Things need to change from the top down

[Vred]

2017 it was the premiership hangover.
2018 it was bad eggs at the club ruining mentality for everybody
2019 it was young pups not ready
2020 what’s the excuse going to be?

What is the Bulldogs football club trying to achieve at the moment? What is their goal for the season? It shouldn’t need to be said that the ultimate goal for any club is to win the cup, and if that truely is our goal, we have a really 2-bit brain dead way of going about it. We SHOULD be fielding our best 22 available every single game but right now we seem to want to put our worst 22 on the ground and hope for a miracle, it’s actually a joke and to see it as a laughing point of fans of other clubs over facebook, reddit, discord, and other mediums is starting to become a bit old, when its a game of ‘’ what terrible choice will our match selection pick this week’’. It needs to change.

Why have we persisted with the same (or literally one off the same) coaching formula now for almost 4 years now? Why haven’t we shuffled around coach spots and the people who sit around Bevo? Right now it DOES seem like we’ve surrounded him with a bunch of nice-guy yes men and it’s getting old. When do the people on our board finally say ‘’enough is enough’’ and demand change? Our coaching panel needs to change.

Richmond. I side I don’t like, I dislike their fans even more, but they are a team of systems, they play to a system and they do it well, the term ‘’plug and play’’ has been thrown around a lot lately, if they have one player out, they put a new one in who knows the system and knows the role they must execute. The dogs have nothing like that, the second we lose one, maybe two players of key positions, our entire game play or structure changes and we look so much worse for it. We are not an adaptable team by any stretch of the imagination. It needs to change.

I’d like to see our entire coaching panel cleaned out, I’d honestly like to see Bevo gone but frankly that won’t happen so we’re stuck with him, but I’m sick of the niceness, the press conferences that amount to ‘’yeah welllll we gotta try hard againnn next weekk’’ I want our club to grow some balls and hold not only crap players accountable but our coaches as well, from Bevo down. Literally anyone knew that picking Gardner this week was dumb, and low and behold, he proved everybody right, but hey, we’re nice, lets give him another week, might as well throw Gowers in there as well for good measure and a sure loss to Adelaide.

I’m incredibly frustrated in our side and what seems to be a lack of passion.

I wish I could change it or at least voice my concerns to the people who have the power to, but I can’t, so I’ll vent here.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

2017 it was the premiership hangover.
2018 it was bad eggs at the club ruining mentality for everybody
2019 it was young pups not ready
2020 what’s the excuse going to be?

What is the Bulldogs football club trying to achieve at the moment? What is their goal for the season? It shouldn’t need to be said that the ultimate goal for any club is to win the cup, and if that truely is our goal, we have a really 2-bit brain dead way of going about it. We SHOULD be fielding our best 22 available every single game but right now we seem to want to put our worst 22 on the ground and hope for a miracle, it’s actually a joke and to see it as a laughing point of fans of other clubs over facebook, reddit, discord, and other mediums is starting to become a bit old, when its a game of ‘’ what terrible choice will our match selection pick this week’’. It needs to change.

Why have we persisted with the same (or literally one off the same) coaching formula now for almost 4 years now? Why haven’t we shuffled around coach spots and the people who sit around Bevo? Right now it DOES seem like we’ve surrounded him with a bunch of nice-guy yes men and it’s getting old. When do the people on our board finally say ‘’enough is enough’’ and demand change? Our coaching panel needs to change.

Richmond. I side I don’t like, I dislike their fans even more, but they are a team of systems, they play to a system and they do it well, the term ‘’plug and play’’ has been thrown around a lot lately, if they have one player out, they put a new one in who knows the system and knows the role they must execute. The dogs have nothing like that, the second we lose one, maybe two players of key positions, our entire game play or structure changes and we look so much worse for it. We are not an adaptable team by any stretch of the imagination. It needs to change.

I’d like to see our entire coaching panel cleaned out, I’d honestly like to see Bevo gone but frankly that won’t happen so we’re stuck with him, but I’m sick of the niceness, the press conferences that amount to ‘’yeah welllll we gotta try hard againnn next weekk’’ I want our club to grow some balls and hold not only crap players accountable but our coaches as well, from Bevo down. Literally anyone knew that picking Gardner this week was dumb, and low and behold, he proved everybody right, but hey, we’re nice, lets give him another week, might as well throw Gowers in there as well for good measure and a sure loss to Adelaide.

I’m incredibly frustrated in our side and what seems to be a lack of passion.

I wish I could change it or at least voice my concerns to the people who have the power to, but I can’t, so I’ll vent here.

I think you've got an absolute right to question what we're doing Vred. I don't agree that Bevo is the issue, but the truth is none of us have an insight into that.
But I do agree with you that if we're not as a club questioning EVERYTHING about what we're doing, then that is something that reflects on people higher up than Bevo.

I don't see a lack of passion, for most weeks anyway. I see really poor skills execution and movement by players at key periods during games.
Is that coach or players? I don't know, but whatever it is, Chris Grant, Peter Gordon need to be asking questions, and reviewing things.
Time is ticking. Unless we right the ship soon, we could see us miss out on making the most of the talent that is currently on our list. Bont is now in his prime years. He's got 5-6 more peak years. He's a generational player of the likes we've not seen since Ted. Let's not waste that talent like we did Ted's years post 54, which apart from 61 were quite bleak for the most part.

I really think we need a review of the like Geelong did when Bomber was almost sacked.
We need to look at our organisational structure and roles. And I do think we need an influx of new ideas. This may be difficult in a COVID-19 environment, but its still needed.
Let's look at what are the elements of Bevo that made him our most successful coach since Charlie Sutton. Let's bring those skills to the fore, and at the same time, lets look to move others into the roles that maybe he is not so good at.
We do really need to assess our Match Committee, that's for sure.
Having said that, whilst I agree Gardner has not shown much thus far, he really was up against it. I watched most of what happened up forward for the Lions in person when Hipwood got a hold of him, and for the most part, he was really on a hiding to nothing, thanks to the poor work upfield.

[Vred]

Having said that, whilst I agree Gardner has not shown much thus far, he really was up against it. I watched most of what happened up forward for the Lions in person when Hipwood got a hold of him, and for the most part, he was really on a hiding to nothing, thanks to the poor work upfield.

I don’t even blame Gardner, hardly, I blame our match committee for throwing him to the wolves the way they have. I watched him at VFL level last year, he was alright then, and honestly don’t see much change compared to now.

What pisses me off is watching Bevo pressers from losses in 2017 and 2018 and they’re almost word for word what his saying now, “oh we lacked intensity”, “basic skill errors were letting us down”, “we need to play 4 quarters and not 3” nothing has changed. Nothing. Not a single thing. I wish our board was seeing this but I have a feeling they’re so love struck with Bevo they’ll let this go until he quits, because hey, he delivered a cup. Yeah. Frustrating.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I don’t even blame Gardner, hardly, I blame our match committee for throwing him to the wolves the way they have. I watched him at VFL level last year, he was alright then, and honestly don’t see much change compared to now.

What pisses me off is watching Bevo pressers from losses in 2017 and 2018 and they’re almost word for word what his saying now, “oh we lacked intensity”, “basic skill errors were letting us down”, “we need to play 4 quarters and not 3” nothing has changed. Nothing. Not a single thing. I wish our board was seeing this but I have a feeling they’re so love struck with Bevo they’ll let this go until he quits, because hey, he delivered a cup. Yeah. Frustrating.

I think, unfortunately, dismiss Bevo's pressers. From what I have heard, first hand about Bevo from his boss at my work, he will give the public NOTHING about his team. What he says publicly is more than likely totally different from what he says indoors. He had a reputation at our work, of wearing on the chin any failures of the team he was responsible for. However within his team he was very clear on giving unflinching feedback, and whilst extremely supportive of his team- backing them and protecting them from external fire - he would not resile from making hard decisions on people who did/could not perform what was required of them.

I think this is a great trait to have in the workplace, but in a professional sporting environment I don't think you have the same luxury of time. I think maybe that's where a review should focus attention on. Let Bevo do what he does well, but remove him from the emotional constraints around personnel decisions.

[GVGjr]

I think this is a great trait to have in the workplace, but in a professional sporting environment I don't think you have the same luxury of time. I think maybe that's where a review should focus attention on. Let Bevo do what he does well, but remove him from the emotional constraints around personnel decisions.

That's an interesting point. I strongly doubt he would like or accept this suggestion but could a coach just coach and lead the team and playing list that is given to them perhaps with just minor input?

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

That's an interesting point. I strongly doubt he would like or accept this suggestion but could a coach just coach and lead the team and playing list that is given to them perhaps with just minor input?

Would it be that dissimilar to how Geelong restructured Bomber Thompson's role?

To me that's where Chris Grant, Peter Gordon and Ahmeet Bains need to show their capabilities in their jobs.

Bevo may need to eat some humble pie and take on board that feedback in order to take his job with us to the next phase.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I think Bevo gave a very instructive presser tonight.
More than what he usually gives.

Clearly was disappointed in what our mids gave around the stoppages especially in the 2nd Qtr.

Also very vehement that Hipwood's influence was not necessarily Gardner's fault.
I can attest to that from what I saw at the ground, behind the goal . I watched Gardner on Hipwood closely in 2nd and 4th Qtr.

Gardner was shoulder to shoulder with Hipwood, but when the ball came in, as play developed, he had ZERO support, and was regularly caught out trying to look at Hipwood or at times McInerny at the same time, and getting nothing from Cordy or Keath in terms of support.

I don't think Gardner is yet a good AFL player, but on tonight's performance I can 100% say he was let down not only by the players upfield, but also by fellow defenders being super slow to react to what was unfolding ahead of them.

[FrediKanoute]

I think Bevo gave a very instructive presser tonight.
More than what he usually gives.

Clearly was disappointed in what our mids gave around the stoppages especially in the 2nd Qtr.

Also very vehement that Hipwood's influence was not necessarily Gardner's fault.
I can attest to that from what I saw at the ground, behind the goal . I watched Gardner on Hipwood closely in 2nd and 4th Qtr.

Gardner was shoulder to shoulder with Hipwood, but when the ball came in, as play developed, he had ZERO support, and was regularly caught out trying to look at Hipwood or at times McInerny at the same time, and getting nothing from Cordy or Keath in terms of support.

I don't think Gardner is yet a good AFL player, but on tonight's performance I can 100% say he was let down not only by the players upfield, but also by fellow defenders being super slow to react to what was unfolding ahead of them.

In a one on one contest you need to at least halve it! If Gardiner is an upgrade on Roberts or the specimen then I am missing somehting!

[SonofScray]

I've slept on it. Woken up even angrier than usual on this topic.

I went relatively early on this, we needed to move on in 2018 as far as I am concerned. But credits in the bank, a trend away from sacking coaches generally and the possibility of a golden generation was still glimmering just enough to hold hope.

For mine, we've seen everything we need to see. All the cards are on the table. Other teams have read those cards too, and they know what to do. For whatever reason, the Beveridge system has run its race, there's no competitive advantage there anymore on game day.

I've never called for a Bulldogs coach to be sacked. It's unpleasant. Disruptive. Concerning.

Sack Bevo.

[Vred]

I've slept on it. Woken up even angrier than usual on this topic.

I went relatively early on this, we needed to move on in 2018 as far as I am concerned. But credits in the bank, a trend away from sacking coaches generally and the possibility of a golden generation was still glimmering just enough to hold hope.

For mine, we've seen everything we need to see. All the cards are on the table. Other teams have read those cards too, and they know what to do. For whatever reason, the Beveridge system has run its race, there's no competitive advantage there anymore on game day.

I've never called for a Bulldogs coach to be sacked. It's unpleasant. Disruptive. Concerning.

Sack Bevo.

My problem with sacking Bevo Is, do they just replace him with another coach and not move the pieces around him? Maybe Peter Gordon has been in the presidents chair too long, I almost feel him + coaching panel need to go and a completely fresh set of eyes and perspective on how to run out club need to be installed, or we’ll do what we did in the 2000’s and piss away another shot at sustained success.

[SonofScray]

My problem with sacking Bevo Is, do they just replace him with another coach and not move the pieces around him? Maybe Peter Gordon has been in the presidents chair too long, I almost feel him + coaching panel need to go and a completely fresh set of eyes and perspective on how to run out club need to be installed, or we’ll do what we did in the 2000’s and piss away another shot at sustained success.
I think it is contained to the footy department. Off field we seem to have pulled the right strings, even if we've gone back into our shell a little in terms of cheeky marketing.

[AshMac]

Interesting thread with lots of emotion. At my most furious - which has been when JJ has the ball the last 2 weeks - I’m done with Bevo, but there are a couple of things conspiring I think that are fixable:

- I’ve heard from someone very close to a current assistant coach that he is an absolute dictator - especially on game day. In the coaches box it is his way or the highway - that’s why Monty left. I’d love to see another ex-senior coach in the assistant panel and some more leeway on game day for other opinions. Very fixable if he is willing

- we are playing week in week out in slippery conditions. There is none of that sheen we have when we look amazing. Will be interesting to see the demons game as I think it’ll be our first afternoon game in qld (?) it gets very dewy in the evening in Queensland and our fast paced, quick hands style looks outstanding with the roof on and allows us to play our 5-8 games in the open a year at a frenetic intensity - now that’s being demanded on us every week and we aren’t conditioned or trained for it. Unlikely fixable until things return to “normal”

- Covid is clearly having an impact on all teams. I know every Victorian team is in the same situation but every player will respond differently and we just look physically tired. So do a lot of teams. Again (hopefully) shortish term and fixable

- we’ve played arguably the 3 best teams over the last 3 weeks - 2 of them at home where the players are sleeping in their own beds with their partners and stuff all around them. Not a great sample size but also the real benchmark of where we’re at. We’ve been given a really cold hard dose of reality in one block - a lot to learn

- Bont still learning the captaincy and will only get better at lifting the boys and himself. He isn’t surrounded by any other strong leadership IMO. We lack on ground leadership end to end. Hunter could be a natural leader - unavoidable given circumstances - but Wallis is the next VC IMO and I’d like to see Dunkley‘a natural confidence coupled with a bit of New mongrel step in. Again - this can improve over time

For me the real issue is our inconsistency and the failure to see sustained improvement over the last 4 years. I’m so fricken tired of being an “almost” team - hyped up by dickhead commentators as a chance when we’re on and so clearly out of the contest when we’re off. Things need to change and the main positive I’m taking from it is there is a way to do so.

“Insanity Is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results”
Einstein

[comrade]

- I’ve heard from someone very close to a current assistant coach that he is an absolute dictator - especially on game day. In the coaches box it is his way or the highway - that’s why Monty left. I’d love to see another ex-senior coach in the assistant panel and some more leeway on game day for other opinions. Very fixable if he is willing


That's not going to be a popular comment.

[AshMac]

That's not going to be a popular comment.

Can’t be helped sometimes. Always interested in views contrary to mine

[bornadog]

It is so easy to just turn on the coach and make presumptions about his style, or what he is doing and what he is not doing. The coach can teach, instruct, set up game plans etc, but once the guys are on the field he is limited. This doesn't mean to say anyone can coach. We know Bevo can coach.

I think the real issue is the players, and it is mostly players in the 50 to 100 game bracket that are not performing. We just don't have the cattle we think we do and we over rate most of them (which is natural because they play for us). For us to win we need our absolute best to be available (eg: Hunter, Duryea). When they are missing or injured, we don't have the depth we think we have.

We can talk about selection, and why certain players are playing, but I see very few players that can come in and make an impact that didn't play last night. May as well give some other players a go and see if they can make it.

Unfortunately we are currently stuck with the group we have, but come year end, we need a clean out of the coodabeens and a complete review of the type of players we have recruited.

[I'm Not Bitter Anymore!]

This season is an aberration I’m not going to judge anyone until our next regular season

[GVGjr]

It is so easy to just turn on the coach and make presumptions about his style, or what he is doing and what he is not doing. The coach can teach, instruct, set up game plans etc, but once the guys are on the field he is limited. This doesn't mean to say anyone can coach. We know Bevo can coach.



I wholeheartedly agree but his job is to address things if players are letting the side down and I wouldn't say that is a strength of Bevo.



I think the real issue is the players, and it is mostly players in the 50 to 100 game bracket that are not performing. We just don't have the cattle we think we do and we over rate most of them (which is natural because they play for us). For us to win we need our absolute best to be available (eg: Hunter, Duryea). When they are missing or injured, we don't have the depth we think we have.

We can talk about selection, and why certain players are playing, but I see very few players that can come in and make an impact that didn't play last night. May as well give some other players a go and see if they can make it.

Unfortunately we are currently stuck with the group we have, but come year end, we need a clean out of the coodabeens and a complete review of the type of players we have recruited.



If it's the players then why is it at the end of the season we don't go harder at addressing it?
You have typically been a strong supporter that we have rung the right changes at the end of the season so I'm a bit confused why you now believe there needs to be a clean out?

I think we've been reluctant to make the hard calls at the end of the season and some of that has to come back to our coaching team to explain. Some of us here have been challenging for a while now.

[bornadog]

I wholeheartedly agree but his job is to address things if players are letting the side down and I wouldn't say that is a strength of Bevo.



If it's the players then why is it at the end of the season we don't go harder at addressing it?
You have typically been a strong supporter that we have rung the right changes at the end of the season so I'm a bit confused why you now believe there needs to be a clean out?

I think we've been reluctant to make the hard calls at the end of the season and some of that has to come back to our coaching team to explain. Some of us here have been challenging for a while now.

I have been reluctant, gee GVGjr I don't understand this comment at all. What I have said is you can only make a certain amount of changes because once you start getting to pick 50 plus it is almost a guessing game and you have to be very good at recruitment, to pickup decent players. Over Bevo's time we have turned over a massive amount of the list, through either delisting or retirements, trades. If you look at the list in 2015 compared to now, we only have 10 players left out of 45 (includes rookies), so that is an average of 7 down per year. Perhaps it should have been more.

However, now is the time to make further cuts of players that are just not going to make it.

[SonofScray]

Perhaps it is Chris Grant that needs to go?

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Can’t be helped sometimes. Always interested in views contrary to mine

I think Comrade meant it won’t be popular as it’ll trigger some people’s insecurities. It’s been suggested Bevo is surrounded by yes men and on hearing that he can be an absolute dictator this COULD back those claims. I’ve never implied Bevo is surrounded by yes men. I would have no idea. But I’ve been challenging our subpar performances for a while now. As per the OP we now have 4 seasons of underwhelming performances. 4 seasons off the back of a premiership with a young group. It’s unheard of. And we’ve heard all the excuses in the book, and whilst some are fair, the others just don’t hold up.
-The playing list has been cut deep over the years yet we’re still asking for it to be cut deep again.
-Players from the premiership who were 19-22 have gone backwards in development.
-We’re not seeing any difference in gameplan.
-Our contested ball ability has gone.
- We have no strong leaders.
-We have no pace.
-Our skills have not improved in 4 years and in some ways have gone backwards.
- We don’t rate the ruck yet get killed there every week and spart from two or three games it’s been a big turning point.
-We recruit 100 HBFs for the same out of date game plan.
- we have nothing that resembles a forward line
- Our defenders are constantly out of position

I could go on (and have a thread dedicated to it). But these issues have been around for years. That to me means you have to question club leadership. We can’t keep blaming the players. Ask yourself: would these players be treading water at other clubs? I can’t help but think even the likes of the Bont could be tearing the comp apart in a Collingwood or Geelong jumper. Bailey Dale could be electric at Richmond. We are stunting the growth of our players because of a stubborn coach and coaching group. I’d prefer a thorough review rather than sack Bev straight up but we CANNOT go into 2021 under the same environment.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

I think Bevo gave a very instructive presser tonight.
More than what he usually gives.

Clearly was disappointed in what our mids gave around the stoppages especially in the 2nd Qtr.

Also very vehement that Hipwood's influence was not necessarily Gardner's fault.
I can attest to that from what I saw at the ground, behind the goal . I watched Gardner on Hipwood closely in 2nd and 4th Qtr.

Gardner was shoulder to shoulder with Hipwood, but when the ball came in, as play developed, he had ZERO support, and was regularly caught out trying to look at Hipwood or at times McInerny at the same time, and getting nothing from Cordy or Keath in terms of support.

I don't think Gardner is yet a good AFL player, but on tonight's performance I can 100% say he was let down not only by the players upfield, but also by fellow defenders being super slow to react to what was unfolding ahead of them.

Was surprised to see Gardner given the responsibility of playing on Hipwood when we had two more regular options in either Cordy or Keath. Losing an experienced defender in Crozier also didn’t help given his marking skill.

[CarnTheScray]

I agree Vrad. We need to find out is it a problem with the coach(es)? Or are the players not listening? If its the coach, move them on. If its the players, why? Move on the ones that offer nothing.

If its both, we are in a dire situation.

[GVGjr]

I have been reluctant, gee GVGjr I don't understand this comment at all. What I have said is you can only make a certain amount of changes because once you start getting to pick 50 plus it is almost a guessing game and you have to be very good at recruitment, to pickup decent players. Over Bevo's time we have turned over a massive amount of the list, through either delisting or retirements, trades. If you look at the list in 2015 compared to now, we only have 10 players left out of 45 (includes rookies), so that is an average of 7 down per year. Perhaps it should have been more.

However, now is the time to make further cuts of players that are just not going to make it.

The problem of a big clean out for us this year is that it coincides with a very compromised draft and there isn't a lot of form to gauge things in Victoria. We are missing a 2nd round pick as well

We will need a savvy Free agency signing

[jeemak]

I hadn't heard that Bevo was a dictator in the coach's box. That's obviously a concern.

I'm all in favour of a thorough review, and I'm also all in favour of more communication from a club that appears to have become more insular than it needs to be.

[jeemak]

The problem of a big clean out for us this year is that it coincides with a very compromised draft and there isn't a lot of form to gauge things in Victoria. We are missing a 2nd round pick as well

We will need a savvy Free agency signing

Has there been any updates on what is likely to happen to list sizes next year and beyond? I'm thinking that many will be let go and it will be difficult to justify bringing in players outside of the draft.

[GVGjr]

Has there been any updates on what is likely to happen to list sizes next year and beyond? I'm thinking that many will be let go and it will be difficult to justify bringing in players outside of the draft.

I haven't seen anything yet but you would imagine it will be reduced by a number
I tend to think you can always find room for a needs based player

[azabob]

Changes need to be made. What changes is the biggest question.

Peter Gordon and Ameet Baines have the club humming off field.

However is Peter Gordon able to see past what Beveridge has achieved to make the hard calls that need to be made?

A few off field decisions have puzzled me at the time and continue to do so.

Brett Montgomery - to me there was friction / falling out between Beveridge and Montgomery which led to Montgomery leaving. I recall a quote from Montgomery on why he left during the season, it went something along the lines of "we had different views on where my career was heading" Montgomery is now back in the AFL system and is working with Ports backline. Interesting.

Graham Lowe: This is an interesting one. He seemed to keep Beveridge on the straight and narrow in 2015 and 2016 and was a real sounding board for Beveridge. With Lowe leaving this left a vacuum.

Chris Maple who coached our VFL team to the flag in 2014 and was removed from that position to a more strategic position overseeing the player development program. Maple is now GM of football and Beveridge right hand man. Maple has been around football a long long time, but based on his career he seems to have a passion for developing and nurturing young talent. Does his skill set suit the GM of football role? Some people in life are "doers" and some are "management"

Player Development: Has Maple moving up the ranks impacted player development?

Player Selection: There does not seem to be any rhyme nor reason why some players are played and some are not.
There does not seem to be any rhyme nor reason why players are played in a variety of positions.
Players really start entering their prime once they hit the 75+ game mark. Ideally players would also play with the same group of players so they build chemistry and become familiar with how each other moves, how they think and what they are likely to do in game. By chopping and changing players position is this impacting development of the whole team?

Assistant Coaches: Obviously this area needs a refresh. But my biggest question is why on earth do we keep rotating what part of the game they look after? Changing the midfield coach, the defensive coach, the VFL coach. Beveridge loves everyone to be versatile, I get it but continuity is also key to success.

List Management- How on earth do we have 17 players with there contracts expiring in 2020 and if we are honest none of them should be on our senior list in 2021. The only player who you could mount a case for is Tyler Duyrea and that is because he has been injured all year.

[bornadog]

The problem of a big clean out for us this year is that it coincides with a very compromised draft and there isn't a lot of form to gauge things in Victoria. We are missing a 2nd round pick as well

We will need a savvy Free agency signing

I did say a clean out of the Coodabeens not a big clean out. However, as you say it would be difficult for a big clean out, which is what is probably needed.

[bornadog]

List Management- How on earth do we have 17 players with there contracts expiring in 2020 and if we are honest none of them should be on our senior list in 2021. The only player who you could mount a case for is Tyler Duyrea and that is because he has been injured all year.

There are 12 senior players (not Rookies, they have different rules of engagement) that are on the list. Of those I would keep Duryea, Jong, Wood and possibly Cavarra leaving 8 possibles to delist. Can't see anything wrong with that.

[azabob]

There are 12 senior players (not Rookies, they have different rules of engagement) that are on the list. Of those I would keep Duryea, Jong, Wood and possibly Cavarra leaving 8 possibles to delist. Can't see anything wrong with that.

I am including the rookies as they their contracts all expire. For all intent and purpose they are senior listed players (other than salary cap).

[bornadog]

I am including the rookies as they their contracts all expire. For all intent and purpose they are senior listed players (other than salary cap).

They do have different rules don't they? Like how long you can keep them?

[Hotdog60]

On the coaching side would Gary Ayres be worth a look as senior assistant or would he be to strong a personality to work along side Bevo.
The reason for Ayres is he's worked under some big name coaches and knows what it takes to win a flag both on and off the field.
The only worry would be that he would be looking at getting the top job and work to undermine Bevo.
But this could happen with any big name you brought in.

[bornadog]

On the coaching side would Gary Ayres be worth a look as senior assistant or would he be to strong a personality to work along side Bevo.
The reason for Ayres is he's worked under some big name coaches and knows what it takes to win a flag both on and off the field.
The only worry would be that he would be looking at getting the top job and work to undermine Bevo.
But this could happen with any big name you brought in.

Good suggestion, but my only worry is he has been at VFL level for a very long time and may not be up with the way AFL is played now? or am I thinking the wrong way? He would be a kind of father figure as well as he is getting on in years, (a good thing) or someone to bounce ideas off.

[azabob]

They do have different rules don't they? Like how long you can keep them?

They do. You need to upgrade or move on. Not sure on exactly the rules around 3rd year rookies but I think all our listed rookies have been on the rookie list for 2 years minimum.

[bornadog]

They do. You need to upgrade or move on. Not sure on exactly the rules around 3rd year rookies but I think all our listed rookies have been on the rookie list for 2 years minimum.

Except Roarke he has been on for ten years now :D:D

[azabob]

On the coaching side would Gary Ayres be worth a look as senior assistant or would he be to strong a personality to work along side Bevo.
The reason for Ayres is he's worked under some big name coaches and knows what it takes to win a flag both on and off the field.
The only worry would be that he would be looking at getting the top job and work to undermine Bevo.
But this could happen with any big name you brought in.

I don't necessarily think Beveridge needs a senior assistant like Ayres or Worsfold what I think we need is fresh ideas.

Beveridge has been around the block before in both the real world and the footy world. It isn't like he is in his early 30's and still learning and needing guidance.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

It’d be weird but Rodney Eade is the type of mind we need. Unfortunately I think Eade and Ayres have been out of the game too long and it’s past them. But we need someone with a good tactical mind. Honestly Monty was perfect. He knows his stuff and had a hard edge.

[Hotdog60]

Good suggestion, but my only worry is he has been at VFL level for a very long time and may not be up with the way AFL is played now? or am I thinking the wrong way? He would be a kind of father figure as well as he is getting on in years, (a good thing) or someone to bounce ideas off.

I just saw how old he is (same age as me so his a young fella). He may well be out of touch and also not interested but the age and experience might be something Bevo would respect if the dictator side of things are true.

[bornadog]

I don't necessarily think Beveridge needs a senior assistant like Ayres or Worsfold what I think we need is fresh ideas.

Beveridge has been around the block before in both the real world and the footy world. It isn't like he is in his early 30's and still learning and needing guidance.

Maybe a Hodge type, someone that has come from a successful team and just recently retired.

I actually don't want any ex Bulldogs back, like a Matthew Boyd, I want some one from say a Richmond, WestCoast who have recently won premierships.

[DOG GOD]

Maybe a Hodge type, someone that has come from a successful team and just recently retired.

I actually don't want any ex Bulldogs back, like a Matthew Boyd, I want some one from say a Richmond, WestCoast who have recently won premierships.

I like the idea of Hodge. I wonder what sort of impact Roughead has had at the saints in the capacity he is in ?
I reckon Burgoyne would have a good footy brain too regarding expectations on mids.

[azabob]

It’d be weird but Rodney Eade is the type of mind we need. Unfortunately I think Eade and Ayres have been out of the game too long and it’s past them. But we need someone with a good tactical mind. Honestly Monty was perfect. He knows his stuff and had a hard edge.

What would Montgomery know? He is only in charge of the ladder leaders defense which has coincided only 557 points and he is known to leave no stone un-turned in his preparation.

[Hotdog60]

I don't necessarily think Beveridge needs a senior assistant like Ayres or Worsfold what I think we need is fresh ideas.

Beveridge has been around the block before in both the real world and the footy world. It isn't like he is in his early 30's and still learning and needing guidance.

That fair enough and I suppose its more on the others being so called yes men if in fact that is true.
Its always going to hard looking from the outside in. I do miss Monty as I was when your on a good thing stick to it.
But even if Monty was still there who to say things would be any better.

[DOG GOD]

How close did Monty get to the big job ?

[azabob]

Maybe a Hodge type, someone that has come from a successful team and just recently retired.

I actually don't want any ex Bulldogs back, like a Matthew Boyd, I want some one from say a Richmond, WestCoast who have recently won premierships.

Yes, that type would be good. Another poster mentioned Nick Riewoldt also or what about Brendan Goddard?

[bornadog]

I like the idea of Hodge. I wonder what sort of impact Roughead has had at the saints in the capacity he is in ?
I reckon Burgoyne would have a good footy brain too regarding expectations on mids.

Roughead has been working from home and yes using Zoom on match day to be there. His wife had a baby and he didn't travel up to Noosa to the hub.

Burgoyne could be ideal to replace our mids coach.

Whatever we say, we do need a refresh in the ranks and perhaps a clear out, but no way Bevo should go.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Maybe a Hodge type, someone that has come from a successful team and just recently retired.

I actually don't want any ex Bulldogs back, like a Matthew Boyd, I want some one from say a Richmond, WestCoast who have recently won premierships.

Yeah this would be ideal. Why not get all three of Hodge, Burgoyne and Riewoldt? 2 of them seem content in their media gigs but this is the type of thing we need to be doing. Anyone have any info on who the next storm go assistant coaches are? If a coach were to be sacked, who would potential candidates be? Note: I’m not asking to replace bevo, I’m asking to see which assistants we could bring in

[westbulldog]

We need to shake up the assistant coaches at the very least. Bring in either someone who is totally ruthless in outlook or someone like Dale Morris who the players would run over broken glass for.

[Remi Moses]

We need to bring in some new voices and ideas
Have no idea what beveridge is like and neither does anyone else
I think we all agree in that we need some sort of different type of game plan as well

[Bullies]

List Management- How on earth do we have 17 players with there contracts expiring in 2020 and if we are honest none of them should be on our senior list in 2021. The only player who you could mount a case for is Tyler Duyrea and that is because he has been injured all year.

Most players sign a 2 to 3 year contract and if there is 45 on the list then 17 players with expiring contracts is not out of the ordinary. The lists also wont be as big next year which will mean a lot of the cloggers will finally be gone. To think we are paying Trengove and Bruce in total over $1m per year over the next couple of years. That would have got us a handy player.

[Bullies]

We need to bring in some new voices and ideas
Have no idea what beveridge is like and neither does anyone else
I think we all agree in that we need some sort of different type of game plan as well There are plenty of good assistants out there at the moment as each of the clubs had to cut costs which meant letting go a number of assistants. No one seems to target our assistant coaches whereas those from Richmond/Hawthorn/Collingwood/West Coast/Swans seem to be the ones other clubs target.

[CarnTheScray]

We criticise certain players all we want but it seems our development program is a shambles. So many players have gone backwards. Remember in 2018 when Richards and Lynch were competing with the likes of Dangerfield and Selwood? It was very assuring to know what young talent we have.

Since then Lynch hasn't gotten a game and Richards has gone backwards. It's not just our youth either. Cordy has gone backwards, JJ has, Bont has believe it or not. Our new recruits have gone backwards. Keith has been okay but quiet, Bruce has gone backwards. Daniel has kept jogging along, he's always been good. Crozier has improved as well as Naughton but that's it. There are many more I could list.

We have butchered our development so I ask this question. At what point is it the fault of the coaches? I'm not saying Beveridge should be sacked, I just want answers.

[GVGjr]

We criticise certain players all we want but it seems our development program is a shambles. So many players have gone backwards. Remember in 2018 when Richards and Lynch were competing with the likes of Dangerfield and Selwood? It was very assuring to know what young talent we have.

Since then Lynch hasn't gotten a game and Richards has gone backwards. It's not just our youth either. Cordy has gone backwards, JJ has, Bont has believe it or not. Our new recruits have gone backwards. Keith has been okay but quiet, Bruce has gone backwards. Daniel has kept jogging along, he's always been good. Crozier has improved as well as Naughton but that's it. There are many more I could list.

We have butchered our development so I ask this question. At what point is it the fault of the coaches? I'm not saying Beveridge should be sacked, I just want answers.

It's not just the coaches it all rests on the total footy department. We have development coaches, list and recruiting managers, a number of coaches and a GM of Footy.
Development is more than teaching a player a few skills, it's about having a comprehensive development plan.

[CarnTheScray]

It's not just the coaches it all rests on the total footy department. We have development coaches, list and recruiting managers, a number of coaches and a GM of Footy.
Development is more than teaching a player a few skills, it's about having a comprehensive development plan.
The term "coach" was more in reference to most of that. Everything to do with the training and development of the players. Our recruitment is actually pretty good. We were able to get Keath and Bruce for SFA and get Weightman. Yet we still find a way to make Bruce go backwards in a team that we assumed was better than the 15th placed Saints.

[bornadog]

The term "coach" was more in reference to most of that. Everything to do with the training and development of the players. Our recruitment is actually pretty good. We were able to get Keath and Bruce for SFA and get Weightman. Yet we still find a way to make Bruce go backwards in a team that we assumed was better than the 15th placed Saints.

Bruce came back in not tip top condition after Lockout 1

Maybe the players we recruited over the past few seasons are not as good as we thought, after all they are late picks. Of Course your number one, or two draft picks can usually perform, but third rounders are a bit of a lottery

[soupman]

Maybe the players we recruited over the past few seasons are not as good as we thought, after all they are late picks. Of Course your number one, or two draft picks can usually perform, but third rounders are a bit of a lottery

That's a complete cop out.

The draft pick number doesn't matter once they're at the club, and we have heaps of players show enough then either disappear off the face of the earth or completely stagnate regardless.

Besides, Schache was a pick 2, certainly isn't improving, and we certainly don't seem to be trying anything different to help him improve.
Richards was a first rounder, hasn't played well for ages, and his kicking which was an asset is now a complete liability to the extent that Billy Gowers shows more care.
Young wasn't a high pick, but has shown plenty of ability at the top level, and even last year appeared to make progress, but now is no where to be seen.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

That's a complete cop out.

The draft pick number doesn't matter once they're at the club, and we have heaps of players show enough then either disappear off the face of the earth or completely stagnate regardless.

Besides, Schache was a pick 2, certainly isn't improving, and we certainly don't seem to be trying anything different to help him improve.
Richards was a first rounder, hasn't played well for ages, and his kicking which was an asset is now a complete liability to the extent that Billy Gowers shows more care.
Young wasn't a high pick, but has shown plenty of ability at the top level, and even last year appeared to make progress, but now is no where to be seen.

Can throw Bontempelli into that mix. Early signs point to Bailey Smith continuing that pattern. How many players on our list could you actually say have improved since our flag?
Wallis
Williams
Daniel
Crozier
Dale at a stretch

Thats basically it. That is horrendous when you consider that we had/have such a young list. Now who wants to write a list of players who have stagnated, gone backwards or just disappeared off the planet?

[GVGjr]

I'm sure our recruitment process considers the strengths, weaknesses and if the player can be coached and has an upside so while not every player is going to make it, the development of the players and the decisions on if we keep them on list is a footy department accountability

If players aren't improving we need to move them on a bit quicker or 'up' our development efforts

[soupman]

Can throw Bontempelli into that mix. Early signs point to Bailey Smith continuing that pattern.

Bont call is harsh, is carrying an injury, is still a dominant force but lacking support. Consider that both our costly quarters these last two games have coincided with Bont being stuck up forward. Also I suspect making the jump from "elite" to "actually the best player in the comp" is bloody hard, and his form can still fluctuate without him having "stagnated".

Smith is also a harsh call, he was being talked up as the best player in his draft and a huge improver as recent as two weeks ago, and is comfortably winning the Marmo despite looking exhausted these last two games.

[azabob]

We have butchered our development so I ask this question. At what point is it the fault of the coaches? I'm not saying Beveridge should be sacked, I just want answers.

Earlier in this thread I referenced our development issues potentially started in 2014 when we started moving Chris Maple away from day to day development of players.

[bornadog]

That's a complete cop out.

The draft pick number doesn't matter once they're at the club, and we have heaps of players show enough then either disappear off the face of the earth or completely stagnate regardless.

Besides, Schache was a pick 2, certainly isn't improving, and we certainly don't seem to be trying anything different to help him improve.
Richards was a first rounder, hasn't played well for ages, and his kicking which was an asset is now a complete liability to the extent that Billy Gowers shows more care.
Young wasn't a high pick, but has shown plenty of ability at the top level, and even last year appeared to make progress, but now is no where to be seen.

I still think we as supporters over rate players.

This is my list of 50/50s



Unknown




Butler, Louis


Cavarra, Ben


Garcia, Riley


Khamis, Buku R


Sweet, Jordon R


Weightman, Cody





Shown some glimpses, but possible over rated


Gardner, Ryan R


Gowers, Billy


Greene, Fergus


Lynch, Bradley


Porter, Callum


Smith, Roarke R


West, Rhylee


Young, Lachie R





Disappointing - should do better but?


Schache, Josh


Young, Lewis


Richards, Ed


Hayes, Will
Lipinski, Pat

The taller players take longer so Schache and Lew Young still have time.

[GVGjr]

Which players do you think supporters have been overrating? Is there any that spring to mind?

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Bont call is harsh, is carrying an injury, is still a dominant force but lacking support. Consider that both our costly quarters these last two games have coincided with Bont being stuck up forward. Also I suspect making the jump from "elite" to "actually the best player in the comp" is bloody hard, and his form can still fluctuate without him having "stagnated".

Smith is also a harsh call, he was being talked up as the best player in his draft and a huge improver as recent as two weeks ago, and is comfortably winning the Marmo despite looking exhausted these last two games.

Ok I agree it is probably harsh. I suppose I'm saying this with a view to the future. I don't think its the fault of Bont or Smith. It's our game style and overall development of players. Both these guys have unlimited potential and huge amounts of talent but are being wasted by playing this handball happy game style that congests the stoppages and forces both of them to go in and get the ball or receive the first handpass under enormous pressure. What a waste that is of their talent. Bailey with his burst speed and ability to deliver inside 50 and Bont with his lethal left foot. We just never get to see them use their talents as they're constantly stuck in mud that we create for them. We need some mids to get their hands dirty and sacrifice their game for these two.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Every supporter group overrates their players when things are going well (or straight after the draft) and underrates when things are going bad. I don't think our players individually are that bad. For mine, our list is too one dimensional and has holes as a result. Recruiting HBFer after HBFer will probably do that.

[bornadog]

Which players do you think supporters have been overrating? Is there any that spring to mind?

I would say all other than the Unknowns. Maybe they just aren't up to it?

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Here's a scary thought. Imagine our backline right now if we had failed to recruit Keath.......

[bornadog]

Here's a scary thought. Imagine our backline right now if we had failed to recruit Keath.......

Second half of last year we had the best defense in the AFL, ie conceded the least goals. I thought with Keath we could boost this, or at least be more consistent

[bulldogsthru&thru]

My Take:


I still think we as supporters over rate players.

This is my list of 50/50s



Unknown




Butler, Louis Still has time.


Cavarra, Ben Hasn't had enough opportunity]


[TD]Garcia, Riley [B]Obvious reasons


Khamis, Buku R Finally heard something about him today in the scratch match report


Sweet, Jordon R Never been given a chance so who knows


Weightman, Cody High draft pick. Haven't really liked what I've seen to be honest but the kid is raw so has time on his side





Shown some glimpses, but possible over rated


Gardner, Ryan R What glimpse have you seen? Got hung out to dry on the weekend but he struggled to even attempt a spoil


Gowers, Billy Seen enough to know he won't make it


Greene, Fergus Had a purple patch but hasn't been seen since


Lynch, Bradley Is he still alive?


Porter, Callum Has a go but VFL quality I'm afraid


Smith, Roarke R VFL


West, Rhylee He'll be a decent depth player. As in best 22 depth. I like what I've seen. But he's in the bucket of 1 bad game and you're out.


Young, Lachie R Has his uses. Nothing special but is good backup





Disappointing - should do better but?


Schache, Josh It's pretty obvious with Josh. Has amazing talent but just doesn't put in the required effort week to week. Talls take time yes but we're not giving him much time when we drop him straight away


Young, Lewis Hopefully is still alive.


Richards, Ed Just needs to work on his skills and then will be a very good player


Hayes, Will Similar to La Young. But we're not playing him anymore so who knows.
Lipinski, Pat Needs some mongrel about him to take it to the next level. He's a cream player so will be more useful once we get some more grunt in the middle

The taller players take longer so Schache and Lew Young still have time.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Second half of last year we had the best defense in the AFL, ie conceded the least goals. I thought with Keath we could boost this, or at least be more consistent

I think that may have been more a reflection on the competition we were facing. I too thought Keath would boost us but we still look a tall FB short (no pun intended). Most of the issues are:
-the defenders look lost in where to position themselves
-we lack a tall full back who can take the opponents tall forward
-Wood has really fallen away
-Midfield is giving the defence not much chance to do anything

[Danjul]

My Take:

The taller players take longer so Schache and Lew Young still have time.


In my opinion Schache has proven himself.

Round 2 last year: a match winning 4 goals. 2 games later-dropped.

Returned mid season: played 8 and a half games for 20 goals.

Season performance: kicked more than 2 goals 5 times for an average close to 2.

He is the same as Dale. Build a game plan around their talents and they deliver.

Last year Dale and Schache combined for 40 goals in our winning streak, this year they are invisible and nobody will kick the ball near them. Go figure.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

In my opinion Schache has proven himself.

Round 2 last year: a match winning 4 goals. 2 games later-dropped.

Returned mid season: played 8 and a half games for 20 goals.

Season performance: kicked more than 2 goals 5 times for an average close to 2.

He is the same as Dale. Build a game plan around their talents and they deliver.

Last year Dale and Schache combined for 40 goals in our winning streak, this year they are invisible and nobody will kick the ball near them. Go figure.

Yeah a forward line of Bruce, Schache, Naughton, Wallis, Lloyd and Dale is ideal. All those guys have qualities to their game that can be a weapon. I don't think it's too tall as Schache can cover a lot of ground and play up the wings. The only issue is we have no speed to apply forward pressure. But we don't really have anyone on the list who can do that anyway.

How many times have we seen this lineup? Not once.

[kruder]

Yeah a forward line of Bruce, Schache, Naughton, Wallis, Lloyd and Dale is ideal. All those guys have qualities to their game that can be a weapon. I don't think it's too tall as Schache can cover a lot of ground and play up the wings. The only issue is we have no speed to apply forward pressure. But we don't really have anyone on the list who can do that anyway.

How many times have we seen this lineup? Not once.

Forgetting Vandermeer? He has more AFL attributes than Lloyd will ever have. I think West can also rotate through there to add some pressure also.

I agree in the sense that continuity will help with Naughty back in, lets hope Bevo can leave them long enough to gel(apart from Lloyd that is ;)

[comrade]

Yeah a forward line of Bruce, Schache, Naughton, Wallis, Lloyd and Dale is ideal. All those guys have qualities to their game that can be a weapon. I don't think it's too tall as Schache can cover a lot of ground and play up the wings. The only issue is we have no speed to apply forward pressure. But we don't really have anyone on the list who can do that anyway.

How many times have we seen this lineup? Not once.

Wallis, Lloyd and Dale in 1 forward line is a recipe for disaster, IMO. The days of marking mid sized forwards who can't pressure and kick goals in traffic are over.

Look at Richmond, St Kilda, Brisbane, Port. All high scoring teams with a few big guys and a whole bunch of speedy smalls. Our forward line is treacle slow compared to theirs.

[Danjul]

Yeah a forward line of Bruce, Schache, Naughton, Wallis, Lloyd and Dale is ideal. All those guys have qualities to their game that can be a weapon. I don't think it's too tall as Schache can cover a lot of ground and play up the wings. The only issue is we have no speed to apply forward pressure. But we don't really have anyone on the list who can do that anyway.

How many times have we seen this lineup? Not once.
I think the concept of forward pressure is overrated. We want the forwards moving away from each other, to open up the defenders and allow good access to goals.

At the moment everyone is running towards the ball, I assume to be in position to apply pressure. All they are succeeding in doing is getting in each other’s way.

We didn’t have much forward pressure in last year’s winning streak. Players opened up, led away from each other and made good targets. Allowing quality entry by foot.

Now I’ve thought about it, being obsessed with pressure and handball is killing us.

[Grantysghost]

I think the concept of forward pressure is overrated. We want the forwards moving away from each other, to open up the defenders and allow good access to goals.

At the moment everyone is running towards the ball, I assume to be in position to apply pressure. All they are succeeding in doing is getting in each other’s way.

We didn’t have much forward pressure in last year’s winning streak. Players opened up, led away from each other and made good targets. Allowing quality entry by foot.

Now I’ve thought about it, being obsessed with pressure and handball is killing us.

Not sure about this. Its a territory game. You get it in your forward "zone" you want to setup well defensively by pushing your defenders up the ground and use your forwards to create enough pressure when they have it as to cause a rushed kick out and create those repeat entries.
Look at the gold standard. Castagna isn't a great forward. But he's a tackling beast and anaerobic guy who causes that pressure.
Dalhaus for all his detractors was a champion at this. This year, shorter quarters maybe has assisted teams like Port and the Aints. Not sure how you can plan for that.
Get your point but think it is important nowadays.

[Danjul]

Not sure about this. Its a territory game. You get it in your forward "zone" you want to setup well defensively by pushing your defenders up the ground and use your forwards to create enough pressure when they have it as to cause a rushed kick out and create those repeat entries.
Look at the gold standard. Castagna isn't a great forward. But he's a tackling beast and anaerobic guy who causes that pressure.
Dalhaus for all his detractors was a champion at this. This year, shorter quarters maybe has assisted teams like Port and the Aints. Not sure how you can plan for that.
Get your point but think it is important nowadays.

If the ball is entering well it’s going to one of our players. It should be at least a 35% chance he will mark it because he is away from his opponent. Then it should be a shot on goal. If he misses the kick then he mans up next to his opponent.

What I cannot figure out is the last part. At present it is common to see the opposition take the ball all the way into our defensive area without one of our players being within 15metres of them. That’s where I want to see pressure. Our guys trot in to stand the mark. All they are applying pressure to is grass.

Be away from opponent when ball is coming in, be next to opponent when ball is going out. The tv might give a misleading impression but it looks like our game plan has this back to front on our forward line.

[Grantysghost]

If the ball is entering well it’s going to one of our players. It should be at least a 35% chance he will mark it because he is away from his opponent. Then it should be a shot on goal. If he misses the kick then he mans up next to his opponent.

What I cannot figure out is the last part. At present it is common to see the opposition take the ball all the way into our defensive area without one of our players being within 15metres of them. That’s where I want to see pressure. Our guys trot in to stand the mark. All they are applying pressure to is grass.

Be away from opponent when ball is coming in, be next to opponent when ball is going out. The tv might give a misleading impression but it looks like our game plan has this back to front on our forward line.

Yep agree. Its that pushing up into the face of an already unsure defender (due to good behind the ball structure) with speed and intensity that I want to see. Is it effort based ? Or do we just not have the personnel? West for me is someone that could bring this before a midfield move. I'd have him as a regular.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Wallis, Lloyd and Dale in 1 forward line is a recipe for disaster, IMO. The days of marking mid sized forwards who can't pressure and kick goals in traffic are over.

Look at Richmond, St Kilda, Brisbane, Port. All high scoring teams with a few big guys and a whole bunch of speedy smalls. Our forward line is treacle slow compared to theirs.

I agree we need some speedy smalls to apply pressure. But we don’t have a single player like that on our list so this is the best we’ve got

[CarnTheScray]

Once we get a quick small forward at the club say goodbye to Dale and Lloyd.

[Danjul]

Once we get a quick small forward at the club say goodbye to Dale and Lloyd.

In the last 10 games last year we played 4 talls. English, Naughton, Schache and Trengove. We also played Dale and Lloyd.

We cut back on the frantic stuff and focused on delivery by foot, allowing players up the field to make good position.

What handball we had was used well to players moving into better position.

Result: The best football in years, and some of the games were better than 2016.

So what did the Selectors do for the final?

They omitted Trengove, Then Naughton got injured. Then GWS was too strong, we made no positional moves to protect our play makers. We even helped GWS by putting Bont in the ruck so he became an easy target.

What did we learn? Nothing. We went back to the same game plan that failed in the first half of 2019. Pure genius!

[GVGjr]

Look at Richmond, St Kilda, Brisbane, Port. All high scoring teams with a few big guys and a whole bunch of speedy smalls. Our forward line is treacle slow compared to theirs.

The sides that are performing well all have a couple of tall forwards and some footy smart mid sized forwards around them

We need to stick with Vandermeer who's got a point of difference with some of our other forwards

[comrade]

The sides that are performing well all have a couple of tall forwards and some footy smart mid sized forwards around them

We need to stick with Vandermeer who's got a point of difference with some of our other forwards

Yeah, Vanders has definitely been a bright spot for us this year. Let's hope he doesn't disappear in 2021.

[Danjul]

The sides that are performing well all have a couple of tall forwards and some footy smart mid sized forwards around them

We need to stick with Vandermeer who's got a point of difference with some of our other forwards

Vandermeer is like Richards, only better.

But I think he was given time to learn in the VFL, not sure Richards was.

[Danjul]

Correct me if I’m wrong but when we played the more deliberate game plan in late 2019 ...

Schache. 20 goals
Dale: 20+ goals
Lloyd: 15 goals
Naughton: 12 goals

That’s 70 goals in 10 games.

We don’t need everyone being fast in the forward line. These guys knew where the ball was going and they were good enough to get it.

Now, they have not got a clue about where the ball is heading, and when they get on their own they are ignored. Daniel is the only one who holds the ball long enough to see a good target. The others just handball it away. (Slight exaggeration).

Whose fault?

[The Doctor]

Perhaps it is Chris Grant that needs to go?

Not sure he needs to go but deserves to be in the spotlight I think.

[bornadog]

Not sure he needs to go but deserves to be in the spotlight I think.

I don't understand why?

[comrade]

I don't understand why?

All leaders within the football department should be under the spotlight.

[bornadog]

All leaders within the football department should be under the spotlight.

Sure, but why does he have to go? What is the issue?

[Danjul]

Sure, but why does he have to go? What is the issue?
Nobody needs to go, somebody needs to analyse our performances and utilise what works for us.

And it’s not short and handball.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Yeah, Vanders has definitely been a bright spot for us this year. Let's hope he doesn't disappear in 2021.

....to that place to nowhere where Lewis Young and Brad Lynch are floating.

RocketScience can you bulldogify this Simpson’s gif??

https://i.postimg.cc/W1Kf6j5P/C89519-CA-1-C1-C-447-F-A6-CF-BAC4-A9-B01-FE4.gif (https://postimages.org/)

[Mantis]

Second half of last year we had the best defense in the AFL, ie conceded the least goals. I thought with Keath we could boost this, or at least be more consistent

Was that more to do with our midfield dominance or the efforts of our defenders?

[Eastdog]

We need to bring in some new voices and ideas
Have no idea what beveridge is like and neither does anyone else
I think we all agree in that we need some sort of different type of game plan as well

Yes it couldn’t hurt. Bevo being the main guy but having new assistants around him. A fresh outlook.

[bornadog]

Was that more to do with our midfield dominance or the efforts of our defenders?

Probably a bit of both. I do think when Duryea came back from injury, we seem to be better organised.

[Danjul]

Was that more to do with our midfield dominance or the efforts of our defenders?
I would suggest both.

I think our defenders have been very good this year.

But in some games they have been under enormous pressure. Why?

That’s the elephant in the room. Nobody can see it because nobody is looking for it. They are staring at something else.

[AshMac]

I would suggest both.

I think our defenders have been very good this year.

But in some games they have been under enormous pressure. Why?

That’s the elephant in the room. Nobody can see it because nobody is looking for it. They are staring at something else.

I don’t understand why we never change our centre bounce setup to either: A. Work the tap of the opposition ruckman against English, B. Play a close check and kill the ball bringing others around the next contest or C. Tag a player at center bounces only. I don’t think we had a centre clearance in the 3rd quarter on Saturday.

It’s not the only issue - there is the DMZ that seems to form in some games where we can’t clear it more than 150m from our goal and the horrendous lack of contested marking over the last 4 weeks - but when a team is not only clearing it, but getting relatively unpressured kicks into the F50 from centre bounces time and time again it’s puts pressure on mids and defenders.

[Bullies]

Probably a bit of both. I do think when Duryea came back from injury, we seem to be better organised. I agree with Duryea. Watched him last year playing in Ballarat and being close to the play as you are at the ground and he just controlled the back line. Yelling all the time for guys to come back, where to go and when to leave their opponents. He was the General down back.

[Rocket Science]

I agree with Duryea. Watched him last year playing in Ballarat and being close to the play as you are at the ground and he just controlled the back line. Yelling all the time for guys to come back, where to go and when to leave their opponents. He was the General down back.

It's almost as if he came from a club with an organised, disciplined system.

Intriguing.

[Bulldog4life]

It's almost as if he came from a club with an organised, disciplined system.

Intriguing.

Who are going worse than us.;)

[Rocket Science]

Who are going worse than us.;)

Indeed, thank christ.

Reckon I could cop falling off the inevitable cliff if we had four flags to console us though.