3 things you have learned - RD 13 v Melbourne 2020

[GVGjr]

We would all love to hear the 3 things you have learned from today's pivotal game against Melbourne

If they can be 3 new things, that would be even better

As always, Go Dogs

[westbulldog]

1. The ruck situation needs to be resolved.
2. Libbas value in close quarters is immense.
3. Mitch Wallis takes as much pride in the jumper as anyone.

[Mutz]

1. Bruce can be competitive in the ruck and around the ground (but I'd love to see Sweet get a go).
2. JJ can still run and deliver if he has confidence.
3. Back-line communicates well with each other (and Gardner finding his place).

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Wallis has become the player we hoped he would when recruited.
Wallis and Libba are a building force, even after Libba's knee reco's.
We are still experimenting yet building potency.
AFLlive pass is worth it, just ignore the commentary.

[angelopetraglia]

Wallis has become the player we hoped he would when recruited.
Wallis and Libba are a building force, even after Libba's knee reco's.
We are still experimenting yet building potency.
AFLlive pass is worth it, just ignore the commentary.

Wallis and Libba so important. They give us that additional toughness. They were missed so much in that final Vs GWS last year. I don’t think we would have been as easily intimidated if they both played. Toby would have had to contend with Libba for a start for the crap he pulled.

[Sedat]

Wally has basically rendered Lloyd and Dale surplus to requirements. Hibberd is an excellent medium sized defender who would have eaten either of those two players for breakfast.

[ratsmac]

3. Early in the season Bontempelli looked like the captaincy might be weighing him down and trying to bring in others than worrying about his own game. I think he has realised that playing his own game brings the others in the game. What a player he is!

2. Hunter and his work rate has been such and important cog missing in our game plan. His efforts to get up and down the ground getting into position to be the outlet were top class. One of if not the best winger in the comp

3. Wallis' hands are so sticky. To reinvent himself as a medium forward shows how professional he is. It is similar as M Boyd becoming an All Australian defender

[bornadog]

3. Early in the season Bontempelli looked like the captaincy might be weighing him down and trying to bring in others than worrying about his own game. I think he has realised that playing his own game brings the others in the game. What a player he is!

2. Hunter and his work rate has been such and important cog missing in our game plan. His efforts to get up and down the ground getting into position to be the outlet were top class. One of if not the best winger in the comp

3. Wallis' hands are so sticky. To reinvent himself as a medium forward shows how professional he is. It is similar as M Boyd becoming an All Australian defender

Great learnings

[AshMac]

1. Mitch Wallis has become our Toby Greene minus the dickhead factor

2. Time slows down when Bailey Williams gets hold of the footy. It’s a characteristic in only elite players and whilst there is a way to go To demonstrate prolonged consistency I’m as excited about him as ever

3. Some proper gameday coaching on display today. That and the MC just making safe choices are great to see

[bornadog]

1. Makes a difference when you can field almost your best 22 with some experience
2. Mitch Wallis should be VC
3. The use of English is still puzzling

[EasternWest]

Hibberd is an excellent medium sized defender who would have eaten either of those two players for breakfast.

This bears repeating.


1. Mitch Wallis has become our Toby Greene

Let's not get carried away.

[macca]

Wally has basically rendered Lloyd and Dale surplus to requirements. Hibberd is an excellent medium sized defender who would have eaten either of those two players for breakfast.

the mark in the last quarter against hibberd was excellent. Surprised how strong he is, and when his fist pump you see his upper body torso. Just wondered if he added a few more forecful ponds of muscle /strength, he would be hard to match one on one.

His marking has been excellent this year.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

1. Gardner took some steps forward today. I'm not saying he's the 2nd coming of Brian Lake, but he held his own defensively ( with a couple of wobbly moments) but stuck at it, and was involved in a couple of creative pieces of play when he pushed up to the HBF with ball in hand. He made the right decisions and executed, where previously he has fluffed his lines.

2. Vandermeer - he's still got a lot of wrinkles to iron out, but there are a lot of things to like about him that suggests he has a long term future ahead of him if he continues to progress.

3. Naughton gets doughnuts from the umps. There were at least two occasions where he was being blatantly held onto when the ball was coming to him, when he was just 15-20 metres out. If he was Josh Kennedy, Tom Hawkins or Charlie Dixon he'd get the frees.

[jeemak]

3. Naughton gets doughnuts from the umps. There were at least two occasions where he was being blatantly held onto when the ball was coming to him, when he was just 15-20 metres out. If he was Josh Kennedy, Tom Hawkins or Charlie Dixon he'd get the frees.

Don't forget Eric Hipwood.

[Vred]

1. I echo the above “Mitch for VC”
2. I also echo the “Mitch is a better Toby Green”
3. Libbbbba

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Don't forget Eric Hipwood.

I must've blocked that out. Had a front row seat to that garbage.

[Mantis]

1/ Josh Dunkley was just about our best player in late 2019 before he copped a cowardly shot by the ‘anti-wanker’, but he’s a passenger in this role.

2/ We defend the fast break as bad as anyone.

3/ Our ball use needs to sharpen up as we won’t get it that easy in our next 2 games.

[ledge]

1/ Josh Dunkley was just about our best player in late 2019 before he copped a cowardly shot by the ‘anti-wanker’, but he’s a passenger in this role.

2/ We defend the fast break as bad as anyone.

3/ Our ball use needs to sharpen up as we won’t get it that easy in our next 2 games.

Wow a win and you found 3 negatives !

[1eyedog]

Wow a win and you found 3 negatives !

We must always seek to improve.

[comrade]

We must always seek to improve.

Yep, I agree and this trend towards calling out and policing anything that isn't completely positive is a bit tedious.

Any time the coaching group is questioned or a weakness is highlighted, there is an effort to shut it down due to it being 'speculation' or it being 'negative'.

In the last day, I've seen WOOF called feral and likened to Mad Max (which I don't really get but assume it's meant to be a slight). Crazy.

[Remi Moses]

Wow a win and you found 3 negatives !

Quite staggering , but point 2 is spot on
1) We need to defend f 50 opposition breaks better ( defend the ground better ) Scott will be all over that
2) The move of Bruce into the ruck was pivotal
3) Petracca’s blind overhead handball . Sums up Melbourne always getting ahead of itself

[Remi Moses]

Yep, I agree and this trend towards calling out and policing anything that isn't completely positive is a bit tedious.

Any time the coaching group is questioned or a weakness is highlighted, there is an effort to shut it down due to it being 'speculation' or it being 'negative'.

In the last day, I've seen WOOF called feral and likened to Mad Max (which I don't really get but assume it's meant to be a slight). Crazy.

That’s fine , but the continual and constant negative posting gives me the shits .
How could someone not find one positive after yesterday ? Everyone’s entitled to their thoughts , but they’re also able to be held to account for them as well . Then there’s the “no appearance “ after a win , but everywhere after a loss

[Remi Moses]

1/ Josh Dunkley was just about our best player in late 2019 before he copped a cowardly shot by the ‘anti-wanker’, but he’s a passenger in this role.

2/ We defend the fast break as bad as anyone.

3/ Our ball use needs to sharpen up as we won’t get it that easy in our next 2 games.

Don’t think the ball use had something to do with the gale that was blowing ?

[comrade]

That’s fine , but the continual and constant negative posting gives me the shits .
How could someone not find one positive after yesterday ? Everyone’s entitled to their thoughts , but they’re also able to be held to account for them as well . Then there’s the “no appearance “ after a win , but everywhere after a loss

This thread title is '3 things you have learned' not '3 positives to take from the game'. If you want a unerringly positive thread for each game, create one and anyone who wants to put on the rose coloured glasses can go hammer and tong.

[Grantysghost]

1. Ruck is an issue. If Gawn was playing yesterday I'm not sure we would've been singing the praises of Bruce into the ruck. I'm not sure how putting a decent midfielder in there to cop the knees and elbows also is a good thing for his midfield development. Credit to Dunks he fought well. But we need a better plan b if English isn't working.

2. Vandermeer has got something special. An X factor, mind and body willing to take the game on and create. Although his mind did get ahead of his body with that double goose step to nowhere on the wing (Still loved it).

3. I've never seen a better field kick than our Caleb.

[Remi Moses]

This thread title is '3 things you have learned' not '3 positives to take from the game'. If you want a unerringly positive thread for each game, create one and anyone who wants to put on the rose coloured glasses can go hammer and tong.

You miss the point
Sadly resembling social media on here

[comrade]

You miss the point
Sadly resembling social media on here

So I hear, thankfully we have forum police on hand to keep things in check.

[Happy Days]

1. Turns out three wins over bottom 4 teams doesn't undo a couple of decades of a culture of purposeful losing and conditional performance. Also, they brought in Alan Richardson? Has nobody told them?

2. If we absolutely must play Bruce then our best forward line probably only features one of Wallis, Dale and Lloyd. So to Bailey and Sam thank you for your service.

3. Having watched a game and even played in one or two before I knew the effect of wind on kicks, but had no idea how much it negates players' ability to handballs to teammates ~2-3m away some of the time. So crazy!

[Mantis]

Wow a win and you found 3 negatives !

I thought I was allowed to post my opinions here?

[Remi Moses]

So I hear, thankfully we have forum police on hand to keep things in check.
Don’t know what your point is
I’ll jog on

[Happy Days]

2/ We defend the fast break as bad as anyone.



I don't know about this. Their first goal of the game (the most glaring example) looked terrible admittedly but was a consequence of Keath leaving his man to affect a contest (which he won), only to have the receivers butcher the handball out. I don't think their structural faults per se and are more a result of how we defend.

This isn't 15 guys diving head-first in at the ball leaving no one to defend like it was under McCartney. The trade off of our intercept and drive off half back (which were both awesome yesterday) is worth the 1-2 terrible looking goals each week.

[Mantis]

That’s fine , but the continual and constant negative posting gives me the shits .
How could someone not find one positive after yesterday ? Everyone’s entitled to their thoughts , but they’re also able to be held to account for them as well . Then there’s the “no appearance “ after a win , but everywhere after a loss

If the ‘ could not find one positive’ is directed at me then I’ll list 5 for you to appease the cheerleaders on here:

1/ Bailey Williams had another fine game. Hard & tough when he needs to be, but using the ball extremely well... having a great season.

2/ The Bont is back to his best.. leading the way for the rest to follow.

3/ Mitch Wallis is making his opportunities count and winning crucial 1 on 1’s.

4/ Libba is back to his clearance winning best.

5/ Vandermeer has been a real find this year. Still needs to work the percentages on when to take a player on, but he’s a key member of the team.

And one more for good luck - that was the type of game we need from JJ. His ability to break the lines was exceptional and he defended well we needed him to.

[Remi Moses]

If the ‘ could not find one positive’ is directed at me then I’ll list 5 for you to appease the cheerleaders on here:

1/ Bailey Williams had another fine game. Hard & tough when he needs to be, but using the ball extremely well... having a great season.

2/ The Bont is back to his best.. leading the way for the rest to follow.

3/ Mitch Wallis is making his opportunities count and winning crucial 1 on 1’s.

4/ Libba is back to his clearance winning best.

5/ Vandermeer has been a real find this year. Still needs to work the percentages on when to take a player on, but he’s a key member of the team.

And one more for good luck - that was the type of game we need from JJ. His ability to break the lines was exceptional and he defended well we needed him to.

Fair enough . Calling someone out for finding 3 negative things after an actual win isn’t cheerleading
They’re your three things and next time I’ll shut up .

[Remi Moses]

If the ‘ could not find one positive’ is directed at me then I’ll list 5 for you to appease the cheerleaders on here:

1/ Bailey Williams had another fine game. Hard & tough when he needs to be, but using the ball extremely well... having a great season.

2/ The Bont is back to his best.. leading the way for the rest to follow.

3/ Mitch Wallis is making his opportunities count and winning crucial 1 on 1’s.

4/ Libba is back to his clearance winning best.

5/ Vandermeer has been a real find this year. Still needs to work the percentages on when to take a player on, but he’s a key member of the team.

And one more for good luck - that was the type of game we need from JJ. His ability to break the lines was exceptional and he defended well we needed him to.

That’s actually 5 ! I’m telling the police on here

[hujsh]

Yep, I agree and this trend towards calling out and policing anything that isn't completely positive is a bit tedious.

Any time the coaching group is questioned or a weakness is highlighted, there is an effort to shut it down due to it being 'speculation' or it being 'negative'.

In the last day, I've seen WOOF called feral and likened to Mad Max (which I don't really get but assume it's meant to be a slight). Crazy.

Maybe if the criticisms were actually based on something specific or directed at particular individuals that wouldn't be the case.

Easy one would be that you hear constant laments that our defenders are caught out of position. Well who's our defensive line coach? What has he coached previously? How did that line perform under him? You know, something that can actually be analysed and discussed.

Personally I just stay away from WOOF for a couple of days after most losses as I find the doom and gloom a bit over the top.

Also I took no issue with Mantis' post.

[Ozza]

Wally has basically rendered Lloyd and Dale surplus to requirements. Hibberd is an excellent medium sized defender who would have eaten either of those two players for breakfast.

Was interesting and unusual to see Hibberd so unsure of himself in the contests with Wallis as the game went on. Not the first defender who has become pretty twitchy when isolated with Wally. In particularly in the contest in the third quarter when English marked over both of them, if Tim didn't mark, Wal gets the free anyway as Hibberd was all at see and had arms all around Wally, including getting him high.

If I was an opposition coach, I'd be putting a tall defender on Wally and suspect he will get one against the cats this week.

[Happy Days]

Was interesting and unusual to see Hibberd so unsure of himself in the contests with Wallis as the game went on. Not the first defender who has become pretty twitchy when isolated with Wally. In particularly in the contest in the third quarter when English marked over both of them, if Tim didn't mark, Wal gets the free anyway as Hibberd was all at see and had arms all around Wally, including getting him high.

If I was an opposition coach, I'd be putting a tall defender on Wally and suspect he will get one against the cats this week.

Agree with that and it's kind of crazy that they keep sending small/mids to him. Of all of his strengths he isn't going to burn anyone with speed.

[Ozza]

1. Ruck is an issue. If Gawn was playing yesterday I'm not sure we would've been singing the praises of Bruce into the ruck. I'm not sure how putting a decent midfielder in there to cop the knees and elbows also is a good thing for his midfield development. Credit to Dunks he fought well. But we need a better plan b if English isn't working.

2. Vandermeer has got something special. An X factor, mind and body willing to take the game on and create. Although his mind did get ahead of his body with that double goose step to nowhere on the wing (Still loved it).

3. I've never seen a better field kick than our Caleb.

The Vandermeer point reminded me....I loved the piece of paly which led to his goal. Bont 50m kick to a leading Naughton - yes it got spoiled by May - but Naughton brought it down front and centre to where Mitch Wallis was perfectly placed to catch it cleanly and then a perfect chip kick to Vanders who was streaming forward. It was the perfect-imperfect play, because whilst we didn't 100% connect all the way through, everyone was doing what they should be doing.

Naughton had a touch day vs May, but continued to present and compete and helped create opportunities in other ways....sometimes just allowing Mitch to be given the space.

[Bulldog Joe]

The Vandermeer point reminded me....I loved the piece of paly which led to his goal. Bont 50m kick to a leading Naughton - yes it got spoiled by May - but Naughton brought it down front and centre to where Mitch Wallis was perfectly placed to catch it cleanly and then a perfect chip kick to Vanders who was streaming forward. It was the perfect-imperfect play, because whilst we didn't 100% connect all the way through, everyone was doing what they should be doing.

Naughton had a touch day vs May, but continued to present and compete and helped create opportunities in other ways....sometimes just allowing Mitch to be given the space.

I was really impressed with Naughton contributing on what many would consider a bad day. Didn't he handball to Bont for the 1st goal after half time?

[Grantysghost]

The Vandermeer point reminded me....I loved the piece of paly which led to his goal. Bont 50m kick to a leading Naughton - yes it got spoiled by May - but Naughton brought it down front and centre to where Mitch Wallis was perfectly placed to catch it cleanly and then a perfect chip kick to Vanders who was streaming forward. It was the perfect-imperfect play, because whilst we didn't 100% connect all the way through, everyone was doing what they should be doing.

Naughton had a touch day vs May, but continued to present and compete and helped create opportunities in other ways....sometimes just allowing Mitch to be given the space.

So true. As we all know that big key forward is valuable not only for the big mark which gives control either down the line or closer for a shot at goal, it’s presenting to the contest consistently to the script so all of the other players are activated in that play. Honouring a lead also opens up all that space in behind and sucks out the best defender, in this case May leaving room for Vanders to run into .
Everyone singing from the same hymn book, especially those with “footy smarts”. Also why turnovers hurt so badly and hitting those kicks so important along with defensive pressure attempting to disrupt them.
I just watched the replay you mentioned and it’s exactly as you described. I really hope Naughton and Bruce can work it out together, those two flying would be amazing for our team.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Maybe if the criticisms were actually based on something specific or directed at particular individuals that wouldn't be the case.

Easy one would be that you hear constant laments that our defenders are caught out of position. Well who's our defensive line coach? What has he coached previously? How did that line perform under him? You know, something that can actually be analysed and discussed.

Personally I just stay away from WOOF for a couple of days after most losses as I find the doom and gloom a bit over the top.

Also I took no issue with Mantis' post.
Did you not see the response to the criticism of Gowers and Gardner? ;)

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Maybe if the criticisms were actually based on something specific or directed at particular individuals that wouldn't be the case.

Easy one would be that you hear constant laments that our defenders are caught out of position. Well who's our defensive line coach? What has he coached previously? How did that line perform under him? You know, something that can actually be analysed and discussed.

Personally I just stay away from WOOF for a couple of days after most losses as I find the doom and gloom a bit over the top.

Also I took no issue with Mantis' post.
I'd be horrified if our defensive positioning was the fault of our defensive line coach.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I love players like Vanders. Has a crack all the time, doesn't drop his head. You can never question his endeavour. The bonus is that he's a player who seems to get into the right positions more often than not. Perhaps similar to how Butler has played this season at the saints. He just seems to be in the right spot at the right time. Enourmous potential. But the best thing he has added to the side is the combined pace of the team. We always had JJ and Richards but I feel with adding Vanders we've become collectively faster. Just having that 3rd (or 4th with Smith) speedster gives all of them more opportunity to use their legs.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Just on Richards, where did he play on the weekend? Was he moved back to the wing with JJ back? I didn't see much of him but I thought he made some important contributions without actually getting much of the ball himself.

[AshMac]

I was really impressed with Naughton contributing on what many would consider a bad day. Didn't he handball to Bont for the 1st goal after half time?

Not sure - he definitely handballed to Wally for his third goal. I love what I’m seeing from Naughton. He isn’t taking marks every week and kicking goals - but his second efforts and off ball movements are outstanding. He’s hungry and agressive and I love it.

I did think he was school by Steven May in aerial contents which is a testament to May. As he builds strength he’ll just get better at marks against a player that strong and big.

[comrade]

Not sure - he definitely handballed to Wally for his third goal. I love what I’m seeing from Naughton. He isn’t taking marks every week and kicking goals - but his second efforts and off ball movements are outstanding. He’s hungry and agressive and I love it.

I did think he was school by Steven May in aerial contents which is a testament to May. As he builds strength he’ll just get better at marks against a player that strong and big.

I think it was an easier day for a defender than a big key forward, but May was definitely a class above. He's coming good for the Demons after a pretty average start, I'm hoping we see a similar rise with Bruce.

[AshMac]

I think it was an easier day for a defender than a big key forward, but May was definitely a class above. He's coming good for the Demons after a pretty average start, I'm hoping we see a similar rise with Bruce.

Yeh agree - can’t underestimate the impact of the wind on judging the flight of the ball.