List Management for 2020/21

[GVGjr]

There is still some speculation that clubs will need to get down to 38 players for the 2021 season
This will mean that we will have to trim the list to 34 players to allow for the minimum 3 players you need to bring in via the draft and say one free agent signing. For every extra player you want to bring in another one has to either be traded or delisted

Likely departures
Matthew Suckling - Has expressed some interest to trying out for punters role in American Football and there is no question he is a sensational kick. On form he could be kept for another season but I'll park him as a likely departure for the time being

Jackson Trengove - Out of contract and out of favor with the MC isn't a good combination to get another season. His non selection this year doesn't sit well with me.

Buku Khamis - Promising young defender and the only reason he lands here is because of the reduced list size
I'd do what I could to get him to Footscray

Ben Cavarra - 3 games in two years might not be enough to maintain Cav on the list. I'd like to keep him but if the reduced list size happens he would be a consideration to be de-listed

Billy Gowers - I suspect there will be a tear in the eye of Bevo if it's up to him to deliver the news to Billy. 39 goals form 33 games highlights he has some claims to be maintained but just 3 games in 2020 won't help his cause.

Callum Porter - A late pick in the 2017 draft and has had 3 years on the playing list for just one senior game. From all accounts a great club man but I just can't find the point of difference with him to keep him on the list

Tory Dickson - A wonderful player for the Dogs since he arrived at the club after being drafted in 2011. Injuries have caught up with him and you have to think 2020 is his last year with us

Brad Lynch - An interesting journey since he arrived at the club as a skinny rookie in the 2015 draft. In his 5 years he has filled out nicely but he hasn't been able to crack it for a senior game for 2 years now.

Roarke Smith - A fan and MC favourite who has had more than his share of injuries. Drafted as a rookie in 2014 Smith has worked very hard for 19 senior games and the reduced list size comes at the wrong time for Smith

That's 9 players as likely departures and gets the list size down to 36


Under the microscope

Fergus Greene - A super promising player but constant injuries and a list jam packed with mid sized forwards might be problematic for Greene. Should be given another year and must make the most of any chances he gets for the balance of the season

Will Hayes - Promising year in 2019 but 2020 hasn't been as kind. I think he should be maintained but unless he performs well for the balance of the season it could be a line ball decision at the end of the season

Lachie Young - I suspect Lachie Young will be on our senior list in 2021 but as far as I know he hasn't been resigned yet so he will have a nervous wait. I wonder where we see his future with us because after a good year as a defender in 2019 he's been tried in some other positions this year.

Lin Jong - A real favourite for the Dogs supporters Jong has delighted and frustrated many over the years.
64 senior games since being drafted as a rookie in 2011. His 3 games this year were pretty good but another lengthy injury might be considered when we stare into the more difficult list management decisions.

Dropping 2 players for this list gets us down to 34 players


Less likely to be dropped but...

Taylor Duryea and Ryan Gardner

Both of them are coming out of contract but I think are very much in the MC plans for 2021

Lets assume they both stay

Could we do the unthinkable?

Easton Wood - He's had a decent year in 2020 and as Jeemak can confirm I've made my thoughts about Wood's lack of form for a few years now. I know he hoisted the premiership cup for us but if we are about to embark on a rebuild by stealth is there still room for the popular Easton Wood? The most likely scenario is 12 month contracts for Wood but we are just as likely to lock him in for 2 years.

Trade currency speculation

Lewis Young - Has struggled to establish himself as a senior player since debuting in 2017. I would imagine the Crows might look towards bringing Young back home to SA and with another year to go on his contract perhaps a trade would be considered.

Josh Schache - An immensely talented but laconic player, Schache seems to have fallen out of favor with the MC this year especially given the arrival of Josh Bruce. I think he has some trade currency and we might just look to move him out of the kennel if a decent offer is presented

With the Dogs looking for draft points perhaps we would be in interested in a decent offers

I'll try and frequently update this

[DOG GOD]

Gowers, Trengove, Lynch, Porter and Dickson are definite outs for mine.

[The Doctor]

How we finish the season will have some bearing on our list management decisions. There are still 3 important games to go and the opportunity for us to win them all and possibly still make the finals. Failure to make the finals this year should result in a forensic examination of our list as it will mean we have not made finals in 3 of the past 4 years. In 2019 when we made the finals we were dumped without much of a whimper in the first week. That is enough evidence for me to suggest our list needs bolstering with midfielders and forwards needed.

The decision on what happens to list sizes and salary cap will obviously have a bearing on what we can/can't do as well.



Uncontracted in 2020 (as per Axeman's Player Contract Status Thread)

Senior List

Easton Wood, Billy Gowers, Fergus Greene, Jackson Trengove, Taylor Duryea, Lin Jong, Brad Lynch, Ben Cavarra, Will Hayes, Callum Porter, Tory Dickson, Matt Suckling

Rookie List

Lachie Young, Jordan Sweet, Roarke Smith, Ryan Gardner, Buku Khamis


Keep - Wood & Duryea

Both premiership players with a wealth of experience and arguably the best 2 players on the uncontracted list. Offer them a 12 month extension

Rookies Keep

Lachie Young, Sweet, Khamis

Hold pending trades & List size decision - Greene, Trengove, Jong, Cavarra, Hayes, Gardner

Hayes & Gardner are in the senior team at the time of writing this so they have an advantage in promoting their cause to a contract renewal. The others face a bigger battle. All of them however have not secured a place in the senior team for one reason or another and have been in and out or long term injured.

I would like us to be aggressive in the trade period and look to bring in players who can address our needs better than these guys can. I am yet to be sold on any of them as key contributors going forward.

Retire - Suckling & Dickson

Father Time is calling

Delist - Gowers, Lynch, Porter, Smith

They have been around long enough and I can't see them making it.


Contracted Trade Bait

Bailey Dale, Pat Lipinski, Ed Richards, Toby McLean

I doubt any of them will be traded but I would be listening to any offers and if something of value that helps us secure a player of need comes up we should consider it.

Schache has his detractors but I would like to keep him. Like the 4 above he is good on his day but mostly frustrating. The difference is he is a KP forward and they don't grow on trees. I would persevere for a bit longer. Same goes for Lewis Young.


Trade Targets

Do we have the kahuna's to make a bold play this year? What about having a crack at;

Free Agents

Zac Williams (GWS) he will be 26 in 2021 with just over 100 games. Brings speed, decisive kicking and versatility. He's expensive but he's ideal for us.

Jack Viney (Melb) also 26 next year with 130 games. Brings grunt to a midfield that lacks it. Our beltings in recent times have come when our midfield has meekly rolled over.

Out of Contract

Toby Nankervis (Rich) also 26 next year with 70 odd games. He's a two time premiership ruckman. He would also be my priority. In fact I would be selling him the number 1 ruck role. English needs help and time. Bevo has to stop this pig headedness and address the ruck malaise asa matter of urgency.

Tom Papley (Swans) 24 yo approaching 100 games. one of the best small forwards in the game. Why wouldn't we want him?

Out of Contract Boom/Bust Bargains

Cedric Cox (Bris) He's a 23yo winger/forward we were linked heavily with him in his draft year. Can't get a game.

Nakia Cockatoo (Geel) Exciting but perenially injured 24yo who might like a change of scenery?


Football Dept - Neil Balme, his record speaks for itself. He would make a difference.

[Grantysghost]

I'm a big wrap for Ainsworth from Suns in that small forward role. He was very good against North on the weekend. Might take a bit to pry him out though. He played half forward more in that game and he kicks well.

[bornadog]

The Doctor - great analysis. You have 5 delisted or retired from main list. Is this enough? Does Sweet and La Young stay as rookies?

From contracts expiring in 2020, I think in danger are Trengove, Greene, and maybe Hayes.

[The Doctor]

The Doctor - great analysis. You have 5 delisted or retired from main list. Is this enough? Does Sweet and La Young stay as rookies?

From contracts expiring in 2020, I think in danger are Trengove, Greene, and maybe Hayes.

The variables for delisting come from the 'Hold pending trades/list size' section and/or trading of contracted players section.

I wouldn't want to go into this draft with too many picks. The more trade or free agency acquisitions the deeper we cut.

Ive added in Sweet & Young.

[Sedat]

Hayes is a keeper for mine. We saw how much we struggled without Hunter and his elite tank when he was out suspended. Hayes has similar attributes, albeit still the unfinished article. Ditto Richards. Wingmen who can run all day - deep to help out the defence and forward to link up in our attacking chains - are worth their weight in gold in the modern game, and we don't really have others on the list who can perform this specialist role apart from these 3.

I think Wood needs to transform his game into being our key defensive stopper - he has already started this in the last few weeks with some success. Morris played on the most dangerous talls or smalls and we need Wood to convert his game into a similar role. We have enough rebounders and interceptors in D50.

[The Doctor]

Hayes is a keeper for mine. We saw how much we struggled without Hunter and his elite tank when he was out suspended. Hayes has similar attributes, albeit still the unfinished article. Ditto Richards. Wingmen who can run all day - deep to help out the defence and forward to link up in our attacking chains - are worth their weight in gold in the modern game, and we don't really have others on the list who can perform this specialist role apart from these 3.


If we were to bring in Zac Williams or Rory Atkins would you still hold this view?

[Sedat]

If we were to bring in Zac Williams or Rory Atkins would you still hold this view?
I'm not a Rory Atkins fan at all. I don't think he is an upgrade on Hayes or Richards, both of whom have more scope for improvement IMO.

I am 100% chips in on Zac Williams. I rate him massively as an exceptional deliverer by foot rebounding from D50 and also as a key part of our midfield rotations, both inside and outside.

[Grantysghost]

I'm not a Rory Atkins fan at all. I don't think he is an upgrade on Hayes or Richards, both of whom have more scope for improvement IMO.

I am 100% chips in on Zac Williams. I rate him massively as an exceptional deliverer by foot rebounding from D50 and also as a key part of our midfield rotations, both inside and outside.

Do we have the cap space?

[azabob]

Regardless if we make finals or not, we need to continue to cut deep into our list. For the players I am saying to resign we should only do so for 12 months. My reason behind this is we purely the interruption to the lower grades and the under 18 games and the lack of exposed form.

Keeping with the theme that list sizes will be 38 and we need to add three via the draft / rookie list upgrades I believe we should make the following changes.
I do wonder if three new players will need to be added with reduction of list sizes.

Based of Axeman super awesome and often forgotten Contract thread

Must Re-sign –Easton Wood, Taylor Duryea, Will Hayes, Lin Jong, Matt Suckling
Not fussed – Jordan Sweet, Ben Cavarra, Ryan Gardner, Lachie Young
Would like to keep but unlikely – Jackson Trengove and Buku Khamis
Delist – Sam Lloyd (payout contract), Tory Dickson, Billy Gowers, Brad Lynch, Cal Porter, Roarke Smith, Fergus Greene,

Jordan Sweet is obviously a must sign but I’m not sure of the point, clearly, we don’t intend on ever playing him. We need to bring in another readymade ruckman.

Jackson Trengove from the outside looking in provides leadership, is well liked and respected within the playing group but clearly isn’t in the MC plans.

Sam Lloyd not sure how’d we do it but I truly don’t see the point keeping him on our list, I’d prefer to keep Cavarra, Greene or Khamis

Contracted Trade Bait

Bailey Dale, Pat Lipinski, Toby McLean, Cody Weightman

With Cody Weightman I am likely to be throwing the baby out with the bathwater but if his name was brought up in trade discussions for a player of need we should listen.


Trade Targets

Contracted

Ian Hill (GWS) Contracted till 2022 but has zip and flair. Is in and out of their team. I think he might’ve actually be a decoy long term signing to allow them to bring in more talent or high draft picks.

Out of Contract

Toby Nankervis (Rich) Ready made number 1 ruck.

Brennan Cox (Fre) He's a 22yo key defender who is clearly able to play at this level but may be pushed out once a few Fremantle mainstays return from injury.

Josh Dacois (Coll) Small forward who knows how to kick a goal, we need one. Yes it is the longest of long shots, but you don’t know unless you ask. He'd be well down the pay scale.

Brandon Parfitt (Gee) Likely to stay but we should be asking the question. Hard at it forward / midfielder who likes to tackle

[Remi Moses]

Wow ! Bit tough on weightman
Good write ups lads

[GVGjr]

Good list Aza,

Just on Trengove, with a reduced list size in 2021 and given we wouldn't play him this year I can't see why Bevo and the MC would consider him for next year. I get your logic though


Unless we drop some defenders if a list reduction occurs we will really be overstocked for back man. You have cleared out a heap of mid sized forwards

We have some hard decisions to make

[Bulldog Joe]

The variables for delisting come from the 'Hold pending trades/list size' section and/or trading of contracted players section.

I wouldn't want to go into this draft with too many picks. The more trade or free agency acquisitions the deeper we cut.

Ive added in Sweet & Young.

Don't we need plenty of picks to have the points for JUH plus Raak and maybe MacPherson.

[chef]

Where is BT?

[josie]

Gvgjr- please add me to list of woofers who miss BT’s top notch analysis & insightful posts. Wish him well from all the woofers like me who value his contributions.

[GVGjr]

Where is BT?



Gvgjr- please add me to list of woofers who miss BT’s top notch analysis & insightful posts. Wish him well from all the woofers like me who value his contributions.

I've been in contact with him today and he is in very good spirits and I let him know there has been a number of people asking about him.

[azabob]

Unless we drop some defenders if a list reduction occurs we will really be overstocked for back man. You have cleared out a heap of mid sized forwards

We have some hard decisions to make

I think this also disproportionate to our current list make up. We have a lot of mid size defenders and not too many mid sized forwards.

The issue is our mid sized defenders appear better and more equipped than our mid sized forwards. That could also be because of mjp theory of learning off good players. Such a simple theory but makes 100% sense.

[Axe Man]

Must Resign –Easton Wood, Taylor Duryea, Will Hayes, Lin Jong, Matt Suckling

Thought this bit was a bit harsh but then realised you probably meant re-sign? That - makes a world of difference.

[Mofra]

I think this also disproportionate to our current list make up. We have a lot of mid size defenders and not too many mid sized forwards.

The issue is our mid sized defenders appear better and more equipped than our mid sized forwards. That could also be because of mjp theory of learning off good players. Such a simple theory but makes 100% sense.
We tried Crozier forward before he settled in defence.
Given we traded for Crozier and Lloyd, and chased Martin and Wingard, it seems the club are very interested in medium forwards. We need class forward of the ball.

[Axe Man]

Just on a couple of names mentioned in here - Zac Williams reportedly wants $800-900K, not sure he's worth that much or if we could fit him in the cap. Atkins is supposedly heading to Gold Coast on a long term deal - if that's 4 or 5 years for a fringe type player they can have him.

[azabob]

We tried Crozier forward before he settled in defence.
Given we traded for Crozier and Lloyd, and chased Martin and Wingard, it seems the club are very interested in medium forwards. We need class forward of the ball.

That is true.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on our list management for 2020/21 when you get time.

[The Doctor]

With Cody Weightman I am likely to be throwing the baby out with the bathwater but if his name was brought up in trade discussions for a player of need we should listen.



Brandon Parfitt (Gee) Likely to stay but we should be asking the question. Hard at it forward / midfielder who likes to tackle

Can't agree with you Aza on Weightman. 1st year player with a bright future. It would want to be a bloody good offer! Has impressed me more than Cavarra.

Do agree on Parfitt though. He would be a nice fit.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Can't agree with you Aza on Weightman. 1st year player with a bright future. It would want to be a bloody good offer! Has impressed me more than Cavarra.

Do agree on Parfitt though. He would be a nice fit.

I'm glad you think that Doc because I haven't been quite impressed with him. I probably had too high expectations and for some reason thought he was more "ready to go" than other draftees. He looks very raw. But I like his endeavour. His 'go'. His personality is something we need. I just haven't liked how he's gone about it in his games so far.

[Mofra]

I'm glad you think that Doc because I haven't been quite impressed with him. I probably had too high expectations and for some reason thought he was more "ready to go" than other draftees. He looks very raw. But I like his endeavour. His 'go'. His personality is something we need. I just haven't liked how he's gone about it in his games so far.
Without wanting to sound harsh on Cal, Flea spent half his pre-season in the boondocks with Cal Porter who is hardly a senior AFL player with a mountain of experience.
He's also had no VFL games to work on our running patterns. We've had senior guys coming in cold (hello Dickson) and have little impact, so we need to reduce our expectations on Weightman for this year.

[FrediKanoute]

There was rumour/talk that the Doggies were keen on Moore from Collingwood. Does he fit what we need?

[azabob]

There was rumour/talk that the Doggies were keen on Moore from Collingwood. Does he fit what we need?

Yes there is a need. But I think there is zero chance.

[Happy Days]

Moore is going to re-sign at Collingwood and is waiting for whatever the deal with contract extensions is that makes zero sense to be cleared up. He’s said as much a bunch of times.

[Vred]

There was rumour/talk that the Doggies were keen on Moore from Collingwood. Does he fit what we need?

God that would be agood pick up if we could get him, his probably Collingwoods best defender

[Mofra]

We rarely play ducks and drakes with our trading intentions - and we've already signalled an intention to target a small pressure forward.
I'd expect Lonie from the Saints is target no 1, we miss out, and get Bedford from Melbourne as target no 2 who would surely see the writing on the wall after they drafted Kosi.
Melbourne don't have a first rounder this year and might just be desperate to get back in, so we organise a trade that gives us little to no points deficit with Melbourne handing us multiple picks and Bedford. Being indigenous is a bonus too.

I wonder if we'd ask about Hannan too? Medium forward, ex-Footscray VFL so we'd know him well, and with Dickson out and Lloyd getting to the end we really have Dale and Greene as medium forwards, with Wallis as a 'unique' forward.

I'd like another ruck on the list but who knows if that will happen.

[Happy Days]

Bedford is preferable to Lonie. Lonie is clearly a better player right now but doesn't have the traits we need, where as Bedford might and will presumably cost very little. Doing anything weird with our picks when there is no need to kinda seems like asking for it.

Hard no to Hannan, who has a preocupation with trying to sit on player's heads that totally mitigates any strengths he might have as a small forward. Fine if you're Liam Ryan or Charlie Cameron, but he aint.

Also probably need to keep the prospects of reduced list sizes in mind. Chopping a borderline AFL player who is well loved amongst the group (like Greene or Trengove) to bring in a speculative player buried down the depth chart from a worse team could be a good way to rock the boat.

[Mofra]

Another option for a cheap (almost free) type. Narkle from Geelong? OOC, and has genuine pace. Could be a wing/forward type and we've said we want to attract indigenous players to the club.

[Rocket Science]

Another option for a cheap (almost free) type. Narkle from Geelong? OOC, and has genuine pace. Could be a wing/forward type and we've said we want to attract indigenous players to the club.

Can play and arguably buried (or simply overtaken) in their system.

Then again, if Geelong's professional environment can't adequately develop Narkle's talents I'm not sure we're necessarily better placed to either.

[Mofra]

Then again, if Geelong's professional environment can't adequately develop Narkle's talents I'm not sure we're necessarily better placed to either.
Some players just need more time + opportunity.
Worked with Hamling, not so much with Djerkerra.

As a pure wing there are still whispers that Phillips from Collingwood is gettable. I'd jump at that.

[Axe Man]

We rarely play ducks and drakes with our trading intentions - and we've already signalled an intention to target a small pressure forward.
I'd expect Lonie from the Saints is target no 1, we miss out, and get Bedford from Melbourne as target no 2 who would surely see the writing on the wall after they drafted Kosi.
Melbourne don't have a first rounder this year and might just be desperate to get back in, so we organise a trade that gives us little to no points deficit with Melbourne handing us multiple picks and Bedford. Being indigenous is a bonus too.

I wonder if we'd ask about Hannan too? Medium forward, ex-Footscray VFL so we'd know him well, and with Dickson out and Lloyd getting to the end we really have Dale and Greene as medium forwards, with Wallis as a 'unique' forward.

I'd like another ruck on the list but who knows if that will happen.

There was talk of Petruccelle from the Eagles last year. Can't get a game this year and is out of contract I believe. He's quick and can kick a goal. Not sure what his tackling and pressure is like though.

[Mofra]

There was talk of Petruccelle from the Eagles last year. Can't get a game this year and is out of contract I believe. He's quick and can kick a goal. Not sure what his tackling and pressure is like though.
He's quick, but ineffective. He's been rotated in the centre as well at times.

All this talk of a wing is just purely wishful thinking on my part. I suspect we target the names we've been linked to (as we have done the past couple of years - Keith, Bruce, Lloyd) and then concentrate on maximising points for the NGA bids

[Axe Man]

He's quick, but ineffective. He's been rotated in the centre as well at times.

All this talk of a wing is just purely wishful thinking on my part. I suspect we target the names we've been linked to (as we have done the past couple of years - Keith, Bruce, Lloyd) and then concentrate on maximising points for the NGA bids

I was thinking as a small forward rather than wing, although I'm unsure of his best position.

[Axe Man]

Moneyball special: Your club’s obvious and left-field 2020 trade targets (https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/trade-hq/moneyball-special-your-clubs-obvious-and-leftfield-2020-trade-targets/news-story/df0455bffea9b5551e76a99c1ddff1ac)

WESTERN BULLDOGS
1. Trade conundrum

Luke Beveridge doesn’t mind having a crack at the trade table and the Bulldogs clearly have some space in the salary cap. Matthew Lloyd says the Dogs need some help for young ruckman Tim English. Could a potentially delisted Matthew Kreuzer get his body right and offer two base-salary seasons as a mentor?

2. Left-field target

Beveridge has dismissed suggestions Lachie Hunter might be on the move, with Brisbane being one of the interested clubs. We’ve got to take him at his word on that. But there could be a few other options the Dogs could consider to strengthen their position.

3. Who could look elsewhere

Lin Jong has stayed loyal to the Bulldogs over the years and has had little luck with injury. Could a new home give him greater opportunities? Jackson Trengove is coming off a significant deal.

4. Squeezed out?

Premiership forward Tory Dickson has managed only one game this season and the soon-to-be 33-year-old comes off his one-year deal soon. Billy Gowers is another who is off contract and could be under pressure.

[Happy Days]

Kreuzer as a DFA? Sure

[comrade]

Kreuzer as a DFA? Sure

Yeah, I'm all for that.

[Mofra]

Keuzer - in an absolute heartbeat.

Tim English looms as an ideal ruck/forward for a couple of years.

[azabob]

Moneyball special: Your club’s obvious and left-field 2020 trade targets (https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/trade-hq/moneyball-special-your-clubs-obvious-and-leftfield-2020-trade-targets/news-story/df0455bffea9b5551e76a99c1ddff1ac)



2. Left-field target

Beveridge has dismissed suggestions Lachie Hunter might be on the move, with Brisbane being one of the interested clubs. We’ve got to take him at his word on that. But there could be a few other options the Dogs could consider to strengthen their position.

.

So who is our left field target? Thanks for such an insightful article Herald Sun

[Grantysghost]

Vardy the Eagles ruck hasn't played this season. Notice he's listed as injured with a thigh for 4 weeks so his season maybe over. 29? Might be worth an enquiry as a big body in there to help out Tim.
Be OK with Kruezer but his body seems to let him down so often.

[azabob]

Vardy the Eagles ruck hasn't played this season. Notice he's listed as injured with a thigh for 4 weeks so his season maybe over. 29? Might be worth an enquiry as a big body in there to help out Tim.
Be OK with Kruezer but his body seems to let him down so often.

I think you will find Vardy has exactly the same injury problems as Kruzer.

Don't forget Vardy was also on Geelongs list at one stage.

I'd prefer Kruzer than Vardy. Kruzer can ruck.

[soupman]

What a piece of crap article. WTF is the left field section? What is so left field about saying "we thought a player might be leaving but the coach said he isn't".

A better version of the article is the following, only for demonstrative purposes only.

WESTERN BULLDOGS
1. Trade Conundrum.
Tim English has shown promising signs this season and has a big future to come, but is it a bi early to be relying on him as the Bulldogs number one ruck? Matthew Kreuzer is out of contract and well down the pecking order at Carlton, could a move to the Dogs reinvigorate his career and offer English the guiding hand he needs?

2. Left Field Target.
With Josh Bruce not working as well as hoped and their forwardline still lacking punch could it be worth asking about Jack Gunstons availability. The 28 year old is still performing in a poor Hawthorn side and could offer some much needed versatility and forward nous to a largely cobbled together forwarline.

3. Who Could Look Elsewhere?
Lewis Young looked set to become a regular part of the side with some promising performances at the end of last season but has struggled to get a look in this year playing just one game. Could a move back home to South Australia be on the cards?

4. Squeezed Out?
Taylor Duryea has been injured most of the season and is yet to play a game in what is now a settled backline. With Bailey Williams emergence could Duryea find himself on the out?

[comrade]

I'm still big on Goldstein. Just think he'd do wonders for English's development and is mobile enough that we can play both in the same side.

North should be in full rebuild mode, so it makes sense for them to move him on now (like we did with Lake).

[azabob]

I'm still big on Goldstein. Just think he'd do wonders for English's development and is mobile enough that we can play both in the same side.

North should be in full rebuild mode, so it makes sense for them to move him on now (like we did with Lake).

North have come out and said he is untouchable. Which probably means, you will need to pony up bigtime to get him.

We don't have draft picks, what players would you offer North?

[comrade]

North have come out and said he is untouchable. Which probably means, you will need to pony up bigtime to get him.

We don't have draft picks, what players would you offer North?

I'd give up a draft pick for 2021, second round.

I'd also put McLean, Lipinski and Richards on the table and see if a deal can be made around any one of them. I'd also consider taking Polec (though I don't rate him much) in a bundle deal to help them dump some salary cap.

[FrediKanoute]

I'd give up a draft pick for 2021, second round.

I'd also put McLean, Lipinski and Richards on the table and see if a deal can be made around any one of them. I'd also consider taking Polec (though I don't rate him much) in a bundle deal to help them dump some salary cap.

Why? For a washed up ruckman? That makes no sense at all. You are better off asking Will Minson back to the club as the ruck coach.

[comrade]

Washed up? He’s had a great year and the on field and off field benefits of having an experienced, quality ruckman would have positive ramifications for years to come.

[Remi Moses]

They’d want us to either take a large portion of his wage or they pony up and we give up an early pick

[Remi Moses]

Why? For a washed up ruckman? That makes no sense at all. You are better off asking Will Minson back to the club as the ruck coach.

Goldstein’s playing great footy

[bornadog]

Why? For a washed up ruckman? That makes no sense at all. You are better off asking Will Minson back to the club as the ruck coach.

I agree, he will be 33 next year. No way I would pay overs.

[Sedat]

I was quite impressed with Bobby Hill last night. Pace and skill are most welcome to walk through the doors at the kennel.

Assuming he is on a standard 2 year contract and would be out of contract at the end of this year?

[DOG GOD]

I was quite impressed with Bobby Hill last night. Pace and skill are most welcome to walk through the doors at the kennel.

Assuming he is on a standard 2 year contract and would be out of contract at the end of this year?

Yeah I thought he looked ok too Sedat. Would certainly bring that spark and X factor to our team. Skills looked good too.

[azabob]

I was quite impressed with Bobby Hill last night. Pace and skill are most welcome to walk through the doors at the kennel.

Assuming he is on a standard 2 year contract and would be out of contract at the end of this year?

Nope. Signed till end of 2022. Has been discussion on him on other threads. He signed a long term deal last year.

[SquirrelGrip]

Sydney Stack anyone?

[jeemak]

I'm still big on Goldstein. Just think he'd do wonders for English's development and is mobile enough that we can play both in the same side.

North should be in full rebuild mode, so it makes sense for them to move him on now (like we did with Lake).

I reckon he's the perfect player to get a two year deal and a coaching deal thereafter on the table for.

He's technically excellent, seems well enough liked and can cover a huge amount of ground and will be able to for the next couple of years unless something catastrophic happens to him.

North need to move on from him and get what they can, they're getting worse so it's highly unlikely he'll play finals with them from here. It makes sense for all parties.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I reckon he's the perfect player to get a two year deal and a coaching deal thereafter on the table for.

He's technically excellent, seems well enough liked and can cover a huge amount of ground and will be able to for the next couple of years unless something catastrophic happens to him.

North need to move on from him and get what they can, they're getting worse so it's highly unlikely he'll play finals with them from here. It makes sense for all parties.

I was keen a couple of years ago when he was having some personal issues, and it was clearly affecting his form.
I think that was the best time to try and nab him. Think we've missed thst boat and I reckon he'd be keen to finish his career with North.
Having said that given our ruck issues we'd be derelict in our duties if we didn't give his management a wave this off season.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I reckon he's the perfect player to get a two year deal and a coaching deal thereafter on the table for.

He's technically excellent, seems well enough liked and can cover a huge amount of ground and will be able to for the next couple of years unless something catastrophic happens to him.

North need to move on from him and get what they can, they're getting worse so it's highly unlikely he'll play finals with them from here. It makes sense for all parties.

Haven't North publicly stated he's one of the blokes not for sale too?

[jeemak]

According to a few posts earlier they've said he's not for sale, which says to me, he's for sale.

I mean why would you come out and say that when nobody is publicly asking?

In fact if he's not on the market then they have Dodoro like list management at that shit hole.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

According to a few posts earlier they've said he's not for sale, which says to me, he's for sale.

I mean why would you come out and say that when nobody is publicly asking?

In fact if he's not on the market then they have Dodoro like list management at that shit hole.

To be fair, they also grouped a bunch of players in that category, including Goldy, Higgins and Cunnington and a couple others that i can't immediately recall.

My guess is North don't want to go down Melbourne's hell hole, of clearing out all their experienced players that have some positive culture-fabric traits.
I'm more shocked that Higgins is held in that light? He's a finger waver for mine, and someone whom isn't essential to a club rebuilding.

[jeemak]

To be fair, they also grouped a bunch of players in that category, including Goldy, Higgins and Cunnington and a couple others that i can't immediately recall.

My guess is North don't want to go down Melbourne's hell hole, of clearing out all their experienced players that have some positive culture-fabric traits.
I'm more shocked that Higgins is held in that light? He's a finger waver for mine, and someone whom isn't essential to a club rebuilding.

Higgins would get a game in any side ever, he's a gun.

[EasternWest]

Higgins would get a game in any side ever, he's a gun.

He'd be amazing in strong side that doesn't need all it's players to work back the other way.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Higgins would get a game in any side ever, he's a gun.

This.

I know as Bulldogs faithful we like to harp on about Higgins' end with us but Macca didn't help him, playing him as a half back and he obviously had a lot of injuries.

He's been brilliant for Norf, we lost badly on his departure in the end.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Right now we need players willing to defend without the ball. He wouldn’t be the greatest example setter in this regard. Great skills but at the end of the day we won a flag without him and perhaps with him we don’t win it. We’ll never know but I’m one who believes the side that won us the flag is the one that won us the flag and any other changes could affect that. So I don’t think we lost out badly.

[Happy Days]

This.

I know as Bulldogs faithful we like to harp on about Higgins' end with us but Macca didn't help him, playing him as a half back and he obviously had a lot of injuries.

He's been brilliant for Norf, we lost badly on his departure in the end.

McCartney’s contempt for skilled players hurt Higgins more than just about anyone.

He still never should’ve let Craig Bird kick four goals though.

[Mitcha]

Sydney Stack anyone?
Nope, he has just shown the reason our club and every other club passed on him in the National draft and it wasn't due to a lack of talent. Too many off field issues, lots of homework done and too many red flags.

[bornadog]

Nope, he has just shown the reason our club and every other club passed on him in the National draft and it wasn't due to a lack of talent. Too many off field issues, lots of homework done and too many red flags.

When you say too many off field issues, have there been more than one? I don't believe so.

[Mitcha]

AFL clubs are big on background checks of prospective draftees speaking to pathway coaches, pathway club officials, employers, school teachers and other people with knowledge from club networks. These discussions play a massive role in determining character and whether the target player passes the dickhead test. As I said too many red flags.

[jeemak]

AFL clubs are big on background checks of prospective draftees speaking to pathway coaches, pathway club officials, employers, school teachers and other people with knowledge from club networks. These discussions play a massive role in determining character and whether the target player passes the dickhead test. As I said too many red flags.

Interesting that the team mate he was out with was a Scotch College boy, and drafted at number 20.

[Happy Days]

Interesting that the team mate he was out with was a Scotch College boy, and drafted at number 20.

Yeah I can’t believe he had to face any repercussions either.

[jeemak]

Yeah I can’t believe he had to face any repercussions either.

It ain't right.

[SquirrelGrip]

On-field, Stack is exactly the style of player we need. Explosive, strong defensive pressure, fleet of foot. It just highlights the balance of football needs versus human needs. We seem to have got the human side right since 2016.

[jeemak]

Didn't our vice captain get wankered and drive, wreck about six cars, flee the scene and involve two team mates in the process?

How does that rate in the scheme of things?

[bornadog]

Didn't our vice captain get wankered and drive, wreck about six cars, flee the scene and involve two team mates in the process?

How does that rate in the scheme of things?

Make no mistake, the boys on the Gold Coast did something that jeopardises the whole of the competition. There are strict rules in the Hubs, and the QLD government have been very accommodating but want everyone to follow the rules.

Yes Hunters case is bad but different situation as it had no repercussions on the whole of the AFL.

[EasternWest]

On-field, Stack is exactly the style of player we need. Explosive, strong defensive pressure, fleet of foot. It just highlights the balance of football needs versus human needs. We seem to have got the human side right since 2016.

I'd definitely take Stack.

From what I've heard, he's not actually a trouble maker, maybe just immature.

[jeemak]

Make no mistake, the boys on the Gold Coast did something that jeopardises the whole of the competition. There are strict rules in the Hubs, and the QLD government have been very accommodating but want everyone to follow the rules.

Yes Hunters case is bad but different situation as it had no repercussions on the whole of the AFL.

I was more commenting on the notion that we've gotten the human side of things right since 2016, though you could easily make an argument that 2017 was bad, 2018 things seemed to have gotten better and carried on that trend in 2019, but this year we've had one of our players have an absolute shocker.

What we don't know about is what we haven't heard about, and I guess things can happen at any club and you've only got things right personnel and player welfare wise until you don't.

[bornadog]

I was more commenting on the notion that we've gotten the human side of things right since 2016, though you could easily make an argument that 2017 was bad, 2018 things seemed to have gotten better and carried on that trend in 2019, but this year we've had one of our players have an absolute shocker.

What we don't know about is what we haven't heard about, and I guess things can happen at any club and you've only got things right personnel and player welfare wise until you don't.

Sorry, didn't mean to go off track.

I think we have got things right internally from what we have seen. There is always something that happens at club level that we are not told about. On the Hunter incident, well, he had some issues with his fiance and drank to much. I am not fussed about it, compared to a lot of things that happen and it has been dealt with, so please don't at him. :D

As you know in any club, especially with 45 players there is always going to be a few idiots about and it must be hard to keep them all disciplined and focused.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-trade-news-rumours-whispers-xavier-ohalloran-gws-giants-western-bulldogs-essendon/news-story/3cbe57f226e2b02fee70335d14a3ff6a?fbclid=IwAR0PmLeKgzvwU8xh9g lEpYRr7SdH24LaFVx3xtei7-MQ-5OEGGHsDEeCKwI

[comrade]

Saw a report that there are whispers about Michael Walters wanting out at Freo. Has been shot down by his manager but...

Um. Yes please.

[Grantysghost]

Saw a report that there are whispers about Michael Walters wanting out at Freo. Has been shot down by his manager but...

Um. Yes please.

God yeah.

[josie]

Freo looks like they are really going to have a high turnover of players...

[DOG GOD]

Saw a report that there are whispers about Michael Walters wanting out at Freo. Has been shot down by his manager but...

Um. Yes please.

The exact type of player we need.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-trade-news-rumours-whispers-xavier-ohalloran-gws-giants-western-bulldogs-essendon/news-story/3cbe57f226e2b02fee70335d14a3ff6a?fbclid=IwAR0PmLeKgzvwU8xh9g lEpYRr7SdH24LaFVx3xtei7-MQ-5OEGGHsDEeCKwI
Edit: we are being linked to O’Hallaran from the giants. Bombers, lions and cats also interested. Multiple clubs doesn’t ever end well for us but he has bulldogs links and we were keen on him in his draft year

[The Doctor]

Edit: we are being linked to O’Hallaran from the giants. Bombers, lions and cats also interested. Multiple clubs doesn’t ever end well for us but he has bulldogs links and we were keen on him in his draft year

well in this case I think we would have to be a chance. If he wants to return to Vic that rules out the Lions. Would Essendon be an attractive destination unless they are offering big $$? That leaves Geelong who have a deep experienced midfield for him to try and crack into. That leaves us and he's a Western Suburbs boy. I think we would be a good chance.

[Axe Man]

What's O'Halloran's trade value - second round pick?

[The Doctor]

What's O'Halloran's trade value - second round pick?

I think they would be lucky to get that. Our 3rd (not the Crows one we have) seems fair. This is loosely based on the Bonar depreciation scale.

[GVGjr]

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-trade-news-rumours-whispers-xavier-ohalloran-gws-giants-western-bulldogs-essendon/news-story/3cbe57f226e2b02fee70335d14a3ff6a?fbclid=IwAR0PmLeKgzvwU8xh9g lEpYRr7SdH24LaFVx3xtei7-MQ-5OEGGHsDEeCKwI

I'd normally be right into bringing a player like O'Halloran to the kennel but if he can't crack it for games at GWS given some of their injuries and with list spots very likely to be tight and that we already have some other priorities how do we squeeze him in?
With players like Hately and Caldwell they have some point of difference where O'Halloran is more of your good all round player perhaps without the hurt factor

I'm all for adding him into our list but I just wonder how we can do it

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I'd normally be right into bringing a player like O'Halloran to the kennel but if he can't crack it for games at GWS given some of their injuries and with list spots very likely to be tight and that we already have some other priorities how do we squeeze him in?
With players like Hately and Caldwell they have some point of difference where O'Halloran is more of your good all round player perhaps without the hurt factor

I'm all for adding him into our list but I just wonder how we can do it
Is he like Lipinski?

[EasternWest]

God yeah.

I'm in too.

We need bulldogtragic to log back on and get the deal done.

[GVGjr]

Is he like Lipinski?

Maybe with a bit more polish. He's quicker than Lipinski with better skills and is known as a genuine leader

[jeemak]

I'd normally be right into bringing a player like O'Halloran to the kennel but if he can't crack it for games at GWS given some of their injuries and with list spots very likely to be tight and that we already have some other priorities how do we squeeze him in?
With players like Hately and Caldwell they have some point of difference where O'Halloran is more of your good all round player perhaps without the hurt factor

I'm all for adding him into our list but I just wonder how we can do it

I guess the question is how does he compare to our players?

Honestly I don't know much about him so I'll defer to your advice on that, but in trading you shouldn't look at what someone can't do and instead look at what they can for you.

[AshMac]

Saw a report that there are whispers about Michael Walters wanting out at Freo. Has been shot down by his manager but...

Um. Yes please.

I’d take Walters in a heartbeat

[The Doctor]

Is he like Lipinski?

We don't have a big AFL sample size to assess this but based on his u/18 displays like Lipinski he is a nice kick of the footy. XOH has a better contested ball game and could play inside mid if needed. He would also be a lot quicker. I could see him play on a wing/half forward at this stage of his career and compete with the likes of Lipinski, Hayes, Richards for a senior spot. He was also captain of Vic Metro & the Western Jets.

[Vred]

I’m starting to think we do need another ruck after what we’ve been doing over the last few games...

[azabob]

I’m starting to think we do need another ruck after what we’ve been doing over the last few games...

A ruck should be our biggest priority no ifs, no buts, no maybes.

[Mofra]

English seems a perfect no 2 ruck/forward at this stage of his career. I still get the feeling Bevo will back him in to be a no 1 ruck next year after a pre-season. By god we're thin for depth though, especially if Trengove doesn't get a contract extension.

[The Doctor]

The ruck situation is to put it mildly, is diabolical, farcical, embarrassing & laughable.

Tim English will be a terrific ruckman in time. But right now he is still learning the craft at senior level and has ZERO support. The only other specialist ruckman we have is Jordan Sweet, who according to Bevo is not ready.

Can anybody realistically say that this is a premiership winning capable ruck set up?

I've been saying it for ages that we need more ruck depth & QUALITY on our list. So something sensible has to be done to support English NOW.

There are good ruckmen available if we have the balls to go after one. It has to be a priority.

[comrade]

We also have no one showing English the way at training, iron sharpening iron so the speak. Just for his ongoing development, an experienced, hardened ruck would be a huge benefit.

All aboard the Goldstein train.

[bornadog]

We also have no one showing English the way at training, iron sharpening iron so the speak. Just for his ongoing development, an experienced, hardened ruck would be a huge benefit.

All aboard the Goldstein train.

King is working with English

[Happy Days]

I’ve really liked the Saints and Port’s set ups this year with two rucks who can play either forward or in the middle, but with each being clearly better at one of the positions (we really should have looked at Ryder fwiw).

With that in mind, I reckon we could get Peter Wright for damn near free at this point.

[comrade]

King is working with English

Exactly.

[bornadog]

Exactly.

Not sure I understand your comment?

[GVGjr]

I’ve really liked the Saints and Port’s set ups this year with two rucks who can play either forward or in the middle, but with each being clearly better at one of the positions (we really should have looked at Ryder fwiw).

With that in mind, I reckon we could get Peter Wright for damn near free at this point.

I like the suggestion. Could Wright and the resting ruck man in English play in a forward line with so many other options like Naughton, Bruce, Schache and somewhere down that track Ugle-Hagan?

[GVGjr]

The ruck situation is to put it mildly, is diabolical, farcical, embarrassing & laughable.

Tim English will be a terrific ruckman in time. But right now he is still learning the craft at senior level and has ZERO support. The only other specialist ruckman we have is Jordan Sweet, who according to Bevo is not ready.

Can anybody realistically say that this is a premiership winning capable ruck set up?

I've been saying it for ages that we need more ruck depth & QUALITY on our list. So something sensible has to be done to support English NOW.

There are good ruckmen available if we have the balls to go after one. It has to be a priority.

You're spot on. Why do you think we chose to enter the season so paper thin for ruck man in terms of depth and experience?

[comrade]

Not sure I understand your comment?

Steven King is 41 and long retired, and isn't a dedicated ruck coach anymore.

It's nothing like competing and learning against a fellow full time active mature ruckman and if we're expecting it to be, then it's no wonder Timmy is struggling.

[GVGjr]

Not sure I understand your comment?

I think the premise is that English might be coached by King but he's not competing against another quality ruckman in most training sessions

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I like the suggestion. Could Wright and the resting ruck man in English play in a forward line with so many other options like Naughton, Bruce, Schache and somewhere down that track Ugle-Hagan?

Yeah there’s too many talls there for my liking.

What on earth has happened to 2 metre Pete? High draft pick who was highly rated and has just fallen away. I suppose ultimately he’d be competing with Bruce.

[Happy Days]

Dew has favoured Day for what I can only presume are structural reasons, but I think Wright is too good a player to not be in the AFL, which is the trajectory he's headed in. From memory and AFL Tables it doesn't look like he's ever been more than a supporting ruckman in his career, which could mean that he's no good at it, or could mean that Jarrod Witts is better and has the tank to ruck entire seasons by himself.

To be clear I like the Goldstein and Kreuzer suggestions more, but Wright is worth considering.

[bornadog]

Steven King is 41 and long retired, and isn't a dedicated ruck coach anymore.

It's nothing like competing and learning against a fellow full time active mature ruckman and if we're expecting it to be, then it's no wonder Timmy is struggling.

Age has nothing to do with it, and as I said King is working with Tim. There is also Trengove. I know what you are saying but at least there is something in place.

[Axe Man]

I would be surprised if we went after a ruckman of note, but if we did would Ben McEvoy be worth considering? A cleanout looms at the Hawks and at least he can also play as a key defender fitting in with Bevo's versatility mantra.

[Rocket Science]

I think the premise is that English might be coached by King but he's not competing against another quality ruckman in most training sessions

I'm so sick of Josh Dunkley's ruck craft being maligned around here. Have some respect please.

[Topdog]

Steven King is 41 and long retired, and isn't a dedicated ruck coach anymore.

It's nothing like competing and learning against a fellow full time active mature ruckman and if we're expecting it to be, then it's no wonder Timmy is struggling.

Is Tim struggling? He has been moved around a fair bit in recent weeks but other than not winning the hitout I'm not seeing the struggle.

He is progressing very nicely IMO and I look forward to more consistency coming, which we are already seeing glimpses of.

[comrade]

Is Tim struggling? He has been moved around a fair bit in recent weeks but other than not winning the hitout I'm not seeing the struggle.

He is progressing very nicely IMO and I look forward to more consistency coming, which we are already seeing glimpses of.

He's progressing nicely at everything but his actual ruck craft.

Jumps too early in the centre bounces, gets outpositioned easily in boundary throw ins and lacks contested ability/know how when the ball hits the ground at a stoppage. A hardened, experienced (active) ruckman to train against each day would do wonders for that side of his game, IMO.

[GVGjr]

I'm so sick of Josh Dunkley's ruck craft being maligned around here. Have some respect please.

Point taken, he's young and will get better

[hujsh]

I'd normally be right into bringing a player like O'Halloran to the kennel but if he can't crack it for games at GWS given some of their injuries and with list spots very likely to be tight and that we already have some other priorities how do we squeeze him in?
With players like Hately and Caldwell they have some point of difference where O'Halloran is more of your good all round player perhaps without the hurt factor

I'm all for adding him into our list but I just wonder how we can do it

Surely we have plenty of chaff to cut? I doubt any of R.Smith, Trengove, Gowers, Hayes, Lynch and probably Porter are here next year.

[Mofra]

Surely we have plenty of chaff to cut? I doubt any of R.Smith, Trengove, Gowers, Hayes, Lynch and probably Porter are here next year.
The MC seem to like R Smith as a role-player, we can't carry Roarke and Hayes in the team though.
If we manage to trade for XavOH then he may not survive the cull.

[azabob]

I would be surprised if we went after a ruckman of note, but if we did would Ben McEvoy be worth considering? A cleanout looms at the Hawks and at least he can also play as a key defender fitting in with Bevo's versatility mantra.

I'd prefer Jon Ceglar and mentioned him a while back.

Ceglar is a couple of years younger than McEvoy and can play forward.

[Axe Man]

I'd prefer Jon Ceglar and mentioned him a while back.

Ceglar is a couple of years younger than McEvoy and can play forward.

Yeah but why would Hawthorn trade Ceglar unless offered overs? I don't rate him as a forward either.

McEvoy I just see as more obtainable due to age and Hawthorns list position. However I doubt we make a move like this anyway.

[Happy Days]

The MC seem to like R Smith as a role-player, we can't carry Roarke and Hayes in the team though.
If we manage to trade for XavOH then he may not survive the cull.

XOH XOH Gossip Girl.

I wasn’t in before but I guess I am now.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

What is Preuss' contract situation?

Either way, we need a ruck - even if they're little more than a big body who can help mitigate the current disaster.

There has to be a couple of rucks not getting games at clubs, ala Pittonet last year who has been handy for Carltank.

[GVGjr]

Surely we have plenty of chaff to cut? I doubt any of R.Smith, Trengove, Gowers, Hayes, Lynch and probably Porter are here next year.


On the opening post of the thread I detailed the work that needs to be done to get the list down to 38 and then 34 if you want to draft for 3 players (the minimum) and trade for one. Unless clubs are trading for some of our players it might be a bit harder this year than any other I can recall. On top of that we probably should be looking to add a ruckman as well

[Happy Days]

Has the list size cull been confirmed? It's being spoken about as a known fact in the media but haven't heard anything official.

[bornadog]

Has the list size cull been confirmed? It's being spoken about as a known fact in the media but haven't heard anything official.

Nope, nothing official at all.

[Bulldog Revolution]

What is Preuss' contract situation?

Either way, we need a ruck - even if they're little more than a big body who can help mitigate the current disaster.

There has to be a couple of rucks not getting games at clubs, ala Pittonet last year who has been handy for Carltank.

GWS likely to be in the market too with Jacobs and Mumford maybe not going on

Preuss signed for 3 years? when he moved to Melbourne so has one more year remaining on that

Nankervis, Bellchambers, Hickey, Vardy might be available cheap

Would it be worth trying to get Rhys Stanley or Callum Sinclair (neither may be gettable)

or Archie Smith?

Convert a basketballer?

[GVGjr]

Has the list size cull been confirmed? It's being spoken about as a known fact in the media but haven't heard anything official.

I was listening to someone the other day who thought it would either get down to 40 or 38 and that wanted to know sooner than later

[bornadog]

I was listening to someone the other day who thought it would either get down to 40 or 38 and that wanted to know sooner than later

Is that including the rookie list?

[bornadog]

GWS likely to be in the market too with Jacobs and Mumford maybe not going on

Preuss signed for 3 years? when he moved to Melbourne so has one more year remaining on that

Nankervis, Bellchambers, Hickey, Vardy might be available cheap

Would it be worth trying to get Rhys Stanley or Callum Sinclair (neither may be gettable)

or Archie Smith?

Convert a basketballer?

I can only see Bevo looking for an athletic type of ruckman, not a lumbering type. Someone that can play in multiple roles if necessary. Those guys don't grow on trees, and maybe we need to see who is available in the draft, or even rookie a young ruckman. MJP has always said, we should rookie a young ruck almost every year or have one being developed constantly.

The trouble is they take so long to develop.

[Topdog]

He's progressing nicely at everything but his actual ruck craft.

Jumps too early in the centre bounces, gets outpositioned easily in boundary throw ins and lacks contested ability/know how when the ball hits the ground at a stoppage. A hardened, experienced (active) ruckman to train against each day would do wonders for that side of his game, IMO.

Look its a funny one. He only averages 16 hit outs a game which is considered poor (rightly so) but he gets 5 hitouts to advantage per game which at 31% is very good. He had 23 with 9 to advantage against the Eagles. Hickey had 28 with 7.

He is close and getting better every month - still has lapses and really poor games.

RE: the contested ability, I honestly think its just not his style. He prefers to stay on his feet and can be very clean with his hands.

I actually hate the way that 90% of our team go in for the contested ball, leaves us extremely open to fast breaks and the amount of goals we concede where a ball spills out to a free player really annoys me.

[GVGjr]

Is that including the rookie list?

Total numbers meaning we could have a reduced list by 5 to 7 players on what we started this season with.
So from 45 players this year having to drop to either 40 or 38 for next season.

All clubs need to get down even further from those numbers because they need to draft 3 players. If you sign a FA or trade a pick for a player you need to get down even lower. I can see players being redrafted by their own teams

Jason McCartney talked a bit about it today saying there will be a lot of clubs looking at players from other clubs that might get delisted.

[comrade]

Look its a funny one. He only averages 16 hit outs a game which is considered poor (rightly so) but he gets 5 hitouts to advantage per game which at 31% is very good. He had 23 with 9 to advantage against the Eagles. Hickey had 28 with 7.


There is no doubt he can more than match it versus the second/third tier type ruckmen in the competition (Essendon's Phillips for example whe he completely dominated and Hickey fits into this bucket) but I prefer not to measure him against them.

What I care about are his performances against top 8 sides. He was destroyed by Grundy, the Saints guys worked him over completely, big O gave him a bath against Brisbane etc.

[dog town]

Just picking up a ruck for the sake of it would be insanity. Any experienced addition in ruck stocks needs to fit in with the way we play and needs to actually add something apart from being a tall. Anyone we get needs to either be elite at getting first hands on the ball or give something else elite around the ground. Just plonking in an average ruck because he is tall is like playing a tall forward who can’t mark the ball, all it does is slow you down. Put me in the camp of getting creative and trying to establish a mobility advantage if we can’t get the right player.

We also need to consider the flexibility of any ruck option we get. English needs games so to me it means if we spend money, picks or a player to get quality in they must be able to play forward to have the ability to operate in tandem.

[bornadog]

Tweet from Tom Brown


List size discussion is heating up. @AFLPlayers haven’t finalised position yet. But some momentum and discussion around 40 + 2 today. It’s come up in discussion with clubs

[GVGjr]

Tweet from Tom Brown

40 would a reasonable outcome. I think most clubs would reduce their lists by 10 players

[GVGjr]

Just picking up a ruck for the sake of it would be insanity. Any experienced addition in ruck stocks needs to fit in with the way we play and needs to actually add something apart from being a tall. Anyone we get needs to either be elite at getting first hands on the ball or give something else elite around the ground. Just plonking in an average ruck because he is tall is like playing a tall forward who can’t mark the ball, all it does is slow you down. Put me in the camp of getting creative and trying to establish a mobility advantage if we can’t get the right player.

We also need to consider the flexibility of any ruck option we get. English needs games so to me it means if we spend money, picks or a player to get quality in they must be able to play forward to have the ability to operate in tandem.

I agree with the principle of what you are saying and there is the added challenge of if we would play 2 ruckman in the same team.
We do however need some depth and if Bevo doesn't believe Sweet is ready we need to find someone else.

[Topdog]

There is no doubt he can more than match it versus the second/third tier type ruckmen in the competition (Essendon's Phillips for example whe he completely dominated and Hickey fits into this bucket) but I prefer not to measure him against them.

What I care about are his performances against top 8 sides. He was destroyed by Grundy, the Saints guys worked him over completely, big O gave him a bath against Brisbane etc.

Oh most definitely but thats just of his progression. We are talking about a ruckman that is about to reach his 50th game and is 23.

He has a long way to go and I'm just enjoying watching him continue to improve.

Really looking forward to watch him vs Ceglar who also got completely worked over by the Saints duo.

[bornadog]

40 would a reasonable outcome. I think must clubs would reduce their lists by 10 players


Let's assume 40, which means we need to get to 37 if we want to recruit fresh draftees - so that is 8 gone.

My Delist/Retire would be:



Dickson, Tory
Gowers, Billy
Greene, Fergus
Khamis, Buku R
Lynch, Bradley
Porter, Callum
Suckling, Matthew
Hayes, Will or Cavarra, Ben

[Axe Man]

Let's assume 40, which means we need to get to 37 if we want to recruit fresh draftees - so that is 8 gone.

My Delist/Retire would be:



Dickson, Tory
Gowers, Billy
Greene, Fergus
Khamis, Buku R
Lynch, Bradley
Porter, Callum
Suckling, Matthew
Hayes, Will or Cavarra, Ben


Not much point retaining Trengove if he's not going to play.

[mjp]

We do however need some depth and if Bevo doesn't believe Sweet is ready we need to find someone else.

The challenge is finding a player who Bevo believes in.

I can't help but think we need to find ourselves a player who has capacity to play in another position first - their is simply no value in us recruiter another Tom Campbell "type" (Preuss, Pittonet) because he will not select them. I still think our only hope is to find Tim English#2 and roll them between forward and the ruck - at one stage I thought Young was going to be that player but something has clearly happened there...

[GVGjr]

The challenge is finding a player who Bevo believes in.

I can't help but think we need to find ourselves a player who has capacity to play in another position first - their is simply no value in us recruiter another Tom Campbell "type" (Preuss, Pittonet) because he will not select them. I still think our only hope is to find Tim English#2 and roll them between forward and the ruck - at one stage I thought Young was going to be that player but something has clearly happened there...

That is the challenge and I agree that the players you listed don't suit what the MC would like.
I think Bevo would prefer just one or two ruckman on the list supported by one or two hybrid types. Trengove should have been a good fit for us, Roughead as well but I'd guess the requirement is the players must also be mobile.
Schache has the mobility but is clearly not preferred and I doubt he will be added to the Naughton and Bruce combo up forward.

A Kreuzer type might suit for a season or two. A player like Casboult's who has the ability to take a mark up forward and ruck for 5 to 7 minutes per quarter would possibly suit but with key 2 key forwards locked I can't see us doing much more than looking for fill ins.

[bornadog]

Not much point retaining Trengove if he's not going to play.

I thought of that, but for me the list is what I would do.

[DOG GOD]

Let's assume 40, which means we need to get to 37 if we want to recruit fresh draftees - so that is 8 gone.

My Delist/Retire would be:



Dickson, Tory
Gowers, Billy
Greene, Fergus
Khamis, Buku R
Lynch, Bradley
Porter, Callum
Suckling, Matthew
Hayes, Will or Cavarra, Ben


I agree with most of your list Bornadog, but I’d add Trengove and possibly Lew Young on the list. MC won’t play them, so why have them on the list? I certainly don’t want Lew Young to go, but I’ve got a feeling he will be traded.

So, Greene and Hayes to stay
Trengove and Lew Young to go (unfortunately)

[bornadog]

I agree with most of your list Bornadog, but I’d add Trengove and possibly Lew Young on the list. MC won’t play them, so why have them on the list? I certainly don’t want Lew Young to go, but I’ve got a feeling he will be traded.

So, Greene and Hayes to stay
Trengove and Lew Young to go (unfortunately)

We would be crazy to get rid of a 21 year old 197cm mobile player. Trengove will be 30 in November and is out of contract, so that is a possibility.

[DOG GOD]

We would be crazy to get rid of a 21 year old 197cm mobile player. Trengove will be 30 in November and is out of contract, so that is a possibility.

I agree 100% but there HAS to be a reason why he hasn’t been played, in a compromised year. I literally can’t get my head around it. It would be stupidity, but there’s gotta be more to it than just scratch match form.

[bornadog]

I agree 100% but there HAS to be a reason why he hasn’t been played, in a compromised year. I literally can’t get my head around it. It would be stupidity, but there’s gotta be more to it than just scratch match form.

It certainly is a mystery.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Read that Quinten Narkle is potentially open to a trade.

I haven't seen a whole heap of him, but what I've seen I've liked. I'd enquire.

[FrediKanoute]

Wood has apparently agreed a 2 year deal. Surprised personally given age and his dodgy hammies.

[Vred]

Wood has apparently agreed a 2 year deal. Surprised personally given age and his dodgy hammies.

I'm not too happy with a 2 year deal for Wood, one? Yep, two is overkill..

[mjp]

I think Bevo would prefer just one or two ruckman on the list supported by one or two hybrid types. Trengove should have been a good fit for us, Roughead as well but I'd guess the requirement is the players must also be mobile.


...and would have I guess if he could have played forward. Isn't it funny how you recruit a player who has been an OK key defender / OK ruckman at AFL level and try to play him as a ruckman forward it is not a success.

I was thinking about this the other day with specific regard to the Easton Wood as a forward experiment...I wonder if it might have been more of a success if he had been inside 50m with even one other player who had some idea what he was doing - I swear I remember a game where he and Trengove were in the goal-square together (forward gs) and, well, the outcome was not great!!!

[Mofra]

The 40 + 2 rookies whispers seem to be getting louder, with unreliable medias types now tweeting it.

We've been linked to pressure forwards (Lonie, Bedford) and O'Halloran from GWS who is an inside mid starved of opportunity. I liked him in his draft year, probably a Ward with slightly less concrete between the ears but a little quicker.

No links to talls yet - given Bevo publically sad Sweet isn't ready for AFL and noted "he's still working on his inside craft" I suspect our plan for next year is Timmy as no 1 ruck and Bruce as the chop-out. With Trengove likely to go I think we're very, very thin in the ruck department.

[Dancin' Douggy]

I would kill for Liam Ryan. KILL!!!!

[bornadog]

I would kill for Liam Ryan. KILL!!!!

Steady on DD :D :D

What would you give up?

[Dancin' Douggy]

Hmmmm. I didn't think that far ahead. I doubt he's gettable anyway.
Steady on DD :D :D

What would you give up?

[bornadog]

Hmmmm. I didn't think that far ahead. I doubt he's gettable anyway.

I am with you, love to have him at the club alongside JUH

[azabob]

H
Jack Viney (Melb) also 26 next year with 130 games. Brings grunt to a midfield that lacks it. Our beltings in recent times have come when our midfield has meekly rolled over.

[.

Jay Clarke reporting Cats are heavily into Jack Viney.

[Grantysghost]

Jay Clarke reporting Cats are heavily into Jack Viney.

He's a star that guy. Works so hard.

[Axe Man]

He's a star that guy. Works so hard.

Clarke or Viney?

[Grantysghost]

Clarke or Viney?

Haha very good. Just to let you know the mentality of the joint, Dees friends of mine who are highish members would let him go for a high pick. When will they learn. Hes like their Selwood but they can't see it.

[The Doctor]

We should be into Viney

[Mantis]

We should be into Viney

With our centre square set-up heavily featuring Macrae, Bont, Smith & Libba with Dunkley sort of in reserve which one makes way for Viney?

Personally I think Viney gives us nothing we haven't already got and has no POD to our current midfield set-up.

Pass.

[Topdog]

I like Viney a lot but he is just more of the same for us.

[comrade]

Viney is a great fit for Geelong, slots into the Selwood role nicely. We need a good two way runner that also uses it nicely, Jack Steele type would be nice.

[Happy Days]

Viney blows. Much prefer him on other teams so we can get the full impact of his disposal working for us.

Do love they way he goes about it the big bull though. Don’t you just love the way he goes about it?

[jeemak]

Steady on DD :D :D

What would you give up?

I'd give up JUH to get him. Plus another player back.

[Mofra]

We should be into Viney
No from me, we should trade for a need. An inside mid with questionable footskills doesn't seem to be a need right now.

If Viney leaves, it would kill Melbourne. A FS heart and soul player who never gives in is what they've lacked for the past decade. Sometimes building a team is about more than just putting the best players you can find together on the paddock (see GWS).

There's a certain 'something' you just need to make it work. We had it in 2016, and Richmond's 2017 had it too when they dropped some 'better' players forward of the ball and put in honest, pressure 100% never say die type smalls. Jack Viney is Melbourne's 'something' player, and for all his flaws I think they fall in a heap without him.
He is their Libba.

[The Doctor]

player who never gives in

Isn't that what we need? We lack grunt and never say die in the midfield.

How meekly have we rolled over in big games against quality opponents starting with the elimination final last year? In our several beltings since then it has come on the back of our midfield being obliterated.

Unfortunately our depth in midfield is not as good as we think it is. There are a few blokes who don't like it when it gets a bit tough. So what are we going to do about it?

This is the angle I'm coming from. To stiffen us up a bit more. Then if we can add a quality ruckman like Nankervis we have have a very powerful midfield.

[Grantysghost]

Isn't that what we need? We lack grunt and never say die in the midfield.

How meekly have we rolled over in big games against quality opponents starting with the elimination final last year? In our several beltings since then it has come on the back of our midfield being obliterated.

Unfortunately our depth in midfield is not as good as we think it is. There are a few blokes who don't like it when it gets a bit tough.

So this is the angle I'm coming from. To stiffen us up a bit more. Then if we can add a quality ruckman like Nankervis we have have a very powerful midfield.

I've got to agree. He gives us something we don't have in spades and that's the Clay Smith mongrel I'd like to see more of. His disposal isn't bad either, in a better side he would be spoken about a lot more. I'm really surprised he is not captain of Melbourne.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I'd certainly take a player like Viney. He is something we need. But he'd probably cost too much.

[Axe Man]

I'd certainly take a player like Viney. He is something we need. But he'd probably cost too much.

Only salary, he's a free agent.

I'm in the no Viney camp, I think we have greater areas of need.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Isn't that what we need? We lack grunt and never say die in the midfield.

How meekly have we rolled over in big games against quality opponents starting with the elimination final last year? In our several beltings since then it has come on the back of our midfield being obliterated.

Unfortunately our depth in midfield is not as good as we think it is. There are a few blokes who don't like it when it gets a bit tough. So what are we going to do about it?

This is the angle I'm coming from. To stiffen us up a bit more. Then if we can add a quality ruckman like Nankervis we have have a very powerful midfield.

This is where we may need to make some tough calls. Who do you drop from our mid rotation of Macrae, Dunkley, Bont, Libba and Smith? Because I completely agree with you about needing some grunt in there, but who do you take out?

[Grantysghost]

This is where we may need to make some tough calls. Who do you drop from our mid rotation of Macrae, Dunkley, Bont, Libba and Smith? Because I completely agree with you about needing some grunt in there, but who do you take out?

I don't think Dunkley is in there now? He's a ruck/forward specialist these days :cool:

[The Doctor]

Only salary, he's a free agent.

I'm in the no Viney camp, I think we have greater areas of need.

I agree with that but why not try and address all areas of need where the opportunity exists? We are mid table and have been for 4 years for a reason. How ambitious are we prepared to be? Are we prepared to make some hard decisions on fringe types to make the space we need to get players in who address our needs? I'd love to see us also go after a creative smaller forward, a speedy winger, key defender etc. We should cast the net wide and see what we can catch in my view. Or do we put faith in the list and only make smaller modifications? This is what list management is all about.

FWIW I can't see us going for Viney or a ruckman and I think that's a pity. We have lost hard heads like Picken, Clay Smith & Matty Boyd and not really replaced that kind of grunt. Lost all 4 ruckmen from our premiership year and only replaced them with 2 young ones. So I do think these are important areas of need.

[GVGjr]

No from me, we should trade for a need. An inside mid with questionable footskills doesn't seem to be a need right now.

If Viney leaves, it would kill Melbourne. A FS heart and soul player who never gives in is what they've lacked for the past decade. Sometimes building a team is about more than just putting the best players you can find together on the paddock (see GWS).

There's a certain 'something' you just need to make it work. We had it in 2016, and Richmond's 2017 had it too when they dropped some 'better' players forward of the ball and put in honest, pressure 100% never say die type smalls. Jack Viney is Melbourne's 'something' player, and for all his flaws I think they fall in a heap without him.
He is their Libba.

What do you believe are our most pressing needs?

[bornadog]

What do you believe are our most pressing needs?

For me it is a small crumbing forward, outside pacey mid. Ruck backup would be good, but I don't think there is one out there to fit into our game style.

[Grantysghost]

For me it is a small crumbing forward, outside pacey mid. Ruck backup would be good, but I don't think there is one out there to fit into our game style.
I've changed from Tom Papley and Josh Kelly to Liam Ryan and Josh Kelly. Man that guy can play, so clean and makes great decisions. Can take a fair mark too ! I agree with your assessment. I'm also for getting as many good players into the side as you can. If it doesn't exactly fit a need, you can make it work.

[Bulldog4life]

Read that Quinten Narkle is potentially open to a trade.

I haven't seen a whole heap of him, but what I've seen I've liked. I'd enquire.

Yes he would be a good get.

[dog town]

Take Viney in a heart beat. The impact a true pro has on a list can’t be understated. Melbourne are still recovering from getting rid of all of their experience and culture years ago and had to parachute in Daniel Cross.

Not at the top of my list in terms of needs but as has been noted helps fill a void left by Boyd, Murphy, Picken and Morris.

[Mofra]

For me it is a small crumbing forward, outside pacey mid. Ruck backup would be good, but I don't think there is one out there to fit into our game style.
That's my take too - a small pressure forward, genuine wingman and ruck depth.

Ideally, a mid-sized forward as well but I'm hoping JUH plays that kind of role early in his career as he learns his craft. He has enough pace to worry teams on the deck and can take a grab if not played body on body.
Dickson is cooked, Lloyd slowing, I'm not convinced by Dale when the pressure is on, Greene showed glimpses two years ago but not sure of his future, and Schache plays like a mid-sizer and TBH I'd trade him.

[Bulldog Joe]

I've changed from Tom Papley and Josh Kelly to Liam Ryan and Josh Kelly. Man that guy can play, so clean and makes great decisions. Can take a fair mark too ! I agree with your assessment. I'm also for getting as many good players into the side as you can. If it doesn't exactly fit a need, you can make it work.

I think Liam Ryan is just about the most complete small forward in the game.

He can run, kick and mark at elite levels. I know we have no hope of trading for him, but can we clone him somehow.

[GVGjr]

Take Viney in a heart beat. The impact a true pro has on a list can’t be understated. Melbourne are still recovering from getting rid of all of their experience and culture years ago and had to parachute in Daniel Cross.

Not at the top of my list in terms of needs but as has been noted helps fill a void left by Boyd, Murphy, Picken and Morris.

Viney would be an interesting option for us, we've tended to appreciate the overall effort from players a bit more than actual form this year and Viney is a player who 'cracks in' each week.

I don't think we need him but if we are to lose Dunkley to other roles then perhaps Viney would be a good replacement option

[Mofra]

Take Viney in a heart beat. The impact a true pro has on a list can’t be understated. Melbourne are still recovering from getting rid of all of their experience and culture years ago and had to parachute in Daniel Cross.

Not at the top of my list in terms of needs but as has been noted helps fill a void left by Boyd, Murphy, Picken and Morris.
Where does Viney play?

Here's a leftfield suggestion - develop Rhylee West instead.
He's actually a tiny bit taller and heavier than Viney, has a similar appetite for the contest, has shown signs of being able to play a 'Clay Smith' role when forward and to the naked eye has elite ability by hand.

Given the salary caps are shrinking and we can;t really offer Viney a chance to play his ideal position at the minutes he'd want, I'd much rather keep the cap space and give Rhylee a chance to develop first.

[Mofra]

I think Liam Ryan is just about the most complete small forward in the game.

He can run, kick and mark at elite levels. I know we have no hope of trading for him, but can we clone him somehow.
We really need to look harder at these types of players who tend to go far later than their talent suggests they would.
The pressures of an elite environment are supposedly a limiting factor - so take more? We don't need any more rebounding HBFers yet seem set on taking one practically every year and hoping they'll develop elsewhere.

[comrade]

I think Liam Ryan is just about the most complete small forward in the game.

He can run, kick and mark at elite levels. I know we have no hope of trading for him, but can we clone him somehow.

And anyone could have had him (and Tim Kelly for that matter).

Are there any players in their early 20s showing something at WAFL/SANFL level that have previously been overlooked? If so, we should be enquiring.

[Bulldog Joe]

We really need to look harder at these types of players who tend to go far later than their talent suggests they would.
The pressures of an elite environment are supposedly a limiting factor - so take more? We don't need any more rebounding HBFers yet seem set on taking one practically every year and hoping they'll develop elsewhere.

I absolutely agree.

In 2018 we could have taken Sydney Stack instead of Will Hayes but weren't prepared to take the risk for genuine talent.

[Mofra]

I absolutely agree.

In 2018 we could have taken Sydney Stack instead of Will Hayes but weren't prepared to take the risk for genuine talent.
Liam Ryan, Tim Kelly, etc etc.

"Some fail" seems to be the counter argument - but players fail in all parts of the draft, especially late where some of these players are available.
We tend to be a little conservative with our late/rookie picks in recent times. Even the mid-season draft last year had some 'take a chance' types - the last two players picked in the first round were Marlion Pickett and John Noble who have both shown signs at AFL level.

[Ozza]

I'd give up JUH to get him. Plus another player back.

No you wouldn't.

But Ryan is a star.

[The Doctor]

Dogs Chasing Lonie

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-2020-afl-trades-trade-whispers-afl-trade-period-rumours-gossip-trade-news-tom-morris/news-story/2b82fc308f9e2863bd6f003c98334248

Tom Morris reporting (grains of salt required)

[comrade]

Dogs Chasing Lonie

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-2020-afl-trades-trade-whispers-afl-trade-period-rumours-gossip-trade-news-tom-morris/news-story/2b82fc308f9e2863bd6f003c98334248

Tom Morris reporting (grains of salt required)

Gross.

[Axe Man]

Dogs Chasing Lonie

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-2020-afl-trades-trade-whispers-afl-trade-period-rumours-gossip-trade-news-tom-morris/news-story/2b82fc308f9e2863bd6f003c98334248

Tom Morris reporting (grains of salt required)

It's a moot point now but that's the first time I recall seeing us linked to Charlie Cameron in the media. I wonder if there was a solid interest there?

[Grantysghost]

Dogs Chasing Lonie

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-2020-afl-trades-trade-whispers-afl-trade-period-rumours-gossip-trade-news-tom-morris/news-story/2b82fc308f9e2863bd6f003c98334248

Tom Morris reporting (grains of salt required)

Is Ameet friends with Billings ?

----

The 24-year-old remains close to Dogs forward Josh Bruce and has a connection with Western Bulldogs CEO Ameet Bains, who was chief operating officer and list boss when Lonie arrived at the club

[comrade]

No offense to Ameet, but he didn't exactly oversee a list brimming with talent at St Kilda. And after what we've had to put up with in terms of Bruce's output, I'd prefer we steer clear of his 'mates'.

[Grantysghost]

No offense to Ameet, but he didn't exactly oversee a list brimming with talent at St Kilda. And after what we've had to put up with in terms of Bruce's output, I'd prefer we steer clear of his 'mates'.

Lonie doesn't exactly inspire does he, age maybe only good part at 24.

[jeemak]

No you wouldn't.

But Ryan is a star.

I am fearful about the too good to be true factor!

[bulldogsthru&thru]

It's a moot point now but that's the first time I recall seeing us linked to Charlie Cameron in the media. I wonder if there was a solid interest there?

You mean our backup plan to getting Charlie Cameron is Jack Lonie? Someone give me a sick bag

[Bulldog Joe]

Dogs Chasing Lonie

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-2020-afl-trades-trade-whispers-afl-trade-period-rumours-gossip-trade-news-tom-morris/news-story/2b82fc308f9e2863bd6f003c98334248

Tom Morris reporting (grains of salt required)

If we were ever considering Lonie, I sincerely hope last nights game changed our mind. He fumbled a ground ball when in the clear against the Eagles. At his size he cannot afford to fumble.

If we are desperate someone should convince the recruiting team that Peter Wright could play small.

While that isn't true he is the player in the article that I would want. Seems the type of player to partner English as forward/ruck

[azabob]

I am fearful about the too good to be true factor!

Yep, I hear ya... I keep thinking Ayce Cordy.

[Mofra]

Based on current trends, if we traded in Lonie he'd win our goal-kicking in 2021 then revert a fringe player in 2022.
Gowers, Lloyd...

[azabob]

Based on current trends, if we traded in Lonie he'd win our goal-kicking in 2021 then revert a fringe player in 2022.
Gowers, Lloyd...

Gosh I hope Bruce keeps up this trend in 2020.

[Ozza]

I am fearful about the too good to be true factor!

No need to fear.

[Sedat]

I can't stand Jack Lonie - have an irrational hatred of his smug head and his penchant for playing for frees all the time under the slightest of opposition pressure. And somehow I don't think he will raise his game if he ever plays in finals.

[Dancin' Douggy]

EXACTLY!!! They are out there........
And anyone could have had him (and Tim Kelly for that matter).

Are there any players in their early 20s showing something at WAFL/SANFL level that have previously been overlooked? If so, we should be enquiring.

[jeemak]

I can't stand Jack Lonie - have an irrational hatred of his smug head and his penchant for playing for frees all the time under the slightest of opposition pressure. And somehow I don't think he will raise his game if he ever plays in finals.

Ha, he's actually a nice guy. Played golf with him a couple of times, and he seems friendly enough.

[Sedat]

Ha, he's actually a nice guy. Played golf with him a couple of times, and he seems friendly enough.
I did say it was irrational ;)

[Vred]

I offer Todd Goldstein a 2 year contract, let him play out his final years in a team that can make finals, and once his contract is up English should be a fully fledged ruck. Having a mature ruck to teach English would be the added benefit.

...and no Josh Dunkley in the ruck anymore.

[comrade]

I offer Todd Goldstein a 2 year contract, let him play out his final years in a team that can make finals, and once his contract is up English should be a fully fledged ruck. Having a mature ruck to teach English would be the added benefit.

...and no Josh Dunkley in the ruck anymore.

Another one jumping on the Goldstein train. Welcome aboard.

[Vred]

Another one jumping on the Goldstein train. Welcome aboard.

just got done watching the Roos Freo game and honestly he was the standout for the Roos, probably their best on ground. Having him ruck for our midfield would be insanely good.

[SquirrelGrip]

just got done watching the Roos Freo game and honestly he was the standout for the Roos, probably their best on ground. Having him ruck for our midfield would be insanely good.

Agreed, but what would we offer Norf?

[hujsh]

Agreed, but what would we offer Norf?
What's his contract situation? He just resigned right?

Surely no more than a 3rd rounder

[Vred]

What's his contract situation? He just resigned right?

Surely no more than a 3rd rounder

His halfway through a 3 year contract.

getting him would only happen if the Roos went the hard rebuild route, something that’s talked about but who knows what they’re doing with that.

[AshMac]

His halfway through a 3 year contract.

getting him would only happen if the Roos went the hard rebuild route, something that’s talked about but who knows what they’re doing with that.

That’s the only way I see too - full rebuild. The issue I think might be his salary, unless North are prepared to pay part of it to free up space I don’t see us parting with anything significant for him. I remember seeing he was around the $800k mark - not sure if that’s his current situation.

[GVGjr]

I offer Todd Goldstein a 2 year contract, let him play out his final years in a team that can make finals, and once his contract is up English should be a fully fledged ruck. Having a mature ruck to teach English would be the added benefit.

...and no Josh Dunkley in the ruck anymore.

While I think it's a good suggestion, if we were to land someone as good as Goldstein I doubt we we would play English as much.
We need to find English some support not moving him to the 2nd banana role

[Happy Days]

While I think it's a good suggestion, if we were to land someone as good as Goldstein I doubt we we would play English as much.
We need to find English some support not moving him to the 2nd banana role

Over the last few years West Coast, Port and now St Kilda have proven a two ruck system can work if they can do something other than ruck. I get what you’re saying about English but he’s so quality that he can be a real asset no matter where we put him, and you can never have too many tall guys who can use the ball. If we can get a good player in to support rather than a ruck for rucks sake it could be a big feature for us.

Ladhams is out of contract, is not the number one ruck and very recently pissed off his club, in a market that takes stuff like that more personally than any other. Let’s ask the question.

[GVGjr]

Over the last few years West Coast, Port and now St Kilda have proven a two ruck system can work if they can do something other than ruck. I get what you’re saying about English but he’s so quality that he can be a real asset no matter where we put him, and you can never have too many tall guys who can use the ball. If we can get a good player in to support rather than a ruck for rucks sake it could be a big feature for us.

Ladhams is out of contract, is not the number one ruck and very recently pissed off his club, in a market that takes stuff like that more personally than any other. Let’s ask the question.

When we recruited Bruce we said we could play 3 tall forwards which I don't think we have done much of except a bit when Dunks is rucking. So given I don't think we rate the ruck position that highly I can't see us playing someone like Goldy, who is a pure 100 minute a game type ruckman, and then English in the forward pocket rucking for 5 minutes a quarter. I think this would set Tim back not help him

I think we are very likely to go into next year with a very similar set-up despite the varying results this year.

I'd love to have someone like a Marshall or Ladhams to support English but I doubt we would play both in many games

I think we will continue to use Bruce, Naughton, Dunks and Macrae etc going forward

[Danjul]

When we recruited Bruce we said we could play 3 tall forwards which I don't think we have done much of except a bit when Dunks is rucking. So given I don't think we rate the ruck position that highly I can't see us playing someone like Goldy, who is a pure 100 minute a game type ruckman, and then English in the forward pocket rucking for 5 minutes a quarter. I think this would set Tim back not help him

I think we are very likely to go into next year with a very similar set-up despite the varying results this year.

I'd love to have someone like a Marshall or Ladhams to support English but I doubt we would play both in many games

I think we will continue to use Bruce, Naughton, Dunks and Macrae etc going forward

What? No Cordy?

[Happy Days]

When we recruited Bruce we said we could play 3 tall forwards which I don't think we have done much of except a bit when Dunks is rucking. So given I don't think we rate the ruck position that highly I can't see us playing someone like Goldy, who is a pure 100 minute a game type ruckman, and then English in the forward pocket rucking for 5 minutes a quarter. I think this would set Tim back not help him

I think we are very likely to go into next year with a very similar set-up despite the varying results this year.

I'd love to have someone like a Marshall or Ladhams to support English but I doubt we would play both in many games

I think we will continue to use Bruce, Naughton, Dunks and Macrae etc going forward

My contention would be to get a guy like Ladhams in and not play Bruce, but you're absolutely right about what we will do.

[Dancin' Douggy]

I can't help but agree with this.

[soupman]

Ladhams is a good call. Competent forward, a mobile ruck who gets the ball and isnt a liability. Whats not to like? His haircut i guess.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Agree on Ladhams, watched him closely prior to his suspension and he looks a hell of a player for the future.

[Mofra]

His halfway through a 3 year contract.

getting him would only happen if the Roos went the hard rebuild route, something that’s talked about but who knows what they’re doing with that.
He's been listed as one of their four "untouchables"

[Mofra]

Stephenson reported as "gettable"

A mid-sized forward with real pace? He should suddenly become our no 1 target. Offers genuine class forward of the ball that we've been chasing each year.

[GVGjr]

Stephenson reported as "gettable"

A mid-sized forward with real pace? He should suddenly become our no 1 target. Offers genuine class forward of the ball that we've been chasing each year.

I wonder why he would gettable?

[azabob]

I wonder why he would gettable?

That is the million dollar question - especially since Collingwood have also struggled to kick a wining score of late.

[bornadog]

Stephenson reported as "gettable"

A mid-sized forward with real pace? He should suddenly become our no 1 target. Offers genuine class forward of the ball that we've been chasing each year.

I think he is a gun


I wonder why he would gettable?

Off field antics - maybe???

[Grantysghost]

I wonder why he would gettable?

Is there off field issues?

[Mofra]

I wonder why he would gettable?
Salary cap at a guess - Grundy, Moore, de Goey all million dollar players or close to it.
Then there's Pendles, Adams, Sidebottom, Treloar.

Reported weeks ago that Mihocek was potentially heading west too.

[josie]

Salary cap at a guess - Grundy, Moore, de Goey all million dollar players or close to it.
Then there's Pendles, Adams, Sidebottom, Treloar.

Reported weeks ago that Mihocek was potentially heading west too.

West as in Perth? Is he from WA? I’d love to have Mihocek in RWB-excellent mark, covers ground well, tough, good height, reasonable goal kicker etc. one of my fave other team players.

[GVGjr]

I think he is a gun

Off field antics - maybe???


Is there off field issues?

I know this is just a bit of speculation but if so over the years Collingwood have managed these sort of indiscretions better than most
Do we have an appetite to take on someone who 'might' be difficult?

[GVGjr]

Salary cap at a guess - Grundy, Moore, de Goey all million dollar players or close to it.
Then there's Pendles, Adams, Sidebottom, Treloar.

Reported weeks ago that Mihocek was potentially heading west too.

West as in the Dogs or WA?

Salary cap is a very different proposition

What would we need to give up to be a player in recruiting him?

[dog town]

I know this is just a bit of speculation but if so over the years Collingwood have managed these sort of indiscretions better than most
Do we have an appetite to take on someone who 'might' be difficult? Would be a good fit in terms of his on field attributes. I don’t think Bevo would want him based on some of the things I’m hearing but who knows.

He has some on field issues at the moment that need just as much work. His work without the footy and general lack of intensity has been glaring so far this year.

[Happy Days]

The Fraser Anning superfan who bets on his own games? No thanks.

[soupman]

Not keen on Stephenson. Think it's a bit hypocritical to get rid of Stringer for off field attitude then bring in another guy with similiar issues (not saying Jaidyn is as bad but from what we know he certainly puts himself in dumb situations).

Mihocek I like though and could even be a decent chop out option in the ruck, but would prefer Ladhams.

[Axe Man]

Mihocek is originally from Tassie, haven't heard any "West" rumours. I think he could thrive in our forward line with Bruce and Naughton taking the opposition attention.


Collingwood at impasse with forward Brody Mihocek over new deal (https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/more-news/moneyball-trade-special-carlisles-future-shaky-why-ben-brown-is-on-the-outer-will-crows-miss-crouch-firstround-compo/news-story/3f30142df6ce327be3506f22d97c5421)

Collingwood’s salary cap squeeze could force out Brody Mihocek, as rivals express their interest after a below-par contract offer to the mature-age forward.

Mihocek has been one of the club’s best recruiting stories in recent years after being plucked from the VFL as a defender to turn into a reliable, selfless forward.

The 27-year-old has kicked 82 goals in his 54 matches with the Pies, including 29.18 in the 2018 season and 36.26 last season.

This year despite being badly knocked out in a clash against Melbourne he has kicked 17 goals from 14 games in a team struggling to get the ball inside 50 with real fluency.

While he has shown no signs of leaving Collingwood, the offer so far reflects an incredibly tight salary cap.

Mihocek is in the unusual position of having to make every post a winner with the next contract given it could be his only chance to secure his financial future.

The former Werribee and Port Melbourne footballer worked in a logistics job at a timber business before being taken with the 22nd pick of 2018 rookie draft.

His manager Anthony McConville confirmed on Thursday negotiations were underway but still far from completed.

“It has been slow going so we are still working with Collingwood and it might take a little time. Hopefully we will be able to get there, and if not we will see.”

Mihocek has effectively had to play as Collingwood’s key forward this year given a revolving door of partners including Mason Cox, Darcy Cameron and Will Kelly, with Darcy Moore thrown forward at times.

Collingwood will likely sign Moore on a two-year contract with Jordan de Goey keen to resign with the club as his two-year $1.5 million contract expires.

Josh Daicos also needs to re-sign after his breakout season, while the Pies will eventually come to a financial settlement with retired midfielder Dayne Beams.

He played nine games on a four-year Collingwood contract worth $2 million, with Mason Cox having ticked off a games clause on a contract that will next year pay him over $500,000.

I know it's not going to happen but one for the gorilla forwards?


CARLISLE’S SAINTS FUTURE UNCERTAIN

Star Saint Jake Carlisle faces an uncertain future at Moorabbin.

Carlisle is out of contract and has not received an offer from St Kilda as the club attempts to lock-in a drought-breaking finals spot.

Carlisle, 28, signed a bumper deal to leave Essendon for the Saints but he has been left out of the team for the past four matches.

It meant Saints defender Nick Coffield was up against it trying to cover a bigger and stronger Jack Darling in the narrow loss to West Coast on Thursday night.

Coffield has played as the third tall with Carlisle sidelined and while he is a star on the rise it could have cost St Kilda the game.

Hawthorn had an interest in Carlisle when he left the Bombers but it is unclear whether Alastair Clarkson is still keen on the versatile tall.

Manager Anthony McConville said on Friday of his client: “I can’t speak on their behalf other than that they are not prepared to do anything with his contract at this point in time.”

[GVGjr]

Carlisle would be tempting now. With our connections with the Saints we would probably know better than most how focussed Carlisle is

[bornadog]

Mihocek I like though and could even be a decent chop out option in the ruck, but would prefer Ladhams.

He is 2 cm taller than Dunkley :D

[Axe Man]

Mihocek I like though and could even be a decent chop out option in the ruck, but would prefer Ladhams.

Are you thinking of the right player? He's 192cm and not even big enough to play key position really.

[Bulldog Joe]

West as in Perth? Is he from WA? I’d love to have Mihocek in RWB-excellent mark, covers ground well, tough, good height, reasonable goal kicker etc. one of my fave other team players.

Brodie is a Tassie boy and his west connections are absolutely Footscray. His dad played a few games at Essendon, before coming to Tassie.

Brodie actually lives in Footscray area.

[Bulldog Joe]

Are you thinking of the right player? He's 192cm and not even big enough to play key position really.

But he does play key position.

[Axe Man]

But he does play key position.

Yes but it's not ideal, in the same way Cordy playing on 200cm forwards isn't ideal, but he still does it at times. He's a third tall forward for mine, he's had to play KPF this year due to circumstance.

[Grantysghost]

No to Mihocek for me he's an average player.

[soupman]

Are you thinking of the right player? He's 192cm and not even big enough to play key position really.

I am thinking of the right player but it turns out he is much shorter than i thought. Maybe it's his upright running style but i would have put him at the 197cm mark.

In that case if he can't be a chop out in the ruck then I'm not so keen.

[Axe Man]

No to Mihocek for me he's an average player.

I reckon he would be our second best forward, only behind Naughton. He's not a superstar but average is underselling him for mine.

[Mofra]

I reckon he would be our second best forward, only behind Naughton. He's not a superstar but average is underselling him for mine.
Ditto - but he's not an area of need for us, so not the type of player I'd target at trade time.

[EasternWest]

I reckon he would be our second best forward, only behind Naughton. He's not a superstar but average is underselling him for mine.

He's a fine player. Honest and reliable. I would take him, but I think he's not our biggest need.

[josie]

Agree with Eastern West. Mentioned this somewhere else-Mihocek reminds me of a forward version of Morris. Tenacious, strong, reliable. I reckon he could play elsewhere other than forward line. Also agree he is probably not what we need however I know who I’d rather play out of Lloyd, Dale and him in forward line.

I do not think I we would regret him if he did come to us. And right age bracket too.

[Axe Man]

Ladhams is out of contract, is not the number one ruck and very recently pissed off his club, in a market that takes stuff like that more personally than any other. Let’s ask the question.

I like the look of Ladhams but he is contracted until 2022.

[bornadog]

I really like Stephenson as a player but I am not sure about any off field stuff.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Was mentioned off the cuff by Crawford that teams might enquire again about Wingard given hawthorns potential rebuild. Would we have interest again? If so, would him turning us down come into consideration?

[Happy Days]

I like the look of Ladhams but he is contracted until 2022.

Well never mind then. What a bummer.

[The Pie Man]

Was mentioned off the cuff by Crawford that teams might enquire again about Wingard given hawthorns potential rebuild. Would we have interest again? If so, would him turning us down come into consideration?

I know we like to remind ourselves we scored the mullet with the pick Port wanted, but Wingard is still a pretty handy player who'd be best 22 with us.

Doubt Hawthorn will sell, and we might be burnt given our social media team went as far as posting we'd like to trade for him (which still blows my mind given what transpired) but if available at the right price....