ll get a look in at some stage . I genuinely felt for trengove as he should be playing ahead of Gardner

[Bulldog Joe]

Bevo has always been keen to give players a game at least and I have often found it frustrating.

However, once a player is out of favour it seems the papers get stamped pretty quickly. It also seems applicable to the bigger guys more often

Evidence
Minson, Campbell, Roughead, Roberts and now add Trengove.

I would be seriously concerned if i was Schache or Lew Young despite their age.

So while we give games to lots of new players easily, Bevo is clearly looking for mobility and expects his talls to compete on the ground.

It also seems that he does not value experience highly. He is clearly happy to explore what a new player can bring rather than adapt to what the experienced player (ie Trengove) is lacking.

[soupman]

The fact we have fielded the youngest team in the comp (or very close to it) for basically all of Beveridges tenure would suggest to me two things. That Beveridge loves playing the kids, and also that we have issues helping them progress to the next level.

We have a bunch of players that were very promising early and then were unable to improve and in many cases even maintain that level. Maybe in some cases it was a matter of the coaching staff loving the idea of what they could become and surviving on the glimpses they showed, but when they failed to get more than the glimpses they gave up.

I would suggest more than most other clubs we have had players burst on the scene in their first 2 years and look like they'll be best 22 regulars and then 4 years into their career find themselves firmly out of our best side.

Guys like Honeychurch, Webb, Mclean, Jong, Roberts, Gowers, Dale, Talia and Williams all showed alot in their first couple of seasons (Roberts maybe later but still early career) and since found it hard to take the next step and in almost all cases have regressed.

We also seem to have a tendency to reward the young kids early with selection of the back of promising yet limited good form but really try to make the 3rd to 5th year players earn their spot. Guy's like Mclean, Webb and Lipinski in particular were made to jump through huge hoops to get a game again while we debuted and picked younger players off the back of much less form and output.

And as Bulldog Joe says, once a player is even slightly on the outs their career is in big trouble, with Schache the most likely candidate for this imo.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Based on all our thoughts, other recruiters will see our kids as easy targets and maybe sniffing around to get posters in the system that complete the playing list. Most Business measure turnover and if we look at our turnover of players we would have to be up in the highest in the AFL. I thought what th having our own VFL side would help to address this but it seems to have done little to slow the turnover. We have had coaches change portfolios each year so surely this also adds a longer growth in player development

[Mofra]

The question is as much about the 21st and 22nd player picked.
Are they generally the difference to your side? Generally, no and sometimes you just need to "find out" about a player with an eye on list management.

Fremantle aren't contending and Serong just needs to get gametime into him as a kid with huge ceiling. Positioning is in part due to the coaching off field and leadership around him in the heat of battle.

For the bulldogs, who are (for example) the quick, pressure players who train forward of the ball? McLean with mixed results who plays better in our logjam midfield, Vandermeer, Caverra and Weightman. McLean played last round, Caverra has a hand injury and did get a chance in round 1, Weightman is raw as hell and Vandermeer is currently in the side (I'm guessing his extra year in the system is why he's playing ahead of Weightman).

For the Bulldogs the state of our list dictates the age of our side.

[Happy Days]

The question is as much about the 21st and 22nd player picked.
Are they generally the difference to your side? Generally, no and sometimes you just need to "find out" about a player with an eye on list management.

If I learned anything from our team selection and performance in rounds 2 and 3, it’s that players 21 and 22 are critically important.

[soupman]

For the Bulldogs the state of our list dictates the age of our side.

I would agree with you except we have fielded the youngest side in the league by far in I would guess at least 50% of the rounds Beveridge has coached in.

The state of our list may dictate it, but does this mean we are always at the start of a very competitive rebuild?

To Beveridges credit the youngest/least experienced side is usually the one that loses, although Beveridge manages to defy this consistently. He manages to find a way from those young guys to not be 21st and 22nd for impact, and often has them playin really well really often.

I just don't understand how we are perpetually stuck saying "Oh wow we have such talented list and so many talented young players who have already played AFL now imagine how good we will be in 3 years when these guys have all established themselves".

We have said that every year since 2015 and yet have seen the age profile of our side barely change and our performances not really improve drastically. Even 2017 and 2018 we saw as a clear out and mini rebuild and yet the sides we are fielding 3 years on are just as young and inexperienced.

[bornadog]

I would agree with you except we have fielded the youngest side in the league by far in I would guess at least 50% of the rounds Beveridge has coached in.

The state of our list may dictate it, but does this mean we are always at the start of a very competitive rebuild?

To Beveridges credit the youngest/least experienced side is usually the one that loses, although Beveridge manages to defy this consistently. He manages to find a way from those young guys to not be 21st and 22nd for impact, and often has them playin really well really often.

I just don't understand how we are perpetually stuck saying "Oh wow we have such talented list and so many talented young players who have already played AFL now imagine how good we will be in 3 years when these guys have all established themselves".

We have said that every year since 2015 and yet have seen the age profile of our side barely change and our performances not really improve drastically. Even 2017 and 2018 we saw as a clear out and mini rebuild and yet the sides we are fielding 3 years on are just as young and inexperienced.

I still believe we have been forced to field young teams due to the heavy injury list we have suffered over the past few years. In 2016, we had major injuries to players and kept bringing in new players. Same in 2017 and 2018 where on average we had up to 10, 11, players out each week. 2019, we weren't the youngest because the injuries were not as devastating.

This year, we are playing almost all the senior players, except Dickson and Trengove and the 4 x injured players.

We have tried to rectify the lack of experience after the departures and retirements by bringing in some senior players like Trengove, Lloyd, Bruce, Keath etc.

[Mofra]

I would agree with you except we have fielded the youngest side in the league by far in I would guess at least 50% of the rounds Beveridge has coached in.
Ok - so this year, apart from Trengove who is being left out in lieu of younger players?
You can name Suckling in round 4, who wasn't great in round 3 and is an older player with an ongoing achilles problem dropped on a 5 day break. Is there anyone else who is remotely like for like? Wood would be playing if he wasn't injured, and Laith got a chance after Caverra copped an injury.

I was in favour of a mature wingman last trade season (and I still am) but we didn't get that so we have to make do with what we have.