WB Game Day V Brisbane Lions R11 2020

[Grantysghost]

All night. They just walk it out of stoppages. That’s not talent. That’s lack of application from us. We have had a terrible night around the ball.

Yes this is so right. Our defensive work at stoppages is awful. Tigers did the same, quality exits. The stats don't show that. Clearances head to head but not effective clearances for eg.

[ReLoad]

Loving Vandas year

A big highlight.

[angelopetraglia]

Wallis. Reinvented himself. So good to see. Thought he was almost done. Superb this year.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

It’s a bit sad when a 1st year player is one of your best. Good signs though for Vander. Hopefully we don’t send him into negative development

[Sedat]

Loving Vandas year
His footy IQ is above average

[Grantysghost]

Love Wally bulldog royalty.

[GVGjr]

Geez Wallis works his guts out

Yep, he's got his limitations but he's worked out way of being effective

[Eastdog]

It’s a bit sad when a 1st year player is one of your best. Good signs though for Vander. Hopefully we don’t send him into negative development

Vandameer been decent in the 2nd half

[bulldogsthru&thru]

That is such a soft tackle effort from McLean and typical of our efforts all night.

[Sedat]

Bailey Williams has had a poor night to put it mildly

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Oh English. Just awful mate

[Topdog]

It's always us that do those kicks that miss by 15m

[Mantis]

Vandameer been decent in the 2nd half

Yep.. moved him up onto a wing and he’s done some really nice things.

[Sedat]

That forward pressure by Brisbane just then is what we never do

[Mantis]

That is such a soft tackle effort from McLean and typical of our efforts all night.

He’s been horrible... sick of him giving ‘half’ efforts.

Time to try others if thus is what we’re going to get from him.

[Topdog]

Vandameer been decent in the 2nd half

Yeah decent 2nd half, not close to our best

[Grantysghost]

I think the matchup we've all been waiting for Eagles v Gardner is happening. Woweeee.

[Eastdog]

Macrae 40 disposals great effort!!

[The Pie Man]

Happy for anyone to argue this vigorously ... Macrae’s been huge, but if you don’t think he kicks too high/slow in the air to our forwards (often outsized contests) you’re kidding yourself

[jeemak]

Bruce just doesn't get free kicks.

[jeemak]

Happy for anyone to argue this vigorously ... Macrae’s been huge, but if you don’t think he kicks too high/slow in the air to our forwards (often outsized contests) you’re kidding yourself

Agree he does sometimes and doesn't other times.

I've never seen a player with such inconsistent penetration in long kicking.

[Mantis]

Happy for anyone to argue this vigorously ... Macrae’s been huge, but if you don’t think he kicks too high/slow in the air to our forwards (often outsized contests) you’re kidding yourself

The kick to Wallis case in point... why didn’t he give it to Bont who was riding shotgun?

[Eastdog]

Yeah decent 2nd half, not close to our best

Just starting out Vander. Can’t be too hard on him.

[Rance Fan]

Lucky Lions put the cue in the rack in the last.

[KT31]

A plus is I feel we have fought it out Tonight and not capitulated.

[Mantis]

Josh Dunkley has some good traits... but *!*!*!*! me, he’s lucky to hit his foot more times than not.

[Grantysghost]

Happy for anyone to argue this vigorously ... Macrae’s been huge, but if you don’t think he kicks too high/slow in the air to our forwards (often outsized contests) you’re kidding yourself

He's an elite inside mid. Like Josh Kennedy of the Swans who is an all time great. Yes yes he maybe isn't the Darren Jarman of kicks but at the moment he's our best player.

[The Pie Man]

Dunkley no distance from 40 out is not league standard

[comrade]

A plus is I feel we have fought it out Tonight and not capitulated.

Lions put the cue in the rack.

[G-Mo77]

A plus is I feel we have fought it out Tonight and not capitulated.

Lions players shut up shop.

[angelopetraglia]

We lost this game in a torrent of conceded goals (Including three without us touching the ball in two minutes). However it a consistent trend. When we have the ascendency (not so much tonight) we don’t hurt teams. When teams have the ascendency against us, we capitulate.

[chef]

A plus is I feel we have fought it out Tonight and not capitulated.

Yeah we had a real crack. We just arent good enough yet.

Go Dogs.

[whythelongface]

A plus is I feel we have fought it out Tonight and not capitulated.

That is about the only positive but still Brisbane coasted for the 2nd half. Once a team gets a decent lead they shut up shop and conserve as much energy as possible given the nature of this year’s Comp.

[Grantysghost]

In any other season playing two top four interstate teams on their home ground and getting these results maybe more palletable? Trying to find some balance.
I'd back us against Port and Lions at Marvel.

[KT31]

Lions put the cue in the rack.


Lions players shut up shop.

We had a fair crack and showed more endeavour in the 3rd and early last, well prior to cue in the rack.
Previous weeks this would have been a 50 hiding.

[The Underdog]

Josh Dunkley has some good traits... but *!*!*!*! me, he’s lucky to hit his foot more times than not.

He was awful tonight. Just a complete non factor.

[merantau]

We have very poor skills and unless there is a miracle our season is done. The scoreboard flattered us. They were an 8-goal better side.

[whythelongface]

Yeah we had a real crack. We just arent good enough yet.

Go Dogs.

I feel that there are signs of a good team with a good core of young players. We need some complimentary players. Really need our mids to step up.

[Scraggers]

Serious question - for those continually defending Bevo and the coaching group, how much longer do you give them?

Bevo? Forever and a day. Bevo can stay senior coach as long as he wants ... BUT he must have a senior assistant with senior coach experience. Look to get Woosha or Ross Lyon or someone of that level who brings experience and an outside set of eyes.

[whythelongface]

We have very poor skills and unless there is a miracle our season is done. The scoreboard flattered us. They were an 8-goal better side.

Our season is done unfortunately. Time to move onto 2021. Long preseason

[Scraggers]

In any other season playing two top four interstate teams on their home ground and getting these results maybe more palletable? Trying to find some balance.
I'd back us against Port and Lions at Marvel.

I agree wholeheartedly, but I also had to walk away from the T.V. A couple of times tonight. So very frustrating

[Sedat]

Scoreboard flattered us tonight. That was as poor as all our other losses with the exception of Port.

The 'handball club' is obsolete. The top teams in the comp move it quickly, gain territory and then lock it in their forward half, whereas we are the opposite relying on precision delivery and 'attractive' goals. If we can't hit a target the ball trampolines out of our F50 with ridiculous ease.

[chef]

I feel that there are signs of a good team with a good core of young players. We need some complimentary players. Really need our mids to step up.

Yeah no doubt we arent good enough to challenge for the flag but we are a young work in progress and are heading in the right direction.

[whythelongface]

We had a fair crack and showed more endeavour in the 3rd and early last, well prior to cue in the rack.
Previous weeks this would have been a 50 hiding.

Nah cue was in the rack early in the 3rd once they got out to over 6 goals

[SonofScray]

Boys ran the game out. Credit there.

Time to clean out our coaching department. Either sack Bevo, or sack Grant, or sack King. Or Maple. Or Graham. Make a change FFS.

[DOG GOD]

Our game plan is just not going to cut it with the big boys.

[Grantysghost]

Scoreboard flattered us tonight. That was as poor as all our other losses with the exception of Port.

The 'handball club' is obsolete. The top teams in the comp move it quickly, gain territory and then lock it in their forward half, whereas we are the opposite relying on precision delivery and 'attractive' goals. If we can't hit a target the ball trampolines out of our F50 with ridiculous ease.

Died circa 2017

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Yeah Dunkley was awful tonight. Complete no show

[kruder]

Loving Bevo's move of Keath onto Hipwood in the last quarter. Talk about timely.

[Bulldog Revolution]

A plus is I feel we have fought it out Tonight and not capitulated.

Yep completely belted in the centre square in the second quarter - unacceptable - lifted in the second half thankfully

Some poor positioning and work rate at times tonight - overall too many passengers but some positive signs for some - always something to be achieved in a game of footy

[Sedat]

Died circa 2017
Bevo is nothing if not stubborn

[angelopetraglia]

As terrible as we were tonight. It’s easy to forget how weird this season is. They are living in their homes. Training in their normal environment. Playing on their home ground. It’s a massive advantage. We are like nomads. Without a home.

Even West Coast struggled with that. We should keep that that in mind as we judge the team and this year.

[whythelongface]

Yeah no doubt we arent good enough to challenge for the flag but we are a young work in progress and are heading in the right direction.

I reckon you are right. It takes 5 or 6 years to build a premiership list. We won 2016 literally out of nowhere which may have given us false hope for immediate sustained success. We have had a high turnover since then and it takes time to build up the list. Probably 2022 will be our next genuine tilt. I just hope some of the other teams don’t overtake us.

[whythelongface]

Yeah Dunkley was awful tonight. Complete no show

Both he and Naughton will take time to find form after their injuries. Due to the nature of the season they may not even be 100 %.

[jeemak]

In any other season playing two top four interstate teams on their home ground and getting these results maybe more palletable? Trying to find some balance.
I'd back us against Port and Lions at Marvel.

No mate, everything's normal!

Of course we'd do these teams at Marvel. We'd do almost anyone there if playing well.

To me this isn't one to melt down over, nobody thinks we're as good as Brisbane and we really shat the bed in the second quarter through people in our team who should be leading not leading.

[Sedat]

As terrible as we were tonight. It’s easy to forget how weird this season is. They are living in their homes. Training in their normal environment. Playing on their home ground. It’s a massive advantage. We are like nomads. Without a home.

Even West Coast struggled with that. We should keep that that in mind as we judge the team and this year.
St Kilda are nomads. So were Port for the first 6 weeks after the season re-started. Both teams coached well and clearly enjoying their footy.

[Sedat]

No mate, everything's normal!

Of course we'd do these teams at Marvel. We'd do almost anyone there if playing well.

To me this isn't one to melt down over, nobody thinks we're as good as Brisbane and we really shat the bed in the second quarter through people in our team who should be leading not leading.
Brisbane are a good side but you are giving us an out tonight. We were very poor at the source and thoroughly out-coached. Also, and frustratingly every single week, we are relying on far too much contribution from far too few players.

[comrade]

Yeah, the nomad stuff is BS. A good side, led strongly on and off field, wouldn’t turn their toes up the way we do on a regular basis.

[Rocket Science]

The bar's pretty low when we hang our hat on 'we fought it out' after the opposition switches off because the game was decided a quarter ago.

[Remi Moses]

Gee I’m worried if Ugle -Hagen doesn’t win the Coleman next year some here will want him delisted
Dunkley and Naughton are coming back from severe injuries
Get some perspective please

[Remi Moses]

Agree the nomad stuff is crap
Hasn’t affected some teams

[Eastdog]

Disappointing again tonight. It really was the 2nd quarter that was the difference in the game.

Q1 - 3.4 Lions to 3.1 Dogs
Q2 - 6.4 Lions to 2.1 Dogs
Q3 - 4.2 Lions 3.0 Dogs
Q4 - 1.2 Lions 3.4 Dogs

2nd half score 6.4 Dogs Lions 5.2 - scoreboard win 2nd half
1st half 9.4 Lions to 5.1 Dogs - clear scoreboard loss 1st half in particularly the last 10 minutes pf the 2nd quarter.

We need to be better at absorbing the pressure teams put on us when they start to lift a gear and just play 4 quarters.

[angelopetraglia]

Brisbane are a good side but you are giving us an out tonight. We were very poor at the source and thoroughly out-coached. Also, and frustratingly every single week, we are relying on far too much contribution from far too few players.

Lions relied on fewer. Clearances. Neale 12. Zorko 9. Lyon 8. ...... Ellis-Yolmen 2. We had a much more even contribution at the source but those three torched us.

[Grantysghost]

St Kilda are nomads. So were Port for the first 6 weeks after the season re-started. Both teams coached well and clearly enjoying their footy.

Their players that are lifting them, Ryder, Jones, Hill, Butler..
Give..Me..A ..Spell.. theyre all having career best moments at the same time. Unsustainable much.

Just needed to get that out there.

[The bulldog tragician]

As terrible as we were tonight. It’s easy to forget how weird this season is. They are living in their homes. Training in their normal environment. Playing on their home ground. It’s a massive advantage. We are like nomads. Without a home.

Even West Coast struggled with that. We should keep that that in mind as we judge the team and this year.

Thanks for that. I'm not starry eyed about where we are at. I had my head in hands as much as anyone with the mistakes and skill errors but this is a strange season and the weirdness possibly worse for a young group. This bank of games so close together has been tough, and those closest to premiership contention have risen to the top. Clearly that's not us.

I think our endeavour has been largely ok. We haven't had a lot of continuity with injuries - what might have been had Naughton not been injured. We could have done with Crozier tonight.

It's ok to feel despondent/frustrated even angry about how we played, I did too. We've got some players that aren't up to it. But there's a sort of malice creeping on here at Woof that I don't enjoy. Time for me to take a break from this forum I reckon.

[Mantis]

We’re just miles off being competitive against the really good teams.

- Our mids all run the one way... the balance in that group isn’t working.

- We don’t use the ball well enough by foot, especially given the lack of leg speed many of these players have.

- Our defenders struggle to beat their man.

- Our F50 pressure is as bad as anyone in the competition with no pace at all.

- Our 2-5 year players, in general are treading water.

- We have an extremely loyal coach who has blind faith in players who every decent judge knows aren’t up to this level.

[G-Mo77]

Boys ran the game out. Credit there.

Time to clean out our coaching department. Either sack Bevo, or sack Grant, or sack King. Or Maple. Or Graham. Make a change FFS.

Is there an option for a complete sweep? I've been on about new assistants for a while but the whole lot can go as far as I'm concerned.

Sam Power can wave his magic wand and select a whole new coaching team.

[1eyedog]

Bevo? Forever and a day. Bevo can stay senior coach as long as he wants ... BUT he must have a senior assistant with senior coach experience. Look to get Woosha or Ross Lyon or someone of that level who brings experience and an outside set of eyes.

Yeah no sense putting heat on Bevo even if we lose next week. It would fracture us a footy club we need to stick fat. I'm not sold on Hansen though.

[Grantysghost]

Thanks for that. I'm not starry eyed about where we are at. I had my head in hands as much as anyone with the mistakes and skill errors but this is a strange season and the weirdness possibly worse for a young group. This bank of games so close together has been tough, and those closest to premiership contention have risen to the top. Clearly that's not us.

I think our endeavour has been largely ok. We haven't had a lot of continuity with injuries - what might have been had Naughton not been injured. We could have done with Crozier tonight.

It's ok to feel despondent/frustrated even angry about how we played, I did too. We've got some players that aren't up to it. But there's a sort of malice creeping on here at Woof that I don't enjoy. Time for me to take a break from this forum I reckon.

Please don't really enjoy your posts.

[Stefcep]

Disappointing again tonight. It really was the 2nd quarter that was the difference in the game.

Q1 - 3.4 Lions to 3.1 Dogs
Q2 - 6.4 Lions to 2.1 Dogs
Q3 - 4.2 Lions 3.0 Dogs
Q4 - 1.2 Lions 3.4 Dogs

2nd half score 6.4 Dogs Lions 5.2 - scoreboard win 2nd half
1st half 9.4 Lions to 5.1 Dogs - clear scoreboard loss 1st half in particularly the last 10 minutes pf the 2nd quarter.

We need to be better at absorbing the pressure teams put on us when they start to lift a gear and just play 4 quarters.

The game was over at half time.

The pattern of what was to follow was there towards the end of the first qtr- second to the ball, tackles don't stick, fumbling, poor execution poor decision-making, multiple players going after the same ball and both spoiling each other.

We are so far off it its not funny.

[Grantysghost]

We’re just miles off being competitive against the really good teams.

- Our mids all run the one way... the balance in that group isn’t working.

- We don’t use the ball well enough by foot, especially given the lack of leg speed many of these players have.

- Our defenders struggle to beat their man.

- Our F50 pressure is as bad as anyone in the competition with no pace at all.

- Our 2-5 year players, in general are treading water.

- We have an extremely loyal coach who has blind faith in players who every decent judge knows aren’t up to this level.

Is our midfield over rated ? Bont and Macrae elite, Libba next tier ...Dunks for half of last year? Smith is a kid.

[Sedat]

We’re just miles off being competitive against the really good teams.

- Our mids all run the one way... the balance in that group isn’t working.

- We don’t use the ball well enough by foot, especially given the lack of leg speed many of these players have.

- Our defenders struggle to beat their man.

- Our F50 pressure is as bad as anyone in the competition with no pace at all.

- Our 2-5 year players, in general are treading water.

- We have an extremely loyal coach who has blind faith in players who every decent judge knows aren’t up to this level.
Perfect summation of our many and varied issues.

Our 2 best players by far tonight were Macrae and Bont - they combined for 27 kicks and 43 handballs. We aren't getting territory benefit for the amount or ball our key mids are generating - there is a serious connection problem between our mids and forwards.

[chef]

So just like last week one quarter costs us dearly. We arent that far away.

[jeemak]

Brisbane are a good side but you are giving us an out tonight. We were very poor at the source and thoroughly out-coached. Also, and frustratingly every single week, we are relying on far too much contribution from far too few players.

I'm interested in the out coached piece.

Agree whole heartedly we were beaten at the source. I just take the view that was a player issue.

I guess it comes back to this for me, all things being equal, did anyone seriously have us pegged as top four to six? Or, did you think we'd be somewhere around six to ten.....?

[Grantysghost]

So just like last week one quarter costs us dearly. We arent that far away.

Maybe just a Josh Kelly away.

[Remi Moses]

Thanks for that. I'm not starry eyed about where we are at. I had my head in hands as much as anyone with the mistakes and skill errors but this is a strange season and the weirdness possibly worse for a young group. This bank of games so close together has been tough, and those closest to premiership contention have risen to the top. Clearly that's not us.

I think our endeavour has been largely ok. We haven't had a lot of continuity with injuries - what might have been had Naughton not been injured. We could have done with Crozier tonight.

It's ok to feel despondent/frustrated even angry about how we played, I did too. We've got some players that aren't up to it. But there's a sort of malice creeping on here at Woof that I don't enjoy. Time for me to take a break from this forum I reckon.

Very well said
It’s getting toxic on here and it’s resembling the sewer which is Social media
Only have to look at who’s on top currently in keeping a coach when under the pump
Plus a side that’s won 2 flags in 3 years
Accusations that have no substance at all and none of us have NFI on what happens in the assistant coaching ranks

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I'm interested in the out coached piece.

Agree whole heartedly we were beaten at the source. I just take the view that was a player issue.

I guess it comes back to this for me, all things being equal, did anyone seriously have us pegged as top four to six? Or, did you think we'd be somewhere around six to ten.....?

We should have been aiming for top 6 absolutely and considering we went and got Bruce and Keath and targeted Martin, safe to say our coaching group had their sights set high too.

[1eyedog]

Thanks for that. I'm not starry eyed about where we are at. I had my head in hands as much as anyone with the mistakes and skill errors but this is a strange season and the weirdness possibly worse for a young group. This bank of games so close together has been tough, and those closest to premiership contention have risen to the top. Clearly that's not us.

I think our endeavour has been largely ok. We haven't had a lot of continuity with injuries - what might have been had Naughton not been injured. We could have done with Crozier tonight.

It's ok to feel despondent/frustrated even angry about how we played, I did too. We've got some players that aren't up to it. But there's a sort of malice creeping on here at Woof that I don't enjoy. Time for me to take a break from this forum I reckon.

Same for me mind you I may be a perpetrator and for that I apologise. I'm frustrated with our club, teaching the kids at home, working from home, lock down etc. and I'm a full time single Dad. It's hard to stay positive generally. Reckon I need a break also.

[Grantysghost]

I'm interested in the out coached piece.

Agree whole heartedly we were beaten at the source. I just take the view that was a player issue.

I guess it comes back to this for me, all things being equal, did anyone seriously have us pegged as top four to six? Or, did you think we'd be somewhere around six to ten.....?

I thought we maybe went a bit higher last season than where we were at. Probably 8-12 and we went the high side. This year with Keath and Bruce and more time into Naughton I wouldve expected 6-10 before Covid.

[angelopetraglia]

Lions 5-0 at the GABBA

[comrade]

I guess it comes back to this for me, all things being equal, did anyone seriously have us pegged as top four to six? Or, did you think we'd be somewhere around six to ten.....?

I don’t get your point. After making finals last year and offering big contracts to Bruce and Keath, are you suggesting the coaching group weren’t realistically gunning for a top 6 spot?

[Rance Fan]

English is to gentle in the ruck role. Hope he can find some mongrel in time.

[Grantysghost]

I don’t get your point. After making finals last year and offering big contracts to Bruce and Keath, are you suggesting the coaching group weren’t realistically gunning for a top 6 spot?

Where did you have us? I thought 6 to 10.

[GVGjr]

Bevo? Forever and a day. Bevo can stay senior coach as long as he wants ... BUT he must have a senior assistant with senior coach experience. Look to get Woosha or Ross Lyon or someone of that level who brings experience and an outside set of eyes.

I'm all for keeping Bevo but that "forever and a day" is just for the Seekers
He's got to make some adjustments but he is capable of that

[Remi Moses]

I thought bottom part of the eight
Just thought we needed a gorilla down back
Things can change quickly
Port Adelaide didn’t make the eight last year

[comrade]

Where did you have us? I thought 6 to 10.

I expected top 6, given our off season.

Massively overrated us.

[SonofScray]

I'm all for keeping Bevo but that "forever and a day" is just for the Seekers
He's got to make some adjustments but he is capable of that

Too many folk hold that belief.

[Remi Moses]

Perfect summation of our many and varied issues.

Our 2 best players by far tonight were Macrae and Bont - they combined for 27 kicks and 43 handballs. We aren't getting territory benefit for the amount or ball our key mids are generating - there is a serious connection problem between our mids and forwards.

Agree , but our issue was around the ball
They just had a better spread of ball winners
The connection still isn’t right though

[Hotdog60]

I think the biggest problem we have is that our star players are all one paced.
I think a few more games into Vanders and I would like to try him in the middle as an outside receiver.
Ed more than likely has kept his place because he has some pace but just doesn't make the most of he's disposal.
I didn't expect anything from Naughton but compete and to get some runs into the legs is good.
I think it's time to bring Sweet in ready or not to give Tim a hand.

[angelopetraglia]

Richards has two major weaknesses. He fumbles below his knees constantly. His kicking and decision making under pressure is suspect. The fumbling and not being super clean is something you can’t improve, it’s largely genetic and innate. He has enough attributes to carve out a career ... but I can’t see him ever being elite.

[Grantysghost]

I think the biggest problem we have is that our star players are all one paced.
I think a few more games into Vanders and I would like to try him in the middle as an outside receiver.
Ed more than likely has kept his place because he has some pace but just doesn't make the most of he's disposal.
I didn't expect anything from Naughton but compete and to get some runs into the legs is good.
I think it's time to bring Sweet in ready or not to give Tim a hand.

Yes I think Sweet needs a run. I thought he was really good in the pre season match against North and maybe a strong presence at stoppages.
Tim is still so raw.

[jeemak]

We should have been aiming for top 6 absolutely and considering we went and got Bruce and Keath and targeted Martin, safe to say our coaching group had their sights set high too.


I don’t get your point. After making finals last year and offering big contracts to Bruce and Keath, are you suggesting the coaching group weren’t realistically gunning for a top 6 spot?

I'm suggesting that we probably had our sites set around the five/ six to eight mark. We recruited those guys because we knew that we were short in defence with the loss of Morris and Naughton needed help given that Schache and Young weren't able to deliver consistently.

Going for Martin was a play to make us better and every team with the money to afford him was having a crack.

We've had Dunkley, Naughton and Hunter out, who are clearly top ten and we haven't had continuity with our best players and can't get the mix right with our second and third tier players.

For the latter pieces there's coaching, form, situation and other reasons attached to that. I guess what I'm saying is that perhaps we need to look at our side as one that is developing and isn't fully formed, which is why I don't understand the ferocity of the criticism aside from when players pick and choose to give effort consistently.

[Sedat]

Richards is probably the most frustrating player in our team at the moment. Clearly he works extremely hard both ways - I admire the defensive support he provides our back 6 - but he doesn't benefit us anywhere near enough when the ball is in his hands. He continuously butchers the ball by foot in uncontested situations and it is frustrating to say the least. I compare him to someone like Karl Amon, who is a very potent weapon inside 50 by foot as a wingman

[Eastdog]

https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/792027/lions-inflict-bulldogs-third-straight-loss


Lions inflict Bulldogs’ third straight loss
The Bulldogs have fallen to the Brisbane Lions by 24-points at the Gabba , with Jack Macrae collecting a season high 40-disposals.


The Western Bulldogs have recorded their third straight loss, a 24-point defeat against the Brisbane Lions at the Gabba.

The Bulldogs have come up empty-handed from a mid-season stretch against three of the competition’s 2020 premiership chances – Richmond, Port Adelaide and Brisbane.

On Saturday night, a period of dominance from the Lions late in the second quarter set up a match-winning lead, as it did in the third quarter of the previous match against the Power.

The Bulldogs fought the game out well, outscoring the Lions in the second half, but they never got close enough to seriously challenge for victory.

Eric Hipwood booted five goals for the winners, who dominated the clearance battle for large periods of the match.

Jack Macrae’s ball-winning purple patch continued, with the hard-working midfielder collecting a game-high 40 disposals and delivering the ball inside 50 on seven occasions.

It was the ninth time in his career Macrae has recorded 40 or more disposals, a feat even more meritorious against the Lions given the shortened AFL game time in 2020.

Skipper Marcus Bontempelli (30 possessions, six clearances and five inside 50s) did his best to drag the Bulldogs back into the contest, while Easton Wood kept the dangerous Charlie Cameron goalless.

Mitch Wallis booted three goals for the third time this season, to take his tally to 16 goals for the year.

In the end, it was the clearance work of the Lions’ midfielders in the all-important middle section of the game which was the difference, with Lachie Neale (36 disposals), Dayne Zorko and Jarryd Lyons combining for 29 clearances.

After an even start to the game, back-to-back majors from the Bulldogs at the start of the second term saw them hit the lead, but a Hugh McCluggage goal at the 16-minute mark sparked a run of six straight goals for the home side.

The Dogs threatened to claw back the deficit a few times in the second half, but Brisbane kept them at arm’s length to maintain their spot in the top four.

The Bulldogs have an eight-day break to prepare for their next challenge, against the Adelaide Crows next Sunday at Metricon Stadium.


MATCH DETAILS
Brisbane Lions 3.4 9.8 13.10 14.12 (96)
Western Bulldogs 3.1 5.2 8.2 11.6 (72)

GOALS
Brisbane Lions: Hipwood 5, Ah Chee 2, McCluggage 2, Bailey 2, McStay, Neale, Robinson
Western Bulldogs: Wallis 3, Lloyd 2, Macrae, Lipinski, Bontempelli, Bruce, Dale, Naughton

BEST
Brisbane: Neale, Zorko, Hipwood, Lyons, Bailey, McCluggage
Western Bulldogs: Macrae, Bontempelli, Wallis, Daniel, Williams

INJURIES
Brisbane: Cameron (knee)
Western Bulldogs: Nil

[Remi Moses]

It’s going to hold him back from being a very good player
His decision making also has to improve

[Remi Moses]

Too many folk hold that belief.

I certainly don’t
Gordon’s sacked a few over the journey as well
Got to hold our nerve though and there’s a few clubs who’ve held theirs and are reaping the benefits

[Remi Moses]

Yes I think Sweet needs a run. I thought he was really good in the pre season match against North and maybe a strong presence at stoppages.
Tim is still so raw.

Issue is if Sweet plays we have Naughton Bruce and English up forward
Way to top heavy

[jeemak]

Richards is probably the most frustrating player in our team at the moment. Clearly he works extremely hard both ways - I admire the defensive support he provides our back 6 - but he doesn't benefit us anywhere near enough when the ball is in his hands. He continuously butchers the ball by foot in uncontested situations and it is frustrating to say the least. I compare him to someone like Karl Amon, who is a very potent weapon inside 50 by foot as a wingman

I am continually surprised by how poor connection between hand and foot is for Ed.

He wasn't helped by the leading patterns a couple of times tonight, but when that happens there's nothing wrong with going wider or higher to even the chances of retaining the footy. Kicking it low and flat to them isn't the answer and it shows the issues he has between the ears that will hopefully be fixed with maturity.

[Danjul]

Issue is if Sweet plays we have Naughton Bruce and English up forward
Way to top heavy
What we are doing is catastrophically bad.

How will the proposed solution be worse? What will it cost to try it and see how it goes?

[Hotdog60]

Issue is if Sweet plays we have Naughton Bruce and English up forward
Way to top heavy

That is an issue and I wonder if we could have Tim floating in the back line. Or Naughton goes back although I do like him forward.

[jeemak]

What we are doing is catastrophically bad.

How will the proposed solution be worse? What will it cost to try it and see how it goes?

I reckon we leave the forward set up as it is given it was the first time in a month or two Naughton and Bruce played together. If Sweet comes in English goes out and that's it. And honestly, given the lethargy that has invaded English's game I wouldn't be too upset with that.

[SonofScray]

Richards is probably the most frustrating player in our team at the moment. Clearly he works extremely hard both ways - I admire the defensive support he provides our back 6 - but he doesn't benefit us anywhere near enough when the ball is in his hands. He continuously butchers the ball by foot in uncontested situations and it is frustrating to say the least. I compare him to someone like Karl Amon, who is a very potent weapon inside 50 by foot as a wingman
He is almost there. I mentioned to my wife that when he is running with the ball we look our best. It's when the ball leaves his hands things go awry. Wish that for the last turnover he had have just ran a few extra metres and kicked a long goal, or behind.

[jeemak]

I thought Wood outside of a few howlers by foot did a fantastic job on Cameron tonight.

Part of the reason why we couldn't move Gardner was because of that fact, and honestly, where else would we have put him. The loss of Crozier was huge again, and not having Doc available severely limited us. I guess the question is, if Wood was moved to cover Hipwood, who could be put on Cameron? If Young was selected and had a bad night what changes could we have made?

Williams was pretty good and I wouldn't have wanted to move him. I guess in hindsight we've gone into the game with a heavy dependence on cutting supply and it didn't work out because our midfield were picking and choosing when they wanted to pressure.

[Sedat]

I thought Wood outside of a few howlers by foot did a fantastic job on Cameron tonight.

Part of the reason why we couldn't move Gardner was because of that fact, and honestly, where else would we have put him. The loss of Crozier was huge again, and not having Doc available severely limited us. I guess the question is, if Wood was moved to cover Hipwood, who could be put on Cameron? If Young was selected and had a bad night what changes could we have made?

Williams was pretty good and I wouldn't have wanted to move him. I guess in hindsight we've gone into the game with a heavy dependence on cutting supply and it didn't work out because our midfield were picking and choosing when they wanted to pressure.

They could have swapped Keath and Gardiner on McStay and Hipwood. McStay wasn't exactly shooting the lights out and it was clear that Hipwood was posing a real threat on Gardiner.

[jeemak]

They could have swapped Keath and Gardiner on McStay and Hipwood. McStay wasn't exactly shooting the lights out and it was clear that Hipwood was posing a real threat on Gardiner.

Possibly, but with that move you risk making two players dangerous at once given mobility isn't Keath's strong suit.

Not a move without merit, mind you.

[GVGjr]

I thought Wood outside of a few howlers by foot did a fantastic job on Cameron tonight.



He did do a good job containing a dangerous forward but he really isn't impacting games for us

As for the howlers, that's a similar story to the Port game.

[Scraggers]

I'm all for keeping Bevo but that "forever and a day" is just for the Seekers
He's got to make some adjustments but he is capable of that

My whole life we have had short term coaches. 5/6/7 years ... that’s it. When I think about the great generational teams, Essendon of the 80s, Hawthorn of 70s and the 00s; they all had one thing in common a long term coach. That is what we need right now. A long term 10+ years (from now) coach. Bevo is that man.

[jeemak]

He did do a good job containing a dangerous forward but he really isn't impacting games for us

As for the howlers, that's a similar story to the Port game.

But isn't that impacting the game in itself? If you went into tonight asking Easton to keep Cameron to the impact he had tonight would you think he did really well? Cameron is elite to the power of sick.

His major attribute when playing freely is intercepting, but that wasn't an option tonight because his major concern was avoiding being exposed at ground level.

[GVGjr]

My whole life we have had short term coaches. 5/6/7 years ... that’s it. When I think about the great generational teams, Essendon of the 80s, Hawthorn of 70s and the 00s; they all had one thing in common a long term coach. That is what we need right now. A long term 10+ years (from now) coach. Bevo is that man.

Generational and long term coaching appointments occur with successful sides though and and I think you would have to concede we aren't there at the moment. As I mentioned in the initial response, I'm happy enough with Bevo but unless he gets us improving there has to be a shelf life on his job with us and I want him to succeed

He's been given a good go at improving the skill level of the playing list, he's received top draft picks and he seems to have had a fair say on which players are let go at the season. He's had his time to see if he can make the right decisions in improving our team

[GVGjr]

But isn't that impacting the game in itself? If you went into tonight asking Easton to keep Cameron to the impact he had tonight would you think he did really well? Cameron is elite to the power of sick.

His major attribute when playing freely is intercepting, but that wasn't an option tonight because his major concern was avoiding being exposed at ground level.

If you want to look at it that way then yes but I'm not sure that shutting down an opponent is the only job he is being asked to do as every defender is given an opponent. To me an experienced player needs to find way on contribute more than Wood has been able to and certainly he needs to use the ball better especially when he isn't getting a lot of the ball.

[jeemak]

If you want to look at it that way then yes but I'm not sure that shutting down an opponent is the only job he is being asked to do as every defender is given an opponent. To me an experienced player needs to find way on contribute more than Wood has been able to and certainly he needs to use the ball better especially when he isn't getting a lot of the ball.

I get what you're saying but I also think there's times where such a special opposition player is kept to minimal contribution some kudos needs to be given to the defender responsible for it.

There was no excuse for the poor kicking, especially on such a wide ground. He wasn't playing on Kardinia Park tonight.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

They could have swapped Keath and Gardiner on McStay and Hipwood. McStay wasn't exactly shooting the lights out and it was clear that Hipwood was posing a real threat on Gardiner.

Keath showed ZERO interest in switching to Hipwood as play unfolded tonight.
2nd and 4th Qtr I saw it at close quarters. Keath stuck close to his assigned man as it was at centre bounve, showed ZERO inclination to adjust and slide over to help Gardner.
Im3no Gardner fan, but he and Cordy did sweet FA to try and play team defense tonight.
And that is not to let our mids off the hook. But I saw what I saw, and Gardner, for all of his limitations was hung out to dry by the so called ' Men's Department'.

[Scraggers]

Generational and long term coaching appointments occur with successful sides though and and I think you would have to concede we aren't there at the moment. As I mentioned in the initial response, I'm happy enough with Bevo but unless he gets us improving there has to be a shelf life on his job with us and I want him to succeed

He's been given a good go at improving the skill level of the playing list, he's received top draft picks and he seems to have had a fair say on which players are let go at the season. He's had his time to see if he can make the right decisions in improving our team

100% agree with the bolded section, but 2016 has to give impetus to a long term coach. Yet again, we were the younger side last night. From here we have to build into a three-peat team or at least a multiple premiership team. We have the foundations of that sort of team. It’s time to double down and invest in the long term.

In saying all of this, I agree with what you’re saying. Bevo has to increase the skill-set of the foundations.

[Grantysghost]

Keath showed ZERO interest in switching to Hipwood as play unfolded tonight.
2nd and 4th Qtr I saw it at close quarters. Keath stuck close to his assigned man as it was at centre bounve, showed ZERO inclination to adjust and slide over to help Gardner.
Im3no Gardner fan, but he and Cordy did sweet FA to try and play team defense tonight.
And that is not to let our mids off the hook. But I saw what I saw, and Gardner, for all of his limitations was hung out to dry by the so called ' Men's Department'.

Being "hubbed" probably amplifies "team". Anyone thats played team sport knows there are cliques and factions. I've been watching with interest in the current climate to see which teams really are united; our 2016 foundation. Possibly the tigers are the closest :cool:
So maybe we have some work to do on team, makes sense considering the age of the list and the new guys we brought in
Hopefully it gels soon.
Your insights live are so appreciated. Speaking to the wife today, last game we saw live was v Crows at Ballarat. August 2019 nearly a year ago! So we shall barrack vicariously through you. No pressure.

[FrediKanoute]

Keath showed ZERO interest in switching to Hipwood as play unfolded tonight.
2nd and 4th Qtr I saw it at close quarters. Keath stuck close to his assigned man as it was at centre bounve, showed ZERO inclination to adjust and slide over to help Gardner.
Im3no Gardner fan, but he and Cordy did sweet FA to try and play team defense tonight.
And that is not to let our mids off the hook. But I saw what I saw, and Gardner, for all of his limitations was hung out to dry by the so called ' Men's Department'.

Who did Cordy have? Ealier int he year (v Saints I think) Keath gave Gardiner a spray. May be that he just doesn't have confidence in him to do the job. We have all been in workplaces like that!

[GVGjr]

100% agree with the bolded section, but 2016 has to give impetus to a long term coach. Yet again, we were the younger side last night. From here we have to build into a three-peat team or at least a multiple premiership team. We have the foundations of that sort of team. It’s time to double down and invest in the long term.

In saying all of this, I agree with what you’re saying. Bevo has to increase the skill-set of the foundations.

The concern for me is we keep saying that we are a young team as a way to soften the impacts of a loss but in essence the real issues are more around that our skill level over the group isn't improving and we are lacking a bit of zip over the ground from our midfield and flankers

These are things that can be controlled and at the very least addressed but it seems we have accepted them and in this competitive environment if you aren't improving you are going backwards. That is the real challenge we need to stare into not our age profile

[Hotdog60]

Bevo's presser was interesting in that they actually have a plan A,B and C that they are suppose to implement in times of need and the players didn't adjust quickly enough.
Also I found it interesting that he said with the 8 day break they can train this week so what does that do for the skills. It may not hurt some teams that can cover non training due to their natural skill set we may be one of those teams that need to constantly work at it to be consistent.
Also Gardner wasn't supposed to be on Hipwood so Bevo backed up what YHF said in his post about 'Gardner, for all of his limitations was hung out to dry by the so called ' Men's Department'.

[comrade]

Also Gardner wasn't supposed to be on Hipwood so Bevo backed up what YHF said in his post about 'Gardner, for all of his limitations was hung out to dry by the so called ' Men's Department'.

That's a real concern.

This, combined with the tongue lashing he got in the St Kilda game, suggests his teammates aren't exactly supportive of him being in the side.

Do they read WOOF? ;)

[Remi Moses]

What we are doing is catastrophically bad.

How will the proposed solution be worse? What will it cost to try it and see how it goes?

There’s not much defensive pressure now
There’d be none if that happened .

[Remi Moses]

He did do a good job containing a dangerous forward but he really isn't impacting games for us

As for the howlers, that's a similar story to the Port game.

Wouldn’t his role be to nullify Cameron ? Therefore played a pretty important role ?
Actually thought he did a decent game

[azabob]

Gee I’m worried if Ugle -Hagen doesn’t win the Coleman next year some here will want him delisted
Dunkley and Naughton are coming back from severe injuries
Get some perspective please

Are you happy with our on field performance since 2017?

What is changing that will make us a regular finals performer?

[GVGjr]

Wouldn’t his role be to nullify Cameron ? Therefore played a pretty important role ?
Actually thought he did a decent game

He was OK but we won't have any drive from the back half if that's all that every defender has to do
It's like saying that if one of our forwards kicks a couple of goals his job has been done, I still want him to apply some accountability to his opponent and get more involved

[bulldogsthru&thru]

The concern for me is we keep saying that we are a young team as a way to soften the impacts of a loss but in essence the real issues are more around that our skill level over the group isn't improving and we are lacking a bit of zip over the ground from our midfield and flankers

These are things that can be controlled and at the very least addressed but it seems we have accepted them and in this competitive environment if you aren't improving you are going backwards. That is the real challenge we need to stare into not our age profile
This is what concerns me the most. We do appear to be going backwards. We had such a young premiership team that we all thought the only way was up. But almost everyone on our list that year has either retired or gone backwards in development. And for all the weaknesses we had in that side, namely lack of pace and foot skills, we’ve failed to address those areas in any way over 4 subsequent seasons. And to compensate for those weaknesses, in 2016 we were an absolute contested ball power house. But now that area has completely vanished from our game. I mean, what is our strength right now? What can we count on each week?

[Hotdog60]

Another observation I had last night was at the centre bounce our players started a metre or two off their opponents so when the ball was hit in the Lions direction they already had a yard of space to work in. Did we over rate Tim's influence at the bounce or under rate McInerney.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Another observation I had last night was at the centre bounce our players started a metre or two off their opponents so when the ball was hit in the Lions direction they already had a yard of space to work in. Did we over rate Tim's influence at the bounce or under rate McInerney.

Surely couldn’t overrate Tim’s influence. I’ve seen nothing in his ruck game that suggests he is anywhere near capable of splitting a ruck contest. His strength is when the ball hits the ground and around the ground. But my god his ruck work is awful and I can’t understand why. He’s so tall and lanky that he should get first tap almost all the time. He just doesn’t seem to like physical contact in the ruck. It’s seriously like he doesn’t either bother trying sometimes to get the tap. And I also saw multiple times last night where he just didn’t break out of a fast walk. If he’s that buggered he should be given a spell.

[GVGjr]

This is what concerns me the most. We do appear to be going backwards. We had such a young premiership team that we all thought the only way was up. But almost everyone on our list that year has either retired or gone backwards in development. And for all the weaknesses we had in that side, namely lack of pace and foot skills, we’ve failed to address those areas in any way over 4 subsequent seasons. And to compensate for those weaknesses, in 2016 we were an absolute contested ball power house. But now that area has completely vanished from our game. I mean, what is our strength right now? What can we count on each week?

There could be some variables in this but it's why I think many of us find it somewhat confusing.
Are we rebuilding by stealth? Clubs hate saying that
Are the players not adapting to life away from Melbourne?
Whats happening with the likes of Lewis Young, Rhylee West, Fergus Greene, Will Hayes, Ben Cavarra and Bradley Lynch etc who all appear to be stalling in their development?

We've got some head stratching questions at the moment that we can't quite work out the answers for.

[Danjul]

Surely couldn’t overrate Tim’s influence. I’ve seen nothing in his ruck game that suggests he is anywhere near capable of splitting a ruck contest. His strength is when the ball hits the ground and around the ground. But my god his ruck work is awful and I can’t understand why. He’s so tall and lanky that he should get first tap almost all the time. He just doesn’t seem to like physical contact in the ruck. It’s seriously like he doesn’t either bother trying sometimes to get the tap. And I also saw multiple times last night where he just didn’t break out of a fast walk. If he’s that buggered he should be given a spell.
I’ve said it many times before and been ridiculed for it, but here we go again.

English is not a ‘first ‘ ruck. And that’s an extremely important role in a team that wants to be a genuine contender.

His benefit to the team so far has 90% been around the ground. And in the 1 on 1 contests in the ruck he has been a liability preventing very good players from having their natural contributions. Our centres have to work twice as hard as their opponents and our play starts on the half back line too often. Opposing coaches have done their homework and told their ruckmen to jump against his upper body to keep him from the ball. Last night we saw that continually.

Playing English as the sole ruckman for the last few seasons has cost us a lot of wins and last night was another. When we give him a rest we remove another player from what they do best. We have the worst second ruck performance.

We could have a reasonable ruckman who is simply serviceable, working with a dominant second ruck who is not getting bashed around for little benefit.

I don’t understand how so many believe the ruck is irrelevant and can be ignored to the extent that it has been. You can see the opposition love it, they set up believing they have an advantage.

As an aside, I had a look at Minson’s hitouts in 2013 (?). 860 is more than double what we get now. Imagine our mids in that situation.

Nothing here is a criticism of English. He is super talented and we should be confident of playing finals because of that talent. We just don’t let him have the influence he could bring to bear.

[DOG GOD]

We’re just miles off being competitive against the really good teams.

- Our mids all run the one way... the balance in that group isn’t working.

- We don’t use the ball well enough by foot, especially given the lack of leg speed many of these players have.

- Our defenders struggle to beat their man.

- Our F50 pressure is as bad as anyone in the competition with no pace at all.

- Our 2-5 year players, in general are treading water.

- We have an extremely loyal coach who has blind faith in players who every decent judge knows aren’t up to this level.

Agree 100%

[Eastdog]

https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/792550/key-takeaways-round-11


Key Takeaways: Round 11
The talking points from our Round 11 loss to the Brisbane Lions.


1. Patchy Dogs caught out

Over the past three weeks – against three of the competition’s top teams – the Bulldogs have won four of 12 quarters on the scoreboard.
They have lost three others by less than a kick.
But patches in games are letting the Dogs down, when they’re unable to halt opposition momentum.
Against the Tigers, it was a run of nine goals to two from halfway through the first term to half time. Against the Power, a four goal to none third quarter.
On Saturday night, it was five unanswered goals before half-time after Marcus Bontempelli had given the Bulldogs to lead midway through the second term.


2. Macrae’s magnetic form continues

Jack Macrae finds the football with such ease, it’s like a magnetic attraction.
The gun midfielder broke new ground in 2020 against the Lions, becoming the first player to record 40 disposals in a game this season.
Impressive numbers. But more than that, he had a big impact on the game.
Despite the Bulldogs being beaten at the source, Macrae was instrumental around the ground and had a strong offensive and defensive impact.
An equal team-high five intercepts and seven inside-50s – plus a team-high seven score involvements – continued the 26-year-old’s brilliant month of football.


3. Wallis at home

A permanent move forward has been a blessing for Mitch Wallis and the Bulldogs in 2020.
Not only is he the team’s leading goal-kicker, but he is also currently in the competition’s top 10 goal-kickers.
Wallis has made the most of his opportunities in front of the big sticks – having kicked 16.5 – and arguably could have had another two to his name, if not for the blood rule intervening in recent weeks.
The 27-year-old stepped up to the plate again against the Lions on Saturday night, kicking three goals for the third time in the past five weeks.

[jeemak]

There could be some variables in this but it's why I think many of us find it somewhat confusing.
Are we rebuilding by stealth? Clubs hate saying that
Are the players not adapting to life away from Melbourne?
Whats happening with the likes of Lewis Young, Rhylee West, Fergus Greene, Will Hayes, Ben Cavarra and Bradley Lynch etc who all appear to be stalling in their development?

We've got some head stratching questions at the moment that we can't quite work out the answers for.

We're not rebuilding by stealth. You're just not allowed to say you're rebuilding so close to winning a flag irrespective of how many players you've turned over and how difficult you've found it to replace those players in the most part with seasoned performers of their quality. It's why you hear Bevo say we're young but we don't want that to be a hindrance to progress and we want to learn quickly.

We've had some success in adding experience to the list with Crozier, and hopefully we'll have more with Keath and Bruce once the latter gets some support. With respect to player development this year it is difficult to gauge how players should be tracking as there's no competitive footy at the lower level each week, but of the players you mention only Lynch concerns me in lieu of his good finish to 2018 and falling off a cliff last year.

[GVGjr]

We're not rebuilding by stealth. You're just not allowed to say you're rebuilding so close to winning a flag irrespective of how many players you've turned over and how difficult you've found it to replace those players in the most part with seasoned performers of their quality. It's why you hear Bevo say we're young but we don't want that to be a hindrance to progress and we want to learn quickly.

We've had some success in adding experience to the list with Crozier, and hopefully we'll have more with Keath and Bruce once the latter gets some support. With respect to player development this year it is difficult to gauge how players should be tracking as there's no competitive footy at the lower level each week, but of the players you mention only Lynch concerns me in lieu of his good finish to 2018 and falling off a cliff last year.

If we were rebuilding I wonder how that would be accepted by some of the better players in the group
Would the likes of Bont, Macrae, Dunkley who had been a part of a flag want to wait around for 3 years or so until a rebuild might be completed?

[azabob]

If we were rebuilding I wonder how that would be accepted by some of the better players in the group
Would the likes of Bont, Macrae, Dunkley who had been a part of a flag want to wait around for 3 years or so until a rebuild might be completed?

Same could also be said of Alex Keith and Josh Bruce.

[GVGjr]

Same could also be said of Alex Keith and Josh Bruce.

They haven't been part of a Bulldogs flag though. Their motivations for arriving at the Kennel might have been a bit different

[jeemak]

I think those players are probably aware that the rebuild has been going on for a few years including this one. What will annoy them is if it doesn't bear fruit in the next couple of years.

[G-Mo77]

I think those players are probably aware that the rebuild has been going on for a few years including this one. What will annoy them is if it doesn't bear fruit in the next couple of years.

I'm sure it was pitched to both players that with them our team would better and we'd be looking to go deep into the finals again. A lot pegged us to go that way. If Keath had his time again he probably would have chosen St. Kilda. We probably would have still got Bruce even if we were projected to go like we have. Saints didn't want him.

I don't buy the rebuild route theory. I think we're driving this car without a steering wheel.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I'm sure it was pitched to both players that with them our team would better and we'd be looking to go deep into the finals again. A lot pegged us to go that way. If Keath had his time again he probably would have chosen St. Kilda. We probably would have still got Bruce even if we were projected to go like we have. Saints didn't want him.

I don't buy the rebuild route theory. I think we're driving this car without a steering wheel.

Tend to agree.

Bruce didn't entertain many other offers either and explicitly stated he wanted to play finals, so I doubt in our meetings with Keath/Bruce we spoke much about being an under developed side.

[jeemak]

Well all they and their player managers would need to do is look at our profile and how we performed over the course of the last few years to know that we're under developed and trading on potential.

Potential is speculative. 2005/06 and 2007 taught us that, no?