Why are people picking Melbourne to WIN?

[mjp]

Genuine question.

Apparently our win against Adelaide was against witches hats (this coming from Bulldogs supporters) - but Melbourne have won 3-in-a-row and that is highly meritorious.

Look at that for one second:

- Defeated Collingwood (4th game in 14 days + travel) without half their team and down two players - both key forwards - effectively in the first half.
- Defeated North.
- Defeated Adelaide.

The week before that, Port absolutely blitzed them by 10 goals.

Our efforts against Brisbane and Port were FAR, FAR (add a few more fars) impressive than what Melbourne dished up. All the commentary about us just 'getting the job done' and it being an 'average performance' against Adelaide are fine...but why are Melbourne being given so much credit for basically doing the same thing?

How about a little bit of faith guys and girls. We are going to win this weekend. Mark it down. Get on it. Whatever.

Back on the positive bus please. We have good players. We are a good side. What more did you want to see than Bont running riot and Naughton kicking goals? Surely having our best two players - both better than anyone on Melbourne's list - in cracking form will be enough to tip the balance in our favour?

[Mofra]

Natural Bulldog tendency for pessimism aside, opposition rucks can still get ahold of us (e.g. Grundy, McInerny). Melbourne are likely to play two rucks if Gawn gets up, and they are both better than a dodgy-ankle English (if he's right) or a combo of an untried Sweet + Dunkley. That's where the concern really lies.

Their midfield matches ours ok (now that Brayshaw is getting back to form) with ours batting one "good" mid deeper.

[bornadog]

I am with you MJP, I don't rate Melbourne at all. Our midfield is superior to their's and we will have a field day. Sure Oliver and Petraca have done well but against who? The Bont and Macrae racked up 70 disposals against Brisbane who have a very good midfield, and as you say who is going to stop Naughton.

Looking forward to this one.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I get what you're saying. I haven't exactly been rating Melbourne though. I think both clubs are fairly evenly poised this season. Saturday's game could go either way but whenever we play Melbourne they seem to drag us into their dour play. And I get the feeling we'll see the all too familiar bad quarter from us and that will be enough for them to pip us. I can't shake the thought of this being another 'Carlton' game for us. Who the hell knows though. Them having a "big" win against a "contender" might just work in our favour if they get ahead of themselves.

[Danjul]

Genuine question.

Apparently our win against Adelaide was against witches hats (this coming from Bulldogs supporters) - but Melbourne have won 3-in-a-row and that is highly meritorious.

Look at that for one second:

- Defeated Collingwood (4th game in 14 days + travel) without half their team and down two players - both key forwards - effectively in the first half.
- Defeated North.
- Defeated Adelaide.

The week before that, Port absolutely blitzed them by 10 goals.

Our efforts against Brisbane and Port were FAR, FAR (add a few more fars) impressive than what Melbourne dished up. All the commentary about us just 'getting the job done' and it being an 'average performance' against Adelaide are fine...but why are Melbourne being given so much credit for basically doing the same thing?

How about a little bit of faith guys and girls. We are going to win this weekend. Mark it down. Get on it. Whatever.

Back on the positive bus please. We have good players. We are a good side. What more did you want to see than Bont running riot and Naughton kicking goals? Surely having our best two players - both better than anyone on Melbourne's list - in cracking form will be enough to tip the balance in our favour?
This is a sign of the malaise the Dogs are in.

Over the last 50 games we have proven that any team can beat us. (Who can forget the Carlton game last year and they crushed us again this season). Last year we beat Brisbane and Port and Richmond. This month they have all made up for that.

The reality is we have no confidence - just a little wishful thinking.

After spending all of 2018 in the bottom 5 on the ladder we have only had about 6 weekends in the top half.

Even in a cult reality manages to creep into a few minds.

[Grantysghost]

I am with you MJP, I don't rate Melbourne at all. Our midfield is superior to their's and we will have a field day. Sure Oliver and Petraca have done well but against who? The Bont and Macrae racked up 70 disposals against Brisbane who have a very good midfield, and as you say who is going to stop Naughton.

Looking forward to this one.

I'm agreeing with the sentiment of this thread. It wasn't long ago my Melbourne mates were calling for Goodwin to be sacked (before they went on this run). I too think we have a good chance against them. They did play a couple of note worthy games, one was against the Suns when they were going quite well (Rankine's debut) which they won (which in hindsight might not have been that big), and also a close game against the Lions where they stormed home late losing by 4 points in the end.

Generally though they aren't the type of side to give us huge headaches. It will be more of a grind and if we can ensure our pressure is there I think they will struggle with it. Hope we can get on top early, they are a confidence side and when they get their tails up can be hard to stop especially someone like Oliver. That run they went on in 2018 is a good example.

As much as I hate to say it I think they have improved their list this season. Langdon from Freo out on the wing is giving them some extra run which they were missing and Tomlinson also provides the same, albeit not the same output. Neither of them superstars but gives their list more balance.

Their defence has tightened up with Vandenberg and Harmes used down there at the moment to good effect.

These are generally the type of games Melbourne drop over the journey.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

One thing for sure, this game is one where we must convert our chances in front of goal. Inaccuracy could be the death of us in this one. My lack of faith in this game has nothing to do with Melbourne but more to do with us. We've beaten lowly North, Sydney and Adelaide. We pipped an inexperienced Gold Coast and then beat injury plagued GWS and Essendon (both who aren't much chop this season even with a healthy list). There are no noteworthy wins in there. We haven't beaten a side in the top 8. So i'm not sure where the faith should come from.

[Happy Days]

Pains me to admit but the Dees are kind of nice. They seem to have tidied up their ball use and look super dangerous moving the ball between the arcs. Weideman is against all odds kind of good, and they have a deep spread of goal kickers that can stretch any team's defence. Plus they have Max Gawn who seems tailor made to destroy us. We gave up a million clearances to Brisbane getting service from Oscar McInerney, and Melbourne's midfield group is just about as good as theirs.

I am not confident about this game.

[comrade]

Yeah, I'm not sure our side deserves any faith given what we've dished up over the last 3.5 years.

We should win, but I have no confidence we will.

[mjp]

Pains me to admit but the Dees are kind of nice. They seem to have tidied up their ball use and look super dangerous moving the ball between the arcs...

I am not confident about this game.

Less than one month ago they only scored 4 goals against Port whilst conceding 12.

Admittedly, we only kicked 5...but conceded just 8 (and had more scoring shots than our opponent).

I guess you either believe or you don't but again, if we are worrying about Brayshaw, Oliver and Weideman, how the hell do they feel about Macrae, Bont and Naught?

[Happy Days]

Less than one month ago they only scored 4 goals against Port whilst conceding 12.

Admittedly, we only kicked 5...but conceded just 8 (and had more scoring shots than our opponent).

I guess you either believe or you don't but again, if we are worrying about Brayshaw, Oliver and Weideman, how the hell do they feel about Macrae, Bont and Naught?

That's kind of a trap we fall into though, isn't it? We think our top end talent is so good that they should carry us to wins against anyone, and then at the end of another loss we look at the stat sheet to see they've all played well, but the other team has played better. I know I've been guilty of it many times.

[1eyedog]

Got nothing to do with having better players it's how hard we have to work to score and how easy we are to score against that will be issues on Saturday. For me it's a structural issue.

Melbourne move the ball really quickly. We will stay with them by working super hard in F50 for our goals and then let them get away from us through easy goals by using the corridor with fast ball movement.

Rinse. Repeat.

[The Pie Man]

Was listening to Rob Harding yesterday on SEN and he reckons Melbourne a smoky for the flag from the bottom half of the 8.

Tipping we will go in as underdogs...even Bevo's brief seemed to agree that the win on the weekend had its 'frustrations' and alluded to 'huge challenges up ahead' ('we'll have less time, less space against Melbourne')

I'm just looking forward to Saturday, should be obvious to all that play in it that it's a mini-final. Also happy it will be a day game, suiting Naughton et al (and if you trust 5 day weather forecasts, it looks nice)

[GVGjr]

As I mentioned on the game day thread, Melbourne are a good team and from my perspective we shouldn't be underestimating them but I rate our chances this week.

We need a good start to insert some doubts in their mind and we need to curb Petracca who's been in fine form

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Picking the opposition is something I can't do but I get that it's anxiety.
It kills your anxiety if you face worst case scenario and then things can only get better. Prepare for the worst but hope for the best?

[Bulldog Revolution]

Melbourne are a good developing side - they are awesome when you don't match their intensity in the middle - but the don't always appear to have much else if they aren't dominating centre square.

I'd back Mike that our senior players are better and more consistent performers - so it will be exciting to see what we serve up on Saturday

[josie]

We seem to do better when considered underdogs. Happy we are not favourite although hope we can shake off that stigma and become a power club like cats sometime soon.

[SonofScray]

To answer the thread title:
Because our club has eroded a lot of trust that we'll get the required effort and ability on the park, on any given game day. I feel like we need a lot more to go right for us to win than most other teams. It all just comes undone too easily.

[Bulldog4life]

Year on year of going to the footy seeing our doggies play I ALWAYS thought we would win. I have no reason to change my way of thinking now. That's part of the fun in supporting our great club. We will destroy "The Dees":

[Remi Moses]

Didn’t realize Melbourne had morphed into Richmond
In all honesty they should have a decent side as besides 18 they’ve been on the bottom
They got Collingwood at the perfect time let’s be honest . They beat two sides we beat convincingly also .
We need to make May and Lever accountable and not bomb into the 50 . I’d be confident if we can fix the springboard teams get off our f 50 .

[DOG GOD]

Hmm. Even Gawn coming back from injury should destroy what we have and give the demons mids first use. If they get it in quick to McDonald, Weideman and Fritsch, then they could have a field day. Remember McDonald kicked 4 or 5 against us one game and Fritsch took 14 marks.

If we allow the demons to get easy access from our fwd 50, then I expect them to score quick and score well. If we bomb it, I’m confident May and Lever will counteract Naughton.
I don’t think it will be an easy game. My best friend is a demons man, so I’m praying we can get the job done.

[Bulldog Joe]

Well, I entered season 2020 full of confidence and had it destroyed in the first 10 minutes of the season, when I was badly in need of some joy.

When we resumed it was more of the same against St Kilda and I have seriously questioned the coach and the team regularly since then.

However, when I look at the personnel available for this week, there should really be no excuse for losing to Melbourne.

I know that Max Gawn is better than anyone we can put up against him, but if we turn up to play we have more midfield depth and polish and should not be allowing them to deliver comfortably to their forwards.

At our end Naughton is a more dangerous forward than anyone they have.

We should win.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Well, I entered season 2020 full of confidence and had it destroyed in the first 10 minutes of the season, when I was badly in need of some joy.

When we resumed it was more of the same against St Kilda and I have seriously questioned the coach and the team regularly since then.

However, when I look at the personnel available for this week, there should really be no excuse for losing to Melbourne.

I know that Max Gawn is better than anyone we can put up against him, but if we turn up to play we have more midfield depth and polish and should not be allowing them to deliver comfortably to their forwards.

At our end Naughton is a more dangerous forward than anyone they have.

We should win.

You're bang on. On paper we should win and we should have faith. Sadly we just haven't come to play often enough this season. A poor quarter here and a poor quarter there where our defence without the ball is non-existent and the oppostion run rampant. This has lead to the loss of trust in this team to get the job done.

Whilst Melbourne aren't contenders and we can point to their loss to Port and their easy wins against the bottom dwellars, we're talking up our most recent win against Adelaide and they did push all of Richmond, Geelong and Brisbane. Something we weren't capable of doing (Geelong still to come for us but I wouldn't be confident). So I think, whilst on paper we are ahead of the Dees, in the context of this season we are fairly level with them which is what makes this game so important and what will make it so telling. We don't want to hear again "except 10 minutes in the X quarter, we matched them". No more excuses.

[mjp]

Melbourne are a good developing side..


3-weeks ago they were terrible and their coach was getting sacked - their president was publicly questioning the right of the players to wear the guernsey. Since then, they have played the bottom 2 and a Collingwood side basically devastated by injury and workload (4 games in 14 days)...

I think that they SHOULD be a good developing side. They aren't. They are NO GOOD.

I am (of course) concerned about our up-down-down-up effort but our last few games we have been down on personnel (or, have seen the return of a couple of long-term injured who werent QUITE ready to fully contribute - Dunks and Naughts)...we should be right.

[CarnTheScray]

All I can say is if our inconsistency is not solved next season then there is a problem with the coaching panel.

[Grantysghost]

All I can say is if our inconsistency is not solved next season then there is a problem with the coaching panel.

Is it not just kind of what you expect from a developing side? I get the angle for sure.

[Bulldog Revolution]

I think that they SHOULD be a good developing side. They aren't. They are NO GOOD.



Thats kind of what I meant - I think they are a hopelessly performed side based on the talent on the list over the past 4+ years.

They found a way to not make the finals in 2017, performed well in 2018, were woeful in 2019 and have been inconsistent in 2020.

They are one of the great under-performers in the competition - but they have a lot of good players

[Grantysghost]

Thats kind of what I meant - I think they are a hopelessly performed side based on the talent on the list over the past 4+ years.

They found a way to not make the finals in 2017, performed well in 2018, were woeful in 2019 and have been inconsistent in 2020.

They are one of the great under-performers in the competition - but they have a lot of good players

Under performers ? Surely you jest....https://media.giphy.com/media/RMf6QmwTpV9i7zEV1q/giphy.gif

[Dry Rot]

I think that they SHOULD be a good developing side. They aren't. They are NO GOOD.



Yes, they are useless pea hearts.

[MrMahatma]

I’m always optimistic. I’ve been to each of our matches in SE Qld this year and have seen us get spanked by Carlton and Richmond. I’m still optimistic. We don’t need much to go our way and we’ll win well.

Lots of Bruce bashing in the Mach committee thread, but if we bring him in he’ll (hopefully) finally get an extended run with another key fwd. if we Mark more inside 50s, we’ll not only score more, but stop the turn over goals. That alone could be a 6-7 goal difference in a match for us.

With JJ. Crozier and possibly suckling in the mix, we would have our most physically mature and experienced team for a long time, and structurally, apart from Cordy, prob our best 22.

Hunter, Naughton and Dunkley are now back and a few matches in. There are many reasons to be optimistic.

[mjp]

Lots of Bruce bashing in the Mach committee thread, but if we bring him in he’ll (hopefully) finally get an extended run with another key fwd.

We recruited him to play alongside Naughton. We really haven't seen that happen all year...his effort and output has been below expectations but surely it is time to go 'all in' on our investment/pre-season strategy now that both are available...

[Mofra]

We recruited him to play alongside Naughton. We really haven't seen that happen all year...his effort and output has been below expectations but surely it is time to go 'all in' on our investment/pre-season strategy now that both are available...
Which one of Bruce or Naughton do you play deep?

The original plan was Bruce deep, Naughton high but I'm wondering if we should swap them. Naughton is coming off injury and looked fantastic close to goal, and getting Bruce involved in the play by playing higher might get his confidence back up.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

We recruited him to play alongside Naughton. We really haven't seen that happen all year...his effort and output has been below expectations but surely it is time to go 'all in' on our investment/pre-season strategy now that both are available...

Agree. Bruce has had his much needed rest. Naughton is hitting his straps. Let's see what they can do.

In regards to who plays deep, Schache would have been the ultimate decoy for Naughton as that lead up forward. Why can't he just pull his finger out? It's very frustrating as he has the talent.

[dog town]

We recruited him to play alongside Naughton. We really haven't seen that happen all year...his effort and output has been below expectations but surely it is time to go 'all in' on our investment/pre-season strategy now that both are available... This is one of the first times that the oppo need to make some decisions on personnel with Bruce as well. If Melbourne go in unchanged they have to decide whether to use May on Bruce or Naughton. Either way I think one of them will have a beneficial match up. Bruce has had some match ups that are well suited to him I’m not sure anyone outside of May will be able to compete with him when he engages contact.

[Grantysghost]

This is one of the first times that the oppo need to make some decisions on personnel with Bruce as well. If Melbourne go in unchanged they have to decide whether to use May on Bruce or Naughton. Either way I think one of them will have a beneficial match up. Bruce has had some match ups that are well suited to him I’m not sure anyone outside of May will be able to compete with him when he engages contact.

I like the idea of Lever on Naughton.

[Happy Days]

I like the idea of Lever on Naughton.

BBQ Chicken. Lever has been really poor pretty much his entire tenure at the Dees.

[mjp]

This is one of the first times that the oppo need to make some decisions on personnel with Bruce as well. If Melbourne go in unchanged they have to decide whether to use May on Bruce or Naughton. Either way I think one of them will have a beneficial match up. Bruce has had some match ups that are well suited to him I’m not sure anyone outside of May will be able to compete with him when he engages contact.

May takes Naughton...that's what he is getting paid the big bucks to do.

[dog town]

May takes Naughton...that's what he is getting paid the big bucks to do.
Which I think gives Bruce his best size and shape match up in months.

[Ozza]

Which one of Bruce or Naughton do you play deep?

The original plan was Bruce deep, Naughton high but I'm wondering if we should swap them. Naughton is coming off injury and looked fantastic close to goal, and getting Bruce involved in the play by playing higher might get his confidence back up.

I think if you look at Lynch and Riewoldt and how they play together there are times when Lynch is deepest and times Riewoldt is. Lynch probably more often - but it would appear to be determined on match ups and where they feel like they can get an advantage. Against Melbourne, I'd presume you would want to be getting May out of D50 where possible, get him up the ground, and then perhaps try and get him for pace looping back towards goal as well.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I think if you look at Lynch and Riewoldt and how they play together there are times when Lynch is deepest and times Riewoldt is. Lynch probably more often - but it would appear to be determined on match ups and where they feel like they can get an advantage. Against Melbourne, I'd presume you would want to be getting May out of D50 where possible, get him up the ground, and then perhaps try and get him for pace looping back towards goal as well.
Naughton will eat him for breakfast here. Did you see his backwards loop against Talia? Magnificent.
Naughton I think has both May and Lever covered. May is more suited to Bruce but Lever on Naughton is a nightmare for Melbourne.

[Bulldog4life]

Which one of Bruce or Naughton do you play deep?

The original plan was Bruce deep, Naughton high but I'm wondering if we should swap them. Naughton is coming off injury and looked fantastic close to goal, and getting Bruce involved in the play by playing higher might get his confidence back up.

A more accurate kick close to goal too. Struggles further out.

[GVGjr]

We recruited him to play alongside Naughton. We really haven't seen that happen all year...his effort and output has been below expectations but surely it is time to go 'all in' on our investment/pre-season strategy now that both are available...

Didn't we recruit Bruce to play in a forward line that supposedly was going to have 3 tall forwards in it?

Even allowing for this, is there really a good reason for to maintain a spot for an undeniably out of form player?
He might actually thrive as the 2nd banana in the forward line but we are paying him to play a more significant role.

I suspect we will do exactly what you are suggesting but I don't like hearing that other players aren't getting a game because of their form and yet Bruce gets named each week without really making a decent contribution

[comrade]

I suspect we will do exactly what you are suggesting but I don't like hearing that other players aren't getting a game because of their form and yet Bruce gets named each week without really making a decent contribution

As well as rewarding a player with game time when he clearly wasn't professional enough to keep himself in shape during the shutdown period. What sort of message does that send to blokes that are battling on the fringes?

[CarnTheScray]

I suspect we will do exactly what you are suggesting but I don't like hearing that other players aren't getting a game because of their form and yet Bruce gets named each week without really making a decent contribution

He ensures we aren't out-marked and takes attention away from Naughton. What players that play in the forward line aren't being selected?

[CarnTheScray]

Which one of Bruce or Naughton do you play deep?

The original plan was Bruce deep, Naughton high but I'm wondering if we should swap them. Naughton is coming off injury and looked fantastic close to goal, and getting Bruce involved in the play by playing higher might get his confidence back up.

I've always thought it was appropriate to have Naughton FF and Bruce HF. Then you ensure there is a contest at the edge of the forward line, and if we have any forced bombs, you have the best contested mark in the league to mark them.

[GVGjr]

He ensures we aren't out-marked and takes attention away from Naughton. What players that play in the forward line aren't being selected?

Do you think we went out and recruited a player to a long term deal to provide a rodeo clown type output?
I know I'm being harsh there and apologies for that but I think you could find players on a vastly cheaper pay scale that could perform that type of role perhaps even better than what we have seen from Bruce

I know he is going to play regardless of what I say and I do wish him the best but at some stage we have to put a level of expectation on him. Schache got dropped after one very bad game, Bruce has been poor for most of the season.

[GVGjr]

As well as rewarding a player with game time when he clearly wasn't professional enough to keep himself in shape during the shutdown period. What sort of message does that send to blokes that are battling on the fringes?

I actually trust the footy department to determine if he is fit and focused enough to play and I'm not sure his lack of form is weight related. He isn't making a contribution though and that is something the MC needs to be accountable for

[Danjul]

Do you think we went out and recruited a player to a long term deal to provide a rodeo clown type output?
I know I'm being harsh there and apologies for that but I think you could find players on a vastly cheaper pay scale that could perform that type of role perhaps even better than what we have seen from Bruce

I know he is going to play regardless of what I say and I do wish him the best but at some stage we have to put a level of expectation on him. Schache got dropped after one very bad game, Bruce has been poor for most of the season.

He got dropped during the game didn’t he. I thought he sat on the bench for half.

And that’s after 11 possessions and 2 goals the week before.

And I know this will get people furious but Naughton has not yet had 11 possessions in a game this season.

[azabob]

He got dropped during the game didn’t he. I thought he sat on the bench for half.

And that’s after 11 possessions and 2 goals the week before.

And I know this will get people furious but Naughton has not yet had 11 possessions in a game this season.

We better drop Naughton then. Quality over Quantity my friend, quality over quantity.

[Danjul]

We better drop Naughton then. Quality over Quantity my friend, quality over quantity.
I would like to know the club’s definition of quality, because a forward who averages 2 goals a game, and gets them in most games is quality.

4 Against Hawthorn gave us a win last year, multiple threes. I like him.

[Grantysghost]

He got dropped during the game didn’t he. I thought he sat on the bench for half.

And that’s after 11 possessions and 2 goals the week before.

And I know this will get people furious but Naughton has not yet had 11 possessions in a game this season.

Naughton is the most exciting player we've ever had I think. Actually I'm so excited I have to keep telling myself to relax.
Hes Chris Grant blended with Johnno with the swagger of Carey. Let's just pray injuries stay away.

[CarnTheScray]

Naughton is the most exciting player we've ever had I think. Actually I'm so excited I have to keep telling myself to relax.
He is isn't he? Been a long time since we've had a potential generational forward.

The best part is he is only 20.

[azabob]

I would like to know the club’s definition of quality, because a forward who averages 2 goals a game, and gets them in most games is quality.

4 Against Hawthorn gave us a win last year, multiple threes. I like him.

I am all for Schache playing and I agree he should be played more by but comparing his and Naughtons output based on stats isn’t a great argument.

[jeemak]

I am all for Schache playing and I agree he should be played more by but comparing his and Naughtons output based on stats isn’t a great argument.

What do you mean? Why wouldn't March 2019 be a good indicator of current form?

[Vred]

Anyone know what’s going on with our indigenous jumper this round? Last team to post anything about it, already getting beat up by AFL fans about it as well, bad look for the club if you ask me.

[GVGjr]

Anyone know what’s going on with our indigenous jumper this round? Last team to post anything about it, already getting beat up by AFL fans about it as well, bad look for the club if you ask me.

It's going to take something special to beat last years effort

https://resources.afl.com.au/photo-resources/2020/08/19/5cc13433-b50b-4ac8-b060-6ecf5c0a769c/10WBNM19DP2266.JPG?width=708&height=1062

https://resources.afl.com.au/photo-resources/2020/08/19/5cc13433-b50b-4ac8-b060-6ecf5c0a769c/10WBNM19DP2266.JPG?width=708&height=1062

WESTERN BULLDOGS

The 2019 jumper's design was created by renowned Indigenous artist Nathan Patterson.The personal story of Brett Goodes (brother of Swans champion Adam) is the inspiration and told through themes of family, culture and club. Goodes has a long association with the Bulldogs through a number of roles.

[CarnTheScray]

Do you think we went out and recruited a player to a long term deal to provide a rodeo clown type output?
I know I'm being harsh there and apologies for that but I think you could find players on a vastly cheaper pay scale that could perform that type of role perhaps even better than what we have seen from Bruce

I know he is going to play regardless of what I say and I do wish him the best but at some stage we have to put a level of expectation on him. Schache got dropped after one very bad game, Bruce has been poor for most of the season.

I understand what you are saying and I can see where you are coming from.

Bruce is much more essential than Schache up forward. He may currently be in poor form but Schache would just go missing and not contribute anywhere near the level of physicality Bruce is, even if Bruce is dropping easy marks (slapping the ball rather than mark in fact). Don't forget he has also be double teamed due to Naughton's absence, though I am not trying to excuse him there.

Of course it is in the best interests of the club to get the most out of Bruce, which doesn't look like happening this season.
Last season he was also one of the top contested marks in the league. It doesn't help he has clearly gained weight. Once he is at full fitness again he will be better than whoever else we could've picked up and we will wonder what we were thinking.

If I'm wrong I'll spew up! At least JUH will be his quick replacement if he does not succeed.

[jeemak]

Bruce TRIES HARD.

Naughton has been injured and if we plucked Bruce out we'd be relying on Schache who doesn't always try hard or Young who has clearly been discussed sufficiently around here anyway. The alternative in English can't hit the side of a barn etc...…….you know where I'm going with this.

It's not easy coming to a club, it's not easy doing so if not cherry ripe. Whatever the reasons for the latter piece the guys has been left to fight it out in the forward fifty himself for most of the year with a bunch of poor crumbing small to mid sized forwards in support who have been changing from week to week.

Just maybe, his form will improve once he has a partner to play with who also tries consistently with the rest hopefully adding the valuable support needed to make the forward line effective.

[bornadog]

I understand what you are saying and I can see where you are coming from.

Bruce is much more essential than Schache up forward. He may currently be in poor form but Schache would just go missing and not contribute anywhere near the level of physicality Bruce is, even if Bruce is dropping easy marks (slapping the ball rather than mark in fact). Don't forget he has also be double teamed due to Naughton's absence, though I am not trying to excuse him there.

Of course it is in the best interests of the club to get the most out of Bruce, which doesn't look like happening this season.
Last season he was also one of the top contested marks in the league. It doesn't help he has clearly gained weight. Once he is at full fitness again he will be better than whoever else we could've picked up and we will wonder what we were thinking.

If I'm wrong I'll spew up! At least JUH will be his quick replacement if he does not succeed.

This is why he gets a game over Schache. Schache just doesn't seem to have the same intensity as Bruce.

[boydogs]

Melbourne are weak as piss

Richmond absolutely toyed with them

[The Adelaide Connection]

I read this article at work today and can't see any mention to it (apologies if it's been mentioned), but Melbourne may be without Gawn AND Preuss.

I'll also add a +1 to not understanding why everyone is suddenly gushing over Melbourne. They've had three training runs in a row and have done what they needed to do, but they were uber-awful against Port. Like, bad-bad. Surely no Gawn/Preuss (or playing one injured) would tip it in our favour?


Big problem: Hip injury has another Dees ruckman under an injury cloud
MELBOURNE is sweating on the fitness of Max Gawn and Braydon Preuss as it faces the prospect of being without a specialist ruckman against the Western Bulldogs at Metricon Stadium on Saturday.

Gawn has missed the Demons' past two matches with a posterior cruciate ligament problem as well as a tear behind his shoulder, but the club's injury report now mentions only the knee injury.

Preuss stepped up to play his first senior game of the season in last Saturday's victory over Collingwood in the absence of Gawn and first-year big man Luke Jackson (hamstring), who could miss up to six more weeks.

However, Preuss left Wednesday's training session early after hurting his hip and underwent a scan.


Melbourne's high performance manager Darren Burgess remains confident the 206cm ex-Kangaroo will be available to take on the Bulldogs, but he will be monitored ahead of Saturday's game.

Gawn has also not been ruled out, but is no certainty to play, either.



If none of Gawn, Jackson or Preuss is ready to go, the Demons are likely to turn to some sort of combination between Tom McDonald, Adam Tomlinson and Sam Weideman.

The Dogs have their own injury concerns, with No.1 ruckman Tim English (ankle) in a race against time to be fit to play.


https://www.afl.com.au/news/487892/big-problem-hip-injury-has-another-dees-ruckman-under-an-injury-cloud

[GVGjr]

Bruce TRIES HARD.

Naughton has been injured and if we plucked Bruce out we'd be relying on Schache who doesn't always try hard or Young who has clearly been discussed sufficiently around here anyway. The alternative in English can't hit the side of a barn etc...…….you know where I'm going with this.

It's not easy coming to a club, it's not easy doing so if not cherry ripe. Whatever the reasons for the latter piece the guys has been left to fight it out in the forward fifty himself for most of the year with a bunch of poor crumbing small to mid sized forwards in support who have been changing from week to week.

Just maybe, his form will improve once he has a partner to play with who also tries consistently with the rest hopefully adding the valuable support needed to make the forward line effective.

The only thing Bruce is 'trying' is my patience ;) but I did have a chuckle.
I honestly don't get why we are so prepared to give him a free pass here. Some fat shame him but also want him picked and others say there is no alternatives but seem to insist that others in our group aren't being played because they don't have the form yet Bruce gets picked with not much to hang his hat on.
We've apparently paid top dollar for a decoy forward and I'm basing that on his performances so far.

I get he will be played but he has been disappointing performer. If form has anything to do with it we should be trying someone like Lewis Young or we could just play Sweet and leave English as a forward

[comrade]

Looking forward to Bruce dominating this week if picked, as it sounds like all that was missing for him to tear games apart was Naughton beside him.

What’s his pass mark now that the missing piece Is back? I’m thinking anything less than than 2-3 goals, handful of marks and 10+ touches is a fail.

[MrMahatma]

Has he really put on weight?

I’m not so sure. I reckon he’s just a big dude who slouches a bit. He doesn’t have a big gut.

[Bullies]

Has he really put on weight?

I’m not so sure. I reckon he’s just a big dude who slouches a bit. He doesn’t have a big gut. I think it was his condition that was the concern when he returned. With the 1st ISO he went back to the farm and may not have done the work to maintain his fitness. You can see it in his second efforts he is exhausted. This also causes him to drop marks he would normally eat. If you look at his pre season game against Port he was up and about and had no issue with second efforts or grabbing his marks. He will be so much better with Astro in. I think Melbourne will be hoping he does NOT play.

[GVGjr]

Has he really put on weight?

I’m not so sure. I reckon he’s just a big dude who slouches a bit. He doesn’t have a big gut.

I'm not so sure he has, but there has been a few comments

[Axe Man]

Looking forward to Bruce dominating this week if picked, as it sounds like all that was missing for him to tear games apart was Naughton beside him.

What’s his pass mark now that the missing piece Is back? I’m thinking anything less than than 2-3 goals, handful of marks and 10+ touches is a fail.

Didn't you know it's all about possessions? Hopefully he can pick up a few cheap handballs to pump his numbers up.

[Mofra]

Naughton will eat him for breakfast here. Did you see his backwards loop against Talia? Magnificent.
Naughton I think has both May and Lever covered. May is more suited to Bruce but Lever on Naughton is a nightmare for Melbourne.
May isn't slow, but Naughton has him covered for agility. Really small turning circle for a tall

[soupman]

What’s his pass mark now that the missing piece Is back? I’m thinking anything less than than 2-3 goals, handful of marks and 10+ touches is a fail.

bUt HeS PLaYiNg iN a DeCOy FoRwARd rOlE.

Bruce is just so disappointing. I'm fine with him not dominating and at least working hard to try to have some impact but he is just give us nothing and has all year. Honestly the way he is currently playing we may as well have Fletcher Roberts playing at FF. I think it would be almost the exact same output, North game aside.

[comrade]

bUt HeS PLaYiNg iN a DeCOy FoRwARd rOlE.

Bruce is just so disappointing. I'm fine with him not dominating and at least working hard to try to have some impact but he is just give us nothing and has all year. Honestly the way he is currently playing we may as well have Fletcher Roberts playing at FF. I think it would be almost the exact same output, North game aside.

A big 4 year deal to play decoy to a 3rd year forward. Yippee..

[bornadog]

bUt HeS PLaYiNg iN a DeCOy FoRwARd rOlE.

Bruce is just so disappointing. I'm fine with him not dominating and at least working hard to try to have some impact but he is just give us nothing and has all year. Honestly the way he is currently playing we may as well have Fletcher Roberts playing at FF. I think it would be almost the exact same output, North game aside.


A big 4 year deal to play decoy to a 3rd year forward. Yippee..

Whilst he has been disappointing to date in an unusual season, I am still happy we made the right decision. Once he gets back to his peak, he will be very handy for us. As MJP says, you don't lose your ability overnight, and we know he is a great contested mark at his best and kicks lots of goals.

[Mantis]

I have no idea who to pick this week... In 50:50 games I always pick with the heart, but I don't trust us one bit.

The ultimate battle between the league's best ''flat track bullies''.

[Topdog]

I have no idea who to pick this week... In 50:50 games I always pick with the heart, but I don't trust us one bit.

The ultimate battle between the league's best ''flat track bullies''.

Yep, perfect summation. I dont think Melbourne are good but I don't trust us at all.

[Danjul]

Whilst he has been disappointing to date in an unusual season, I am still happy we made the right decision. Once he gets back to his peak, he will be very handy for us. As MJP says, you don't lose your ability overnight, and we know he is a great contested mark at his best and kicks lots of goals.
Last year Bruce kicked over 2 goals in 5 games - 6,4,3,3,3 and a total of 36 from 22 games (average 1.5)
Schache kicked over 2 goals in 5 games - 4,3,3,3,3 and a total of 23 from 13 games (average 1.7)

its a shame that Schache can’t kick goals like Bruce can.

Still trying to understand the enthusiasm

[jeemak]

The only thing Bruce is 'trying' is my patience ;) but I did have a chuckle.
I honestly don't get why we are so prepared to give him a free pass here. Some fat shame him but also want him picked and others say there is no alternatives but seem to insist that others in our group aren't being played because they don't have the form yet Bruce gets picked with not much to hang his hat on.
We've apparently paid top dollar for a decoy forward and I'm basing that on his performances so far.

I get he will be played but he has been disappointing performer. If form has anything to do with it we should be trying someone like Lewis Young or we could just play Sweet and leave English as a forward

There's a couple areas that I think mitigate his performances that I think you undersell. He's had no support and a changing structure around him, meaning he's often double teamed (I get Naughton didn't have any support on the weekend but Adelaide are a rabble and supply was excellent), and much of our football has been played with a high press that has resulted in hugely congested forward areas.

Players who are down whether it be due to fitness or form can often perform well in sides where there's support and structure. We've not had that, aside from on the weekend and against North really. I know you think it's funny that I mentioned he tries hard, but it's the truth and it's not something that could be said of possible replacements with any certainty. We'll never know but I wonder how Schache or Young would have gone under the same set of circumstances. I can take a guess, you probably could too.

As for playing Sweet and putting English forward, I think that just opens us up to other issues and while English is fine swinging forward occasionally I reckon he'd find out the hard way just how difficult being a full time solo forward actually is.

Hopefully if played he will gel with Naughton. I believe this is our best potential combination for now and am keen to see it develop.

[bornadog]

Last year Bruce kicked over 2 goals in 5 games - 6,4,3,3,3 and a total of 36 from 22 games (average 1.5)
Schache kicked over 2 goals in 5 games - 4,3,3,3,3 and a total of 23 from 13 games (average 1.7)

its a shame that Schache can’t kick goals like Bruce can.

Still trying to understand the enthusiasm

Bruce also top 5 in contested marks last year

[Danjul]

Bruce also top 5 in contested marks last year

But the reality is Goals win games.

Schache and Dale have proven that they can kick them.

Surely some experienced adult can organise things so these kids can just do their thing.

[CarnTheScray]

But the reality is Goals win games.

Schache and Dale have proven that they can kick them.

Surely some experienced adult can organise things so these kids can just do their thing.

Dale has proven he can kick goals against poor sides or when we are 50 points down when there's no competition.

[Danjul]

Dale has proven he can kick goals against poor sides or when we are 50 points down when there's no competition.
I can’t find any evidence to refute your claim ...

.......because over the last three years we have often been 50 points down and have only beaten poor sides .

But I cannot blame the players for that disgraceful state of affairs.

[Grantysghost]

I can’t find any evidence to refute your claim ...

.......because over the last three years we have often been 50 points down and have only beaten poor sides .

But I cannot blame the players for that disgraceful state of affairs.

I don't understand the large margins of recent times. 2015 and 16 I felt we were always close or in games (memory might be wrong). I guess that's a bit to do with personnel and maybe a transition phase from Maca to Bevo.
I don't agree the players escape blame. I think the truth lies somewhere in between.

[Danjul]

I don't understand the large margins of recent times. 2015 and 16 I felt we were always close or in games (memory might be wrong). I guess that's a bit to do with personnel and maybe a transition phase from Maca to Bevo.
I don't agree the players escape blame. I think the truth lies somewhere in between.
In 2015 and 2016 I usually expected to win but the reality was luck could play a part in the form of injuries or opposing champions having a great game. People looked forward to the games and what they might be building towards.

Now, after 2018 and particularly Carlton smashing our experimental lineup last year, supporters have been inoculated with doubt. Hence the thread.

[1eyedog]

I don't understand the large margins of recent times. 2015 and 16 I felt we were always close or in games (memory might be wrong). I guess that's a bit to do with personnel and maybe a transition phase from Maca to Bevo.
I don't agree the players escape blame. I think the truth lies somewhere in between.

We got absolutely toweled up by a lowly Freo in the last round of 2016. Admittedly we were without Libba and Macrae.

[Remi Moses]

I can’t find any evidence to refute your claim ...

.......because over the last three years we have often been 50 points down and have only beaten poor sides .

But I cannot blame the players for that disgraceful state of affairs.

The players have to been accountable for their performance
Buck stops with the coach no doubt , but the players have to be accountable also

[Remi Moses]

We got absolutely toweled up by a lowly Freo in the last round of 2016. Admittedly we were without Libba and Macrae.

We lost to Melbourne in 2015 also . Lost to stkilda after being 11 goals up
Results happen in an even competition.

[Danjul]

The players have to been accountable for their performance
Buck stops with the coach no doubt , but the players have to be accountable also
Purely from memory so correct any errors:

in the last half of 2017 we were in the top half of the ladder for 1 week.
In 2018 we were bottom 5 All season.
in 2019 we were bottom half of the competition from round 4 until the win over Adelaide popped us into the eight for another round of player bashing .

And this season? How have we done against the opposition? No better, and some of the bad bits are like watching a video loop.

We have had 4 years of blaming soft players who not bringing 100% to the game. For me it ‘doesn’t cut it ‘.

[1eyedog]

We lost to Melbourne in 2015 also . Lost to stkilda after being 11 goals up
Results happen in an even competition.

That St. Kilda game very nearly broke me. It's one team that we have struggled with over the past 10-15 years.

[GVGjr]

That St. Kilda game very nearly broke me. It's one team that we have struggled with over the past 10-15 years.

Thanks for the inspiration. I'll start a thread over the weekend comparing the two teams in recent years
We've typically performed a lot better over the season but I think they might be a slight leader in head to head games in the last few years

I'm interested in their approach with the rucks where they added Ryder to support Marshall and backed them both up by getting Ryan Abbott from Geelong. Our approach is quite a contrast in that we've preferred English with more ad hoc support
It might be an interesting comparison.

[Happy Days]

That St. Kilda game very nearly broke me. It's one team that we have struggled with over the past 10-15 years.

That game was my fault. I spent the entire week on here bagging Jack Billings, and also turned up to the ground at the end of the second quarter, missing seeing us get up by 9 goals but in just enough time to see Clay do his ACL and see us concede 11 or so in a row.

So sorry man. Glad you hung around.

[comrade]

That game was my fault. I spent the entire week on here bagging Jack Billings, and also turned up to the ground at the end of the second quarter, missing seeing us get up by 9 goals but in just enough time to see Clay do his ACL and see us concede 11 or so in a row.

So sorry man. Glad you hung around.

That game was a sacrifice to the footy gods that enabled 2016 to happen.

[Grantysghost]

Thanks for the inspiration. I'll start a thread over the weekend comparing the two teams in recent years
We've typically performed a lot better over the season but I think they might be a slight leader in head to head games in the last few years

I'm interested in their approach with the rucks where they added Ryder to support Marshall and backed them both up by getting Ryan Abbott from Geelong. Our approach is quite a contrast in that we've preferred English with more ad hoc support
It might be an interesting comparison.

I remember under Thomas in the Rocket years they used to try and intimidate us physically with guys like Gehrig and Hamill, and I think unfortunately it worked. Never forget the day we made a semi stand when Gia took out Kosi on the wing at Docklands. It would be interesting to break down their hold over us in recent memory.

[bornadog]

We got absolutely toweled up by a lowly Freo in the last round of 2016. Admittedly we were without Libba and Macrae.

We had a lot more out than just Libba and Macrae.

[bornadog]

I remember under Thomas in the Rocket years they used to try and intimidate us physically with guys like Gehrig and Hamill, and I think unfortunately it worked. Never forget the day we made a semi stand when Gia took out Kosi on the wing at Docklands. It would be interesting to break down their hold over us in recent memory.

Last 10 games it's 5 all

[Happy Days]

Gawn confirmed out. Not bad.

[bornadog]

Gawn confirmed out. Not bad.

Preussy will play

[1eyedog]

Great team on paper feeling positive about the game. Gawn is is significant but our ins are better. Crozier in just makes us look so well managed and we'll benefit greatly with Vanders and JJ back obviously. Its the fastest team fielded all season and I love the forward line balance. We've strengthened our 20-22 players considerably. Must win.

[jeemak]

That game was my fault. I spent the entire week on here bagging Jack Billings, and also turned up to the ground at the end of the second quarter, missing seeing us get up by 9 goals but in just enough time to see Clay do his ACL and see us concede 11 or so in a row.

So sorry man. Glad you hung around.

That was the game I was right, where I said against the grain around here that I really rate Billings and stood by that position in terms of who I'd have picked at the time between him and Bont. He really had my back that day, of course, I've been proved wrong over time like MJP has on Bont as well.

I honestly can't say that I'd choose Billings ahead of Bont, but I still understand why he was. He's a freak and that game proved it. We would do well with a Billings now.

[AshMac]

Great team on paper feeling positive about the game. Gawn is is significant but our ins are better. Crozier in just makes us look so well managed and we'll benefit greatly with Vanders and JJ back obviously. Its the fastest team fielded all season and I love the forward line balance. We've strengthened our 20-22 players considerably. Must win.

Agree - looks about as close to our very best 22 as we can get. How we line up and can execute important. Weather 20-22 with no rain.

Keen to see Preuss against English. Surely will dominate the taps with strength but Timmy will win in impact around the ground.

Being on controlled F50 entries and some taken chances.

[1eyedog]

That game was my fault. I spent the entire week on here bagging Jack Billings, and also turned up to the ground at the end of the second quarter, missing seeing us get up by 9 goals but in just enough time to see Clay do his ACL and see us concede 11 or so in a row.

So sorry man. Glad you hung around.

Thanks.

Billings is very baggable. Did he kick 6 that day? I can't remember.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Great thread title MJP.

[jeemak]

Might be a quiet week on Woof this week!

[Rocket Science]

One "quiet" I'm looking forward to is from those giddy meeja bandwagoners pumping up 'Trac' as the best midfielder in the comp for the past month.

Spare me.

[Bulldog4life]

Might be a quiet week on Woof this week!

For some.:)

[bornadog]

Might be a quiet week on Woof this week!

Nah there will be a thread how Bevo not up to it and we can't beat Geelong :D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[Remi Moses]

West Coast in Perth would frighten me , but away from Perth
Not so sure
We can beat Geelong as well our mid depth will trouble them
If we get flogged at the source I fear Hawkins

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I think it’d be unfair to bring out the negativity after today’s win. I was reasonably happy with the game and I think Friday night will be a harsh enough reality check :eek:

[jeemak]

Nah there will be a thread how Bevo not up to it and we can't beat Geelong :D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Geelong will be tough I think. Will watch really closely tomorrow, I reckon in Adelaide they've got some concerns if they have an off day, as Adelaide can move the ball forward which we've seen.

There's something about Geelong that I don't quite trust at the moment. Dangerfield always pulls goals out of his arse against us but aside from that we match reasonably well.

[Mantis]

Geelong will be tough I think. Will watch really closely tomorrow, I reckon in Adelaide they've got some concerns if they have an off day, as Adelaide can move the ball forward which we've seen.

There's something about Geelong that I don't quite trust at the moment. Dangerfield always pulls goals out of his arse against us but aside from that we match reasonably well.

I watched Geelong last week pretty closely and they were clinical. They set the ground up the ground defensively as well as any team and have an in form power forward who is the focus of their attack.

I think our clearance abilities will worry them, but I’m concerned about our ability to score.

[Danjul]

Geelong will be tough I think. Will watch really closely tomorrow, I reckon in Adelaide they've got some concerns if they have an off day, as Adelaide can move the ball forward which we've seen.

There's something about Geelong that I don't quite trust at the moment. Dangerfield always pulls goals out of his arse against us but aside from that we match reasonably well.
Why would anyone expect Geelong to be a problem?

We have beaten them twice in the last two years and we have brought in Keath and Bruce. Haven’t they lost significant players.

A reasonable result would be Dogs by 15 points.

[jeemak]

I think it’d be unfair to bring out the negativity after today’s win. I was reasonably happy with the game and I think Friday night will be a harsh enough reality check :eek:

So if we go down by a couple of goals like we did against Port or a handful like we did against Brisbane does the site go into meltdown again?

Because to be honest the last few weeks have been pretty full on, and even at a point where we were a goal down at half time against a side above us on the ladder today it was starting to turn feral.

So in order to prepare us, what is a reasonable result next week?

[jeemak]

Why would anyone expect Geelong to be a problem?

We have beaten them twice in the last two years and we have brought in Keath and Bruce. Haven’t they lost significant players.

A reasonable result would be Dogs by 15 points.

You must have been pretty happy with today's outcome?

Look forward to reading all of the posts you're going to write about the things we did well today.

[Danjul]

You must have been pretty happy with today's outcome?

Look forward to reading all of the posts you're going to write about the things we did well today.
I’m always happy with a win. We beat Melbourne last year and I was expecting a win, especially with their injuries and some of our players in great form. Weren’t you?

[jeemak]

I watched Geelong last week pretty closely and they were clinical. They set the ground up the ground defensively as well as any team and have an in form power forward who is the focus of their attack.

I think our clearance abilities will worry them, but I’m concerned about our ability to score.

They're a mature outfit and I think organisation across the ground should be a given for them. If we don't do well at the coal face it will be a real struggle for mine.

We seemed to score pretty freely today, relative to this year's competition averages. I get Melbourne are a different kettle however, neither of our key marking targets had an impact and that gives me a little bit of hope that some versatility in scoring options is developing. Additionally, it seemed that Vander's running is becoming contagious and JJ looked like he wanted to get in on the act, and it's this area that I think we can leverage to put in a good show next week.

[jeemak]

I’m always happy with a win. We beat Melbourne last year and I was expecting a win, especially with their injuries and some of our players in great form. Weren’t you?

I was a bit concerned with our inability to finish in the first, some of our lapses in the second and also in the last, but the way we moved the ball in the third and our finishing was reminiscent of the best footy we've played in Bevo's time at the club.

All in all, we answered a challenge that was in front of us emphatically which was satisfying. I don't put as much faith in the results of previous years as a predictor of this year's likely outcomes as you seem to, so I thought today was an unknown that we comprehensively overcame.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

They're a mature outfit and I think organisation across the ground should be a given for them. If we don't do well at the coal face it will be a real struggle for mine.

We seemed to score pretty freely today, relative to this year's competition averages. I get Melbourne are a different kettle however, neither of our key marking targets had an impact and that gives me a little bit of hope that some versatility in scoring options is developing. Additionally, it seemed that Vander's running is becoming contagious and JJ looked like he wanted to get in on the act, and it's this area that I think we can leverage to put in a good show next week.

Just so hard to get a read on us right now. We have played some very good footy these past two weeks, intermingled with a couple of Qtrs of our worst footy.
If we serve up what we put up today in the second Qtr today, against Geelong next Friday they will terminally Gap us there and then. If however we give them 4 solid Qtrs with minimal unforced errors then we can really start to build some respect and momentum rolling into the last few rounds.

[Danjul]

I was a bit concerned with our inability to finish in the first, some of our lapses in the second and also in the last, but the way we moved the ball in the third and our finishing was reminiscent of the best footy we've played in Bevo's time at the club.

All in all, we answered a challenge that was in front of us emphatically which was satisfying. I don't put as much faith in the results of previous years as a predictor of this year's likely outcomes as you seem to, so I thought today was an unknown that we comprehensively overcame.

Bont, Macrae, Dunkley, Daniel, Williams, Crozier, Keath, Naughton, Libba, Wallis.... and more .. That 10 would probably walk into other teams. It doesn’t take much more to generate a win. We have the talent to produce good results.

Melbourne lost Gawn, that’s a big loss for them. And then it got worse before the game started. And as contributors here pointed out the Dogs sent out a team that was more balanced than usual. And they played like it.

[bornadog]

Geelong will be tough I think. Will watch really closely tomorrow, I reckon in Adelaide they've got some concerns if they have an off day, as Adelaide can move the ball forward which we've seen.

There's something about Geelong that I don't quite trust at the moment. Dangerfield always pulls goals out of his arse against us but aside from that we match reasonably well.

I am more confident for Friday than I was at the start of today's game. I thought today was a 50/50, but against Geelong, I am more 60/40 we will win.

[soupman]

I think we are always a chance against anyone, when we are on we are on. We do have issues making it harder for ourselves than it needs to be though, and we need to bring it on the day more than most do.

We are a big chance against Geelong, but it also looms as a game where we battle away for ages and then they just steamroll us in the second half like they did from 2015-2017.

I was really pleased with how much quicker cross the ground we looked today and i think a big part of that was having a forwardline that wasn't trying to fit all of Dale/Lloyd/Wallis/Naughton/Bruce in the forward 50 at all times. I don't know if it was luck or design (basically can we replicate it) but we seemed to have so much more space today when we went forward.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Bont, Macrae, Dunkley, Daniel, Williams, Crozier, Keath, Naughton, Libba, Wallis.... and more .. That 10 would probably walk into other teams. It doesn’t take much more to generate a win. We have the talent to produce good results.

Melbourne lost Gawn, that’s a big loss for them. And then it got worse before the game started. And as contributors here pointed out the Dogs sent out a team that was more balanced than usual. And they played like it.

I'm not deliberately going out of my way Danjul to be a contrarian, but I tend to think we're going to need more than those 10 contributors next week.

We seem to be a team or employ a strategy that requires all 18 to click, or at least not have 3 or 4 blokes not contributing, or making silly unforced errors.
Geelong is going to require a supreme effort from all our boys.
Case in point; we were fortunate in the first Qtr today when Vandemeer fluffed a kick inside 50, only for Hibberd to immediately turn it over to Bont, who then squibbed his kick inside 50 only to be fortunately gathered and ending in a goal to Mclean. We pull that sorta stuff against Geeling and not only will we not score, we will more than likely see them Tic-tac-toe all the way upfield for an easy score themselves.

Our win against Geelong last year was a monumental effort, and we only just got the choccies. I woke the whole house up when the final siren sounded!
.We're gonna need that same resolve and application again this week to do it again.
Should we manage it, it could really exponentially grow our side's belief heading into the final 3 rounds.

We should, as you say expect our 10 or so walk up starts in any other ckub to lead the way. ..I'm thinking though the acid test falls on the remaining guys to pull their weight, amplify their gane and to take their moments when they come. To that end I'm looking directly at at Mclean, Richards, Lipinski, Vandermeer, Gardner et al.

[jeemak]

Just so hard to get a read on us right now. We have played some very good footy these past two weeks, intermingled with a couple of Qtrs of our worst footy.
If we serve up what we put up today in the second Qtr today, against Geelong next Friday they will terminally Gap us there and then. If however we give them 4 solid Qtrs with minimal unforced errors then we can really start to build some respect and momentum rolling into the last few rounds.

I don't think today's game was an example of our worst footy. I get Melbourne didn't make the most of opportunities at times however, if they don't score a goal they get to keep the forward half pressure on as it doesn't go to the centre of the ground for a reset. A reset gives us a chance to actually reset and without seeing it like we did against Brisbane it's hard to know what the outcome would be.

It's actually something I've been thinking about, bad kicking leading to behinds begets more bad kicking leading to behinds. The ball stays in the forward half and the issue compounds largely because congestion and pressure builds. We've been the masters of this in recent years however, today in the third we showed ourselves that if you kick straight you can actually build momentum and that's a massive positive to me (again, see what Brisbane did to us).

I'm really looking forward to hopefully seeing a settled side have a crack at decent opposition after a couple of good weeks. We've had good weeks this year but our side hasn't been settled, and without wanting to sound like Bruce the pervert dickhead I just get a feeling we are primed to hit our straps and run over some opposition.

Hunter embedding himself back into the team is a massive positive, his style versus that of Laitham and Smith outside of the contest gives us good contrast and flexibility. As I've said in another post I reckon seeing these guys move the ball freely and run hard gives JJ some impetus to get in on the act.

[jeemak]

Bont, Macrae, Dunkley, Daniel, Williams, Crozier, Keath, Naughton, Libba, Wallis.... and more .. That 10 would probably walk into other teams. It doesn’t take much more to generate a win. We have the talent to produce good results.

Melbourne lost Gawn, that’s a big loss for them. And then it got worse before the game started. And as contributors here pointed out the Dogs sent out a team that was more balanced than usual. And they played like it.

Every team has ten players or so that would get a game in any other team all things being equal. That's what equalisation does.

[jeemak]

I think we are always a chance against anyone, when we are on we are on. We do have issues making it harder for ourselves than it needs to be though, and we need to bring it on the day more than most do.

We are a big chance against Geelong, but it also looms as a game where we battle away for ages and then they just steamroll us in the second half like they did from 2015-2017.

I was really pleased with how much quicker cross the ground we looked today and i think a big part of that was having a forwardline that wasn't trying to fit all of Dale/Lloyd/Wallis/Naughton/Bruce in the forward 50 at all times. I don't know if it was luck or design (basically can we replicate it) but we seemed to have so much more space today when we went forward.

A massive part of it is actually taking first or second opportunities to convert. As per my other posts in this thread, poor conversion and missed opportunities compounds congestion and pressure, and space dries up.

As for your first point, I agree totally. We are always a chance until we either show up not switched on which has a compounding affect across the entire ground resulting in our defence being caught pants down. Fix that and we're a different side and a worrying proposition to other teams.

[jeemak]

I'm not deliberately going out of my way Danjul to be a contrarian, but I tend to think we're going to need more than those 10 contributors next week.

We seem to be a team or employ a strategy that requires all 18 to click, or at least not have 3 or 4 blokes not contributing, or making silly unforced errors.
Geelong is going to require a supreme effort from all our boys.
Case in point; we were fortunate in the first Qtr today when Vandemeer fluffed a kick inside 50, only for Hibberd to immediately turn it over to Bont, who then squibbed his kick inside 50 only to be fortunately gathered and ending in a goal to Mclean. We pull that sorta stuff against Geeling and not only will we not score, we will more than likely see them Tic-tac-toe all the way upfield for an easy score themselves.

Our win against Geelong last year was a monumental effort, and we only just got the choccies. I woke the whole house up when the final siren sounded!
.We're gonna need that same resolve and application again this week to do it again.
Should we manage it, it could really exponentially grow our side's belief heading into the final 3 rounds.

We should, as you say expect our 10 or so walk up starts in any other ckub to lead the way. ..I'm thinking though the acid test falls on the remaining guys to pull their weight, amplify their gane and to take their moments when they come. To that end I'm looking directly at at Mclean, Richards, Lipinski, Vandermeer, Gardner et al.

I'm not a huge believer in stats only as a major driver of performance, but I suggest you take a cursory glance towards some of the stats registered today to see how much of an incomplete performance today's effort was and how much improvement potential across the team we have - particularly in terms of pressure.

Today was good, but there's another level in this team that could easily be unlocked by more intent/ focus on the simple things.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

So if we go down by a couple of goals like we did against Port or a handful like we did against Brisbane does the site go into meltdown again?

Because to be honest the last few weeks have been pretty full on, and even at a point where we were a goal down at half time against a side above us on the ladder today it was starting to turn feral.

So in order to prepare us, what is a reasonable result next week?

I can’t really say it any better than YHF. For me we just need a four quarter effort. We can’t afford those horrible defensive lapses where we’re caught out of position and this will be helped by not blatantly turning the ball over. That first goal to Melbourne today was sadly an all too familiar sight. Our forward pressure is also not where it needs to be. These are all the same old problem areas we’ve been discussing for weeks. We have been getting it better bit by bit the last few weeks which is pleasing. But Geelong are on another level. They’re a well disciplined and coached team and they’ll murder us for 10 minutes of bad football. I like the direction we’re going. With Vanders coming in we look a lot faster suddenly with him, JJ, Richards and Smith. We suddenly look less vanilla. The forward line is still a work in progress but a four quarter effort in defensive transition and work rate would be what I’d like to see. That’s my no1 pet peeve.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I don't think today's game was an example of our worst footy. I get Melbourne didn't make the most of opportunities at times however, if they don't score a goal they get to keep the forward half pressure on as it doesn't go to the centre of the ground for a reset. A reset gives us a chance to actually reset and without seeing it like we did against Brisbane it's hard to know what the outcome would be.

It's actually something I've been thinking about, bad kicking leading to behinds begets more bad kicking leading to behinds. The ball stays in the forward half and the issue compounds largely because congestion and pressure builds. We've been the masters of this in recent years however, today in the third we showed ourselves that if you kick straight you can actually build momentum and that's a massive positive to me (again, see what Brisbane did to us).

I'm really looking forward to hopefully seeing a settled side have a crack at decent opposition after a couple of good weeks. We've had good weeks this year but our side hasn't been settled, and without wanting to sound like Bruce the pervert dickhead I just get a feeling we are primed to hit our straps and run over some opposition.


Hunter embedding himself back into the team is a massive positive, his style versus that of Laitham and Smith outside of the contest gives us good contrast and flexibility. As I've said in another post I reckon seeing these guys move the ball freely and run hard gives JJ some impetus to get in on the act.

I don't disagree much with what you've written. However much of what we served up in the 2nd Qtr was reflective of what has occured when we've lost games based on 10-15 minutes of gobshite football.

Bevo has lamented such periods against Brisbane, Port, and St Kilda.
It didn't cost us today, both because Melbourne were shit and failed to gap us the way the above sides did when we momentarily faltered, and because we adjusted, mitigated the reasons they were getting on top and as you pointed out, and we capitalised when we again wrested control of the game from them in the 3rd.
Really pleased with Bevo's moves at half time switching Bruce and English . Both were stinking it up big big time, and were the weak links in their respective roles that were killing us.
I know some here have fumed at our ruck strategy, but to me it's a very sound response from Bevo.
Timmy stank in the 2nd Qtr, Pruess was serving his mids up on a platter. Bruce was just as useless as a forward target.

Bevo isn't putting Bruce or Dunks (And I'm not responding to you here Jeemak, on this point) in the ruck because it's some sort of masterstroke move, he's doing it because its a weakness in our game.

He knows full well we don't have positional supremacy here and he employs Dunks or Bruce there to reduce the likelihood we get nailed from our weakness. It's good coaching; risk mitigation.

He also knows Tim is a talent and he wants to genuinely grow him, so he can utilise the around the ground competitive advantages he does posess. But when Tim concedes the ruck like he did today, he has to do something, otherwise the game slips away from us like it did against Port and Brisbane.

I think Tim can respond well next week against Geelong. He certainly nailed his moments after half time

We were very good for most parts today, we will need to be better again this Friday.

You're right Jeemak, Hunter is crucial, and a JJ like today is too.
So is accurate goalkicking.

If Tim and Bruce can perform their primary roles this week, as ruck and key forward respectively, we'll be off to a good start, and Dunks too will be the better for it, as it will allow him to contribute in his primary capacity, which only further helps our cause We don't want to employ him as a risk mitigator if we don't have to.

[jeemak]

I can’t really say it any better than YHF. For me we just need a four quarter effort. We can’t afford those horrible defensive lapses where we’re caught out of position and this will be helped by not blatantly turning the ball over. That first goal to Melbourne today was sadly an all too familiar sight. Our forward pressure is also not where it needs to be. These are all the same old problem areas we’ve been discussing for weeks. We have been getting it better bit by bit the last few weeks which is pleasing. But Geelong are on another level. They’re a well disciplined and coached team and they’ll murder us for 10 minutes of bad football. I like the direction we’re going. With Vanders coming in we look a lot faster suddenly with him, JJ, Richards and Smith. We suddenly look less vanilla. The forward line is still a work in progress but a four quarter effort in defensive transition and work rate would be what I’d like to see. That’s my no1 pet peeve.

Thanks.

It's an interesting thing if I'm gauging your thoughts correctly, Geelong needs to pretty much play perfectly to beat us convincingly. Or they need to cover most bases to ensure they're competitive enough to beat us. We on the other hand need to be perfect to compete?

If so I don't reckon that's far off from what we have shown to date, but like you I reckon we're heading into the zone of fixing some of those issues and being harder to play against. The stuff out the back in particular is an organisation issue that is largely dependent on what happens on the ground with the players, intensity around the contest fixes the vulnerabilities we showed against Brisbane in particular for a very short time.

The reality is in my view, we're an inexperienced side batting a bit above average now and aiming to bat higher again and this should be cause for excitement and not the negativity we've all been guilty of displaying over recent weeks. If we hadn't have won the flag in 2016 this team would be causing ripples of excitement through the competition and that's something we need to consider around here.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I'm not a huge believer in stats only as a major driver of performance, but I suggest you take a cursory glance towards some of the stats registered today to see how much of an incomplete performance today's effort was and how much improvement potential across the team we have - particularly in terms of pressure.

Today was good, but there's another level in this team that could easily be unlocked by more intent/ focus on the simple things.

Do not disagree with anything here.
Today's performance is not dissimilar to our games against Port, Saints or Brisbane. In all of them we had one 10 or 15 minute period where we stank, off of the back of either losing ascendancy at the source and/ or unforced errors (including poor goal conversion).

We still had some passengers today. Can't have that against Geelong this week, or against West Coast in 3 weeks for that matter.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

**Disclosure....for my disjointed and verbose posts tonight**
It's been a big day.
5:30 wake up, to get kids ready for my son's under 8.5's footy match for a 9 a start that was 45 min drive away, then the 2nd leg to Gold Coast to watch the Dogs then home, and subsequent consummation of wine..

[jeemak]

Do not disagree with anything here.
Today's performance is not dissimilar to our games against Port, Saints or Brisbane. In all of them we had one 10 or 15 minute period where we stank, off of the back of either losing ascendancy at the source and/ or unforced errors (including poor goal conversion).

We still had some passengers today. Can't have that against Geelong this week, or against West Coast in 3 weeks for that matter.

Well maybe we can.

We beat a team in the eight with those issues, surely we can compete like we have in the last few weeks with those same issues but if we take our chances we might just win.

Against Port we had major lapses compounding missed opportunities, and lost by a couple of goals. We even could have pushed Richmond in the first half if we didn't butcher a couple of clear opportunities to stay in touch.

I guess what I'm getting at is that not everything needs to be perfect and we just need to hang in there against any opposition. We generate so many opportunities as a team game to game, like today in the third if we take them, unlike in the first, we impact the nature of the contest.

[jeemak]

**Disclosure....for my disjointed and verbose posts tonight**
It's been a big day.
5:30 wake up, to get kids ready for my son's under 8.5's footy match for a 9 a start that was 45 min drive away, then the 2nd leg to Gold Coast to watch the Dogs then home, and subsequent consummation of wine..

You're awesome mate. Don't apologise and don't blame the wine.

Did anyone ever ask Chris de Burgh why he made the tune Don't Pay The Ferryman? No they didn't, so if he doesn't have to explain himself you shouldn't have to either.

[jeemak]

You extended your post you cheeky bugger.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Well maybe we can.

We beat a team in the eight with those issues, surely we can compete like we have in the last few weeks with those same issues but if we take our chances we might just win.

Against Port we had major lapses compounding missed opportunities, and lost by a couple of goals. We even could have pushed Richmond in the first half if we didn't butcher a couple of clear opportunities to stay in touch.

I guess what I'm getting at is that not everything needs to be perfect and we just need to hang in there against any opposition. We generate so many opportunities as a team game to game, like today in the third if we take them, unlike in the first, we impact the nature of the contest.

Do not greatly disagree.

But I think it's essential that mistakes we do make are not prolonged.
We can't afford a 10-15 minute lapse this week.
I'm really looking forward to the opportunity this game holds for guys like English, Bruce, Richards, Gardner and McLean.

[jeemak]

You extended your post you cheeky bugger.

I'm glad you did, that was an excellent post mate.

[Danjul]

I'm not deliberately going out of my way Danjul to be a contrarian, but I tend to think we're going to need more than those 10 contributors next week.

We seem to be a team or employ a strategy that requires all 18 to click, or at least not have 3 or 4 blokes not contributing, or making silly unforced errors.
Geelong is going to require a supreme effort from all our boys.


Our win against Geelong last year was a monumental effort, and we only just got the choccies. I woke the whole house up when the final siren sounded!


I had a good seat at the game against Geelong last year and they looked ordinary, with occasional patches which kept them dangerous. But it was a game where we had a balanced team, and occasional errors were not disasters. A lot of Geelong’s play occurred deep on the wing ( in front of where I was sitting). We played more 1 on 1 than usual so they couldn’t control the flow the way we allowed them to in the earlier game. The Dogs tried to control opposition players, not open ground.

I am confident that our best dozen are better than theirs. That’s a good start.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Thanks.

It's an interesting thing if I'm gauging your thoughts correctly, Geelong needs to pretty much play perfectly to beat us convincingly. Or they need to cover most bases to ensure they're competitive enough to beat us. We on the other hand need to be perfect to compete?

If so I don't reckon that's far off from what we have shown to date, but like you I reckon we're heading into the zone of fixing some of those issues and being harder to play against. The stuff out the back in particular is an organisation issue that is largely dependent on what happens on the ground with the players, intensity around the contest fixes the vulnerabilities we showed against Brisbane in particular for a very short time.

The reality is in my view, we're an inexperienced side batting a bit above average now and aiming to bat higher again and this should be cause for excitement and not the negativity we've all been guilty of displaying over recent weeks. If we hadn't have won the flag in 2016 this team would be causing ripples of excitement through the competition and that's something we need to consider around here.

No we certainly don’t need to be perfect to compete. But we need to play with a higher intensity for longer periods than Geelong due to:
- our game style with revolves around numbers behind the ball that gets out of a contest through multiple handballs (often attracting pressure and resulting in the sky bomb inside 50)
- our poor inside 50 cohesion
- our poor foot skills

Ultimately it’s simply just minimising the periods where our intensity/pressure is nowhere to be seen. I get we’re inexperienced but I don’t take that as an excuse to slack off every game for a quarter. We’ve seen it too frequently this season and it’s not like it’s the first season we’ve been doing it. The important thing is to minimise the damage when things aren’t going our way. Because things won’t go our way for 4 quarters a game. But at the moment when things aren’t going our way, we’re getting obliterated with zero defence when we don’t have the ball. We did a better job of that yesterday which was pleasing but Melbourne did butcher a lot of opportunités so we’ve still got some ways to go. As others have said, we’re not looking for perfection but we all want to see signs of improvement. The frustration comes when you see the same things occur over and over again to the point where you wonder if the club is even aware of the problems - stupid to think I know but how many times can you watch a team get caught out the back or the oppositions midfield waltz around without even the slightest attempt to tackle?

The last two weeks have been a positive sign that improvement is coming. I suppose this week it’ll be a good opportunity to put it to the test against the competitions best. We stank it up real bad for 15 minutes each against Brisbane and port and that was all that was needed to convincingly put us away. I’d like to see us minimise those periods against the cats but also minimise the damage during those periods. Because I look at our list compared to Geelongs and, even though I’m biased, I don’t think we’re much worse on paper. We can go with them, we just need discipline and intensity for sustained periods.