List Management for 2020/21

[Bulldog4life]

Brodie is a Tassie boy and his west connections are absolutely Footscray. His dad played a few games at Essendon, before coming to Tassie.

Brodie actually lives in Footscray area.

I remember his dad Jack. Fiery red headed player.

[Grantysghost]

Mihocek is a product of expansion, he probably doesn't get a gig as a forward in other generations. Hes an average player at best without any redeeming qualities of note. Average I mean just that I know it has negative connotations but I mean hes just bog standard.
Tries hard, drops marks in the goal square. That type of guy.
Stephenson I would take as he has some real points of difference, pending the d1ckhead test or our ability to manage that type of personality.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Mihocek is a product of expansion, he probably doesn't get a gig as a forward in other generations. Hes an average player at best without any redeeming qualities of note. Average I mean just that I know it has negative connotations but I mean hes just bog standard.
Tries hard, drops marks in the goal square. That type of guy.
Stephenson I would take as he has some real points of difference, pending the d1ckhead test or our ability to manage that type of personality.

While I know what you mean and where you're coming from, I think you're selling him short. He's basically a bigger version of Wallis; works very hard, hard at the contest/man, good in one on ones, solid skills without being spectacular.

He'd easily get a game with us every week.

[EasternWest]

I know we like to remind ourselves we scored the mullet with the pick Port wanted, but Wingard is still a pretty handy player who'd be best 22 with us.

Doubt Hawthorn will sell, and we might be burnt given our social media team went as far as posting we'd like to trade for him (which still blows my mind given what transpired) but if available at the right price....

Hard pass for me.

[kruder]

I'd have a crack at Narkle now that Toby is set to miss 2021. He is similar to Toby in the sense can play midfield minutes by being good at winning it inside and getting it to outside in a singular motion, but looks like he has an extra yard of pace. Bevo will like the flexibility to play him forward and spend time in the midfield.

I'm guessing West is well positioned to play this role, but If we think Narkle can be a bona fide best 22 we should be having a look.

[Mofra]

Given we haven't been able to attract any indigenous players at the trade table and we're open about wanting a small pressure forward, surely we take one or two late in the draft/at the rookie draft?
I know we've been linked to Lonie and Bedford but cost vs output may not work in our favour if other clubs are willing to let them go.

It's not like a Lloyd situation where he was squeezed out of a premiership side, or a Hamling who was competing with super-talented teammates.

[1eyedog]

While I know what you mean and where you're coming from, I think you're selling him short. He's basically a bigger version of Wallis; works very hard, hard at the contest/man, good in one on ones, solid skills without being spectacular.

He'd easily get a game with us every week.

Agreed I'm not adverse to looking at him. Is far better than others are giving him credit for and while I think he needs to play in a good team to really play to his strengths there's no doubting his commitment to the contest and his ability to play his role. He looks good up the field and I see him taking the Lloyd / Dale role high lead up forward so feel there may be an opportunity for him.

This is the type of role I'd like to see Schache perform but that doesn't look like its going to eventuate.

[The Pie Man]

Given we haven't been able to attract any indigenous players at the trade table and we're open about wanting a small pressure forward, surely we take one or two late in the draft/at the rookie draft?
I know we've been linked to Lonie and Bedford but cost vs output may not work in our favour if other clubs are willing to let them go.

It's not like a Lloyd situation where he was squeezed out of a premiership side, or a Hamling who was competing with super-talented teammates.

Have we been linked with Bedford? Haven’t seen anything, wouldn’t mind him though

[Topdog]

Mihocek is a product of expansion, he probably doesn't get a gig as a forward in other generations. Hes an average player at best without any redeeming qualities of note. Average I mean just that I know it has negative connotations but I mean hes just bog standard.
Tries hard, drops marks in the goal square. That type of guy.
Stephenson I would take as he has some real points of difference, pending the d1ckhead test or our ability to manage that type of personality.

29, 36 and 18 (so far) is a real solid and consistent return.

You are selling him real short. He is a good competitor and a tough matchup for teams 2nd/3rd defender.

He isn't a superstar and won't get you 5 or 6 goal match winning performances but he is super consistent.

[Mofra]

Have we been linked with Bedford? Haven’t seen anything, wouldn’t mind him though
There was a couple of articles mentioning we're targetting small pressure forwards, and Lonie and Bedford were the two names given.
I'm a little 'meh' on both but Weightman doesn't seem to play like a small crumbing forward and Cavarra is a maybe at best.

[ledge]

There was a couple of articles mentioning we're targetting small pressure forwards, and Lonie and Bedford were the two names given.
I'm a little 'meh' on both but Weightman doesn't seem to play like a small crumbing forward and Cavarra is a maybe at best.

I think Weightman is , in the small sample we have of him playing AFL did you see his miraculous goal out of a pack ?
I’m sure he will be that but just isn’t big enough yet.
Of course he will play other positions too because that’s the Beveridge way.

[Mofra]

I think Weightman is , in the small sample we have of him playing AFL did you see his miraculous goal out of a pack ?
I’m sure he will be that but just isn’t big enough yet.
Of course he will play other positions too because that’s the Beveridge way.
A sample size of one doesn't compare favourably to his junior career. He's more a Jamie Elliott type than a crumbing forward. The club has all but admitted as much by targeting a crumbing forward in this upcoming trade period.

[comrade]

A sample size of one doesn't compare favourably to his junior career. He's more a Jamie Elliott type than a crumbing forward. The club has all but admitted as much by targeting a crumbing forward in this upcoming trade period.

Makes the Weightman draft selecton a touch questionable, as I felt at the time we went for a needs type pick so we went with the best small forward available over purely best available .

Not writing him off but if he doesn't have the crumbing, tackling string to his bow, is he really adding anything more to our list than Lloyd, Dale, Greene, Wallis etc?

[bornadog]

Makes the Weightman draft selecton a touch questionable, as I felt at the time we went for a needs type pick so we went with the best small forward available over purely best available .

Not writing him off but if he doesn't have the crumbing, tackling string to his bow, is he really adding anything more to our list than Lloyd, Dale, Greene, Wallis etc?

Not sure who we could have picked after Weightman. Maybe Georgiadis?

[comrade]

Not sure who we could have picked after Weightman. Maybe Georgiadis?

Obviously too early to make a call on Weightman and anyone else in that draft (besides Rowell who is guaranteed to play 250+ games), but Georgiadis is looking the goods, and I think Kemp will also be a quality footballer.

[mjp]

Makes the Weightman draft selecton a touch questionable...

A TOUCH?

lol.

[Happy Days]

A TOUCH?

lol.

Yeah gotta admit I haven't really been stoked with what I've seen.

[Mofra]

Not sure who we could have picked after Weightman. Maybe Georgiadis?
I wanted Kemp.
IIRC we were linked to Bergman (in the media) who went just before Flea.

The again I wanted Cahill as a late pick or Josh Honey (Jets boy) as a pressure forward.

[hujsh]

What has happened with Weightman. Feel like I haven't even seen his name in the scratch match reports in ages. Is he going that bad he can't manage a goal?

[mjp]

What has happened with Weightman. Feel like I haven't even seen his name in the scratch match reports in ages. Is he going that bad he can't manage a goal?

I don't think it's that.

He's just a kid who isn't anywhere close to being ready. From what I understand his personality is such that he is going to 'get there' but there is no doubt we targeted him as a goalkicker...Not really sure of the plan to be honest but I don't think you could mount an argument on draft day that he was best available and - if you had - that would have been dismissed based on the evidence of the season that has followed.

That said - Melbourne genuinely plucked Pickett (who we were also supposed to be after) from a similarly 'low' base and he has shown some glimpses...I don't know - you have to swing for the fences I guess. I just didn't quite understand the plan with the Weightman selection and I understand it less now. Then again, I liked the Cavarra selection and he has looked miles off it so what do I even know?

[jeemak]

I know this is just a bit of speculation but if so over the years Collingwood have managed these sort of indiscretions better than most
Do we have an appetite to take on someone who 'might' be difficult?

Managed it as in gotten away with it due to their media and commercial profile?

[jeemak]

I reckon he would be our second best forward, only behind Naughton. He's not a superstar but average is underselling him for mine.

He would be our second best forward until we got a hold of him!

[jeemak]

I don't think it's that.

He's just a kid who isn't anywhere close to being ready. From what I understand his personality is such that he is going to 'get there' but there is no doubt we targeted him as a goalkicker...Not really sure of the plan to be honest but I don't think you could mount an argument on draft day that he was best available and - if you had - that would have been dismissed based on the evidence of the season that has followed.

That said - Melbourne genuinely plucked Pickett (who we were also supposed to be after) from a similarly 'low' base and he has shown some glimpses...I don't know - you have to swing for the fences I guess. I just didn't quite understand the plan with the Weightman selection and I understand it less now. Then again, I liked the Cavarra selection and he has looked miles off it so what do I even know?

Bont says hi!

Weightman seemed like a bit of an overreach, though at that section of a compromised draft it gets pretty blurry. We tried to address a need and our most favoured pick was taken before we got to call a name. I wanted the fat guy from SA...…….how's he going?

[azabob]

Bont says hi!

Weightman seemed like a bit of an overreach, though at that section of a compromised draft it gets pretty blurry. We tried to address a need and our most favoured pick was taken before we got to call a name. I wanted the fat guy from SA...…….how's he going?

Foggerty? Still fat and in and out of the Crows team... you guessed it.... due to work ethic.

On Weightman I actually said very early in this very thread I would be open to trading him now. It would be a risk as development of first year players surely has to be impacted due to the lack of VFL footy and everything else that has gone on in 2020.

[Mofra]

Foggerty? Still fat and in and out of the Crows team... you guessed it.... due to work ethic.

On Weightman I actually said very early in this very thread I would be open to trading him now. It would be a risk as development of first year players surely has to be impacted due to the lack of VFL footy and everything else that has gone on in 2020.
I'd give the kid a chance, but I don't think he'll play like a first rounder i that makes sense.
If he can develop into a half-decent "short" medium forward, I'd take that. A Dickson/Lloyd type with a similar ceiling.
He just doesn't scream a small evasive crumbing type we need, hence our search at this year's trade period.

[azabob]

I'd give the kid a chance, but I don't think he'll play like a first rounder i that makes sense.
If he can develop into a half-decent "short" medium forward, I'd take that. A Dickson/Lloyd type with a similar ceiling.
He just doesn't scream a small evasive crumbing type we need, hence our search at this year's trade period.

If he averages a goal a game over a 150+ game career it will be a great pick.

I agree we should keep him, as 2020 is a dead year in terms of development.

[Happy Days]

Foggerty? Still fat and in and out of the Crows team... you guessed it.... due to work ethic.

On Weightman I actually said very early in this very thread I would be open to trading him now. It would be a risk as development of first year players surely has to be impacted due to the lack of VFL footy and everything else that has gone on in 2020.

He’s talking about Gould, who I’m pretty sure is legit the only player on their whole list not to crack it for a game this year.

[The Pie Man]

I don't think it's that.

He's just a kid who isn't anywhere close to being ready. From what I understand his personality is such that he is going to 'get there' but there is no doubt we targeted him as a goalkicker...Not really sure of the plan to be honest but I don't think you could mount an argument on draft day that he was best available and - if you had - that would have been dismissed based on the evidence of the season that has followed.

That said - Melbourne genuinely plucked Pickett (who we were also supposed to be after) from a similarly 'low' base and he has shown some glimpses...I don't know - you have to swing for the fences I guess. I just didn't quite understand the plan with the Weightman selection and I understand it less now. Then again, I liked the Cavarra selection and he has looked miles off it so what do I even know?

Until recently I would’ve agreed re: Cav, but I thought he was stiff to get dropped when he did. If he was given the run that Gardner has been, I suspect you might see similar results.

Worth persevering with or have you seen enough?

[Bulldog4life]

If my memory serves me correct Pickett was our first choice and Weightman was next. To be fair on the kid this has been a rotten season to come into a club for any young player. He showed in a few glimpses that there is definitely something there to work on. He shouldn't even be on our radar to trade him.

[Mofra]

I do have reservations about our whole draft last year. Weightman seemed a 'reach' while Butler is a decent kid, but if we are reaching for position in the first round but taking the best available in the last round that seems arse-backwards to me.

[Grantysghost]

I don't think it's that.

He's just a kid who isn't anywhere close to being ready. From what I understand his personality is such that he is going to 'get there' but there is no doubt we targeted him as a goalkicker...Not really sure of the plan to be honest but I don't think you could mount an argument on draft day that he was best available and - if you had - that would have been dismissed based on the evidence of the season that has followed.

That said - Melbourne genuinely plucked Pickett (who we were also supposed to be after) from a similarly 'low' base and he has shown some glimpses...I don't know - you have to swing for the fences I guess. I just didn't quite understand the plan with the Weightman selection and I understand it less now. Then again, I liked the Cavarra selection and he has looked miles off it so what do I even know?

My memory serves that Melbourne and a few others were into Weightman as well, he did pretty well at the champs I think he booted 10 goals or something. I'm not sure where the negativity is coming from, what I've seen so far he looks to have the toolset of a small forward if we were recruiting for type. If it's regarding what we could have got, well after one year it's a little premature although I trust those with more knowledge than me. If I had to choose again now, definitely would go with Georgiades but ask me again at the end of the next 2 or 3 years :cool:

[mjp]

Until recently I would’ve agreed re: Cav, but I thought he was stiff to get dropped when he did. If he was given the run that Gardner has been, I suspect you might see similar results.

Worth persevering with or have you seen enough?

I know Cavarra kicked a couple of goals in his last game but I didn't think he was great in terms of effort/impact around the drop of the ball. Yes - one of those goals came from a skilful mark...but to me:
1/. He shouldn't have been the one marking it.
2/. When goals > tackles as a small forward you have your focus a little backwards...goals should be the result of pressure, not the result of flukey marks.

I think he would be unlucky to be delisted but I can understand why the coaches have been reluctant to play him.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I think it's pretty clear none of the small forwards on our list are what we currently need in the forward line. That is, tackling pressure and crumbing ability with that quick sense for goal. All our small forwards, whilst still able to provide value, are more marking forwards. This is what annoys me about us being linked to Lonie. He's just another small marking forward.

[mjp]

If I had to choose again now, definitely would go with Georgiades but ask me again at the end of the next 2 or 3 years :cool:

But...Georgiades isn't a small forward either.

This is what I don't get sometimes...why would we want Georgiades if we have Schache, Dale, Lloyd, Dickson and - I guess - Wallis?

We can't play them all. If we recruit Georgiades, well, clear out those in front of him. I guess that's why I was frustrated with the Garcia selection - if we want Garcia, then why exactly are we keeping Porter?

Weightman is fine but he is not really a small forward...so what actually IS he? When we have the answer to that question then we will know whether he is going to be a player or not. My negativity is not aimed at the kid - I was frustrated at draft time that we spent a first round pick at a critical time in our development on a player with no clear skillset and - more importantly - no clear role at senior level.

As I said in the piece you quoted - apparently he has a good attitude and mindset so will get there in the end...I just think he should have been a rookie selection and not a first round pick.

[Mofra]

We can't play them all. If we recruit Georgiades, well, clear out those in front of him. I guess that's why I was frustrated with the Garcia selection - if we want Garcia, then why exactly are we keeping Porter?
Was it mentioned somewhere we see him as being able to play as a small defender?

That makes it a really weird draft - we said we took Butler (who played HB in his draft year) with the idea of developing him on the wing, and that he wasn't being played on the wing because he was pushed out by others.
Cody as a small pressure/crumbing forward when he played more like a marking forward
Garcia as a (?) utility when he was playing midfield.

I'm kind of glad we have NGA/FS kids this year so we can plan our trade period knowing exactly who we are getting on draft day.

[comrade]

Saw somewhere online that Jackson Trengove named Garcia as the gun young player on our list to watch when asked during a Q&A.

[Grantysghost]

But...Georgiades isn't a small forward either.

Weightman is fine but he is not really a small forward...so what actually IS he? .

Fair point re Georgiades he is more mid sized isn't he and can play tall with that marking ability. I guess my philosophy is you recruit for type but if there's a better player available that takes precedence.

Why do you think Weightman is not a small forward? Be interested to hear from your perspective. I'm thinking he ticks the boxes, but I have only seen him in a few highlights clips and the couple of games he's played so far.

On the topic of small forwards. JJ anyone? Last week I thought he changed the dynamic of our attack dramatically from any other time this year. Real threat when the ball was in there, on the ground or in the air. Maybe his tackle pressure is the question mark?

[ledge]

I’m disappointed in what I’m reading about Weightman I think he will be exactly what we need, he is quick he can take a mark and he can kick opportunist goals, I believe he will put pressure on as well.
I have high regard for this kid , he is very skinny and can probably be pushed off the ball at the moment but can’t we at least give him some slack ?
No VFL at all, the odd scratch match where players cross over to different teams half way through , so no actual learning to play the actual game plan with his own players as a team.
He played two games in AFL and he showed glimpses.
I hope this kid proves you wrong.

[Sedat]

I’m disappointed in what I’m reading about Weightman I think he will be exactly what we need, he is quick he can take a mark and he can kick opportunist goals, I believe he will put pressure on as well.
I have high regard for this kid , he is very skinny and can probably be pushed off the ball at the moment but can’t we at least give him some slack ?
No VFL at all, the odd scratch match where players cross over to different teams half way through , so no actual learning to play the actual game plan with his own players as a team.
He played two games in AFL and he showed glimpses.
I hope this kid proves you wrong.
He's not quick. He looks like a Jamie Elliott type rather than a traditional small pressure forward.

He seems to have the right attitude and I hope he makes it.

[azabob]

I’m disappointed in what I’m reading about Weightman I think he will be exactly what we need, he is quick he can take a mark and he can kick opportunist goals, I believe he will put pressure on as well.
I have high regard for this kid , he is very skinny and can probably be pushed off the ball at the moment but can’t we at least give him some slack ?
No VFL at all, the odd scratch match where players cross over to different teams half way through , so no actual learning to play the actual game plan with his own players as a team.
He played two games in AFL and he showed glimpses.
I hope this kid proves you wrong.

Thanks Mark Thompson.

Who said he won't make it?

[jeemak]

Foggerty? Still fat and in and out of the Crows team... you guessed it.... due to work ethic.

On Weightman I actually said very early in this very thread I would be open to trading him now. It would be a risk as development of first year players surely has to be impacted due to the lack of VFL footy and everything else that has gone on in 2020.

Nah it was actually Will Gould that I was after.

[Grantysghost]

He's not quick. He looks like a Jamie Elliott type rather than a traditional small pressure forward.

He seems to have the right attitude and I hope he makes it.

Makes sense, I had a look at the combine results recently and he did well in the vertical leap and his yo-yo is apparently excellent too so elite endurance. Nothing of note in the speed category, this from afl draft central

"he is only relatively quick and agile"

https://afl.draftcentral.com.au/player/cody-weightman/

[GVGjr]

But...Georgiades isn't a small forward either.

This is what I don't get sometimes...why would we want Georgiades if we have Schache, Dale, Lloyd, Dickson and - I guess - Wallis?

We can't play them all. If we recruit Georgiades, well, clear out those in front of him. I guess that's why I was frustrated with the Garcia selection - if we want Garcia, then why exactly are we keeping Porter?

Weightman is fine but he is not really a small forward...so what actually IS he? When we have the answer to that question then we will know whether he is going to be a player or not. My negativity is not aimed at the kid - I was frustrated at draft time that we spent a first round pick at a critical time in our development on a player with no clear skillset and - more importantly - no clear role at senior level.

As I said in the piece you quoted - apparently he has a good attitude and mindset so will get there in the end...I just think he should have been a rookie selection and not a first round pick.

This is roughly the same logic I was asking about when we recruited Bruce and all it's really done has pushed Schache to the back of the queue.

Georgiades, Schache and Naughton might have been a good mix of taller players for us and Ugle-Hagan coming through in a couple of seasons.

Regarding Weightman, I agree he isn't a small crumbing forward but is a small forward with mid sized forward attributes
He doesn't see himself as a midfielder either.

[azabob]

Nah it was actually Will Gould that I was after.

Yep, your main man HD put me on the straight and narrow!

[bornadog]

This is roughly the same logic I was asking about when we recruited Bruce and all it's really done has pushed Schache to the back of the queue.

We should draft the best player, not draft for needs - well especially for your first pick

[Dry Rot]

Nah it was actually Will Gould that I was after.

So was I.

Gould is fat and unfit, so am I.

So if he could make it in the AFL, so could I.*






* Perhaps over 40 years ago. But given my appalling junior AFL career, maybe not.

[GVGjr]

We should draft the best player, not draft for needs - well especially for your first pick

I've never really been of a different opinion

Trading for players though is more needs based (with some exceptions) and all that landing Bruce has done is pushed Schache to the back of the queue

[DOG GOD]

I've never really been of a different opinion

Trading for players though is more needs based (with some exceptions) and all that landing Bruce has done is pushed Schache to the back of the queue

Which says to me the MC don’t rate Schache

[Mofra]

I've never really been of a different opinion

Trading for players though is more needs based (with some exceptions) and all that landing Bruce has done is pushed Schache to the back of the queue
Schache plays more of a meek medium leading forward role than a legitimate KPP role. He's icing, not cake.

[comrade]

Schache plays more of a meek medium leading forward role than a legitimate KPP role. He's icing, not cake.

Shaq needs to be pushed up the field, tall winger style.

[bornadog]

I've never really been of a different opinion

Trading for players though is more needs based (with some exceptions) and all that landing Bruce has done is pushed Schache to the back of the queue

I agree. However, maybe we thought Bruce can fill the role as Schache develops into the role given their age differences.? It is no different to having a few options in the ruck which you have mentioned a few times. Why limit the list to one CHF?

I guess my point is we decided to draft Weightman, so did we think he was better than Georgiadis, or did we draft for a need.

[Happy Days]

The Weightman pick kind of reminds me of the Howard pick, in that we seemed to want another guy (Jetta/Pickett), missed them, and picked what we viewed to be the player most analogous.

Not saying Cody will end up like Howard, but also not a huge fan of the methodology if it is in fact the case.

[Dancin' Douggy]

I have to agree.

[GVGjr]

Which says to me the MC don’t rate Schache

It's not what they said when we traded for Bruce. Schache, Naughton and Bruce we going to be in the forward line

We now either need to trade Schache or find another position for him.

[dog town]

It's not what they said when we traded for Bruce. Schache, Naughton and Bruce we going to be in the forward line

We now either need to trade Schache or find another position for him. I don’t think anyone believed that would happen. Was never an option with our style of play unless everything went perfectly.

[GVGjr]

Schache plays more of a meek medium leading forward role than a legitimate KPP role. He's icing, not cake.

I'm not sure I view him in that light, it seems to be more a convenient fit to explain why we have stuck with the out of form Bruce all season and moved Schache back. Schache can play and he can kick straight, all we have done is limited his chances this year and make him expendable.

[GVGjr]

I agree. However, maybe we thought Bruce can fill the role as Schache develops into the role given their age differences.? It is no different to having a few options in the ruck which you have mentioned a few times. Why limit the list to one CHF?

I guess my point is we decided to draft Weightman, so did we think he was better than Georgiadis, or did we draft for a need.

We said we could play all 3 tall players and Bruce would add to the Naughton and Schache combination

Regarding Weightman, I tend to think we deviated away from the best available approach and perhaps that is fair enough when you have a latish 1st rounder

[The Pie Man]

We said we could play all 3 tall players and Bruce would add to the Naughton and Schache combination

Regarding Weightman, I tend to think we deviated away from the best available approach and perhaps that is fair enough when you have a latish 1st rounder

His personality likely played a role too - *feels* like the group needs his kind of energy.

*obviously an extremely outside view

[1eyedog]

Cody was listed mid-teens in almost every phantom draft so he pretty much was best available and a player of need when it came to our selection.

Magnificent work ethic you just know he's going to be a player in a year or two. Great selection.

[hujsh]

Wasn't Cody expected to be taken by Melbourne initially but since Picket went up the order they ended up going with him? So it's not like Cody was expected to go in the 20s or something at any stage.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Correct. Pretty much all phantoms had Cody going mid-late 1st round/early second. He certainly wasn’t a reach in the eyes of the experts. Whether that’s correct or not is another question.

[bornadog]

We said we could play all 3 tall players and Bruce would add to the Naughton and Schache combination


I could be wrong, but the only article that indicated all three would play in the same team was Schache in an interview. Bevo never said we would play all three together.

[GVGjr]

I could be wrong, but the only article that indicated all three would play in the same team was Schache in an interview. Bevo never said we would play all three together.

Check some of the podcasts/interviews with Bains and I think there was one with Beveridge. Definitely flagged that 3 talls would be played. We signed Schache for another deal so it sounded like we were going to try something different.
Are you really saying our plan was to sign Schache to an extension to the end of 2022 and at the same time we traded for Bruce so that we could drop Schache back to the reserves? I'd really question if that was our list management approach

All it's done is stunted his development while we persevere with the out of form Bruce.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Check some of the podcasts/interviews with Bains and I think there was one with Beveridge. Definitely flagged that 3 talls would be played. We signed Schache for another deal so it sounded like we were going to try something different.
Are you really saying our plan was to sign Schache to an extension to the end of 2022 and at the same time we traded for Bruce so that we could drop Schache back to the reserves? I'd really question if that was our list management approach

All it's done is stunted his development while we persevere with the out of form Bruce.

For me it says, For how crap Bruce has been, to still get a game, how bad has Schache presented and/or performed for the match committee to step back from their plan to play 3 talls?

I doubt the MC are overjoyed about re-signing Schache, and then him not hitting internal indicators required to actually play him with any regularity.
Schache has some great AFL qualities, but the one's that aren't at the required level have a lot of improving required I suspect.
The challenge is up to him to decide if he wants to be an AFL player really.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Check some of the podcasts/interviews with Bains and I think there was one with Beveridge. Definitely flagged that 3 talls would be played. We signed Schache for another deal so it sounded like we were going to try something different.
Are you really saying our plan was to sign Schache to an extension to the end of 2022 and at the same time we traded for Bruce so that we could drop Schache back to the reserves? I'd really question if that was our list management approach

All it's done is stunted his development while we persevere with the out of form Bruce.

I get Bruce is completely out of form, but I don't think it's a case that we've let Schache's potential wither on the vine. Schache has shown very little inclination to do the things that even an out of form Bruce is still bringing, desire, physicality, hitting packs, and still demanding opposition attention.

[1eyedog]

I could be wrong, but the only article that indicated all three would play in the same team was Schache in an interview. Bevo never said we would play all three together.

I can remember him mentioning that they could at some stage BAD.

[Vred]

With North officially going the full rebuild route, maybe it’s time to lure an experienced ruckman ?

[DOG GOD]

With North officially going the full rebuild route, maybe it’s time to lure an experienced ruckman ?
No better time like the present.

[GVGjr]

For me it says, For how crap Bruce has been, to still get a game, how bad has Schache presented and/or performed for the match committee to step back from their plan to play 3 talls?

I doubt the MC are overjoyed about re-signing Schache, and then him not hitting internal indicators required to actually play him with any regularity.
Schache has some great AFL qualities, but the one's that aren't at the required level have a lot of improving required I suspect.
The challenge is up to him to decide if he wants to be an AFL player really.

I don't think it's linked like that
Bevo flagged that he had no intention of dropping Bruce and even lowered the bar for him saying (which in fairness he had to) that given the conditions Bruce was bringing the ball to the ground. Not a terrific skill in my opinion. Well conditions were pretty good at Adelaide and he grabbed 4 marks and 11 possessions in a game we dominated in the first half

We can use the above logic for every player selected by the MC and have zero discussion around team selection or the form of the players if you like but playing out of form players week after week should be questioned on a discussion forum

[GVGjr]

I get Bruce is completely out of form, but I don't think it's a case that we've let Schache's potential wither on the vine. Schache has shown very little inclination to do the things that even an out of form Bruce is still bringing, desire, physicality, hitting packs, and still demanding opposition attention.

Schache played 27 games in his first 2 season with Brisbane and then 27 in 2 years for us. We then extended his deal until the end of 2022 and have played him just 2 games this season including one game that was never going to suit him

Last year he kicked 24 goals (in 14 games) and the year before that 17 so I'm convinced he can play and hit the scoreboard

Even if you aren't convinced on Schache are you going to use the same logic with Young and any other player to justify why Bruce is a walk up start with selections and every other player has to prove themselves?

What I am convinced about is form isn't the driving criteria for selection this year

[Bumper Bulldogs]

So Majak Daw has been delisted from Norf. Could he be someone worth considering as a back up on our list. He would be cheap and a back up fir Keith, Gardener and English.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

So Majak Daw has been delisted from Norf. Could he be someone worth considering as a back up on our list. He would be cheap and a back up for Keith, Gardener and English.

[The Doctor]

So Majak Daw has been delisted from Norf. Could he be someone worth considering as a back up on our list. He would be cheap and a back up for Keith, Gardener and English.

Not sure that's the way to go. We already have Trengove for that.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Not sure that's the way to go. We already have Trengove for that.

Oh yeah. I forgot as I hadn’t seen him for a while ��

[dog town]

Schache played 27 games in his first 2 season with Brisbane and then 27 in 2 years for us. We then extended his deal until the end of 2022 and have played him just 2 games this season including one game that was never going to suit him

Last year he kicked 24 goals (in 14 games) and the year before that 17 so I'm convinced he can play and hit the scoreboard

Even if you aren't convinced on Schache are you going to use the same logic with Young and any other player to justify why Bruce is a walk up start with selections and every other player has to prove themselves?

What I am convinced about is form isn't the driving criteria for selection this year I certainly think Schache has something to offer but guys his size who don’t play to their size end up reliant on team structure and who else is in the side. He can be really hard to pick from that point of view.

Tend to agree that a comparison with the treatment Bruce has been given doesn’t stand up to scrutiny. Can only guess that Bruce being a proven player they have been prepared to wait for him to come good.

[Hotdog60]

I suppose Schache likes the ball in front and we don't deliver the ball into our forward 50 like that very often. Bruce on the other hand like to hit the packs so may be he is more suited to how we are playing. There will be space for Schache when the likes of Dickson and Lloyd are gone but then again there's JUH.

[Bulldog4life]

Cody was listed mid-teens in almost every phantom draft so he pretty much was best available and a player of need when it came to our selection.

Magnificent work ethic you just know he's going to be a player in a year or two. Great selection.

Yes he wasn't a left field pick. Can't understand all the fuss.

[The Pie Man]

I know Cavarra kicked a couple of goals in his last game but I didn't think he was great in terms of effort/impact around the drop of the ball. Yes - one of those goals came from a skilful mark...but to me:
1/. He shouldn't have been the one marking it.
2/. When goals > tackles as a small forward you have your focus a little backwards...goals should be the result of pressure, not the result of flukey marks.

I think he would be unlucky to be delisted but I can understand why the coaches have been reluctant to play him.

Watching Lonie get to the front of contest well last night, you can see why we’re reportedly targeting him.

With retirements & obvious delistings, I hope we give Cav one more year to figure it out

[Bulldog Revolution]

So Majak Daw has been delisted from Norf. Could he be someone worth considering as a back up on our list. He would be cheap and a back up for Keith, Gardener and English.

I think hes lost a bit of his explosive athleticism with the injury

He is closer to the type that might work for us as he can play backup ruck and key defender

[ledge]

I think hes lost a bit of his explosive athleticism with the injury

He is closer to the type that might work for us as he can play backup ruck and key defender

Like Pruess or Campbell, spend his footy career in the VFL, remember English will only get better.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I don't think it's linked like that
Bevo flagged that he had no intention of dropping Bruce and even lowered the bar for him saying (which in fairness he had to) that given the conditions Bruce was bringing the ball to the ground. Not a terrific skill in my opinion. Well conditions were pretty good at Adelaide and he grabbed 4 marks and 11 possessions in a game we dominated in the first half

We can use the above logic for every player selected by the MC and have zero discussion around team selection or the form of the players if you like but playing out of form players week after week should be questioned on a discussion forum

Not sure that's fair Gary. I don't have an issue with debating whether or not Bruce should be in or out. On a couple of occasions myself I've said Bruce surely can't continue to be selected.

All I'm trying to say here is that given how poor Bruce has been, Schache must be going even worse, to not even get a look in by the match committee.
I do think Schache has attributes that are good, and I want him to make it, and clearly the club do too, otherwise they wouldn't have extended him.
I would love to know just why it is he has seemingly gone to the back of the queue for a game but I suspect the club isn't about to reveal that.
The only thing I can think of is that the things that Bruce is still doing, eg pressure, intensity, hitting packs, are things the MC highly value and that they must not be seeing that from Schache in training, or scratch matches, since he was dropped after his dismal Carlton performance.

[GVGjr]

Not sure that's fair Gary. I don't have an issue with debating whether or not Bruce should be in or out. On a couple of occasions myself I've said Bruce surely can't continue to be selected.

All I'm trying to say here is that given how poor Bruce has been, Schache must be going even worse, to not even get a look in by the match committee.
I do think Schache has attributes that are good, and I want him to make it, and clearly the club do too, otherwise they wouldn't have extended him.
I would love to know just why it is he has seemingly gone to the back of the queue for a game but I suspect the club isn't about to reveal that.
The only thing I can think of is that the things that Bruce is still doing, eg pressure, intensity, hitting packs, are things the MC highly value and that they must not be seeing that from Schache in training, or scratch matches, since he was dropped after his dismal Carlton performance.

Apologies, it wasn't meant to offend
I understand what you are saying but we know that Bruce isn't quite delivering at the moment and he's had a long run during the season to start to deliver and yet when we raise the likes of Lewis Young or in this instance Schache as other options we are prepared to speculate, quite harshly in my opinion, on why they aren't being played.
We can certainly work on the notion that the MC gets it right most of the time and really shouldn't be challenged too much but what I do know and believe is that when the selections last year started making more sense last year our performance improved.

If you check my posts, I've certainly haven't participated in the fat shaming that Bruce (and Bont) have received and I've stuck to the facts that his form doesn't warrant automatic selection but lets face it that is what he has got.
I've also not been that critical of Gowers and Gardner again looking more on their form

If people are seeing value in what Bruce is bringing us then great, I'm just struggling to we what that is.
Lets hope he has a good game against Fremantle

[Grantysghost]

Bruce never played in finals at the Saints. Let's get him his first. I see value.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Bruce never played in finals at the Saints. Let's get him his first. I see value.

When we beat Freo it sets up a final against the saints. So that’s going to give Bruce motivation to play in his first two finals.

[The Doctor]

With North culling so hard and the likelihood of Brown & Polec moving on I wonder if they would have any interest in any of our fringe players? Schache for instance? If we had any interest in Polec maybe some deal could be worked out there.

[GVGjr]

With North culling so hard and the likelihood of Brown & Polec moving on I wonder if they would have any interest in any of our fringe players? Schache for instance? If we had any interest in Polec maybe some deal could be worked out there.

There is a fair chance a few clubs ask about Schache and Lewis Young
Essendon would have to be interested if they were to lose Daniher and who knows but maybe he has some appeal to Geelong

[Danjul]

There is a fair chance a few clubs ask about Schache and Lewis Young
Essendon would have to be interested if they were to lose Daniher and who knows but maybe he has some appeal to Geelong
Difficult to believe that this is even a possibility.

Schache and Young have so much potential but the time has come where we must all accept the reality that the club can’t develop them. Good luck to them in their new clubs.

[bornadog]

Difficult to believe that this is even a possibility.

Schache and Young have so much potential but the time has come where we must all accept the reality that the club can’t develop them. Good luck to them in their new clubs.

21 and 23 years old and both tall. I wouldn't be letting them go yet

[GVGjr]

21 and 23 years old and both tall. I wouldn't be letting them go yet

Neither would I, but if they aren't being played (3 senior games between them this year) whats the incentive to keep them or for them to stay?
We are fortunate that they've both got contracts for 2021 (Schache 2022)

[bornadog]

Neither would I, but if they aren't being played (3 senior games between them this year) whats the incentive to keep them or for them to stay?
We are fortunate that they've both got contracts for 2021 (Schache 2022)

You always need backup players.

[Rocket Science]

21 and 23 years old and both tall. I wouldn't be letting them go yet

Sure, but at what point do we take aiming to be genuine contender seriously enough to jettison 'projects' in favour of quality?

Or put another way, how many years of prime Bont, Jacko & Co. are we content to piss away while we conduct experiments on traditionally slow to develop talls?

On top of English and Gardner I mean.

We need quality to remedy whatever holes our brains trust feel exist to the extent they're holding us back advancing our cause.

I'm annoyed too that we haven't developed Young & Schache into regulars, but if we can tangibly improve our best 22 circa smart dealing then I'm thanking them for their services.

[Danjul]

Sure, but at what point do we take aiming to be genuine contender seriously enough to jettison 'projects' in favour of quality?

Or put another way, how many years of prime Bont, Jacko & Co. are we content to piss away while we conduct experiments on traditionally slow to develop talls?

On top of English and Gardner I mean.

We need quality to remedy whatever holes our brains trust feel exist to the extent they're holding us back advancing our cause.

I'm annoyed too that we haven't developed Young & Schache into regulars, but if we can tangibly improve our best 22 circa smart dealing then I'm thanking them for their services.

My problem with these two players is I have no idea what development means.

Take Lewis Young, for example. I saw his first game. Close to best on ground. Took more marks than anyone else in the team. It included contested pack marks at centre half back. He was a natural footballer, a talent we could build on .

After about 3 years of development we have nothing.

And Schache, look at his goals per game or % of games getting goals, and there is obvious talent we can build on. Except for the fact that in the modern game they are irrelevant attributes.

I didn’t expect it.

[The Underdog]

My problem with these two players is I have no idea what development means.

Take Lewis Young, for example. I saw his first game. Close to best on ground. Took more marks than anyone else in the team. It included contested pack marks at centre half back. He was a natural footballer, a talent we could build on .

After about 3 years of development we have nothing.

And Schache, look at his goals per game or % of games getting goals, and there is obvious talent we can build on. Except for the fact that in the modern game they are irrelevant attributes.

I didn’t expect it.

I also saw Lewis Young’s 5th game where Jon Patton nearly made him cry. Sometimes guys start fast and get worked out.
In saying that, I’m a fan of both. I’ve been a proponent of Schache since he arrived and I think Young has huge upside. Unfortunately it seems both have issues in maintaining intensity and physical presence which are attributes that seem to be prized fairly highly by this regime. Would I have given them both more games this year? For sure. But I don’t know what conversations are being had internally either. The problem may be that this is something that isn’t necessarily coachable. It’s clearly the reason not many teams were interested in Schache when he was available for trade. I hope we keep both and give them opportunity but I can see where both would be looking elsewhere.

[Rocket Science]

My problem with these two players is I have no idea what development means.

Take Lewis Young, for example. I saw his first game. Close to best on ground. Took more marks than anyone else in the team. It included contested pack marks at centre half back. He was a natural footballer, a talent we could build on .

After about 3 years of development we have nothing.

And Schache, look at his goals per game or % of games getting goals, and there is obvious talent we can build on. Except for the fact that in the modern game they are irrelevant attributes.

I didn’t expect it.

No argument on Lewy Young. What has - or more importantly hasn't - happened with him since that splashy debut ranks right up there as one of the most confounding features of Bevo's tenure. Still reckon there's a Darcy Moore type somewhere in there waiting to break out but as it stands I feel like I've got more chance of being selected than he has.

Schache's prospect of same I'm less enthusiastic about, not least of all because whether he overcomes his struggles or not he still needs to displace one of Naughton, Bruce or eventually Ugle-Hagan. The arithmetic just doesn't work.

If he lands us a look at someone who's a walk-up best-22 however, I think it's time we blinked. Another year buried in our system isn't going to help anyone, least of all Josh.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Schaches flaws are there for all to see. I do like him as a player and in a game that flows he can be pretty damaging with his repeat long leads and foot skills, but his lack of aggression is a big issue. I don't think it should have kept him to just two games this year though, particularly given our forward half woes and Bruce's poor form.

Young is more mystifying. Played him when he wasn't ready at the start but gave him a taste for some encouraging signs, then we didn't really see him until late last year when he suddenly reappeared and displaced JT for the final. Fast forward to preseason and he looked in good condition, showed encouraging signs as a forward and we haven't seen him since. What gives?

Gardner has improved but he had to coming from his incredibly low base. Hope he makes it but I don't get that Young has again disappeared out of calculation, below a guy that is still very questionable at the level (Young isn't proven either, granted).

[Danjul]

I also saw Lewis Young’s 5th game where Jon Patton nearly made him cry. Sometimes guys start fast and get worked out.
In saying that, I’m a fan of both. I’ve been a proponent of Schache since he arrived and I think Young has huge upside. Unfortunately it seems both have issues in maintaining intensity and physical presence which are attributes that seem to be prized fairly highly by this regime. Would I have given them both more games this year? For sure. But I don’t know what conversations are being had internally either. The problem may be that this is something that isn’t necessarily coachable. It’s clearly the reason not many teams were interested in Schache when he was available for trade. I hope we keep both and give them opportunity but I can see where both would be looking elsewhere.
Patton was close to the best big forward in the competition. He shared leading goal kicker with Cameron in a strong team. The in form Patton had 15 possessions and 4 goals. He had kicked 20 goals in the previous 7 games.

Young still had 11 possessions and 5 marks. A mismatch where he was beaten but not disgraced.

And in a team that kicked only 7 goals.

It was a slaughter with GWS kicking 16 goals. Young was far from being a problem.

Against the Lions a few weeks ago Gardner had 5 possessions and his opponent got 5 goals. Made him a selection certainty. Hipwood had kicked 7 goals in the previous 7 games- 1 in each.

[DOG GOD]

IMO, there’s only one reason why Young has not been played, and that is because he has asked to be traded. Nothing else makes sense.

[The Underdog]

Patton was close to the best big forward in the competition. He shared leading goal kicker with Cameron in a strong team. The in form Patton had 15 possessions and 4 goals. He had kicked 20 goals in the previous 7 games.

Young still had 11 possessions and 5 marks. A mismatch where he was beaten but not disgraced.

And in a team that kicked only 7 goals.

It was a slaughter with GWS kicking 16 goals. Young was far from being a problem.

Against the Lions a few weeks ago Gardner had 5 possessions and his opponent got 5 goals. Made him a selection certainty. Hipwood had kicked 7 goals in the previous 7 games- 1 in each.

I didn’t say Young was THE problem, but at one point he was so beaten, he was almost too scared to kick the footy after he’d turned it over from a kick in. Patton got into his head and I think that game set him back quite a way after having a bright start in the games prior. And if you want to go further into his stats, he had 0 contested marks, 2 intercept possessions and 6 clangers in that game. Plus, despite the scoreboard, we had 65 inside 50’s to 34. So GWS kicked 16 goals from 34 inside 50’s.

And look I don’t disagree with you. I would definitely have given Young more looks. But there’s clearly reasons why the MC prefer Gardner. I don’t necessarily see it (although he has been better recently). Young wasn’t dropped after the GWS game, much as Gardner wasn’t after Brisbane. Gardner does seem to have been a bit more resilient following his game than Young.

[kruder]

Whats happened to Fantasia at Essendon, always had the talent seems to have fallen off the map.

Always worried about his defensive abilities, but does have forward attributes that would help put our group

[Mofra]

Whats happened to Fantasia at Essendon, always had the talent seems to have fallen off the map.

Always worried about his defensive abilities, but does have forward attributes that would help put our group
Burnt through 3 managers in 4-5 years.
Do not want. Typical naturally-talented player who won't ever fulfil his potential.

[Mofra]

Neither would I, but if they aren't being played (3 senior games between them this year) whats the incentive to keep them or for them to stay?
We are fortunate that they've both got contracts for 2021 (Schache 2022)
Morris was rookied at 22, debut at 23. No way I look to move on Young.

Schache I absolutely would move on. He has enough exposed form to suggest he is a good fit somewhere, but I don't think it is with the Bulldogs.

[Mofra]

Zac Williams has left GWS.

I suspect Carlton get him, ahead of North.

[Axe Man]

Zac Williams has left GWS.

I suspect Carlton get him, ahead of North.

Had to laugh at this:


Williams has informed the club that his preferred destination is a Victorian club to be closer to his sister who's based in Albury.

I know Melbourne is closer to Albury than Sydney but it's not like he's going to be able to jump in the car and go see his sister too often at around a 4 hour drive.

[jeemak]

Burnt through 3 managers in 4-5 years.
Do not want. Typical naturally-talented player who won't ever fulfil his potential.

Definitely an EFC keeper!

[GVGjr]

Morris was rookied at 22, debut at 23. No way I look to move on Young.

Schache I absolutely would move on. He has enough exposed form to suggest he is a good fit somewhere, but I don't think it is with the Bulldogs.

We do seem to prefer our key position players to come with experience from other clubs, Gardner, Keath, Trengove, Bruce and Schache, and if you assume English is a ruckman and there is a point of difference there, we only really have Naughton as a KPP we have developed. Even Adams and Hamling had some more exposure before we acquired them and we couldn't make anything out of Collins and probably preferred to be a KP short than use Roughead the way the Pies have.

While I get your point regarding Young I think we should jettison both Young and Schache if the best we can offer them is a combined 3 games for a season.

Personally I would like to keep (but play) both of them but they will likely struggle next season as well.

Essendon, North and Hawks should all be in touch for Schache. Crows and North for Young

[bornadog]

Had to laugh at this:



I know Melbourne is closer to Albury than Sydney but it's not like he's going to be able to jump in the car and go see his sister too often at around a 4 hour drive.

A bit like Harbrow wanting to be closer to his family in Cairns

[comrade]

Can someone tell me why Carlton is such a desirable destination for all these players?

[GVGjr]

Can someone tell me why Carlton is such a desirable destination for all these players?

Corporate opportunities might be one factor

[Happy Days]

Can someone tell me why Carlton is such a desirable destination for all these players?

All of the financial benefit with zero expectation to ever be any good.

[EasternWest]

Can someone tell me why Carlton is such a desirable destination for all these players?

Because unquestionably they've found a way to continue to deliver third party contracts.

[dog town]

Surprised that nobody in the media has tackled this issue yet. How can it be that only 6-7 clubs get all of the high profile free agents and half of those 6-7 clubs have been dreadful for a decade?

Even Melbourne seem to be constantly in the mix and would have extensive old boys/private school networks.

[Bulldog Joe]

Corporate opportunities might be one factor

Also Big Fish little Pond on playing opportunity.

If you are recognised as a good Carlton player you probably do have more after football employment options.

[Grantysghost]

Whatever the reason, it ain't working.

[bornadog]

Any gems amongst this lot? Maybe TT can help us:

South Australia’s 30 top AFL Draft prospects (https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/afl/september-power-rankings-south-australias-30-top-afl-draft-prospects/news-story/4acf20de542b06f2d27e76756b5678ec)

[Bulldog Joe]

Whatever the reason, it ain't working.

I like how things are working for Carlton and Essendon over the last decade plus.

Plenty of players choose their own version of mediocrity.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Absolutely great point. I'm always amazed when these players nominate (actually choose, which is another issue) these perennially underperforming clubs. It simply doesn't make sense.

Surprised that nobody in the media has tackled this issue yet. How can it be that only 6-7 clubs get all of the high profile free agents and half of those 6-7 clubs have been dreadful for a decade?

Even Melbourne seem to be constantly in the mix and would have extensive old boys/private school networks.

[kruder]

Why would free agents want to go to the dogs?

We have Naughty, English and incoming JUH potentially three most talented talls in the comp.

A midfield of Bont,Libba,Macrae,Dunkley,Smith and Hunter

The best smallest player in the AFL bar none Caleb Daniel.

Yeah nah lets go to a side that finished..
2014 13th
2015 18th
2016 14th
2017 16th
2018 18th
2019 16th
2020 11th

Aka Carlton

Actually maybe Essendon they haven't won a final since 2004 surely they are due?

Makes complete sense to me :confused:

[bornadog]

Would we consider McDonald?


STEVO

Crazy year indeed:DDemon Tom McDonald has been cruising around Twin Waters in a Mercedes complete with “DOGS54” plates.

A strange look the day the Dees were hoping the Dogs lost. Borrowed car from his partner’s parents ... who are big Dogs fans.

[EasternWest]

Would we consider McDonald?

Hard pass from me.

[Grantysghost]

Hard pass from me.

I'd rather Ronald.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Would we consider McDonald?

At the right price, yes - but we'd want to get some sense of where he is at physically - hes historically been an excellent performer first as a key defender and then forward

He seems more suited as a key defender and more natural in that role

[Bulldog Revolution]

Hard pass from me.

Why so? Hasnt been a terrible player - do you think he's cooked?

[Bulldog Revolution]

Why so? Hasnt been a terrible player - do you think he's cooked?

I view this list reduction and trade period as providing some opportunities to acquire an asset from another club that we can recast into a more effective role for us

We should be considering all KP defensive prospects

[GVGjr]

Would we consider McDonald?

Perhaps, he's had an average season though

[bornadog]

Perhaps, he's had an average season though

He has been mucked about from Full back to full forward. I think he is more of a defender.

[Grantysghost]

He has been mucked about from Full back to full forward. I think he is more of a defender.

He kicked 53 goals in 2018 so you can see why they have used him forward, especially with the recruitment of May. Couple of years ago maybe, but I follow the Demons reasonably closely due to friends and even they say he's just not the same player since his most recent injury.

[GVGjr]

He has been mucked about from Full back to full forward. I think he is more of a defender.

Hmmm, he may not be one for us then as we enjoy throwing the players into other positions.

[1eyedog]

Yes to McDonald and play him back. Serious upgrade on Gardner.

[bornadog]

Hmmm, he may not be one for us then as we enjoy throwing the players into other positions.

That is actually over stated. We have been very stable this year.

Have you seen this:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EifWKIoUMAIQcwv?format=jpg&name=medium

[bulldogsthru&thru]

That is actually over stated. We have been very stable this year.

Have you seen this:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EifWKIoUMAIQcwv?format=jpg&name=medium

What are they going to offer us? Pick 1? We’ve already got that :cool:

[EasternWest]

Why so? Hasnt been a terrible player - do you think he's cooked?

Just don't rate him. Think he's a turd. Perfectly suited to Melbourne. Plus he's a turd.

My opinion of him may be influenced by a difference in our beliefs in humanity.

[jeemak]

Just don't rate him. Think he's a turd. Perfectly suited to Melbourne. Plus he's a turd.

My opinion of him may be influenced by a difference in our beliefs in humanity.

OK...….unpack this for me.

[ReLoad]

OK...….unpack this for me.

Yes details please!

[EasternWest]

OK...….unpack this for me.


Yes details please!

Not a lot to it really. Let's just say he's a Jordan Peterson disciple and has guested on right wing podcasts.

Each to their own, but that's not my style.

[bornadog]

Not a lot to it really. Let's just say he's a Jordan Peterson disciple and has guested on right wing podcasts.

Each to their own, but that's not my style.

He can get stuffed then. :)

[jeemak]

Not a lot to it really. Let's just say he's a Jordan Peterson disciple and has guested on right wing podcasts.

Each to their own, but that's not my style.

Where does he find the time! Think he's probably best suited to where he is then...……...

[Happy Days]

Not a lot to it really. Let's just say he's a Jordan Peterson disciple and has guested on right wing podcasts.

Each to their own, but that's not my style.

Wow had almost forgotten about Lobster Boy. Does that mean McDonald is on the all meat diet too?

[Dry Rot]

Not a lot to it really. Let's just say he's a Jordan Peterson disciple and has guested on right wing podcasts.

Each to their own, but that's not my style.

He does look quite Aryan IIRC.

[ReLoad]

Perfect fit for the Dees

[Mofra]

More articles linking us with Xav O'Halloran.
At a guess I'd liken role with us as an early-years Callan Ward, although he played wing in his two games this year with GWS.

Ex-Jets captain so the romantic in me says just get him here.

[comrade]

More articles linking us with Xav O'Halloran.
At a guess I'd liken role with us as an early-years Callan Ward, although he played wing in his two games this year with GWS.

Ex-Jets captain so the romantic in me says just get him here.

I'm getting Jack Steele vibes.

[Mofra]

I'm getting Jack Steele vibes.
He could certainly take a turn in the centre if need be. Lipinski with pace, a bit more inside.

[azabob]

There seems to be a few small forwards out of contract at years end.

Nick Hind at saints has looked ok, although Jack Lonie has taken his spot of late.

Interestingly Ben Ronke is out of contract - is he a defensive forward though?

Jack Higgins has had his injury issues, but him and Bailey Smith are good mates...

https://www.afl.com.au/news/510272/the-small-forwards-in-big-demand-who-will-be-this-trade-period-s-dan-butler-

[Mofra]

Jack Higgins would cost a packet, and after his issues I'd expect him to stay.

Lonie is out of contract and seems the most 'gettable'.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Xav O'Halloran would come fairly cheap I would imagine given GWS hardly played him. Sounds like a decent pickup to me given his strengths are acceleration from the contest and low bullets passes into 50. He also has great contested ability and runs both ways. Doesn't get a lot of the ball but that isn't an area of need for us. Sounds like a big bang for your buck kind of player.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Xav O'Halloran would come fairly cheap I would imagine given GWS hardly played him. Sounds like a decent pickup to me given his strengths are acceleration from the contest and low bullets passes into 50. He also has great contested ability and runs both ways. Doesn't get a lot of the ball but that isn't an area of need for us. Sounds like a big bang for your buck kind of player.

Given we need more picks to secure JUH not to mention potentially Raak and Macpherson, (some press reporting Adelaide intend to bid at pick 1) it will be interesting who we look to trade out to get additional picks to bring in guys like Halloran and Lonie. I know they're both out of contract but I don't think they're free agents, so will need to be traded for.

[azabob]

More articles linking us with Xav O'Halloran.
At a guess I'd liken role with us as an early-years Callan Ward, although he played wing in his two games this year with GWS.

Ex-Jets captain so the romantic in me says just get him here.

I know next to nothing about him - here is an article on him when he was selected in his debut game.

If he does come, number 33 is already taken...

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/giants-debutant-out-to-put-on-show-for-family-in-lockdown-in-melbourne-20200806-p55jbb.html

[Axe Man]

Given we need more picks to secure JUH not to mention potentially Raak and Macpherson, (some press reporting Adelaide intend to bid at pick 1) it will be interesting who we look to trade out to get additional picks to bring in guys like Halloran and Lonie. I know they're both out of contract but I don't think they're free agents, so will need to be traded for.

We don't necessarily need to trade players out, we can use future picks, either for additional picks in 2020 or incoming players.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Given we need more picks to secure JUH not to mention potentially Raak and Macpherson, (some press reporting Adelaide intend to bid at pick 1) it will be interesting who we look to trade out to get additional picks to bring in guys like Halloran and Lonie. I know they're both out of contract but I don't think they're free agents, so will need to be traded for.

I suppose it will come down to how tight the squeeze is at GWS. All teams will be forcing out a lot of players with reduced list sizes but GWS always has a tighter ship to run.

[Happy Days]

I'm warming to Lonie, who I've always liked anyway (for once I will allow you to check my post history). He's shown a bit more toe in his last couple of games, maybe he's fitter than previous? Either way he definitely hits the scoreboard which is something that is both really difficult to do and all too often overlooked.

O'Halloran feels name brand only and don't know what he's actually done to suggest we should target him other than get drafted high. He looked a mile off it when he played this year.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I'm warming to Lonie, who I've always liked anyway (for once I will allow you to check my post history). He's shown a bit more toe in his last couple of games, maybe he's fitter than previous? Either way he definitely hits the scoreboard which is something that is both really difficult to do and all too often overlooked.

O'Halloran feels name brand only and don't know what he's actually done to suggest we should target him other than get drafted high. He looked a mile off it when he played this year.
He’s a dogs supporter. The giants have treated him poorly since drafting him.

[bornadog]

He’s a dogs supporter. The giants have treated him poorly since drafting him.

But can he play?

[bulldogsthru&thru]

But can he play?

My comment was a bit tongue in cheek.

But yes he can certainly play. I think he'd be the perfect student for Bevo.

[Mofra]

But can he play?
Highly rated junior, development impacted by injury and no NEAFL this year. High character.
I imagine if we brought him in it wouldn't be as an impact player but to develop him longer term.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Highly rated junior, development impacted by injury and no NEAFL this year. High character.
I imagine if we brought him in it wouldn't be as an impact player but to develop him longer term.

Yep it'd be a long term project. He's high character and has all the trademarks of a great leader. I think he just needs the right environment to excel. As I said, he'd be perfect under Bevo and Bevo would love him too.

[soupman]

As discussed already I'd be really pushing to see if we can get Peter Ladhams to ask for a trade to us. Ruck who covers the ground well, is a decent ball user and links up play, can be effective up forward and is a decent mark and shot, would be a fantastic combo with English and enable us to play two rucks without feeling it. He'd be hard to get but the good ones are.

After that. I know nothing about O'Halloran but if we can get him relatively cheaply I'd be down. Perryman would be better and sounds like he is a chance to leave but again he would be expensive. Rarely does a player that couldn't get a game at GWS kick on though, even if it was through injury, so that would be my biggest reservation on O'Halloran (aside from the name Xavier, yuck). GWS are really good at pushing games into the young guys they like, and those are the ones definitely worth trading for, O'Halloran despite his draft pick could easily follow in the footsteps of the likes of Aiden Bonar, or Kristian Jaksch, or Will Setterfield as a player they didn't try to pump games in and was a high draft pick that hasn't really kicked on at his next club.

I would like us to try and get Quinten Narkle, seems to be on the outer and rumours he wants a move. Smooth moving, offensive player that could play as a high half forward for us with stints in the midfield, better linking our forwardline to the rest of the lineup. I haven't seen a lot of him but he looks like he has some pace and could also be an ok crumbing option without being an actual small forward, if he is going cheap I'd be totally down.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Haven't seen much of XOH, but nothing jumped out.

I'm with you soup, I really like Narkle and think he'd be a nice fit for us.

[kruder]

A bit of Narkle off the Geelong site

https://www.geelongcats.com.au/video/442392/remarkable-narkle?videoId=442392&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1565444036001

https://www.geelongcats.com.au/video/241893/narkle-vfl-highlights-r15?videoId=241893&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1563760099001

With Mclean out for the year you can see the merit in having a crack at this kid. He does seem to have similar attributes to Toby being able to win the ball inside and get outside in one motion Bevo would like his flexibility. It's interesting though I wonder how the club feel about Garcia who sounds like he is making some nice progress( guessing he starts as a high half forward) and obviously West could also play this role.

[HOSE B ROMERO]

I know next to nothing about him - here is an article on him when he was selected in his debut game.

If he does come, number 33 is already taken...

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/giants-debutant-out-to-put-on-show-for-family-in-lockdown-in-melbourne-20200806-p55jbb.html

Ron McCarthy's grandson?

Do the deal.

Next

[westbulldog]

Could we be in line to draft Jacksons younger brother Finlay Macrae ?
Finlay Macrae
Oakleigh Chargers/Vic Metro | Balanced Midfielder
13/03/2002 | 184cm | 75kg

You may recognise the name and yes, Finlay is the brother of Western Bulldogs midfielder, Jack. They are quite clearly cut from the same cloth, with the younger Macrae possessing a similar ball winning appetite and class on the ball to his established older sibling. The 184cm Charger also boasts a terrific balance in his traits, able to impact the play moving forward with sound decision making and precise execution via foot, on top of his obvious exploits in extraction. While he is not overly quick, Macrae’s evasiveness comes through agility and awareness, which would have been on full show as he prepared to feature prominently for Oakleigh, Xavier College, and Vic Metro in 2020.

August Ranking: #20

Last Month: Inactive due to lack of NAB League and APS Football.

[Bulldog4life]

Could we be in line to draft Jacksons younger brother Finlay Macrae ?
Finlay Macrae
Oakleigh Chargers/Vic Metro | Balanced Midfielder
13/03/2002 | 184cm | 75kg

You may recognise the name and yes, Finlay is the brother of Western Bulldogs midfielder, Jack. They are quite clearly cut from the same cloth, with the younger Macrae possessing a similar ball winning appetite and class on the ball to his established older sibling. The 184cm Charger also boasts a terrific balance in his traits, able to impact the play moving forward with sound decision making and precise execution via foot, on top of his obvious exploits in extraction. While he is not overly quick, Macrae’s evasiveness comes through agility and awareness, which would have been on full show as he prepared to feature prominently for Oakleigh, Xavier College, and Vic Metro in 2020.

August Ranking: #20

Last Month: Inactive due to lack of NAB League and APS Football.

Trained with the club over summer. Not sure if we will have the pick necessary to grab him. Impressive though.

[GVGjr]

Could we be in line to draft Jacksons younger brother Finlay Macrae ?
Finlay Macrae
Oakleigh Chargers/Vic Metro | Balanced Midfielder
13/03/2002 | 184cm | 75kg

You may recognise the name and yes, Finlay is the brother of Western Bulldogs midfielder, Jack. They are quite clearly cut from the same cloth, with the younger Macrae possessing a similar ball winning appetite and class on the ball to his established older sibling. The 184cm Charger also boasts a terrific balance in his traits, able to impact the play moving forward with sound decision making and precise execution via foot, on top of his obvious exploits in extraction. While he is not overly quick, Macrae’s evasiveness comes through agility and awareness, which would have been on full show as he prepared to feature prominently for Oakleigh, Xavier College, and Vic Metro in 2020.

August Ranking: #20

Last Month: Inactive due to lack of NAB League and APS Football.

It's going to need a bit of a miracle for us to be able to land someone like Macrae
Outside of Ugle-Hagan our next picks are likely to be late in the 3rd round

[azabob]

OK, take two.

Based of Axeman super awesome and often forgotten Contract thread

Easton Wood (has signed 2 year deal)

Resign: Taylor Duryea, Jordan Sweet, Ryan Gardner, Roarke Smith

Not Fussed: Lachie Young, Lin Jong, Fergus Greene

Delist: Sam Lloyd (payout contract), Tory Dickson, Billy Gowers, Brad Lynch, Cal Porter, Matt Suckling, Buku Khamis, Jackson Trengove, Ben Cavarra,

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I thought Duryea was close to our best last night. The only one who looked like the occasion didn’t get to him.

Edit - I think you meant re-sign Duryea

[Mantis]

OK, take two.

Based of Axeman super awesome and often forgotten Contract thread

Easton Wood (has signed 2 year deal)

Resign: Taylor Duryea, Jordan Sweet, Ryan Gardner, Roarke Smith

Not Fussed: Lachie Young, Lin Jong, Fergus Greene

Delist: Sam Lloyd (payout contract), Tory Dickson, Billy Gowers, Brad Lynch, Cal Porter, Matt Suckling, Buku Khamis, Jackson Trengove, Ben Cavarra,

I’m not comfortable with those decisions.

I hate shooting Bambi, but I think it was a mistake re-signing Easton for 2 years. He’s a great guy and been an awesome servant of the club, but his best is a long way in the rear vision mirror and has no point of difference. I would think he took about 6 intercept marks against North early in the year and wouldn’t taken about the same amount across all other games. He did do some good defensive jobs through parts of the year, but in a team with lots of defensive options I’d prefer we go in a different direction.

I think it’s time to make on Roarke... I just don’t see him ever being anything other than a bit part player and has no POD qualities. He was pretty good in the first half, but giving up 4 intercept marks in the last qtr was hard to take.

I’d love to keep Jong... not sure he’s body can stand up to AFL footy, but I love his hardness, speed and marking ability.

The decisions to re-sign Lloyd & Dale in late 2019 for 2 & 3 years is looking horrific now... I’d be happy to delist/ trade both now, but our hands are tied.

Happy with your delistings, but think that’s just a start and we need to trade aggressively with a few of our ‘nice’ players.

[CarnTheScray]

I’m not comfortable with those decisions.

I think it’s time to make on Roarke... I just don’t see him ever being anything other than a bit part player and has no POD qualities. He was pretty good in the first half, but giving up 4 intercept marks in the last qtr was hard to take.


He was getting outmarked all night as he was playing on someone 10-15cm taller. Not his fault Bevo loves picking a midget side.

[azabob]

I’m not comfortable with those decisions.

I hate shooting Bambi, but I think it was a mistake re-signing Easton for 2 years. He’s a great guy and been an awesome servant of the club, but his best is a long way in the rear vision mirror and has no point of difference. I would think he took about 6 intercept marks against North early in the year and wouldn’t taken about the same amount across all other games. He did do some good defensive jobs through parts of the year, but in a team with lots of defensive options I’d prefer we go in a different direction.

I think it’s time to make on Roarke... I just don’t see him ever being anything other than a bit part player and has no POD qualities. He was pretty good in the first half, but giving up 4 intercept marks in the last qtr was hard to take.

I’d love to keep Jong... not sure he’s body can stand up to AFL footy, but I love his hardness, speed and marking ability.

The decisions to re-sign Lloyd & Dale in late 2019 for 2 & 3 years is looking horrific now... I’d be happy to delist/ trade both now, but our hands are tied.

Happy with your delistings, but think that’s just a start and we need to trade aggressively with a few of our ‘nice’ players.

I don't disagree.

I think we could move on all of our uncontracted players and it we would be no worse off in 2021.

We clearly did not cut deep enough over the previous couple of years.

[Rocco Jones]

It really depends on the list size they are going with, last article from afl.com.au I read saying they will go from max of 46 (we had 45) to 44.

I would delist/retire:
Billy Gowers
Fergus Greene
Jackson Trengove
Brad Lynch
Will Hayes
Callum Porter
Tory Dickson
Matt Suckling
Buku Khamis

Before trading and free agency, that gives us a combo of about 7 ND/RD picks.

[Happy Days]

Serious question - is there a way to get off this ridiculous contract we gave Bruce? I would take nothing in return if it meant we don't have to pay and/or play him for the next three years.

[GVGjr]

Serious question - is there a way to get off this ridiculous contract we gave Bruce? I would take nothing in return if it meant we don't have to pay and/or play him for the next three years.

I've been a vocal as I can saying how disappointing I think he has been this season but the vast majority on here tend to think he's been OK in fact that he has been quite good in recent weeks. I just can't see it

He should be a better player next year but given he was played this year regardless of the form displayed I wonder what the incentive is for him to put the work in?

[Stefcep]

Serious question - is there a way to get off this ridiculous contract we gave Bruce? I would take nothing in return if it meant we don't have to pay and/or play him for the next three years.

in his defense the service has been worse than rubbish.

[G-Mo77]

Serious question - is there a way to get off this ridiculous contract we gave Bruce? I would take nothing in return if it meant we don't have to pay and/or play him for the next three years.

Only way would be to pay another club to take him.

We need to find another role for him IMO. Maybe send him to the backline? I mean he can't kick goals from set shots when he actually takes a mark so I don't see much point in playing him if this is going to be all we get.

[azabob]

I’d prefer Brendan Fevola as a defender than Josh Bruce.

[Happy Days]

So Goldstein is available.

2021 first who says no.

[Happy Days]

I’d prefer Brendan Fevola as a defender than Josh Bruce.

I agree and glad someone else wants to bring back the Fev on a performance-based game by game contract.

[bornadog]

So Goldstein is available.

2021 first who says no.
No.............

[comrade]

So Goldstein is available.

2021 first who says no.

If we're set on actually going deep into a finals series again, yes.

[Happy Days]

If we're set on actually going deep into a finals series again, yes.

I've really liked the Saints ruck set up this season, and how it lets them dominate aerial contests at two levels. Given Tim's strengths its something we should be looking to blatantly rip off, and we aren't going to get a better look at doing so than with a guy like Goldstein. We should be all over him.

They're gonna need some foot soliders for next season; I wonder if we have any lower end players they'd be interest in.

[GVGjr]

So Goldstein is available.

2021 first who says no.

Based on what Bevo said yesterday it isn't a consideration. We aren't likely to move English to the 2nd banana spot

On pure value a 2021 2nd sounds a bit more like it
Perhaps a 2021 first if there was a 3rd rounder coming back to us this year. That and our first pick this year would just about cover Ugle-Hagan

[GVGjr]

No.............

One of the WAH considerations?

[bornadog]

On pure value a 2021 2nd sounds a bit more like it
Perhaps a 2021 first if there was a 3rd rounder coming back to us this year. That and our first pick this year would just about cover Ugle-Hagan

There is an article on this by Sam Lansberger in the HUN, but I don't have access

[Happy Days]

Based on what Bevo said yesterday it isn't a consideration. We aren't likely to move English to the 2nd banana spot

On pure value a 2021 2nd sounds a bit more like it
Perhaps a 2021 first if there was a 3rd rounder coming back to us this year. That and our first pick this year would just about cover Ugle-Hagan

If we aren’t considering it then its a real shame because it seems like such a no brainer, and will allow Tim to play in a role that will both maximise his strengths and continue to improve his ruck work. The Saints didn’t hesitate to do it with their most promising young player and both their team and the player are better off for it.

[Happy Days]

Now that BT is gone I’ve decided its up to me to will trades into existence. After what you put me through last night Dogs you owe it to me. Do the trade.

[bornadog]

One of the WAH considerations?

Not sure What WAH means, but I don't believe the club will do it

[GVGjr]

If we aren’t considering it then its a real shame because it seems like such a no brainer, and will allow Tim to play in a role that will both maximise his strengths and continue to improve his ruck work. The Saints didn’t hesitate to do it with their most promising young player and both their team and the player are better off for it.

I can see the temptation but if Bevo's words last night mean much then it's a very unlikely scenario

Ryder is out now and the Saints have an inform and fresh Rowan Marshall ready to move over.

[GVGjr]

Not sure What WAH means, but I don't believe the club will do it

Weight, Age or Height which are often the reason used to reject any interests in players

I agree, we are very unlikely to consider Goldy. He's a quality player though and should have no worries completing 2 seasons at a high level

[bornadog]

Weight, Age or Height which are often the reason used to reject any interests in players

I agree, we are very unlikely to consider Goldy. He's a quality player though and should have no worries completing 2 seasons at a high level

Personally, I would actually take him on a 2 year which should include a playing coach role and help Tim. Not sure coaching is something he would like to do, but if he didn't cost much in way of picks - then why not.

[soupman]

Big yes to Goldstein.

Is he worth a 2021 first rounder? Kind of. I mean in the current trade market no one is paying that for a 32 year old ruckman, but that isn't to say he isn't worth it.

I really like the idea of English playing a kind of Westhoff role of being a tall that goes where he is needed and can do everything fairly well, and Goldstein is the best of the available number one rucks that could make this happen.

[Rance Fan]

I think we should look at these types.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.afl.com.au/news/507698/cats-crows-lead-chase-for-202cm-greek-freak-/amp

[Happy Days]

Big yes to Goldstein.

Is he worth a 2021 first rounder? Kind of. I mean in the current trade market no one is paying that for a 32 year old ruckman, but that isn't to say he isn't worth it.

I really like the idea of English playing a kind of Westhoff role of being a tall that goes where he is needed and can do everything fairly well, and Goldstein is the best of the available number one rucks that could make this happen.

I didn’t realise he was 32 so maybe a first is too much, but also at the same time you could think of that first being spent on English as much as Goldstein. Plus if we get Goldy we would be entitled to think the pick will be closer to 18 than 1.

[The Pie Man]

We won’t do it but Goldstein makes so much sense.

Can only hope for a change of heart.

[soupman]

Ok big offseason coming. This is what I'd do. I'm really sorry about the length of this post, I may have gotten a bit carried away.

Gowers, Greene, Trengove, Lynch, Hayes, Porter, Suckling and Khamis are all off contract. I'd let them all go (Khamis is maybe the only one I'd consider and that's only if we genuinely think he could contribute next season). Dickson is gone already.

Someone said list sizes will be capped at 42 next year. Assuming that is true that takes us down to 36 on the list.

Also Sweet and Cavarra are only retained if we think they can contribute next year. If not I'd cut them.

I'd re-sign the remaining out of contract players I think at this stage.

I see our lineup being something like the following.
Defence:
Three talls is fine, as long as they are versatile. But I want to upgrade both Gardner and Cordy. They are both serviceable, but I am not convinced they allow Keath to shine and neither are anything more than ok negating defenders. Our negating small is one of Wood or Duryea, they can't both play unless one of those talls drop out. Daniel and Williams are your rebounding guys. Crozier the interceptor. Thats 7. So I just want to upgrade the talls. I did think our defence was pretty good the second half of the season and worked pretty well in theory, but think some of the personnel are suspect and we went overboard with the amount of defenders we picked.

Ruck. English by himself is not it. I much prefer the idea of him playing a Westhoff type role, where he is a supporting player wherever he needs to be, using his mix of attributes and aerial ability to help shore up our defence, provide an attacking option of help link up through the middle. I want a main ruck who is constructive with his hitouts, decent around the ground (doesn't have to be amazing) and at least breaks even in the air.

Mids stay largely the same, Bont, Macrae, Libba, Dunkley and Smith is a good main group. Hunter is good on the wing. Wouldn't mind some more pace through there but I'm gonna put that in the forward grouping.

Our forwardline is terrible. Too many types that don't create and aren't natural forwards. Josh Bruce bafflingly was afforded an entire season in which he provided zero output. I'd be aiming for a forward setup that has Naughton as its centre piece, a mobile second tall (JUH I guess), a good finishing reliable smart forward (Wallis) and then a typical pacy small forward who is a good crumber and has good goal sense in congestion. The remaining forwards need to be able to push up the ground and help link up and bring the ball in while also being goal threats. At least one probably also plays on a wing (I probably give this role to JJ, and would be very open to swapping he and Daniel around as we see fit throughout the season), and another should be able to push up the ground as another mid type (Lipinski currently but his spot is very up for grabs). Vandermeer is one, two spots remain.

So we are looking at something like:
Defence:
FB: Duryea/Wood (Lockdown), Anchor tall/Gardner, Third tall/versatile medium/Cordy/Wood/Crozier
HB: Daniel/JJ (Main rebounder), Keath, Williams (General defender/rebound)
+One on bench

Mids
Centre: Hunter (Main wingman), Bont, .../JJ (High forward)
Ruck: ??? (Main Ruck), Bontempelli, Macrae
+Smith and Dunkley on the bench

Forwards
HF: Vandermeer (High forward with attacking intent), JUH? (Mobile tall), ??? (forward mid type with goal sense)
FF: Wallis (Pure forward who finishes), Naughton (Main threat and target), ??? (Crumbing type)
+English (playing wherever we feel he is needed)

Players in our current squad that could fill those roles:
Lewis Young could take one of the key defensive posts, or the mobile forward post, but I assume he is gone so not counting him.
I don't rate Cordy that highly as that defender, but he could be an ok option as the mobile forward depending on JUH's readiness. Not ideal though.
Schache should be gunning for the mobile tall role, but is not good enough to claim it by default.
West could play the forward mid role.
McLean is irrelevant for next year so not considered.
Bruce is purely in the squad as a backup to Naughton.
Don't really see a role opening up for Butler unless we turn that spare wing into a defensive wing.
Weightman should be aiming to take over the Wallis role, not sure he fins the ball naturally enough to play as one of the high forwards and not sure he is a natural crumber like i want for the pocket, but should be considered.
Richards has been playing the Vandermeer role with limited results, otherwise maybe the wing role?
Lloyd doesn't get a game unless Wallis is out.
Cavarra maybe gets a game in the pocket role but not sure he is good enough.
Lipinski should be in the mid forward role but has been unimpressive when it matters so I'm happy to consider other options.
Dale is another for the Wallis role, don't really see him contributing meaningfully.
Roarke is kind of that winger role/Hunter depth, but i wouldn't be planning on him being a starter.
Garcia seems highly rated internally so could be a bolter for the Vandermeer type role.
Lachie Young is a bit like Butler, might be helped if we make that third tall role a more damaging player which could be him.
Sweet is a candidate for the main ruck role, but not a realistic one.
Jong could be the winger or the mid forward option, not sure he demands the spot though.

Looking at that I think we can identify players we would be happy to trade. Cordy, Schache, Lloyd, Bruce, Lipinski and Dale are all contracted players that don't demand spots and have queries on their ability to actually make us better. None have trade value, but list spots are so valuable so if someone else wants them they can have them. I'd even seriously consider paying Lloyd out, as i really don't see a use for him going forward.

So who do we target?

The ruck is the hardest spot to fill. Where do you find a ready to go main ruck that is decent around the ground and may be available. North have Goldstein, he is clearly the biggest fish on the table. I love Ladhams from Port and think he'd be a great get, but don't see how. Nankervis has been brought up here before and is a good shout (and also out of contract), he isn't a world beater but is physical and reliable, unfortunately Soldo's knee injury makes him harder to pry from the Tigers. I do not rate Preuss at all so not him please. A left field option could be Ben McEvoy, Hawthorn aren't too attached to their experienced guys and McEvoy could be a cheap and effective option. After that there isn't much, plan B could be to try to find a forward ruck type that supports English and can help elsewhere. Possible targets for that are Darcy Fort (I actually think he is terrible), Callum Sinclair and Nathan Vardy, not great. So a limited pool with not many options unless we somehow pry an established starting ruck from a club.

The key defender posts are next on the list. There are a few candidates here. The first I would be looking at is Brennan Cox from Freo. Long limbed, strong mark and good in that anchor defensive position, and should be available relatively cheaply. I think he is a better version of Gardner. Another less established option is Jackson Payne. Big boy who had some encouraging performances this season for Brisbane, and is up against it for a spot with their depth. Jake Carlisle seems like a bit of a numpty, but he could also offer a cost effective option as an anchor defender and gives us marking power. Aliir Aliir is a weird player but I think he is decent, offers us size and versatility and could be interested in a move. Possible alternative could be Jarrod Brander, doesn't seem to be getting a game at West Coast, is a key forward i think but could maybe swing back.

Now to the many forwardish positions that need filling.

Would love us to have a real dip for Josh Daicos for the mid/forward role. Is creative, has goal sense and is basically a really good version of Lipinski. Not sure what he would cost though. Brandan Parfitt is another that I really like that offers good tackling pressure, and can swap between the two roles. Xavier O'Halloran is another that fits the bill here, but is largely unproven at AFL level. Is already linked to us by the media. All those guys are out of contract which is encouraging, I'd be really trying to get one of them across (particularly the first two).

Quinton Narkle could be a candidate for the mid/forward or wing/forward role. Smooth moving, pacy and seems to have goal sense, and hasn't signed a contract yet. Wouldn't necessarily be a guaranteed starter, but I think he would be worth giving a shot at the role.

Other wing forward types include Isaac Smith, who is out of contract and clearly on our radar based on past dealings. I would also like us to look at Brett Bewley from Freo. He isn't super pacy but links up well, is a nice long kick and I think he would offer a good composed link into our forwardline, also ooc. Oleg Markov from Richmond seems to be more of a half back but seems like a very direct player who has pace. Could Fiorini be worth looking at from Gold Coast? He strikes m as a Hunter type, and has struggled for game there this year, but has been highly rated in the past.

As for the crumbing role it would seem the out of contract Jack Lonie is the front runner. I haven't been huge on him in the past but do think he has some attributes that improve us, but I'm not sure if he is the long term solution, more of a stop gap. Another to consider could be Lachie Schultz from Freo. He isn't as exciting as I'd like but i think he is an effective crumbing forward and is also out of contract. Others who have had encouraging performances at AFL level this year and are out of contract include Ben Ronke, Toby Bedford, Brad Close, Jake Aarts and Boyd Woodcock, as well as ex employee Jamaine Jones.

I know that's a lot of names, but we have a lot of list spots to fill in my proposal. I'd be particularly keen on us really chasing Daicos.

If we could get a haul of something like Cox, Payne, McEvoy, Parfitt, Bewley, Lonie I think we are a much better side. Even if they are not better players than the ones they replace, i think the attributes they offer to our side make us better. There is a good chance three to four of those guys come effectively for free, and Parfitt would be the only one that would really cost something. We probably end up with approx 4 draft picks at the end of this, which we should be juggling around to get max points value for. Ideally we come out of the draft with no draft points deficit, and JUH, Raak and two very late picks on our list. I'd be very open to the late picks being guys that performed in WA or one of the other leagues that operated this year, or even use it to give a delisted guy another chance.

If you've made it this far I'm very impressed, I hope this promotes some discussion about who is available and what we can do, at the very least it's enabled me to have a very long winded think about it all out loud. Also there are heaps more options, I just got exhausted listing the out of contract ones so there are heaps more that are under contract.

[FrediKanoute]

Sterling effort Soupaman. I agree with most. I think we need more pace, so I would favour pacey mid-forwards. We were cut to pieces over the course of they year because our mids are largely one paced and Wallis as our small forward has no pace.

[AshMac]

Big yes to Goldstein.

Is he worth a 2021 first rounder? Kind of. I mean in the current trade market no one is paying that for a 32 year old ruckman, but that isn't to say he isn't worth it.

Would love Goldy, but a 2021 first round pick for a 32 year old in a team openly telling players to look elsewhere and dying to offload age and salary space so they can begin their very public rebuild?

If Sam power has any negotiation prowess - We take his salary off them for the next 2 years and give them a packet of twisties! Chicken flavour. Snack size.

[Happy Days]

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2020/10/04/todd-goldstein-determined-to-remain-a-roo-despite-reports/

So maybe Goldstein is out. That was a fun 12 hours or so.

[comrade]

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2020/10/04/todd-goldstein-determined-to-remain-a-roo-despite-reports/

So maybe Goldstein is out. That was a fun 12 hours or so.

North probably realise it's insanity to just rely on a young, undersized ruckman without any support or guidance from a genuine, experienced ruckman on the list.

Oh...

[AshMac]

North probably realise it's insanity to just rely on a young, undersized ruckman without any support or guidance from a genuine, experienced ruckman on the list.

Oh...

That’s super obvious though to any team though righ.... oh wait....

[Dry Rot]

Interesting analysis of us here

https://www.theroar.com.au/2020/10/05/breaking-down-the-bulldogs-in-2020/

Thoughts?

[jeemak]

Thanks DR.

I'm on record as wanting Naughton back in defence, it immediately solves a massive issue for us and enables us to try other things forward of the centre.

[DOG GOD]

Interesting analysis of us here

https://www.theroar.com.au/2020/10/05/breaking-down-the-bulldogs-in-2020/

Thoughts?

Pretty much spot on. It’s obvious we need a top tier ruckman, and goldy is the ideal choice. Another key defender is a given as well. I’ve been an advocate of Naughton to defence even if we acquired a key defender because I honestly don’t rate cordy or Gardner. I still believe a Bruest/Gunston/miochek is required to add that goal kicking class, plus a speedy crumbing fwd.

Our fwd line needs more pace so wouldn’t mind seeing JJ moved to a HFF, as Williams has stamped that defensive position.

[AshMac]

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2020/10/04/todd-goldstein-determined-to-remain-a-roo-despite-reports/

So maybe Goldstein is out. That was a fun 12 hours or so.

This looks like a standard tactic to raise the price of someone in a trade - page one of the traders textbook.

Only Bevo goes out in media and devalues a player before trading them.

[Mofra]

Only Bevo goes out in media and devalues a player before trading them.
North have done a pretty good job at that with Ben Brown.

[Mofra]

What do we think of 2MP as a ruck/forward pairing with English? He's 'ok' at both although not overly quick.
Maribyrnong educated so has a bit of westie in his veins, and more importantly he's gettable.

Josh Bruce to drop a few kgs and learns how to defend again. He and Naughton as genuine swingmen, Lewie Young their apprentice. It changes the shape of our entire list.

[The Doctor]

What do we think of 2MP as a ruck/forward pairing with English? He's 'ok' at both although not overly quick.
Maribyrnong educated so has a bit of westie in his veins, and more importantly he's gettable.

Josh Bruce to drop a few kgs and learns how to defend again. He and Naughton as genuine swingmen, Lewie Young their apprentice. It changes the shape of our entire list.

I don't think 2MP is any good.

Bruce has to get fit, fullstop. Then we work out what is best for him. We need a key defender so that is certainly an option. Also I prefer Schache in the forward line as he is more mobile, a better kick and I would argue a much smarter forward in that he leads better & makes space for others. I think we had more functionality when he was up forward last year.

[azabob]

What do we think of 2MP as a ruck/forward pairing with English? He's 'ok' at both although not overly quick.
Maribyrnong educated so has a bit of westie in his veins, and more importantly he's gettable.

Josh Bruce to drop a few kgs and learns how to defend again. He and Naughton as genuine swingmen, Lewie Young their apprentice. It changes the shape of our entire list.

Why wasn't Peter Wright playing regular footy before Ben King arrived? That is my concern.

Josh Bruce is comfortable and being rewarded for doing what he is doing. He didn't work as a defender when he was trying to make it early in his career. I can't see him embracing the change in the twilight of his career.

[comrade]

Why wasn't Peter Wright playing regular footy before Ben King arrived? That is my concern.

Josh Bruce is comfortable and being rewarded for doing what he is doing. He didn't work as a defender when he was trying to make it early in his career. I can't see him embracing the change in the twilight of his career.

Yeah you don't trade in a 28 year old key forward on good money on a 4 year deal, playing him all season inside 50 and 2nd year in try to shoe horn him into defence.

[The Doctor]

So who do we target?

The ruck is the hardest spot to fill. Where do you find a ready to go main ruck that is decent around the ground and may be available. North have Goldstein, he is clearly the biggest fish on the table. I love Ladhams from Port and think he'd be a great get, but don't see how. Nankervis has been brought up here before and is a good shout (and also out of contract), he isn't a world beater but is physical and reliable, unfortunately Soldo's knee injury makes him harder to pry from the Tigers. I do not rate Preuss at all so not him please. A left field option could be Ben McEvoy, Hawthorn aren't too attached to their experienced guys and McEvoy could be a cheap and effective option. After that there isn't much, plan B could be to try to find a forward ruck type that supports English and can help elsewhere. Possible targets for that are Darcy Fort (I actually think he is terrible), Callum Sinclair and Nathan Vardy, not great. So a limited pool with not many options unless we somehow pry an established starting ruck from a club.

The key defender posts are next on the list. There are a few candidates here. The first I would be looking at is Brennan Cox from Freo. Long limbed, strong mark and good in that anchor defensive position, and should be available relatively cheaply. I think he is a better version of Gardner. Another less established option is Jackson Payne. Big boy who had some encouraging performances this season for Brisbane, and is up against it for a spot with their depth. Jake Carlisle seems like a bit of a numpty, but he could also offer a cost effective option as an anchor defender and gives us marking power. Aliir Aliir is a weird player but I think he is decent, offers us size and versatility and could be interested in a move. Possible alternative could be Jarrod Brander, doesn't seem to be getting a game at West Coast, is a key forward i think but could maybe swing back.

Now to the many forwardish positions that need filling.

Would love us to have a real dip for Josh Daicos for the mid/forward role. Is creative, has goal sense and is basically a really good version of Lipinski. Not sure what he would cost though. Brandan Parfitt is another that I really like that offers good tackling pressure, and can swap between the two roles. Xavier O'Halloran is another that fits the bill here, but is largely unproven at AFL level. Is already linked to us by the media. All those guys are out of contract which is encouraging, I'd be really trying to get one of them across (particularly the first two).

Quinton Narkle could be a candidate for the mid/forward or wing/forward role. Smooth moving, pacy and seems to have goal sense, and hasn't signed a contract yet. Wouldn't necessarily be a guaranteed starter, but I think he would be worth giving a shot at the role.

Other wing forward types include Isaac Smith, who is out of contract and clearly on our radar based on past dealings. I would also like us to look at Brett Bewley from Freo. He isn't super pacy but links up well, is a nice long kick and I think he would offer a good composed link into our forwardline, also ooc. Oleg Markov from Richmond seems to be more of a half back but seems like a very direct player who has pace. Could Fiorini be worth looking at from Gold Coast? He strikes m as a Hunter type, and has struggled for game there this year, but has been highly rated in the past.

As for the crumbing role it would seem the out of contract Jack Lonie is the front runner. I haven't been huge on him in the past but do think he has some attributes that improve us, but I'm not sure if he is the long term solution, more of a stop gap. Another to consider could be Lachie Schultz from Freo. He isn't as exciting as I'd like but i think he is an effective crumbing forward and is also out of contract. Others who have had encouraging performances at AFL level this year and are out of contract include Ben Ronke, Toby Bedford, Brad Close, Jake Aarts and Boyd Woodcock, as well as ex employee Jamaine Jones.

I know that's a lot of names, but we have a lot of list spots to fill in my proposal. I'd be particularly keen on us really chasing Daicos.

If we could get a haul of something like Cox, Payne, McEvoy, Parfitt, Bewley, Lonie I think we are a much better side. Even if they are not better players than the ones they replace, i think the attributes they offer to our side make us better. There is a good chance three to four of those guys come effectively for free, and Parfitt would be the only one that would really cost something. We probably end up with approx 4 draft picks at the end of this, which we should be juggling around to get max points value for. Ideally we come out of the draft with no draft points deficit, and JUH, Raak and two very late picks on our list. I'd be very open to the late picks being guys that performed in WA or one of the other leagues that operated this year, or even use it to give a delisted guy another chance.

If you've made it this far I'm very impressed, I hope this promotes some discussion about who is available and what we can do, at the very least it's enabled me to have a very long winded think about it all out loud. Also there are heaps more options, I just got exhausted listing the out of contract ones so there are heaps more that are under contract.

Some really well thought out analysis here Soupaman.

I really like the Daicos suggestion. It would seem unlikely he would be available but if they are struggling to fit in all of Moore, De Goey, Mihocek etc and there was a chance we should be having a real dip.

There are a few cheap but decent options out there if we are willing to have a crack.

I also like the Jake Aarts suggestion. He is a very lively small forward and is around 26yo. On output he would be an upgrade on Cavarra so far in their respective AFL careers. Being a rookie listed player we could get him for nothing in terms of draft picks, he would qualify as a DFA if we offered him a primary list position.

Peter Ladhams, the ruckman from Port like Aarts, is still a rookie listed player and we could get him the same way. He will be 23 and while he may not be Goldstein he would be the cheaper option and he can play. Have liked him since his u/18 year.

We have long been linked with Isaac Smith who could still be a FA option for us. Bur what about Lewis Jetta? He is actually a bit younger than Smith and a 2 time premiership player who might be available.

Jake Carlisle will be 29 next year and in his prime for a key defender and could easily anchor our defence. I get all the numpty accusations but what do we want? A team of choir boys? He's a very good player and I actually liked he went home to be with his wife for the birth of their child. It looks like Saints will let him go so I doubt he would cost much more than a late pick or possibly even be a DFA.

In a year where we have limited draft picks some of these boys would help fill holes in our list without incurring heavy cost and all would be expected to play round 1 next year.

[Axe Man]

Ladhams would be great but he is not a rookie, is contracted until the end of 2022 and pretty sure there would be no way Port is letting him go unless you offer them massive overs. Would cost more than Goldstein.

[The Doctor]

Ladhams would be great but he is not a rookie, is contracted until the end of 2022 and pretty sure there would be no way Port is letting him go unless you offer them massive overs. Would cost more than Goldstein.

Not sure of his contract status but isn't he still on the rookie list?

[bornadog]

Why wasn't Peter Wright playing regular footy before Ben King arrived? That is my concern.

He played 17 games last year, not sure if he was injured or not?

[The Doctor]

Ladhams would be great but he is not a rookie, is contracted until the end of 2022 and pretty sure there would be no way Port is letting him go unless you offer them massive overs. Would cost more than Goldstein.

yep you're right he's contracted til 2022, just found the article confirming it. cheers

[Happy Days]

Ladhams would be great but he is not a rookie, is contracted until the end of 2022 and pretty sure there would be no way Port is letting him go unless you offer them massive overs. Would cost more than Goldstein.

Yeah I floated him but was under the misunderstanding that he wasn’t contracted. They’d rightfully ask for his weight in gold.

[The Doctor]

I still want Ben King.

We will be in a better position next year to make a play for him when he comes out of contract and we will have better draft assets to work with.

He will cost 2 first rounders for sure I would think.

So my idea to make it happen looks like this

Collingwood mooted an idea a few weeks back about swapping first round picks with us. They get our 2020 first and we get there 2021 first or something similar with another club.

That doesn't help us with Jamarra this year so I would be looking to then move out our 2021 2nd round for 2020 picks that would be worth at least the equivalent in points if not more. There is bound to be clubs keen to get into next years draft inside the first 2 rounds.

If that comes off we have 2 first rounders as a platform to build a deal around. We just have to wait a year. It would be worth the wait.

[GVGjr]

What do we think of 2MP as a ruck/forward pairing with English? He's 'ok' at both although not overly quick.
Maribyrnong educated so has a bit of westie in his veins, and more importantly he's gettable.

Josh Bruce to drop a few kgs and learns how to defend again. He and Naughton as genuine swingmen, Lewie Young their apprentice. It changes the shape of our entire list.

I think it would be a decent pairing but it would need either Bruce or Naughton to move to the backline and I'm not sure that will happen.

[bornadog]

I think it would be a decent pairing but it would need either Bruce or Naughton to move to the backline and I'm not sure that will happen.

Well maybe for the good of the team, one has to move?

PS: who is 2MP?

[Grantysghost]

Well maybe for the good of the team, one has to move?

PS: who is 2MP?

"2 Metre Peter" Wright from Suns.

[GVGjr]

Well maybe for the good of the team, one has to move?

PS: who is 2MP?

Peter Wright from the Suns

[azabob]

What is the situation with Josh Caddy?

Appears to be on the outer at Richmond. Which is a common theme for him - happened at Geelong also.

He seems to be able to play as a medium forward who can take a mark and kick a goal.

[bornadog]

Peter Wright from the Suns

Argh, my suggestion earlier that got shot down by Sedat. :D

[SquirrelGrip]

In the lead-in to the Elimination Final, Bevo spoke a number of times about the size of our big men compared to the size of the Saints big men. We are sure to recruit someone 2m+, more than likely for a key position rather than ruck.

[GVGjr]

Well maybe for the good of the team, one has to move?

PS: who is 2MP?

Bruce isn't quick and I think we have a preference for the more mobile tall's in the back line so that might mean it's more likely to be Naughton but moving a player who is capable of kicking 50 goals in a season doesn't quite seem right to me

[bornadog]

Bruce isn't quick and I think we have a preference for the more mobile tall's in the back line so that might mean it's more likely to be Naughton but moving a player who is capable of kicking 50 goals in a season doesn't quite seem right to me

True.

We have played Naughton, Bruce and English up forward, so 2MP, could interchange with English - Ruck/Forward, so maybe we don't move either?

Can Schache be reinvented as a backman, ala Liam Jones

[GVGjr]

In the lead-in to the Elimination Final, Bevo spoke a number of times about the size of our big men compared to the size of the Saints big men. We are sure to recruit someone 2m+, more than likely for a key position rather than ruck.

It was interesting in what he said, Ryder plays taller than his 197cm height and that they had (was it?) 7 players around that height
He then said something about they caught us with their pace.
Perhaps we need to strike a better balance if we can recruit well

[Bulldog4life]

Would love Goldy, but a 2021 first round pick for a 32 year old in a team openly telling players to look elsewhere and dying to offload age and salary space so they can begin their very public rebuild?

If Sam power has any negotiation prowess - We take his salary off them for the next 2 years and give them a packet of twisties! Chicken flavour. Snack size.

Goldy has strongly made it know he wants to be a one club player. Not everyone wants to leave their club.

[GVGjr]

True.

We have played Naughton, Bruce and English up forward, so 2MP, could interchange with English - Ruck/Forward, so maybe we don't move either?

Can Schache be reinvented as a backman, ala Liam Jones

I'd like to think so but I just don't see it. We haven't got a great track record in developing KP players

Sweet, Trengove, Lewis Young and Schache played a combined 4 senior games this season and in a season where the coaches recent comments were about a lack of height. I think this means we will be looking elsewhere to address our needs

[bornadog]

I'd like to think so but I just don't see it. We haven't got a great track record in developing KP players

Sweet, Trengove, Lewis Young and Schache played a combined 4 senior games this season and in a season where the coaches recent comments were about a lack of height. I think this means we will be looking elsewhere to address our needs

I am writing off this season as far as player development is concerned with no VFL.

I can't see a new contract for Trengove, which means we will be desperate for a backup ruckman.

[SquirrelGrip]

Schack did have a number of injuries in the second half of the season. True he was dropped savagely but really never had the time to work on it uninjured and push for a place. The potential plus side with Schack is worth keeping him on, particularly ahead of players like Dale, Gowers, Greene and Lloyd, and with Dicko retired. He's our mobile forward mid who happens to be a lot taller.

Can we find him a mentor who will turn it around for him? Johnno maybe?

[SquirrelGrip]

In the lead-in to the Elimination Final, Bevo spoke a number of times about the size of our big men compared to the size of the Saints big men. We are sure to recruit someone 2m+, more than likely for a key position rather than ruck.

Here are the current AFL players 2m+ (courtesy of https://www.zerohanger.com/afl/players/tallest-shortest/see-all-height/). Any takers?

PLAYER HEIGHTS
6 ft 11 in
Sam Alabakis, Mason Cox

6 ft 10 in
Jarrod Witts, Max Gawn, Ned Reeves

6 ft 9 in
Rory Lobb, Sam Naismith, Braydon Preuss, Zac Smith, Darcy Cameron, Timothy English, Michael Knoll, Oscar McInerney

6 ft 8 in
Austin Bradtke, Jonathon Ceglar, Darcy Fort, Eric Hipwood, Lachlan Keeffe, Harry McKay, Ivan Soldo, Kieran Strachan, Tom De Koning, Sam Draper, Brodie Grundy, Sam Hayes, Scott Lycett, Lloyd Meek, Darcy Moore, Jordon Sweet, Peter Wright, Tom Bellchambers, Nick Bryan, Sean Darcy, Ben King, Max King, Peter Ladhams, Reilly O'Brien, Marc Pittonet

6 ft 7 in
Harris Andrews, Tom Campbell, Levi Casboult, Todd Goldstein, Tom Hickey, Rowan Marshall, Ben McKay, Nic Naitanui, Alex Pearce, Andrew Phillips, Tristan Xerri, Ryan Abbott, Connor Ballenden, Kieren Briggs, Ben Brown, Jake Carlisle, Mabior Chol, Callum Coleman-Jones, Joe Daniher, Sam DeKoning, Charlie Dixon, Matthew Flynn, Billy Frampton, Tom Fullarton, Sam Jacobs, Callum Jamieson, Josh Jenkins, Matthew Kreuzer, Max Lynch, Ben McEvoy, Jordan Roughead, Callum Sinclair, Rhys Stanley, Rory Thompson, Nathan Vardy

[bornadog]

I don't understand feet and inches anymore. :D

As Rocco says, just because they are tall, doesn't mean they can play. We need to really vett who we chase.

[SquirrelGrip]

I don't understand feet and inches anymore. :D

As Rocco says, just because they are tall, doesn't mean they can play. We need to really vett who we chase.

So 6 ft 7in is just over 200cm. Based on what Bevo says and our lack of height, let's vet from this list of players over 200cm. Is Alex Pearce an option?

[The Doctor]

Schack did have a number of injuries in the second half of the season. True he was dropped savagely but really never had the time to work on it uninjured and push for a place. The potential plus side with Schack is worth keeping him on, particularly ahead of players like Dale, Gowers, Greene and Lloyd, and with Dicko retired. He's our mobile forward mid who happens to be a lot taller.

Can we find him a mentor who will turn it around for him? Johnno maybe?

What about Chris Grant?

I think Schache has not been handled all that well by the club this year. There are certainly things in his game the club wants him to better at which is fair enough but they also came out and publicly said he needed to be more aggressive, physical etc. It implied he wouldn't play until he developed that side of his game.

What I don't get then is the hypocrisy of then playing Lipinski who is arguably the softest player on our list and was a complete liability in a final for the 2nd year in a row.

As I said in another thread I think our forward line functions better, generally, with Schache in it. He leads well, is more mobile than Bruce, and a very good set shot. In 2019 with him in the team we were the 3rd highest scoring team. This year without him, but Bruce in, we were the 6th highest scoring team.

I'd like to see us persevere with Schache a bit more.

[SquirrelGrip]

What about Chris Grant?

I think Schache has not been handled all that well by the club this year. There are certainly things in his game the club wants him to better at which is fair enough but they also came out and publicly said he needed to be more aggressive, physical etc. It implied he wouldn't play until he developed that side of his game.

What I don't get then is the hypocrisy of then playing Lipinski who is arguably the softest player on our list and was a complete liability in a final for the 2nd year in a row.

As I said in another thread I think our forward line functions better, generally, with Schache in it. He leads well, is more mobile than Bruce, and a very good set shot. In 2019 with him in the team we were the 3rd highest scoring team. This year without him, but Bruce in, we were the 6th highest scoring team.

I'd like to see us persevere with Schache a bit more.

Chris Grant is another good mentor option for him. There is definite upside with Schache. The reason I suggested Johnno is because I think his success is going to be as that mobile forward mid rather than a Chris Grant key position physical and aggressive player. Johnno is our club's best ever mobile forward mid.

[soupman]

Is Alex Pearce an option?

That's why I brought up Brennan Cox earlier. Pearce is their first choice tall defender (along with Logue), but was injured a fair bit of this year. Pearce is very good, and they'll be keen to keep him. But they won't play all three of those guys, meaning Cox, who acquitted himself quite well in the absence of the other two should be available and for a reasonable price.

I would be happy to go for Pearce but he will cost a lot more and is very injury prone.

[SquirrelGrip]

That's why I brought up Brennan Cox earlier. Pearce is their first choice tall defender (along with Logue), but was injured a fair bit of this year. Pearce is very good, and they'll be keen to keep him. But they won't play all three of those guys, meaning Cox, who acquitted himself quite well in the absence of the other two should be available and for a reasonable price.

I would be happy to go for Pearce but he will cost a lot more and is very injury prone.

And I guess getting Hamling back is probably thereabouts too.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

It was interesting in what he said, Ryder plays taller than his 197cm height and that they had (was it?) 7 players around that height
He then said something about they caught us with their pace.
Perhaps we need to strike a better balance if we can recruit well

They have Marshall, Ryder, Howard, King and Carlisle at that height compared to us with Naughton, Bruce, English, Keath, Gardner and Cordy. So we had more "tall" players but 4 out of their 5 are 200cm+ as opposed to just 1 for us. Then you need to consider the physicality of their bigs compared to ours.

On the other end, they have a great blend of speed whereas we are quite slow. They've got Hill, Jones (although I don't think he's as quick as the media make out), Clark, Butler, Billings, Sinclair and even Lonie can be quick of a step (not over distance). Us? Well we have JJ and Richards and to a degree Smith.

The saints have a great blend of physical talls and speed at ground level. They've got a great balance. We don't. We have talls who don't like physical contact save for Naughton, Bruce and Keath. Then we have one-paced mids who either don't like physical contact, or they can't kick with any penetration. Bont and Smith are the exceptions. On their own, the players on our list are good footballers. But as a team they don't complement eachother at all.

[soupman]

I really like the Daicos suggestion. It would seem unlikely he would be available but if they are struggling to fit in all of Moore, De Goey, Mihocek etc and there was a chance we should be having a real dip.


Yep at worst we make life tough for Collingwood and I think we really lack that creative half forward type that brings others into the game and is dangerous himself, man i wish we went after him at the end of last year when he was worth nothing.



We have long been linked with Isaac Smith who could still be a FA option for us. Bur what about Lewis Jetta? He is actually a bit younger than Smith and a 2 time premiership player who might be available.


That's a good suggestion and one I hadn't considered. His kicking is awesome too which could be a real point of difference to Hunter.

Interesting that there are many indigenous players available that seem to fit our needs this year. If we come out of this off season again lamenting that the reason we don't have any indigenous blokes on our list is because there weren't any available I will be very disappointed, JUH should definitely have company.




Jake Carlisle will be 29 next year and in his prime for a key defender and could easily anchor our defence. I get all the numpty accusations but what do we want? A team of choir boys? He's a very good player and I actually liked he went home to be with his wife for the birth of their child. It looks like Saints will let him go so I doubt he would cost much more than a late pick or possibly even be a DFA.


I've never really liked him before but i have really warmed to the idea. We don't need him to star, but to have a huge guy like him with a pretty impressive grab makes the roles of Keath and Gardner/Cordy so much easier. Sure he is slow but if he plays that anchor role in defence I think we could make it work.



In a year where we have limited draft picks some of these boys would help fill holes in our list without incurring heavy cost and all would be expected to play round 1 next year.

And the thing is we love handing out multiple years to marginal talents to give them every chance of succeeding (see Dale, Lynch, Smith, Sweet, Hayes, Khamis, Greene). Why don't we grab some of these guys that have shown glimpses (or more) at AFL level, fill areas of need and have a point of difference to the rest of our list, could have an impact immediately and all save us that first year or two of investment in a draftee new to the AFL system.

[soupman]

Also big no to Peter Wright. After Josh Bruce and Tom Boyd I don't want yet another lumbering tall who is a mediocre mark, liability on the ground and wouldn't even be on a list if they were 10cm's shorter.

[jazzadogs]

Bruce was disappointing, unfit and struggled to adapt to our structure this year. This does not mean that the trade is a failure and he will never play a good game for us. Here are his highlights from only 12 months ago - while there is always a chance that he won't get this speed and agility back, I think you could visibly see that he was fitter as season 2020 went on.


https://youtu.be/lIJn5kzsPRs

FWIW, I also really like Schache and would love to see him get more opportunities.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

There's no doubt that Schache gets judged on what he can't do, as opposed to what he can do. Our forward half was so STAGNANT this year, the movement was awful and one of the only games it actually HAD movement was v Norf when Schache played (and played well).

I do think his lack of urgency/aggression is a concern, but he's the most natural forward on our list (minus Dickson who's retired). The key with Schache is putting the right players around him and that's high energy forwards who can apply pressure.

The problem is that Wallis, Lloyd, Dale, Weightman, Bruce, Lipinski etc. are all horrible at applying pressure, so they don't compliment Schache.

It may become a question of playing only one from that list above, max of 2. I like Wallis and respect what he's done, but a slow medium forward who doesn't pressure and relies on 1-v-1's? I'll pick Schache.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Bruce was disappointing, unfit and struggled to adapt to our structure this year. This does not mean that the trade is a failure and he will never play a good game for us. Here are his highlights from only 12 months ago - while there is always a chance that he won't get this speed and agility back, I think you could visibly see that he was fitter as season 2020 went on.


https://youtu.be/lIJn5kzsPRs

FWIW, I also really like Schache and would love to see him get more opportunities.

Yeah I'm not writing him off just yet. He's capable of so much better. Plus it would be very difficult being a forward for us with our putrid delivery and setup. That's not to excuse him, he's been poor and obviously unfit but any forward for us is up against it.

[bornadog]

There's no doubt that Schache gets judged on what he can't do, as opposed to what he can do. Our forward half was so STAGNANT this year, the movement was awful and one of the only games it actually HAD movement was v Norf when Schache played (and played well).

I do think his lack of urgency/aggression is a concern, but he's the most natural forward on our list (minus Dickson who's retired). The key with Schache is putting the right players around him and that's high energy forwards who can apply pressure.

The problem is that Wallis, Lloyd, Dale, Weightman, Bruce, Lipinski etc. are all horrible at applying pressure, so they don't compliment Schache.

It may become a question of playing only one from that list above, max of 2. I like Wallis and respect what he's done, but a slow medium forward who doesn't pressure and relies on 1-v-1's? I'll pick Schache.

Agree, we can't play all those players together. We really need a small pressure forward who can also crumb the ball and kick goals.

Back in Rockets day, we were one of the highest scoring teams, and there were at least 4 players that kicked 20 plus goals each for the year. We need more contributors.

[soupman]

Yeah I'm not writing him off just yet. He's capable of so much better. Plus it would be very difficult being a forward for us with our putrid delivery and setup. That's not to excuse him, he's been poor and obviously unfit but any forward for us is up against it.

He is, which means its frustrating to see him not being dropped for being so much worse than he should be. I don't get to keep my job because I have the potential to do it to a competent standard.

[SquirrelGrip]

Do we have a Round 1 Team 2021 thread yet?

What's our best lineup moving forward? Who will be next year's Flying Dutchman/Bailey Williams and take the big step up? West, Garcia, Butler, Weightman?

[bornadog]

Do we have a Round 1 Team 2021 thread yet?

What's our best lineup moving forward? Who will be next year's Flying Dutchman/Bailey Williams and take the big step up? West, Garcia, Butler, Weightman?

You can always start one up.

[comrade]

Do we have a Round 1 Team 2021 thread yet?

What's our best lineup moving forward? Who will be next year's Flying Dutchman/Bailey Williams and take the big step up? West, Garcia, Butler, Weightman?

I'm hopeful Garcia brings some pace and intensity to our forward line.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

He is, which means its frustrating to see him not being dropped for being so much worse than he should be. I don't get to keep my job because I have the potential to do it to a competent standard.

I agree. It's perplexing how he kept his spot all season yet Schache gets banished for one poor game in the wet.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I'm hopeful Garcia brings some pace and intensity to our forward line.

These are the two fundamental qualities we need to bring into our side. Oh and a ruckman.

[Danjul]

What about Chris Grant?

I think Schache has not been handled all that well by the club this year. There are certainly things in his game the club wants him to better at which is fair enough but they also came out and publicly said he needed to be more aggressive, physical etc. It implied he wouldn't play until he developed that side of his game.

What I don't get then is the hypocrisy of then playing Lipinski who is arguably the softest player on our list and was a complete liability in a final for the 2nd year in a row.

As I said in another thread I think our forward line functions better, generally, with Schache in it. He leads well, is more mobile than Bruce, and a very good set shot. In 2019 with him in the team we were the 3rd highest scoring team. This year without him, but Bruce in, we were the 6th highest scoring team.

I'd like to see us persevere with Schache a bit more.
Schache clearly doesn’t meet any of the benchmarks the club has set for inclusion in the team. And that’s fair enough, we have lofty aspirations and have set the bar higher than most players can achieve.

Specialists like him need an certain environment that allows them to apply their talents, and what the Dogs are developing is not appropriate for everyone.

The club is clearly searching for a blend of Gowers, Bruce, Richards, Gardner etc. You know, that blend of speed, aggression, batshit crazy and rawness that opposition coaches will not be able to handle. Anyone out there that fits the bill can simply walk into the team. You are clearly our launch pad to another great year (like the last four).

[azabob]

That's why I brought up Brennan Cox earlier. Pearce is their first choice tall defender (along with Logue), but was injured a fair bit of this year. Pearce is very good, and they'll be keen to keep him. But they won't play all three of those guys, meaning Cox, who acquitted himself quite well in the absence of the other two should be available and for a reasonable price.

I would be happy to go for Pearce but he will cost a lot more and is very injury prone.

I raised Cox in this very thread back in August. I now get the impression being an SA boy, Crows are in the box seat.

[soupman]

I raised Cox in this very thread back in August. I now get the impression being an SA boy, Crows are in the box seat.

It's a good call, I'm hoping that Adelaide are content with their developing talls like Butts and Doedee (and maybe Lewis Young).