Trade Dunkley

[Dry Rot]

So if Dunkley is off to the Bombers, do we try to prise Papley out of Sydney with the traded picks?

[mjp]

Most human beings have an almost infinite capacity for taking things for granted. That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons of history.
– Huxley

[Happy Days]

Now that its apparently a real chance, we’re taking the piss if we let him go. I’m so sick of our piss weak co-operative approach to list management, it gets you nowhere.

[bornadog]

Um, so Tom Browne just said Dunkley has told the club he wants to go to Essendon

I don’t feel so good guys.

Tom Browne says he has been told Dunks wants to go to Essendon. Not sure who is telling him that.

[Happy Days]

Now that its apparently a real chance, we’re taking the piss if we let him go. I’m so sick of our piss weak co-operative approach to list management, it gets you nowhere.

Okay wow that changes everything.

This is not good at all.

[bornadog]

Okay wow that changes everything.

This is not good at all.



Mark Stevens
@Stevo7AFL
·
2m
Have just spoken to @westernbulldogs, CEO Ameet Bains re Josh Dunkley.

His statement:
“It’s not happening. He’s not going anywhere”.
Dunkley 2 years to run on deal.

[Happy Days]

Mark Stevens
@Stevo7AFL
·
2m
Have just spoken to @westernbulldogs, CEO Ameet Bains re Josh Dunkley.

His statement:
“It’s not happening. He’s not going anywhere”.
Dunkley 2 years to run on deal.

Okay now I *actually* feel better

[bornadog]

Okay now I *actually* feel better

Is it a case of - These journos love to manufacture a story or Dunks saw big dollars in front of him, but club told him to get F you have a contract

[mjp]

Isn't this a scenario we have seen played out 3-billion times before:

- Player is happy (and admits so).
- Player is approached by another club and offered 'stuff'
- Player suddenly is not quite as happy

We see this happen time and again and it always leads to comments like "why do we even have contracts" etc...but the game has always been like this.

To me - right now - Dunks should be the club captain. But he isn't. And that's OK.
To me - right now - he should be our #1 inside mid. But he isn't. And that's also OK.

The fact that Essendon are reminding him of the above two points and promising him more money and less stress has him rethinking decisions he made 12+ months ago...well, that doesn't make him a bad person.

It also doesn't mean we should let him go - we are under no obligation to do so - but at the same time if Essendon really are hunting him, then we need to take advantage of that. I'm not even sure what they have so I don't know what to ask for, but if Dunks wants to go because Essendon have the 'hots' for him, well, it is good sense to listen and take advantage.

He isn't our best player, but he IS a very good one. He flashed a lot during the back-end of 2019 and injury cruelled him this year...who knows where he might have got too given a clean run.

[mjp]

Mark Stevens
@Stevo7AFL
·
2m
Have just spoken to @westernbulldogs, CEO Ameet Bains re Josh Dunkley.

His statement:
“It’s not happening. He’s not going anywhere”.
Dunkley 2 years to run on deal.

Bains can say whatever he wants. You and I both know that if this is "REAL" (Essendon and Dunks both want it) then this statement isn't the end.

[bornadog]

Bains can say whatever he wants. You and I both know that if this is "REAL" (Essendon and Dunks both want it) then this statement isn't the end.

We don't know the true story of what Dunks has said, especially with HUN and Channel 7 reporters

I am not getting emotional at all on this until trade week starts and finishes.

[mjp]

I am not getting emotional at all on this until trade week starts and finishes.

I'm not either...but like I "quoted" earlier, this is not the first time ever this has happened. Where there is smoke there is fire AND the CEO saying "nothing to see here" does not make it so.

[Rocket Science]

My dudes this is TOM freakin BROWNE.

When someone who isn't a weird, attention-starved bedwetter claims to know more I'll start worrying.

[jeemak]

What would he be on with us? $600k p.a.? Maybe $650K p.a.?

[hujsh]

This could all just be Essendon changing the media narrative that they're a basket case.

But if Dunks does want to go it has to be for a very very good deal. AMD+picks or the currency needed to get someone who fills a need (Papley is an ideal suggestion if he can be convinced to come)

Otherwise wait it out and see if he's still so keep to leave next year.

[EasternWest]

Bains can say whatever he wants. You and I both know that if this is "REAL" (Essendon and Dunks both want it) then this statement isn't the end.

If it's true that Dunkley has told them he wants to go. We all know it's a done deal.

[The Underdog]

If it's true that Dunkley has told them he wants to go. We all know it's a done deal.

You’re right, and if so, then we need to *!*!*!*! over Essendon for everything they’ve got and more

[Happy Days]

Why would we let him go. He’s got two years on good coin to get over it. I don’t get it at all.

[Rocket Science]

Yeah, little Tommy's being played by Essington for the clicks?

https://i.ibb.co/syj832J/Screen-Shot-2020-10-24-at-5-44-28-pm.png (https://ibb.co/86M1804)

Surely not.

[comrade]

If it's true that Dunkley has told them he wants to go. We all know it's a done deal.

Papley?

[The bulldog tragician]

If it's true that Dunkley has told them he wants to go. We all know it's a done deal.

Why would we? Suppose it is Bont saying he wants to go? He is contracted. Would we be sighing, cutting our losses, and just looking for the best trade?

Dunkley is contracted. I’ll be appalled if we entertain any discussions or stuff around about this.

[Mitcha]

Isn't punchable head Browne an Essendope supporter? Hopefully just a deflection to cover up their inadequacies.

[comrade]

Twomey has tweeted that Essendon have an offer out to Kyle Dunkley which is part of Josh’s decision.

I knew Essendon would do that, called it days ago.

[Grantysghost]

So the game begins. If he says he wants out, we play the straight bat and say "contract" until something nice jiggles out in a possible trade. We have all the cards here. I really can't see it happening. But I'm happy our messaging is "contract". Bains speaking to it does give it some validity I believe.

[chef]

900k a year and play as only as mid, who could blame him.

[azabob]

Um, so Tom Browne just said Dunkley has told the club he wants to go to Essendon

I don’t feel so good guys.

So now do you think we should’ve looked to re-negotiate his current deal?

[Grantysghost]

Anyone want this? Going cheap. I will part with it on a payment plan, $45 to be paid in 5 x $9 instalments.

https://i.postimg.cc/mDbHd0TB/20201024-181226.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Twomey has tweeted that Essendon have an offer out to Kyle Dunkley which is part of Josh’s decision.

I knew Essendon would do that, called it days ago.

And Josh can’t see through this? They’re holding his brother’s playing future ransom as I’m assuming they don’t recruit him if he says no.

They’re gonna have to pay massive overs. Just flip the tables on Dodo. We’ve nothing lose as he’s got 2 years left. Plenty of ready to go players will be required.

[Happy Days]

So now do you think we should’ve looked to re-negotiate his current deal?

I think we should hold him to his deal and not do our best to be fair and reasonable and make another side better.

[EasternWest]

Papley?

That's fair.

I'll change my point to "I think it will get done".

For the record, I don't blame Josh at all. If that's the dollars, he's insane not to want to do it.

[Happy Days]

Maybe we can cash in all that equity we won from being fair in the Crameri deal?

[GVGjr]

Um, so Tom Browne just said Dunkley has told the club he wants to go to Essendon

I don’t feel so good guys.

And the reasons being mentioned are because of not being used in the midfield and playing too much in the ruck

Until there is something more credible than 'Essendon believe the player is wanting out' I'm going to back the player and the club here.

I'm still not concerned.

[GVGjr]

Anyone want this? Going cheap. I will part with it on a payment plan, $45 to be paid in 5 x $9 instalments.

https://i.postimg.cc/mDbHd0TB/20201024-181226.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

I'll buy it off you for $45 but on the proviso you buy it back off me for $90 if Josh Dunkley is still playing for us next season? :)

[Grantysghost]

I'll buy it off you for $45 but on the proviso you buy it back off me for $90 if Josh Dunkley is still playing for us next season? :)

Done, I'll even throw in a Kyle Dunkley trading card.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

If this happens, IF, then we need to turn this into a Tom Boyd for Ryan Griffen moment otherwise no deal.

Twomey also said Dunkley has not decided yet. So Browne has gone early.

[ReLoad]

Hypothetically;

Is this just Essendon being asshats, deflecting and also trying to destabilise us, Irrespective of if they want him or not.

Why don’t we get into Ridley and do exactly the same thing?

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Better yet get into Josh Kelley’s eat and tel Essendon if giants don’t deal then neither do we.

[GVGjr]

Done, I'll even throw in a Kyle Dunkley trading card.

Great deal, win, win , win :)

[Happy Days]

So why do we let him go? I still don’t understand why we would or why anyone thinks we have to.

[GVGjr]

Hypothetically;

Is this just Essendon being asshats, deflecting and also trying to destabilise us, Irrespective of if they want him or not.

Why don’t we get into Ridley and do exactly the same thing?

I suspect Essendon is using their media connections to talk it up. Lets wait to hear from Stevo

[bulldogsthru&thru]

So why do we let him go? I still don’t understand why we would or why anyone thinks we have to.

Exactly. We don’t have to. We’ll have to receive an unbelievable, too good to be true, offer to let him go. He has TWO years to go on his deal. It’s not like the bombers can just wait out a year. They’ll go after someone else in that time. We have all the cards.

[I'm Not Bitter Anymore!]

Don’t contracts mean anything? Or is saying you want to go enough to break them?

[EasternWest]

Twomey has tweeted that Essendon have an offer out to Kyle Dunkley which is part of Josh’s decision.

I find this so condescending, I don't know why.

[GVGjr]

So why do we let him go? I still don’t understand why we would or why anyone thinks we have to.

We don't and we won't. People are speculating because the media is.

[Happy Days]

We’re seriously so piss weak in these situations and always have been so he probably goes if he wants to because we’re just so nice and seem more concerned with making sure that Essendon are a good side than we are with our own fortunes. I can’t think of one time that we’ve gone into a trade negotiation and come out ahead.

[DOG GOD]

The starting point would have to be AMT and Essendon 2021 1st pick. (Which would probably be in the top 5-6)

[DOG GOD]

We’re seriously so piss weak in these situations and always have been so he probably goes if he wants to because we’re just so nice and seem more concerned with making sure that Essendon are a good side than we are with our own fortunes. I can’t think of one time that we’ve gone into a trade negotiation and come out ahead.

Exactly...we will bend over like always.

[I'm Not Bitter Anymore!]

I’m still annoyed with Callan Ward going all those years ago and the opinion that this was modern football and he had to go because the money was irresistible

[bulldogsthru&thru]

They could offer deals like these to any clubs. Honestly I’m a little offended they’ve gone after us. Feels like they think they can pick on us small pickings

[GVGjr]

We’re seriously so piss weak in these situations and always have been so he probably goes if he wants to because we’re just so nice and seem more concerned with making sure that Essendon are a good side than we are with our own fortunes. I can’t think of one time that we’ve gone into a trade negotiation and come out ahead.


Exactly...we will bend over like always.

Why are we being critical of the club over speculation? The facts are that we signed a good player to a long term deal, he's been promoted to a VC and leadership role and one of his best mates is the captain of the club.

[ReLoad]

If the rumours of the amount of money being thrown at him are true, he simply has to take it. A football career is short, brutal and unforgiving.

Still sucks for us, and he would be burning his bridge, but I can’t be angry at him.

[azabob]

I’m still annoyed with Callan Ward going all those years ago and the opinion that this was modern football and he had to go because the money was irresistible

Don’t bring that up again, our list manager at the time shit the bed big time with that deal.

[comrade]

I find this so condescending, I don't know why.

Playing with someone’s career like a toy and a bit of emotional black mail thrown in for good measure. It’s dirty tricks for sure.

[azabob]

They could offer deals like these to any clubs. Honestly I’m a little offended they’ve gone after us. Feels like they think they can pick on us small pickings

He is good enough to play starting midfield. He currently doesn’t. Essendon recognised this and acted accordingly.
I have no issue with Essendon coming after him.

I will be disappointed if he leaves but I won’t be offended.

[The bulldog tragician]

I’m still annoyed with Callan Ward going all those years ago and the opinion that this was modern football and he had to go because the money was irresistible

At least he was out of contract though it broke my heart.

If contracts are so easy to break if there’s a change of heart, then let’s just pay year by year.

Is there no rule against approaching contracted players?

[Mitcha]

Won't feel comfortable with this until Dunks himself or even best mate Bont come out and refute all the talk. We have apparently heard that the CEO says it is not happening but that may just be toeing the company line similar to what we did with Stringer.

[Eastdog]

I tend to avoid the trade talk type threads. I hope Dunks will be staying.

[Funke disco]

I hope Dunkley stays and will be disappointed if he leaves but this is football these days. If the Bombers are offering him 800-900k a year then that should be reflected in whatever offer they put forward to make this deal happen if not, play out your 2 years Dunkley and watch Essendon burn to the ground from a distance hopefully with enough insight to be thankful you never went to the place.

[Topdog]

I just can't believe that a Tom Browne story has generated so much chat. He gets nothing right

[Grantysghost]

Why are we being critical of the club over speculation? The facts are that we signed a good player to a long term deal, he's been promoted to a VC and leadership role and one of his best mates is the captain of the club.

I think we need to be thankful we have him locked away, that's good contract management. You can't control what other clubs do but we have our ducks in a row at least.

[Rocket Science]

*If* this has legs and inking Kyle is contingent solely upon Josh's signature that tells you all you need to know about Essington values.

As if we needed another reminder.

"Oh yeah, we've got your puppy too Josh. Give us what we want and he'll be fine mate"

[The Bulldogs Bite]

You just know we'll cave.

[Bulldog Revolution]

If the rumours of the amount of money being thrown at him are true, he simply has to take it. A football career is short, brutal and unforgiving.

Still sucks for us, and he would be burning his bridge, but I can’t be angry at him.

Because he has two years remaining - he will only go if we get an offer we want otherwise it’s pretty easy to say no

[chef]

If a players wants to leave you dont hang onto them. Just need to play hard ball and not get bent over.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I really rate Dunks, and I do not want to lose him.
However, I'm also confident that this is one of those scenario's where it only happens if a) Dunks wants it AND b) the offer is too good for us to turn back.
This isn't Stringer time when we had very little leverage. We rate Dunks, he's got 2 years to go. He ain't going anywhere unless its a sweetheart deal for us and him. I suspect our position doesn't change, unless we could somehow leverage this trade to address some bigger structural needs.
Dodo will have to uncharacteristically go against his 'winning trade week' mentality if this is to get done. He has ZERO leverage.

[Happy Days]

Why are we being critical of the club over speculation? The facts are that we signed a good player to a long term deal, he's been promoted to a VC and leadership role and one of his best mates is the captain of the club.

We’ve earned the rep G.

[Bullies]

We can't get bent over here. We have all the cards.

I like Dunks as a player but he is not the type you pay $950k for. He is not elite. This will come back and bite Essendon.

We can use the picks to get the elite key defender/ruckman. We need to go hard at the other clubs like they do to us.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Where is 950k a season coming from? I’m sure it’s not that high.

[bornadog]

We can't get bent over here. We have all the cards.

I like Dunks as a player but he is not the type you pay $950k for. He is not elite. This will come back and bite Essendon.

We can use the picks to get the elite key defender/ruckman. We need to go hard at the other clubs like they do to us.

What would Dunks be on now?

[Bullies]

Where is 950k a season coming from? I’m sure it’s not that high. Apologies $900k

$4.5m over 5 years

[Bullies]

What would Dunks be on now? Mail i got was his salary would double

[Bullies]

Big commitment too by Essendon putting his brother on the list when the lists will be smaller next year and he hasn't exactly shown he can play.

[jeemak]

Mail i got was his salary would double

I'd be surprised if he's not on a bit more than $450K but if that's what he's signed on to for another two years no wonder he wants to take up the EFC offer.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Big commitment too by Essendon putting his brother on the list when the lists will be smaller next year and he hasn't exactly shown he can play.

Clearly show they’re desperate. Then they’ll turn around and say pick 17 or something which won’t match their desperation. It’ll be great being in control.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Big commitment too by Essendon putting his brother on the list when the lists will be smaller next year and he hasn't exactly shown he can play.

They can afford to given how rubbish their list is.

I'd like to see us head hunt a player, only time I can recall doing it is with Boyd after we lost Griffen. Are we overpaying some of our mid tier players?

[bornadog]

Mail i got was his salary would double

If this is all true, why wouldn't a 23 year old take $4.5 million. It is not lack of good management by our club as some are alluding to, it is a tough decision for the kid. We hold the aces though with the contract.

PS: Rhylee West suddenly gets more games in midfield.

[ledge]

We can just lengthen his contract, it’s not like we wouldn’t anyway, I don’t think that’s a risk at all, maybe add some more dollars to it and bombers are done.

[WBFC4FFC]

If this is all true, why wouldn't a 23 year old take $4.5 million. It is not lack of good management by our club as some are alluding to, it is a tough decision for the kid. We hold the aces though with the contract.

PS: Rhylee West suddenly gets more games in midfield.

Great point about West. We missed him this year.

[azabob]

We can just lengthen his contract, it’s not like we wouldn’t anyway, I don’t think that’s a risk at all, maybe add some more dollars to it and bombers are done.

When I said that ten hours ago you disagreed with me!

[G-Mo77]

I don't blame him if that is what they're offering him. Pack ya bag Dunks and good luck. All that said it's about time the AFL did something about clubs talking players out of contracts. If this shit continues then clubs should have the power to pull the trigger on trades without players consent.

[GVGjr]

We’ve earned the rep G.

Which examples are you referring to?

[G-Mo77]

Which examples are you referring to?

Brian Lake to kick it off.

[josie]

Understand if Dunks wants to leave for staggering $. Would not begrudge him.

What would club accept? We have upper hand. Could be a club defining moment - a bit like us gaining TBoyd in 2015. We need leg speed & class in the middle & forward half, a good mobile ruck to help Tim and a decent full back. Not so sure we need a small forward - hopefully Cavarra or Weightman fills that role.

[comrade]

Dunks can’t leave for more dough just because. If we refuse to move him, what’s he going to do? Sit out for 2 years?

[SonofScray]

I don't blame him if that is what they're offering him. Pack ya bag Dunks and good luck. All that said it's about time the AFL did something about clubs talking players out of contracts. If this shit continues then clubs should have the power to pull the trigger on trades without players consent.

That should be part of the rules. Especially with the option of free agency etc available to the players.

[bornadog]

Brian Lake to kick it off.

Macca wanted him out.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

If Essendon are offering the coin being mentioned, then their offer to us simply must be going to be amazing. I mean 900k a year... that's top echelon coin, so can hardly wait for Dodo's offer...

[The bulldog tragician]

Sorry, I would begrudge him.

He is 23 and by all accounts a great kid, but why should he be able to break a contract... one based on a calculated decision, made jointly by the clUb, and with which he obviously felt comfortable at the time, as to his value and whatever else was on the table.

Can any of the rest of us back out of a contract we no longer like so easily? Hasn’t the balance in favour of player power gone too far? If Dunkley slips on a banana peel during his current holiday time in Noosa tomorrow and does his knee, he’ll get fully paid for the next 12 months. He could do his knee again a week into 2022 and we will continue to pay him. Clubs aren’t able to say, we’d like to break your contract as we’re not getting value for money.

Many families have made sacrifices, in tough times, to keep up their memberships this year. Players who benefit from our unqualified and unconditional support are living in a bubble in more ways than one. I hope this story is complete crap, but if it’s not and we lose Dunkley in this fashion, I will be totally disillusioned.

[Grantysghost]

If Essendon are offering the coin being mentioned, then their offer to us simply must be going to be amazing. I mean 900k a year... that's top echelon coin, so can hardly wait for Dodo's offer...

Pick 6 and Tippa a good start.

[GVGjr]

Brian Lake to kick it off.

Lake wasn't 23 yo, he wasn't part of the leadership group but he wanted to go to a contending team to chase a flag or 2 not to a team who hasn't won a final for years and years.
Dunks is well paid with his best football still in front of him, he's won a flag with us already and has not one but two years to go on his contract.

All we have to do is address the nonsense of using him in the ruck and he will remain a Bulldog for many years to come

[SonofScray]

Lake wasn't 23 yo, he wasn't part of the leadership group but he wanted to go to a contending team to chase a flag or 2 not to a team who hasn't won a final for years and years.
Dunks is well paid with his best football still in front of him, he's won a flag with us already and has not one but two years to go on his contract.

All we have to do is address the nonsense of using him in the ruck and he will remain a Bulldog for many years to come

I can't see those ruck antics changing any time soon.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

I can't stomach bad mouthing of the club as if people's half baked opinions are more important than the club.
Even the notion of lets trade Dunkley is repulsive.
I thought we were supporters not just people who think they know better than the club. If you think you know better than the club why advertise it? Who are you supporting, the club or yourself?
To show you are smarter than other posters?
To me it just shows
people putting their ego before their loyalty.
Support the cub do not bag it.
This site has been precious to me because I love the club and its supporters. I get information from those close to the club.
The opinions that predominate, indeed any that is alternative for the club I could not care less for except two or three, certainly not the big egos of the site, which are just like that in same old committees with egos dominating.

[The Underdog]

Pick 6 and Tippa a good start.

Keep going....
We should ask for the picks they get for Saad and Daniher too. I mean, if they really want him that badly, they shouldn’t mind.

[Dry Rot]

That big experienced Tigers ruckman was handy in the finals.

[GVGjr]

I can't see those ruck antics changing any time soon.

While I agree with you, if there is any truth to the speculation it's because of being used in the ruck it will force a quick rethink

Our forward set-up doesn't quite allow for another options to help out in the ruck

[jeemak]

Keep going....
We should ask for the picks they get for Saad and Daniher too. I mean, if they really want him that badly, they shouldn’t mind.

I'd take Tippa this year, but wouldn't want picks because they'd get soaked up in the JUH drafting. We need players and Tippa's a good start, but given Dunkley's contracted then and they're apparently offering him elite money then more would need to be done.

[Grantysghost]

While I agree with you, if there is any truth to the speculation it's because of being used in the ruck it will force a quick rethink

Our forward set-up doesn't quite allow for another options to help out in the ruck

We have spoken during the season about his lack of midfield time. I think it's a factor. He's probably fifth in line now? As others have said though hopefully this changes with longer quarters and he can rotate more with Libba.
I'm with you, he really doesn't seem the type to burn his bridges and he's so highly regarded I can't see this relationship breaking down. It might at least give the coaches some food for thought regarding his usage going forward.

[The Underdog]

I'd take Tippa this year, but wouldn't want picks because they'd get soaked up in the JUH drafting. We need players and Tippa's a good start, but given Dunkley's contracted then and they're apparently offering him elite money then more would need to be done.

I think they’re currently banned from trading early picks next year. Could be wrong.
I get your point about this year but maybe if we can rake them over the coals enough we can make it worth it.
Alternatively Merrett, Tippa and a first. I know that’s way overs but hey, *!*!*!*! em.

I still prefer to play hardball and hold onto him, but this over the top ask is where we need to go if they try to buy him off with 2 years left on a contract.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I'd take Tippa this year, but wouldn't want picks because they'd get soaked up in the JUH drafting. We need players and Tippa's a good start, but given Dunkley's contracted then and they're apparently offering him elite money then more would need to be done.

Precisely. You can't offer top tier money to a player with 2 yrs on his contract and offer anything other than an offer to good to turn down to the club. Given JUH eats up points any deal will need to be one that unlocks other trade deals that addresses some strategic deficiencies we have.
That's the only way we even pick up Dodo's phone call.

[Bulldog4life]

900k a year and play as only as mid, who could blame him.

We don't know it is 900. Journo talk.

[GVGjr]

I think they’re currently banned from trading early picks next year. Could be wrong.
I get your point about this year but maybe if we can rake them over the coals enough we can make it worth it.
Alternatively Merrett, Tippa and a first. I know that’s way overs but hey, *!*!*!*! em.

I still prefer to play hardball and hold onto him, but this over the top ask is where we need to go if they try to buy him off with 2 years left on a contract.

I think this is close to being correct but I believe there are some consideration about trading a first round pick this year. They can trade their first round pick providing they acquire another in the first round.
They should be able to trade their 2021 pick though

This is what was reported last month

ESSENDON and Hawthorn will be unable to offload their first-round draft picks in trade deals this year unless they can obtain a second prized selection. And West Coast will also be blocked from trading its 2021 future first-round pick unless it can acquire an early choice this year.

[GVGjr]

I still prefer to play hardball and hold onto him, but this over the top ask is where we need to go if they try to buy him off with 2 years left on a contract.

Is it really hardball by just saying no to Essendon?

[Bulldog4life]

Let's not be too worried till we hear from the man himself, Dunks?

[GVGjr]

We don't know it is 900. Journo talk.

As much as I rate him that would be a ridiculous pay level for Dunkley.

Journo speculation for sure

[Grantysghost]

Hmmm

Speaking on Fox Footy, Herald Sun reporter Jon Ralph said Dunkley was likely to request a trade, but the move coming to fruition remains unlikely.

“They (Essendon) believe that Josh Dunkley is very keen to cross to the Dogs. They believe that they will certainly receive a trade request,” he said.

“The Bulldogs as we speak today are saying nothing is doing, there is no way we will trade a player who has two yeas on his contract.

“As I was told today, Essendon is saying he wants to come to us. He doesn’t want to be a ruckman as he’s had to be at times. He was certainly pushed out of the midfield late in the season including in that critical final, he was not thrilled with that.

“He has been up in Noosa considering his future - I think he’ll request the trade, the question is whether they get that done.”

[jazzadogs]

We can't get bent over here. We have all the cards.

I like Dunks as a player but he is not the type you pay $950k for. He is not elite. This will come back and bite Essendon.

We can use the picks to get the elite key defender/ruckman. We need to go hard at the other clubs like they do to us.

He was in the AA squad of 40 last year, when he played as an inside mid. When he got moved into an inside mid role, he had 11 of 16 games over 30 touches including a 39 disposal, 2 goal, 15 tackle, 9 clearance game in round 18.

I think he is definitely elite when playing inside mid, and if he got to play in a starting mid role at another club he would definitely be in AA and Brownlow contention. Unfortunately we have Bont, Macrae, Libba, Smith ahead of him - will he be happy to be a Cam Guthrie waiting on the wings/HFF for injuries, or will he chase more money and opportunity?

I really hope we hold on to Dunks.

[FrediKanoute]

I think if Dunks has half a brain in his head the last place he would go would be the Bombers. Why not Carlton? Brisbane? The Cats even......The Bombers are 5 to 8 years away from a top 4 position. He would be wasting his career. I get the money and if that is really important to him then maybe he's not what we need, but I think he is better off passing himself around a number of clubs.

[EasternWest]

I think if Dunks has half a brain in his head the last place he would go would be the Bombers. Why not Carlton? Brisbane? The Cats even......The Bombers are 5 to 8 years away from a top 4 position. He would be wasting his career. I get the money and if that is really important to him then maybe he's not what we need, but I think he is better off passing himself around a number of clubs.

Because they're not offering double his salary.

Honestly I'd play for Essendon if they came at me with that.

[GVGjr]

Hmmm

Speaking on Fox Footy, Herald Sun reporter Jon Ralph said Dunkley was likely to request a trade, but the move coming to fruition remains unlikely.

“They (Essendon) believe that Josh Dunkley is very keen to cross to the Dogs. They believe that they will certainly receive a trade request,” he said.

“The Bulldogs as we speak today are saying nothing is doing, there is no way we will trade a player who has two yeas on his contract.

“As I was told today, Essendon is saying he wants to come to us. He doesn’t want to be a ruckman as he’s had to be at times. He was certainly pushed out of the midfield late in the season including in that critical final, he was not thrilled with that.

“He has been up in Noosa considering his future - I think he’ll request the trade, the question is whether they get that done.”

I'd expect a better article than how this reads from Ralphy but lets assume an offer has been made. Dunkley's only bone of contention might be that he is missing time in the midfield and doing a bit of ruck work. That is an easy remedy for us if we are keen to keep him at the club. Two years to run on a contract is an easy option for us to insist on him meeting.

Too many things are in the positive column for us for me to get concerned

[GVGjr]

I think if Dunks has half a brain in his head the last place he would go would be the Bombers. Why not Carlton? Brisbane? The Cats even......The Bombers are 5 to 8 years away from a top 4 position. He would be wasting his career. I get the money and if that is really important to him then maybe he's not what we need, but I think he is better off passing himself around a number of clubs.

All that makes sense but if the financial offer is huge you would have to think it's a consideration

[chef]

I'd expect a better article than how this reads from Ralphy but lets assume an offer has been made. Dunkley's only bone of contention might be that he is missing time in the midfield and doing a bit of ruck work. That is an easy remedy for us if we are keen to keep him at the club. Two years to run on a contract is an easy option for us to insist on him meeting.

Too many things are in the positive column for us for me to get concerned

Not sure it is that easy to fix with how stubborn Bevo is.

[1eyedog]

This is a massive opportunity for the club to secure a player of need and go some way to balancing out our list. Dunks is a good inside player but he's slow and can't kick and we have a better version in Jack Macrae. If the Bombers want to pay that and prise out an AA, premiership, contracted player then we have just won Tattslotto in terms of the expected return.

We must gun hard for Papley. I don't think we'll stuff this one up.

[Bullies]

I'd take Tippa this year, but wouldn't want picks because they'd get soaked up in the JUH drafting. We need players and Tippa's a good start, but given Dunkley's contracted then and they're apparently offering him elite money then more would need to be done. Hopefully we can use the pick to target an elite key position player this year. We have West to stand in for Dunkley. This will fast track his development no end. Better skills as well.

[Bullies]

As much as I rate him that would be a ridiculous pay level for Dunkley.

Journo speculation for sure they have plenty of room in salary cap and will no doubt load it up front.

[Grantysghost]

Looking forward, how long do we expect Libba to have left? Two years maybe three? Just as Dunks will be coming into his prime Tom will be winding up. I'm concerned we will rue this decision in a couple of years if he leaves. West is a good prospect but we don't know if he will reach those levels.
Bloody Essendon p1ss off!

[Bullies]

Looking forward, how long do we expect Libba to have left? Two years maybe three? Just as Dunks will be coming into his prime Tom will be winding up. I'm concerned we will rue this decision in a couple of years if he leaves. West is a good prospect but we don't know if he will reach those levels.
Bloody Essendon p1ss off! Would be very surprised if West does not become elite.

[Grantysghost]

Would be very surprised if West does not become elite.

He's got the pedigree doesnt he :cool:
However a bird in the hand and all that....

[DOG GOD]

Would be very surprised if West does not become elite.
Let’s hope he gets the opportunity to become that elite mid by actually playing in the midfield and not a fwd pocket lol

[wimberga]

Came across the article below from Dunkley earlie this year which is interesting reading in the context of these developments. Things do change as MJP pointed out earlier in the thread - though reading this it feels like any change would be made for financial reasons.

Also - a deal I could live with would be Dunkley to Dons, Daniher to Lions and McCluggage to Dogs.

https://www.exclusiveinsight.com/josh-dunkley-the-day-luke-beveridge-stayed-a-bulldog/

The Day Luke Beveridge stayed a Bulldog
MARCH 26, 2020|IN SPORT|BY JOSH DUNKLEY
When the rumours surfaced last year that ‘Bevo’ was being poached by a rival AFL club, none of us wanted to even imagine what it would be like to not have him as our senior coach anymore.

Personally, I suppose at the back of my mind, I kind of expected that Bevo’s name would get mentioned at some stage as there were a number of senior coaching vacancies in the game during the middle of last season and any AFL club would be silly not to ask the question to him.

I’m obviously conflicted in my opinion, but in my eyes he is the best coach in the game.

Clearly, news and rumours travel fast in our game and he made it a point during one of our team meetings, to address what many of us were hearing from various people around the league.

‘Bevo’ couldn’t have been any more emphatic in his message: “Boys, don’t believe a word of it. I’m not going anywhere,” he asserted.

Excluding draft day, making my debut for the club and winning the 2016 premiership alongside my Bulldogs brothers, that team meeting marks one of my favourite days in footy.

Hearing ‘Bevo’ talk so passionately about his reasons for wanting to stay and reiterating the significance of what we are in the process of building at ‘The Kennel’, made me fall in love with the club all over again.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B93o3tggLE0/
Anyone who is involved at a footy club, be it grassroots, amateur or at AFL level, know there are people who, without necessarily their desire in doing so, become the fabric and backbone of your organisation.

It is no secret that ‘Bevo’ has become that person for us.

Throughout the various levels that I have played this great game, I’ve never met or come across anybody who remotely resembles Luke Beveridge.

His approach to coaching and leadership is unlike anything I have ever seen before; ‘Bevo’ is a relationships man and while it isn’t the norm to do so, he prioritises you as a “person” over you as the “footballer”, which in essence only makes you want to play even harder for him.

Despite being at the club for five years now, I still haven’t quite worked out just how he does it.

Marcus Bontempelli is probably my closest mate at the club and we speak on it all the time, the influence and belief he is able to instill in his team of 22 each week.


I reckon, what ‘Bevo’ worked out a long time ago was the influence he could actually have on the playing group, away from the training facility.

I’ve personally enjoyed all the coffees that he and I have shared together, even just in my short time in the game. We’ve had conversations on end, with many of them being totally non-footy related.

During the summer of 2018, I remember sitting down with him in his office and discussing the midfield role that he saw me playing in 2019.

Obviously, prior to that, my primary position was playing as a high half-forward, having the ability to move up the ground but having more of a focus on forward pressure and creating scoring opportunities.

I was fairly confident that I could make the transition and compliment the likes of Jack Macrae, Lachie Hunter and of course Marcus around the stoppages.

But having Bevo in my ear, he really helped me understand how I could focus on my own game and in doing so benefit the team as a whole.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B1AwqrPAznC/
He has a great way of conveying to us the importance of performing our role for the team, while also not holding back on the team through hesitation or fear of messing up team structures.

It isn’t so much confidence, but rather trust that he has for us, as it relates to how he wants us to play the game.

I certainly know that approach and style helped me become the footballer I am today.

It’s why I wouldn’t want to play for anyone else and am glad that for the foreseeable future I won’t be.

I honestly believe that in 50 years from now, the Western Bulldogs fraternity will look back and celebrate ‘Bevo’ as being one of the greatest figures in the club’s history.

For now, we value what he brings to our football club and certainly don’t take him for granted.

[GetDimmaBack]

Came across the article below from Dunkley earlie this year which is interesting reading in the context of these developments. Things do change as MJP pointed out earlier in the thread - though reading this it feels like any change would be made for financial reasons.

Also - a deal I could live with would be Dunkley to Dons, Daniher to Lions and McCluggage to Dogs.

https://www.exclusiveinsight.com/josh-dunkley-the-day-luke-beveridge-stayed-a-bulldog/

The Day Luke Beveridge stayed a Bulldog
MARCH 26, 2020|IN SPORT|BY JOSH DUNKLEY
When the rumours surfaced last year that ‘Bevo’ was being poached by a rival AFL club, none of us wanted to even imagine what it would be like to not have him as our senior coach anymore.

Personally, I suppose at the back of my mind, I kind of expected that Bevo’s name would get mentioned at some stage as there were a number of senior coaching vacancies in the game during the middle of last season and any AFL club would be silly not to ask the question to him.

I’m obviously conflicted in my opinion, but in my eyes he is the best coach in the game.

Clearly, news and rumours travel fast in our game and he made it a point during one of our team meetings, to address what many of us were hearing from various people around the league.

‘Bevo’ couldn’t have been any more emphatic in his message: “Boys, don’t believe a word of it. I’m not going anywhere,” he asserted.

Excluding draft day, making my debut for the club and winning the 2016 premiership alongside my Bulldogs brothers, that team meeting marks one of my favourite days in footy.

Hearing ‘Bevo’ talk so passionately about his reasons for wanting to stay and reiterating the significance of what we are in the process of building at ‘The Kennel’, made me fall in love with the club all over again.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B93o3tggLE0/
Anyone who is involved at a footy club, be it grassroots, amateur or at AFL level, know there are people who, without necessarily their desire in doing so, become the fabric and backbone of your organisation.

It is no secret that ‘Bevo’ has become that person for us.

Throughout the various levels that I have played this great game, I’ve never met or come across anybody who remotely resembles Luke Beveridge.

His approach to coaching and leadership is unlike anything I have ever seen before; ‘Bevo’ is a relationships man and while it isn’t the norm to do so, he prioritises you as a “person” over you as the “footballer”, which in essence only makes you want to play even harder for him.

Despite being at the club for five years now, I still haven’t quite worked out just how he does it.

Marcus Bontempelli is probably my closest mate at the club and we speak on it all the time, the influence and belief he is able to instill in his team of 22 each week.


I reckon, what ‘Bevo’ worked out a long time ago was the influence he could actually have on the playing group, away from the training facility.

I’ve personally enjoyed all the coffees that he and I have shared together, even just in my short time in the game. We’ve had conversations on end, with many of them being totally non-footy related.

During the summer of 2018, I remember sitting down with him in his office and discussing the midfield role that he saw me playing in 2019.

Obviously, prior to that, my primary position was playing as a high half-forward, having the ability to move up the ground but having more of a focus on forward pressure and creating scoring opportunities.

I was fairly confident that I could make the transition and compliment the likes of Jack Macrae, Lachie Hunter and of course Marcus around the stoppages.

But having Bevo in my ear, he really helped me understand how I could focus on my own game and in doing so benefit the team as a whole.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B1AwqrPAznC/
He has a great way of conveying to us the importance of performing our role for the team, while also not holding back on the team through hesitation or fear of messing up team structures.

It isn’t so much confidence, but rather trust that he has for us, as it relates to how he wants us to play the game.

I certainly know that approach and style helped me become the footballer I am today.

It’s why I wouldn’t want to play for anyone else and am glad that for the foreseeable future I won’t be.

I honestly believe that in 50 years from now, the Western Bulldogs fraternity will look back and celebrate ‘Bevo’ as being one of the greatest figures in the club’s history.

For now, we value what he brings to our football club and certainly don’t take him for granted.

Very telling article, this one.

I've been reflecting on all the media drama happening at present, and here's my take:


A few things don't add up at this stage. Certainly nothing that fits with the above quoted article.

Everyone at the club knows Dunks is Bevo's "pet" - as per the player interview clip on the Dogs website.
He's tbe Bont's best mate, he's in the leadership group, is popular with everyone. One of the best clubmen, a bloke with genuine integrity. Will probably be our vice captain next year. Was apprently keen on moving Stringer out...

He's not too badly paid, either. He'll also be on more in the future.

Now, according to "those in the know", he's spat it, wants a divorce from Bevo and the playing group, is okay with reuniting with Stringer and wants the money.

The Bombers cheer squad (aka the media) have painted a picture of Dunks that pretty much goes against everything we know about him. Especially when you read the article above.

I'm not saying it's not a real possibility, it's just that at this stage, something's not quite right about all of this.



I hate Illinois Nazis.

[bornadog]

Thinking about this situation overnight, the AFL needs to do something about player contracts. I just can't agree that players try to break contracts because they have a better offer, or are allowed to break contracts.

Part of me says, the club should just say to Dunks, sorry you have two years left, tough titties, but on the other hand we can take advantage of the situation. However, if we do allow Dunks to leave, the message to the rest of the playing group is they can also take advantage. I have no doubt in my mind that clubs will be coming for Bailey Smith, ala Hawks in the next few years.

Is that what we want in the AFL, players breaking contracts, Free Agents going to top 4 clubs. The whole idea of the AFL was always to even out the competition and that is why we have the draft and salary cap. It seems to me the evenness is slowly eroding away and it is becoming a bit of a free for all.

[GVGjr]

BAD makes an excellent point and it's one of the reasons I'm so sure Dunks will be with us next year. If we trade Dunkley then many emerging players like Bailey Smith and Naughton etc can play out the same scenario with us because big money offers will come.

We should all just sit back, take a deep breath and back the club and player to address this at the appropriate time

[josie]

Excellent point BAD. Like dominoes.... Could be a fascinating trade period for us. Or a very quiet one. I trust Sam Power and Club to SWOT this & do what in balance is best for our club.

[GVGjr]

Not sure it is that easy to fix with how stubborn Bevo is.

Earlier in the year there was speculation we were going to lose Hunter. Bevo responded that he had become a confidant of Hunter (which I question the logic of a coach getting that involved) so given the way he gets involved with players I doubt he is going to lose a contracted player that he really likes and has championed into a leadership role at the club just over some midfield minutes and ruck work.

He might be stubborn and a bit quirky with some of his views on how the game can be played but he isn't a fool in fact far from it.

A more likely scenario might look like:

Chris Grant "Bevo we will lose Dunkley if you don't stop playing him as a ruckman"
Bevo "Chris lets get Sammy to tell us how is he going at finding me another option and as a back-up it's going to be Josh Bruce...he owes us something"

[G-Mo77]

Thinking about this situation overnight, the AFL needs to do something about player contracts. I just can't agree that players try to break contracts because they have a better offer, or are allowed to break contracts.

Part of me says, the club should just say to Dunks, sorry you have two years left, tough titties, but on the other hand we can take advantage of the situation. However, if we do allow Dunks to leave, the message to the rest of the playing group is they can also take advantage. I have no doubt in my mind that clubs will be coming for Bailey Smith, ala Hawks in the next few years.

Is that what we want in the AFL, players breaking contracts, Free Agents going to top 4 clubs. The whole idea of the AFL was always to even out the competition and that is why we have the draft and salary cap. It seems to me the evenness is slowly eroding away and it is becoming a bit of a free for all.

Yeah something must be done. Not just about players breaking contracts but clubs wooing contracted players from other clubs. Players have way to much stroke with movement, if they want to just tear up contracts and move when they please then clubs should be able to just say your traded to Gold Coast, thanks for your services. Fine print when you enter the draft expect to play anywhere not just near home and be prepared to move anywhere each season. They want less restrictions and be able to *!*!*!*! clubs over, fine, be prepared to play somewhere which is not your #1 choice.

[jeemak]

Because they're not offering double his salary.

Honestly I'd play for Essendon if they came at me with that.

Second house here we come!

[jeemak]

Not sure it is that easy to fix with how stubborn Bevo is.

Then he plays in the ruck for us from time to time and leaves in two years.

[Twodogs]

As I was told today, Essendon is saying he wants to come to us. He doesn’t want to be a ruckman as he’s had to be at times.


That's still just saying what Essendon says. It's not what Dunkley or us told Jon Ralph which is far more important. It's a poorly written article full of maybes and Essendon wishes and short on actual facts. At one stage it says that Josh "is keen to move to the Dogs" If this was a post on BF it would have the *!*!*!*! trolled out of it. The only definitive quote is us saying "The Bulldogs as we speak today are saying nothing is doing, there is no way we will trade a player who has two yeas on his contract."

Essendon can say that it was really them that won the flag last night if they want and just because Jon Ralph repeats it or says "Essendon told me they would win the 2021 AFL Premiership" doesn't make it true.

[Twodogs]

Second house here we come!

With no more premiership medals to put in it and no more premiership reunions to come home to it from.

[jeemak]

With no more premiership medals to put in it and no more premiership reunions to come home to it from.

Wouldn't you keep your premiership medals and reside and return from premiership reunions at your first house?

I don't have a second house so I'm only guessing.

[Bulldog4life]

Thinking about this situation overnight, the AFL needs to do something about player contracts. I just can't agree that players try to break contracts because they have a better offer, or are allowed to break contracts.

Part of me says, the club should just say to Dunks, sorry you have two years left, tough titties, but on the other hand we can take advantage of the situation. However, if we do allow Dunks to leave, the message to the rest of the playing group is they can also take advantage. I have no doubt in my mind that clubs will be coming for Bailey Smith, ala Hawks in the next few years.

Is that what we want in the AFL, players breaking contracts, Free Agents going to top 4 clubs. The whole idea of the AFL was always to even out the competition and that is why we have the draft and salary cap. It seems to me the evenness is slowly eroding away and it is becoming a bit of a free for all.

Players have been wanting to leave clubs for yonks and have ended up staying at their original club. Papley last year is one example. Now he is happy in Sydney. Another was Ryan O'Keefe who wanted to leave Sydney and go to the Hawks. He ended up staying and played in a premiership. I remember Wayne Campbell wanted to leave Richmond, couldn't get a clearance and ended up staying. There are many more that others might remember. So even if Dunks was interested I am confident the club will stick to "no deal" and he will stay a dog.

[soupman]

Like many I'm still yet to see anything definitive about him wanting to leave, the vast majority of it including from reporters falls under the "wild speculation" category. As pointed out by Twodogs the main indicator that he is leaving comes from a post that reads like it is ripped straight from Bigfooty.

Dunkley does not appear to be the kind of guy that would demand a trade; he doesn't seem like a mercenary, he is the coaches pet (and in my experience the coaches pet never leaves), has a really good friendship group at the club including Bont, is well respected and liked by the playing group and despite the occasional stint in the ruck always appears to be enjoying playing for the side.

I will admit it is plausible though, it's a huge offer and one I don't think we could (or should) get close to matching. I think at most he could get approx $700k with us (which is still huge obviously) which means he stands to collect and extra $1m over 5 years by moving (even more when you consider his current contract is likely to be $500k at best, so a $2.5M increase over 5 years). Combine that with Essendon likely picking up his brother Kyle, who he is pretty close with (as well as his sister Lara) he kind of has two boxes ticked.

I'd imagine if he does go it would be tentatively and almost because he feels obliged to, I mean it's almost irresponsible to not take an offer like that, hence the whole "we will make him an offer too good to refuse" strategy from Essendon. I'd certainly be disappointed by him choosing that option but I also don't think I would begrudge him making that choice, although it being Essendon is so shit from both a "I really hate Essendon" and a "Dodoro is the worst to deal with" standpoint.

[Go_Dogs]

Plenty of hysteria surrounding this one.

I just can’t see how a deal gets done at this stage. Essendon don’t have the currency at the trade table to land a big fish from us. Draft picks are worth less to us this year and unsure if trading for future picks helps our shirt term aspirations to be a top 4 side. We’d have to line up a few trades ourselves (contingent on those Essendon picks) before we’d consider pulling the trigger.

All of that aside, hard to see Josh leave. Popular team mate, best footy still in front of him and while he hasn’t got himself as much midfield rotation as he would’ve liked in 2020, no reason that doesn’t change in 2021. Football is a funny game, injuries happen, and the sun can set on careers pretty quicklY particularly for players with a history of long term injuries.

Let’s wait and see what happens here.

[ledge]

Like many I'm still yet to see anything definitive about him wanting to leave, the vast majority of it including from reporters falls under the "wild speculation" category. As pointed out by Twodogs the main indicator that he is leaving comes from a post that reads like it is ripped straight from Bigfooty.

Dunkley does not appear to be the kind of guy that would demand a trade; he doesn't seem like a mercenary, he is the coaches pet (and in my experience the coaches pet never leaves), has a really good friendship group at the club including Bont, is well respected and liked by the playing group and despite the occasional stint in the ruck always appears to be enjoying playing for the side.

I will admit it is plausible though, it's a huge offer and one I don't think we could (or should) get close to matching. I think at most he could get approx $700k with us (which is still huge obviously) which means he stands to collect and extra $1m over 5 years by moving (even more when you consider his current contract is likely to be $500k at best, so a $2.5M increase over 5 years). Combine that with Essendon likely picking up his brother Kyle, who he is pretty close with (as well as his sister Lara) he kind of has two boxes ticked.

I'd imagine if he does go it would be tentatively and almost because he feels obliged to, I mean it's almost irresponsible to not take an offer like that, hence the whole "we will make him an offer too good to refuse" strategy from Essendon. I'd certainly be disappointed by him choosing that option but I also don't think I would begrudge him making that choice, although it being Essendon is so shit from both a "I really hate Essendon" and a "Dodoro is the worst to deal with" standpoint.


Don’t forget you get taxed on your income, if he moved into another tax bracket he could be getting just over what he is getting anyway.
Just thought I would throw that in ;-)

[soupman]

Don’t forget you get taxed on your income, if he moved into another tax bracket he could be getting just over what he is getting anyway.
Just thought I would throw that in ;-)

The top tax bracket is 45%. Also consider he'd absolutely have access to someone who could help him bring down his taxable income with some deductions. Even the worst case scenario of $1M extra income over 5 years ends up being at minimum $550K over the same time period. Still an astounding amount of money.

[Grantysghost]

Just say he wants to leave because of the amazing offer basically setting him up for life. Is there a scenario where exactly because he is so well respected we actually give him his wish and try and broker a deal in good faith? I don't believe for a second that we should do this but I considered it and wondered what the forum might think.

[hujsh]

If the Kyle stuff is really that important... couldn't we pick him up just as easily? God knows there are plenty of candidates for delisting and it's not like Kyle looked completely hopeless when he played. Would he really be worse that Porter?

[GVGjr]

Just say he wants to leave because of the amazing offer basically setting him up for life. Is there a scenario where exactly because he is so well respected we actually give him his wish and try and broker a deal in good faith? I don't believe for a second that we should do this but I considered it and wondered what the forum might think.

And therefore opening the door for a same scenarios with Smith and Naughton? Given his age the club will take a wider view than just what might suit Dunkley good bloke and all.

To me that is more of a scenario for a 28 or 29yo where the next deal might be their last

[soupman]

Plenty of hysteria surrounding this one.

I just can’t see how a deal gets done at this stage. Essendon don’t have the currency at the trade table to land a big fish from us. Draft picks are worth less to us this year and unsure if trading for future picks helps our shirt term aspirations to be a top 4 side. We’d have to line up a few trades ourselves (contingent on those Essendon picks) before we’d consider pulling the trigger.

All of that aside, hard to see Josh leave. Popular team mate, best footy still in front of him and while he hasn’t got himself as much midfield rotation as he would’ve liked in 2020, no reason that doesn’t change in 2021. Football is a funny game, injuries happen, and the sun can set on careers pretty quicklY particularly for players with a history of long term injuries.

Let’s wait and see what happens here.

On the flipside they will have heaps of picks with Daniher and Saad leaving. That's probably three first round picks coming in at once.

If we were to trade I'd be trying very hard to get their first rounder next year. They won't improve, are already shit, are not really making big moves to improve themselves culturally, it could well be a top 5 (if not top 2 or 3 ) pick. That's what I'd be pushing for. Additionally they likely get picks 17 and 18 from Brisbane this year for Daniher.

Give them Dunkley and our pick 12 this year for their picks 17 and 18 this year and their first rounder next year. Obviously I'd hang onto the probably very good pick next year for ourselves but picks 17 and 18 would be good currency to target a number of players with or we could split them further for more points ie. Port Adelaide have 26 and 42 which is worth over 100 points more than pick 18 (not the best example but the kind of thinking we could do).

[jeemak]

If the Kyle stuff is really that important... couldn't we pick him up just as easily? God knows there are plenty of candidates for delisting and it's not like Kyle looked completely hopeless when he played. Would he really be worse that Porter?

I don't like the idea of giving away list spots unless we think people deserve them. I get it's expedient to possibly do that but you pay a price, just like the Bummers will if they bring in Kyle Dunkley and players who are already on their list see good mates get delisted to ensure an extremely highly paid recruit can have a brother gifted a list spot at the club.

If they want to play that game, good on 'em. If they think it's going to be good for their culture then again, good on 'em.

[GVGjr]

I don't like the idea of giving away list spots unless we think people deserve them. I get it's expedient to possibly do that but you pay a price, just like the Bummers will if they bring in Kyle Dunkley and players who are already on their list see good mates get delisted to ensure an extremely highly paid recruit can have a brother gifted a list spot at the club.

If they want to play that game, good on 'em. If they think it's going to be good for their culture then again, good on 'em.

I agree, but we would have drafted him if Melbourne hadn't have jumped in early so we do rate him plus he has links with Footscray
I don't think we should recruit Kyle just for the sake of keeping Josh happy unless we still rate Dunkley jnr

[soupman]

I don't like the idea of giving away list spots unless we think people deserve them. I get it's expedient to possibly do that but you pay a price, just like the Bummers will if they bring in Kyle Dunkley and players who are already on their list see good mates get delisted to ensure an extremely highly paid recruit can have a brother gifted a list spot at the club.

If they want to play that game, good on 'em. If they think it's going to be good for their culture then again, good on 'em.

Kyle is a very interesting bargaining chip. I am big on list spots being super valuable so I would not be supportive of picking him up as solely a stablemate. Essendon realistically should take a position now where they say "regardless of your choice Josh we will pick Kyle up for 2021 because we rate him, if you want to play with him come on over". The alternative is more of a hostage situation where they are telling Josh to come over or else Kyle gets punished.

[soupman]

I agree, but we would have drafted him if Melbourne hadn't have jumped in early so we do rate him plus he has links with Footscray
I don't think we should recruit Kyle just for the sake of keeping Josh happy unless we still rate Dunkley jnr

Again if we legitimately think he is worth listing then by all means we should, but the decision should be independent of the impact he has on Josh. Completely agree that he couldn't be a more useless squad member than Porter based on what we've seen, but list spots are valuable so he needs to earn it on merit.

[jeemak]

I agree, but we would have drafted him if Melbourne hadn't have jumped in early so we do rate him plus he has links with Footscray
I don't think we should recruit Kyle just for the sake of keeping Josh happy unless we still rate Dunkley jnr

Yes, prior to list sizes being restricted and before anyone had had a look at him in an AFL environment we would have but I think things have changed a bit since then.

[Twodogs]

Wouldn't you keep your premiership medals and reside and return from premiership reunions at your first house?

I don't have a second house so I'm only guessing.

I've owned two houses-got a big super payout from the Howard government and bought cheap in the western suburbs just before property values started to soar. It's not as good as you think it is. In fact it's a pain in the arse. Sitting tennants (any sort of tennant) are a special kind of hell. Repairs and maintenance cost a lot, insurance is insanely expensive, real estate agents tend to forget you own the house and think the property belongs to them and make decisions on that basis. And have you seen how much council rates are these days? You are almost better off renting these days.


If the Kyle stuff is really that important... couldn't we pick him up just as easily? God knows there are plenty of candidates for delisting and it's not like Kyle looked completely hopeless when he played. Would he really be worse that Porter?

If Josh was that interested in playing with Kyle then he had a trade period in which to make that desire known. Instead he signed a contract extension with us. I'm calling the desire to play with Kyle a flimsy story that a journalist made up which falls apart under the smallest amount of scrutiny. Like the rest of this story.

[Bulldog4life]

Like many I'm still yet to see anything definitive about him wanting to leave, the vast majority of it including from reporters falls under the "wild speculation" category. As pointed out by Twodogs the main indicator that he is leaving comes from a post that reads like it is ripped straight from Bigfooty.

Dunkley does not appear to be the kind of guy that would demand a trade; he doesn't seem like a mercenary, he is the coaches pet (and in my experience the coaches pet never leaves), has a really good friendship group at the club including Bont, is well respected and liked by the playing group and despite the occasional stint in the ruck always appears to be enjoying playing for the side.

I will admit it is plausible though, it's a huge offer and one I don't think we could (or should) get close to matching. I think at most he could get approx $700k with us (which is still huge obviously) which means he stands to collect and extra $1m over 5 years by moving (even more when you consider his current contract is likely to be $500k at best, so a $2.5M increase over 5 years). Combine that with Essendon likely picking up his brother Kyle, who he is pretty close with (as well as his sister Lara) he kind of has two boxes ticked.

I'd imagine if he does go it would be tentatively and almost because he feels obliged to, I mean it's almost irresponsible to not take an offer like that, hence the whole "we will make him an offer too good to refuse" strategy from Essendon. I'd certainly be disappointed by him choosing that option but I also don't think I would begrudge him making that choice, although it being Essendon is so shit from both a "I really hate Essendon" and a "Dodoro is the worst to deal with" standpoint.

But Soupy we don't know if the figure of 900 is correct. It came from a Tom Browne tweet.

[Hotdog60]

On player contracts may be there should be some penalties involved to the player braking the contract out side clubs dealing picks or players.
Something along the lines you play for the other club on rookies wage until your contract with your original club expires and the rest of your new wage goes back to your old club.
Then the big money offers play less apart and its more on you wanting to move.
Give some power back to the clubs. Salary would also need to be out in the open so the contracted club gets it rightful amount.

I am of the view that players should be on a wage and everyone gets the same just like anyone else in a job. That wage can be supplemented with types of bonusses but that another story.

[soupman]

But Soupy we don't know if the figure of 900 is correct. It came from a Tom Browne tweet.

Fair.

On the flipside I doubt Dunkley leaves unless it is an outrageous offer like that, so if it less than the amount Browne is reporting then I think the likelihood of Dunkley actually wanting out diminishes drastically.

[The bulldog tragician]

We don’t “have to” do anything.

There is no reason on earth at present to up our $$ for him, recruit his brother, or promise him more time in the midfield.

In 2 years time, he will either have earned the alleged offers/Dustin Martin style numbers, OR injury/form/ development of other talent will have adjusted assessments of his worth to us in one direction or another. Meanwhile his brother will either have made it or be trundling round in a lesser league, and Bevo will or will not have seen the light about the ruck situation.

We hold the aces, because...CONTRACT!!

[Grantysghost]

And therefore opening the door for a same scenarios with Smith and Naughton? Given his age the club will take a wider view than just what might suit Dunkley good bloke and all.

To me that is more of a scenario for a 28 or 29yo where the next deal might be their last

True, agree mainly. Godfather deals are usually for the younger guys though not those at the end.
Will be interesting to see how this plays out. I'm constantly vacillating between sod off Essendon to hmm what can we get for him to fill a need.
I'm not as dismissive of the reporting as others. There's something bubbling away.

[Sedat]

Fair.

On the flipside I doubt Dunkley leaves unless it is an outrageous offer like that, so if it less than the amount Browne is reporting then I think the likelihood of Dunkley actually wanting out diminishes drastically.
Even if he nominates to leave and ends up staying, it is a massive indictment on our club that one of our best under 23 players, a model citizen and future leader, has allegedly decided he has no faith in the future direction of our club.

[bornadog]

A couple of comments.

The only reason Dunks would leave is for the money, not because he has cracked the shits over playing a couple of games relief ruck. He loves the club and his mates at the club and loves the coach.

Also, lets say we decide to trade with Essendon. Knowing Essendon the deal will be done on the eleventh hour and we won't have time to use the picks to on trade with another club for a Backman/Ruck, small forward. I can see that happening when Essendon is involved.

Overall, I hope Dunks comes out soon and says he is going nowhere, or the club says we are holding you to your contract - too bad sonny Jim. :)

[chef]

We don’t “have to” do anything.

There is no reason on earth at present to up our $$ for him, recruit his brother, or promise him more time in the midfield.

In 2 years time, he will either have earned the alleged offers/Dustin Martin style numbers, OR injury/form/ development of other talent will have adjusted assessments of his worth to us in one direction or another. Meanwhile his brother will either have made it or be trundling round in a lesser league, and Bevo will or will not have seen the light about the ruck situation.

We hold the aces, because...CONTRACT!!

Yeah but once someone doesnt want to be here, you dont keep them. Their hearts not in it and the fans will turn.

If he wants out see you later mate we dont want you either.

[chef]

The only reason Dunks would leave is for the money, not because he has cracked the shits over playing a couple of games relief ruck. He loves the club and his mates at the club and loves the coach.

How would you know that?

[soupman]

Yeah but once someone doesnt want to be here, you dont keep them. Their hearts not in it and the fans will turn.

If he wants out see you later mate we dont want you either.

Tom Papley? Ryan O'Keefe? I know they are very much in the minority but they do show that it can be done.

[bornadog]

Yeah but once someone doesnt want to be here, you dont keep them. Their hearts not in it and the fans will turn.

If he wants out see you later mate we dont want you either.

This is a different situation. It isn't that he doesn't want to be with us, or he is unhappy with the club, coach, players, it is purely due to an opportunity that has come up to make big money.

[chef]

Tom Papley? Ryan O'Keefe? I know they are very much in the minority but they do show that it can be done.

Yeah but they were wanting to come home to Victoria from another state. Dunkley wants to go to Essendon. Huge difference.

[chef]

This is a different situation. It isn't that he doesn't want to be with us, or he is unhappy with the club, coach, players, it is purely due to an opportunity that has come up to make big money.

As I've already asked, how would you know?

He may just want to play in his natural position and get payed well for it.

[azabob]

This is a different situation. It isn't that he doesn't want to be with us, or he is unhappy with the club, coach, players, it is purely due to an opportunity that has come up to make big money.

We don't know anything for certain.

Essendon have seen an opportunity that Dunkely for whatever reason is not in our first choice midfield line up and have approached with a great opportunity on field and a whole lot of reasons off field to take it seriously.

[Sedat]

A couple of comments.

The only reason Dunks would leave is for the money, not because he has cracked the shits over playing a couple of games relief ruck. He loves the club and his mates at the club and loves the coach.

Also, lets say we decide to trade with Essendon. Knowing Essendon the deal will be done on the eleventh hour and we won't have time to use the picks to on trade with another club for a Backman/Ruck, small forward. I can see that happening when Essendon is involved.

Overall, I hope Dunks comes out soon and says he is going nowhere, or the club says we are holding you to your contract - too bad sonny Jim. :)

Unless he publicly reaffirms his desire to stay at the club, this is just a horrible look for us. Other clubs will look at us as a team who cannot keep their fabric players all together. As GVGjr said, what about Naughts and Bailey Smith when they are next up for contract?

For mine it is not even important if the deal is done or not. What really matters is that it's an alleged decision by a young player, not even yet entering their prime and who is an impeccable citizen, that they don't believe in the future of the club.

Dynasty clubs hold their players together and take a collective pay cut to do so. Money is irrelevant if a player is truly happy, settled and believes in the future success of the club.

[GVGjr]

Yeah but they were wanting to come home to Victoria from another state. Dunkley wants to go to Essendon. Huge difference.

You are taking two journos at their word and it's not like he has an axe to grind with the club. You don't know for sure he doesn't want to be at the club either.

Do you really have a good reason for a half empty position with Dunkley?

[chef]

You are taking two journos at their word and it's not like he has an axe to grind with the club. You don't know for sure he doesn't want to be at the club either.

Do you really have a good reason for a half empty position with Dunkley?

I guess all we've got to go on is a handful of journos saying he wants out, we can pretend he wants to stay too but yeah we wont know until next week.

It cant always be kumbaya on here.

[chef]

This is the reverse version of BTs Tom Boyd thread, can we bash the person who started it?

[The bulldog tragician]

Yeah but once someone doesnt want to be here, you dont keep them. Their hearts not in it and the fans will turn.

If he wants out see you later mate we dont want you either.

So if Bont or Naughton say they’d rather be elsewhere we’d just wave them on their way?

I also find it mind boggling that there are all these rules around draft tampering and equalisation yet it is ok to offer inducements to break a legally binding contract?

[chef]

So if Bont or Naughton say they’d rather be elsewhere we’d just wave them on their way?

Sadly yes. If someone doesnt want to be here you trade them out.

Lets not mention Bont is this cursed thread with him coming out of contract at the end of next season.

[bornadog]

As I've already asked, how would you know?

He may just want to play in his natural position and get payed well for it.

Yeah, I don't know what has happened in the past 6 months, but I do know he wrote the article posted in this thread not long ago, (not sure if you read it) and all the players call him the coaches pet. If he really wanted to go he would have come out and said so. What I can tell is he is mulling over the dollars.


We don't know anything for certain.

Essendon have seen an opportunity that Dunkely for whatever reason is not in our first choice midfield line up and have approached with a great opportunity on field and a whole lot of reasons off field to take it seriously.

I don't blame Essendon, I would do the same if I was them. they need an inside mid, we have plenty, so go for it. I do blame the AFL for not stopping this bullshit of breaking contracts.

As I said earlier what is to stop another team throwing big dollars at our other young players, or we doing the same. It is getting ridiculous.

[Grantysghost]

Even if he nominates to leave and ends up staying, it is a massive indictment on our club that one of our best under 23 players, a model citizen and future leader, has allegedly decided he has no faith in the future direction of our club.

It's a good point. You'd wonder if the same scenario involved Shai Bolton would his head be turned as reportedly (I know source is questionable) Josh's has.

[bornadog]

It's a good point. You'd wonder if the same scenario involved Shai Bolton would his head be turned as reportedly (I know source is questionable) Josh's has.

My take is still the enormous salary thrown at him - very hard to resist. It is not always the clubs fault as many on here always purport.

[jeemak]

Even if he nominates to leave and ends up staying, it is a massive indictment on our club that one of our best under 23 players, a model citizen and future leader, has allegedly decided he has no faith in the future direction of our club.

So.….it's a massive indictment on the club that another club is willing to double his wage, and employ his brother when nobody else would?

Not sure I see the logic Sedat.

[jeemak]

This is the reverse version of BTs Tom Boyd thread, can we bash the person who started it?

Yep, you get two free ones and that's it. Make them count.

:rolleyes:

Is that how we talk tough on the internets?

[bornadog]

Yep, you get two free ones and that's it. Make them count.

Jeemak, surely Dodoro hasn't been reading WOOF - :D :D

[Sedat]

So.….it's a massive indictment on the club that another club is willing to double his wage, and employ his brother when nobody else would?

Not sure I see the logic Sedat.
You don't think the core playing groups of Brisbane 2001-2003, Geelong 2007-2011, Hawthorn 2013-2015 and Richmond 2017-2020 weren't offered ludicrous contracts from other clubs and decided to take a collective hair cut to stay together? Ablett and Buddy are the only 2 players who bucked this trend, and they weren't 22yo players still with a point to prove who have not yet entered their prime.

[Doc26]

It's a good point. You'd wonder if the same scenario involved Shai Bolton would his head be turned as reportedly (I know source is questionable) Josh's has.

Let’s just see how this plays out with Dunks.


On September 16th [2013], the Tigers had issued a statement acknowledging the 22-year-old Dustin Martin was to "pursue other opportunities."

The out-of-contract midfielder's management had been demanding a fresh deal of more than three years at $600,000 per season.

[chef]

Yep, you get two free ones and that's it. Make them count.

:rolleyes:

Is that how we talk tough on the internets?

Yeah m8

[jeemak]

Unless he publicly reaffirms his desire to stay at the club, this is just a horrible look for us. Other clubs will look at us as a team who cannot keep their fabric players all together. As GVGjr said, what about Naughts and Bailey Smith when they are next up for contract?

For mine it is not even important if the deal is done or not. What really matters is that it's an alleged decision by a young player, not even yet entering their prime and who is an impeccable citizen, that they don't believe in the future of the club.

Dynasty clubs hold their players together and take a collective pay cut to do so. Money is irrelevant if a player is truly happy, settled and believes in the future success of the club.

Sorry, I didn't see this one before I posted my reply to your earlier post.

I don't see us as a dynasty club, and possibly players see us (like me) as a rebuilding club. If we were right smack bang in the conversation for winning multiple flags perhaps it would be different with Dunkley and a reported doubling of wages wouldn't be so appealing to him. But we're not.

[bornadog]

delete

[Bulldog4life]

Sadly yes. If someone doesnt want to be here you trade them out.

Lets not mention Bont is this cursed thread with him coming out of contract at the end of next season.

If that is the case I suggest we abolish all contracts as they are not worth a piece of s##t.

[Bulldog4life]

So if Bont or Naughton say they’d rather be elsewhere we’d just wave them on their way?

I also find it mind boggling that there are all these rules around draft tampering and equalisation yet it is ok to offer inducements to break a legally binding contract?

Yep what happened to the good old days when you couldn't contact an opposition player who is in contract.

[chef]

If that is the case I suggest we abolish all contracts as they are not worth a piece of s##t.

Welcome to professional sport.

[chef]

Yep what happened to the good old days when you couldn't contact an opposition player who is in contract.

You dont contact the player, you contact the manager.

[Sedat]

I don't see us as a dynasty club, and possibly players see us (like me) as a rebuilding club. If we were right smack bang in the conversation for winning multiple flags perhaps it would be different with Dunkley and a reported doubling of wages wouldn't be so appealing to him. But we're not.
Richmond built their dynasty after our premiership in 2016, and they did it with a game plan that was refined and improved on what we did in 2015-16. There is no reason whatsoever why we couldn't have built on 2016 to form our own dynasty. Clearly we didn't.

As a supporter, I'm as guilty as anyone for treating 2017 like a big holiday (probably moreso as I went on 3 overseas holidays that year). The truly great clubs get a taste and they get hungry for more. It's fair to say we didn't handle it from the top down, and now we have fabric players under 23 reportedly wanting to leave the club for another club that is frankly rubbish and has been for most of this century. It is just not a good look for us.

Geelong will improve again next year, ditto Richmond. Port definitely will, as will Brisbane. St Kilda are very proactive in improving their list after having a more successful season than us. How on earth are we going to jump ahead of all these clubs, let alone get ahead of teams around us (West Coast, Collingwood) and aggressive teams below us?

We dropped the ball, and last night was a very sobering reminder of just how much we failed to grasp our gilt-edged opportunity to develop a dynasty at the end of 2016.

[hujsh]

I guess all we've got to go on is a handful of journos saying he wants out, we can pretend he wants to stay too but yeah we wont know until next week.

It cant always be kumbaya on here.

Saying they've heard that Essendon think he wants out. The language matters. We know that there is an offer in front of him and there's no indication he's said no or yes to that. Everything else is rumour at this stage.

This is an easy play for Essendon. Target a player who'd suit your needs, offer him a massive contract tell them media, drip feed them that "yeah we think he's really interested... expect a trade request." If it works, great you have a new player and changed the narrative. If not you still changed the narrative and you can be applauded for doing your due diligence to improve the club.

[Dry Rot]

I really hope there's some truth to Dunks being pissed off being bashed up in the ruck, whether he stays or he goes.

Would be a big wake up call for the coach and MC about our ridiculous ruck situation.

[bornadog]

I really hope there's some truth to Dunks being pissed off being bashed up in the ruck, whether he stays or he goes.

Would be a big wake up call for the coach and MC about our ridiculous ruck situation.

Isn't it just supporters complaining?

[ledge]

Sorry, I didn't see this one before I posted my reply to your earlier post.

I don't see us as a dynasty club, and possibly players see us (like me) as a rebuilding club. If we were right smack bang in the conversation for winning multiple flags perhaps it would be different with Dunkley and a reported doubling of wages wouldn't be so appealing to him. But we're not.

Hardly see Essendon as a dynasty club either. We are more chance than them though.

[Rocket Science]

I'll say this much and forgive my French but if we're not already balls deep into Tippa, we'd better be now.

Hai Sam Power.

[GVGjr]

I really hope there's some truth to Dunks being pissed off being bashed up in the ruck, whether he stays or he goes.

Would be a big wake up call for the coach and MC about our ridiculous ruck situation.

Have you spiced this up a bit? I've read a bit from the journos about him not liking being used so much in the ruck but "pissed off and bashed-up" is a bit stronger than I have read from the media reports.

If the speculation produces a review of our ruck set-up then great but I don't think Dunks is a whinger.

[kruder]

Have you spiced this up a bit? I've read a bit from the journos about him not liking being used so much in the ruck but "pissed off and bashed-up" is a bit stronger than I have read from the media reports.

If the speculation produces a review of our ruck set-up then great but I don't think Dunks is a whinger.

I reckon it would be more his old man, his family wouldn't have liked him playing ruck after breaking his backside off to come back from a serious ankle injury. He is a young kid his dad will have a significant influence on him and we all know money talks.

He has been well identified by Essendon, but we need to be firm the only way we trade him is because of a serious player coming back the other way. I'm not sure we have someone on our radar it looked like we were going to be bit part players going into trade period, it will be interesting what our club can come up with.

[Happy Days]

Question - is Baines in any way involved with trade and list management?

Just had it pointed out to me that last time he dealt with Dodo he gave up pick 5 for Carlise under a storm of drug clouds, so would rather he not be.

[azabob]

Question - is Baines in any way involved with trade and list management?

Just had it pointed out to me that last time he dealt with Dodo he gave up pick 5 for Carlise under a storm of drug clouds, so would rather he not be.

He also would’ve rubber stamped and recommended Josh Bruce last year.

[GVGjr]

Question - is Baines in any way involved with trade and list management?

Just had it pointed out to me that last time he dealt with Dodo he gave up pick 5 for Carlise under a storm of drug clouds, so would rather he not be.

He would be across it but not making the decisions.

It was a timing issue for the Saints and Bains

The AFL Players Association advised Jake Carlisle's manager not to inform St Kilda of the allegations against the player despite knowing that Channel Nine was threatening to expose footage of Carlisle taking illicit drugs.

In a revelation which has created significant friction between the Saints and the players union it has emerged that the AFLPA knew about the allegations against Carlisle in the hours that preceded his trade to St Kilda but said nothing and advised Anthony McConville to do the same. The players' union has since said it would not sanction McConville.

Carlisle and McConville fronted the AFL's integrity bosses on Thursday with the player having admitted he misled his manager when first contacted about the vision which was shown on A Current Affair last Wednesday, just hours after his multimillion-dollar agreement with the Saints was ratified by the AFL.

Players boss Paul Marsh admitted to Fairfax Media that McConville sought the advice of the AFLPA. He said he backed the decision of the players' union to initially withhold the information from St Kilda although he admitted the timing had been unfortunate. "Whilst the timing could not have been more unsatisfactory for the club as it turned out, the agent would have been breaching his obligations to the player if he was to act on the limited information he was aware of any earlier."

[ledge]

He also would’ve rubber stamped and recommended Josh Bruce last year.

Wouldn’t say he recommends but might do the sign offs.
Power would be the one doing the homework and recommending and I would say the whole football management department would do the due diligence on any contracts and players.
This would include Chris Grant , Luke Darcy and our President among others

[Happy Days]

He would be across it but not making the decisions.

It was a timing issue for the Saints and Bains

The AFL Players Association advised Jake Carlisle's manager not to inform St Kilda of the allegations against the player despite knowing that Channel Nine was threatening to expose footage of Carlisle taking illicit drugs.

In a revelation which has created significant friction between the Saints and the players union it has emerged that the AFLPA knew about the allegations against Carlisle in the hours that preceded his trade to St Kilda but said nothing and advised Anthony McConville to do the same. The players' union has since said it would not sanction McConville.

Carlisle and McConville fronted the AFL's integrity bosses on Thursday with the player having admitted he misled his manager when first contacted about the vision which was shown on A Current Affair last Wednesday, just hours after his multimillion-dollar agreement with the Saints was ratified by the AFL.

Players boss Paul Marsh admitted to Fairfax Media that McConville sought the advice of the AFLPA. He said he backed the decision of the players' union to initially withhold the information from St Kilda although he admitted the timing had been unfortunate. "Whilst the timing could not have been more unsatisfactory for the club as it turned out, the agent would have been breaching his obligations to the player if he was to act on the limited information he was aware of any earlier."

Even so he still gave up pick 5 for a player that was extremely likely to receive some sort of sanction from ASADA for the next season. Made our boneheaded trade for Crameri look like a masterpiece.

[azabob]

Wouldn’t say he recommends but might do the sign offs.
Power would be the one doing the homework and recommending and I would say the whole football management department would do the due diligence on any contracts and players.
This would include Chris Grant , Luke Darcy and our President among others

Of course Baines recommended Bruce.

Baines was list manager at st.kilda. Power would’ve got Baines opinion on Bruce.

[Grantysghost]

Of course Baines recommended Bruce.

Baines was list manager at st.kilda. Power would’ve got Baines opinion on Bruce.

That's a prudent thing to do though right? I'm assuming we would be more astounded if the opposite occurred.

[azabob]

That's a prudent thing to do though right? I'm assuming we would be more astounded if the opposite occurred.

Yep, exactly.

[jeemak]

Richmond built their dynasty after our premiership in 2016, and they did it with a game plan that was refined and improved on what we did in 2015-16. There is no reason whatsoever why we couldn't have built on 2016 to form our own dynasty. Clearly we didn't.

As a supporter, I'm as guilty as anyone for treating 2017 like a big holiday (probably moreso as I went on 3 overseas holidays that year). The truly great clubs get a taste and they get hungry for more. It's fair to say we didn't handle it from the top down, and now we have fabric players under 23 reportedly wanting to leave the club for another club that is frankly rubbish and has been for most of this century. It is just not a good look for us.

Geelong will improve again next year, ditto Richmond. Port definitely will, as will Brisbane. St Kilda are very proactive in improving their list after having a more successful season than us. How on earth are we going to jump ahead of all these clubs, let alone get ahead of teams around us (West Coast, Collingwood) and aggressive teams below us?

We dropped the ball, and last night was a very sobering reminder of just how much we failed to grasp our gilt-edged opportunity to develop a dynasty at the end of 2016.

I don't disagree with what you've said about our collective efforts in 2017 and 2018, though essentially we've missed the boat on building a dynasty given there's been four seasons between our premiership and now. Given that I don't think you can compare us possibly losing one player to an offer that's reportedly going to double his salary and give his brother a chance at rekindling a fledgling AFL career to Geelong, Hawthorn or whoever not losing key players (aside from Ablett and Franklin of course) in the middle of a premiership run.

So yes, we stuffed up after 2016, but that's done and dusted and we've been rebuilding for a couple of years now. Perhaps I'm being too pragmatic but I view this alleged situation as something entirely independent of anything that's happened in the past, other than to say we've drafted similar midfielders and there's a squeeze for inside spots.

[jeemak]

Even so he still gave up pick 5 for a player that was extremely likely to receive some sort of sanction from ASADA for the next season. Made our boneheaded trade for Crameri look like a masterpiece.

So what should he have done? Unless I'm missing something didn't the trade happen before he and the Saints found out about the drug taking?

[jeemak]

Of course Baines recommended Bruce.

Baines was list manager at st.kilda. Power would’ve got Baines opinion on Bruce.


That's a prudent thing to do though right? I'm assuming we would be more astounded if the opposite occurred.


Yep, exactly.


He also would’ve rubber stamped and recommended Josh Bruce last year.

Absolutely he would have recommended him and prior to this season it would have been, on available evidence and experience, a good recommendation.

[Happy Days]

So what should he have done?

Well if it were up to me I would have simply not done the trade at all, but the pick we gave up could've been at least a whole round later given the circumstances.

[jeemak]

Well if it were up to me I would have simply not done the trade at all, but the pick we gave up could've been at least a whole round later given the circumstances.

Are you saying you'd have not done the trade at all based on information you didn't have, or just because you don't think Carlisle is worth it?

If you're arguing the second point, then sure. I kind of agree with you, pick five was a big price to pay.

[Happy Days]

Are you saying you'd have not done the trade at all based on information you didn't have, or just because you don't think Carlisle is worth it?

If you're arguing the second point, then sure. I kind of agree with you, pick five was a big price to pay.

I don’t think he was worth it but I also think the risk exposure was kind of ignored, almost arrogantly so.

Reminds me a lot of the negotiations around De Goey this year now that I think about it.

[bornadog]

Ricky Nixon linking us to Kyle - :D

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Well one thing is certain, it's going to be an interesting trade period for us.

[jeemak]

I don’t think he was worth it but I also think the risk exposure was kind of ignored, almost arrogantly so.

Reminds me a lot of the negotiations around De Goey this year now that I think about it.

So you're suggesting his reputation preceded him to the extent he should have been avoided in the first place, least of all for the price.

[WBFC4FFC]

Well one thing is certain, it's going to be an interesting trade period for us.

Just some random thoughts from me given the Dunkley saga and the posts to date:
- If he wants to stay for the right reasons, he will go on to have a brilliant career. Rick Kennedy said as much when (as Director of the Bulldogs) he said Chris Grant will go to another level as a result of staying for the right reasons and not following Port's inducements at the time.
- Anyone who saw Open Mike with Andrew Dunkley can see he is pretty bitter with the Swans post his career, given he was jibbed a coaching role and being lukewarm on Josh. He will be advising him that loyalty does not get reciprocated i would think.
- Can Josh see he will be getting more game time in the middle going forward? His season was impacted by injury. Despite this, he is invaluable up forward, given his marking prowess. Any coach would use him up forward as well. If he was not as good overhead, he would be in the middle more often.
- Free Agency for him in two years time, is it? A lot can happen in that period, where he will be at his prime and thus, could even be commanding a similar pay-packet (hopefully at the Bullies). Committing to the Bummers for five-years means he misses out on Free Agency, where he could be more in demand by other clubs, with better cultures than the Bummers (i.e.: the rest of the comp).
- Who knows, maybe he cracks it like Cyclops (aka: Griffin) pulls a George Costanza to get sacked and the Club can use it to its advantage to get the players it requires (like Tom Boyd).
- Never known of a win-win trade with the Bummers in my lifetime.

[DOG GOD]

The thing that worries me more than anything is having to deal with dodo if a trade is to go ahead. He’s astute and bull headed as any list manager and ALWAYS stretches the simplest trades out to the last hour, putting pressure on the other team to bend over. I don’t hold much hope (even though we hold all the cards) that we would come out of this as a CLEAR winner.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

The thing that worries me more than anything is having to deal with dodo if a trade is to go ahead. He’s astute and bull headed as any list manager and ALWAYS stretches the simplest trades out to the last hour, putting pressure on the other team to bend over. I don’t hold much hope (even though we hold all the cards) that we would come out of this as a CLEAR winner.

Then it’s pretty simple. We don’t trade. We’re not forced to deal here. In fact we’d be doing everything we can not to do a trade and Dodo must give us the world for us to even consider it. They have ZERO leverage.

[DOG GOD]

Then it’s pretty simple. We don’t trade. We’re not forced to deal here. In fact we’d be doing everything we can not to do a trade and Dodo must give us the world for us to even consider it. They have ZERO leverage.

Exactly, but until dunks himself comes out and says he’s staying a bulldog, the uncertainty will linger.

[GVGjr]

The thing that worries me more than anything is having to deal with dodo if a trade is to go ahead. He’s astute and bull headed as any list manager and ALWAYS stretches the simplest trades out to the last hour, putting pressure on the other team to bend over. I don’t hold much hope (even though we hold all the cards) that we would come out of this as a CLEAR winner.

I see it as a positive. Once a club flags their intent to acquire a contracted player then the onus is on them to get the deal done
Essendon didn't fold with the Swans about Daniher (bet they wish they did) and the contracted player stayed

Essendon folded with Dylan Smith because they felt like they had to pay overs to get a player who was committed to them

If we fold with Dunkley then we might as well put and open for business sign on all our young players so I'm still very confident that Dunks remains a Dog in 2021

[Mofra]

Ricky Nixon linking us to Kyle - :D
God that would be funny - Bombers missing out on both Dunkleys

[comrade]

God that would be funny - Bombers missing out on both Dunkleys

It would be funnier if they end up with Kyle only.

[Happy Days]

It would be funnier if they end up with Kyle only.

Why would it be funny? They rate him too and it is not just a thin attempt at emotional manipulation, they said so!

Another trade week success. Undefeated and undisputed.

[Bulldog4life]

Wouldn't be surprised if they eventually have a go at Bevo.

[bornadog]

ESSENDON LAUNCH SURPRISING BID TO REUNITE DUNKLEY BROTHERS (https://www.sen.com.au/news/2020/10/25/essendon-launch-surprising-bid-to-reunite-dunkley-brothers/)

ESSENDON has told Josh Dunkley it will re-draft his delisted brother Kyle as the sweetener to a blockbuster contract to lure him to Tullamarine.

The Bombers’ bold raid on the Western Bulldogs’ contracted star has been franked by a lucrative contract said to be worth around $650-700k a season for 4-5 years.

But the potential lifeline for younger brother Kyle, delisted last month by Melbourne, has also gone into a package that is tempting Josh, the Dogs’ 24-year-old premiership midfielder.

Josh and Kyle are the sons of former Sydney full-back Andrew Dunkley – and with professional netball sister Lara and mum Lisa – are a very tight-knit family.

Dunkley has not put in a trade request, but even if he does, the Bulldogs will refuse to deal a best-22 player who still has two years to run on a three-year contract signed only half-way through last season.

The Bombers’ approach is understood to have surprised the Dogs, but the club will have no hesitation blocking any forthcoming trade and are supremely confident Dunkley is not the sort of character to disrupt the playing group if he is made to stay and that he will knuckle back down for 2021.

Dunkley had an excellent 2019 campaign, finishing runner-up in the Dogs’ best and fairest, but a syndesmosis injury in June derailed his 2020 season.

Tom Liberatore’s re-emergence saw Dunkley shuffled down the midfielder order a bit and he was even asked to play ruck on occasion.

However, he is said not to be disgruntled at the Whitten Oval, where he is close mates with captain Marcus Bontempelli and certain to thrive again if he gets a clean run at next season.

[GVGjr]

A balanced article which confirms my thoughts that he will be a Dog next year and beyond

[Bulldog4life]

The offer has gone down now from $200,000 to $250,000;)

[comrade]

If that article is correct, surely Dunks isn't on such a low ball deal with us that he'd leave for 650-700k a year?

[Bulldog4life]

If that article is correct, surely Dunks isn't on such a low ball deal with us that he'd leave for 650-700k a year?

Thinking the same.

[hujsh]

Yeah that's too low. 900k is a lot but 600 I'm sure he can get here.

[soupman]

Thats the most reassuring "star player might be traded" article I've ever read. Would be very doubtful he'd leave for that.

[Grantysghost]

Why would it be funny? They rate him too and it is not just a thin attempt at emotional manipulation, they said so!

Another trade week success. Undefeated and undisputed.

Maybe Kyle was their target all along and Josh was the carrot!

[Bulldog4life]

Looking forward for Dunks to make a statement or his manager. Either way at least we know without assuming.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I just can't believe that the media think it's ok to offer the fate of Josh's brothers career as incentive to bring him over. I do 100% believe that Essendon would do something like that. But jeez that scum of a club just keeps getting lower and lower with it's pitiful behaviour. I wish Gia all the best and hope he survives with his integrity in tack but Josh, for the love of god, you have a choice and it's pretty obvious.

[1eyedog]

Agreed 550-600K is a long way from the 900K originally touted. If he's not leaving for money I don't see any other reason for him to leave. I actually don't even think Kyle would be ok with only getting drafted to lure Josh over but if that's what they want I'm sure we can bring Kyle over to Footscray to be with his brother with the caveat that if he plays well he can earn a rookie spot on the main list.

[GVGjr]

So how confident is everyone now about Dunkley staying?

I rate Dunks but the reported 900K was way too high

[azabob]

So how confident is everyone now about Dunkley staying?

I rate Dunks but the reported 900K was way too high

I'm now 50/50 and will be until end of trade period!

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

So how confident is everyone now about Dunkley staying?

I rate Dunks but the reported 900K was way too high

I'm pretty confident he stays. As you've identified, opening up a way out for contracted young stars is only a recipe to encourage other clubs to come head hunting our other young guns.
I don't see anything that would tell me Josh wasn't professional enough to get on with it and complete his contract - even if he was keen to take up Essendon's offer. Nor can I envisage personal relationships have deteriorated to a point that makes it untenable for him to stay.

[1eyedog]

So how confident is everyone now about Dunkley staying?

I rate Dunks but the reported 900K was way too high

I feel 70/30 that he stays now. If an offer of 900K was on the table I'd say I have no hope he stays but this new figure does not get Essendon across the line for mine. I don't particularly want Dunks to go but he is replaceable and I'd entertain Tippa and something else good coming back to us for him. We could really use Tippa up forward.

[bornadog]

I'm now 50/50 and will be until end of trade period!

I am not happy that he hasn't come out and said he is staying. I want this to happen within the next few days - either way.

[hujsh]

I am not happy that he hasn't come out and said he is staying. I want this to happen within the next few days - either way.

On one hand, yes.

On the other he's not obligated to speak against every rumour associated with him.

[Grantysghost]

So how confident is everyone now about Dunkley staying?

I rate Dunks but the reported 900K was way too high

I'm not sure why we instantly believe the lowered figure granted it does seem more reasonable. Usually the truth lies somewhere in between, so I wouldn't be surprised if the offer was 750-850. I'm not sure; there's something to it however I'm still 70-30 he stays. The brother thing seems too bizarre to be true. Considering he has two years to run, it would have to be an amazing deal for us to consider letting him leave. My guess he says he's interested to the club and is there any chance they would deal, they say no and it dies from there.

[chef]

On one hand, yes.

On the other he's not obligated to speak against every rumour associated with him.

Surely Stevo could give him a bell and get the scoop

[Rocket Science]

On the other he's not obligated to speak against every rumour associated with him.

Exactly. Besides, we've posited our response circa the CEO anyway which roughly translates as nice try dickheads, now run along and resume tending to your steaming pile of a list.

[Scorlibo]

It's taken a while since 2016 to rebuild a strong leadership group, and Dunkley seems to have been at the forefront of the new wave. For this reason alone, I would be incredibly disappointed to see him go.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

On one hand, yes.

On the other he's not obligated to speak against every rumour associated with him.

I agree but this has been a fairly heavy and persistent rumour. I thought, 900k, ok any sane person would have to consider an opportunity to double ones income. But it's not that. So I'm a bit concerned he hasn't put it to bed. I would have thought if he was 100% staying this would have happened by now. The silence, to me, means he's at least considering things.

[Bullies]

I agree but this has been a fairly heavy and persistent rumour. I thought, 900k, ok any sane person would have to consider an opportunity to double ones income. But it's not that. So I'm a bit concerned he hasn't put it to bed. I would have thought if he was 100% staying this would have happened by now. The silence, to me, means he's at least considering things. The silence is the issue here. Essendon have a truckload to be able to front end the contract for the next 2 years as part of a 5 year deal.

[bornadog]

I agree but this has been a fairly heavy and persistent rumour. I thought, 900k, ok any sane person would have to consider an opportunity to double ones income. But it's not that. So I'm a bit concerned he hasn't put it to bed. I would have thought if he was 100% staying this would have happened by now. The silence, to me, means he's at least considering things.

He is most likely enjoying a holiday up North and not even thinking about it at this stage.

[Bulldog4life]

AFL Trade Radio
@traderadio
·
Oct 26
Shortly
@Sammy__Edmund
and
@Adamcooney17
will pull apart the Josh Dunkley situation and what might unfold with the Bulldogs premiership player.

[comrade]

AFL Trade Radio
@traderadio
·
Oct 26
Shortly
@Sammy__Edmund
and
@Adamcooney17
will pull apart the Josh Dunkley situation and what might unfold with the Bulldogs premiership player.

Really keen to hear Adam Cooney's completely neutral take on a Bulldogs player moving over to Essendon.

[jeemak]

Really keen to hear Adam Cooney's completely neutral take on a Bulldogs player moving over to Essendon.

It's not just the floors, even the coffee's better in Tullamarine!

[Topdog]

Really keen to hear Adam Cooney's completely neutral take on a Bulldogs player moving over to Essendon.

Very interested to hear the thoughts of someone who left the Bulldogs for Essendon only to watch the Dogs win the flag. Should be good.

[EasternWest]

If that article is correct, surely Dunks isn't on such a low ball deal with us that he'd leave for 650-700k a year?

There's a financial tipping point he couldn't say no to, and 650-700 ain't it.

On another note that just occurred to me: it's amazing how we can discuss such massive dollars in such a blase fashion.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

There's a financial tipping point he couldn't say no to, and 650-700 ain't it.

On another note that just occurred to me: it's amazing how we can discuss such massive dollars in such a blase fashion.

Yeah like those sh*t players on peanuts of 200k

[comrade]

Yeah like those sh*t players on peanuts of 200k

Peasants!

[bornadog]

There's a financial tipping point he couldn't say no to, and 650-700 ain't it.

On another note that just occurred to me: it's amazing how we can discuss such massive dollars in such a blase fashion.

As Ledge mentioned take out 45% tax and net is not as lucrative.

If he is on $450k to $500k now, the extra dollars at $200k amount to net $110k. So the question becomes is it worth it, when Dogs may give you more in the future?

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

As Ledge mentioned take out 45% tax and net is not as lucrative.

If he is on $450k to $500k now, the extra dollars at $200k amount to net $110k. So the question becomes is it worth it, when Dogs may give you more in the future?

I really doubt the majority of players are paying 45% on their earnings. The vast majority would be receiving financial advice to enable them to substantially reduce their taxable income.

[comrade]

And if its 700k on the books, you know there is some sort of sweetener, off the books type deal being offered as well (vehicles, property portfolio BS etc).

[bornadog]

I really doubt the majority of players are paying 45% on their earnings. The vast majority would be receiving financial advice to enable them to substantially reduce their taxable income.

Yeah, nah. Very difficult to do that - you may know better than me.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Yeah, nah. Very difficult to do that - you may know better than me.

Most people earning that sort of income, are getting excellent tax advice to legally reduce their current tax bill.
Edit:: Sorry meant tax bill, not necessarily their taxable income.

Its not difficult nor illegal...
I just wish I had the sort of disposable income that enabled me to do it!