What are we lacking? What do we need most to progress in 2021?

[The Bulldogs Bite]

What are we lacking to take the next step into being a credible contender?

The midfield group on paper looks strong with the likes of Bont, Smith, Macrae, Dunkley, Hunter, Libba etc. We could do with another genuine winger but it's rare to have all bases covered.

The forward group on paper has ability/structure with the likes of Naughton and Bruce as our two keys. We've got some mid sized types who are inconsistent but dangerous in Dale/Lloyd (Dickson soon to retire) and then some untried smalls (Cavarra and Weightman). We're just as likely to 'click' in a game and kick 20 goals as we are to be stifled and kick 5. The ability to lock down the opposition through pressure is a key ingredient missing - maybe Weightman is the small we need. You could argue we need another strong marking medium (Dale/Lloyd/Dickson/Schache are all leading forwards).

The defensive group on paper is an area of concern. Keath is a good pick-up but better suited to being the second tall/CHB, JT/Young are not seen as options at this point. Wood and Duryea can be important senior pillars but have injury concerns to get through a season, Crozier is probably our best defender, JJ is a threat but can be shut down. Williams has been a welcome addition and likely top 10 in our B&F to date.

Ruck stocks are thin as we know. English is great around the ground but struggles in the ruck, Sweet is raw and that's all we've got.

Most sides, as good as they are, will still have 'holes'. It's impossible to fill every hole .....

BUT, what do we need most to progress in 2021 and beyond?

[comrade]

Naughton into defence.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Naughton into defence.

How would you juggle Young and Schache - do they fit into the side in any way?

[Mofra]

A genuine wingman to partner with Hunter.

As an aside, Lake is the only KPP in the last 30 years to win the Norm Smith. I think we can cobble together a defence as we did in 16, but the team that out-runs the other team generally wins.

[comrade]

How would you juggle Young and Schache - do they fit into the side in any way?

I would play Naughton in defence, Schache forward and Young as someone who can play as more of a utility who can go forward or back or chop out in the ruck.

My ideal side is something like:

FB: Daniel Naughton Crozier
HB: JJ Keath Cordy
C: Richards Dunkley Hunter
HF: West Schache Libba
FF: Cavarra Bruce Wallis
R: English Bont Macrae

And interchange from Weightman, Lipinski, McLean, Dale, Young, Butler, Vandermeer or Hayes with a focus on running ability

[Sedat]

I have said before that we lack midfield depth, even though everyone seems to (incorrectly) think we have depth in spades. Talented and deep midfields win premierships in the modern game, so I'd love to add some more elite talent to the mix. Bailey Smith had been a godsend for our midfield and I hope we can add another couple more high quality pieces of the puzzle.

[comrade]

I have said before that we lack midfield depth, even though everyone seems to (incorrectly) think we have depth in spades. Talented and deep midfield win premiership in the modern game, so I'd love to add to the mix with some.more wlite talent there. Bailey Smith had been a godsend for our midfield and I hope we can add another couple more high quality pieces of the puzzle.

A fit Libba and a developing West will be a big factor in our success over the next few years.

[The Doctor]

I said it last year and I'll say it again

small/medium goal kicking forwards.

A ruckman

A bit of grunt

[Sedat]

A fit Libba and a developing West will be a big factor in our success over the next few years.
Yep, really liked what I saw of West last week in and around the contest. He looked very comfortable and capable.

[Mofra]

Yep, really liked what I saw of West last week in and around the contest. He looked very comfortable and capable.
Very good by hand. Dare I say it - West like.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I said it last year and I'll say it again

small/medium goal kicking forwards.

A ruckman

A bit of grunt

What do you make of our current small/medium forwards Doc?

[mjp]

I said it last year and I'll say it again

small/medium goal kicking forwards.

A ruckman

A bit of grunt
I’ll go with:

- a plan for the ruck when English is being smashed and the willingness to follow said plan.
- some consistent grit and an ability to play a solid game when things aren’t going all our way.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I’ll go with:

- a plan for the ruck when English is being smashed and the willingness to follow said plan.
- some consistent grit and an ability to play a solid game when things aren’t going all our way.

MJP, do you think our personnel is good enough to challenge and it's a matter of tinkering as you've noted above, or is it a combination of both?

[bornadog]

I have said before that we lack midfield depth, even though everyone seems to (incorrectly) think we have depth in spades. Talented and deep midfields win premierships in the modern game, so I'd love to add some more elite talent to the mix. Bailey Smith had been a godsend for our midfield and I hope we can add another couple more high quality pieces of the puzzle.

I agree, mids win games and I think until the babies grow up a bit, I would love a Josh Kelly type. Someone with speed and outside run.

[Twice Bitten]

I would play Naughton in defence, Schache forward and Young as someone who can play as more of a utility who can go forward or back or chop out in the ruck.

My ideal side is something like:

FB: Daniel Naughton Crozier
HB: JJ Keath Cordy
C: Richards Dunkley Hunter
HF: West Schache Libba
FF: Cavarra Bruce Wallis
R: English Bont Macrae

And interchange from Weightman, Lipinski, McLean, Dale, Young, Butler, Vandermeer or Hayes with a focus on running ability


Your ideal side does not contain Bailey Smith ??????

[1eyedog]

Your ideal side does not contain Bailey Smith ??????

A Dusty / Danger protege! ;)

[comrade]

Damn, I knew I missed someone.

[bornadog]

Damn, I knew I missed someone.

You traded him :D

[Bumper Bulldogs]

I recon we need a hard as nails winger like a Mitch Robertson, then a hard as nails back flanker like a Luke Hodge (replace JJ).

I think with our list and the likes we are committed to in the upcoming draft. We just need two big bodies that can dish it out and do t take a backward step.

I think the recruiters have filled the holes and that gives time fir the pups to blossom so we are in good shape, I would think we could lose some depth players at years end like Wood and Trengrove

[bornadog]

I recon we need a hard as nails winger like a Mitch Robertson, then a hard as nails back flanker like a Luke Hodge (replace JJ).

I think with our list and the likes we are committed to in the upcoming draft. We just need two big bodies that can dish it out and do t take a backward step.

I think the recruiters have filled the holes and that gives time fir the pups to blossom so we are in good shape, I would think we could lose some depth players at years end like Wood and Trengrove

Talking about HBF, Williams is getting quite solid now and I would almost put him in the tough as nails class. As he matures he will get stronger.

[comrade]

Talking about HBF, Williams is getting quite solid now and I would almost put him in the tough as nails class. As he matures he will get stronger.

Lol there's another one I missed.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Lol there's another one I missed.

Just goes to show we run deep, if they keep these guys together over the 2 and 3 years we will be a Powerhouse

[DOG GOD]

I’m also in the minority about moving Naughton to defence. Other than the “odd game” he hasnt ’t shown any sort of consistancy with his marking or kicking ability. Yes he took “X” amount of marks and goals against Richmond. The MC obviously has an issue with Schache, and this alone will keep Naughton in the fwd line.

But yes, we need a tough, runner for the wing (Kelly would be fantastic), another strong ruckman, and 2 strong marking mid fwds who are dead eye dicks at the goals.

[The Doctor]

What do you make of our current small/medium forwards Doc?

It lacks star power.

I don't see a Cameron, Betts, Papley standard player or potential player on our list at present. We have good players but I doubt they would cause opposition coaches too many nightmares.

Here is the form of our small/medium forwards over the last 5 games incl the elimination final last year;

Bailey Dale: 2 goals

Sam Lloyd: 2 goals

Tory Dickson: 0 goals

Mitch Wallis: 3 goals

Rhylee West: 1 goal

Ben Cavarra: 1 goal

Laitham Vandermeer: 2 goals

Fergus Greene: 0 goals

Cory Weightman: 0 goals

Ed Richards: 3 goals

Pat Lipinski: 0 goals

Toby McLean: 1 goal


We have played some good teams in those 5 games but the output of our smaller forwards is disappointing to say the least. I acknowledge that some of these players are capable of higher production but consistency is an issue. We lack a bit of creativity up forward and don't really have any goal conjurors. I still think Dickson is our best but he is constantly injured and in all likelihood in his last season.

[GVGjr]

Damn, I knew I missed someone.

That's a bad miss...drop and give us 50 :)

[kruder]

Libba, Picken, M.Boyd( off HB), and Morris are the 4 players we have missed the most since the Premiership.

Whether its grunt, leadership, that Bulldog spirit it's hard to describe but they are just not easy to replace. You can tell the boys are walking a little taller with Libba back in( Got to love him and his father :)).

Someone said it above and I never thought I'd say it, but a Mitch Robinson type agree would be handy for this group.

They are only young but I think West and Vandermeer have shown some signs recently that they might have some of these attributes which the group really needs. I actually think Jongy has it in spades also would love to see him get a decent run of luck. Naughty with his straight lines at Whitfield and even his attack on the footy when he injured himself against Sydney is another example.

Mitch Wallis could/should be in that group but for mine, he just gets too comfortable with where he is at I've always thought he thinks he is better than he is. A Mitch Wallis who plays on edge week to week is absolutely valuable I just hope he realizes what he needs to bring before its too late.

Caleb should be moved to the wing and replaced by La Young who I think could be even more effective than Wood with his disposal off half-back. He also adds that ability to come across and help out the key defenders like Williams and Crozier currently do.

Outside of that, I'd love to replace Loyd( is not the answer forward) with Papley ideally. I've never seen Cody play let's hope he is more rounded than Lloyd.

Oh and one more thing. Bevo needs to work out what his best side is, we can't be going into 2021 and start again searching for our best side.

[1eyedog]

I’m also in the minority about moving Naughton to defence. Other than the “odd game” he hasnt ’t shown any sort of consistancy with his marking or kicking ability. Yes he took “X” amount of marks and goals against Richmond. The MC obviously has an issue with Schache, and this alone will keep Naughton in the fwd line.

But yes, we need a tough, runner for the wing (Kelly would be fantastic), another strong ruckman, and 2 strong marking mid fwds who are dead eye dicks at the goals.

I thought he was the spark as a forward in the first 15 minutes against the Swans.

On Mitch he's all set up as an enforcer, the genes, the guns, the wild eyes and hair but (while he's fearless), he unfortunately doesn't have the killer instinct his Dad did.

[jeemak]

I would play Naughton in defence, Schache forward and Young as someone who can play as more of a utility who can go forward or back or chop out in the ruck.

My ideal side is something like:

FB: Daniel Naughton Crozier
HB: JJ Keath Cordy
C: Richards Dunkley Hunter
HF: West Schache Libba
FF: Cavarra Bruce Wallis
R: English Bont Macrae

And interchange from Weightman, Lipinski, McLean, Dale, Young, Butler, Vandermeer or Hayes with a focus on running ability

Smith, Wood and Williams all say hi! However, whilst you have omitted Smith and Williams by accident I doubt this is the case with Wood and it's my view that's a touch premature, however I'm also on record as saying I want Naughton in defence so perhaps with him there the importance of Wood diminishes.

To the OP, I actually think we have enough quality to match it with anyone if everyone is fit. To Sedat's point we're probably a little lean in the midfield if anywhere, though I think with Baz's improvement to date, the reintroduction of Libba and McLean playing good footy we have cover. Add in West and we have pretty solid rotations with even Wallis an occasional back up.

Getting the combinations of complementary players and the chemistry right is a big factor, as is what's going on between the ears of the players week to week.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Cody Weightman at his full potential.

[hujsh]

Cody at his full potential.

Not only did I read that as Cordy I for some reason thought of Ayce

[josie]

Sorry if it's been said - Tim to improve his ruck craft. Fantastic he has blossomed around the ground play, however his ruck work is still a major flaw for us. Also think we need Lewis Young to blossom too, as I reckon we are a bit light on in backline for talls. God help us if Cordy or Keith go down seeing as Trenners is on the outer.

I reckon West & Weightman will help fill that small forward role soon and I'm still hoping Green gets another go and can remain off the injury list.

[Twodogs]

Not only did I read that as Cordy I for some reason thought of Ayce

Being as we are locked down I've been reading a heap of footy books.* Earlier this week at Highpoint I picked up a book about F/S players at different clubs through the years. There isn't one for each club but there is a bulldog combination. It's not the Whittens or the Liberatores or even the Wallaces

It's the Cordys. It is an interesting lens to tell the premiership story through though. Brian plays 144 (I think) games with one finals series, Ayce plays 27 games and no finals, Zaine's 13th game is a winning grand final.



*Seeing as you asked On The Take the story of the 1910 Carlton bribery scandal has been far and away the best so far.

[FrediKanoute]

I would play Naughton in defence, Schache forward and Young as someone who can play as more of a utility who can go forward or back or chop out in the ruck.

My ideal side is something like:

FB: Daniel Naughton Crozier
HB: JJ Keath Cordy
C: Richards Dunkley Hunter
HF: West Schache Libba
FF: Cavarra Bruce Wallis
R: English Bont Macrae

And interchange from Weightman, Lipinski, McLean, Dale, Young, Butler, Vandermeer or Hayes with a focus on running ability

I don't see how Cavarra gets a game ahead of any of the guys on the bench. Dale has him covered and he wouldn't make my bench with a fully fit team. I think you have to fit Wood into the team somehow.

My bench is Wood, Lipinski, McLean and Vandermeir.......Jong unlucky, Lou Young if one of the other guys falls over.

To answer the question posed by the OP, as to what we need to progress.....the team to get lucky with injuries. If we have this 27 players available come Sept (or whenever it is) then we will go deep into Sept.

[GVGjr]

An emerging tall defender who can run would bolster our defensive stocks

A midfielder who can switch between uncompromising defensive duties and attacking roles

A back-up ruckman/tall forward

[The Doctor]

An emerging tall defender who can run would bolster our defensive stocks


It has been mentioned in this forum before and I agree Noah Balta would be a good fit.



A midfielder who can switch between uncompromising defensive duties and attacking roles

Could that player be Toby McLean?



A back-up ruckman/tall forward

Trengove? Does the arrival of Jamarra next year allow us to use Schache this way? I hope not.

I would like to see another genuine bullocking ruckman on the list

[GVGjr]

It has been mentioned in this forum before and I agree Noah Balta would be a good fit.


Could that player be Toby McLean?



Trengove? Does the arrival of Jamarra next year allow us to use Schache this way? I hope not.

I would like to see another genuine bullocking ruckman on the list

I can't see us using Trengove much going forward and if that is the case we need to find someone capable of filling a couple of roles

Regarding Ugle-Hagan, he will arrive at our club without the benefit of a season of TAC footy behind him and I think we will need to be more patient with him throughout 2021 and perhaps 2022

McLean is an interesting proposition, I still rate his attacking abilities and I'm not convinced yet on his ability to shut out opponents week after week. We might know more about this later in the year if Bevo uses him that way

Re Balta, the fact that we seem to prefer KP players from other clubs might make him a target but I suspect Richmond will begin realise he's very much a required player. He hasn't done much from what I have seen

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Still think we could do with a quick, high pressure crumbing forward. Weightman seems more of an Elliott marking type, not sure Cavarra is good enough/has enough tricks.

Bruce and Naughton will rarely be outmarked but there's nobody who is a natural crumber. Dale/Schache/Dickson/Lloyd/Gowers are all better leading up at the footy and none of them are quick by mind in tight situations.

I know finding a Charlie Cameron isn't exactly an easy task, but surely finding a dangerous small forward is one of the easier things to do via the draft.

[Mitcha]

Just on Balta, just because you are big does not make you good. Know people that dealt with him in pathways programs and he was a man child but they wondered if there was any development left in him. Thought he knew it all and by all accounts thinks he is it and a bit, it's a solid no from me.

[Happy Days]

The same Balta that threw a tantrum after Naughton took his 9th contested mark on him? No thanks

He's obviously an outstanding athlete but seems to have a total lack of game sense or footballing nous. Don't see what makes him any better or different than Lewis Young, who we already have and can't get a game.

[Axe Man]

I haven't seen enough of Balta to make an informed call but apparently played well yesterday, 20 possessions, 8 marks and 409 metres gained is impressive for a KPD - even against the rabble that is the Melbourne forward line.

[bornadog]

I haven't seen enough of Balta to make an informed call but apparently played well yesterday, 20 possessions, 8 marks and 409 metres gained is impressive for a KPD - even against the rabble that is the Melbourne forward line.

Melbourne don't really have a big forward. I am with HD, a pass for me

[Ozza]

Personally, I don't at all agree with Naughton going to defence. It is so hard to find players with Naughton's attributes to take contested marks forward. And we've seen how important it is to have a big presence to compete in the forward line in big games against the big teams. The defensive set up is in pretty good shape at the minute, and my preference is to have talented players in the front half.

[FrediKanoute]

The same Balta that threw a tantrum after Naughton took his 9th contested mark on him? No thanks

He's obviously an outstanding athlete but seems to have a total lack of game sense or footballing nous. Don't see what makes him any better or different than Lewis Young, who we already have and can't get a game.

I agree. We already have an emerging tall - need patience and for him to take the opportunities that are presented

[jeemak]

Personally, I don't at all agree with Naughton going to defence. It is so hard to find players with Naughton's attributes to take contested marks forward. And we've seen how important it is to have a big presence to compete in the forward line in big games against the big teams. The defensive set up is in pretty good shape at the minute, and my preference is to have talented players in the front half.

I have been advocating Naughton to play in defence, however, seeing how the backline functioned against albeit out of form or incompetent opposition on the weekend has possibly tempered that.

Let's see how our defence goes over the next few weeks, and again, how our forward line functions over the same time. Against decent opposition I fear things may be stretched a bit and it's also rare that we keep everyone on the park at the same time anyway so flexibility is important.