Trade Hypothetical.

[mjp]

So - we all LOVE Bailey Smith right. I know I do. He is 100% awesome. So...given that, here's one for you:

Brisbane have called. Hugh McCluggage has told them he is moving back to Melbourne...and the Bulldogs are his nominated club. "Apparently" we have been talking to his management and made him an offer he cannot refuse! The Lions are unhappy and unhappy with our conduct, but say they will trade him to us - but ONLY for Bailey Smith. They will not consider ANY other offers.

In the background, we have been trying to sign Smith to a lucrative new contract...only it doesn't seem quite lucrative enough for his manager who is making noises that unless the offer is improved, he is happy to stand out of footy for "as long as it takes" to get the deal he wants. He has heard rumours about the offer to McCluggage and wants 'more' for his client.

What do you do?

- Take the deal. Bye-bye-Bailey, Hello-Hugh.
- Tell Smith he takes the current offer or enjoy living life in Brisvegas.
- Smith is bluffing, tell Brisbane to come up with plan 'B'.
- Something else??

[comrade]

Definitely not option A or B.

I’m inclined to go hard on option C and if it doesn’t pan out, then leave McLuggage in Brisbane. We’d have to be offering overs to get McLuggage and then overs to keep Smith, and we still have Bont, Naughton & English to lock up down the track so it’d do some damage somewhere along the line.

You don’t piss off talent like Bazlenka and risk disrupting the playing group.

[The Pie Man]

Option C - he won't want to go interstate, and there's no way he stands out of footy for any period.

Start talking to Baz about mullet marketing opportunities - he's already got a cult following in the US!

Gee, McCluggage though....but no, Smith's already in our top 5 players.

[1eyedog]

The Clug is awesome he provides everything Smith does but hits the scoreboard hard. Ranks 2nd in the AFL for score involvements and 3rd for goal assists. I'd definitely be looking to package up our first selection and a good player but if push came to shove I'd do the swap. You know you are going to get a special player for a long time with the Clug.

[Mofra]

A token increase to Smith's offer. He'd be one of three "untouchables" on the list right now - Bont, Naughts, Smith.
A genuine burst mid who can win his own ball, and kick the thing.

I'll stick with a known quantity who flourishes under our system.

[GVGjr]

I need to consider this a lot more but if we were to land McCluggage then I'd be getting into contact with Antler Luggage and seeing if they would leave Essendon and come over to us. Easy marketing opportunities linking the player and the company.

Keeping Smith is the priority but I would call his bluff. He doesn't stand out of footy

I'm going to purely look at this from the view of what is best for the club.

McCluggage is an excellent footballer and one that we would be silly not to explore his interest in us.
If he is willing to commit to us we should be willing to do what it takes....within reason

Smith is an excellent footballer but if he is putting too high of a price on his services as per the hypothetical and is willing to stand out of footy then that is an issue.

We can't or should never try and force a player too another club unless he is open for consideration and it probably can't work like that anyway

Option C appeals the most to me but it all depends how confident I am that I can turn Smith and his manager around

I went to an Al Clarkson presentation years ago and his philosophy works in this hypothetical
Put your best financial offer forward, sell the vision that the club is finals bound but if money is the primary interest for the player then facilitate the best trade you can for the club. Having disgruntled players is bad for the culture.
I'd put a great offer forward to Brisbane but hold firm that Smith isn't leaving us. If they say no then so be it

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Can we shut this thread down before the "journos" get onto it and think its real?? :D

Although i guess it depends which side of the fence you sit....

We have to keep Baz. He's a cult figure. And he's going to be that elite, burst mid fielder all clubs dream to have. Sure McCluggage would be a massive get, but we already have an elite talent in Baz so lets do what we need to keep him. I don't even want to consider the possibility he wants out.

[comrade]

You know you are going to get a special player for a long time with the Clug.

You don't think the same of Bazlenka?

[Ozza]

I really like McLuggage - and I hope my bias isn't clouding my judgement - but I think Baz' ceiling is higher. I'm not sure exactly what that means for the hypothetical, but I'm happy to prioritise Smith over McLuggage in that situation.

[Hotdog60]

Is there word out there that Bailey wants out?
I know this is hypothetical but talk about keeping him has come up in other threads.

[FrediKanoute]

I went to an Al Clarkson presentation years ago and his philosophy works in this hypothetical
Put your best financial offer forward, sell the vision that the club is finals bound but if money is the primary interest for the player then facilitate the best trade you can for the club. Having disgruntled players is bad for the culture.
I'd put a great offer forward to Brisbane but hold firm that Smith isn't leaving us. If they say no then so be it

Funny, this philosophy works in the business world as well. We've just done a round of pay restructures because of C-19 and this is basically the approach we have taken with some of our contracted employees.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Is there word out there that Bailey wants out?
I know this is hypothetical but talk about keeping him has come up in other threads.

There’s been talks since before he was drafted that he will go to the hawks at some point. I have no idea what that’s based on though

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Interesting hypothetical Mike.
If in the fictional scenario Bailey's motivation was clearly focused earning more paper, then with the greatest of reluctance I would move him, especially if it was for a motivated McCluggage.
I actually think we missed an opportunity in 2017 to make a stand. JJ left us hanging for so long, it felt like a distraction, and it seemed to me he was leveraging his Norm Smith for a big payday. It may've been one of the reasons we just seemed to lose that '100% all in, band of brothers' mentality we had.
I thought we blinked first, and towards the end I was advocating that we start floating trade talks. Hawthorn and Geelong seem to have a culture that puts team success above contract size.
In your scenario, if paper became a aticking point then move on, especially if someone of the character of McCluggage is coming in
Nice discussion topic Mike!

[1eyedog]

A token increase to Smith's offer. He'd be one of three "untouchables" on the list right now - Bont, Naughts, Smith.
A genuine burst mid who can win his own ball, and kick the thing.

I'll stick with a known quantity who flourishes under our system.

I think Clug is known quantity, or quality as the case may be. There's no guarantee we keep Smith and clubs will come hard. If Clug really wants to be with us you'd be mad not to look at the swap very hard.

[jazzadogs]

Is there word out there that Bailey wants out?
I know this is hypothetical but talk about keeping him has come up in other threads.

It's a vibe that I had picked up, without any specific quotes or reasoning for it. I have a genuine fear that he will be enticed by a 'big' club (one of the ones that is relying on AFL money atm).

I hope he stays as he has genuine ability to be a top 10 player in the competition. McLuggage is currently two seasons ahead of Bazlenka, and I think Baz will catch him by that stage. His commitment to training is outstanding, his development in 18 months has been more exponential than the coronavirus, and the abilities he brings to our team are sorely needed.

Specific to the hypothetical, I would leave Mcluggage in Brisbane. If Baz was leaving and we couldn't entice him to stay, then I would want a player of Mcluggage's quality in return.

[Happy Days]

I would never do this because it's a NBA 2K trade that could stuff any sense of culture that we have built in the group, but indulging this for a second;

The best possible way to get a pantheon level superstar is to draft them and get to develop them from day dot, with as little interruption as possible. Cripps, Fyfe, Bont, Dustin, four of the best five players in the game, all have this in common, and the other one, Dangerfield, largely got the same opportunity before being dealt as a complete package.

From a purely asset point of view it's a sideways move, and in reality it would be a schismatic change for two young players that could really hurt their development and set both teams back.

[Remi Moses]

Is this a retrospective thread from the 70’s when we lost players willy nilly
The negativity on here :confused:

[1eyedog]

You don't think the same of Bazlenka?

Absolutely and I love Baz but I REALLY like what Clug does forward of centre. He's played 50 more games granted but he's top 3 in the league on score involvement and goal assists. I mean that's mad.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

From a purely asset point of view it's a sideways move, and in reality it would be a schismatic change for two young players that could really hurt their development and set both teams back.

Are you referring to the Schacke situation

[comrade]

Absolutely and I love Baz but I REALLY like what Clug does forward of centre. He's played 50 more games granted but he's top 3 in the league on score involvement and goal assists. I mean that's mad.

I wouldn't be surprised if Baz reaches or exceeds Clug in another 50 games.

Clug also has the benefit of a team that has feasted on some easy kills in the first 4 weeks, Baz hasn't had that luxury.

[1eyedog]

I wouldn't be surprised if Baz reaches or exceeds Clug in another 50 games.

Clug also has the benefit of a team that has feasted on some easy kills in the first 4 weeks, Baz hasn't had that luxury.

All good points. Also Clug has a fair bit of work put into him as well regardless of the opposition.

[EasternWest]

Ahh yes I remember how well it worked out last time we low balled a future gun.

[comrade]

Ahh yes I remember how well it worked out last time we low balled a future gun.

We ended up with Jack Macrae???

[EasternWest]

We ended up with Jack Macrae???

I love Jack Macrae but I'd trade him for Callan Ward in a heartbeat.

Well maybe not a heartbeat, but I'd love Ward back.

[jeemak]

I can't answer this sensibly as I'm in love with Baz and haven't seen much of Brisbane given I was out of the country last year and really only made sure I was across Dogs games.

However, I'm calling the bluff. Not talking about low-balling, if we offer what's fair and reasonable and it's rejected then so be it. Sure what's fair and reasonable is subjective and what's available on the market versus what's available within a club filled with some blue chip players rarely aligns, but you need to avoid paying overs to some and unders to others.

Baz alone isn't going to win us a flag, subbing him out and bringing someone of McCluggage's quality in is going to be a relatively neutral outcome on that front. A good list structure, a good playing culture and an even spread of quality in your bottom 16-18 regular players will have more of an impact.

[jeemak]

I love Jack Macrae but I'd trade him for Callan Ward in a heartbeat.

Well maybe not a heartbeat, but I'd love Ward back.

Now there's a good idea for a sliding doors review. I love Jacko, he's been great for us in some really big games though Ward if given the opportunity could have been as well.

I wonder what Jacko's output/ status in the GWS environment would have been like compared to what he's been able to produce in ours.

[mjp]

1/. I don't know anything.
2/. This is just a bit of fun.

There has been a bit of Bailey Smith love around my Bulldogs "people" lately and - much like a back in the day thread I remember proposing a hypothetical "Mitch Hahn for Jason Akermanis" trade, I thought I would use the same two clubs and put something up.

Please don't think I am saying Smith is leaving or McCluggage is coming...don't take it so literally...it's just a conversation about the outright VALUE of a football player...

[1eyedog]

1/. I don't know anything.
2/. This is just a bit of fun.

There has been a bit of Bailey Smith love around my Bulldogs "people" lately and - much like a back in the day thread I remember proposing a hypothetical "Mitch Hahn for Jason Akermanis" trade, I thought I would use the same two clubs and put something up.

Please don't think I am saying Smith is leaving or McCluggage is coming...don't take it so literally...it's just a conversation about the outright VALUE of a football player...

Would you do the swap?

[mjp]

Would you do the swap?

LOL. Ummm. No.

I wouldn't trade Bailey Smith for anything or anyone. I wouldn't trade Bailey Smith for the Great Southern Stand (mind you, that has probably dropped in value since, well, there aren't any actual crowds!).

He is John Platten re-incarnate. He is in and under, take the game on, tackle hard, cop it back, keep smiling and do it again. McCluggage is class and I love watching him play...but Smith represents the type of footballer I always wished that I could have been (stylistically talking of course).

[bornadog]

Me too, I would never trade Smith, but I have a feeling they will be coming for him soon, so we better be prepared.

[Hotdog60]

I would be signing him up on a 10 year deal now with a couple of clauses in the contract for a little bit of protection.

[Bulldog Joe]

LOL. Ummm. No.

I wouldn't trade Bailey Smith for anything or anyone. I wouldn't trade Bailey Smith for the Great Southern Stand (mind you, that has probably dropped in value since, well, there aren't any actual crowds!).

He is John Platten re-incarnate. He is in and under, take the game on, tackle hard, cop it back, keep smiling and do it again. McCluggage is class and I love watching him play...but Smith represents the type of footballer I always wished that I could have been (stylistically talking of course).

I really like this description.

Bailey Smith has got me as excited as any player we have ever drafted and we have been spoiled by the draftees in recent years.

[Mofra]

Me too, I would never trade Smith, but I have a feeling they will be coming for him soon, so we better be prepared.
I'm sure every gun youngster is considered by 17 other clubs.
I'm also sure we will have the cap space to sign him up to a juicy, long term deal from next year. Trengove + Suckling are on $750-800k between them and with three kids likely coming to us (JUH, Raak, McPherson) that's three base-salary players for the next two years.

[mjp]

I'm sure every gun youngster is considered by 17 other clubs.
I'm also sure we will have the cap space to sign him up to a juicy, long term deal from next year. Trengove + Suckling are on $750-800k between them and with three kids likely coming to us (JUH, Raak, McPherson) that's three base-salary players for the next two years.

It's cool to think that players like JUH are signed on base level deals. It isn't so. That's why so many high picks 'extend' their contracts before they even play a single game.

[Dancin' Douggy]

I would not even think about trading Smith for one second.

[comrade]

How about instead of McLuggage, it was Charlie Cameron on the table?

[bornadog]

How about instead of McLuggage, it was Charlie Cameron on the table?

Charlie is still only 25 years old - seems he has been around a long time.

I would still stick with Smith.

[Mofra]

It's cool to think that players like JUH are signed on base level deals. It isn't so. That's why so many high picks 'extend' their contracts before they even play a single game.
IIRC We can't pay them more than their mandated salary in their first two years, hence the restriction on payment in the first year of Tom Boyd's monster deal.

[1eyedog]

How about instead of McLuggage, it was Charlie Cameron on the table?

That's a no brainer. I mean I have Bulldog-coloured glasses on too but Cameron is just what we need.

[Sedat]

That's a no brainer. I mean I have Bulldog-coloured glasses on too but Cameron is just what we need.
Not sure Cameron gets it done in finals, where the space is not there. He is a cream on the cake type, not someone who really influences results at the pointy end of the season. By contrast, players like Bailey Smith with their inside/outside skill set are worth their weight in gold come the high pressure environment of finals.

[comrade]

That's a no brainer. I mean I have Bulldog-coloured glasses on too but Cameron is just what we need.

Man, you're underrating a kid that could end up in the Danger/Dusty echelon.

[Twodogs]

Not sure Cameron gets it done in finals, where the space is not there. He is a cream on the cake type, not someone who really influences results at the pointy end of the season. By contrast, players like Bailey Smith with their inside/outside skill set are worth their weight in gold come the high pressure environment of finals.

Agreed. Charlie is good but he needs the structure beneath him that gets the ball to him. No point trading out that structure player in order to get him. If we put Smith up forward and left him there then he would kick as many goals and provide the same pressure as Cameron. If we put Cameron into the middle he wouldn't provide half of what Baz provides.

Baz has it all. He's inside/outside, uses the ball well, never panics, loves to tuck the ball under his arm and run, he lives for a challenge and he kicks goals. When a player twice his size pushes him over then he's back on his feet in an instant and he pushes him right back and while he might not sit the other bloke on his arse (not yet anyway) the wicked smile on his face says it all.

Baz is top 5 on our list already and I will be disappointed if he isn't top 5 in the competition in a couple of years. Baz and The Bont will be destroying teams for years to come. Other clubs will come for him in the future and they will be offering a lot more than Hugh McCluggage.

[Mofra]

TBH I'd prefer McCluggage to Cameron, and Baz to both.
A genuine ball winner who can burst away from the stoppages is rare, especially when they can actually kick the damn thing.

I suspect Max King ends up the bet player form the draft with Baz a close second.

[comrade]

TBH I'd prefer McCluggage to Cameron, and Baz to both.
A genuine ball winner who can burst away from the stoppages is rare, especially when they can actually kick the damn thing.

I suspect Max King ends up the bet player form the draft with Baz a close second.

Ben King is better than Max, IMO.

[1eyedog]

Not sure Cameron gets it done in finals, where the space is not there. He is a cream on the cake type, not someone who really influences results at the pointy end of the season. By contrast, players like Bailey Smith with their inside/outside skill set are worth their weight in gold come the high pressure environment of finals.

I don't know, maybe. He was good against us in 2015, played a blinder in 2017 I think and was injured in Brisbane's second final last year. I think he goes alright.

[1eyedog]

Man, you're underrating a kid that could end up in the Danger/Dusty echelon.

I hope so!

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Ben King is better than Max, IMO.

Agreed. Max looks good but Ben just looks even more athletic.

[The Pie Man]

How about instead of McLuggage, it was Charlie Cameron on the table?

Not Smith - but in the 'you have to give a little to get' vibe, I'd put up Macrae for Cameron.

[comrade]

Not Smith - but in the 'you have to give a little to get' vibe, I'd put up Macrae for Cameron.

It would hurt, but I probably would too.

[EasternWest]

Man, you're underrating a kid that could end up in the Danger/Dusty echelon.

Seconded.

Smith is currently untradeable.

[DOG GOD]

Not Smith - but in the 'you have to give a little to get' vibe, I'd put up Macrae for Cameron.

Same.

Bont, Dunkley And smith are ahead of Macrae as far as I’m concerned...so, yes it would be tough, but we would die for a player like Cameron in our fwd 50.

[jeemak]

I'd be inclined to move Dunkley on before moving Jacko on. I think Jacko has more impact for his touches, and is more creative whilst being hard as nails.

I wouldn't give up Jacko for Cameron.

[DOG GOD]

The thing that absolutely gripes me about macrae is his kicking. His “suckling” type jabs that rarely comes off and turns the ball over by not hitting a target from 20 metres. If he got this out of his game, he’d move up my list. And yes, I know Dunkley has disposable issues, but we know that, I expect a lot more from macrae if he wants to be elite in my eyes.

[Happy Days]

Giving up good players who don't want to leave is asking for it. It took Brisbane nearly 10 years to get over what Voss did to their list.

[josie]

Giving up good players who don't want to leave is asking for it. It took Brisbane nearly 10 years to get over what Voss did to their list.

Agree - line ball with Macrae and Dunkley but both durable and v.hard to replace. Not sure I could stomach Cameron in dogs colours (ARRGH). I suppose after a few goals from 50 m arc he could swing me around though.

[jeemak]

Agree - line ball with Macrae and Dunkley but both durable and v.hard to replace. Not sure I could stomach Cameron in dogs colours (ARRGH). I suppose after a few goals from 50 m arc he could swing me around though.

Charlie Cameron? Or Jeremy Cameron? I thought we were talking about the former?

[jeemak]

Giving up good players who don't want to leave is asking for it. It took Brisbane nearly 10 years to get over what Voss did to their list.

Who could forget Crazy Vossy! I think it's possibly the most suitable/ apt name for a coach at the particular time going around, absolutely love it.

[GVGjr]

Same.

Bont, Dunkley And smith are ahead of Macrae as far as I’m concerned...so, yes it would be tough, but we would die for a player like Cameron in our fwd 50.

I think you're underrating Macrae just a bit. He's better than both Dunkley and Smith right now and he still has a lot of good footy in front of him. Smith will be a great player for us but is he really better than Macrae right now?

[1eyedog]

I'd swap Macrae for Cameron but I'd swap Smith for him too. You can always find and entice a really good midfielder but you'll rarely get a chance to entice a 25 year old Charlie Cameron - type.

The only two totally untradeable players for me are Bont and Naughts.

[Twodogs]

Charlie Cameron? Or Jeremy Cameron? I thought we were talking about the former?

Definitely Charlie Cameron. It would be ironic changing Charlie who'd have a shot if he was kicking out from fullback after the opposition kicked a behind with Macrae who'd handball backwards to a player 30 metres out if he had the ball all by himself in the goalsquare.


I think you're underrating Macrae just a bit. He's better than both Dunkley and Smith right now and he still has a lot of good footy in front of him. Smith will be a great player for us but is he really better than Macrae right now?

Macrae is quality but Smith is a more rounded player. If they were standing against the wall in the playground I'd go with Baz everytime.

You have to give a bit to get a bit and while I'd want Brisbane to sweeten the deal with a decent draft pick I'd do the deal if Macrae was OK with it. Cameron brings us something we don't have whereas pretty soon Macrae will be third in line, maybe even fourth, in the role he plays.

[jeemak]

Jacko should be a dual All Australian by now, teams put a lot of work into him weekly and he still menaces them with earning the hard ball, and being creative both by hand and by foot. I love what Baz could bring to the table in the future but we don't know whether he can reach Jacko's level, then do it consistently, and deliver what Jacko did in a GF where many close watchers think he should have won the Norm Smith.

Seemingly still underrated by some, Jack has put together unbelievably consistent and creative football over many years now and I think he is the type of player you really miss when he's not there. I'm not saying Baz can't be that player, and I'm extremely excited to see what he can do, but once he's dealing with the week to week grind and pressure Jack does at the coal face we can then judge in my view.

We don't need a Cameron to win a flag, and I wouldn't give up Jack to test the hypothesis. I'd prefer to not give up Dunkley either, but if I had to choose.....

[bornadog]

Jacko should be a dual All Australian by now, teams put a lot of work into him weekly and he still menaces them with earning the hard ball, and being creative both by hand and by foot. I love what Baz could bring to the table in the future but we don't know whether he can reach Jacko's level, then do it consistently, and deliver what Jacko did in a GF where many close watchers think he should have won the Norm Smith.

Seemingly still underrated by some, Jack has put together unbelievably consistent and creative football over many years now and I think he is the type of player you really miss when he's not there. I'm not saying Baz can't be that player, and I'm extremely excited to see what he can do, but once he's dealing with the week to week grind and pressure Jack does at the coal face we can then judge in my view.

We don't need a Cameron to win a flag, and I wouldn't give up Jack to test the hypothesis. I'd prefer to not give up Dunkley either, but if I had to choose.....

Totally agree, Macrae is a hard working mid that is not appreciated, and now it seems by our own supporters.

[jeemak]

Totally agree, Macrae is a hard working mid that is not appreciated, and now it seems by our own supporters.

I think he's definitely appreciated, it's just possible he's a touch underappreciated and what Baz has shown is really exciting.

[josie]

Sorry - I thought we were taking about gws Cameron (Yuk including that horrible moustache). Charlie Cameron is a great player but I think I would want to keep Bailey Smith if I had to choose. I think he is going to be Dangerfield/Dusty level good.

Agree Bont, Naughton and B Smith are at present our untouchables. If we keep them all for 5 or more years I reckon we can win another flag - maybe two.

[Twodogs]

I think he's definitely appreciated, it's just possible he's a touch underappreciated and what Baz has shown is really exciting.

Yep, this. Maybe Macrae realising he is third in line and that could even go back to fourth depending on Dunkley's development would be pragmatic enough to want to go elsewhere. Then again maybe he's the type that is happy not to be the main man.

Going to another club isn't the end of the world. When I was a kid a couple of times local cricket clubs came knocking on the door to talk to the old man wanting to know whether I'd be interested in changing clubs. I said yes once and I said no once because I was happy where I was. But it was nice to know that other clubs were interested.

[jeemak]

Yep, this. Maybe Macrae realising he is third in line and that could even go back to fourth depending on Dunkley's development would be pragmatic enough to want to go elsewhere. Then again maybe he's the type that is happy not to be the main man.

Going to another club isn't the end of the world. When I was a kid a couple of times local cricket clubs came knocking on the door to talk to the old man wanting to know whether I'd be interested in changing clubs. I said yes once and I said no once because I was happy where I was. But it was nice to know that other clubs were interested.

That's not my point at all.

I don't think Dunkley will ever surpass Jack. I think Baz will have to work his arse off to get to Jack's level and stay there. He's a fair bit off it, although, he's taking the right steps to get there.

The point of what I was saying is that Jacko is a freak and it's only because we have Bont that we underappreciate him. There's only a handful of spots for players of his type in the league that can fit in an AA side and he's done it once and should have done it twice (apparently Shane Edwards had a better season in 2018). Even Bont has only ever done it twice.

He's also completely unique in the way that he plays, there's no other player in the league who can hit targets by hand and foot the way he does on both sides when he's on song. A midfield of quality contains players of differing attributes, what Jack brings can't be replicated by anyone on our list let alone anyone in the league, and it delivers unbelievable value. Dunkley is a freak in his own right but doesn't come close to Jack.

Again, if Baz gets to his level of influence then great, but have some respect for the body of work Jack has put in over time.

[Mofra]

Jacko should be a dual All Australian by now, teams put a lot of work into him weekly and he still menaces them with earning the hard ball, and being creative both by hand and by foot. I love what Baz could bring to the table in the future but we don't know whether he can reach Jacko's level, then do it consistently, and deliver what Jacko did in a GF where many close watchers think he should have won the Norm Smith.
Wasn't Macrae the no 1 midfielder in the competition for assists last year?
He also leads the club from scores per inside 50 entries. It's an interesting stat as some suggest his footskills aren't that much of a weapon, but the stats say otherwise.

[Bulldog Joe]

Wasn't Macrae the no 1 midfielder in the competition for assists last year?
He also leads the club from scores per inside 50 entries. It's an interesting stat as some suggest his footskills aren't that much of a weapon, but the stats say otherwise.

Macrae is on my no trade list, although I do have some concerns that he does not contribute on our really bad days and I wonder if he doesn't always embrace the team ethic.

However, if we needed to trade out one of our regulars for the right talent, I would start my offer with Caleb Daniel.

[1eyedog]

Macrae is on my no trade list, although I do have some concerns that he does not contribute on our really bad days and I wonder if he doesn't always embrace the team ethic.

However, if we needed to trade out one of our regulars for the right talent, I would start my offer with Caleb Daniel.

Oh wow ok I wouldn't be going there personally what a jet. He'd be my next keeper after Bont and Naughts. He's so influential when he's playing well, such a marvellous footy brain will be as good as Sam Mitchell when he's 25. I guess that means he has collateral to some.

I'd be devo if we traded him.

[westbulldog]

Macrae is AA and elite. Smith is an exciting prospect. Anyone thinking about trading them for C Cameron or anyone else is on another planet even in another galaxy imo.

[Bulldog Joe]

Oh wow ok I wouldn't be going there personally what a jet. He'd be my next keeper after Bont and Naughts. He's so influential when he's playing well, such a marvellous footy brain will be as good as Sam Mitchell when he's 25. I guess that means he has collateral to some.

I'd be devo if we traded him.

I guess it does show that everyone sees things from a different perspective.

In my view Caleb is too easily exposed despite his attributes.

[1eyedog]

I guess it does show that everyone sees things from a different perspective.

In my view Caleb is too easily exposed despite his attributes.

Exposed how? You mean how Bevo plays him or a deficiency in his skill set?

[Bulldog Joe]

Exposed how? You mean how Bevo plays him or a deficiency in his skill set?

Well, I don't want this to be a discussion on Caleb and perhaps it would be better moved to a thread dedicated to him.

He gets by on footy nous, but he does have deficiencies.

The way Bevo is playing him uses his strengths but he could be easily exposed in a mismatch if the opposition coach decided that was a viable tactic.

[1eyedog]

All good just asking questions because you put his name up. I'll move on.

[jeemak]

Well, I don't want this to be a discussion on Caleb and perhaps it would be better moved to a thread dedicated to him.

He gets by on footy nous, but he does have deficiencies.

The way Bevo is playing him uses his strengths but he could be easily exposed in a mismatch if the opposition coach decided that was a viable tactic.

But I think that's the point, it's not viable to try and run a forward system to isolate one defencive player in lieu of defences relying less on one on one defending.

Caleb's an elite runner with excellent skills. We're playing him where we think he adds the most value for now, though he can play further up the ground.

Now would I trade him for Cameron? Possibly, though Caleb's just about to turn 24 and has some more improvement in him.

[Twodogs]

That's not my point at all.

I don't think Dunkley will ever surpass Jack. I think Baz will have to work his arse off to get to Jack's level and stay there. He's a fair bit off it, although, he's taking the right steps to get there.

The point of what I was saying is that Jacko is a freak and it's only because we have Bont that we underappreciate him. There's only a handful of spots for players of his type in the league that can fit in an AA side and he's done it once and should have done it twice (apparently Shane Edwards had a better season in 2018). Even Bont has only ever done it twice.

He's also completely unique in the way that he plays, there's no other player in the league who can hit targets by hand and foot the way he does on both sides when he's on song. A midfield of quality contains players of differing attributes, what Jack brings can't be replicated by anyone on our list let alone anyone in the league, and it delivers unbelievable value. Dunkley is a freak in his own right but doesn't come close to Jack.

Again, if Baz gets to his level of influence then great, but have some respect for the body of work Jack has put in over time.

Fair enough. Jack annoys me with his refusal to have a shot at goal sometimes.

What if Macrae has already hit his (admittedly high) ceiling? Personally I think that Baz will go past him on a couple of different aspects of his game. Goalkicking, running bounces, leadership.

BTW I'm not advocating that we run Jack out of town but if we want quality players from other clubs then offering them a half back flanker or a couple of ordinary players isn't going to get the job done-itd be awesome if it did but it just won't. We aren't going to be flush with draft picks in the next couple of years. Trading out a quality player solves a couple of those problems.

Leon Cameron made us look like fools at Richmond in the first couple of years after we traded him there. When I heard what we'd got I was ropable that we had traded out a club leader and star like that but I don't think you will find anyone who will say that we lost out on that trade these days

[GVGjr]

Fair enough. Jack annoys me with his refusal to have a shot at goal sometimes.

What if Macrae has already hit his (admittedly high) ceiling? Personally I think that Baz will go past him on a couple of different aspects of his game. Goalkicking, running bounces, leadership.

While Macrae has limitations especially around goal kicking I believe that right now he is a better player than both Dunks and Smith. This doesn't mean Smith won't be a better footballer in the near future but I'm talking about right now.

I think the performances of Macrae occasionally slips under the radar with some supporters