List Management for 2020/21

[Danjul]

So are you saying that Josh Dunkley should be played in the ruck ongoing?

What I have said consistently for 3 years is the ruck is a job for developed ruckmen.

The Dogs have a different view.

Every time We have used Dunkley, Macrae etc we have lost the momentum and the opposition has gained advantage. It has cost games, most recently the final.

That is not criticism of the players. But we we play a style where the team is less than the sum of the parts.

(The only success was Cordy against Goldstein late in the game in2019. I think he got 8 hitouts. allowed English to go forward and get a couple of goals )

[bornadog]

What I have said consistently for 3 years is the ruck is a job for developed ruckmen.

This is the list management thread, so I would love to hear what your solution is going forward? We know what has happened over the past three or so years, so let's get a solution for the future. Something that is realistic.

[Mofra]

This is the list management thread, so I would love to hear what your solution is going forward? We know what has happened over the past three or so years, so let's get a solution for the future. Something that is realistic.
I honestly think Stef Martin works for us - English is close to ready and will be better prepared after two more pre-seasons.

He enables English to be managed through the year as there is no way Martin plays every game. He gets to train day in, day out against an experienced, mature ruck this pre-season.

[SonofScray]

I honestly think Stef Martin works for us - English is close to ready and will be better prepared after two more pre-seasons.

He enables English to be managed through the year as there is no way Martin plays every game. He gets to train day in, day out against an experienced, mature ruck this pre-season.

We needed meat and potatoes in the ruck at various points. JT could ave done the job IMO but for whatever reason the Club opted not to use him. Here's where I saw things a few weeks ago:

Play JT, or
Get Goldstein, or
Get Martin.

Martin is coming across after the fact, that's my fear, but I think the idea has merit.

[The Underdog]

Gardner and Sweet both with 1 year contract extensions on the rookie list.
Sensible calls on both.

[Bulldog4life]

Josh has always been just a little laconic but is it fixable? I honestly didn't think he would succeed when I first saw him play.

Just needs a cracker up his bum sometimes.

[Bulldog4life]

Trading is about getting players on the upswing, not paying big dollars for past performance and getting the worst of it. I'd take Caldwell on 500k before I'd take Treloar on 700+

Yes and Treloar is 7 to 8 years older with a some hammy problems which is a worry.

[Danjul]

This is the list management thread, so I would love to hear what your solution is going forward? We know what has happened over the past three or so years, so let's get a solution for the future. Something that is realistic.
Scott Wynd was 102 cm and 108kg.
Minson: 199 And 106 kg.

English is 106 cm and 100 kg.
Simply the wrong proportions to succeed against wrestlers.

English can’t compete against greater power density, the laws of physics are against him. His opponents can use leverage against him.

Excellent design for a second ruck though. They don’t usually have to compete against monsters. And he is so talented in all other aspects.

If fit Martin might be a good interim move. Need to find a shorter/heavier ruckman for the long term. I suspect the whole team will seem better with this one modification.

[soupman]

Scott Wynd was 102 cm and 108kg.


Ruckmen clearly used to be a lot more nuggety.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Ruckmen clearly used to be a lot more nuggety.

And we all thought Libba was tiny

[bornadog]

Ruckmen clearly used to be a lot more nuggety.

Legend, and Champion Brownlow medalist, John Schultz was 191cm.

[Templeton31]

Ruckmen clearly used to be a lot more nuggety.

His leap was unbelievable tho.

[G-Mo77]

If Hannan has replaced Gowers on the list, has the list improved?

If Stef Martin replaces Trengove on the list, has the list improved?

If Treloar replaces Dunkley on the list, has the list improved?

It seems like a very sideways trade period for us at the moment, at best.

I do like the Treloar move. Contract is alarming but IMO we would be better with him over Dunkley.

The other 2 are following the same path of all our "moneyball" selections over the last few years. Martin I'm lukewarm on, it'll certainly help English to have a seasoned ruck beside him but are we too late to bringing him in? Hannan for nostalgic reasons I like but yeah, it doesn't improve us at all.

These are our trades/FA signings since we won the flag and this doesn't show who we've lost or let go in that time. It's horrific! Crozier and Keath are the only 2 pass marks, the rest are coming here to extend their careers a little longer. We have seem to have this strategy that a teams trash is our treasure, wasted lists spots, wasted game time when they've actually played. We'd have been better off scouring the state leagues and recruiting from there rather than bringing in most of these guys.

Cloke 2016
Crozier 2017
Schache 2017
Trengove 2017
Lloyd 2018
Duryea 2018
Bruce 2019
Keath 2019

[azabob]

Scott Wynd was 102 cm and 108kg.
Minson: 199 And 106 kg.

English is 106 cm and 100 kg.
Simply the wrong proportions to succeed against wrestlers.

English can’t compete against greater power density, the laws of physics are against him. His opponents can use leverage against him.

Excellent design for a second ruck though. They don’t usually have to compete against monsters. And he is so talented in all other aspects.

If fit Martin might be a good interim move. Need to find a shorter/heavier ruckman for the long term. I suspect the whole team will seem better with this one modification.

How many wrestlers are in the league these days?

Grundy 202 - 100kg
Nik Nat 201 - 110kg
Goldstien 201 - 102kg
Nankervis 199 - 102kg
Gawn 208 - 109kg

I'd argue English struggles against players who are his equivalent in mobility Ryder, Marshall, Grundy, etc.

[Bulldog Joe]

How many wrestlers are in the league these days?

Grundy 202 - 100kg
Nik Nat 201 - 110kg
Goldstien 201 - 102kg
Nankervis 199 - 102kg
Gawn 208 - 109kg

I'd argue English struggles against players who are his equivalent in mobility Ryder, Marshall, Grundy, etc.

I'd argue English struggles with players who actually know how to ruck.

[Danjul]

Ruckmen clearly used to be a lot more nuggety.
Well spotted, I’ll try to do better next time.

[Hotdog60]

Sweet 203cm and 106kg

[The Adelaide Connection]

Scott Wynd was 102 cm and 108kg.
Minson: 199 And 106 kg.

English is 106 cm and 100 kg.
Simply the wrong proportions to succeed against wrestlers.

English can’t compete against greater power density, the laws of physics are against him. His opponents can use leverage against him.

Excellent design for a second ruck though. They don’t usually have to compete against monsters. And he is so talented in all other aspects.

If fit Martin might be a good interim move. Need to find a shorter/heavier ruckman for the long term. I suspect the whole team will seem better with this one modification.

On these numbers, Wyndy and English could get a gig delivering the one ring to Mordor.

[Vred]

Sweet 203cm and 106kg

Honestly Im of the opinion that we really need to get some AFL time into Sweet, I've watched him in VFL, he has the physicality and mungral that is needed in a ruck, and his a very good tap ruck at that, yes, he struggles around the ground, but honestly I hope he gets to see some AFL time because I do think he could have the makings of our number 1 Ruck when paired with English.

[1eyedog]

On these numbers, Wyndy and English could get a gig delivering the one ring to Mordor.

Might have to lose a few kegs first.

[bornadog]

Looking at Hannan swapped for a future third-round pick. That is fair.

and


Essendon’s Anthony McDonald-Tipungwuti has not been discussed by the Western Bulldogs and won’t be moving this off-season, according to his manager Scott Lucas.

While McDonald-Tipungwuti’s name has been raised as a potential circuit-breaker in the Josh Dunkley talks, primarily by fans, the exciting forward will be staying at Tullamarine.


“I think the speculation has been driven purely by the media and callers, which is what we get this time of year,” Lucas said on Trade Radio.


“I haven’t had a conversation with the Bulldogs or with Essendon about Tippa. He’s contracted for another two years.


“It’s Tuesday, the trades finish on Thursday, so he’ll be an Essendon player next year.”

[Bulldog4life]

A bit of trivia.

The Western Bulldogs had 284 coaches votes from players in the age of 22-27 - the most of any team in 2020.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Future third for Hannan is overs IMO.

Barely played in 2020 and hasn't been 'in form' for some time. I'd have thought a 4th is adequate.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

So how is Hannan worth a future 3rd but Peter Wright only a future 4th rounder?

[bulldogsthru&thru]

So how is Hannan worth a future 3rd but Peter Wright only a future 4th rounder?

I was surprised with Wright being a 4th but apparently he is on quite a nice salary so Essendon taking that on meant the suns were happy to take less pickwise.

I agree Hannan should be a 4th rounder though.

[GVGjr]

So how is Hannan worth a future 3rd but Peter Wright only a future 4th rounder?

Perplexing isn't it? My guess is that the lesser off is due to his higher salary and GC wanting clear some space

The thing that annoys me is that there are too many variables in these trades

[comrade]

So how is Hannan worth a future 3rd but Peter Wright only a future 4th rounder?

Wright has a 500k contract, Hannan is probably on less than half that.

[soupman]

So how is Hannan worth a future 3rd but Peter Wright only a future 4th rounder?

Big salary difference I assume, plus i think Wright has missed games more because he isn't being picked while Hannan was been injured I think. Regardless we are talking about 50 vs Essendon pick 65 so who cares?

[Axe Man]

Big salary difference I assume, plus i think Wright has missed games more because he isn't being picked while Hannan was been injured I think. Regardless we are talking about 50 vs Essendon pick 65 so who cares?

When we win the 2021 flag and Essendon the spoon it will only be a 1 pick difference ;)

You would think Hannan could be done for a pick swap though - our 3rd for their 4th or something.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

We have a fair few father sons next year yeah? Maybe we don’t intend on using many live picks.

[bornadog]

Big salary difference I assume, plus i think Wright has missed games more because he isn't being picked while Hannan was been injured I think. Regardless we are talking about 50 vs Essendon pick 65 so who cares?

Wright didn't play a game this year.

[soupman]

Wright didn't play a game this year.

Yep, and with King and Sam Day both ahead of him probably is facing the same thing next year. I can understand Gold Coast wanting to get a guy on best 22 wages who is nowhere near best 22 out of the club.

[mjp]

Wright has a 500k contract, Hannan is probably on less than half that.

Are we sure GC aren't paying some of Wright's contract?

[bornadog]

Are we sure GC aren't paying some of Wright's contract?

Pretty sure they are

[comrade]

Are we sure GC aren't paying some of Wright's contract?

They may well be, but for a future fourth, I find it hard to believe it'd be much of a chunk otherwise what's the point of accepting such a low ball offer.

[1eyedog]

Are we sure GC aren't paying some of Wright's contract?

They definitely are.

[mjp]

They may well be, but for a future fourth, I find it hard to believe it'd be much of a chunk otherwise what's the point of accepting such a low ball offer.

'Cos they need him off their list and he has a contract.

[comrade]

'Cos they need him off their list and he has a contract.

Exactly, a contract Essendon are helping clear off their books.

[bornadog]

Club has asked if Treloar would like to meet with us.

[The Pie Man]

Club has asked if Treloar would like to meet with us.

Getting a ‘the Dogs? Pffft Nup’ vibe about this

Outside of Boyd, a deal no one was ever going to do based on his output at the time, I can’t remember a high profile *good* player in their prime nominating us.

[Rocket Science]

Club has asked if Treloar would like to meet with us.

Okay this is getting weird.

[bornadog]

Okay this is getting weird.

Dogs to meet with Treloar

By Michael Gleeson (The Age)


Sources say the Western Bulldogs will meet with Collingwood's midfielder Adam Treloar.


The Dogs remain of the view that they could trade for Treloar unconnected to any decision on Josh Dunkley, who has asked for a move to Essendon.


The Dogs want to meet with Treloar to get a clearer picture of whether there is merit in progressing talks about a possible trade for the star Magpie, who has been squeezed out at Collingwood.

[1eyedog]

Club has asked if Treloar would like to meet with us.

I would have thought Treloar's Manager would be the one doing the asking.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I would have thought Treloar's Manager would be the one doing the asking.

I would say this is already happening but Bevo/Power would want to meet AT himself, which is more than fair enough.

[bornadog]

I would say this is already happening but Bevo/Power would want to meet AT himself, which is more than fair enough.

Further information:

The Western Bulldogs want to meet with Adam Treloar. Right now the ball is in his court and he is weighing it up.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Surely impossible we keep Dunkley AND get Treloar.

$$ is one, sharing mid minutes is another.

The other question to ask is I wonder if we have any plans to play Bont more forward?

[bornadog]

Surely impossible we keep Dunkley AND get Treloar.

$$ is one, sharing mid minutes is another.

The other question to ask is I wonder if we have any plans to play Bont more forward?

Forgetting Dunks deal, would next years first plus picks back to make up points for JUH do it for Treloar, assuming they pay some of his salary - or is that overs. Collingwood have 34, 37 and 68, or use our 14 to do some swapping.

BT we need you here.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Forgetting Dunks deal, would next years first plus picks back to make up points for JUH do it for Treloar, assuming they pay some of his salary - or is that overs. Collingwood have 34, 37 and 68, or use our 14 to do some swapping.

BT we need you here.

It would be dependent on how much Collingwood pay but I wouldn't be coughing up a first round pick for him.

[GVGjr]

It would be dependent on how much Collingwood pay but I wouldn't be coughing up a first round pick for him.

Both of the clubs and Treloar could come out with a nice wins here
I agree that a first round pick would be overs given his salary but there could be some considerations made.

I look forward to seeing how this plays out and I hope we can still avoid dealing with Dodoro

[The Doctor]

Forgetting Dunks deal, would next years first plus picks back to make up points for JUH do it for Treloar, assuming they pay some of his salary - or is that overs. Collingwood have 34, 37 and 68, or use our 14 to do some swapping.

BT we need you here.

Collingwood need those mid range picks for Reef McInness this year

[bornadog]

Collingwood need those mid range picks for Reef McInness this year

fair enough - thanks. I am sure something can be worked

[Grantysghost]

Getting a ‘the Dogs? Pffft Nup’ vibe about this

Outside of Boyd, a deal no one was ever going to do based on his output at the time, I can’t remember a high profile *good* player in their prime nominating us.

It's bloody hard to work out considering the environment Bevo seems to have created for the players. Even Billy Gowers interviewed today spoke extremely highly of Bevo.
Maybe we aren't cool enough.... :cool:

[bulldogtragic]

Forgetting Dunks deal, would next years first plus picks back to make up points for JUH do it for Treloar, assuming they pay some of his salary - or is that overs. Collingwood have 34, 37 and 68, or use our 14 to do some swapping.

BT we need you here.

Depends on our strategy. My reading of the tea leaves is Treloar is on our radar for a future first. Then there's two strategies with our draft points; trade up to pick 2 or trade down to whatever for more points.

Trade Up: We need extra points this year and a heap of draft picks current and future to do it. A later pick from Collingwood to top up points would be very handy.
Trade Down: Pick 14 gets traded to be best offer to accumulate points. If we got back a later pick this year it's be nice, but a future later pick could work too, having given one up for Hannan.

Alternatively, if rumour and innuendo happen be right, if they are *actually* after Schache/Dale and we wanted to trade then perhaps Pick 34 or 37 could get mixed in to bring in a decent amount of draft points.

So assuming we want him and he wants us:

Treloar & Pick 37, Future 3rd to Dogs (depending on the salary covered) - for - Schache/Dale, Future 1st & 4th

Leaves:

Dunkley picks on the table, 14, 37, 41, 54 (Hannan in and Martin free)

Trade Up: Dunkley picks & 14, 54 & Future 2nd - for - 2 & 28 ---- Then 28, 37 & 41 plus draft point trades covers JUH when these picks are points traded.
Trade Down: That's more than enough points for JUH.

That's a rough idea of Treloar as a 2021 First Rounder in either strategy.

[bornadog]

The Brisbane Lions trade Round 4 (70) to North Melbourne for its Rd 4 (63).


The Brisbane Lions have traded Stefan Martin to the Western Bulldogs.


The Western Bulldogs have traded Lachie Young to North Melbourne.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Further information:

The Western Bulldogs want to meet with Adam Treloar. Right now the ball is in his court and he is weighing it up.

Adam is weighing up whether he wants to meet with us? Yikes.

[bulldogtragic]

The Brisbane Lions trade Round 4 (70) to North Melbourne for its Rd 4 (63).


The Brisbane Lions have traded Stefan Martin to the Western Bulldogs.


The Western Bulldogs have traded Lachie Young to North Melbourne.

In: Martin, Hannan,
Out: Dickson, Young, Greene, Gowers, Lynch

Net: 3 Spots Open

[bornadog]

In: Martin, Hannan,
Out: Dickson, Young, Greene, Gowers, Lynch

Net: 3 Spots Open

With List reductions this will grow.

[bulldogtragic]

With List reductions this will grow.

Obviously. Dunkley could make it 4, Treloar could make it 3, so we are back to 3 net. For draft point purposes I think we probably need a net 5 spots for draft night and a say a couple for lists shortening. That's 10 needing to go, so the six that will go. So four more delistings.

JT seems redundant with Martin. Then there's 3 more potentially.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Treloar apparently having a medical with us according to the age

[bornadog]

Treloar apparently having a medical with us according to the age

That has really progressed.


Treloar to do medical with BulldogsBy Michael GleesonAdam Treloar will do a medical when he meets with the Western Bulldogs today.
Sources said the Bulldogs were keen to assess his hamstrings, given Treloar's injury history.
The club want to be prepared and informed should a trade develop.
As reported earlier today by Michael Gleeson, the Dogs remain of the view that they could trade for Treloar unconnected to any decision on Josh Dunkley, who has asked for a move to Essendon.


The Dogs were keen to meet with Treloar to get a clearer picture of whether there is merit in progressing talks about a possible trade for the star Magpie, who has been squeezed out at Collingwood.

[bulldogtragic]

The Brisbane Lions trade Round 4 (70) to North Melbourne for its Rd 4 (63).


The Brisbane Lions have traded Stefan Martin to the Western Bulldogs.


The Western Bulldogs have traded Lachie Young to North Melbourne.

So North get Lachie Young for a 7 pick downgrade in the 4th round. Essentially free.

I hope this is a down payment of good will if we try to tempt North for Pick 2.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

So North get Lachie Young for a 7 pick downgrade in the 4th round. Essentially free.

I hope this is a down payment of good will if we try to tempt North for Pick 2.

You’d hope so. They would want plenty of picks after all their list cuts. But I won’t hold my breath. We have a tendency of giving players away virtually free.

[Grantysghost]

Sounds like Treloar may happen then. Maybe a deal has been done between the clubs and it was about convincing him. If he's agreed then last step is possibly the medical. I'm happy with this I think. Will see what we cough up I assume next years first and back ourselves in next year.

[The Underdog]

Surely impossible we keep Dunkley AND get Treloar.

$$ is one, sharing mid minutes is another.

The other question to ask is I wonder if we have any plans to play Bont more forward?

It’d be worth it, just to tell Dunks he’s going to be a permanent forward...

I actually thought the other day that one way to keep Dunkley happy would be to put Bont forward more, but adding Treloar to the mix completely blows things up.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I think the medical is just so if a deal can eventuate we’re fully aware with what we’re getting. Oh and that he also is willing to play for us.

[G-Mo77]

So North get Lachie Young for a 7 pick downgrade in the 4th round. Essentially free.

I hope this is a down payment of good will if we try to tempt North for Pick 2.

Wasn't he just going to sign with them for free? We did well to turn this around and use a player we weren't going to keep into someone we will use regularly. Fingers crossed on regularly

[jazzadogs]

You’d hope so. They would want plenty of picks after all their list cuts. But I won’t hold my breath. We have a tendency of giving players away virtually free.

Both Young and Martin could have been picked up as free agents.

Our choice with Young was either offer him a spot on the main list, or let him go. I assume our preferred option was to give him another rookie contract, but with north offering a main list contract that allowed them to get him for free.

I don't think we've done anything wrong here. Good luck Lachie - don't get too good!

[1eyedog]

It’d be worth it, just to tell Dunks he’s going to be a permanent forward...

I actually thought the other day that one way to keep Dunkley happy would be to put Bont forward more, but adding Treloar to the mix completely blows things up.

Martin ruck, English forward, Dunkley forward / second ruck for the next two years.

[1eyedog]

I think the medical is just so if a deal can eventuate we’re fully aware with what we’re getting. Oh and that he also is willing to play for us.

Yeah I view it as a building inspection when buying a house. You don't not bid on a multi-million dollar asset without doing an inspection.

[1eyedog]

Would you think if Treloar has agreed to a medical he has agreed in principle to come over?

[bornadog]

Would you think if Treloar has agreed to a medical he has agreed in principle to come over?

From The Age:


Collingwood midfielder Adam Treloar has done a medical at the Western Bulldogs while teammate Jaidyn Stephenson has met with North Melbourne as he considers his future.

Treloar met with the Bulldogs at a discreet location away from Whitten Oval on Tuesday and had a medical after meeting with coaches and key staff.

Sounds like it 1eyedog - now to do the deal

[Grantysghost]

Would you think if Treloar has agreed to a medical he has agreed in principle to come over?

I'd say so. Usually it's the last step isn't it?

[mjp]

I actually thought the other day that one way to keep Dunkley happy would be to put Bont forward more, but adding Treloar to the mix completely blows things up.

The ones who are unhappy are the unhappy ones.

Trying to manipulate a situation to 'make' players happy simply doesn't work. Think about it with regards your work - when someone is considering leaving and is 'given more responsibility' to help convince them to stay, the whole cycle repeats in 6-months time.

This isn't me saying Dunks can't be turned around - just that he needs to DECIDE to be happy with what he has and what he is doing...the coaches can't do it for him.

[Ghost Dog]

Get on with it, be professional Dunks. Keep on ruckin' bro haha. Hope he stays it will be funny.
Denying Essendon any joy will be the best result.

[bornadog]

Treloar does medical at Dogs (https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/treloar-does-medical-at-dogs-stephenson-talks-with-north-20201110-p56dcl.html)


Collingwood midfielder Adam Treloar has done a medical at the Western Bulldogs while teammate Jaidyn Stephenson has met with North Melbourne as he considers his future.

Treloar met with the Bulldogs at a discreet location away from Whitten Oval on Tuesday and had a medical after meeting with coaches and key staff.

The Dogs wanted to assess the player's hamstrings in particular after he tore the hamstrings of both legs last year in an unusual incident and then tore a hamstring this year.

The results of the medical will be known on Wednesday and will determine whether the Dogs pursue talks with Collingwood for the player who is contracted for five more years with the Magpies on about $900,000 a year.

The Dogs also wanted to understand Treloar’s personal situation with his partner Kim Ravaillion moving with their young baby to Queensland next year for her to play netball on the Gold Coast.

Treloar has reportedly indicated he now considers it unlikely that he could return to Collingwood but he wants to play for a Victorian club and preferably one in finals or flag contention.

The Dogs say any move for Treloar is independent of a decision on Josh Dunkley after their midfielder asked to be traded to Essendon.

It is not inconceivable, but it is unlikely, the Bulldogs would trade for Treloar and still hold onto Dunkley.

Sources suggest they have sufficient salary cap space for the two players but the very fact of bringing in Treloar would mean there would be even more pressure for time playing on the ball next year and Dunkley had said time spent playing on the ball was a prime reason for his interest in a move to Essendon.

The Bulldogs are increasingly frustrated that the Bombers have offered a contract to their contracted player to encourage him to leave the club but to date have offered only a pick that they do not yet have – pick eight that Essendon will almost certainly get from Carlton as part of any exchange still being negotiated for Adam Saad.

Essendon has not offered either of the picks - six or seven – that they already have in the draft for Dunkley.

[Ghost Dog]

Fair point by commentators. Regards Dunks, they are potentially taking a high-quality contracted player away from us. His low-quality blogging is not in question here. But. Two first round picks please.

Adam's missus and baby moving to the Gold coast is a bit different. See how it works out. Why is this player leaving Collingwood may I ask? Hamstrings or can't get along with Bucks?

[bornadog]

The Bulldogs are increasingly frustrated that the Bombers have offered a contract to their contracted player to encourage him to leave the club but to date have offered only a pick that they do not yet have – pick eight that Essendon will almost certainly get from Carlton as part of any exchange still being negotiated for Adam Saad.

Essendon has not offered either of the picks - six or seven – that they already have in the draft for Dunkley.

Typical Dodo tactics. I would just say too bad, or as BT said give them a deadline if we are trading him

[Ghost Dog]

At the end of the day he is signed with us. He can't walk unless we say so. correct?

[Doc26]

Would you think if Treloar has agreed to a medical he has agreed in principle to come over?

It’s leaning that way. Hopefully Dodoro views the move as them
having a chance, and when push comes to shove they will give up 2 low to mid range firsts.

This to me should still be our ‘minimum’ position to release Dunkley from his contract, regardless of AT’s commitment. Dunkley remains ours unless 2 firsts (or equivalent) come back.

[FrediKanoute]

The ones who are unhappy are the unhappy ones.

Trying to manipulate a situation to 'make' players happy simply doesn't work. Think about it with regards your work - when someone is considering leaving and is 'given more responsibility' to help convince them to stay, the whole cycle repeats in 6-months time.

This isn't me saying Dunks can't be turned around - just that he needs to DECIDE to be happy with what he has and what he is doing...the coaches can't do it for him.

Spot on MJP. People leave for all sorts of reasons- money, opportunity, job security. These things for footballers are compressed into a very small space of time, with a limited window and are made public. I don't know Dunks, but to me he wants to be the top dog so to speak - can he Bulldogs give this to him? I just don't think that the the way our club's DNA works. We have always been about the team. Its why we have so many 250/300 game players. Maybe Essendon will suit Dunk's DNA.

[bulldogtragic]

Typical Dodo tactics. I would just say too bad, or as BT said give them a deadline if we are trading him

Yep. After blowing three first rounders last year denying Daniher & Fantasia, if Dodoro leaves Dunkley nominating them and not getting there... I just don't see him keeping his job. You can be dick when you are winning. He's not winning recently.

We need to work out what picks we have, and then whether to 'trade up' or 'trade down' to improve our club. Sure we can feel out clubs, so I wouldn't give them passed midday tomorrow. Schedule Sam Power on Trade Radio at 12.30 to tell the world Dunkley is staying. Dunkley and his manager can freak out to Dodoro all tomorrow morning. Dodoro has no hand to play other than to get Dunkley in at a fair market price. That's a lot more than pick 8. Adrian, you can keep your job, land Dunkley and 'win' trade week again or you'll get nothing and like it.

[azabob]

Forget about what we trade for Trelor my concern is his 5 year deal at $900K a year.

That seriously blows up our cap especially for not our most pressing need.

This has trouble in year 4 & 5 written all over it.

[azabob]

I’m only dreaming but I’d be ok brining Trelor in if we can trade Bruce out to the pies.

[ledge]

Forget about what we trade for Trelor my concern is his 5 year deal at $900K a year.

That seriously blows up our cap especially for not our most pressing need.

This has trouble in year 4 & 5 written all over it.

The deal will only happen if Collingwood come to the party on the amount of his salary they will pay.

[1eyedog]

Forget about what we trade for Trelor my concern is his 5 year deal at $900K a year.

That seriously blows up our cap especially for not our most pressing need.

This has trouble in year 4 & 5 written all over it.

What if we win a flag inside 4 years? How many chances do we get at securing a top line player now in his absolute prime?

I personally cannot remember any chances. We always draft. Time to make an audacious play while we can. We are in a window now and he will help big time across the next 3 years.

[azabob]

The deal will only happen if Collingwood come to the party on the amount of his salary they will pay.

I can’t see Collingwood paying $150K each of the five years.

Still $750K each year is a lot of salary.

[azabob]

What if we win a flag inside 4 years?

Do you truly believe he will be the difference? I’m not so sure by bringing in Trelor we make the 8 or win a final.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

What if we win a flag inside 4 years? How many chances do we get at securing a top line player now in his absolute prime?

I personally cannot remember any chances.

This.

We always complain that we can't attract elite talent. Well, now is the perfect chance to get one and.... we don't want to?



* Medical / sorting out his contract permitting.

[1eyedog]

Do you truly believe he will be the difference? I’m not so sure by bringing in Trelor we make the 8 or win a final.

Not really. But you're under selling him. He's a 100% blue chip mid.

[1eyedog]

This.

We always complain that we can't attract elite talent. Well, now is the perfect chance to get one and.... we don't want to?



* Medical / sorting out his contract permitting.

Yeah he's too good to bypass if passed fit and keen to make the transition.

[azabob]

Not really. But you're under selling him. He's a 100% blue chip mid.

I’m not questioning his ability. I’m questioning his salary over five years.

[1eyedog]

I’m not questioning his ability. I’m questioning his salary over five years.

You pay for what you get mate. And you said he doesn't make us better. Five years is shit but it comes back to my initial question. Want a better chance at a flag now?

[Danjul]

Forget about what we trade for Trelor my concern is his 5 year deal at $900K a year.

That seriously blows up our cap especially for not our most pressing need.

This has trouble in year 4 & 5 written all over it.
His recent history is not promising a good future.

He had 2 long absences this season, and when he did play his figures were down.

Too much risk, money better spent if it’s directed towards a long term need.

[1eyedog]

I’m not questioning his ability. I’m questioning his salary over five years.


His recent history is not promising a good future.

He had 2 long absences this season, and when he did play his figures were down.

Too much risk, money better spent if it’s directed towards a long term need.

A 32 year old key defender?

[Happy Days]

I really think Treloar will be a gamebreaker on the wing. I kinda want us to get him just to see what it would look like.

[comrade]

His recent history is not promising a good future.

He had 2 long absences this season, and when he did play his figures were down.

Too much risk, money better spent if it’s directed towards a long term need.

Treloar is like a 4 year old Mercedes that has driven very well for the last 3.5 years but has recently shown signs of potential engine failure.

Buying it at top dollar would be a very risky decision.

[Danjul]

A 32 year old key defender?
I don’t understand the comment. Who’s 32?

Treloar missed a consecutive 9 weeks in 2018 and was ordinary when he came back.

Excellent 2019

Then 2 long absences in 2020.

He has missed the equivalent of a whole season in the last 3 years.

Don’t these injuries get more likely as the midfielder gets older?

[GVGjr]

This.

We always complain that we can't attract elite talent. Well, now is the perfect chance to get one and.... we don't want to?



* Medical / sorting out his contract permitting.

We are interested but I wonder if it's really more about adding him or replacing Dunkley

Ideally we bring him in as well as retaining Dunkley. It will be intriguing to see if we have the capacity to do it

[bulldogtragic]

Treloar is like a 4 year old Mercedes that has driven very well for the last 3.5 years but has recently shown signs of potential engine failure.

Buying it at top dollar would be a very risky decision.

Sir, I understand that. I do. On the other hand though, it's only had two owners, the last was an old loud mouth gentleman, and it's done mainly Toorak KMs and touring. Plus my manager says if I sell it today, I can throw in a free cut and polish, 50% of next service voucher and new floor mats. So what do you say, let's do some paperwork!

[The Bulldogs Bite]

We are interested but I wonder if it's really more about adding him or replacing Dunkley

Ideally we bring him in as well as retaining Dunkley. It will be intriguing to see if we have the capacity to do it

Do we have the cap space to realistically do that and the ability to share mid minutes?

If it's yes to the first, the second part can surely only be answered by playing Bont forward. I actually wonder how bad Bont's hip(s) are and if playing forward would help, but that's another question for another thread.

[GVGjr]

Do we have the cap space to realistically do that and the ability to share mid minutes?

If it's yes to the first, the second part can surely only be answered by playing Bont forward. I actually wonder how bad Bont's hip(s) are and if playing forward would help, but that's another question for another thread.

Regarding the minutes, with McLean a likely out for the year and with a bit of a reshuffle we can probably share the load.
Regarding the cap, we appear to be giving signals that it's possible. That might depend on either how much Collinwood can contribute and if Treloar considers a restructure of him contract. Apparently 2021 is the lowest of the remaining years

[The Adelaide Connection]

Sir, I understand that. I do. On the other hand though, it's only had two owners, the last was an old loud mouth gentleman, and it's done mainly Toorak KMs and touring. Plus my manager says if I sell it today, I can throw in a free cut and polish, 50% of next service voucher and new floor mats. So what do you say, let's do some paperwork!

But should we be shopping for a luxury sedan? I thought we were desperately in need of a ute, a solid 4x4 defensive SUV, and a zippy little hatch.

I suppose we could load up the luxury sedan with all of the crap we really want the ute to be carrying around (ala Dunkley), or throw one of our sedans forward to be a slightly slower version of what we actually need, but wouldn't it just make sense to get a ute or a hatch?

[bulldogtragic]

But should we be shopping for a luxury sedan? I thought we were desperately in need of a ute, a solid 4x4 defensive SUV, and a zippy little hatch.

I suppose we could load up the luxury sedan with all of the crap we really want the ute to be carrying around (ala Dunkley), or throw one of our sedans forward to be a slightly slower version of what we actually need, but wouldn't it just make sense to get a ute or a hatch?

Look, dual axel failure is rare. I’ll go talk to my manager and see what we can do. He almost always says no, but I will tell him you’re a ripping guy and see if he can do me a favour. If I can get some more from him, can I tell him you will sign today?

[1eyedog]

Look, dual axel failure is rare. I’ll go talk to my manager and see what we can do. He almost always says no, but I will tell him you’re a ripping guy and see if he can do me a favour. If I can get some more from him, can I tell him you will sign today?

Sure. Pay 250k and a second rounder and show me where to scribble the John Doe.

[azabob]

You pay for what you get mate. And you said he doesn't make us better. Five years is shit but it comes back to my initial question. Want a better chance at a flag now?

Yes, I want a better chance at a flag now and yes Treloar does that.

[Vred]

I still reckon we also chase J Stephenson, not sure why we aren't into him more than we are Treloar.

[jazzadogs]

Yes, I want a better chance at a flag now and yes Treloar does that.

What about if the size of Treloar's contract means we can't offer Bailey Smith what he deserves in a couple of years, and he leaves?

It's all well and good to say 'only the next two years matters if we win a flag' but it's five years of significant salary cap space that we need to consider. If he didn't have his contract in place, I don't think you would offer him more than three years.

[comrade]

Treloar isn't going to be the difference in winning a flag in the next 2 years anyway.

[GVGjr]

What about if the size of Treloar's contract means we can't offer Bailey Smith what he deserves in a couple of years, and he leaves?

It's all well and good to say 'only the next two years matters if we win a flag' but it's five years of significant salary cap space that we need to consider. If he didn't have his contract in place, I don't think you would offer him more than three years.

There is no question it's a fine line that every club tries to balance and that is why it's so important that clubs be honest with their assessment of where their best opportunities are. It's no good chasing some high priced players if your window is 2 or 3 years away

Hard to know where we are placed because our form line hasn't been convincing but I suspect it could be worth rolling the dice and taking a chance. If we become competitive in finals then the likes of Bailey Smith, Naughton and many other youngsters will all want to stay. If we stay competitive but not really threatening to win the flag players will start looking at other options

Lets not focus on the downsides of this because there is an upside if we were to land him.

[azabob]

Forget about what we trade for Trelor my concern is his 5 year deal at $900K a year.

That seriously blows up our cap especially for not our most pressing need.

This has trouble in year 4 & 5 written all over it.


What about if the size of Treloar's contract means we can't offer Bailey Smith what he deserves in a couple of years, and he leaves?

It's all well and good to say 'only the next two years matters if we win a flag' but it's five years of significant salary cap space that we need to consider. If he didn't have his contract in place, I don't think you would offer him more than three years.

JD you have definitely taken me out of context. See above my very first post from last night.

The post you have quoted is in response to 1eyedog about team success.

[dog town]

If you get Treloar from 2017-2019 he is exactly what our midfield needs but I don’t really want to lose the grunt Dunkley provides in getting him.

Treloar exits stoppages quickly and peels off the shoulder of his opponent to space really well.

In open play he finds space on the slow play or can get forward of the ball for a releasing handball or 1-2 when it’s a fast transition which really suits what we need. Gives us a completely different look and profile around the ball.

His kicking is more careless than anything it’s not a major technical flaw, guys that play a frenetic style like him rarely have great touch and finesse.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

What about if the size of Treloar's contract means we can't offer Bailey Smith what he deserves in a couple of years, and he leaves?

It's all well and good to say 'only the next two years matters if we win a flag' but it's five years of significant salary cap space that we need to consider. If he didn't have his contract in place, I don't think you would offer him more than three years.

Lot of ifs there though. What if Smith and Naughton decided we weren't close enough to contending in 2 years and wanted to go elsewhere? What if English wanted to go home in 2 years? What if Hunter was enticed to chase another flag at Richmond?

Whilst all clubs need to keep an eye on the future, you can only really deal with what's in front of you for the now.

As much as some of us have had a laugh at Collingwood's expense, and their salary cap situation is a little extreme (clearly overpaying NUMEROUS players, even undeserving ones like Stephenson / Cox / Phillips - then there's Beams), they tried to wind up and have a big crack at a flag. They were a couple of points away from it largely being a success. At least they were bold (and a little stupid, clearly).

With some fine tuning, I have no issues with Collingwood's approach and hope we apply a similar aggressive touch.

[Mofra]

Lot of ifs there though. What if Smith and Naughton decided we weren't close enough to contending in 2 years and wanted to go elsewhere?
What if Smith gets pissed off that he is now shunted to the HFF to accommodate Treloar's midfield time?

To me if we're considering likely scenarios, Treloar is waving multiple red flags for mine based mostly on his contract but a little on his role. We're potentially losing a gun mid now due to lack of midfield minutes, replacing him with a mid who is even less versatile on a $900k x 5 year deal just doesn't seem sensible.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

What if Smith gets pissed off that he is now shunted to the HFF to accommodate Treloar's midfield time?

That's kind of my point though. We can draw a million what ifs without any substance.

What if we win the flag and Treloar kicks 10 and wins the Norm? ;)


To me if we're considering likely scenarios, Treloar is waving multiple red flags for mine based mostly on his contract but a little on his role. We're potentially losing a gun mid now due to lack of midfield minutes, replacing him with a mid who is even less versatile on a $900k x 5 year deal just doesn't seem sensible.

Just because Dunkley cracked the sads about mid minutes, it doesn't mean every other player will. We're also not privy to what our plans are for 2021 and I doubt we are into Treloar on the premise that we play Smith purely as a HFFer.

I've been on seat 1A for Treloar but I agree 5 years @ 900K is stupid, so any deal would (surely) need to be predicated on that figure coming down / Collingwood contributing.

[Mofra]

I've been on seat 1A for Treloar but I agree 5 years @ 900K is stupid, so any deal would (surely) need to be predicated on that figure coming down / Collingwood contributing.
Collingwood are reported to be kicking in $100k, perhaps $150k.

Treloar is a burst mid who missed games due to his hammys this year. He'll be 28 at the start of next year and potentially our second highest paid player, at least in the top handful. A 31, 32 year old burst mid with hamstring issues doesn't scream $900k pa to me.

I just think if we are going to trade in a $900k x 5 player we'd want an A grader in a position of need. I don't see midfield as a position of need. There will be likely be very good FAs available for less than that next year.

[bornadog]

That's kind of my point though. We can draw a million what ifs without any substance.

What if we win the flag and Treloar kicks 10 and wins the Norm? ;)



Just because Dunkley cracked the sads about mid minutes, it doesn't mean every other player will. We're also not privy to what our plans are for 2021 and I doubt we are into Treloar on the premise that we play Smith purely as a HFFer.

I've been on seat 1A for Treloar but I agree 5 years @ 900K is stupid, so any deal would (surely) need to be predicated on that figure coming down / Collingwood contributing.

Totally agree with you. I still don't buy the sooking about midfield minutes. It is a team game, and the coach works out the best positions he wants you to play. Of course the coach should play you to your strengths, but there are times you sacrifice for the good of the team.

If we end up keeping Dunks and get Treloar, I don't think there will be an issue with time in the middle, or around the ground.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Collingwood are reported to be kicking in $100k, perhaps $150k.

Treloar is a burst mid who missed games due to his hammys this year. He'll be 28 at the start of next year and potentially our second highest paid player, at least in the top handful. A 31, 32 year old burst mid with hamstring issues doesn't scream $900k pa to me.

I just think if we are going to trade in a $900k x 5 player we'd want an A grader in a position of need. I don't see midfield as a position of need. There will be likely be very good FAs available for less than that next year.

How bad do Collingwood need to free up cap space? Nobody truly knows. 100k is likely their starting point but I don't think 200K is without question, dependent on their situation. It's worth asking the question.

The hamstring issues are why we'd be doing a thorough medical. Results of that would/will be interesting.

History suggests we just don't attract elite free agents and I don't rate our midfield that highly. I think the club is handling things well by looking into all the options.

[The Pie Man]

RE: discussion above - I’m in the bringing quality in makes us better and more appealing for players to stay and win things camp.

I’m all in on Treloar if the medical’s good

[Happy Days]

What if Smith gets pissed off that he is now shunted to the HFF to accommodate Treloar's midfield time?

To me if we're considering likely scenarios, Treloar is waving multiple red flags for mine based mostly on his contract but a little on his role. We're potentially losing a gun mid now due to lack of midfield minutes, replacing him with a mid who is even less versatile on a $900k x 5 year deal just doesn't seem sensible.

This scenario is exactly why we need to be clear to Treloar that he is being recruited to play on a wing, and why we need to accept nothing less than him on $600k a year for the life of the deal.

Otherwise, this is a needless risk with potential ramifications not unlike Collingwood are now experiencing thanks to recruiting Beams (in form not substance).

[Bulldog4life]

This.

We always complain that we can't attract elite talent. Well, now is the perfect chance to get one and.... we don't want to?



* Medical / sorting out his contract permitting.

That is the key plus his mental outlook which unfortunately he has struggled with. We have been down that path before. Otherwise if those 3 things can be sorted it is a yes from me ....although I do see a red flag or 2.

[SquirrelGrip]

Totally agree with you. I still don't buy the sooking about midfield minutes. It is a team game, and the coach works out the best positions he wants you to play. Of course the coach should play you to your strengths, buty there are times you sacrifice for the good of the team.

If we end up keeping Dunks and get Treloar, I don't think there will be an issue with time in the middle, or around the ground.

I 1000% agree with this. If we have both Dunkley and Treloar, our team is better for it and we can manage midfield minutes and be more successful.

How we manage salary cap, I'll leave to smarter minds than mind to figure out.

[Avoid the rush]

Has anyone heard anything about Joel Hamling and a return to the DOGS. Would be an ideal pick up and make our defence a lot more attacking by releasing Wood and/or Keith to intercept.

[Mofra]

How bad do Collingwood need to free up cap space? Nobody truly knows. 100k is likely their starting point but I don't think 200K is without question, dependent on their situation. It's worth asking the question.

The hamstring issues are why we'd be doing a thorough medical. Results of that would/will be interesting.

History suggests we just don't attract elite free agents and I don't rate our midfield that highly. I think the club is handling things well by looking into all the options.
It may be moot - Stephenson meeting with North. $600k pa off their books might just be enough. In that case Treloar can probably fit under their cap. Phillips may still move as well.

[Vred]

It may be moot - Stephenson meeting with North. $600k pa off their books might just be enough. In that case Treloar can probably fit under their cap. Phillips may still move as well.

I'd take Phillips over Treloar, specially if Dunkley stays on, no idea why we aren't chasing that up.

[Mofra]

I'd take Phillips over Treloar, specially if Dunkley stays on, no idea why we aren't chasing that up.
$600k is one reason - he hit a bunch of performance clauses in 2019 apparently.

[Mofra]

This scenario is exactly why we need to be clear to Treloar that he is being recruited to play on a wing, and why we need to accept nothing less than him on $600k a year for the life of the deal.

Otherwise, this is a needless risk with potential ramifications not unlike Collingwood are now experiencing thanks to recruiting Beams (in form not substance).
$900k for a wing spot for a bloke who doesn't really want to play for us, shoving him to a spot he's hardly played? I'd be dead against it.

[Vred]

$600k is one reason - he hit a bunch of performance clauses in 2019 apparently.


If Collingwood offered to pick up 100k of that a year, I'd say that's almost fair.

[Happy Days]

$900k for a wing spot for a bloke who doesn't really want to play for us, shoving him to a spot he's hardly played? I'd be dead against it.

"and why we need to accept nothing less than him on $600k a year for the life of the deal."

Realistically we shouldn't get him but I'm pretty curious to see it on field.

[dog town]

$900k for a wing spot for a bloke who doesn't really want to play for us, shoving him to a spot he's hardly played? I'd be dead against it. I would be surprised if he played wing with us very often.

[Mofra]

I would be surprised if he played wing with us very often.
Me as well, but the post I replied to had him on a wing.

[bornadog]

Bulldogs still waiting on Treloar's medical results

By Sam McClure and Michael Gleeson

Sources say the Bulldogs and Collingwood are in negotiations for a trade for Adam Treloar that is not contingent on the Bulldogs making a trade for Josh Dunkley, who wants a move from the Bulldogs to Essendon.

The Western Bulldogs were still awaiting the full results of Treloar's medical on Wednesday evening.
The medical was performed on Tuesday afternoon.

The Bulldogs have specialists looking over Treloar's historical scans, particularly in the last two years when the dynamic midfielder has suffered from hamstring and calf issues.

[Bulldog Revolution]

He wont cost much to acquire (presumably some future pick value so they can stockpile for Daicos), but he will cost a lot of salary

I'm not convinced he's going to be worth that salary or that we should be making a last minute decision on his health

[jeemak]

He wont cost much to acquire, but he will cost a lot of salary

I'm not convinced he's going to be worth that salary or that we should be making a last minute decision on his health

Reckon a couple of days with all history on the table and direct interviews with the player and other staff etc. would be sufficient, surely?

[GVGjr]

He wont cost much to acquire, but he will cost a lot of salary

I'm not convinced he's going to be worth that salary or that we should be making a last minute decision on his health

There is now some speculation that the Pies might contribute as much as 250K per season
If true that probably puts him into a fairer value situation for us

[Bulldog Revolution]

Reckon a couple of days with all history on the table and direct interviews with the player and other staff etc. would be sufficient, surely?

Has me a little worried, but Im over the whole event now

Its a pure salary dump isnt it - future fourth rounder?

[Bulldog Revolution]

There is now some speculation that the Pies might contribute as much as 250K per season
If true that probably puts him into a fairer value situation for us

Theres been times where I've really liked Treloar as a player - but I had hoped he could play on a wing for us

[jeemak]

There is now some speculation that the Pies might contribute as much as 250K per season
If true that probably puts him into a fairer value situation for us

Yeah, if we're paying him $650K per season and his medical assessment checks out then I think it's a risk very much worth taking.

[jazzadogs]

650k is a far more palatable salary and would make me a lot more comfortable with a trade.

If it is being completed separate to any Dunkley trade, then I would assume it is involving 2021 picks (as we can't afford to lose any 2020 points) and maybe Dale/Schache? What are some options?

Dale/Schache and future 2nd for Treloar and future 3rd?

Dale/Schache and future 1st for Treloar and their future 2nd?

Potentially some pick swapping for this year...our 54 for their 39 or 42?

[jazzadogs]

Lot of ifs there though. What if Smith and Naughton decided we weren't close enough to contending in 2 years and wanted to go elsewhere? What if English wanted to go home in 2 years? What if Hunter was enticed to chase another flag at Richmond?

Whilst all clubs need to keep an eye on the future, you can only really deal with what's in front of you for the now.

As much as some of us have had a laugh at Collingwood's expense, and their salary cap situation is a little extreme (clearly overpaying NUMEROUS players, even undeserving ones like Stephenson / Cox / Phillips - then there's Beams), they tried to wind up and have a big crack at a flag. They were a couple of points away from it largely being a success. At least they were bold (and a little stupid, clearly).

With some fine tuning, I have no issues with Collingwood's approach and hope we apply a similar aggressive touch.

There are definitely a lot of ifs, I guess that's half the point of the discussion. I would be worried if our list management team weren't considering scenarios like that, planning at least 3-5 years ahead, and minimising the risk of us losing a Bazlenka/Naughton/English.

I think Treloar on 800-900k increases that risk too much, assuming Bont, Macrae, Daniel, Hunter, ?JJ? are already being paid well and Baz/Naughton/English/Dunkley etc want their pay days in the future. But I am very much an amateur in this discussion, with no background in finance/team management.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

There are definitely a lot of ifs, I guess that's half the point of the discussion. I would be worried if our list management team weren't considering scenarios like that, planning at least 3-5 years ahead, and minimising the risk of us losing a Bazlenka/Naughton/English.

I think Treloar on 800-900k increases that risk too much, assuming Bont, Macrae, Daniel, Hunter, ?JJ? are already being paid well and Baz/Naughton/English/Dunkley etc want their pay days in the future. But I am very much an amateur in this discussion, with no background in finance/team management.

Agreed, I have faith in SP to make the right call one way or another with Dunkley and Treloar.

If anything, Collingwood's situation has better prepared the rest of us to avoid similar circumstances.

[Twodogs]

Has anyone heard anything about Joel Hamling and a return to the DOGS. Would be an ideal pick up and make our defence a lot more attacking by releasing Wood and/or Keith to intercept.

There was talk (fanciful talk I thought) at the beginning of the trade period. I don't think it will happen.

[Mofra]

There is now some speculation that the Pies might contribute as much as 250K per season
If true that probably puts him into a fairer value situation for us
For one year or five? I'm more worried about the last couple of years of his contract than the first couple.

[wimberga]

Mitch Cleary saying this morning that Treloar is making his mind up on whether he wants to move.

We have met with the pies and if Treloar does move to us, the expectation is for it to be a second rounder next year.

[GVGjr]

For one year or five? I'm more worried about the last couple of years of his contract than the first couple.

The way heard it was for 3 of the 5 years so your concerns would still be valid. I guess it doesn't rule out the potential to renegotiate with Treloar

[comrade]

Mitch Cleary saying this morning that Treloar is making his mind up on whether he wants to move.

We have met with the pies and if Treloar does move to us, the expectation is for it to be a second rounder next year.

Future 2nd seems decent value but Collingwood would need to cough up a decent chunk of his wage. His value has been trashed by the Pies.

Can't see how we fit Dunkley and Treloar in the same midfield and both on decent dollars, so suggests we're planning on doing a deal with Essendon.

[jazzadogs]

If it's a straight swap of Treloar for future 2nd, there is no denying that is an excellent value trade.

[Mofra]

Future 2nd seems decent value but Collingwood would need to cough up a decent chunk of his wage. His value has been trashed by the Pies.

Can't see how we fit Dunkley and Treloar in the same midfield and both on decent dollars, so suggests we're planning on doing a deal with Essendon.
Sam Edmund reporting we're only offering $600k for Treloar. I hope that for all five years, and we make Collingwood pay up big.

[bulldogtragic]

Sam Edmund reporting we're only offering $600k for Treloar. I hope that for all five years, and we make Collingwood pay up big.

Depending on the medical and trade, that’s worth backing.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Treloar @ 600K for a future 2nd?

I'll buy Sam Power dinner and a movie if that happens.

[comrade]

Treloar @ 600K for a future 2nd?

I'll buy Sam Power dinner and a movie if that happens.

Yep, that's a good deal.

[Mofra]

Treloar @ 600K for a future 2nd?

I'll buy Sam Power dinner and a movie if that happens.
The way he's going he'd get an uber fare out of you too

[The Bulldogs Bite]

The way he's going he'd get an uber fare out of you too

It's the least I could do ;)

[Happy Days]

Well I'll be damned if that isn't exactly what I asked for. Only way it's more perfect is if they take Bailey Dale instead.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

It's the least I could do ;)

Sam seems the perfect gentlemen. Kiss on the cheek at your door and he’d be on his way.

[bornadog]

Sam seems the perfect gentlemen. Kiss on the cheek at your door and he’d be on his way.

Depends where TBB takes him to dinner. :D

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Depends where TBB takes him to dinner. :D

Open to any and all suggestions, let's celebrate the man.**

** Sam, please don't burn me by 7:30pm tonight with these comments.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Depends where TBB takes him to dinner. :D

And also if Sam likes coffee. Sam wouldn't go up for coffee as it'd keep him up all night.


https://i.postimg.cc/g2wh0Cmy/image.png (https://postimages.org/)

[Vred]

Treloar for 600k a year + a future second is beyond a steal, that'll outshine any deal this year. Sam Power will have earned his $$$ if we pull that one off.

7+8 for Dunkley or hit rocks, it's that simple. Do not blink Power, do, not, blink.

[1eyedog]

The way he's going he'd get an uber fare out of you too

And a kiss goodnight. It's a great deal. Man the Pies are squeezed.

[Mofra]

Interesting take from a Pies fan. Make of this what you will:


Salary Cap - We need to move someone to be under next year, this has been an on going issue for the past 4-5 years. It has been caused by incentives in contracts not the base contracts. We got ourselves into a pattern of rolling over player insentive payouts owed that year to the following year. It has now got to the point the roll over effect has built up so much over the past 4 years this year we have to move someone. This started prior to Ned Guy, I know Ned Guy is a whipping boy around here, he actually has a plan to get us in a suitable position to be able to attract free agents. He has over paid some players for sure, but this started prior to him and to avoid this situation in the future his policy is higher base less to no performance based incentive to avoid this in the future.

Tom Lynch - He agreed to sign with Collingwood, we had to pull out of the deal when the contract we agreed with him was no longer feesable due to these performance based incentives. Richmond only became a serious option for Tom when we pulled out. The Buckley chat mid season was the scape goat, he was more pissed about us stuffing him around.

Adam Treloar - The leadership group suggested he be the one moved to save us cap, they are frustated as his lack of defensiveness and can't see us winning a premership with someone who only front runs and while he has pace to breakaway his foot skills don't do enough damage to be a purely offensive player. They also refuse to beleive he can cope being in Melbourne with his partner in Queensland, he did not request 2-3 days a week to go up there what so ever that is a rumour. But he has been known to not go to training and stay home if his partner was sick or had the sniffles, based on this they can't see how he can cope with being in another state from his partner and child. Is owed 900k in 2021 due to back payments of performance incentives / renegotation. It is not 900k for the life of the contract, it goes back to 600k for 2022 and then builds back up to 750-800k by the final year. The deal of us paying 300k is to cover that first year, it is not for the life of the contract. Apparently Bucks didn't tell him the leadership group wanted him out, but someone let it slip and he found out through the media and that was the point he realized he can't stay.

Jayden Stephenson - Is a headcase, loves himself and thinks he's made it already. His contract is 600k after he renegotiated after wining the rising star. Collingwood are sick of having to monitor a professional athlete in the gym, he is known to not stick to his dedicated plan to the point of Collingwood basically now having a full time babysitter with him ensuring he does the full gym session. He is known as FIGJAM for a reason and isn't the most loved player at the club. Collingwood are trying to move him for an asset as while he has talent, they don't believe he will ever reach his ceiling with his work ethic and attitude. He wants to stay and beleives he can turn it around, we will only take something valuable for him otherwise take the risk on him growing up from the realisation we don't think of highly of him as he does himself.


Mason Cox - Sydney were looking hard at him, met him earlier in the year but the Hickey move has probably made that no longer, sneaky chance late still but they were the only suitor. Have verbally agreed to stretching his contract if he stays, Collingwood and Mason both happy for him to stay but if we can get a future pick and he can get a longer better deal at Sydney both see it as win win. He comes from the US, he understands that Sport is a business more then any other player so while he loves the club, he aint getting paid like this ever again so he's happy if we can move him to a club who can give him more.
Interesting to hear his contract isn't $900k x 5. If Collingwood are only paying one year, second round pick come on down.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Interesting take from a Pies fan. Make of this what you will:


Interesting to hear his contract isn't $900k x 5. If Collingwood are only paying one year, second round pick come on down.

Those things about Treloar are exactly why I'm not overly keen on him. The last thing we need is a midfielder who doesn't defend.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Anyone think we'll move on one of Schache / Dale?

[Axe Man]

Anyone think we'll move on one of Schache / Dale?

Surely we would have heard some rumblings by now, but you never know I suppose.

[Rocket Science]

... they are frustated as his lack of defensiveness and can't see us winning a premership with someone who only front runs and while he has pace to breakaway his foot skills don't do enough damage to be a purely offensive player ...

This is a valid take for mine and makes me seriously query whether the investment - not just monetarily but culturally, etc - is simply too big for attributes, leg speed aside, we neither need nor want.

[bornadog]

In all this trading talk, the one area we haven't addressed is another KPD.

What do we do next year? Do we hope Lew Young comes good? Does Trengove stay and be our FB or do we rely on an undersized Cordy or inexperienced Gardner.

[soupman]

Hope our midfield with the addition of the sprightly Martin and defensive pressure Treloar never lose a clearance ever?

[1eyedog]

This is a valid take for mine and makes me seriously query whether the investment - not just monetarily but culturally, etc - is simply too big for attributes, leg speed aside, we neither need nor want.

Yeah well Dumbkley can't kick and is slow. You can't have everything.

[Bullies]

Those things about Treloar are exactly why I'm not overly keen on him. The last thing we need is a midfielder who doesn't defend. Never see Martin and Dangerfield defend either and they haven't turned out to bad. Talking to a few Pies supporters and they are shattered.

[1eyedog]

Never see Martin and Dangerfield defend either and they haven't turned out to bad. Talking to a few Pies supporters and they are shattered.

Hearing the same. They loved how he could continually find the ball and break away. Rare traits.

[bornadog]

More draft rule changes ...
By Peter Ryan


Although list sizes are being cut to a minimum of 37 as per Michael Gleeson's report this morning clubs have been told of two shifts in the rules relating to the draft being held in December.


The AFL have reduced the requirement that clubs take three selections at the draft to just one. Most clubs will make more than one pick but several clubs are considering adding one player from the total pool and then using the remaining points to put academy, father-son or NGA graduates on the list.


The second change is that clubs will be able to take selections into the national draft as if the primary list is still at 40. This is important as clubs have had to take as many picks into the draft as they had list spots available but the uncertainty around list sizes left them concerned about what they could do this season. Some clubs also wanted to potentially trade picks on the night so having an extra number would increase liquidity into the system.

This is a very important change.

[Rocket Science]

Yeah well Dumbkley can't kick and is slow. You can't have everything.

Naturally, but when the tide turns against us in games as it often dramatically does, are we particularly well served by another one-way mid accused of conditional efforts?

He's not enough of a difference-maker to compensate, for mine.

[soupman]

That seems very flexible.

Would imagine it's good news for Cavarra, Hayes and Porter who are all out of contract and not yet delisted implying that we are hoping to keep them should the list rules allow. God knows why we are so desperate to keep Porter though.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Naturally, but when the tide turns against us in games as it often dramatically does, are we particularly well served by another one-way mid accused of conditional efforts?

He's not enough of a difference-maker to compensate, for mine.

How many mids are two way runners in the comp though these days?

There's really not many, which is why if you win the mid battle, you win the game most times.

[GVGjr]

Anyone think we'll move on one of Schache / Dale?

I suspect no only because we should have heard some more speculation over the last 2 days.

I'd like to keep Schache but if he is in the Doghouse then maybe a trade should be considered

That has happened to the good old player for player trades?

[The Underdog]

How many mids are two way runners in the comp though these days?

There's really not many, which is why if you win the mid battle, you win the game most times.

Think we have somewhere between 0 & 2, depending on your definition of a mid.

[1eyedog]

Naturally, but when the tide turns against us in games as it often dramatically does, are we particularly well served by another one-way mid accused of conditional efforts?

He's not enough of a difference-maker to compensate, for mine.

Treloar assists immeasurably with the tide not turning, or if it does we are better placed on the scoreboard to mitigate impact. I dunno I'm happy to play Treloar over Roarke or Will Hayes, providing we can afford him and his medical checks out of course.

People talk about a key defender and quality small forward, well they just ain't available. Where are these players people want to splurge on?

Treloar is gettable and is high quality. I'm not sure how he can be such an excellent player yet not make us better.

[Mofra]

Interesting - Stephenson likely to be done for a second rounder + extras (from the Ben Brown deal), Collingwood tried to add Phillips to the deal and North said no.

Reading between the lines - if Collingwood don't get rid of at least two of Stephenson, Treloar or Phillips they're in cap trouble.

[Mofra]

Treloar is gettable and is high quality. I'm not sure how he can be such an excellent player yet not make us better.
On his full contract I'm not interested. With Collingwood paying a fair chunk of it, I'm all ears.

[LostDoggy]

So, I feel it’s likely we keep dunks and get treloar, if that happens, what’s our centre bounce mix? Does Bont spend more time as a CHF?

[WBFC4FFC]

So, I feel it’s likely we keep dunks and get treloar, if that happens, what’s our centre bounce mix? Does Bont spend more time as a CHF?

And Naughton down back. There's your Key Position Defender for a portion of the game.

I do note his marking is irreplaceable but as an overall, the side is better.

[comrade]

Hold firm, Sammy.

[bornadog]

Sam Edmund

The Dunkley negotiations have just pushed Adam Treloar's potential move to the Dogs to the sidelines momentarily. But some major work to do there too, given the Dogs are only willing to pay Treloar $600k a season, which leaves the Pies with a $300k annual payment for five years

[1eyedog]

Sam Edmund

The Dunkley negotiations have just pushed Adam Treloar's potential move to the Dogs to the sidelines momentarily. But some major work to do there too, given the Dogs are only willing to pay Treloar $600k a season, which leaves the Pies with a $300k annual payment for five years

This is a mare for the Pies. Talk about shitting the bed and being unable to wake up from it.

It really couldn't have happened to a nicer club.

[Axe Man]

Sam Edmund

The Dunkley negotiations have just pushed Adam Treloar's potential move to the Dogs to the sidelines momentarily. But some major work to do there too, given the Dogs are only willing to pay Treloar $600k a season, which leaves the Pies with a $300k annual payment for five years

So the Dunkley negotiations are back on?

[bornadog]

So the Dunkley negotiations are back on?



Mark Stevens
@Stevo7AFL
·
Nothing at all may happen at Dogs with Treloar and Dunkley. A chance now zero movement either way.

[Axe Man]

Mark Stevens
@Stevo7AFL
·
Nothing at all may happen at Dogs with Treloar and Dunkley. A chance now zero movement either way.

So nothing might happen.
or Dunkley & Treloar might happen.
or just Treloar might happen.
or just Dunkley might happen.

Glad we have narrowed down the options with under 2 hours to go!

[bornadog]

So nothing might happen.
or Dunkley & Treloar might happen.
or just Treloar might happen.
or just Dunkley might happen.

Glad we have narrowed down the options with under 2 hours to go!

Either way we win.

Worst option is two first rounders

[Rocket Science]

Given it's the unofficial 'marquee' move of this year's trade period if it happens you can *guarantee* the AFEL will mandate confirmation be held back until 5 seconds prior to the deadline.

[hujsh]

Interesting that we haven't traded any picks so far. I guess we can trade them in the lead-up/on the day right?

Hope we aren't waiting on Dodo before doing what we need to do because that's a fools game.

[comrade]

Interesting that we haven't traded any picks so far. I guess we can trade them in the lead-up/on the day right?

Hope we aren't waiting on Dodo before doing what we need to do because that's a fools game.

Picks can be traded up until and on draft night.

[bulldogtragic]

List:

1. Treloar - Young
2. Martin - Dickson
3. Hannan - Lynch
4. List Size Reduce - Gowers
5. List Size Reduce - Greene
6. Draft Pick 1
7. Draft Pick 2
8. Draft Pick 3
9. Draft Pick 4
10. Draft Pick 5

= 5 More Delistings Required From Main List

From: Trengove, Duryea, Cavarra, Hayes, Porter & Suckling (Roarke, Buku are rookies)

Otherwise stated only one of ^^^^ can stay on.

[Doc26]

Soz, BT but why are we committed to a min of 5 draft picks. Has this shifted from the min. 3?

[KT31]

Soz, BT but why are we committed to a min of 5 draft picks. Has this shifted from the min. 3?

May have to do with the list size reduction of two.

[jazzadogs]

Depending on where the JUH bid comes, we will need 5 picks worth of points - and you can only use picks for points, if you have a list spot open for it.

If we don't cut 5, we would definitely go in to deficit.

[bulldogtragic]

Soz, BT but why are we committed to a min of 5 draft picks. Has this shifted from the min. 3?

Need to have the spots open to use the picks. If we went in with only our first 3 picks, we couldn’t use the draft points attached to the last two. Technical thing the afel brought in to stop exploitation of the points system.

[comrade]

Hasn't there been a tweak on that literally announced today with list size changes?

[Doc26]

Just came across this brilliant image just uploaded on Twitter.
Not sure if it’s a Woof member, but credit to Ryan88.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/v0jcvtcwqjw0c9a/Photo%2012-11-20%2C%209%2053%2022%20pm.jpg?raw=1

[bulldogtragic]

I haven’t seen this year, but for me with 5 of the 6 needing to go:

Trengove - Gone with Martin
Cavarra - Gone with Hannan
Porter - Gone with Treloar
Hayes - Cut (and re-drafted should he make it to us and we wanted him)
So, one of either Duryea or Suckling as a mature HBF to stay.

[bulldogtragic]

Hasn't there been a tweak on that literally announced today with list size changes?

I read that the cut is two main list as the main takeaway.

[azabob]

I haven’t seen this year, but for me with 5 of the 6 needing to go:

Trengove - Gone with Martin
Cavarra - Gone with Hannan
Porter - Gone with Treloar
Hayes - Cut (and re-drafted should he make it to us and we wanted him)

So, one of either Duryea or Suckling as a mature HBF to stay.

EasternWest wants Suckling to stay. I heard if he Suckling goes, EW is done with woof and AFL

[The Adelaide Connection]

Depending on where the JUH bid comes, we will need 5 picks worth of points - and you can only use picks for points, if you have a list spot open for it.

If we don't cut 5, we would definitely go in to deficit.

I guess there is nothing stopping us from cutting them and letting them know that we intend on redrafting them with late, late picks (once the points picks are chewed up).

[Bulldog Revolution]

I haven’t seen this year, but for me with 5 of the 6 needing to go:

Trengove - Gone with Martin
Cavarra - Gone with Hannan
Porter - Gone with Treloar
Hayes - Cut (and re-drafted should he make it to us and we wanted him)
So, one of either Duryea or Suckling as a mature HBF to stay.

I think Sucklings body is failing him too often now - he’s been a super recruit but I think he’s done

[GVGjr]

I haven’t seen this year, but for me with 5 of the 6 needing to go:

Trengove - Gone with Martin
Cavarra - Gone with Hannan
Porter - Gone with Treloar
Hayes - Cut (and re-drafted should he make it to us and we wanted him)
So, one of either Duryea or Suckling as a mature HBF to stay.

We should (but won't) keep Trengove
Duryea should be kept as well

[bornadog]

Soz, BT but why are we committed to a min of 5 draft picks. Has this shifted from the min. 3?

Min drafting has now been reduced to one. New AFL draft rule

[bulldogtragic]

EasternWest wants Suckling to stay. I heard if he Suckling goes, EW is done with woof and AFL

Then best someone with Facebook thing start a page and a change.org petition to support ‘Eastern West in his life long quest to have Suckling listed indefinitely’. We do this in your name EW.

[GVGjr]

We will have to have as many spots open on our playing list to accommodate the JUH points. If that is 4 picks then then that is what we will need to have open. I can see us delisting and then redrafting a player

[The Bulldogs Bite]

High chance that the AA 2021 midfield is actually our entire midfield.

[Happy Days]

https://i.postimg.cc/4xNQYnVT/4m2kpi-1.jpg

[GVGjr]

I suspect Rhylee West might not be as excited to have Adam Treloar as a team mate next season.
There will be a squeeze on midfield minutes anyway but I think this puts him further out of calculations

[bulldogtragic]

We will have to have as many spots open on our playing list to accommodate the JUH points. If that is 4 picks then then that is what we will need to have open. I can see us delisting and then redrafting a player

I can’t see any less than 5 looking at the math. But there’s MacPherson &/or Raak if we want them. So it could be two live picks. One say Will Hayes and one kid. It’s not a bad position, and also pruning the list isn’t the worst thing either. Depending on the full extent of the draft rule changes, we could leave a spot open for after the draft and elevate a rookie should one deserve it and take no kids outside the ones we’ve been keeping very close tabs on.

[1eyedog]

I suspect Rhylee West might not be as excited to have Adam Treloar as a team mate next season.
There will be a squeeze on midfield minutes anyway but I think this puts him further out of calculations

I'm not sure he's quite ready to play midfield yet. He'll be fine. We don't know what happens to Dunks in two years and Libba has two years left at most you'd think. He'll certainly get his chance to impress.

[FrediKanoute]

I'm not sure he's quite ready to play midfield yet. He'll be fine. We don't know what happens to Dunks in two years and Libba has two years left at most you'd think. He'll certainly get his chance to impress.

Lipinski is the one who will be squeezed out, which is a shame, but needs must

[mjp]

I suspect Rhylee West might not be as excited to have Adam Treloar as a team mate next season.
There will be a squeeze on midfield minutes anyway but I think this puts him further out of calculations

There is always room in a team of 22 for good players.

If West is prepared to:
- Be aggressive in his efforts to win the ball
- Run when others choose to rest, walk or jog.
- Tackle when others concede

Then he will be fine.

Every year we look at the premiership team and think '5 or 6 of those blokes would struggle to get a game in our magoos'...yet there they stand with Premiership medals. Hell, Nathan Broad is actually not that good and he has 3 of them (medals) around his neck. He does things others wont and doesn't care where the credit goes.

From what I am led to believe, if given a solid block of games West will figure this out and play a lot of footy.

[comrade]

There is always room in a team of 22 for good players.

If West is prepared to:
- Be aggressive in his efforts to win the ball
- Run when others choose to rest, walk or jog.
- Tackle when others concede

Then he will be fine.

Every year we look at the premiership team and think '5 or 6 of those blokes would struggle to get a game in our magoos'...yet there they stand with Premiership medals. Hell, Nathan Broad is actually not that good and he has 3 of them (medals) around his neck. He does things others wont and doesn't care where the credit goes.

From what I am led to believe, if given a solid block of games West will figure this out and play a lot of footy.

What are your thoughts on our trade period?

Can you see the midfield group working with Treloar now in it?

[Sedat]

Hell, Nathan Broad is actually not that good and he has 3 of them (medals) around his neck.
Thankfully, 1 of the 3 medals is around his girlfriend's neck

[SquirrelGrip]

Thankfully, 1 of the 3 medals is around his girlfriend's neck

I think “girlfriend” is a pretty loose term there.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

So do we have enough points now to match a Jamarra bid at say pick 2?

[bulldogtragic]

So do we have enough points now to match a Jamarra bid at say pick 2?

Yep. With 300 points left over for MacPherson & Raak if we want them.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Yep. With 300 points left over for MacPherson & Raak if we want them.

Thanks! Your homecoming timed perfectly with plenty of positivity and optimism. Is BT Sam Power?

[GVGjr]

Thanks! Your homecoming timed perfectly with plenty of positivity and optimism. Is BT Sam Power?

Now that you mention, that makes a lot of sense :)

[Mofra]

We should (but won't) keep Trengove
Duryea should be kept as well
I'd drop back Duryea to the rookie list, with McLean as an LTI Duryea will still be available for selection but that means we can use a draft pick for points as we have his list spot free.

I'd sign Sam Skinner as a DFA to the rookie list or take him in the rookie draft as KPD depth. If he gets over his knee issues he'll push for selection.

[Mofra]

Yep. With 300 points left over for MacPherson & Raak if we want them.
Fingers crossed Raak slips and we grab im as a Cat B pick.
MacPherson was invited to testing so I assume the "three clubs nomination" is still in place and he's in the frame for a late bid.

[bulldogtragic]

Fingers crossed Raak slips and we grab im as a Cat B pick.
MacPherson was invited to testing so I assume the "three clubs nomination" is still in place and he's in the frame for a late bid.

With the 197 point discount applying to them (passed the first round), and free matched bidding after Pick 55, it's nice to know we can grab them if we want to inn addition to JUH with the picks we have. That Collingwood pick trade is just outrageously good. Cat B would be greedy. I like greedy.

[Bulldog4life]

Now for the player's numbers. Who will get what?

[bulldogtragic]

Now for the player's numbers. Who will get what?

EasternWest phoned it in, he says, Treloar for Jumper #1.

[Bulldog4life]

EasternWest phoned it in, he says, Treloar for Jumper #1.

But what will Suckers have? :D

[bulldogtragic]

But what will Suckers have? :D

EasternWest's admiration.

[Axe Man]

EasternWest phoned it in, he says, Treloar for Jumper #1.

Surely #1 will be retired and hung from the roof at Marvel if the great man doesn't go around again!

[bulldogtragic]

Surely #1 will be retired and hung from the roof at Marvel if the great man doesn't go around again!

Yes. Yes.

'The Doug Hawkin's Wing' - and -

'The Matthew Suckling Left Hand Only Side of The Ground'. Where only ALL the grounds vendors are on, because there's no business being done on the right.

[soupman]

Alright trade week is over wasn't that enjoyable lets do that again.

The next fun thing to think about is what next.

Atm by my count we have 39 senior listed players, and 4 rookies. We are allowed a max of 38 senior listed players, and 6 rookies (cat B are bonus I think).

We have 5 draft picks worth points to cover JUH, however you need an open list spot to use a draft picks points so that means we need to cut our list down to 33* to cover a bid for JUH.

That means 6* have to go. Trengove, Porter, Cavarra, Hayes, Duryea and Suckling are all out of contract. Lloyd is the other player i would nominate as being a possible, although I doubt we will do it, even though Hannan pushes him even further back in the queue.

Who of those 7 do you retain? I am assuming we will keep Lloyd and cut the out of contract guys, but others may have other ideas.

The next step is you now have 5 list spots you can fill, and after JUH takes one of them you are picking at the very back of the draft for all of them. So what then?

These are our options:
A) Grab the guys we've been looking at for a couple of years now; Ewan McPherson and Cody Raak. Even though they've had a year off we should have a pretty good idea from having them train with us and be involved with our programs if we rate them or not. On the flipside if they attract no bids we surely let them slide to the rookie draft. If no one picks them up in the real thing then we get to add them to our list automatically as rookies, and Raak could even be grabbed as a cat B (which we will probably just upgrade to cat A anyway for literally no reason). That would be ideal.

B) Pick up non affiliated kids. This is a risky option, the Victorians have had no season and the other junior leagues have had what i assume are at least somewhat shortened/compromised seasons, although almost definitely enough of a sample size to judge players on. In some cases this could be like going in blind, you are assessing them on what they were like as 17 year olds. On the plus side you may be able to snag someone who would've played themselves into the high draft pick range given the chance, but it's a very good chance that you are just making even more of an educated guess than usual. On top of that you are stuck with whoever you grab for at least 2 seasons as that is the guaranteed contract for draftees. Maybe save these guys for the rookie draft? Or do we go for 19-21 year olds that are a bit further developed and have a bit more exposed form against men?

C) Redraft the guys you cut. This is what I am expecting we do. There is a huge chance someone like Suckling or Hayes or Cavarra gets to relive the joy of hearing their name read out on draft night. This is good if we rate them, and probably a safe play as i can't see any other club being interested, however it is completely uninspiring seeing as they are all players that have either failed to contribute to our side in a positive manner for atleast this year and in some cases are prime eker candidates (Callum Porter who somehow is still on our list).

D) Promote rookies. I'm not sure if this can be done on the night, I've only seen it happen where a club promotes the rookie pre draft and they just get their name read out on the night so people still watching at pick 74 can turn to their mate and go "Did someone else actually call their kid Roarke Smith or is it the same one?". I am assuming if you promote them pre-draft then that counts as a list spot filled and therefore an invalid draft pick and no good for JUH purposes, but if the draft pick can still be used for points then I can totally see us doing this with Roarke or Buku. It means you are handing out just a one year deal to someone you know about rather than a 2 year deal to a mystery kid.

E) Grab a DFA the old fashioned way, by drafting them. Atm we are basically incapable of picking up a DFA (no not Dylan F***ing Addison) as they take a list spot which cancels out a pick. But if we do like someone, we could pick them up in the draft (or the PSD if we choose to wait but I'm not actually sure what the benefit to doing that would be). Say Brett Bewley from Freo who is out of contract isn't retained by Freo and we see a use for a hard running long kicking winger that likes gloves. He could be an excellent way to use our shrapnel draft picks to get someone who is a known quantity onto the list and potentially fills a need.

F) Pass. This is a super lame move when you've endured the entire draft to hear which athletic smokey your club is going to pick up only for them to just not do anything, but it could actually be a really good option. Firstly it enables us to participate in the wasteland that is the pre-season draft. That's good if a player doesn't get delisted but leaves a club anyway. Lachie Schultz also from Freo is a zippy small forward yet to sign a contract. If they reach an impasse and they refuse to delist him, then he can enter the PSD where we could pick him up. The other option with passing is that you leave a spot on your list blank. This seems dumb initially but it means you can sign someone onto your list much later after you've had a good long look at them. For example you could get an 18 year old kid you aren't sure on to do a pre-season with you and if you like him pick him up (as Richmond did with Sydney Stack). Or you can wait till the mid-season draft and pick up someone who has really excelled in a senior environment and whose career could soon be used as leverage to convince his much more talented brother to making an ill advised trade request or worse, a website featuring a tell all blog (like Kyle Dunkley). I'm pretty sure both these scenarios end up with said player being picked up as a rookie, but by leaving a spot blank it does enable us to do that.

So there are heaps of options for what we can do with 5 (4 really once JUH joins) list spots.

So who should we delist?
Should we be going for youth at the back end of the draft?
Should we target just interstate players whose progress we've been able to track, or gamble on Vic kids and hope we get lucky, or go for some older guys?
Should we just redraft the guys we cut?
Should we promote rookies if that's a way around it?
Should we just draft some bloke another club has decided isn't good enough?
Or should we pass so we can get someone in the PSD, or so we can try before we buy, or just so we can donate it to one of our players relatives to give them a reason to sign a new contract with us (can Bonts dad play second ruck????)?



*Amended some numbers to reflect a mathematical error on my behalf. We need to cut 6.

[bulldogtragic]

Keep Duryea, delist other contracted players.

Something like JUH, Macca, Raak, re-draft Hayes &/or Cavarra. Maybe use one other pick if there’s something we fancy either a kid or delisted player from elsewhere.

[hujsh]

Duryea and mayyybe Sucking seem the two most likely to stay. I can't see much point in Trengove, Hayes or Porter sticking around and Cavarra... well I wouldn't be upset exactly if we kept him but he doesn't seem like the instant impact mature recruit we'd have hoped he'd be.

[hujsh]

Keep Duryea, delist other contracted players.

Something like JUH, Macca, Raak, re-draft Hayes &/or Cavarra. Maybe use one other pick if there’s something we fancy either a kid or delisted player from elsewhere.

Considering he was benched, given a long talking to and then didn't play the final quarter of a match it looks like his card is stamped (please correct me if I got some of that wrong WOOFers)

[Axe Man]

Atm by my count we have 39 senior listed players, and 4 rookies. We are allowed a max of 38 senior listed players, and 6 rookies (cat B are bonus I think).

The Age article from yesterday indicates max 38 senior players + 4 regular rookies + 2 category B (if you have any).

So 42 total unless Raak or Khamis somehow qualify as cat B.

[soupman]

The Age article from yesterday indicates max 38 senior players + 4 regular rookies + 2 category B (if you have any).

So 42 total unless Raak or Khamis somehow qualify as cat B.

Oh shit does that mean I miscounted? Does that mean we need to cut 6 to get down to 33?

[Axe Man]

Oh shit does that mean I miscounted? Does that mean we need to cut 6 to get down to 33?

I'm not exactly sure. We currently have 33 contracted primary list players and 6 uncontracted, so if we need 5 list spots free on draft night like you are saying, I guess all 6 would have to go?

Also I'm pretty sure rookie upgrades haven't been done within the draft for years.

[Bulldog Joe]

For me it is a no brainer that we cut Trengove, Porter, Hayes and Cavarra and I also believe Suckling is done. I wouldn't even consider redrafting, but happy to see them on the list at Footscray with 1 or 2 rookie spots available that they could allow someone to be brought in if circumstances evolve to suit. Khamis and Roarke Smith might need to go also

Duryea I would keep.

I would also be prepared to delist contracted players in Lloyd and Dale, but redraft to meet their contract if they are not picked by another club.

Dale I would be keenest to keep, but Roarke Smith would be ahead of Lloyd for me.

[soupman]

Fwiw I would cut all the out of contract guys, so Suckling, Duryea, Porter, Cavarra, Hayes and Trengove all gone.

None of them to me represent depth that brings quality to the side, and most of them are depth that we have been super reluctant to use even with multiple opportunities to do so anyway. Duryea is the hardest cut and one I suspect we would redraft pretty quick, I think he is ok but Williams plays his role better and we have committed to Wood for 2 years and he seems best as a lockdown player on the smalls so I don't see a role for Duryea apart from depth, and with Butler, Khamis, probably McPherson and maybe Raak waiting in the wings i'm happy to move Taylor on.

I'd also pay out Lloyds contract, I like him but don't think he is that good and we do not need him when we have Hannan and Dale and Wallis and Weightman all on the list.

Assuming McPherson is good enough then he gets picked up regardless of whether a bid comes through or not. Apparently we are only allowed 4 rookies and I don't see us cutting any of Smith, Khamis, Sweet and Gardner to make room there for Ewan. If Raak doesn't attract a bid though that would be ideal as we could grab him as a cat B player.

So 1 list spot to JUH, and 1 to McPherson so far.

With the remaining three spots I'd be looking at getting a key defender prospect and a quick crumbing forward. Both are player types that can be quality despite commonly being found at the tail end of the draft. If Raak gets big on I guess he fills the key defender prospect but I'm not sure he is as big as I want, i would like someone close to the 200cm mark with an ability to fill out more than the likes of Gardner has. For the forward particularly I'd be looking at someone with exposed senior form in the role, as most of the good ones did an apprenticeship in the state leagues before getting picked up.

The last pick I'd pass on and opt for the whole try before you buy option by getting one or three blokes to do a pre season with us and earn their way onto the list. Very open to these being delisted guys, the winner gets a rookie spot with us for 2021.

[EasternWest]

EasternWest wants Suckling to stay. I heard if he Suckling goes, EW is done with woof and AFL

https://i.postimg.cc/63kjsWX5/images-4.jpg (https://postimages.org/)


I think Sucklings body is failing him too often now - he’s been a super recruit but I think he’s done

https://i.postimg.cc/63kjsWX5/images-4.jpg (https://postimages.org/)


Then best someone with Facebook thing start a page and a change.org petition to support ‘Eastern West in his life long quest to have Suckling listed indefinitely’. We do this in your name EW.

https://i.postimg.cc/63kjsWX5/images-4.jpg (https://postimages.org/)


EasternWest phoned it in, he says, Treloar for Jumper #1.

https://i.postimg.cc/MHsnMTpz/tenor-1.gif (https://postimages.org/)


But what will Suckers have? :D

https://i.postimg.cc/63kjsWX5/images-4.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[EasternWest]

EasternWest's admiration.

https://i.postimg.cc/63kjsWX5/images-4.jpg (https://postimages.org/)


Surely #1 will be retired and hung from the roof at Marvel if the great man doesn't go around again!

https://i.postimg.cc/63kjsWX5/images-4.jpg (https://postimages.org/)



Yes. Yes.

'The Doug Hawkin's Wing' - and -

'The Matthew Suckling Left Hand Only Side of The Ground'. Where only ALL the grounds vendors are on, because there's no business being done on the right.

https://i.postimg.cc/63kjsWX5/images-4.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[Happy Days]

I want that fat little small forward from the SANFL. I like the security of looking to the state leagues in this draft economy.

[EasternWest]

I want that fat little small forward from the SANFL. I like the security of looking to the state leagues in this draft economy.

Andrew Hooper?

[bornadog]

On the main list, with Treloar, we have 39 players and need to get to 38.

We are required to draft at least 1 player - JUH

I think we should still draft 3 players all up.

[FrediKanoute]

Delist

Porter - sorry, but he is behind Libba, Dunks, Lippa, West, Garcia - there is depth and then there is wasting a list spot;
Hayes - just can't see where he is going to play, especially with Vanders and now Treloar (who will result in someone moving to a wing);
Trengove - what role does he play? Not aback up backman. Not a back up ruckman. Time is up;

Borderline Delist

Dureya - he is injury prone. His best though and he is an important part of our backline. Leaning towards a delist
Suckers - father time is catching up. Again injuries haven't been kind and he struggles to make the best 25. Treloar pushes him out further as we have to make room on a wing and half forward.
Lloyd - appreciate he is still contracted, but I can't forgive the what he jibbed it against either the Pies or Saints in the 1st two rounds - awful - if he goes we keep Cavarra. If Lloyd stays then Cavarra goes.

Keep
Dale - he is frustrating, but at his best he knows how to kick goals. Poor year 2020 and running out of time. Had we kept Greene he would have been in danger, but losing Greene keeps him alive for another year
Cavarra - has some tools that can be useful and still has time to cement the small defensive forward spot. Its either him or Lloyd though - not both

[azabob]

Delist

Porter - sorry, but he is behind Libba, Dunks, Lippa, West, Garcia - there is depth and then there is wasting a list spot;
Hayes - just can't see where he is going to play, especially with Vanders and now Treloar (who will result in someone moving to a wing);
Trengove - what role does he play? Not aback up backman. Not a back up ruckman. Time is up;

Borderline Delist

Dureya - he is injury prone. His best though and he is an important part of our backline. Leaning towards a delist
Suckers - father time is catching up. Again injuries haven't been kind and he struggles to make the best 25. Treloar pushes him out further as we have to make room on a wing and half forward.
Lloyd - appreciate he is still contracted, but I can't forgive the what he jibbed it against either the Pies or Saints in the 1st two rounds - awful - if he goes we keep Cavarra. If Lloyd stays then Cavarra goes.

Keep
Dale - he is frustrating, but at his best he knows how to kick goals. Poor year 2020 and running out of time. Had we kept Greene he would have been in danger, but losing Greene keeps him alive for another year
Cavarra - has some tools that can be useful and still has time to cement the small defensive forward spot. Its either him or Lloyd though - not both

FrediKanoute I'm not sure we'd be in a position to pay out Dales contract with 2 years to go even if we wanted to.

[azabob]

What does it say about Schache, Dale and Lewis Young that there was not one rumour about a club at least asking the question.

Heck Power targeted Aliar rather than a home grown product in Lewis Young.

[dog town]

What does it say about Schache, Dale and Lewis Young that there was not one rumour about a club at least asking the question.

Heck Power targeted Aliar rather than a home grown product in Lewis Young. Basically zero interest in any of the players who fell out of favour with us. I would say it means that most other clubs see the same issues that our coaches have.

[dog town]

Pretty sure you can see Duryea, Khamis and Young on the Treloar video. Would think that means that they are staying.

[MrMahatma]

I’m surprised Doc is on the delist pile of so many here. Reckon we’re better with him in the team.

[ledge]

Just listened to a Sam Power interview where he mentioned Josh Dunkley being a long term player for us.. I see a contract extension coming with more $$$
I hope The club can get him in love with us again.
We have an awesome list and he is a huge part of it , I see some very astute contracts being made up to accommodate the main group because they are all extremely good in their strengths.