3 things you have learned - RD 11 v Brisbane 2020

[GVGjr]

We would all love to hear the 3 things you have learned from tonight's game against the impressive Brisbane Lions team

If they can be 3 new things, that would be even better

As always, Go Dogs

[GVGjr]

Bump

[SonofScray]

We are a talented, capable side hamstrung by:

1 A stubborn coach.
2 piss weak yes men around him.
3 Enamoured administrators too weak to pull the trigger.

[1eyedog]

We are a talented, capable side hamstrung by:

1 A stubborn coach.
2 piss weak yes men around him.
3 Enamoured administrators too weak to pull the trigger.

Don't hold back mate.

[SonofScray]

Don't hold back mate.

I'm upset. But it's been clear as day to me for a long time and despite wishing I didn't think this way, there's nothing left to learn. We know the good, the bad and in between. It's going nowhere. We are wasting time.

[1eyedog]

1. We're just not up to it and we have to accept it. Next year we'll be better but a number of factors have conspired against us this season.

2. Vanders is a very good footballer.

1. Wood and JJ are putrid at the moment. Absolute rubbish.

[westbulldog]

1. The MC should be at Centrelink on Monday applying for Job SEEKER, we have royally screwed premiership windows since 2016.
2. Bevo's / coaching staff are running out of credits, we are not being coached to play accountable football.
3. Macrae is an out and out champion.

[Remi Moses]

3. Josh Bruce is resembling Edward scissorhands . Better in the second half
2. We’ve gone backwards . No execuses
1. Every time we get beat at the contest and source our backs are virtually a thouroughfare

[The Bulldogs Bite]

1. Vanda is a beauty. So much to work with here, I know we've played him as a HFF primarily but I hope we persist with him on the wing. Raw pace, attacks it hard, cares about winning/hates losing and plays positive. Only going to get better - he's the shining light of 2020.

2. The crowd at Brisbane looked half cut. Better times in QLD than Vic!

3. We're kind of in no man's land. Teams have gone past us, we've gone backwards, our leadership on field is lacking and I also think it's lacking off it. Not really sure 'where to' from here. Moreover, we see the same issues that we did in 2017 and nothing has changed so why would it change for 2021? All I know is our list is unbalanced.

[ratsmac]

1. Hipwood kicked 5, Gardner had 5 touches. Not blaming Gardner here, I'm blaming the coach for not making a move. Shit Naughton was quiet all game why not put him on Hipwood. Oh yeah Bevo doesn't like players to play in multiple positions...wait....what?

2. Teams who kick the ball are better than teams who handball the ball

3. We need to change our game plan, game structure, game systems or whatever you want to call it because opp teams know how to beat us

[Grantysghost]

1. Macrae can kick goals if we give him the ball in the right spots.
2. Our midfield is struggling. Our talisman Marcus just isn't having the same impact he usually does. Macrae and Libba aside where is the drive coming from.
3. Maybe after one outstanding game we pin too much expectation on a developing Naughton.

[kruder]

1. Our centre square work is totally broken, when do we ever come out clean looking dangerous? We often get our hands to it and then end up coming out sideways/backwards often losing our feet and giving up the advantage we had fleetingly.

2. Pressure/Accountability/Tackling - I was amazed at how many times our players just stood there flat footed without having any impact on the contest when the heat came on. We absolutely avoid contact at any cost its an indictment on the entire playing group.

3. I was going to end on a negative but I have to highlight Macrae. Started the season slow but his last few weeks have been sensational.

[kruder]

1. Macrae can kick goals if we give him the ball in the right spots.
2. Our midfield is struggling. Our talisman Marcus just isn't having the same impact he usually does. Macrae and Libba aside where is the drive coming from.
3. Maybe after one outstanding game we pin too much expectation on a developing Naughton.


I'm glad you mentioned Bont he has had a bloody poor year. Its hard to say it because he has been so good for us, but he has gone missing in the key moments this year.

[Dry Rot]

Macrae - champion. Our best player currently.

Vanders - looks like he will be great in 3 years

Wood - the end is near?

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

1. Our midfield, on paper look great, but despite Macrae's 40 touches and Bont's 30, as a group they were torched at the source, and especially in the 2nd qtr they gave up goals.

2. Richards has gone backward at an alarming rate. His kicking in particular really hurts us.
3. Wally, we could focus on what his limitations are, but his strengths are exactly what we need more of up forward. He fights, he works hard and he converts his chances.

[jeemak]

I actually didn't learn a lot, however was surprised by a few things that showed how poor our on field coordination is.

1. Getting sucked to the ball and leaving opposition players out says to me communication on ground isn't where it needs to be

2. Lack of defencive mindset in our midfield group, particularly at the clearance level when it's clear we need to get the game on our terms. Yes, we are good enough to win the ball ourselves but when the opposition has its tail up stifling them should be the first and foremost concern at the coal face. When you're not having it on your terms at the centre bounce kill the contest, let players roll in to support at the next one. Again, something the players should do automatically

3. Outside of the 2009 preliminary final I've been pretty pragmatic towards umpiring as a football watcher, but the non-payment of the free against Harris Andrews directly in front broke me and I'll struggle with it. It was a huge moment in the game exacerbated by our midfield not being accountable, but kicking a goal at that time would have made a huge difference to the nature of the second quarter. Obvious, and disgraceful omission

[Sedat]

1. Less voices in match committee as a result of COVID has been very detrimental to us

2. Our 'handball club' game plan looks quite archaic compared to the contenders in 2020

3. Selection integrity matters. Giving some players multiple weeks despite no form and others 1 week to basically fill the seats does not make for a happy and harmonious playing group and club.

[GVGjr]

1 - Coming off a shorter break hasn't been a problem for good teams
2 - We've allowed teams to break us down for the better part of a quarter in games and it's cost us
3 - We really need to start getting some wins

[Dry Rot]

1. Our midfield, on paper look great, but despite Macrae's 40 touches and Bont's 30, as a group they were torched at the source, and especially in the 2nd qtr they gave up goals.

I think this is such a good point it deserves its own thread.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I actually didn't learn a lot, however was surprised by a few things that showed how poor our on field coordination is.

1. Getting sucked to the ball and leaving opposition players out says to me communication on ground isn't where it needs to be

2. Lack of defencive mindset in our midfield group, particularly at the clearance level when it's clear we need to get the game on our terms. Yes, we are good enough to win the ball ourselves but when the opposition has its tail up stifling them should be the first and foremost concern at the coal face. When you're not having it on your terms at the centre bounce kill the contest, let players roll in to support at the next one. Again, something the players should do automatically

3. Outside of the 2009 preliminary final I've been pretty pragmatic towards umpiring as a football watcher, but the non-payment of the free against Harris Andrews directly in front broke me and I'll struggle with it. It was a huge moment in the game exacerbated by our midfield not being accountable, but kicking a goal at that time would have made a huge difference to the nature of the second quarter. Obvious, and disgraceful omission

Your 2nd point Jeemak was so evident to see at the ground tonight. What's more so could Brisbane players further outside the contest and upfield..

Whenever a ball was flicked out of a contest, before the next passage of play had taken place, Lion's players one kick away already could see they were going to win the ball and started moving to space. Especially in the 2nd Qtr. At times it looked like a game of checkers unfolding with overlaps everywhere

[comrade]

I actually didn't learn a lot, however was surprised by a few things that showed how poor our on field coordination is.

1. Getting sucked to the ball and leaving opposition players out says to me communication on ground isn't where it needs to be

2. Lack of defencive mindset in our midfield group, particularly at the clearance level when it's clear we need to get the game on our terms. Yes, we are good enough to win the ball ourselves but when the opposition has its tail up stifling them should be the first and foremost concern at the coal face. When you're not having it on your terms at the centre bounce kill the contest, let players roll in to support at the next one. Again, something the players should do automatically


None of this is new. It has been going on for 3.5 years.

So who’s to say the midfield isn’t playing to instruction?

And if our midfield should be more responsible for following defence plans like you’re suggesting, why has it been allowed to happen and why isn’t the message sinking in?

[bulldogsthru&thru]

None of this is new. It has been going on for 3.5 years.

So who’s to say the midfield isn’t playing to instruction?

And if our midfield should be more responsible for following defence plans like you’re suggesting, why has it been allowed to happen and why isn’t the message sinking in?

Exactly. How many years can you give a bunch of players to start becoming more disciplined and communicative? If it takes that long for them to learn how to be accountable then we’ve got a problem.

Our on field leadership must be the worst in the comp. Honestly Bont just doesn’t look like a leader to me. At least not at this early stage. And I don’t know who on our list can do it effectively on field. I think we’ve given Bont the captaincy to sure up his signature. I hope we haven’t done a Melbourne and just given a bunch of kids leadership. Unfortunately we haven’t got any experience left. We’re really missing Boyd’s and Morris’ leadership.

[AshMac]

1. The AFL has officially removed the dropping the ball rule - they just didn’t tell us

2. Were so far away from the “good teams” - last night we were beaten in each area of the ground

3. I’d forgotten how good it is watching a pack mark and goal in OUR F50

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Not so much something I’ve learnt but something I’m giving more thought to. Do we need to send Naughton back to defence? We need a guy down there who can take the big forwards. Keath can’t and I’m not sure what value Cordy provides anymore. He can’t intercept, can’t play small and can’t play on the bigs. Naughton can be our rock down there. It also doesn’t leave us as exposed up forward. Le Young, Schache and Bruce can operate up there well enough and with JUM next year it’s not a bad forward line. I know we go through this every year but our balance down back seems off and even though that’s the case up forward, I think we’ve got more players up there who can step in. But who can honestly step in down back if Keath goes down?? We need two of Naughts

[AshMac]

Not so much something I’ve learnt but something I’m giving more thought to. Do we need to send Naughton back to defence? We need a guy down there who can take the big forwards. Keath can’t and I’m not sure what value Cordy provides anymore. He can’t intercept, can’t play small and can’t play on the bigs. Naughton can be our rock down there. It also doesn’t leave us as exposed up forward. Le Young, Schache and Bruce can operate up there well enough and with JUM next year it’s not a bad forward line. I know we go through this every year but our balance down back seems off and even though that’s the case up forward, I think we’ve got more players up there who can step in. But who can honestly step in down back if Keath goes down?? We need two of Naughts

Was thinking the same thing at 3 qtr time then he took a mark and kicked a goal in the last.

I think Easton Wood is desperately out of form. Having him able to affect a contest and support other back as a 3rd up makes a huge difference, though very hard to do when you’re following Charlie Cameron around

[azabob]

Not so much something I’ve learnt but something I’m giving more thought to. Do we need to send Naughton back to defence? We need a guy down there who can take the big forwards. Keath can’t and I’m not sure what value Cordy provides anymore. He can’t intercept, can’t play small and can’t play on the bigs. Naughton can be our rock down there. It also doesn’t leave us as exposed up forward. Le Young, Schache and Bruce can operate up there well enough and with JUM next year it’s not a bad forward line. I know we go through this every year but our balance down back seems off and even though that’s the case up forward, I think we’ve got more players up there who can step in. But who can honestly step in down back if Keath goes down?? We need two of Naughts

Clearly the MC do not see a future with Young or Schache otherwise they would’ve played with Naughton out. Naughton would be wasted as a lock down defender. If we put him back (which I don’t support) he needs to play the intercept role as an attacking CHB. As a defender his field kicking would be exposed more than it currently is.

[ratsmac]

Clearly the MC do not see a future with Young or Schache otherwise they would’ve played with Naughton out. Naughton would be wasted as a lock down defender. If we put him back (which I don’t support) he needs to play the intercept role as an attacking CHB. As a defender his field kicking would be exposed more than it currently is.
I do support throwing him back at times. Bevo was BiG on players learning how to play 2 or more positions yet players are rarely moved from their starting position. Naughton is badly need forward for his contested marking as we saw a ripper last night. But a. he needs to find touch and b. we needed to stop Hipwood kicking a match winning bag of 5 goals. But we kept an inexperienced out of his depth Gardener on Hipwood. Why not swap Naughton with Gardner to try stop some bleeding.

[CarnTheScray]

1. The English experiment is over.
2. We are the biggest downhill skiers after the Bombers. As soon as we are challenged we crumble. Mentally weak.
3. We have the most list cloggers in the league.

[azabob]

I do support throwing him back at times. Bevo was BiG on players learning how to play 2 or more positions yet players are rarely moved from their starting position. Naughton is badly need forward for his contested marking as we saw a ripper last night. But a. he needs to find touch and b. we needed to stop Hipwood kicking a match winning bag of 5 goals. But we kept an inexperienced out of his depth Gardener on Hipwood. Why not swap Naughton with Gardner to try stop some bleeding.

My response was having Naughton go back on a permanent basis.

I am of the belief having players learn 2 or more positions has had an impact development and team chemistry.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Clearly the MC do not see a future with Young or Schache otherwise they would’ve played with Naughton out. Naughton would be wasted as a lock down defender. If we put him back (which I don’t support) he needs to play the intercept role as an attacking CHB. As a defender his field kicking would be exposed more than it currently is.

I want him up forward too. But what do we do if Keath goes down with injury?? We have no backup. Le Young won’t be able to go with the big guys.

[AutoFill]

1. The MC should be at Centrelink on Monday applying for Job SEEKER, we have royally screwed premiership windows since 2016.
2. Bevo's / coaching staff are running out of credits, we are not being coached to play accountable football.
3. Macrae is an out and out champion.
Could not agree more on all three points.

[AutoFill]

1. Game winning styles change from season to season and from month to month, but we are still in 2016
2. The top 5 sides have all transitioned to a two ruckman line up - we have not
3. Lewis Young needs to be traded is he's not going to get played. What we are doing to him is borderline cruelty.

[Bulldog Revolution]

1. The decision two years ago to have almost no rucks on the list aside from English and Sweet was monumental stupidity
2. Our inability to keep our feet has reached disgraceful proportions
3. Our marmo eligible players are inconsistent - they produce good moments but then moments later they are producing some shocking contests - sloppy one handed efforts, going to ground or picking out the opposition

[bornadog]

1. The decision two years ago to have almost no rucks on the list aside from English and Sweet was monumental stupidity

Two years ago we thought we had Tom Boyd

[mjp]

I'm upset.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHvUyjWkOgY

[mjp]

1. The AFL has officially removed the dropping the ball rule - they just didn’t tell us



Ummm - There is no such rule and there never has been.

You can be HOLDING the ball. You can dispose of it incorrectly. But you cannot be penalised for 'dropping' the ball...if it is jarred free in a tackle, it is either Holding the ball or play on.

[mjp]

I think Easton Wood is desperately out of form. Having him able to affect a contest and support other back as a 3rd up makes a huge difference, though very hard to do when you’re following Charlie Cameron around

Isn't this just how he has played for nearly 4 years?

[jeemak]

What the fudge did I just watch?

[mjp]

What the fudge did I just watch?

Ummm - if it was the link to WHIPLASH and Miles Teller saying "I'm Upset" then you watched a scene from the movie WHIPLASH where Miles Teller was being bullied by the conductor...

[AshMac]

Ummm - There is no such rule and there never has been.

You can be HOLDING the ball. You can dispose of it incorrectly. But you cannot be penalised for 'dropping' the ball...if it is jarred free in a tackle, it is either Holding the ball or play on.

Yeh technically called incorrect disposal, commonly referred to as dropping the ball informally. Seems you knew what I was referring to.



Isn't this just how he has played for nearly 4 years?

For the most part yes. Had been in good form again recently for a couple of weeks in a row and has dropped back.

[GVGjr]

Two years ago we thought we had Tom Boyd

So were we unaware of his debilitating back injury and about his MH challenges?

[mjp]

Yeh technically called incorrect disposal, commonly referred to as dropping the ball informally. Seems you knew what I was referring to.

I actually wasn't sure. People scream about 'dropping' the ball all the time - which usually means the ball has been knocked free which just isn't a free kick. You should know after all these years that I value your thoughts on here but at the same time I get confused when people talk about umpiring because I can never figure out whether they are complaining about the RULE or the way it is being umpired.

I guess I have found the umpiring somewhat frustrating in general but also think it has had zero impact on the results of our games.





For the most part yes. Had been in good form again recently for a couple of weeks in a row and has dropped back.

I put a poll up about Wood earlier in the year asking if 'one good game' was meaningful and indicated a turn-around in his performances or was just 'one good game'. The consensus at the time seemed to be that with Keith and Crozier playing well, it enabled him to become an interceptor and that was they role he was born for etc. To me though he immediately returned to type and is a low possession defender who has been struggling one-v-one.

[mjp]

So were we unaware of his debilitating back injury and about his MH challenges?

The footy world was well aware of the MH stuff...the back injury? I'm pretty sure we were unaware of the significance of it - but I'm also pretty certain that the time spent doing rehab further dissolved Tom's love of the game...the back injury and the MH stuff went hand-in-hand in a lot of ways.

[GVGjr]

The footy world was well aware of the MH stuff...the back injury? I'm pretty sure we were unaware of the significance of it - but I'm also pretty certain that the time spent doing rehab further dissolved Tom's love of the game...the back injury and the MH stuff went hand-in-hand in a lot of ways.

He missed a lot of footy the previous season with it and apparently sort his own medical advice about it
It's why I can't accept that our lack of ruck man was due to Boyd retiring
The signs were there that he was at best doubtful and yet we ignored that .

[mjp]

He missed a lot of footy the previous season with it and apparently sort his own medical advice about it
It's why I can't accept that our lack of ruck man was due to Boyd retiring
The signs were there that he was at best doubtful and yet we ignored that .

I don't disagree.

I also think that the Rookie list should be getting used for this and we should be selecting a new Rookie ruckman every single year - I have said this 5 million times before. When you have Dean Cox and Aaron Sandilands and goodness knows who else coming through the rookie pathway to be elite AFL ruckman we should be taking the scatter gun approach to finding our own version. Our best ruckman in my memory was Hudson who came through a similar way - albeit as a mature age recruit to the Cows then traded to us...

I guess Sweet is an example of this right now BUT another draft passed last year and I am sure there were opportunities that could have been handed out...

[bornadog]

Just on Wood, I thought he played his role which was to stop Cameron kicking goals. Even before the game, I saw Bevo interviewed and he mentioned curtailing Cameron so it was on the coaches mind. For Wood it was a slightly different role than in previous weeks, but it worked.

I don't understand the comments in the Game day thread that he is cooked.

[GVGjr]

I don't disagree.

I also think that the Rookie list should be getting used for this and we should be selecting a new Rookie ruckman every single year - I have said this 5 million times before. When you have Dean Cox and Aaron Sandilands and goodness knows who else coming through the rookie pathway to be elite AFL ruckman we should be taking the scatter gun approach to finding our own version. Our best ruckman in my memory was Hudson who came through a similar way - albeit as a mature age recruit to the Cows then traded to us...

I guess Sweet is an example of this right now BUT another draft passed last year and I am sure there were opportunities that could have been handed out...

It's a specialized position and our supporters shouldn't want to see the likes of Bontempelli, Macare, Jong and Dunkley in many ruck contests.

I agree that having a ruck man or at least a versatile tall forward or defender on the rookie list is how we should be setting up

[bornadog]

I agree that having a ruck man or at least a versatile tall forward or defender on the rookie list is how we should be setting up

Which we do.

Should we have another ruckman?

[GVGjr]

Which we do.

Should we have another ruckman?

Another ruck man or versatile forward/defender capable of moving into the ruck would be a good investment

[bornadog]

Another ruck man or versatile forward/defender capable of moving into the ruck would be a good investment

Rookie or senior team?

[comrade]

Ummm - if it was the link to WHIPLASH and Miles Teller saying "I'm Upset" then you watched a scene from the movie WHIPLASH where Miles Teller was being bullied by the conductor...

What a movie.

[AshMac]

I get confused when people talk about umpiring because I can never figure out whether they are complaining about the RULE or the way it is being umpired.

I guess I have found the umpiring somewhat frustrating in general but also think it has had zero impact on the results of our games..

Nothing frustrates me more than umpire bashing tbh. It’s got to be one of the hardest jobs around. Having said that, the inconsistency is the killer in a single game. My OP was referring to the tackle on Birchall in the last (I think) qtr. took ball, waited, tackled, dropped ball; play on.

Agree umpires have zero impact on games at least compared to the criticism. Except the goal umpire in the 97 prelim 😉

[SquirrelGrip]

Another ruck man or versatile forward/defender capable of moving into the ruck would be a good investment

Isn’t this Trengove?

[bornadog]

Isn’t this Trengove?

I have asked before, how many ruckmen do you need on a list? Currently we have three, with Sweet not yet tried, but in development.

[GVGjr]

Isn’t this Trengove?

I guess so but not if he isn't going to be played. As it stands we could do with another