Always Right Match Committee - Round 17 Vs Hawthorn 2020

[Scraggers]

Welcome to the Always Right Match Committee Thread. The Match Committee threads has been named after long time WOOF member Always Right who tragically passed away in March 2018.


If you were on the Western Bulldogs match committee what changes would you make after our Round 16 match against West Coast for our Round 17, 2020 match against Hawthorn at Adelaide Oval on Sunday afternoon?

For those new to these threads, please give a brief explanation for your changes ... this would add a lot of value to the discussion.

[GVGjr]

Bump

[Testekill]

Ins: Cavarra (didn't deserve to be dropped a few weeks ago)
someone that can get more than five touches

Outs: Lloyd (he just can't even finish well anymore)
Richards (did basically nothing out there)

[bornadog]

I think ED comes out for Duryea. 5 touches for the night is not good enough. Hayes also was not effective with 9 touches and Roarke similar, although he did some nice things here and there and kicked a goal.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I think ED comes out for Duryea. 5 touches for the night is not good enough. Hayes also was not effective with 9 touches and Roarke similar, although he did some nice things here and there and kicked a goal.

Did they not together put time into Gaff? I thought I saw them onnhim at stages? Gaff was a non factor tonight

[The Bulldogs Bite]

There's still plenty to choose from.

Richards is due but has been fortunate for many weeks, Hayes and Roarke candidates.

For me, Lloyd isn't someone I want to see feature too often. I'd rather Dale or Cavarra, or West. Lloyd no longer finishes, but he still makes poor decisions and is goal hungry.

I'd like to get some time into Duryea if possible.

[bornadog]

There's still plenty to choose from.

Richards is due but has been fortunate for many weeks, Hayes and Roarke candidates.

For me, Lloyd isn't someone I want to see feature too often. I'd rather Dale or Cavarra, or West. Lloyd no longer finishes, but he still makes poor decisions and is goal hungry.

I'd like to get some time into Duryea if possible.

Lloyds stupid snap around the body in the first was school boy error when he was dead in front.

[Bullies]

Out: R Smith, Hayes and Lloyd

In: Lapinski, Dale, Duryea

[josie]

Out Lloyd In Cavarra (or Greene)

I think that is the only change I would make.

Bruce clumsy as but he did at least bring ball to ground when WC were kicking down the line and doubt we gave anyone else they can do that and ruck kind of ok.

Not sure Bevo would risk it with Dureya as he might run out of puff but agree swap him for Richards or Roarke possible. Suckling possibly too injury prone & a bit slower now? He is another who might get a call up. We need experience & good kicking. He offers both (except for the occasional too cute kick).

[westbulldog]

Out LLoyd Richards Bruce
In Greene Suckling Le Young/Schache/Sweet

[Vred]

Out LLoyd Richards Bruce
In Greene Suckling Le Young/Schache/Sweet

I echo this minus Suckling, I'd swap Ed Richards for Duryea, and Bruce out for Le Young or Schache.

[MrMahatma]

Thought Bruce had an “almost” night. Took a few grabs, spilled a couple others, butchered it trying to create. I wouldn’t drop him (first match I’ve said that in a while!)

[comrade]

Out: Richards, Hayes, Lloyd
In: Suckling, Lipinski, Greene

I’m resigned to experienced players like Bruce and JJ getting picked regardless, though I’d be happy for them to both have a spell/run around in a scratchy.

We lose Richards’ pace but what’s the point of speed when you get it 5-10 times a game at most. It’s like he deliberately runs away from where the ball is going.

[Happy Days]

Did they not together put time into Gaff? I thought I saw them onnhim at stages? Gaff was a non factor tonight

McLean had a hard tag on him.

[Happy Days]

In: Lipinski, Suckling, Duryea

Out: Hayes, Smith, Gardner

Bruce saved by his start to the 4th after apparently having a key bump at 3QT. Respect to Roarke for hitting that goal but his 8 touches prior to it were all horrible.

[Bulldog4life]

Gardner has improved each game and should retain his spot.

[bornadog]

Thought Bruce had an “almost” night. Took a few grabs, spilled a couple others, butchered it trying to create. I wouldn’t drop him (first match I’ve said that in a while!)

I thought Bruce was pretty good last night, did all the things Bevo wants him to do, ie intimidating, creating goals, bringing the ball to ground, taking a few marks and just being a presence on the ground.

[Grantysghost]

Unchanged.

[1eyedog]

In: Duryea
Out: R Smith

[Grantysghost]

In: Duryea
Out: R Smith

Actually I like this better :cool:

[GVGjr]

Thought Bruce had an “almost” night. Took a few grabs, spilled a couple others, butchered it trying to create. I wouldn’t drop him (first match I’ve said that in a while!)

Another poor display especially his scarecrow efforts in the first quarter but it did look a bit more promising than previous weeks.
I can't give him too many credits for his 'effort' as appears to be the theme this week. That is the one thing he can control and given his form this year he should be going as hard as he can every week.
I can't recall any other player who has done as little as Bruce has for walk up starts each week

[comrade]

I can't recall any other player who has done as little as Bruce has for walk up starts each week

Sunk cost fallacy is a real thing.

[Grantysghost]

Sunk cost fallacy is a real thing.

Or the sunk cost fallacy fallacy.

[Happy Days]

Or the sunk cost fallacy fallacy.

Well now it's degenerated into something phallusy.

[bornadog]

Well now it's degenerated into something phallusy.

haha, very funny :D

[azabob]

I thought Bruce was pretty good last night, did all the things Bevo wants him to do, ie intimidating, creating goals, bringing the ball to ground, taking a few marks and just being a presence on the ground.

I think kicking goals would be at the top or 2nd top of Bevo's "want" list.

[Happy Days]

I'm eating the tape (read: watching the replay instead of doing any work) and Bruce, admitted probably worst on ground at quarter time for those goal chances he stuffed up, has won a couple of critical ground ball contests in the middle of the ground that both stopped Eagles streaming forward and put us into good positions to counter attack. And he obviously improved as the game went on.

He's got that Gardner thing going where if we didn't drop him after some of the other performances we can't really drop him after this one.

[comrade]

I'm eating the tape (read: watching the replay instead of doing any work) and Bruce, admitted probably worst on ground at quarter time for those goal chances he stuffed up, has won a couple of critical ground ball contests in the middle of the ground that both stopped Eagles streaming forward and put us into good positions to counter attack. And he obviously improved as the game went on.

He's got that Gardner thing going where if we didn't drop him after some of the other performances we can't really drop him after this one.

He's definitely not getting dropped and I'm happy to admit there were some green shoots in the 4th quarter. Can only hope he builds on that and finishes the season strong.

PS. You're clearly a masochist for watching the game a second time.

[Grantysghost]

Well now it's degenerated into something phallusy.

I can't compete with that.

[Happy Days]

He's definitely not getting dropped and I'm happy to admit there were some green shoots in the 4th quarter. Can only hope he builds on that and finishes the season strong.

PS. You're clearly a masochist for watching the game a second time.

If you pretend points are goals it's a shootout!

[Ozza]

I watched the last quarter again last night. Couldn't see myself watching the first three quarters again though!

Reality is, we snuck in against an eagles team without Hurn, NicNat, Yeo and Shuey. I'm fairly sure that is 4 all australians (or if they haven't all been, then certainly all AA calibre). Extremely fortunate to get them when we did, and that our poor conversion didn't cost us.

Bruce won't get dropped.

So I'd probably look at;

Lipinski in for Hayes - because Lippa is a better player.
West in for Lloyd. I just think we should be playing West, and Lloyd isn't setting the world on fire.

If Duyrea is ready to go, then I have no probs with him coming in for R.Smith. But good on Roarke for taking the chance and kicking that clutch goal. He does have some attributes Roarke....I don't think he has shown he is up to AFL level, but I can see why the coach wants to see.

[1eyedog]

What about Schache for Lloyd play him high or even on a wing?

[AshMac]

Out: Lloyd
In: West

Agree if Duryea ready him for Roarke smith, otherwise this week - and with 1st qtr aside - I saw effort and a lift in form across the ground and most deserve to retain IMO.

[GVGjr]

I watched the last quarter again last night. Couldn't see myself watching the first three quarters again though!

Reality is, we snuck in against an eagles team without Hurn, NicNat, Yeo and Shuey. I'm fairly sure that is 4 all australians (or if they haven't all been, then certainly all AA calibre). Extremely fortunate to get them when we did, and that our poor conversion didn't cost us.

Bruce won't get dropped.

So I'd probably look at;

Lipinski in for Hayes - because Lippa is a better player.
West in for Lloyd. I just think we should be playing West, and Lloyd isn't setting the world on fire.

If Duyrea is ready to go, then I have no probs with him coming in for R.Smith. But good on Roarke for taking the chance and kicking that clutch goal. He does have some attributes Roarke....I don't think he has shown he is up to AFL level, but I can see why the coach wants to see.

I re-watched the last quarter as well. It was an arm wrestle for sure.

I don't think West is right yet so it would be Suckling for Lloyd and Duryea for Smith. Do we stick with Hayes for another week?

Unfortunately I agree Bruce will be persevered with no matter what

[Axe Man]

I'm a little surprised by all the calls for Lloyd to be dropped. Apart from the brain fade set shot snap what did he do wrong in that game? I thought he was far from our worst. If he goes back and kicks a conventional set shot he probably ends up with 2 goals, he had 2 tackles inside 50, 6 score involvements and 4 inside 50s. I thought he did his job.

We need more natural forwards who can kick goals, not fewer. I certainly wouldn't want to see him replaced with West or Suckling who are not these things.

[bornadog]

I re-watched the last quarter as well. It was an arm wrestle for sure.

I don't think West is right yet so it would be Suckling for Lloyd and Duryea for Smith. Do we stick with Hayes for another week?

Unfortunately I agree Bruce will be persevered with no matter what

Are you happy with Richards 5 disposals?

[jeemak]

I watched the last quarter again last night. Couldn't see myself watching the first three quarters again though!

Reality is, we snuck in against an eagles team without Hurn, NicNat, Yeo and Shuey. I'm fairly sure that is 4 all australians (or if they haven't all been, then certainly all AA calibre). Extremely fortunate to get them when we did, and that our poor conversion didn't cost us.

Bruce won't get dropped.

So I'd probably look at;

Lipinski in for Hayes - because Lippa is a better player.
West in for Lloyd. I just think we should be playing West, and Lloyd isn't setting the world on fire.

If Duyrea is ready to go, then I have no probs with him coming in for R.Smith. But good on Roarke for taking the chance and kicking that clutch goal. He does have some attributes Roarke....I don't think he has shown he is up to AFL level, but I can see why the coach wants to see.

I don't even know whether I should be positive after that game given the players WC were missing! Stoked we won, but almost think we took a backwards step due to how sloppy we were forward of centre and that we kicked about 5,000 behinds.

Roarke was actually OK and would be stiff to lose his place, though I think we need to get some game time into both Suckling and Duryea if both are fit - but possibly not both at once. With that in mind I'd like to see:

In - Duryea, Suckling/ Lipinski
Out - Smith, Hayes

Bruce willed himself to an overall positive impact on the game in the end - just. He's been fortunate not to have been dropped thus far though I'm hopeful he can build on last night's performance.

[Scorlibo]

I'm a little surprised by all the calls for Lloyd to be dropped. Apart from the brain fade set shot snap what did he do wrong in that game? I thought he was far from our worst. If he goes back and kicks a conventional set shot he probably ends up with 2 goals, he had 2 tackles inside 50, 6 score involvements and 4 inside 50s. I thought he did his job.

We need more natural forwards who can kick goals, not fewer. I certainly wouldn't want to see him replaced with West or Suckling who are not these things.

Agree with you Axe Man. I'm not Lloyd's biggest fan but he does seem to know where the goals are - a rare trait in our forward line this year. Six score involvements is a significant contribution too (I think match-high was 8?)

Bruce improved over the course of the game to play a handy role in a few scoring chains, and clunk some good contested marks (albeit giving the ball back soon afterwards). In a terrible season for him I think we have to look on the bright side with this game.

Ordinarily I think the MC would look for a few changes after this game, but in the context of now being in the frame for finals if we win the next two, a more settled approach seems likely. One change for me -

Out: Hayes
In: Duryea

[GVGjr]

Are you happy with Richards 5 disposals?

Not at all, I've been asking the question of him a number of times this season. For some reason he's another of the 'hard to explain' players in our 22 each week. Perhaps he is trying hard
I think there should be 4 changes but we won the game so that is very unlikely.

[GVGjr]

I'm a little surprised by all the calls for Lloyd to be dropped. Apart from the brain fade set shot snap what did he do wrong in that game? I thought he was far from our worst. If he goes back and kicks a conventional set shot he probably ends up with 2 goals, he had 2 tackles inside 50, 6 score involvements and 4 inside 50s. I thought he did his job.

We need more natural forwards who can kick goals, not fewer. I certainly wouldn't want to see him replaced with West or Suckling who are not these things.

While you are probably right I just can't believe an experienced player didn't play the percentages and go back and take the set shot in the first quarter.
We will never set a standard if we are willing to accept that. Our goal kicking was woeful last night and had we lost the game by a couple of points I think there would be a stronger focus on the missed opportunities from players like Lloyd

[bornadog]

While you are probably right I just can't believe an experienced player didn't play the percentages and go back and take the set shot in the first quarter.
We will never set a standard if we are willing to accept that. Our goal kicking was woeful last night and had we lost the game by a couple of points I think there would be a stronger focus on the missed opportunities from players like Lloyd

I can't accept this round the corner business when you are dead in front.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I'd strongly consider Schache. We need somebody to lead up to the pill and create space. For all his flaws, the things he does well would be handy now because our forward half is pretty stagnant and struggles at opening up the ground. Realistically we don't need Lloyd when we have Wallis, Schache would be just as effective at a base level and has a much higher ceiling.

[Happy Days]

I'd strongly consider Schache. We need somebody to lead up to the pill and create space. For all his flaws, the things he does well would be handy now because our forward half is pretty stagnant and struggles at opening up the ground. Realistically we don't need Lloyd when we have Wallis, Schache would be just as effective at a base level and has a much higher ceiling.

Lloyd was far worse on the replay than he was in the initial viewing. I'd agree with this change but acknowledging we are playing a deadly game picking a guy known for a lack of intensity in what is essentially an elimination final.

[Axe Man]

Lloyd was far worse on the replay than he was in the initial viewing. I'd agree with this change but acknowledging we are playing a deadly game picking a guy known for a lack of intensity in what is essentially an elimination final.

Care to elaborate? Genuine question. I don't feel like subjecting myself to that game again so I'm interested in what you and anyone else think his shortcomings were last night (other than the obvious missed shot).

[Ozza]

Are you happy with Richards 5 disposals?

What I couldn't quite tell, was who Richards was playing on most of the time. Was Richards going around with Jetta, O'Neill or Ah Chee? None really had much of an impact (nor did Richards).

[1eyedog]

Agree with you Axe Man. I'm not Lloyd's biggest fan but he does seem to know where the goals are - a rare trait in our forward line this year. Six score involvements is a significant contribution too (I think match-high was 8?)

Bruce improved over the course of the game to play a handy role in a few scoring chains, and clunk some good contested marks (albeit giving the ball back soon afterwards). In a terrible season for him I think we have to look on the bright side with this game.

Ordinarily I think the MC would look for a few changes after this game, but in the context of now being in the frame for finals if we win the next two, a more settled approach seems likely. One change for me -

Out: Hayes
In: Duryea

What did Hayes do wrong? 9 touches 50% game time. Not sure why he was managed but if he's fit I doubt he will be dropped.

[Axe Man]

What did Hayes do wrong? 9 touches 50% game time. Not sure why he was managed but if he's fit I doubt he will be dropped.

The 'contest' on the wing where he completely missed the ball and it resulted in a Eagles goal comes to mind. He butchered quite a few of his early touches too. I get the feeling Bevo wasn't happy with his game hence the long sit on the pine. It's shame as I thought he was good against Geelong.

[jeemak]

What did Hayes do wrong? 9 touches 50% game time. Not sure why he was managed but if he's fit I doubt he will be dropped.

The glaring one for me was his pathetic attempt to force a contest on the JJ exit in the first quarter. They kept getting into JJ for not running hard on the telecast, but Hayes should have done better to impact the contest.

[Happy Days]

Care to elaborate? Genuine question. I don't feel like subjecting myself to that game again so I'm interested in what you and anyone else think his shortcomings were last night (other than the obvious missed shot).

He burned Wallis in the third quarter trying to kick a dribble goal from the pocket with a Eagles player in the goal square, got caught a few times taking too long to make decisions and was generally pretty poor. I’ve been one to defend him but he was too sloppy last night.

[Happy Days]

The glaring one for me was his pathetic attempt to force a contest on the JJ exit in the first quarter. They kept getting into JJ for not running hard on the telecast, but Hayes should have done better to impact the contest.

That got a run at TWO quarter breaks, seemingly as an excuse to pot JJ. Feels like there’s some unearned resentment out there for him sometimes.

[GVGjr]

The 'contest' on the wing where he completely missed the ball and it resulted in a Eagles goal comes to mind. He butchered quite a few of his early touches too. I get the feeling Bevo wasn't happy with his game hence the long sit on the pine. It's shame as I thought he was good against Geelong.

I get why that is right in peoples minds but does he get a little latitude on that because as they called it on the game, JJ should have run the ball out of backline instead of the long and high clearance.
The scarecrow mark attempt by Bruce that he completely missed in the first quarter was an equally frustrating incident

[Bulldog Joe]

What did Hayes do wrong? 9 touches 50% game time. Not sure why he was managed but if he's fit I doubt he will be dropped.

What I would question is why did he only have 50% game time.

They talked about the Eagles being down a rotation, but we have effectively only used Hayes for 25% more game time. If he was uninjured, he must have done something seriously amiss for it to be determined that we were better without him.

His only chance of being selected in the next match would require him to have had some problem that prevented him continuing and for him to recover from that problem.

[bornadog]

What I couldn't quite tell, was who Richards was playing on most of the time. Was Richards going around with Jetta, O'Neill or Ah Chee? None really had much of an impact (nor did Richards).

Not sure who he played on? For a wingman he needs to get more of the ball.

[Axe Man]

That got a run at TWO quarter breaks, seemingly as an excuse to pot JJ. Feels like there’s some unearned resentment out there for him sometimes.


I get why that is right in peoples minds but does he get a little latitude on that because as they called it on the game, JJ should have run the ball out of backline instead of the long and high clearance.
The scarecrow mark attempt by Bruce that he completely missed in the first quarter was an equally frustrating incident

I'm not sure the decision by JJ has any bearing on Hayes failing to impact that contest. He completely misread a ball he should have at least brought to ground. The one thing overlooked in that piece of play was that I'm fairly sure it was Liam Ryan on JJ's hammer. I think it was understandable that he was one Eagles player he probably shouldn't try and burn off.

[Mofra]

The 'contest' on the wing where he completely missed the ball and it resulted in a Eagles goal comes to mind. He butchered quite a few of his early touches too. I get the feeling Bevo wasn't happy with his game hence the long sit on the pine. It's shame as I thought he was good against Geelong.
Reminiscent of Schache's last game where he spent a lot of time on the pine.

[Ozza]

That got a run at TWO quarter breaks, seemingly as an excuse to pot JJ. Feels like there’s some unearned resentment out there for him sometimes.

Most of the time it is from bulldogs supporters...

On the coverage though - that was ridiculous to put up the graphic that he could have run another 15-20 metres - Liam Ryan was already within 6 or 7 metres and is quick so taking a bounce probably isn't an option, and it was deep in defence. JJ is fine to kick long in that situation, and at worst Hayes should have halved the contest.

Hayes finished with 3 effective disposals from his 9. Early in the game he kicked a very low percentage ball from outside 50 into the pocket when the option was to hook it to the top of the square as it was a repeat entry and West Coast weren't as 'set' as they were the previous entry.

[Mantis]

What I couldn't quite tell, was who Richards was playing on most of the time. Was Richards going around with Jetta, O'Neill or Ah Chee? None really had much of an impact (nor did Richards).

Richards has the rare trait of becoming invisible as you rarely notice him on the field for large parts of the contest.

How he has remained in the side for all games this year is a damn mystery.

[jeemak]

That got a run at TWO quarter breaks, seemingly as an excuse to pot JJ. Feels like there’s some unearned resentment out there for him sometimes.

Yeah I know, I chalked that up to it laziness on behalf of the broadcaster, but you may be right.

[DOG GOD]

For mine, as a winger, Hayes just doesn’t get it enough, or do enough. Yes, he’s a gut runner, so for mine, he’s either our defensive mid, where possessions aren’t that important, as long as he stops his opponent, or he doesn’t play at all.

[RoZDog]

I think he won 3 or 4 of his 9 possessions in the first 45 seconds of the game.

[The Pie Man]

Is it time to trial the 3 tall forwards and bring in Schache? He’s the best 2nd ruck option we have and can enjoy a bit more space at Adelaide Oval.

[kruder]

I disagree with Bevo's tactics of keeping a young player on the bench for a significant amount of time. How does that help development?

If he is not good enough don't play him the first place or else he has to continue to learn on the field surely.

[jeemak]

I disagree with Bevo's tactics of keeping a young player on the bench for a significant amount of time. How does that help development?

If he is not good enough don't play him the first place or else he has to continue to learn on the field surely.

Maybe he was told what to do, didn't do it at all, and then was instructed to watch how it was done.

Or maybe he was tight and he doesn't have the profile for it to be mentioned.

[kruder]

Maybe he was told what to do, didn't do it at all, and then was instructed to watch how it was done.

Or maybe he was tight and he doesn't have the profile for it to be mentioned.

Has worked well with Schache too.

[jeemak]

Has worked well with Schache too.

Yeah I don't know. If I was to guess it was because he was tight, but who knows.

[G-Mo77]

I disagree with Bevo's tactics of keeping a young player on the bench for a significant amount of time. How does that help development?

If he is not good enough don't play him the first place or else he has to continue to learn on the field surely.

This.

My guess is Hayes is done for the season like Schache before him. Hayes isn't a real fav amongst the supporters so this is not real worrying news for many. I'm not a fan of it. Benched for the entire last quarter was he? That is pretty ordinary. I hope there was something else to it and not a doghouse benching, it speaks pretty poorly if it is.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

This.

My guess is Hayes is done for the season like Schache before him. Hayes isn't a real fav amongst the supporters so this is not real worrying news for many. I'm not a fan of it. Benched for the entire last quarter was he? That is pretty ordinary. I hope there was something else to it and not a doghouse benching, it speaks pretty poorly if it is.

We don't know the reason for it.
Having said that, if he wasn't injured, then what would be the most likely explanation?
I did see Bevo on the bench giving instruction to Hayes, I think in the first half? Maybe Hayes didn't do what was instructed? At some stage as a coach you've got to set a standard.. and if a player refuses to follow instruction and that instruction could potentially jeopardise your game plan, well then take an extended seat young man.
I heard Dermie talk about Goodwin, saying he's a great bloke, but allows his charges to get away withour repercussions when they fail to adhere to non-negotiable team standards, and that he needs to 'risk losing the players' by getting ruthless on punishing any non-adherence to important standards.

Now I don't know if what Dermie said is true or not, but I do think there is something about enforcing non-negotiables..especially if failure to follow one, some or all, puts a result at risk.
Hayes may well have been injured too, although Bevo said post-game that we looked to have come through unscathed.

[bornadog]

I did see Bevo on the bench giving instruction to Hayes, I think in the first half.

It was just before 3/4 time

[jazzadogs]

I would be shocked if Suckling doesn't come in, given his scratch match write-up and Bevo's trust in him. Lipinski also got a bit of praise in the scratchie report (so did 'ball of muscle' Billy Gowers but I'm ignoring that).

I would be happy with something like:

In: Suckling, Lipinski, Schache
Out: Hayes or Roarke, Richards, Lloyd

Lipinski can take a wing, Suckling can enter the forward rotation and Schache can be the high-leading hit up connection that we have been missing.

[Grantysghost]

Now I've read the match report from the scratchie I've changed my selections :

In : Taylor Duryea, Patrick "DA BOM" Gowers.
Out : Smith, any mid.

*BOM - Ball of muscle.

Don't at me.

[1eyedog]

Schache would be an ideal in this week. What does the guy have to do?

[Rocket Science]

Schache would be an ideal in this week. What does the guy have to do?

Nobody knows but apparently it's *not* kick goals, so we won't be wanting any more of this business.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZlO5EI4frw&ab_channel=AFL

[bornadog]

Nobody knows but apparently it's *not* kick goals, so we won't be wanting any more of this business.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZlO5EI4frw&ab_channel=AFL

I mentioned this game in the West Coast MC thread. He kicked at least two of those goals whilst playing second ruck.

I think he is an ideal second ruck/Fwd

[josie]

I mentioned this game in the West Coast MC thread. He kicked at least two of those goals whilst playing second ruck.

I think he is an ideal second ruck/Fwd

Agree. Perhaps MC think it’s Bruce or Schache, but not both.

[Doc26]

I wouldn’t be structuring up with 3 developing / struggling key position forwards.

I’ve been patient with Josh Bruce but he has lost touch with the basics with even his handball lacking any precision or subtlety. Hopefully he can find some touch before the season ends but it in the meantime, and on merit, I’d prefer the MC provides Schache with an opportunity with Naughton.

[mjp]

I disagree with Bevo's tactics of keeping a young player on the bench for a significant amount of time. How does that help development?

If he is not good enough don't play him the first place or else he has to continue to learn on the field surely.

This is (of course) fair enough but it isn't a development league.

If it's the last quarter of a critical game in the context of the AFL season, surely the coach has the prerogative to make sure the 18 he has on the ground are the 18 he WANTS on the ground. Sometimes you simply lose trust in a player and whilst they are out there you get stressed out about it to the detriment of other more important things.

As long as he was part of a rotation earlier in the game (he was) then what else can he do? Basketball coaches always finish with their so-called 'closing line-up'...maybe last week Hayes wasn't part of that.

Surely this is allowed right??? Surely we trust the coach to develop relationships that can withstand stuff like this???

[kruder]

This is (of course) fair enough but it isn't a development league.

If it's the last quarter of a critical game in the context of the AFL season, surely the coach has the prerogative to make sure the 18 he has on the ground are the 18 he WANTS on the ground. Sometimes you simply lose trust in a player and whilst they are out there you get stressed out about it to the detriment of other more important things.

As long as he was part of a rotation earlier in the game (he was) then what else can he do? Basketball coaches always finish with their so-called 'closing line-up'...maybe last week Hayes wasn't part of that.

Surely this is allowed right??? Surely we trust the coach to develop relationships that can withstand stuff like this???

If its a critical game why play him in the first place if you don't trust him? What did Bevo learn about Hayes that he didn't know going into the game?

I'm not sure Josh has recovered from being sent back to the car with his mum to get warm before the game has ended. Poor coaching in my world.

[Before I Die]

If its a critical game why play him in the first place if you don't trust him? What did Bevo learn about Hayes that he didn't know going into the game?


It appears likely he learnt he couldn't trust him when the chips were down in this must win game. Or he may have learnt that he was tight and at too big a risk of injury if he stayed on the field. In either case these were things he didn't or couldn't know before the game. In our case we will likely never know if either of the above is true. What we do know is that whatever the reason, Bevo believed it gave the team the best chance of winning, perhaps at the expense of Hayes' development, perhaps not. Given the importance of the game and the fact that we did win, despite our goal kicking, I'm also fine with the decision.

[FrediKanoute]

If its a critical game why play him in the first place if you don't trust him? What did Bevo learn about Hayes that he didn't know going into the game?

I'm not sure Josh has recovered from being sent back to the car with his mum to get warm before the game has ended. Poor coaching in my world.

Poor coaching or poor recruitment? I didn't watch the Carlton game, but if a guy can't do what he is supposed to do the way the coach wants him to do it why should the coach continue to invest? Management of a team is about trust. Trusting the performance of players/team members. Josh/Will/Billy/Bailey/Sam/Suckers/Lippa have all been in and out of the team for a reason.

[Bulldog4life]

This is (of course) fair enough but it isn't a development league.

If it's the last quarter of a critical game in the context of the AFL season, surely the coach has the prerogative to make sure the 18 he has on the ground are the 18 he WANTS on the ground. Sometimes you simply lose trust in a player and whilst they are out there you get stressed out about it to the detriment of other more important things.

As long as he was part of a rotation earlier in the game (he was) then what else can he do? Basketball coaches always finish with their so-called 'closing line-up'...maybe last week Hayes wasn't part of that.

Surely this is allowed right??? Surely we trust the coach to develop relationships that can withstand stuff like this???

Agree totally. We are in the "big boys long pants" league. No time for hurt feelings or playing equal minutes for every player. Finals abound.

[MrMahatma]

If its a critical game why play him in the first place if you don't trust him? What did Bevo learn about Hayes that he didn't know going into the game?

I'm not sure Josh has recovered from being sent back to the car with his mum to get warm before the game has ended. Poor coaching in my world.

We won, didn’t we? We held out in the end. Seems the right guys were out there.

I’d personally much prefer to win than, maybe, develop Hayes a little teeny bit more. It’s the AFL. Results matter.

[bornadog]

If its a critical game why play him in the first place if you don't trust him? What did Bevo learn about Hayes that he didn't know going into the game?

I'm not sure Josh has recovered from being sent back to the car with his mum to get warm before the game has ended. Poor coaching in my world.

If he isnot playing well in the game, why should he go back on?

[Axe Man]

Ross Lyon on Footy Classified last night admitted to subbing a player that wasn't injured in the first half on several occasions. He once subbed Nick Suban out 10 minutes into the second quarter because he wasn't happy with him. Coaches gotta coach.

[comrade]

Yeah, I don't mind benching a bloke for the quarter if he's not up to it. Must feel like crap for the player though, but it's professional sport and winning is what it's all about.

[mjp]

If its a critical game why play him in the first place if you don't trust him? What did Bevo learn about Hayes that he didn't know going into the game?



I don't know what he learned. I thought Hayes played well the previous week BUT I don't know what he had been asked to do. Maybe what I saw is what kept him in the team "He did x" but the coach still had a "But he still isn't doing y" misgiving about it...

I 100% agree with your point about player confidence, but to the first line in my post - The AFL is not a development league. If he didn't want Hayes out there then he did the right thing!

[Grantysghost]

Is anyone surprised that we took away our rotation advantage though? Hayes or not aside, in a tight game I'm surprised we did that.

[Rocco Jones]

As seasons go on, Bevo/MC's unpredictable way become clearer. I am guessing...

In: Lipsinki, Suckers
Out: Hayes, Roarke

[mjp]

Is anyone surprised that we took away our rotation advantage though? Hayes or not aside, in a tight game I'm surprised we did that.

But it isn't a rotation advantage if one of the players is not playing to the plan...it is a rotation DISadvantage...

You all need to be pulling the same way in a tight game!

[Grantysghost]

But it isn't a rotation advantage if one of the players is not playing to the plan...it is a rotation DISadvantage...

You all need to be pulling the same way in a tight game!

Yeah fair point. You just hear so much about rotations and their importance, and the coaches were pretty vocal against capping them. I found it a little odd. To be honest I didn't even realise until I read it on here he wasnt playing it was too nerve racking.

[Axe Man]

Yeah fair point. You just hear so much about rotations and their importance, and the coaches were pretty vocal against capping them. I found it a little odd. To be honest I didn't even realise until I read it on here he wasnt playing it was too nerve racking.

I didn't notice Hayes wasn't playing in the same way I didn't notice Richards was playing.

[kruder]

We won, didn’t we? We held out in the end. Seems the right guys were out there.

I’d personally much prefer to win than, maybe, develop Hayes a little teeny bit more. It’s the AFL. Results matter.

Completely agree but we could have lost being down 1 rotation , we offered it up as an excuse against Geelong. I just wouldn’t play him in the first place, imagine if we had of lost that game question would have been asked. Near miss for mine no need to take the risk when the margins are that minimal.

[jeemak]

Yeah fair point. You just hear so much about rotations and their importance, and the coaches were pretty vocal against capping them. I found it a little odd. To be honest I didn't even realise until I read it on here he wasnt playing it was too nerve racking.

Ralph Wiggins......I'm pedalling backwards!

[jeemak]

Completely agree but we could have lost being down 1 rotation , we offered it up as an excuse against Geelong. I just wouldn’t play him in the first place, imagine if we had of lost that game question would have been asked. Near miss for mine no need to take the risk when the margins are that minimal.

How do you reconcile the fact that the coach was seriously instructing him prior to the last break? Was that view something that made you go, jeez, this guy is being maligned?

Bad coaches who don't care bench you and don't talk to you.

[bornadog]

Wood has been ruled out this week

[Axe Man]

Wood has been ruled out this week

Wood;) have been crazy to rush him back this week.

[comrade]

The defence did a rock solid job last week, no need to meddle with it.

Unless there is injury, I can't see how Wood slots back in tbh.

[bornadog]

Link here (https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/811064/wood-ruled-out-dogs-brace-for-hawk-challenge)


Western Bulldogs defender Easton Wood will not line up in Sunday's crucial game against Hawthorn.

Wood injured his hamstring against Geelong in round 14 and was a test for this week. However, the club will play it safe with the former skipper.


"He'll have another week off," Western Bulldogs coach Luke Beveridge said of Wood.


The Bulldogs will not be forced into any changes through injury this week, but Patrick Lipinski and Matt Suckling pushed their case for selection after strong performances in a scratch match against Gold Coast last week.


After St Kilda's loss to West Coast on Thursday night, the Bulldogs can seal a finals berth with wins in their last two games against the Hawks and Fremantle.


Drop one of those, however, and the calculations become far more complicated. The Dogs would be in a race with Collingwood, GWS, St Kilda, Melbourne and potentially even Carlton for the last three berths in the top eight.


The Dogs have one of the shortest injury lists in the competition, but Beveridge says that keeping list sizes relatively stable is one of the key parts the League needs to consider if they want to add more games to the fixture next season.


"If we're going to continue to explore more games and some condensed periods of the season then why don't we just go the whole hog and play 34 games?" Beveridge said.

[Mantis]

The defence did a rock solid job last week, no need to meddle with it.

Unless there is injury, I can't see how Wood slots back in tbh.

With 2 talls in defence (Keath & Gardner) it means that Cordy, Crozier and Williams are playing as the medium sized defenders so Wood will need to displace one of them to return.

I'm still not sold on Gardner, actually far from it, but allowing Cordy to play as the 3rd tall is a much better structure for us and gives Zaine half a chance to compete.

[comrade]

With 2 talls in defence (Keath & Gardner) it means that Cordy, Crozier and Williams are playing as the medium sized defenders so Wood will need to displace one of them to return.

I'm still not sold on Gardner, actually far from it, but allowing Cordy to play as the 3rd tall is a much better structure for us and gives Zaine half a chance to compete.

Definitely not sold on Gardner, but I've never been a fan of Cordy as a dedicated key defender.

Crozier and WIlliams are locks and have more strings to their bow than both Wood & Cordy, so I really only see Wood and Cordy fighting it out for that remaining mid/third defender role.

[Axe Man]

Definitely not sold on Gardner, but I've never been a fan of Cordy as a dedicated key defender.

Crozier and WIlliams are locks and have more strings to their bow than both Wood & Cordy, so I really only see Wood and Cordy fighting it out for that remaining mid/third defender role.

I agree although I think it's Gardner/Cordy/Wood fighting it out for 2 spots with matchups dictating the best mix.

[comrade]

I agree although I think it's Gardner/Cordy/Wood fighting it out for 2 spots with matchups dictating the best mix.

Yeah, I can live with that. Certainly don't think all 3 can co-exist. Too limited in skill and decision making under pressure.

[comrade]

Listening to Bevo's comments here (https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/video/811124/luke-beveridge-it-was-an-encouraging-win-for-us?videoId=811124&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1599800787001), he makes it clear Gardner is here to stay (calls him a diamond in the rough) and gives the internet trolls a bit of a nudge.

[Bullies]

Listening to Bevo's comments here (https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/video/811124/luke-beveridge-it-was-an-encouraging-win-for-us?videoId=811124&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1599800787001), he makes it clear Gardner is here to stay (calls him a diamond in the rough) and gives the internet trolls a bit of a nudge.
Gardner seems to be improving every week. Need to remember he is a tall so they take a bit longer and has played only around 10 games. Needs to put on a bit of bulk but he does move well and has good closing speed. Happy to give him a year in the gym and make a call at the end of next year. Can't see any reason he doesn't stay in the team for the rest of the year.

[jeemak]

Gardner seems to be improving every week. Need to remember he is a tall so they take a bit longer and has played only around 10 games. Needs to put on a bit of bulk but he does move well and has good closing speed. Happy to give him a year in the gym and make a call at the end of next year. Can't see any reason he doesn't stay in the team for the rest of the year.

Keep an open mind, he's a fair chance of giving you a reason with two games left plus hopefully finals. It's a tough gig learning to adapt to a level and there's always a chance of a set back.

I guess it's the trend that's important. For instance you might comment that Gowers' trend has tracked one way, while Gardner's is tracking differently.

[bornadog]

Gardner seems to be improving every week. Need to remember he is a tall so they take a bit longer and has played only around 10 games. Needs to put on a bit of bulk but he does move well and has good closing speed. Happy to give him a year in the gym and make a call at the end of next year. Can't see any reason he doesn't stay in the team for the rest of the year.

He does need some bulking up, as he doesn't look very strong. Must learn not to go to ground so easily

[GVGjr]

I really like the look of this team but Roarke Smith and Richards are a touch lucky

B: Zaine Cordy, Alex Keath, Caleb Daniel
HB: Bailey Williams, Ryan Gardner, Hayden Crozier
C: Bailey Smith, Jack Macrae, Jason Johannisen
HF: Toby McLean, Josh Bruce, Mitch Wallis
F: Tom Liberatore, Aaron Naughton, Lachie Hunter
Foll: Tim English, Marcus Bontempelli, Josh Dunkley
Int: Matthew Suckling, Taylor Duryea, Ed Richards, Roarke Smith
Emer: Sam Lloyd, Pat Lipinski, Lachie Young, Jordon Sweet

IN: Matthew Suckling, Taylor Duryea
OUT: Sam Lloyd, Will Hayes

[Vred]

I really like the look of this team but Roarke Smith and Richards are a touch lucky
B: Zaine Cordy, Alex Keath, Caleb Daniel
HB: Bailey Williams, Ryan Gardner, Hayden Crozier
C: Bailey Smith, Jack Macrae, Jason Johannisen
HF: Toby McLean, Josh Bruce, Mitch Wallis
F: Tom Liberatore, Aaron Naughton, Lachie Hunter
Foll: Tim English, Marcus Bontempelli, Josh Dunkley
Int: Matthew Suckling, Taylor Duryea, Ed Richards, Roarke Smith
Emer: Sam Lloyd, Pat Lipinski, Lachie Young, Jordon Sweet

IN: Matthew Suckling, Taylor Duryea
OUT: Sam Lloyd, Will Hayes

article makes zero mention on why Hayes was omitted, why do I get the feeling sitting him for half of last weeks game WAS punishment?

[GVGjr]

article makes zero mention on why Hayes was omitted, why do I get the feeling sitting him for half of last weeks game WAS punishment?

Yep, we lost a bit in the information flow this season but we probably have some good reasons
At the moment I think we just have to assume that it was an omission due to form not an injury

[The Underdog]

Keep an open mind, he's a fair chance of giving you a reason with two games left plus hopefully finals. It's a tough gig learning to adapt to a level and there's always a chance of a set back.

I guess it's the trend that's important. For instance you might comment that Gowers' trend has tracked one way, while Gardner's is tracking differently.

Let’s face it. Fletcher Roberts is a Bulldogs premiership player. No reason Ryan can’t be.

[Bulldog4life]

article makes zero mention on why Hayes was omitted, why do I get the feeling sitting him for half of last weeks game WAS punishment?

It was only the last quarter. I watched the last half today. Glutton for punishment I know.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Nice to add some more experience. It’s as strong as we have looked all year.

No excuses dogs let’s get it done

[Bulldog Joe]

Happy with the selected team.

Now need them to perform close to their best individually and as a team.

[kruder]

Would love to swap Smith for a forward, look one short in that line up.

[kruder]

Would love to swap Smith for a forward, look one short in that line up.

Wonder if we can get caleb a little further up the ground, plenty of flankers in that line up.

[Axe Man]

We’ve managed to name a side almost completely bereft of natural forwards. I know the form of Lloyd, Dickson, Schache, etc hasn’t exactly demanded selection but even our linchpins in Bruce, Naughton and Wallis didn’t start their careers as forwards.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

One of our best selected teams of the year.

Is Dale injured? I'd prefer him to Roarke and agree we look 1 forward short.

[whythelongface]

One of our best selected teams of the year.

Is Dale injured? I'd prefer him to Roarke and agree we look 1 forward short.

Agree with this. Dale certainly wasn’t setting the world on fire, hence his subsequent omission but he is the type that can kick a couple a game. I don’t believe he is injured.

[Bulldog4life]

Roarkey kicked the winning goal. Might have saved him.

[azabob]

Roarkey kicked the winning goal. Might have saved him.

Funnily enough Carlton dropped Cottral who kicked the winning goal for them.

[Bulldog4life]

Funnily enough Carlton dropped Cottral who kicked the winning goal for them.

Ok. Roarke wasn't the worse so I'm happy he retained his spot.

[merantau]

The team is good. I would really like to see a convincing performance where we get goals from clean entries and don't leak goals over the back. If we are going to do anything in September other than make up the numbers now is the time to signal that we are fair dinkum.

[comrade]

A touch nervous that we’re bringing in 2 older players without much/any game time behind them, we saw how destructive a couple of in game injuries were against Geelong.

Fingers crossed they get through unscathed.

Where does Duryea play? I’m assuming he goes back, so does that mean one of JJ/Daniel/Williams moves up the ground?

[Testekill]

How long can we keep carrying Richards? His pace is nice but he gets 5 touches a game and is a passenger after the first quarter.

[comrade]

How long can we keep carrying Richards? His pace is nice but he gets 5 touches a game and is a passenger after the first quarter.

Should have been given a spell weeks ago. What’s the point of speed if you use it to run away from where the ball is?

[G-Mo77]

How long can we keep carrying Richards? His pace is nice but he gets 5 touches a game and is a passenger after the first quarter.

Carrying quite a few more on top of that. Some seem to get way more time than others. I'd still have Dale as a starter but seems like he's joined the doghouse club with Shache and Lewis Young.

[GVGjr]

How long can we keep carrying Richards? His pace is nice but he gets 5 touches a game and is a passenger after the first quarter.

It's a concern that we keep playing players without a lot of solid play behind them. Richards hasn't had a a lot of good games this year but we have persevered with him. With a bit of luck today he repays the faith

[SquirrelGrip]

Richards hasn't had a a lot of good games this year but we have persevered with him. With a bit of luck today he repays the faith

Richards has played some good games at Adelaide Oval, so hopefully we see that today too.

[jeemak]

A touch nervous that we’re bringing in 2 older players without much/any game time behind them, we saw how destructive a couple of in game injuries were against Geelong.

Fingers crossed they get through unscathed.

Where does Duryea play? I’m assuming he goes back, so does that mean one of JJ/Daniel/Williams moves up the ground?

I've got a nervous feeling about this one. For some reason I think Clarkson is going to do everything he can to get them up for a good performance today given the byplay between he and Bevo in the media due to his influence over the HTB rule interpretation change mid year, and that we made them look silly in a quarter last year in a game that essentially kept them out of finals. Spiteful little shit that he is.

Plus as you say, bringing in two older players with dodgy injury history this year could spell trouble.

I think we'll roll four of seven through defence with only the taller players being constant pillars, unless one of the smaller types have a specific job. Hopefully we're not being too clever.