Offseason recruiting priorities

[bulldogsthru&thru]

We're all well aware of the gaping holes in our list. Each offseason gives us a chance to address some of these areas, but only so much, especially this year if list sizes will be cut. So what should our priorities be? Which areas should we address first and foremost? What type of players should we go after?

Off the top of my head, the main areas of concern, in no particular order are:

1. Speed
2. Small forwards (with natural goal sense and speed who can rove packs and apply pressure)
3. A big bodied full back who can take the opposition monster forwards
4. A ruckman who can work in tandem with Tim
5. Players with decent foot skills
6. Defensive mids

[Vred]

1. Speed
2. X-Factor small forward
3. Gorilla-tier lockdown defender for those monster forwards like Charlie Dixon

I think, that's all we need.

[1eyedog]

Quality small forward and we once again should go all out for the best available.

Re. the gorilla full back we just aren't going to after one because this type of player is not on Bevo's to get list. Just have to start playing Lew Young. Similarly, we don't need another ruckman until we fully assess where Sweet is at.

While Vander and Smith's rise has addressed some of our speed issues we need speed inside the contest, an explosive speedy mid that unfortunately looks highly unlikely in the short term.

The focus should be to trade in best available small forward and look at drafting the best available speedy midfielder.

[bornadog]

Quality small forward and we once again should go all out for the best available.

Re. the gorilla full back we just aren't going to after one because this type of player is not on Bevo's to get list. Just have to start playing Lew Young. Similarly, we don't need another ruckman until we fully assess where Sweet is at.

While Vander and Smith's rise has addressed some of our speed issues we need speed inside the contest, an explosive speedy mid that unfortunately looks highly unlikely in the short term.

The focus should be to trade in best available small forward and look at drafting the best available speedy midfielder.

This^

I think the club has tried to address the speed issue to add to JJ, Richards with Smith, Vandermeer, Cavarra.

Another speedy midfielder would be handy

[Grantysghost]

Josh Kelly and Tom Papley. Work backwards from those two as the mould.

[1eyedog]

This^

I think the club has tried to address the speed issue to add to JJ, Richards with Smith, Vandermeer, Cavarra.

Another speedy midfielder would be handy

Yeah we're very one paced at the source and have to revert to flicking the ball around way too much to get it to the outside.

I agree Papley and Kelly are the right prototypes.

[Axe Man]

Similarly, we don't need another ruckman until we fully assess where Sweet is at.

I agree that we won't chase a ruckman of any note, however assuming Tregove is gone at year end we surely need another young ruckman or state league type as insurance for English and Sweet.

[Grantysghost]

Yeah we're very one paced at the source and have to revert to flicking the ball around way too much to get it to the outside.

I agree Papley and Kelly are the right prototypes.

I actually like Ainsworth from the Suns as a potential Papley. Only 22. Maybe doesn’t kick enough goals only 3 so far this season. But that type of thinking is what I hope we are doing.

[1eyedog]

I agree that we won't chase a ruckman of any note, however assuming Tregove is gone at year end we surely need another young ruckman or state league type as insurance for English and Sweet.

Agreed. I'd be looking at later picks or state leagues. Makes it difficult when we've essentially had a gap year in the VFL though. It will be a speculative pick I think purely for back up but I also wonder if Bevo even views three ruckman on the list as desireable.

[GVGjr]

Josh Kelly and Tom Papley. Work backwards from those two as the mould.

We have a few needs but I suspect we might just go hard at one player via free agency

It will be interesting to see who we might target

[bornadog]

We have a few needs but I suspect we might just go hard at one player via free agency

It will be interesting to see who we might target

I like Sedat's thoughts on Williams, he is just what we need.

[Remi Moses]

1. Speed
2. X-Factor small forward
3. Gorilla-tier lockdown defender for those monster forwards like Charlie Dixon

I think, that's all we need.

Likewise here

[Dancin' Douggy]

All, well most, of the X factor small speedy forwards are indigenous players. I know it's kind of wrong in a way to racially profile a 'type' like that but it seems to be true. We are screaming out for a Charlie Cameron type, and with JUH landing next year I really hope we're trying to address our lack of indigenous talent, and trying to find pace and X factor at the same time.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Quality small forward and we once again should go all out for the best available.

Re. the gorilla full back we just aren't going to after one because this type of player is not on Bevo's to get list. Just have to start playing Lew Young. Similarly, we don't need another ruckman until we fully assess where Sweet is at.

While Vander and Smith's rise has addressed some of our speed issues we need speed inside the contest, an explosive speedy mid that unfortunately looks highly unlikely in the short term.

The focus should be to trade in best available small forward and look at drafting the best available speedy midfielder.

Can Smith be this guy?

I agree with the line of thinking that speed and a small forward are our most pressing needs.

Others will know more than me but I don't think we'll have much currency with draft picks this year as most of it will be going towards JUH and Raak. We might have to be shrewd at the trade table and target some moneyball free agents.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

All, well most, of the X factor small speedy forwards are indigenous players. I know it's kind of wrong in a way to racially profile a 'type' like that but it seems to be true. We are screaming out for a Charlie Cameron type, and with JUH landing next year I really hope we're trying to address our lack of indigenous talent, and trying to find pace and X factor at the same time.

Yeah we haven't had much luck in this regard lately. Missing out on Impey, then Wingard, then Martin but also having the Saints and Dees swoop in before us in the draft to grab Long and Pickett respectively. Long was the most annoying, especially seeing his progress now and knowing him well from Footscray.

[G-Mo77]

Yeah we haven't had much luck in this regard lately. Missing out on Impey, then Wingard, then Martin but also having the Saints and Dees swoop in before us in the draft to grab Long and Pickett respectively. Long was the most annoying, especially seeing his progress now and knowing him well from Footscray.

Draft day I remember seeing him go at 26ish. At the time I thought that was too high and we would have had to have traded up or drafted him in the teens to get him.

This is my memory of it. I'm probably wrong and would have to fact check. I was bummed we missed both Long and Hannan.

[comrade]

I don't know if we ever seriously considered him, but selecting Shai Bolton instead of Pat Lipinski would make a hell of a lot of sense right now.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I don't know if we ever seriously considered him, but selecting Shai Bolton instead of Pat Lipinski would make a hell of a lot of sense right now.

Looks a special player, even moreso now he's playing mid minutes.

[Axe Man]

Long (pick 25 in 2016) looks a decent player but he's not a quick small forward is he? I think he has been playing back this season. I certainly wouldn't swap him for our first pick in English (19) and I'm not sure he's achieved more than our next pick in Lipinski (28) to this stage of their careers.

What has happened to the pick immediately before Long in Cedric Cox from Brisbane? Has played 1 game in the last 2 years. I seem to recall some interest in him.

I was keen on Ah Chee last year who Brisbane picked up for reasonable price and looked good against us on Saturday.

[GVGjr]

Long (pick 25 in 2016) looks a decent player but he's not a quick small forward is he? I think he has been playing back this season. I certainly wouldn't swap him for our first pick in English (19) and I'm not sure he's achieved more than our next pick in Lipinski (28) to this stage of their careers.

What has happened to the pick immediately before Long in Cedric Cox from Brisbane? Has played 1 game in the last 2 years. I seem to recall some interest in him.

I was keen on Ah Chee last year who Brisbane picked up for reasonable price and looked good against us on Saturday.

The Saints grabbed him before our selections

From memory our plan was to take English in the first round, Long in the 2nd, Lipinski or Hannan in the 3rd and Lewis Young with our last pick.
Greene was going to be a rookie pick. When Long was selected beforehand, we moved the players up by a round and Hannan had been selected by Melbourne

Don't you just love draft day machinations :)

[Dancin' Douggy]

Yeah we haven't had much luck in this regard lately. Missing out on Impey, then Wingard, then Martin but also having the Saints and Dees swoop in before us in the draft to grab Long and Pickett respectively. Long was the most annoying, especially seeing his progress now and knowing him well from Footscray.

Wingard and Impey I can live without, think they're pretty selfish players, but I thought Martin would have been great for us. Long hurts a bit. Richmond seems to have no trouble unearthing these types. We just never seem to be able to.

[kruder]

Butters :p

[Axe Man]

The Suns just dropped Alex Sexton, I think I could live with taking him off their hands.

[Happy Days]

The Suns just dropped Alex Sexton, I think I could live with taking him off their hands.

Good call, but I'm pretty sure he's signed for a long while.

[bornadog]

Clubs circle Giants star, despite five-year offer (https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/clubs-circle-giants-star-despite-five-year-offer-20200811-p55krd.html)


Multiple clubs are circling Greater Western Sydney free agent Zac Williams, who has left a sizeable five-year contract offer from the Giants unsigned since last year as he weighs up his future.

But while many clubs, from Victoria and other states, have registered an interest in Williams, none has yet been able to make a formal offer for the dashing half-back while he decides his next move.

The GWS contract offer, which was made in December last year, still stands, although it is unclear what impact the pay cuts due to COVID-19 would have on the offer should Williams, 25, decide to stay.

GWS has been in contract discussions with the management of gun key forward Jeremy Cameron, another restricted free agent. Cameron – one of the highest-paid players in the competition this year due to his back-ended deal – is seeking a long-term deal, the Giants remaining confident all along of retaining him.

GWS have the option of matching an offer for Williams, a restricted free agent, should he exercise his free agency rights. But this is unlikely given that he would be certain to attract a sufficient contract to earn GWS a first-round pick in return.

AFL club sources suggested that Williams, originally from Narrandera in NSW, would clearly attract upwards of $700,000 a year over a long-term deal in a pre-pandemic market place. It is possible that a club would be willing pay significantly more to get him out of GWS, which has a tight salary cap but has been highly successful in retaining stars.

The Giants also have to recontract emerging second-year midfielder Jye Caldwell, a Victorian who is of interest to Melbourne clubs but who is settled and happy in Sydney. For the Giants, opportunity to play is often the main issue with young midfielders such as Caldwell, who has played senior football and impressed this year.

Cameron is viewed by some rival clubs as the biggest free agent or out-of-contract player within the AFL, given his stature and the fact that his signature – and the price he fetches – would have a bearing on the Giants' playing list and their prospects of retaining other players.

The five-year offer to Williams is consistent with the club's succession of long-term deals to key players with skipper Stephen Coniglio and Lachie Whitfield signing seven-year deals, Toby Greene getting six years and Harry Himmelberg five.

Midfielder Josh Kelly signed a two-year extension with an option for a further eight years – a commitment of 10 years by the Giants when he signed the deal. Kelly can exercise that contract next year if he chooses, or explore free agency.

[Remi Moses]

I know he’s had his injury issues and he’s injured now
Alex Pearce at Freo would be one I’d look at
Hamling , Logue , and trying to turn Jesse Hogan into a key back have to come into the side
Thoughts ?

[Remi Moses]

It’s back again
Norf and War chest
Iconic duo that

[Axe Man]

I know he’s had his injury issues and he’s injured now
Alex Pearce at Freo would be one I’d look at
Hamling , Logue , and trying to turn Jesse Hogan into a key back have to come into the side
Thoughts ?

Nick Riewoldt has just come out and suggested Freo trade him. He would be perfect in our backline for the gorilla forwards but his season games played history of 13,8,0,21,11,0 is deeply concerning. You wouldn't want to give up too much but he's still contracted for another 2 seasons and I can't see Freo giving him away cheaply.

[Axe Man]

It’s back again
Norf and War chest
Iconic duo that

They have a heap of players out of contract and are looking like they need a clean out to rebuild. Any cheap as chips players of interest to us?

[comrade]

They have a heap of players out of contract and are looking like they need a clean out to rebuild. Any cheap as chips players of interest to us?

Not cheap as chips but Goldy for a few years with English playing forward/second ruck has some appeal to me. I'd imagine Timmy would come out of it a much better ruckman learning from Goldy every day.

[azabob]

Not cheap as chips but Goldy for a few years with English playing forward/second ruck has some appeal to me. I'd imagine Timmy would come out of it a much better ruckman learning from Goldy every day.

It would have massive appeal to me.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

It would have massive appeal to me.

It would. But the question is do we want to spend our chips on a ruck when we have more pressing needs?

[G-Mo77]

They have a heap of players out of contract and are looking like they need a clean out to rebuild. Any cheap as chips players of interest to us?

Higgins?

[bornadog]

Higgins?

No thanks. We don't need another slow mid who only runs one way

[azabob]

It would. But the question is do we want to spend our chips on a ruck when we have more pressing needs?

Beveridge wouldn't.

Could bringing in Goldstein help sort out our other pressing needs.

Providing our midfield more advantage of clean ball which could help our forward line connection and reduce easy ball into our back half.

As mentioned earlier it would also allow English time and space to develop as a genuine ruckman.

[azabob]

No thanks. We don't need another slow mid who only runs one way

Play him across HB, he loves that position on the field ;)

[G-Mo77]

No thanks. We don't need another slow mid who only runs one way

I'd find it very hard to cheer him if it did happen. I mean he didn't leave on bad terms, we really didn't want him. Something about him has just rubbed me up the wrong way since he's been to that club. Can't stand the guy.

[bornadog]

I'd find it very hard to cheer him if it did happen. I mean he didn't leave on bad terms, we really didn't want him. Something about him has just rubbed me up the wrong way since he's been to that club. Can't stand the guy.

I am with you.

[Mitcha]

Wouldn't come cheap but if we had any interest in anyone from Norf, it would be Robbie Tarrant for me for a couple of seasons. Plays most weeks, fills a massive area of need.and more of a need than Higgins or Goldstein. Can't see Norf entertaining offers for him but he deserves to go out in a side that would hopefully be contending rather than a rebuild at that rabble.

[Remi Moses]

No to Goldstein
Would hamper English’s development
Yes to Tarrant

[Happy Days]

Wouldn't come cheap but if we had any interest in anyone from Norf, it would be Robbie Tarrant for me for a couple of seasons. Plays most weeks, fills a massive area of need.and more of a need than Higgins or Goldstein. Can't see Norf entertaining offers for him but he deserves to go out in a side that would hopefully be contending rather than a rebuild at that rabble.

Tarrant is cooked. Has lost a step and can't keep up with anyone with pace on leads anymore.

[1eyedog]

Yeah Tarrant's not the answer. My feeling is that no Norf player would be useful.

[Axe Man]

Yeah Tarrant's not the answer. My feeling is that no Norf player would be useful.

That can't be true, there has to be some players there that would be useful.

I'm thinking more along the lines of a Crozier trade, not a big name like Higgins, Goldy or Tarrant. Perhaps a player that could be re-invented and re-invigorated in a different environment. I've got no idea who that player is but it's likely a player with some deficiencies (hence the cheap price) that can fill a role.

[Happy Days]

North have some nice talent but they won’t be available. Simpkin, Zurrhar and particularly Larkey all look like being excellent players.

We could maybe ask about Luke McDonald who’s turned his career around this season and has shown he can lock down mids as well as create drive off half back, but we’d be buying at his peak price and not really making our side better.

[Mofra]

That can't be true, there has to be some players there that would be useful.

I'm thinking more along the lines of a Crozier trade, not a big name like Higgins, Goldy or Tarrant. Perhaps a player that could be re-invented and re-invigorated in a different environment. I've got no idea who that player is but it's likely a player with some deficiencies (hence the cheap price) that can fill a role.
I know he's not a star (and has little contested game), but Rory Atkins as an outside runner/wingman. He's in and out of the Crows team and is an RFA.
I suspect he costs us nothing at the trade table and not much in salary, and instantly becomes a better second wing option than Hayes or our attempts to turn McLean and Richards into one. Has a decent tank so can run out a game.

[Grantysghost]

I know he's not a star (and has little contested game), but Rory Atkins as an outside runner/wingman. He's in and out of the Crows team and is an RFA.
I suspect he costs us nothing at the trade table and not much in salary, and instantly becomes a better second wing option than Hayes or our attempts to turn McLean and Richards into one. Has a decent tank so can run out a game.

Played reasonably well early in his career in that 2015 elimination from memory. Not a bad suggestion.

Edit : wrong guy it was Riley Knight I was thinking of. I cant delete posts so best I can do :cool:

[Axe Man]

I know he's not a star (and has little contested game), but Rory Atkins as an outside runner/wingman. He's in and out of the Crows team and is an RFA.
I suspect he costs us nothing at the trade table and not much in salary, and instantly becomes a better second wing option than Hayes or our attempts to turn McLean and Richards into one. Has a decent tank so can run out a game.

I guess Adelaide are in a similar position to North, need a clean out and rebuild. Atkins sounds like the kind of value trade we could look at.


THE ADELAIDE PLAYERS WHO COULD LEAVE THE CLUB AT THE END OF 2020 (https://www.sen.com.au/news/2020/08/11/the-adelaide-players-who-could-leave-the-club-at-the-end-of-2020/)

Kane Cornes believes there could be as many as 14 Adelaide Crows players who are currently fighting for their respective futures.

The Crows are still winless in 2020 and are facing the prospect of becoming the first AFL/VFL side since Fitzroy in 1964 not to win a match.


As the club readies themselves for a busy post-season, Cornes outlined the players who could exit Adelaide at the conclusion of the 2020 season.

“I think there are about 14 Adelaide players who’s futures are up in the air,” he said on SEN SA Breakfast.

“I’ve got no issue with Matthew Nicks dropping Jake Kelly because Kyle Hartigan comes back in – I don’t think you can play Kelly and Hartigan in the same team because they’re basically the same player.

“There are a number of Crows (who’s futures are questionable) – David Mackay is up in the air, Rory Atkins is certainly up in the air, Brad Crouch is out of contract, Riley Knight, Elliott Himmelberg and Jake Kelly … the way they go about making decisions on their list will be fascinating.

“Those decisions would’ve started to be happening right now and (list manager) Justin Reid has I think the most important job at the football club.

“There’s questions about list management and Hamish Ogilvie’s selections at the draft in recent years.

“They’re going to have a great draft hand and they’re going to have to make a call on their out of contracted players and that’s going to have to happen now.”

Adelaide will be looking for their first win this season when they take on an undermanned Collingwood outfit at Adelaide Oval on Tuesday night.

[Vred]

AFL media and rumour mill in over drive claiming Lachie Hunter will be leaving us at the end of the year...

where the hell do people come up with this shit

[azabob]

AFL media and rumour mill in over drive claiming Lachie Hunter will be leaving us at the end of the year...

where the hell do people come up with this shit

Head over to this thread!

https://www.woof.net.au/forum/showthread.php?19906-High-praise-for-Hunter&p=690641#post690641

[Mitcha]

North have some nice talent but they won’t be available. Simpkin, Zurrhar and particularly Larkey all look like being excellent players.

We could maybe ask about Luke McDonald who’s turned his career around this season and has shown he can lock down mids as well as create drive off half back, but we’d be buying at his peak price and not really making our side better.

Really? Another half back with over rated kicking skills, pass.

[Remi Moses]

God no to Luke McDonald
Poor user, and the type we have in spades

[Remi Moses]

Didn’t realize Tarrant’s 31 !!
Jeepus , that went fast

[Remi Moses]

AFL media and rumour mill in over drive claiming Lachie Hunter will be leaving us at the end of the year...

where the hell do people come up with this shit

Caroline Wilson , so it must be right

[AshMac]

Is there a situation where we trade our first pick for an established player - personally I’d love another tall lockdown defender - and then either bank our other picks of go into deficit for JUH? Are there rules against that?

[bulldogsthru&thru]

There’s talk from journos that we’ve declared a need for a small forward is our number 1 priority this offseason. I suppose the attempts at Wingard and Martin make this pretty obvious

[Smads57]

What about Darcy Macpherson - pretty handy for GC before they got this year's influx of high draft picks which have 'pushed' him out of the side.

Although not blessed with out and out pace, he can kick a goal and works hard to keep the ball inside the forward 50.

Pretty sure his contract ends this year with GC (others may know better).

I put Darcy forward as I think we need to be realistic in our aspirations for a 'big name' trade target. We just aren't a destination club nor do we play our games on the MCG.

Players like Crozier and Keath show we can get value from players 'fit for purpose'.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/bulldogs-targeting-small-pressure-forward-20200813-p55ljy.html?fbclid=IwAR2VuDWCbY40XPVhTDblsgJs702nBR-x2roXUdGeuBiRtpjhg64pL8N0IYo

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Been reported we may have interest in Lonie. Yuck. That’d make us worse I’d have thought

On the other hand, I’d welcome Hamling back with open arms.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-trade-whispers-dockers-relationship-breakdown-dogs-make-offseason-intentions-clear/news-story/7a5ddfcc283ac6348543edb978f24baf?fbclid=IwAR1ncHfYrN4Nr5_GFF FubjUkN-iBMx1PM31YD5y9I6er11Gpz2nhRHNRInc

[bornadog]

We should be having a word to Hamling:


Fremantle defender Joel Hamling’s relationship with the club is reportedly fractured, as the 27-year-old continues to navigate a troublesome ankle injury.

[Happy Days]

Lonie is decent player but isn't overly quick, I don't think he's what we're after.

[Mofra]

Lonie seems more finisher than pressure forward.

[1eyedog]

We could do worse than Lonie. He's an ok player but if we're after a high pressure forward he at least would bring that. He does go hard. Worth considering.

[Axe Man]

Tom Papley will do fine thanks.

[Vred]

Tom Papley will do fine thanks.

yes please

[Rocket Science]

Well Bevo's gone whack (https://www.afl.com.au/news/485412/-lachie-s-not-shopping-himself-around-bevo-slams-rumours) on that Hunter scuttlebut, as you'd expect him to do.

Gently potting Hunter's management in the process mind you ...

[Mantis]

I'll 'spew up' if we chase Lonie.. Plays for frees more than any other player in the comp. and isn't the type of player we require.

[bornadog]

I'll 'spew up' if we chase Lonie.. Plays for frees more than any other player in the comp. and isn't the type of player we require.

Thanks Clarko :D

On a serious note, I am with you.

[The Doctor]

Here's a few ideas

Ruck

Have long advocated we need more ruck depth. We won a premiership with 2 good ruckman with 2 experienced rucks in reserve. We need to address this as a matter of priority. We should consider a play for one of these 3 premiership ruckman who will be OOC at the end of this season;

Toby Nankervis (Rich) 2 time premiership ruckman who hasn't featured much this season. He would be perfect to 'lead' our ruck with English as back up. Still only 26 and entering his prime. He would be my priority. Think we would need a decent 2nd rounder and a good offer $$ wise to get him.

Nathan Vardy (WCE) injury prone but was a very good player in the Eagle's premiership year 2018. 29 yo so still has a few years and probably not too expensive.

Jordan Roughead (Coll) major player and leader in the Bulldogs flag. things went stale but I still think he has something to offer as a defender/ruckman. Surely he would have played most games this year???? Will be 30 next season and good for a couple of years and would be cheaper than the other two most likely.


Midfield

Have mentioned Zac Williams and Jye Caldwell in the Giant Raid thread in the List/Recruiting forum. Basically, yes please!

Jack Viney (Melb) RFA who could add much needed grunt & experience to our midfield which is sorely lacking it. Playing well this year and will be 27 next season. Won't cost us a draft pick. Think it could be a good option

Dan Venables (WCE) played in the premiership but has been out with concussion for a long time. Could be a boom or bust. Liked him as a junior and if he can recover sufficiently to play could have a big future.

[AshMac]

Here's a few ideas

Ruck

Have long advocated we need more ruck depth. We won a premiership with 2 good ruckman with 2 experienced rucks in reserve. We need to address this as a matter of priority. We should consider a play for one of these 3 premiership ruckman who will be OOC at the end of this season;

Toby Nankervis (Rich) 2 time premiership ruckman who hasn't featured much this season. He would be perfect to 'lead' our ruck with English as back up. Still only 26 and entering his prime. He would be my priority. Think we would need a decent 2nd rounder and a good offer $$ wise to get him.

Nathan Vardy (WCE) injury prone but was a very good player in the Eagle's premiership year 2018. 29 yo so still has a few years and probably not too expensive.

Jordan Roughead (Coll) major player and leader in the Bulldogs flag. things went stale but I still think he has something to offer as a defender/ruckman. Surely he would have played most games this year???? Will be 30 next season and good for a couple of years and would be cheaper than the other two most likely.


Midfield

Have mentioned Zac Williams and Jye Caldwell in the Giant Raid thread in the List/Recruiting forum. Basically, yes please!

Jack Viney (Melb) RFA who could add much needed grunt & experience to our midfield which is sorely lacking it. Playing well this year and will be 27 next season. Won't cost us a draft pick. Think it could be a good option

Dan Venables (WCE) played in the premiership but has been out with concussion for a long time. Could be a boom or bust. Liked him as a junior and if he can recover sufficiently to play could have a big future.

Do you think Jack Viney is gettable? I’d love him in the red, white and blue but would be amazed if there was even a sliver of a chance at prying him out.

[The Doctor]

Do you think Jack Viney is gettable? I’d love him in the red, white and blue but would be amazed if there was even a sliver of a chance at prying him out.

I can't answer that.

He's OOC, was replaced as captain, and there have been a couple of unsubstantiated murmurs that he 'could' be gettable.

So maybe!

[ReLoad]

what about a swap of Papley for Dunkley?

[Axe Man]

what about a swap of Papley for Dunkley?

Player swaps are pretty much unheard of these days and I don't think the Dunkleys want anything to do with the Swans. I would love Papley though.

[azabob]

Doc, I am 99% certain Roughead has re-signed with the Pies.

[bornadog]

Doc, I am 99% certain Roughead has re-signed with the Pies.

Yes new deal the other day

[The Doctor]

Doc, I am 99% certain Roughead has re-signed with the Pies.

OK cheers it was more wishful thinking on my part anyway on that one

[The Doctor]

Player swaps are pretty much unheard of these days and I don't think the Dunkleys want anything to do with the Swans. I would love Papley though.

How could we design an offer likely to satisfy the Swans?

[Axe Man]

How could we design an offer likely to satisfy the Swans?

Either trade someone out with currency for a first round pick or trade a future first rounder? Perhaps if we end up with a top 10 pick somehow turn that into 2 later picks, 1 for Papley, 1 to go towards JUH? Unlikely but we can dream.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

What about our leadership group. I think most areas are ok we just need time. I would be thinking we need to chase a true leader and offer them the clubs captaincy. I don’t think Bont has been much Chol this year with the addition of being captain.

That aside. We need to make a huge play for Papley or Tippa

[1eyedog]

Either trade someone out with currency for a first round pick or trade a future first rounder? Perhaps if we end up with a top 10 pick somehow turn that into 2 later picks, 1 for Papley, 1 to go towards JUH? Unlikely but we can dream.

JJ for Papley or enter into a 3 or 4 way trade that gets JJ either where he wants to go, the Swans with an excellent draft hand (or JJ) with Paps coming back to us. If you're talking currency JJ has it. Premiership player, Norm Smith medallist and has always played well against the Swans they may rate him.

Would be a difficult decision to make he's well liked and deeply embedded in the club and, while its highly unlikely to happen, these are the sorts of player we'd need to hemorrhage to get a player like Papley.

[AshMac]

I can't answer that.

He's OOC, was replaced as captain, and there have been a couple of unsubstantiated murmurs that he 'could' be gettable.

So maybe!

That’s more than enough for a glimmer of hope

[The Doctor]

What about our leadership group. I think most areas are ok we just need time. I would be thinking we need to chase a true leader and offer them the clubs captaincy. I don’t think Bont has been much Chol this year with the addition of being captain.

That aside. We need to make a huge play for Papley or Tippa

I think we went too early on Bont for Captain. I hoped Easton would go for another year .

A couple of senior recruits who are best 22 would help. We are a fairly young team after all

[soupman]

Polec dropped again. Hard running ball carrier who can break the lines, and North are tanking his trade value. Even if Hunter doesn't leave is he someone we should be targeting? I don't particularly like him but he is good.

[Happy Days]

Polec dropped again. Hard running ball carrier who can break the lines, and North are tanking his trade value. Even if Hunter doesn't leave is he someone we should be targeting? I don't particularly like him but he is good.

Apparently he doesn’t pass the no dickhead test. Not a stack of guys play for four clubs.

[1eyedog]

Quite over-rated imo

[macca]

There is a window of opportunity with adelaide ( 14 players under the gun ) and gws with their salary cap. Fremantle list is worth a look as well
I would be greasing the links keith has with any of the crows we show interests:
Adelaide:
1. Rory Atkins he was a gun in their grand final year. What has happened since his drop off?

2. HimMelberg - big marking forward and seems to be agile.

Gws:
1. Toby green . He needs to teach some of our players some mongrel. Player every opposition loves to hate
2. Small fwd : Daniels , Langdon or hill
3. Caldwell: has some size and another inside mid we need
Some news here

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/bulldogs-targeting-small-pressure-forward-20200813-p55ljy.html?fbclid=IwAR2VuDWCbY40XPVhTDblsgJs702nBR-x2roXUdGeuBiRtpjhg64pL8N0IYo
Freo:
1. Hamling : yes , we know what he can provide . Is Clinton young his manager ? We have good rapport trading with freo

Why in the world are we not playing Trengrove ? He can provide a chop out in the ruck and is a decent mark.

[Remi Moses]

There’s not a hope in Hell Sydney are trading Papley for Dunkley
Papley’s their most valuable commodity

[Danjul]

I think we went too early on Bont for Captain. I hoped Easton would go for another year .

A couple of senior recruits who are best 22 would help. We are a fairly young team after all
The only problem with the Bont is we have a game plan that only he can make work.

If we don’t win he cops all the blame.

Is it his fault ...
....we often get smashed in the ruck.
....have a dysfunctional forward line.
....the backmen seem swamped?

I think we will never see him correctly until he goes to another team.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

The only problem with the Bont is we have a game plan that only he can make work.

If we don’t win he cops all the blame.

Is it his fault ...
....we often get smashed in the ruck.
....have a dysfunctional forward line.
....the backmen seem swamped?

I think we will never see him correctly until he goes to another team.

I get your narrative. But its absolute rubbish to confect an issue with Bont, our game plan and people blaming him. I dont think anyone has attempted to pin our fortunes this season around his neck.
People have observed he is down on his lofty standards, have even queried whether or not captaincy was too soon, or a burden. But I don't think anyone has said our malaise is 'his fault'.

[Remi Moses]

The only problem with the Bont is we have a game plan that only he can make work.

If we don’t win he cops all the blame.

Is it his fault ...
....we often get smashed in the ruck.
....have a dysfunctional forward line.
....the backmen seem swamped?

I think we will never see him correctly until he goes to another team.

What utter nonsense

[Danjul]

I get your narrative. But its absolute rubbish to confect an issue with Bont, our game plan and people blaming him. I dont think anyone has attempted to pin our fortunes this season around his neck.
People have observed he is down on his lofty standards, have even queried whether or not captaincy was too soon, or a burden. But I don't think anyone has said our malaise is 'his fault'.
Your last five words are in the wrong order . They should be

his malaise is our fault.

[Remi Moses]

The only problem with the Bont is we have a game plan that only he can make work.

If we don’t win he cops all the blame.

Is it his fault ...
....we often get smashed in the ruck.
....have a dysfunctional forward line.
....the backmen seem swamped?

I think we will never see him correctly until he goes to another team.

So where or when does he cope “all the blame “? What on FB ? He hasn’t played as well as this year as he has, but they’re pretty lofty standards . I get it everyone’s frustrated and pissed off , but you’re just rambling incoherently

[Remi Moses]

Your last five words are in the wrong order . They should be

his malaise is our fault.

Really ? Great player having a slightly down year ? Gee there’s isn’t a great player who’s been brilliant EVERY season
So basically your point is he’d be a better player at another club ? My god I’ve heard some nonsense on here but that’s gold medal

[Happy Days]

Bont had 30 on the weekend, he’s a gun playing sore.

The tendency to blame a club’s best players for poor team wide performances is a logical failing that comes up again and again and always baffles me. Is it Bont being a superstar that is hurting us or is it a dysfunctional forward line, an ill-equipped at times back line, midfielders who can be guilty of running one way, no viable second wingman, or a combination of all but the former?

I know which one is an easier explanation and which one is right.

[Bulldog4life]

Doc, I am 99% certain Roughead has re-signed with the Pies.

Didn't Schache sign a new deal with Brisbane then 6 mths later he was gone. Contracts don't mean much these days although the chances of getting Roughy back would be minimal I would think.

[1eyedog]

Articles out this morning stating Lonie and Langdon (GWS) are our potential trade targets.

[Mofra]

Articles out this morning stating Lonie and Langdon (GWS) are our potential trade targets.
For the love of god, why Lonie? He's a finisher who, compared to other small forwards, offers less pressure than average.
He would have been a star in the 80s.

Langdon I've only seen flashes of, but I think the GWS/Bulldogs animosity makes getting any GWS player a bit more difficult. I'd prefer we hit up mjp for a hidden small forward in WA or two to rookie. An indigenous kid to enter the system at the same time as JUH, even better.

[1eyedog]

I agree with your post 100%. I'd take the article with a grain of salt. It's Zerohangar likely run by a 15 year old pimply kid in a basement. Not sure where they stole the info from.

[Mofra]

I agree with your post 100%. I'd take the article with a grain of salt. It's Zerohangar likely run by a 15 year old pimply kid in a basement. Not sure where they stole the info from.
Zerohanger is amatuer, but The Age ran with Langdon, Lonie and Bedford as trade targets last week.

[bornadog]

. An indigenous kid to enter the system at the same time as JUH, even better.

that is what we should be doing

[Happy Days]

Could do worse than Langdon to be honest. He’s not going to wow anyone with his skills but is a capable finisher (pretty sure he like all great hack forwards has a 5.0 game to his name) and will definitely bring the heat.

[Happy Days]

What about getting in the ear of Fischer McAsey? Dogs supporter, and I can't imagine he enjoys being flicked between key forward and back depending on how insecure Tex is feeling on a given week (or playing for the Crows in general). The Crows are in such a tenuous position that they would probably try to spin trading away their top pick from a year ago as a line in the sand moment or something. I know he's contracted but I want to get in ASAP before they wreck him.

They'd probably want at least a first inside 10 for him, but if he walks? Don't think they have the guts right now to make him stay.

[GVGjr]

What about getting in the ear of Fischer McAsey? Dogs supporter, and I can't imagine he enjoys being flicked between key forward and back depending on how insecure Tex is feeling on a given week (or playing for the Crows in general). The Crows are in such a tenuous position that they would probably try to spin trading away their top pick from a year ago as a line in the sand moment or something. I know he's contracted but I want to get in ASAP before they wreck him.

They'd probably want at least a first inside 10 for him, but if he walks? Don't think they have the guts right now to make him stay.

Yes and no. The Crows would want a first round pick for him and we would have to use next years to get him
His form hasn't been impressive at the moment which is understandable but it's why I think we should be cautious

[The Doctor]

What about getting in the ear of Fischer McAsey? Dogs supporter, and I can't imagine he enjoys being flicked between key forward and back depending on how insecure Tex is feeling on a given week (or playing for the Crows in general). The Crows are in such a tenuous position that they would probably try to spin trading away their top pick from a year ago as a line in the sand moment or something. I know he's contracted but I want to get in ASAP before they wreck him.

They'd probably want at least a first inside 10 for him, but if he walks? Don't think they have the guts right now to make him stay.

And we owe them for Tony McGuinness, Kym Koster, Shane Ellen and Simon Tregenza. And on a personal level Romano Negri!

I would look at McAsey next year if we need to bolster KP depth. We should first have a look at Jamarra and Raak to see how they look in our system.

[azabob]

What about getting in the ear of Fischer McAsey? Dogs supporter, and I can't imagine he enjoys being flicked between key forward and back depending on how insecure Tex is feeling on a given week (or playing for the Crows in general). The Crows are in such a tenuous position that they would probably try to spin trading away their top pick from a year ago as a line in the sand moment or something. I know he's contracted but I want to get in ASAP before they wreck him.

They'd probably want at least a first inside 10 for him, but if he walks? Don't think they have the guts right now to make him stay.

Sounds like he's already on our list...

[soupman]

It's at this point of the season that we can identify some players that are out of favour but could perform a role for us if recruited. Ideally this is the buy low portion of their career, and certainly i think many of these guys are worth giving a go over another year of Lynch/Hayes/Smith/Greene/Gowers etc. I generally think if a player isn't getting a game for a side, no matter how good the side is, that that is a big warning sign so I am not overly sold on many of these, but i do think there is some merit in looking into them.



Aliir Aliir: We need a good tall defender that can take the big guys and ideally isn't purely lockdown. Aliir is all that and is currently not getting picked in Sydneys side. Is he worth looking at for us?

Brayden Fiorini: We spent a lot of last year trying to create a hard running wingman out of Hayes and/or Smith but seem to have gone off that idea. Fiorini is that, is not getting picked in Gold Coasts side, and generally is good. Isn't quite the offensive threat that say an Isaac Smith is, but could be another Hunter type and really help link up our forwardline with the rest of the side.

Darcy McPherson: Kind of a more advanced Rhylee West type, big link to the Dogs, and not getting a look in at the now good Suns. Is a decent forward, can push up the flansk into a midfield type role, could be worth adding to the squad.

Ian Hill: Small indigenous forward who is a smooth mover and seems to be kind of the type we need imo. Only played the one game this year after getting a handful last year. GWS are pretty good judges, in that if a player isn't getting a game for them they usually aren't that good, so sceptical on this one but Hill certainly has attributes we could use.

Zac Langdon: Another small forward, gotten much more of a look in than Hill this season. Not sure he is quite the chaos forward i would like and could be more the Dale type. Two goals this year from 7 games is not very encouraging though.

Mitch Hannan: Seems to be in and out lately, and has the Dogs connection from his Footscray days. Again probably a bit much of a Lloyd type for me to be really keen, although is a better version of Gowers in that he is an aerial threat. Like Crozier and Howe before him is kind of a low possesion half forward who can take a speccy but doesn't impact games greatly, i wonder if a switch back for him could also reap dividends.

Tom Lynch: Lead up forward who is a good linkman up the wings and is pretty positive with the ball. The most established of this list (doesn't really fit the on the outer narrative of the rest) but not part of Adelaides next tilt so might be worth asking the question for all parties involved.

Sorry not an overly inspiring list but i do think some of them are worth considering and almost all should be relatively cheap.

[Happy Days]

It's at this point of the season that we can identify some players that are out of favour but could perform a role for us if recruited. Ideally this is the buy low portion of their career, and certainly i think many of these guys are worth giving a go over another year of Lynch/Hayes/Smith/Greene/Gowers etc. I generally think if a player isn't getting a game for a side, no matter how good the side is, that that is a big warning sign so I am not overly sold on many of these, but i do think there is some merit in looking into them.



Aliir Aliir: We need a good tall defender that can take the big guys and ideally isn't purely lockdown. Aliir is all that and is currently not getting picked in Sydneys side. Is he worth looking at for us?

Brayden Fiorini: We spent a lot of last year trying to create a hard running wingman out of Hayes and/or Smith but seem to have gone off that idea. Fiorini is that, is not getting picked in Gold Coasts side, and generally is good. Isn't quite the offensive threat that say an Isaac Smith is, but could be another Hunter type and really help link up our forwardline with the rest of the side.

Darcy McPherson: Kind of a more advanced Rhylee West type, big link to the Dogs, and not getting a look in at the now good Suns. Is a decent forward, can push up the flansk into a midfield type role, could be worth adding to the squad.

Ian Hill: Small indigenous forward who is a smooth mover and seems to be kind of the type we need imo. Only played the one game this year after getting a handful last year. GWS are pretty good judges, in that if a player isn't getting a game for them they usually aren't that good, so sceptical on this one but Hill certainly has attributes we could use.

Zac Langdon: Another small forward, gotten much more of a look in than Hill this season. Not sure he is quite the chaos forward i would like and could be more the Dale type. Two goals this year from 7 games is not very encouraging though.

Mitch Hannan: Seems to be in and out lately, and has the Dogs connection from his Footscray days. Again probably a bit much of a Lloyd type for me to be really keen, although is a better version of Gowers in that he is an aerial threat. Like Crozier and Howe before him is kind of a low possesion half forward who can take a speccy but doesn't impact games greatly, i wonder if a switch back for him could also reap dividends.

Tom Lynch: Lead up forward who is a good linkman up the wings and is pretty positive with the ball. The most established of this list (doesn't really fit the on the outer narrative of the rest) but not part of Adelaides next tilt so might be worth asking the question for all parties involved.

Sorry not an overly inspiring list but i do think some of them are worth considering and almost all should be relatively cheap.

It seems weird but my preference of that list, considering the cost of getting the players in and actual output in the AFL to date, is probably Langdon.

Allir is a nice looking player at full flight but his skills are aneurysm-enducing and I don't think I could handle it. Lynch is finished. Hill looked terrible and out of shape in his games in the AFL this year. Hannan is a similar type to Weightman rather than a true small forward and would piss us all off trying to sit on heads instead of waiting on the ground. Fiorini is a one-way player who we could accomodate but would detract further from our already shaky defence between the arcs. Macpherson is pretty much the opposite; a hard worker who is limited by skills, who I see more as a very poor man's Hunter rather than an advanced West, and as such wouldn't really add anything to our side.

Langdon would be a nice addition but I think we can dream bigger. There's still a slew of players out of contract in anticipation of a list size reduction that is still entirely rumoured and we could get in early on some clear best 22 guys.

[Axe Man]

Would come with a bit of baggage but is Jesse Hogan worth consideration as a key defender? I don’t know if he can play there or not but certainly has the talent and the asking price shouldn’t be high. Freo might even chip in some of his salary.

[azabob]

Would come with a bit of baggage but is Jesse Hogan worth consideration as a key defender? I don’t know if he can play there or not but certainly has the talent and the asking price shouldn’t be high. Freo might even chip in some of his salary.

Surely if he came across it would be as a key forward?

[Bumper Bulldogs]

1, Hard as nails big man. Someone like Mumford
2. Hard as nails mid. Someone like Selwood
3. Hard as nails forward with speed. Someone like Picken.
I recon we have enough talent and speed but lack that hard edge or a captain that will drag us over the line off the back of hard work.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

1, Hard as nails big man. Someone like Mumford
2. Hard as nails mid. Someone like Selwood
3. Hard as nails forward with speed. Someone like Picken.
I recon we have enough talent and speed but lack that hard edge or a captain that will drag us over the line off the back of hard work.
Yeah this is English’s biggest issue at the moment. He’s too passive almost to the point he avoids physical contact. He had a couple chances on the weekend to absolutely crunch some Melbourne defenders in a marking contest but barely touched them and allowed them to mark it. Same in ruck contests, he hates engaging contact.

[comrade]

I'd love to add an athletic ruckman in the mold of Rowan Marshall or Chol to the team, someone that can cover ground and be a genuine threat up forward.

[Grantysghost]

I'd love to add an athletic ruckman in the mold of Rowan Marshall or Chol to the team, someone that can cover ground and be a genuine threat up forward.
Rhys Stanley?

[comrade]

Rhys Stanley?

Yeah, someone that can team with English and split the ruck/around the ground duties in a similar way to how the Saints/Cats structure up.

[GVGjr]

Rhys Stanley?

He was in the same draft as Trengove and Roughead but is renowned for his training which seems to be something we regard highly
He's versatile and could provide English with some support in the short term

[Rocket Science]

With Hawthorn presumably going 'youthy' from here on in, might we kick the tyres on Gunston?

[GVGjr]

With Hawthorn presumably going 'youthy' from here on in, might we kick the tyres on Gunston?

He's been a wonderful player, how has he performed this year?

[comrade]

English as the only genuine ruck option is years away from working well, if ever and using Dunkley or Bruce isn't ideal. We're also unlikely to ever play English and ruck only type such as Sweet together.

Someone who can ruck and also provide a genuine forward option would be ideal.

[azabob]

English as the only genuine ruck option is years away from working well, if ever and using Dunkley or Bruce isn't ideal. We're also unlikely to ever play English and ruck only type such as Sweet together.

Someone who can ruck and also provide a genuine forward option would be ideal.

It’s mind boggling we haven’t tried Lewis Young in this role yet.

[comrade]

It’s mind boggling we haven’t tried Lewis Young in this role yet.

Yeah, I think it's at least worth a shot.

[Axe Man]

Surely if he came across it would be as a key forward?

We don’t need a key forward and there was talk of him going back for Freo which seems like a greater area of need for us.

[azabob]

We don’t need a key forward and there was talk of him going back for Freo which seems like a greater area of need for us.

I’d argue we do need another key forward to play along side Naughton ahead of a key defender.

[mjp]

After getting Bruce and Keath last year, we need to:

Triple down in the draft.
Get another ruck rookie.
Get a couple of indigenous kids on the list.

[The Doctor]

Get a couple of indigenous kids on the list.

Have you seen much of Isiah Winder?

[mjp]

Have you seen much of Isiah Winder?

We played Peel in round 1 and had a glorious after the siren win on a very dubious free kick...

He was pretty good that night but was very hands before feet which didn’t hurt as much as it could have...hard to gauge his improvement from year to year on one game and it has sort of turned out that I haven’t seen peel play apart from that (generally only scout 1x week ahead).

[Axe Man]

I’d argue we do need another key forward to play along side Naughton ahead of a key defender.

Like it or not we have Bruce and he's not going anywhere. Then of course there is Schache who may or may not be a KPF and is potential trade bait. JUH will also come on board at the end of the year. Adding another key forward into the mix would be crazy list management, especially if lists are cut.

[soupman]

Just random musings, with a fair dose of speculation thrown in, but did we miss a huge trick by not picking up Eddie Betts last year?

He would've been a huge positive three times.

1. We haven't had a forward like him that can create something out of nothing and do the impossible in a long time. He can kick clutch goals, he can manufacture goals, he is dangerous in traffic, he is so much of what we don't have at all. He is someone Weightman could learn off to take over from in two years. We are playing Cavarra in the hope he can fulfill this role, but Betts is good to go.

2. Does it sway Jack Martins decision? We were definitely in the race for Martin, and it has been super apparent in his performances this year that Martin is the real deal and something we (and everyone else) would love to have and are sorely lacking. I know this is speculative but if you can tell Martin he will be playing with Betts at the Bulldogs and that he and Eddie would be responsible for forming an indigenous program at the club that would welcome JUH just a year later i think our offer becomes a lot more tempting. I know this would probably mean we trade our pick and don't get Weightman but I am completely fine with that and would obviously do it right now if we could. Martin and Betts makes our forwardline genuinely good, instead of the cobbled together group it currently is.

3. As stated above we go from having basically no one indigenous at all to having probably the most identifiable and positive indigenous player from the entire leagues last 5+ years on our list and obviously put in a position where he would try to set up a better program so that we are well equipped to grow that area of the club, (obviously in this hypothetical Martin helps immensely with this).

I'm not saying we should have thought of it, because I certainly didn't until just this last week, and I'm not saying Betts isn't already right at the cliff, but man in hindsight this could have been a huge get for the club and would have cost stuff all. Instead we are left scratching our head still about how we build an indigenous program and where we are going to find a goal sneak forward.

Oh man and imagine a forwardline that reads:

Jack Martin, Aaron Naughton, Laitham Vandermeer
Mitch Wallis, Josh Bruce, Eddie Betts

So much more dynamic, quicker, exciting and threatening.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Just random musings, with a fair dose of speculation thrown in, but did we miss a huge trick by not picking up Eddie Betts last year?

He would've been a huge positive three times.

1. We haven't had a forward like him that can create something out of nothing and do the impossible in a long time. He can kick clutch goals, he can manufacture goals, he is dangerous in traffic, he is so much of what we don't have at all. He is someone Weightman could learn off to take over from in two years. We are playing Cavarra in the hope he can fulfill this role, but Betts is good to go.

2. Does it sway Jack Martins decision? We were definitely in the race for Martin, and it has been super apparent in his performances this year that Martin is the real deal and something we (and everyone else) would love to have and are sorely lacking. I know this is speculative but if you can tell Martin he will be playing with Betts at the Bulldogs and that he and Eddie would be responsible for forming an indigenous program at the club that would welcome JUH just a year later i think our offer becomes a lot more tempting. I know this would probably mean we trade our pick and don't get Weightman but I am completely fine with that and would obviously do it right now if we could. Martin and Betts makes our forwardline genuinely good, instead of the cobbled together group it currently is.

3. As stated above we go from having basically no one indigenous at all to having probably the most identifiable and positive indigenous player from the entire leagues last 5+ years on our list and obviously put in a position where he would try to set up a better program so that we are well equipped to grow that area of the club, (obviously in this hypothetical Martin helps immensely with this).

I'm not saying we should have thought of it, because I certainly didn't until just this last week, and I'm not saying Betts isn't already right at the cliff, but man in hindsight this could have been a huge get for the club and would have cost stuff all. Instead we are left scratching our head still about how we build an indigenous program and where we are going to find a goal sneak forward.

Oh man and imagine a forwardline that reads:

Jack Martin, Aaron Naughton, Laitham Vandermeer
Mitch Wallis, Josh Bruce, Eddie Betts

So much more dynamic, quicker, exciting and threatening.

Why? Just why? :(

Who knows how close we were to getting Martin but you'd hope we would have tried something like this.

[bornadog]

Just random musings, with a fair dose of speculation thrown in, but did we miss a huge trick by not picking up Eddie Betts last year?

He would've been a huge positive three times.

1. We haven't had a forward like him that can create something out of nothing and do the impossible in a long time. He can kick clutch goals, he can manufacture goals, he is dangerous in traffic, he is so much of what we don't have at all. He is someone Weightman could learn off to take over from in two years. We are playing Cavarra in the hope he can fulfill this role, but Betts is good to go.

2. Does it sway Jack Martins decision? We were definitely in the race for Martin, and it has been super apparent in his performances this year that Martin is the real deal and something we (and everyone else) would love to have and are sorely lacking. I know this is speculative but if you can tell Martin he will be playing with Betts at the Bulldogs and that he and Eddie would be responsible for forming an indigenous program at the club that would welcome JUH just a year later i think our offer becomes a lot more tempting. I know this would probably mean we trade our pick and don't get Weightman but I am completely fine with that and would obviously do it right now if we could. Martin and Betts makes our forwardline genuinely good, instead of the cobbled together group it currently is.

3. As stated above we go from having basically no one indigenous at all to having probably the most identifiable and positive indigenous player from the entire leagues last 5+ years on our list and obviously put in a position where he would try to set up a better program so that we are well equipped to grow that area of the club, (obviously in this hypothetical Martin helps immensely with this).

I'm not saying we should have thought of it, because I certainly didn't until just this last week, and I'm not saying Betts isn't already right at the cliff, but man in hindsight this could have been a huge get for the club and would have cost stuff all. Instead we are left scratching our head still about how we build an indigenous program and where we are going to find a goal sneak forward.

Oh man and imagine a forwardline that reads:

Jack Martin, Aaron Naughton, Laitham Vandermeer
Mitch Wallis, Josh Bruce, Eddie Betts

So much more dynamic, quicker, exciting and threatening.

I thought of the same thing when he was leaving Adelaide.

[Grantysghost]

I thought of the same thing when he was leaving Adelaide.

I thought he was cooked to be honest. Haven't seen a lot to change my mind and although I'd desperately love to have some indigenous players in our side I don't think we needed Eddie at his age nor should we recruit him for that reason. If that's what it took to get Martin then I'm not sure that's a good reason for him to come to us; I wish he had of though been a fan for a while.

[hujsh]

I guess the question is if the offer was there from both clubs what gets him to the Bulldogs over Carlton? I think it takes more years or money personally. Maybe I'm wrong and am overestimating the desire to return to the club he left though

[Dancin' Douggy]

I agree 5000% with everything you say here. (except Vandermeer in the forward pocket)

We would be set up for JUH to land, we'd be just better set up all round.
Maybe Eddie really wanted to go back to the blues?


Just random musings, with a fair dose of speculation thrown in, but did we miss a huge trick by not picking up Eddie Betts last year?

He would've been a huge positive three times.

1. We haven't had a forward like him that can create something out of nothing and do the impossible in a long time. He can kick clutch goals, he can manufacture goals, he is dangerous in traffic, he is so much of what we don't have at all. He is someone Weightman could learn off to take over from in two years. We are playing Cavarra in the hope he can fulfill this role, but Betts is good to go.

2. Does it sway Jack Martins decision? We were definitely in the race for Martin, and it has been super apparent in his performances this year that Martin is the real deal and something we (and everyone else) would love to have and are sorely lacking. I know this is speculative but if you can tell Martin he will be playing with Betts at the Bulldogs and that he and Eddie would be responsible for forming an indigenous program at the club that would welcome JUH just a year later i think our offer becomes a lot more tempting. I know this would probably mean we trade our pick and don't get Weightman but I am completely fine with that and would obviously do it right now if we could. Martin and Betts makes our forwardline genuinely good, instead of the cobbled together group it currently is.

3. As stated above we go from having basically no one indigenous at all to having probably the most identifiable and positive indigenous player from the entire leagues last 5+ years on our list and obviously put in a position where he would try to set up a better program so that we are well equipped to grow that area of the club, (obviously in this hypothetical Martin helps immensely with this).

I'm not saying we should have thought of it, because I certainly didn't until just this last week, and I'm not saying Betts isn't already right at the cliff, but man in hindsight this could have been a huge get for the club and would have cost stuff all. Instead we are left scratching our head still about how we build an indigenous program and where we are going to find a goal sneak forward.

Oh man and imagine a forwardline that reads:

Jack Martin, Aaron Naughton, Laitham Vandermeer
Mitch Wallis, Josh Bruce, Eddie Betts

So much more dynamic, quicker, exciting and threatening.

[bornadog]

I thought he was cooked to be honest. Haven't seen a lot to change my mind and although I'd desperately love to have some indigenous players in our side I don't think we needed Eddie at his age nor should we recruit him for that reason. If that's what it took to get Martin then I'm not sure that's a good reason for him to come to us; I wish he had of though been a fan for a while.

I was more thinking a playing forward coach, then stay on as as forward coach, plus help the indigenous programme.

[Grantysghost]

I was more thinking a playing forward coach, then stay on as as forward coach, plus help the indigenous programme.

I wonder if he'd be interested in a role like that with us post footy? That's not a bad idea.

[bornadog]

I wonder if he'd be interested in a role like that with us post footy? That's not a bad idea.

Apparently he wants to play on, but I don't think Carlton will sign him upo for another year.

[Bulldog Joe]

Recruiting a quality indigenous player as one of our coaches would be just what we need.

Betts and Burgoyne would be top of the list.

[DOG GOD]

Recruiting a quality indigenous player as one of our coaches would be just what we need.

Betts and Burgoyne would be top of the list.

I feel Burgoyne would have a very good football brain. He seems very level headed on the field and would be a massive win for our club to get a person like that on our coaching panel.

[The Doctor]

I think we missed a beat not going after Paddy Ryder last year.

[macca]

I think we missed a beat not going after Paddy Ryder last year.
Yep agree. Skilled ruckman , who can play forward and has 2 years left. He would be able to share ruckload and kick a few goals . Easier to talk in hindsight but I feel Ryder should have been a priorty above Bruce

A lot of Saints improvement have come from their 5 mature recruits
Butler was available , not sure what happened there if we even asked or were actually a contender

[GVGjr]

I think we missed a beat not going after Paddy Ryder last year.

I've been doing a bit of research between us and the Saints.
A couple of the differences are:
They have 4 indigenous players on their list
They brought in Ryder to support the emerging Marshall and they added Ryan Abbott from Geelong to support Ryder and Marshall

Our approach to the recruiting of ruck man would indicate we probably didn't consider Ryder

[Bulldog Joe]

I think we missed a beat not going after Paddy Ryder last year.

Absolutely agree.

Ryder is just what we needed to help now and transition JUH into the club.

[Remi Moses]

Might need a lockdown back
Especially as Trengove doesn’t get a look

[The Doctor]

Darcy Moore anyone? He's a RFA.

Most of us agree we could use a big key defender and he is one of the best. He will only be 25 next year. 203cm tall and in his prime. He has versatility in that he could also ruck and go forward (remember when he kicked 5 against us as a youngster?)

He won't come cheap. But Moore and Keath anchoring the defence would be formidable.

[Happy Days]

Darcy Moore anyone? He's a RFA.

Most of us agree we could use a big key defender and he is one of the best. He will only be 25 next year. 203cm tall and in his prime. He has versatility in that he could also ruck and go forward (remember when he kicked 5 against us as a youngster?)

He won't come cheap. But Moore and Keath anchoring the defence would be formidable.

He has an agreement in principle in place to re-sign with Collingwood. No chance unfortunately.

[The Doctor]

He has an agreement in principle in place to re-sign with Collingwood. No chance unfortunately.

They have a few big names still to contract so someone is bound to slip through. But if that is the case what about Rance?

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-2020-alex-rance-return-retirement-richmond-status-comeback-will-he-play-footy-again-religion-worklife-balance/news-story/2028e983bdc39fbebcdc35322be30c3c

[azabob]

They have a few big names still to contract so someone is bound to slip through. But if that is the case what about Rance?

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-2020-alex-rance-return-retirement-richmond-status-comeback-will-he-play-footy-again-religion-worklife-balance/news-story/2028e983bdc39fbebcdc35322be30c3c

I'd welcome Toby Greene before I'd welcome Alex Rance.

Alex Rance and Jake Carlisle are the two players I could not get behind welcoming to the Bulldogs.

[GVGjr]

They have a few big names still to contract so someone is bound to slip through. But if that is the case what about Rance?

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-2020-alex-rance-return-retirement-richmond-status-comeback-will-he-play-footy-again-religion-worklife-balance/news-story/2028e983bdc39fbebcdc35322be30c3c

He's still on the Tigers list so I would imagine they would be keen to have him back

Seems like a long shot but it's the season for that

[bornadog]

He's still on the Tigers list so I would imagine they would be keen to have him back

Seems like a long shot but it's the season for that

We don't need an Alex Rance

[Happy Days]

They have a few big names still to contract so someone is bound to slip through. But if that is the case what about Rance?

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-2020-alex-rance-return-retirement-richmond-status-comeback-will-he-play-footy-again-religion-worklife-balance/news-story/2028e983bdc39fbebcdc35322be30c3c

I haven't forgiven him for pulling out of The Bachelor. No thanks.

[Grantysghost]

Not sure if mentioned but Hartigan possibly being shopped around. Pass from me I think, he really is slow but others have suggested we need someone of his stature.
Keath may be able to give the club some insight if we were interested.
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2020/08/25/victorian-clubs-expressing-interest-in-free-agent-crow/

[Happy Days]

Not sure if mentioned but Hartigan possibly being shopped around. Pass from me I think, he really is slow but others have suggested we need someone of his stature.
Keath may be able to give the club some insight if we were interested.
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2020/08/25/victorian-clubs-expressing-interest-in-free-agent-crow/

Pretty sure Hartigan is still where Jakey boy buried him in 2015 on the forward flank at Marvel. We can just go get him any time we want.

[Grantysghost]

Pretty sure Hartigan is still where Jakey boy buried him in 2015 on the forward flank at Marvel. We can just go get him any time we want.

Classic.

[ratsmac]

What about Daniel Talia? Don't know if he is gettable or not but he's 28 years old and he is a good defender for the gorillas. Naughton just towelled him up but we can't hold that against him, Naughts is a freak. Although I'm not sure if Bevo would be on board considering Talia gate and all.

[AshMac]

I feel Burgoyne would have a very good football brain. He seems very level headed on the field and would be a massive win for our club to get a person like that on our coaching panel.

Agree completely - I’d love him to come join our coaching staff as a defensive coach or player development coach. If he is the start of an indigenous program too he’d be an amazing get.

[Topdog]

Solomon is getting quite a bit of praise after being sacked by GC, should we be interested?

[Grantysghost]

What about Daniel Talia? Don't know if he is gettable or not but he's 28 years old and he is a good defender for the gorillas. Naughton just towelled him up but we can't hold that against him, Naughts is a freak. Although I'm not sure if Bevo would be on board considering Talia gate and all.

Only if he can find his brother's phone. Think that might be a bridge too far, there's still some animosity there.
Purely on talent yes please.

[Grantysghost]

Solomon is getting quite a bit of praise after being sacked by GC, should we be interested?

I think so. He is highly regarded.

[Mofra]

What about Daniel Talia? Don't know if he is gettable or not but he's 28 years old and he is a good defender for the gorillas. Naughton just towelled him up but we can't hold that against him, Naughts is a freak. Although I'm not sure if Bevo would be on board considering Talia gate and all.
I don't think he could be less of a Beveridge player if he tried. Pure stopper.

[Axe Man]

Issac Smith is being mentioned again:


HAWK ISAAC’S BIG DECISION (https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/moneyball-is-alex-rance-happy-in-retirement-what-north-would-do-to-offload-jared-polec-what-next-for-hawks-shaun-burgoyne-isaac-smith/news-story/f16404f05ca15e1e7e1caa6951f3d829)
Triple premiership Hawk Isaac Smith has a decision to make on his future in the coming weeks as he heads towards the end of his current deal with the club.

But his currency has certainly dropped since last year, meaning the Hawks would receive a later pick if he did decide to finish his career elsewhere.

A year ago the Western Bulldogs made a big play for Smith, but it remains to be seen whether the unrestricted free agent‘s modest form across this abbreviated 2020 season would stop rival clubs from chasing him or whether he locks into another deal with the Hawks.

Smith turns 32 in December and had been in contract discussions with Hawthorn earlier this year before the pandemic put so many things on hold.

He has played 10 games this season, but missed last week‘s clash with Port Adelaide with a shoulder injury.

Would cost nothing but is old and form hasn't been great this year. Could offer more than Suckling though?

[Grantysghost]

Personally can't see the point of taking on a guy at that age.

[bornadog]

Issac Smith is being mentioned again:



Would cost nothing but is old and form hasn't been great this year. Could offer more than Suckling though?

No thanks

Has been a good player, but he is now a hasbeen

[bulldogsthru&thru]

No thanks

Has been a good player, but he is now a hasbeen

Especially if list sizes are cut, he's not worth it.

[1eyedog]

Isaac Smith had his chance. He probably would have gotten a two year deal had he come over but may find himself delisted or be forced into retirement. I think he did us a favour.

Talia would be behind Trengove because at least JT can ruck.

[Rocket Science]

Disinclined to take on Smith given Vandermeer's progress.

If the Hawks are shedding veterans though let's offer them Schache + swap of picks if need be for Gunston.

Imagine the latter roaming high in the role we wish Schache could nail down but also being able to play deeper.

[comrade]

Disinclined to take on Smith given Vandermeer's progress.

If the Hawks are shedding veterans though let's offer them Schache + swap of picks if need be for Gunston.

Imagine the latter roaming high in the role we wish Schache could nail down but also being able to play deeper.

Gunston or Breust both have something to offer us.

I'm also interested in the idea of offering Burgoyne a role similar to the one Hodge took on at Brisbane.

[Axe Man]

Gunston or Breust both have something to offer us.

I'm also interested in the idea of offering Burgoyne a role similar to the one Hodge took on at Brisbane.

A playing role? He does seem keen to play on at this stage. Where would he fit in?

[comrade]

A playing role? He does seem keen to play on at this stage. Where would he fit in?

He'd offer more than Lipinski or McLean, IMO. And worst case scenario he does fall off a cliff, he'd lead the kids at Footscray and would be a mentor for Marra.

[The Pie Man]

If it's outside run your looking for, if you can get North to stump up part of his contract, I'd look at Polec.

Not at full price

[comrade]

If it's outside run your looking for, if you can get North to stump up part of his contract, I'd look at Polec.

Not at full price

I couldn't do it. Just a team second type that will frustrate more than excite.

[Axe Man]

I couldn't do it. Just a team second type that will frustrate more than excite.

Yep, apparently was dropped after the Carlton game, despite being one of the best, because he was asked to pick up Cripps and basically didn't bother.

[comrade]

Yep, apparently was dropped after the Carlton game, despite being one of the best, because he was asked to pick up Cripps and basically didn't bother.

I'm not sure why the coach would pick Polec to man Cripps rather than utilise his outside running to its fullest, but he obviously wanted him to do a job and he failed. If we're gunning for outside run, I'd be going all in on Williams.

[GVGjr]

Issac Smith is being mentioned again:
Would cost nothing but is old and form hasn't been great this year. Could offer more than Suckling though?

Perhaps a year late. He still has a bit to offer but he should have pushed for a move last year

With a reduction in list sizes a possible outcome it's going to make it hard for some players.
He's been a very durable player and I don't think he has lost much of his dash either but you never know

[Danjul]

Disinclined to take on Smith given Vandermeer's progress.

If the Hawks are shedding veterans though let's offer them Schache + swap of picks if need be for Gunston.

Imagine the latter roaming high in the role we wish Schache could nail down but also being able to play deeper.

Don’t understand everyone’s haste in wanting to get rid of Schache.

Bruce has come in and played 1 decent game. Apart from that he has made the forward line dysfunctional. Take out the good game and he hardly gets a kick.

Yet because he touched the ball in the ruck against Melbourne we overlook the problems.

Schache can have some bad games but his performances with us have eclipsed Bruce.

[GVGjr]

Don’t understand everyone’s haste in wanting to get rid of Schache.

Bruce has come in and played 1 decent game. Apart from that he has made the forward line dysfunctional. Take out the good game and he hardly gets a kick.

Yet because he touched the ball in the ruck against Melbourne we overlook the problems.

Schache can have some bad games but his performances with us have eclipsed Bruce.

Same here, he still has plenty to offer

[Rocket Science]

Don’t understand everyone’s haste in wanting to get rid of Schache.


Same here, he still has plenty to offer

I don't doubt there's still plenty to work with there but being pragmatic, where does he fit once Ugle-Hagan's in the fold?

In the Gunston example I mentioned, he'd also be a logical target of interest from the other side.

Imagine the instant impact of 2-3 years of Gunston for a bloke who presently can't get a game.

[Danjul]

I don't doubt there's still plenty to work with there but being pragmatic, where does he fit once Ugle-Hagan's in the fold?

In the Gunston example I mentioned, he'd also be a logical target of interest from the other side.

Imagine the instant impact of 2-3 years of Gunston for a bloke who presently can't get a game.

This is the important part.

Schache is a proven performer with the Dogs. He had 13 games last year and kicked goals in 10. Multiple goals 7 times.

He was pretty close to being our most consistent forward. Last year he was getting goals at the same rate Wallis is this year.

Schache should be playing, purely based on what I have seen.

To save people from looking it up...

Wallis has had 13 games this year and kicked goals in 10. Multiple goals 5 times

[josie]

Agree with sentiments Schache should be playing more games. One of the few who is a good kick for goal.

[jeemak]

Didn't Schache get a chance, then didn't bother showing up one day, and has been injured since and is just coming back?

I like him but you can't play him if he's injured.

[Rocket Science]

This is the important part.

Schache is a proven performer with the Dogs. He had 13 games last year and kicked goals in 10. Multiple goals 7 times.

He was pretty close to being our most consistent forward. Last year he was getting goals at the same rate Wallis is this year.

Schache should be playing, purely based on what I have seen.

To save people from looking it up...

Wallis has had 13 games this year and kicked goals in 10. Multiple goals 5 times

That may be but it's clear 'goal rate' isn't the sole measure of Schache's progress in the eyes of the match committee.

Regardless, I'm as willing as anyone to query the logic driving selection decisions but the question remains - is there room for Schache in a forward line that includes Naughton, Bruce & Ugle-Hagan?

If not, how else can we utilise him short of using him as a trading chip to make our team, y'know, better?

[AshMac]

This is the important part.

Schache is a proven performer with the Dogs. He had 13 games last year and kicked goals in 10. Multiple goals 7 times.

He was pretty close to being our most consistent forward. Last year he was getting goals at the same rate Wallis is this year.

Schache should be playing, purely based on what I have seen.

To save people from looking it up...

Wallis has had 13 games this year and kicked goals in 10. Multiple goals 5 times

Disagree with any comparison between Schache and Wallis.

8 of Schaches 13 H&A games last year were after the bye, second half of the season where we hit our straps and the majority of his multi goal hauls were in a winning side. The game against Collingwood last year he was fantastic, but outside that he was an ok player in a team in great form.

He has oodles of natural ability, and still has potential if he can address his flaws - but to date he is the epitome of a downhill skier.

Wally on the other hand has emerged this year as a natural leader and on field role model. His hardness, work rate and results have been outstanding - he has stood up multiple times against better opposition and provides more than scoreboard pressure.

I know the conversation isn’t Wally or shack - but the comparison around their impact/output doesn’’t stack up. Now against Bruce.... another matter - but also different type of player.

I’m not suggesting we move schache on, but I’m not surprised he isnt playing based on what I’ve seen him contribute of late.

[azabob]

That may be but it's clear 'goal rate' isn't the sole measure of Schache's progress in the eyes of the match committee.

Regardless, I'm as willing as anyone to query the logic driving selection decisions but the question remains - is there room for Schache in a forward line that includes Naughton, Bruce & Ugle-Hagan?

If not, how else can we utilise him short of using him as a trading chip to make our team, y'know, better?

Can we put the expectations on Ugle-Hagan back into neutral? I think we are jumping the gun thinking he is suddenly best 22.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

This is the important part.

Schache is a proven performer with the Dogs. He had 13 games last year and kicked goals in 10. Multiple goals 7 times.

He was pretty close to being our most consistent forward. Last year he was getting goals at the same rate Wallis is this year.

Schache should be playing, purely based on what I have seen.

To save people from looking it up...

Wallis has had 13 games this year and kicked goals in 10. Multiple goals 5 times

You make it sound as if its inexplicable as to why Schache is not being played.
We know that at his best he adds important dimensions to our game. However consistency eludes him, and thats the problem. When he's not on he is woeful and is an offensive and defensive liability.

I'm sure we would live to have him in our 22, but on our terms, not his, when he feels like it.
I dare say that if he hadn't been injured of late, and had some solid track record, he'd have pushed Bruce for a spot in the past month.

Its up to Schache to fulfill his potential, not for us to just play him because ladt year he played some good games.

[wb_age]

Schache would do no worse than Bruce and that’s setting the bar extremely low on the back of Bruce’s output for the past month.

I don’t understand how Bruce has such a green light yet Schache is on such a tight rope.

Feels like it’s a pride thing regarding his recruitment, salary and contract. But on the other hand it’s not applied to Trengrove. So who the hell knows what’s happening with match selection

[Danjul]

Disagree with any comparison between Schache and Wallis.

8 of Schaches 13 H&A games last year were after the bye, second half of the season where we hit our straps and the majority of his multi goal hauls were in a winning side. The game against Collingwood last year he was fantastic, but outside that he was an ok player in a team in great form.

He has oodles of natural ability, and still has potential if he can address his flaws - but to date he is the epitome of a downhill skier.

Wally on the other hand has emerged this year as a natural leader and on field role model. His hardness, work rate and results have been outstanding - he has stood up multiple times against better opposition and provides more than scoreboard pressure.

I know the conversation isn’t Wally or shack - but the comparison around their impact/output doesn’’t stack up. Now against Bruce.... another matter - but also different type of player.

I’m not suggesting we move schache on, but I’m not surprised he isnt playing based on what I’ve seen him contribute of late.

I think you sell him short. The following week he kicked 3 goals in the wet against Port, in my opinion he was one of the best on ground generating an unexpected win. He certainly was not a passenger.

The simple fact of the matter is when he plays we usually win. He also got goals against Brisbane, I think the team lost that game.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Schache would do no worse than Bruce and that’s setting the bar extremely low on the back of Bruce’s output for the past month.

I don’t understand how Bruce has such a green light yet Schache is on such a tight rope.

Feels like it’s a pride thing regarding his recruitment, salary and contract. But on the other hand it’s not applied to Trengrove. So who the hell knows what’s happening with match selection

It depends on what factors or match attributes are considered salient by the coaching team. Also, as I think MJP might've said ( apologies if it was someone else), Schache isn't vying for Bruce's position, but more likely the role Wallis is performing.
That's not denying that Bruce's form would not be a concern, but if he and Schache aren't competing for the same spot it just means comparing the two is irrelevant.

No one is denying Schache's ability, more his ability to lift the difference between his best and worst games.
When he's bad, he is a complete passenger.

[Danjul]

It depends on what factors or match attributes are considered salient by the coaching team. Also, as I think MJP might've said ( apologies if it was someone else), Schache isn't vying for Bruce's position, but more likely the role Wallis is performing.
That's not denying that Bruce's form would not be a concern, but if he and Schache aren't competing for the same spot it just means comparing the two is irrelevant.

No one is denying Schache's ability, more his ability to lift the difference between his best and worst games.
When he's bad, he is a complete passenger.

In his last 8 games last year he was very good. His game against North this year was fine.

Then he was dragged and sat on the bench. (I think it was wet and the whole team struggled)

So 1 bad game in 10. Or am I watching games in a parallel universe?

His treatment is a stark contrast to some others in the team.

Bruce came in as a goal kicker. He has been goalless 6 times, and got one a few times. But he is not a passenger?

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

In his last 8 games last year he was very good. His game against North this year was fine.

Then he was dragged and sat on the bench. (I think it was wet and the whole team struggled)

So 1 bad game in 10. Or am I watching games in a parallel universe?

His treatment is a stark contrast to some others in the team.

Bruce came in as a goal kicker. He has been goalless 6 times, and got one a few times. But he is not a passenger?

You are cherry picking, and also adding a bit of mayo on top. His performances as a group last year were better than what he's delivered in any other given stretch of time with us. But not 'very good'.
Scroll down to his stats. https://afltables.com/afl/stats/players/J/Josh_Schache.html

We were also performing, as a team very well during the stretch last year, with multiple goalscoring threats. I'm not saying he didn't contribute, but let's not gild the lily and pretend his form was eye-poppingly good.

Again, forget Bruce. He (Schache) can't play or hasn't shown to date he can play the role expected of Bruce. He isn't competing with him.
And therefore it's a bit intellectually dishonest to conflate Schache's exclusion as unfair in light of Bruce's poor performance.

Also, he wasn't just bad in our loss to Carlton, he was putrid, and rightly dragged because he was giving us nothing offensively, and a witches hat for Carlton to manoeuvre around coming back out.
Subsequent to that, he's been concussed and has had to work his way back.

Now if Wallis was not performing, and Schache was showing some solid work in training on the deficiencies that saw him dropped, then that would be an appropriate time to cry foul about his non-inclusion.

[Topdog]

Again, forget Bruce. He (Schache) can't play or hasn't shown to date he can play the role expected of Bruce. He isn't competing with him.
And therefore it's a bit intellectually dishonest to conflate Schache's exclusion as unfair in light of Bruce's poor performance.

Also, he wasn't just bad in our loss to Carlton, he was putrid, and rightly dragged because he was giving us nothing offensively, and a witches hat for Carlton to manoeuvre around coming back out.
Subsequent to that, he's been concussed and has had to work his way back.

Now if Wallis was not performing, and Schache was showing some solid work in training on the deficiencies that saw him dropped, then that would be an appropriate time to cry foul about his non-inclusion.

Fully agree that Schache isnt competing with Bruce for a spot but he also isnt competing with Mitch Wallis who is basically playing as a stay at home FF.

RE: The Carlton game, its funny, Schache was putrid in that game but when we talk about witches hats Josh was off the ground when we conceded 6 goals in the last qtr.

For me he is competing for the Dale/Lloyd spot.

[jeemak]

Fully agree that Schache isnt competing with Bruce for a spot but he also isnt competing with Mitch Wallis who is basically playing as a stay at home FF.

RE: The Carlton game, its funny, Schache was putrid in that game but when we talk about witches hats Josh was off the ground when we conceded 6 goals in the last qtr.

For me he is competing for the Dale/Lloyd spot.

Who has that spot at the moment with both out of the team, are suggesting that role is an either/ or role between it and the crumbing role?

[Danjul]

You are cherry picking, and also adding a bit of mayo on top. His performances as a group last year were better than what he's delivered in any other given stretch of time with us. But not 'very good'.
Scroll down to his stats. https://afltables.com/afl/stats/players/J/Josh_Schache.html

We were also performing, as a team very well during the stretch last year, with multiple goalscoring threats. I'm not saying he didn't contribute, but let's not gild the lily and pretend his form was eye-poppingly good.

Again, forget Bruce. He (Schache) can't play or hasn't shown to date he can play the role expected of Bruce. He isn't competing with him.
And therefore it's a bit intellectually dishonest to conflate Schache's exclusion as unfair in light of Bruce's poor performance.
.

I am not saying hSchache had a good game against Carlton. He didn’t. But he wasn’t the sole reason the team was so poor. But he has carried more than his fair share of blame.

I am saying his previous 10 were better than Ok. And the one earlier against Hawks was a match winning four goals. I am suggesting that no other player who has contributed goals as he did last year has been described as not ‘very good “. Last year he contributed goals at a significantly greater rate than Dickson. In the games Schache played Lloyd got the same number of goals. That puts him in good company. None of the others get dismissed as simply passengers in a good team.

I am saying that in the Carlton game Bruce also played badly. I am saying in 9 games Bruce has played badly. 6 goals in 9 games I think.

In his first two games last year Gardner averaged 6 possessions and 1 goal a game. Take out Bruce’s Best game and that’s about his standard. I see Bruce competing with Gardner - their histories with this club have been comparable. So what role does Bruce have that he is doing well enough to get selected so often. Frequently goalless so it’s obviously not full forward.

I don’t see Schache competing with Wallis. They have entirely different characteristics. Wallis has strength and is good close in against 1 or 2 opponents. Schache has mobility and is good beyond Wallis ‘ goal range. I see them complementing each other.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Fully agree that Schache isnt competing with Bruce for a spot but he also isnt competing with Mitch Wallis who is basically playing as a stay at home FF.

RE: The Carlton game, its funny, Schache was putrid in that game but when we talk about witches hats Josh was off the ground when we conceded 6 goals in the last qtr.

For me he is competing for the Dale/Lloyd spot.

The 6 goal last qtr,was a different story. We had to roll the dice tobpeg back their lead. That left us exposed to turnover,cwhich Carlton duly capitalised on.

[bornadog]

This thread is way off topic, but a good discussion.

[Danjul]

The 6 goal last qtr,was a different story. We had to roll the dice tobpeg back their lead. That left us exposed to turnover,cwhich Carlton duly capitalised on.

The bad is good and the frequently good are usually bad.

We pegged back their lead by minus six goals. Well that didn’t work too well. Actually it did more damage than Schache poor game because it wrecked the percentage. I would like to see the person responsible benched. If they got into the habit of selecting balanced teams they would not have to roll the dice.

We have lost 2 of the last 3 games against Carlton at the selection table. And the third was unnecessarily close. The first one last year was the worst team selection I have ever seen. No respect for the opposition and purely based on adoration of a game plan that has rarely succeeded in the past three years. But why not try it again?

we have a history of poor quarters, probably because the frantic game plan is unsustainable for 4 quarters. That’s why the good opposition can frequently put the cue in the rack before the final siren.

[Danjul]

This thread is way off topic, but a good discussion.
Sorry, but I get annoyed by the suggestion to trade Schache because he is a passenger.

[AshMac]

I think you sell him short. The following week he kicked 3 goals in the wet against Port, in my opinion he was one of the best on ground generating an unexpected win. He certainly was not a passenger.

The simple fact of the matter is when he plays we usually win. He also got goals against Brisbane, I think the team lost that game.

His game against Port was good - from memory he took a couple of good contested marks and scored on a very slippery day.

It’s a bit skewed to say when he plays we win, as the other angle is when we’re winning he plays - and more often when we are in form as a whole team he plays well.

The question really is do we persevere - I’d be happy to part with him for a decent trade but see upside if he can lift his intensity and physicality. Dickson being named puts him further back in the pecking order than I thought. Do we continue with a guy that clearly needs games to improve but we aren’t prepared to give them to him.

One thing I’m pondering is - has the junior level footy programs become so good that enough KPP’s enter the league with immediate impact - King brothers, Naughton etc. - and supporters have become too impatient with big guys and the constant media (social and traditional) abuse and expectation takes a toll before they realise potential.

[The Doctor]

Our footy dept could use some bolstering. I think Graeme Lowe leaving a couple of years back left a big hole. One of the best manager's ever could be on the market in Neil Balme. He has helped 3 clubs into 8 grand finals. There is no rival to that kind of record. We should at least be enquiring in my view;

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2020/08/26/key-richmond-figure-on-radar-of-other-clubs/

[ratsmac]

Our footy dept could use some bolstering. I think Graeme Lowe leaving a couple of years back left a big hole. One of the best manager's ever could be on the market in Neil Balme. He has helped 3 clubs into 8 grand finals. There is no rival to that kind of record. We should at least be enquiring in my view;

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2020/08/26/key-richmond-figure-on-radar-of-other-clubs/

100%

[Remi Moses]

Definitely on Neil Balme
Need To change up the assistant coaching as well
We’ve been saying that for yonks

[DOG GOD]

Would we have the balls to go after someone like Balme?
I highly doubt it.

[AutoFill]

Two Metre Peter Wright. Can’t crack a game behind King as a forward and Witts in the ruck. He can play, and god knows we need some ruck depth.

[Sedat]

Two Metre Peter Wright. Can’t crack a game behind King as a forward and Witts in the ruck. He can play, and god knows we need some ruck depth.
Can he actually ruck?

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Can he actually ruck?

He’s better than Dunkley

[Happy Days]

2MP sucks.

[Happy Days]

I was gonna say more but feel like that’s a good summation.

[azabob]

Other than Pruess is there a ruckman our there?

[azabob]

Off the top of my head, the main areas of concern, in no particular order are:

1. Speed
2. Small forwards (with natural goal sense and speed who can rove packs and apply pressure)
3. A big bodied full back who can take the opposition monster forwards
4. A ruckman who can work in tandem with Tim
5. Players with decent foot skills
6. Defensive mids

I've decided my biggest two areas of concern are a ruckman who can work in tandem with English and a Defensive mid.

I've always believed that you control the ball at the source the rest of the game can flow. i.e no need for a gorilla defender if your midfield is doing their job.

Established ruckman there are not too many out there and with state leagues not active it may be doubly hard to nab one. The second issue is I'm not sure if the club sees the ruck as an issue.

What I found interesting is most clubs seem to have 3+ ruckman on their list. Two recognised ruckman and then one developing.

Out of Contract: Stefan Martin, Toby Nankervis, Mason Cox

In Contract: Reily O'Brien, Braydon Preuss, Darcy Cameron, Sean Darcy

Of the list above three stand out.

1) Toby Nankervis - out of contract, been in and out of the tigers team this year and has shown some ability up forward

2) Reily O'Brien - A Victorian boy, Crows have a long road ahead and from the limited vision I have seen is a competitive animal. Has played less games than English but he is ready to be either the number 1 ruck or at worst a suitable understudy.

3) Sean Darcy - A Victorian boy, out of contract 2022 - so we would need to pay overs. Seems your more traditional ruckman which doesn't appear to be in Beveridge game style.

The biggest problem in trying to get another ruckman who is already in the system to commit to us, is obviously our lack of interest in playing an actual ruckman!!

In conclusion I have wasted half n hour researching other clubs ruckman putting this post together.

PS - we should be offering Toby Nankervis a 3 year contract.

[Hotdog60]

the ruck issue isn't a problem. We get JUH at the end of this year and Bevo has a ready made ruck who can go forward.:p

[comrade]

If we chase a ruck, it needs to be someone who can also go forward/around the ground and be a threat.

The Saints (Marshall/Ryder), WC (NicNat/Allen), Geelong (Stanley & whoever), Richmond (Soldo/Chol/Nank), Brisbane (Big O/Martin when uninjured) all have flexible combos that puts whatever we're trying with English and his rotating cast of merry men to shame.

I'd pay up HUGE for Rowan Marshall. He & English would be an incredible combination. Sam Draper is another one that I really like. Both rookie picks.

[azabob]

If we chase a ruck, it needs to be someone who can also go forward/around the ground and be a threat.

The Saints (Marshall/Ryder), WC (NicNat/Allen), Geelong (Stanley & whoever), Richmond (Sold/Chol/Nank), Brisbane (Big O/Martin when uninjured) all have flexible combos that puts whatever we're trying with English and his rotating cast of merry men to shame.

I don't disagree but that is also our biggest problem. English isn't ready to play this role as the leading man. I seriously hope we have targeted Nankervis and already have him in the bag.

[comrade]

I don't disagree but that is also our biggest problem. English isn't ready to play this role as the leading man. I seriously hope we have targeted Nankervis and already have him in the bag.

I can't see Bevo seeking out a first ruck only type, and while I rate Nankervis, he isn't going to give much anywhere else but in the ruck, and that's antithesis to the Beveridge method.

[azabob]

I can't see Bevo seeking out a first ruck only type, and while I rate Nankervis, he isn't going to give much anywhere else but in the ruck, and that's antithesis to the Beveridge method.

Again, you are right and I referenced that earlier. We are playing the long game for sure.