I NEVER say this but we were poorly coached/prepared vs Richmond

[mjp]

Was anyone else surprised to watch Richmond chipping the ball around last night?

I was surprised - and the players were super duper surprised.

I think (and I'm too lazy to check) that the Tigers had 30x uncontested marks in the 2nd q? They certainly had 80 for the night - which is a West Coast type number...they were playing a completely different style of footy to 'normal' and there is 100% no doubt they went into this game with a clear plan to deny us the ball and separate our defenders.

We were not ready. We allowed hit up space through the corridor and Richmond - counter to their usual style - just player by player hit the easy one and moved the ball down the ground. They were 100% ready with an opposition specific plan.

1/. They *MUST* have been practicing this.
2/. We either didn't know...or if we did, didn't believe it.

Is the hub environment preventing us from getting the usual forward scout type info or...

[Mantis]

It was in the first qtr... I commented in the game day thread the marks were 33 to 7 at the first break.

Our players were lazy & selfish in the first qtr. with far too many handovers and lazy checking.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I think it was 33-7 marks at quarter time. That is damning.

I think the saints also employed this strategy against us. Perhaps to a lesser extent but I recall in other losses the frustration at watching a team chip the ball up the ground with ease. When each kick has an opposition player 10-15m in front of our player you know a) we’re not working hard enough and b) we have no idea how to handle it. The result is the opposition getting the ball 60-65m out from goal and, having sucked all our players up the ground, kick it to space inside 50 where their forward take easy marks against our hapless defenders who really have no idea how to defend 1-1 as we rely on a zone so much.

To answer your last point, we’ve been waiting 3.5yrs for adjustments when teams expose our weaknesses and we’ve seen zero change. We must work at perfecting the handball all preseason because damned if I can tell what we’ve actually improved in that time. At some point you have to ask what coaching is actually going on down there.

[Mofra]

They had 33(?) marks in the first quarter. They just controlled the tempo of the game for 95% of the game, with the exception of a small patch at the beginning of the third quarter.

Teams know our forwardline is *ahem* struggling and we generate scoring chains from the back half more than any other team in the competition. Collingwood delivered a masterclass in round 1 on how to stop that, and when our gameplan fails it fails in spectacular fashion. When a poor stoppage team like Richmond look like they are the mid 2000s West Coast unit, something is really really wrong.

I just as concerned about Dew's tactic to nullify English's influence around the ground now being a blueprint for opposition coaches to follow. It also took English away from his role as tall-defender in some phases of play, which meant even the horribly out of form tall Richmond forwards had a really good night.

Did anyone else notice Bevo stay in the box for ages after the game? That was a real worry. That is an "oh shit" moment.

[Mantis]

Did anyone else notice Bevo stay in the box for ages after the game? That was a real worry. That is an "oh shit" moment.

Perhaps the realization that everything he's been working on isn't going to cut it against good opposition?

He's made the mess... he needs to fix it!

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Was anyone else surprised to watch Richmond chipping the ball around last night?

I was surprised - and the players were super duper surprised.

I think (and I'm too lazy to check) that the Tigers had 30x uncontested marks in the 2nd q? They certainly had 80 for the night - which is a West Coast type number...they were playing a completely different style of footy to 'normal' and there is 100% no doubt they went into this game with a clear plan to deny us the ball and separate our defenders.

We were not ready. We allowed hit up space through the corridor and Richmond - counter to their usual style - just player by player hit the easy one and moved the ball down the ground. They were 100% ready with an opposition specific plan.

1/. They *MUST* have been practicing this.
2/. We either didn't know...or if we did, didn't believe it.

Is the hub environment preventing us from getting the usual forward scout type info or...

I was surprised too, but was fairly confident that we'd adjust at the Qtr time break. We either didn't try OR tried but couldn't...either is a concern.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Did anyone else notice Bevo stay in the box for ages after the game? That was a real worry. That is an "oh shit" moment.

I wonder whether he was just trying to carefully think about his message to the players. I bet he was tempted to unleash, but wanted to compose himself and really be sure of how he engaged the group, given the short break over next 3 weeks.

[bornadog]

I wonder whether he was just trying to carefully think about his message to the players. I bet he was tempted to unleash, but wanted to compose himself and really be sure of how he engaged the group, given the short break over next 3 weeks.

That sounds more feasible to me.

[Grantysghost]

I wonder whether he was just trying to carefully think about his message to the players. I bet he was tempted to unleash, but wanted to compose himself and really be sure of how he engaged the group, given the short break over next 3 weeks.

Does he have a rocket style bake in his arsenal ? I always comment to my wife when we are losing he has a constant look of perplexity on his face. A cross between angry and confused, willing an answer from the magnets or the stats.

[Grantysghost]

Re the Tigers tactics, they weren't subtle were they. Even the 7 commentary team picked it up. So we had to be aware and either the players didn't do what was required or we just dont have a suitable plan b.
I maybe just stupid here but what happened to man on man for a period?
Or playing slow possession footy for a bit.

[Mofra]

Does he have a rocket style bake in his arsenal ? I always comment to my wife when we are losing he has a constant look of perplexity on his face. A cross between angry and confused, willing an answer from the magnets or the stats.
One player mentioned he's tried to give a bake before, but it's not that effective. He just doesn't do 'angry coach'

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Re the Tigers tactics, they weren't subtle were they. Even the 7 commentary team picked it up. So we had to be aware and either the players didn't do what was required or we just dont have a suitable plan b.
I maybe just stupid here but what happened to man on man for a period?
Or playing slow possession footy for a bit.

I dunno. I think we’ve had too long of this to pass it off as players unable to carry a plan b out. I honestly think we have no plan b. We have one way of playing and that’s it. Our plan b is basically swap a player from the forward line with a mid. Our game plan is 100% intensity, work in numbers behind the ball and develop a forward push from that. So teams that bring pressure to stifle our numbers around the ball or maintain possession to suck our numbers up from defense just kill us. Teams that jam our forward line also kill us due to our inept forwards.

[azabob]

Did anyone else notice Bevo stay in the box for ages after the game? That was a real worry. That is an "oh shit" moment.

His press conference after the game said a lot I thought. He said more than normal and didn't really speak in riddles.

He admitted we are struggling, mids and forwards need to defend better, our connection still isn't there.

The next few weeks will be extremely interesting.

[Happy Days]

His press conference after the game said a lot I thought. He said more than normal and didn't really speak in riddles.

He admitted we are struggling, mids and forwards need to defend better, our connection still isn't there.



This is the biggest issue right now. The common theme in all of our losses is the incredible ease of transitional ball use by the other sides, and it falls at failure of the mids and particularly the forwards to defend.

Lloyd was easily our best defensive forward on the field last night, which cannot be the state of affairs. Part of the reason the continued Gowers selection is so frustrating is that he is a putrid defensive chaser and arm tackler, which is really inexcusable when considering how little offensive output he provides. If we are going to persist with Wallis (yes) and Bruce (no) then we need some more speed and willingness in the forward line. Naughton will help when he's ready, and now that I've said all that West simply has to come in.

[The bulldog tragician]

Was anyone else surprised to watch Richmond chipping the ball around last night?

I was surprised - and the players were super duper surprised.

I think (and I'm too lazy to check) that the Tigers had 30x uncontested marks in the 2nd q? They certainly had 80 for the night - which is a West Coast type number...they were playing a completely different style of footy to 'normal' and there is 100% no doubt they went into this game with a clear plan to deny us the ball and separate our defenders.

We were not ready. We allowed hit up space through the corridor and Richmond - counter to their usual style - just player by player hit the easy one and moved the ball down the ground. They were 100% ready with an opposition specific plan.

1/. They *MUST* have been practicing this.
2/. We either didn't know...or if we did, didn't believe it.

Is the hub environment preventing us from getting the usual forward scout type info or...

Actually I think you DID say things of this sort after our dismal final v GWS - about not being prepared for something predictable (in that case, the aggression and physicality). You were right both times.

[FrediKanoute]

Does he have a rocket style bake in his arsenal ? I always comment to my wife when we are losing he has a constant look of perplexity on his face. A cross between angry and confused, willing an answer from the magnets or the stats.

You can read a lot into a person's expression and most of it will be wrong. I think the comments in the presser were telling - he's not happy with how the team is playing, which suggests that they are not playing the way or gameplan he wants.

That said a team that has passengers in it is rarely going to do anything other than submit to what the opposition want.

[FrediKanoute]

This is the biggest issue right now. The common theme in all of our losses is the incredible ease of transitional ball use by the other sides, and it falls at failure of the mids and particularly the forwards to defend.

Lloyd was easily our best defensive forward on the field last night, which cannot be the state of affairs. Part of the reason the continued Gowers selection is so frustrating is that he is a putrid defensive chaser and arm tackler, which is really inexcusable when considering how little offensive output he provides. If we are going to persist with Wallis (yes) and Bruce (no) then we need some more speed and willingness in the forward line. Naughton will help when he's ready, and now that I've said all that West simply has to come in.

I think Lloyd is struggling and question whether we should persist with him given his age etc. Whilst he may have done a great defensive job that's not really what he is there for is it?

I agree West should come in. To me he offers a good blend of attack and defense - as least as effective as Lloyd currently is. on Gowers what disappoints me most about him is the lack of effective defensive acts. I can handle his offensive output can vary, but no contributing on the defensive side is a no no in modern football.

Re Bruce - he needs a Naughts or a Schache next to him. Its too easy to close him down otherwise. I agree Schache was putrid v Carlton, but he should have been given a chance for redemption. Contrast Schache's treatment v Gowers - that's what I find frustrating.

[Happy Days]

I think Lloyd is struggling and question whether we should persist with him given his age etc. Whilst he may have done a great defensive job that's not really what he is there for is it?

I agree West should come in. To me he offers a good blend of attack and defense - as least as effective as Lloyd currently is. on Gowers what disappoints me most about him is the lack of effective defensive acts. I can handle his offensive output can vary, but no contributing on the defensive side is a no no in modern football.

Re Bruce - he needs a Naughts or a Schache next to him. Its too easy to close him down otherwise. I agree Schache was putrid v Carlton, but he should have been given a chance for redemption. Contrast Schache's treatment v Gowers - that's what I find frustrating.

Was very much a backhanded compliment to Lloyd and a forehanded smack to the rest of the forwards. None of them are working hard enough defensively.