3 things you have learned - RD 16 v West Coast 2020

[GVGjr]

You know the drill, list 3 things you have learned from our round 16 clash against the Eagles

If you can provide some specific details it would be appreciated

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

1. Bevo adjusts the ruck set up when he thinks it benefits our play. Good to see English play a good game in ruck and around the ground

2. We should've won by 30 points, we still can't kick a goal to save our lives!

3. Toby has to now set tonight as the barometer... 20 possies, 9 tackles.

[HOSE B ROMERO]

1. Rourke can kick pressure goals
2. Bont can kick pressure captains goals
3. Tiny can take pressure marks

& 4. Ryan Gardner doesn't touch that shot at goal and we lose the game

[westbulldog]

1. McLean was very good today, Gaff had no influence.
2. Gardner and the entire defence did well today, credit where it is due.
3. We still need to invest in a specialist goalkicking coach (echo echo ++)

[1eyedog]

1. This club is going to drive me to an early grave no doubt about it.

2. We never ever gave up despite ther circus of our own making occurring around us.

1. Jack Darling still remembers Dunks' footsteps. He constantly chokes against us the poor bugger.

[bornadog]

1. we are good enough to make the finals
2. Naughton still has alot to learn about being a FF.
3. The Bont - Captains goal wins us the game.

[AshMac]

1. A real confidence lift for a couple of key players - Bont and English outstanding and eventual match winners

2. I don’t like to comment on umpiring after games, and I am bias as hell, but I thought we got nothing tonight. That free kick against English at the end was absolutely disgraceful

3. He has mentioned it, but it is time for Bevo to become a broken record about the infringements on Naughton. Make some noise, get others talking about it, footage analysed over the weeks, umpires aware of it. It happens every week and he gets nothing. NOTHING! Free kicks to WC for chopping the arms were inexcusable tonight

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

1. A real confidence lift for a couple of key players - Bont and English outstanding and eventual match winners

2. I don’t like to comment on umpiring after games, and I am bias as hell, but I thought we got nothing tonight. That free kick against English at the end was absolutely disgraceful

3. He has mentioned it, but it is time for Bevo to become a broken record about the infringements on Naughton. Make some noise, get others talking about it, footage analysed over the weeks, umpires aware of it. It happens every week and he gets nothing. NOTHING! Free kicks to WC for chopping the arms were inexcusable tonight


And yet the umps tonight had no problem paying free's against Gardner English and at least a couple more for barely sneezing on a West Coast player. Our forwards have to be grievously assaulted to even get the umps to put a whistle to their gob.

[josie]

1 Bevo can put a tag on a player (Maclean on Gaff) and it worked mighty well (do that last week in last qtr against Danger and curb him 30% and maybe we would have won last week too)

2 Bont - captains last quarter. Growing into role - now sign a long term deal you superstar!!

3 All you Maclean doubters who want to put him up for trade - bah humbug you. He is tough, crafty and can stick a tackle. Hope he stays. Definitely best 22.

Agree re comments on WC hanging off Naughts & woeful umpiring.

[DOG GOD]

1. Could Toby be that defensive mid we so desire ?
2. We will never be a consistent top 4 team until we learn how to kick straight. It’s diabolical.
3. I still don’t believe Naughton is a fwd

[AshMac]

And yet the umps tonight had no problem paying free's against Gardner English and at least a couple more for barely sneezing on a West Coast player. Our forwards have to be grievously assaulted to even get the umps to put a whistle to their gob.

It was honestly disgraceful. Was in all areas and across the whole game. I don’t care how they interpret rules on the day - but I can’t stand inconsistency.

We were pinged for holding the ball, they weren’t. Naughton was absolutely mauled in first half, Wally directly in front of goal in the last qtr nothing - I counted 3 “chopping the arms” to WC tonight.

The free kick against English would have had the crowd booing for the final 90 seconds of the game in Melbourne.

[Vred]

1. McLean our new tagger? Say yes
2. Forward line structure sucks, goal kicking sucks, please get us a new forward/kicking coach
3. Echoing this ''He has mentioned it, but it is time for Bevo to become a broken record about the infringements on Naughton. Make some noise, get others talking about it, footage analysed over the weeks, umpires aware of it. It happens every week and he gets nothing. NOTHING! Free kicks to WC for chopping the arms were inexcusable tonight''

[The Doctor]

3. Toby has to now set tonight as the barometer... 20 possies, 9 tackles.

Yep best game he has played for some time. He needs to do that week in week out.

[comrade]

Yep best game he has played for some time. He needs to do that week in week out.

I wonder if we gave him a defined role/job to do on Gaff as a once off, or have we been asking him to lock down on an opponent throughout the season and he hasn’t been able to?

[azabob]

I wonder if we gave him a defined role/job to do on Gaff as a once off, or have we been asking him to lock down on an opponent throughout the season and he hasn’t been able to?

Good question, McLean did it very early in the season against the Giants & Swans (I think) with success but since then it doesn't appear we have used him in that role.

[Scorlibo]

1. Timmy is a barometer for us. When he's taking big marks around the ground we look like a contender.
2. Liam Ryan is a genuine star. We couldn't lay a hand on him.
3. As a team we don't lack grit. The task couldn't have been made any more difficult with poor goalkicking, giving them a start and about 8 crucial umpiring calls going against us, but the guys fought on through and came away with a huge win.

[comrade]

2. Liam Ryan is a genuine star. We couldn't lay a hand on him.


Would be the perfect fit for us in a bunch of different ways. Sigh.

[CarnTheScray]

1. McLean was excellent. Nullified Gaff and was damaging.
2. We need to work on our goalkicking. Should have been a 5 goal win.
3. Darling remains a choke specialist. PTSD from 2016.
978

[Grantysghost]

1. We need to clone Caleb. His ball use mein gott. We need it forward..but..back...so. I think theres a clear recruitment strategy. Dolly the sheep.

2. Bruce is coming good. Hard work is the first step the rest will come, and I prefer him pinch hitting in the ruck to Dunkley who is a forward?

3. We've had a very very tough stretch of games. Top 5 in the last 6 games? Something like that and been in all of them except Tigers. We aren't that far away. We get Dolly in the off season, Hurley and Bevo away from explaining the larger perpendicular theory to Hayes and we have a good team for years.

[Bulldog4life]

1. Gardner's improving each match. Even the stretch to touch the kick from Darling after the siren was commendable.

2. Toby has been successful multiple times this year as a tagger. Let it continue.

3. Reckon Timmy was carrying an injury the last 2 weeks or so. Back to his impressive form.

[GVGjr]

1. Gardner's improving each match. Even the stretch to touch the kick from Darling after the siren was commendable.

2. Toby has been successful multiple times this year as a tagger. Let it continue.

3. Reckon Timmy was carrying an injury the last 2 weeks or so. Back to his impressive form.

I echo the thoughts re Gardner, the last 3 weeks there has been steady improvement and we need to stay the course with him now. He should be feeling more settled and confident.

[Bulldog4life]

I echo the thoughts re Gardner, the last 3 weeks there has been steady improvement and we need to stay the course with him now. He should be feeling more settled and confident.

He is more confident with his kicking and I have been impressed with his one per centers and tackling. Good chance he will be retained next year and kudos to the MC for seeing something that few on WOOF saw....if any.

[AshMac]

He is more confident with his kicking and I have been impressed with his one per centers and tackling. Good chance he will be retained next year and kudos to the MC for seeing something that few on WOOF saw....if any.

Can see some similarities between Gardner and Hargrave. Throat in your mouth every time he goes near it for now, but slowly getting better and building consistency. Would love him to turn into a Highly dependable Defender.

Too early to say for sure

[Ozza]

Not sure they are three things I learned....but some observations.

1. Hunter really put his work boots on in the last quarter. In there in the clinches helping out Libba and Macrae in some key moments.

2. Toby covered some serious ground going with Gaff last night. I hope we continue to have him go with the outside runners in this type of role - it could help him get his game to the next level.

3. To fall in like that against a West Coast side missing 4 guns....we'd need to improve to be really competitive in a final.

[comrade]

3. To fall in like that against a West Coast side missing 4 guns....we'd need to improve to be really competitive in a final.

Plus they were one down for most of the match, and were coming off a 4 day break vs our 9 days. Everything fell our way and we just scraped over the line.

Glad for the win but our problems persist.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Plus they were one down for most of the match, and were coming off a 4 day break vs our 9 days. Everything fell our way and we just scraped over the line.

Glad for the win but our problems persist.

Yeah this is still our issue. We bust our guts to just scrape over the line. It's just not a sustainable game style in the long run. I'm thrilled we won and are in contention to play finals but I still see some pretty big flaws that need addressing. We just never seem to have any run or fluid ball movement. Yet it happens the other way fairly often.

[bornadog]

We just never seem to have any run or fluid ball movement. Yet it happens the other way fairly often. ???

We are number one for moving the ball from the back 50 to the forward 50

[mjp]

1. McLean our new tagger? Say yes


Can everyone who made fun of me for suggesting this 12-months ago please go back and find the thread and issue a formal apology.

(Joking of course).

Having a CLEAR role - even one for which a player might not initially seem suited - really helps most find their feet.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Can everyone who made fun of me for suggesting this 12-months ago please go back and find the thread and issue a formal apology.

(Joking of course).

Having a CLEAR role - even one for which a player might not initially seem suited - really helps most find their feet.

Not sure if I was one of them but it is a great role for him, because he has good hands, is good in close, tackles and works without it - it gives him a clear focus each week - I have always thought Toby had enough talent to be a very good senior player so I hope this is the plan for him.

Role clarity is also the hallmark of good coaching - simplify the game for people - let them thrive

[bulldogsthru&thru]

???

We are number one for moving the ball from the back 50 to the forward 50

I’m not someone who looks at stats as a definitive determination. Last night is a good example of why.

What constitutes a movement from back 50 to f50? Because if it were truely useful our f50 conversions wouldn’t be so horrific

[comrade]

I’m not someone who looks at stats as a definitive determination. Last night is a good example of why.

What constitutes a movement from back 50 to f50? Because if it were truely useful our f50 conversions wouldn’t be so horrific

Yeah, what's the point of being number 1 for rebound 50s when our forward entries and structure is almost terminally bad?

[AshMac]

Having a CLEAR role - even one for which a player might not initially seem suited - really helps most find their feet.

This is exactly the same in corporate leadership and coaching

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Yeah, what's the point of being number 1 for rebound 50s when our forward entries and structure is almost terminally bad?

Yeah but you don't throw the good out with the bad.
We transitioned amazingly well from D50 all night. That's no mean feat to be able to do it so well against a good opposition. We sliced them up.
Its the final 3rd of the field that needs the focus. Either the final kick into the forward line, kicking bloody straight when we get the scoring shot, and it also would help if our forwards moved to the right spots and didn't get in each others way.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I’m not someone who looks at stats as a definitive determination. Last night is a good example of why.

What constitutes a movement from back 50 to f50? Because if it were truely useful our f50 conversions wouldn’t be so horrific

Wallis, Naughton, and Lloyd had multiple misses that should've been converted. Dunks missed a snap he should've kicked, Bont missed one that was a decent chance, and Bruce kicked an OOB on the full, and also fluffed a chest mark, and a dead easy snap.
That's about 9 misses that had nothing to do with poor delivery. The front half well and truly wasted our overwhelming number of D50 to inside 50 transitions that were all but delivered on a plate for them to finish.

[Bulldog Joe]

Wallis, Naughton, and Lloyd had multiple misses that should've been converted. Dunks missed a snap he should've kicked, Bont missed one that was a decent chance, and Bruce kicked an OOB on the full, and also fluffed a chest mark, and a dead easy snap.
That's about 9 misses that had nothing to do with poor delivery. The front half well and truly wasted our overwhelming number of D50 to inside 50 transitions that were all but delivered on a plate for them to finish.

Yes to this.

We had so many chances that we failed to capitalise on.

I would add the dropped mark by Tim English about 25 out in the 3rd as well.

We should really have won this game by a significant margin.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Wallis, Naughton, and Lloyd had multiple misses that should've been converted. Dunks missed a snap he should've kicked, Bont missed one that was a decent chance, and Bruce kicked an OOB on the full, and also fluffed a chest mark, and a dead easy snap.
That's about 9 misses that had nothing to do with poor delivery. The front half well and truly wasted our overwhelming number of D50 to inside 50 transitions that were all but delivered on a plate for them to finish.

Last night may have been different. I only saw the last quarter so I can't comment. But on the whole of the season (and previous seasons) we're not a team where fluid ball use would be used to describe us. Sure when things are going well, but then that applies to all teams. It seems it takes a lot of effort on our part to get the ball into a scoring positions, and even then, it's not a high % scoring chance. It may also be that opposition teams allow us a bit of meters gained, knowing if they outnumber us in our F50 they'll have an easy rebound. I'd just think that with fluid ball movement we'd have a lot more high % scoring chances. Last night we might have but typically we don't. Watching the 4th quarter last night the eagles got much better looks from far fewer opportunities.

[comrade]

Yeah but you don't throw the good out with the bad.
We transitioned amazingly well from D50 all night. That's no mean feat to be able to do it so well against a good opposition. We sliced them up.
Its the final 3rd of the field that needs the focus. Either the final kick into the forward line, kicking bloody straight when we get the scoring shot, and it also would help if our forwards moved to the right spots and didn't get in each others way.

I may be wrong, but might it be that opposition teams don't mind us chaining possessions together from half back, as we predictably turn it over going inside 50 more often than not and gives them a big opportunity to torch us the other way?

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I may be wrong, but might it be that opposition teams don't mind us chaining possessions together from half back, as we predictably turn it over going inside 50 more often than not and gives them a big opportunity to torch us the other way?

Maybe historically, but I am talking about last night. We got it right. Our forwards just made meals of all of the good work. Furthermore, they kicked 4.1 in the 1st quarter, and I think I heard that all 4 were from turnovers.
We tightened up after that, and didn't give them too many scores from turnovers thereafter. I think Cordy's dodgy handball in the last was the next I can remember.
So we were still dominating ball movement from D50 to inside F50 for the 2nd and 3rd Qtr, but just fluffed our opportunities. However tellingly we turned off the costly turnover scoring opportunities for them. After Qtr time there was hardly any opportunities for them to torch us the other way.

[Doc26]

1. Gardner is growing into his role.
2. Unlike some Clubs, we still have focus and fire in the belly.
3. McGovern's late thumb injury saved us from a whole bunch of negativity and lost opportunity with him consciously protecting his thumb by bending it down just prior to the point of impact.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kimt0ay4ugu80dz/McGovern.JPG?raw=1

[Happy Days]

Yes to this.

We had so many chances that we failed to capitalise on.

I would add the dropped mark by Tim English about 25 out in the 3rd as well.

We should really have won this game by a significant margin.

Agree with that. Our finishing was so bad but the rest of our game was so tight, especially our midfield which seemed locked in to running both ways which cannot always be said. Aside from two really bad errors from Cordy in the first quarter the back six held up well too. More positives than negatives.

[bornadog]

I’m not someone who looks at stats as a definitive determination. Last night is a good example of why.

What constitutes a movement from back 50 to f50? Because if it were truely useful our f50 conversions wouldn’t be so horrific

You said we don't move the ball fluently. You can't move the ball not fluently to be number one for transition?


Yeah, what's the point of being number 1 for rebound 50s when our forward entries and structure is almost terminally bad?

Not terminally bad at all, see below. Missing shots at goal is different to terminally bad structure. Also we are top 5 for marks inside 50. Just need to convert our opportunities.


Wallis, Naughton, and Lloyd had multiple misses that should've been converted. Dunks missed a snap he should've kicked, Bont missed one that was a decent chance, and Bruce kicked an OOB on the full, and also fluffed a chest mark, and a dead easy snap.
That's about 9 misses that had nothing to do with poor delivery. The front half well and truly wasted our overwhelming number of D50 to inside 50 transitions that were all but delivered on a plate for them to finish.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

You said we don't move the ball fluently. You can't move the ball not fluently to be number one for transition?


Not terminally bad at all, see below. Missing shots at goal is different to terminally bad structure. Also we are top 5 for marks inside 50. Just need to convert our opportunities.

Again it depends what constitutes defensive 50 to f50. Is that measured just so long as the opposition doesn’t touch the ball? Is it quick movement?

[bornadog]

Again it depends what constitutes defensive 50 to f50. Is that measured just so long as the opposition doesn’t touch the ball? Is it quick movement?

It's fluent ;)

[whythelongface]

1. We have the ability to fight back from a poor start

2. We are a work in progress. We will continue to have erratic performances in the short term but I am confident we can build into a very strong team over the next 12 to 24 months. It takes a number of years to build a dynasty. We have the core now we just need to add some final pieces.

3. The coaching team backing players in. It was great to see players such as McLean and Gardner play key roles on very good players. Well done. It is now up to these players to be more consistent and follow up on these performances.

[ratsmac]

1. Naughton needs to drop the stare downs after big marks. Well unless he's 10 metres out dead in front. Just go back and kick the goal, they already know who you are mate.

2. When Timmy has his confidence up he is a different player. Those 2 big marks in the last where proper character building stuff. If he can get his ruck work up to standard he will tear games apart for many years.

3. Controlling a quality opposition the way we did for basically 3 quarters shows us that we close and more than capable. They had a few stars missing which helped (a lot) but we did what was expected and required with those players missing. Sort out our f50 problems is the next phase.

[FrediKanoute]

Yeah but you don't throw the good out with the bad.
We transitioned amazingly well from D50 all night. That's no mean feat to be able to do it so well against a good opposition. We sliced them up.
Its the final 3rd of the field that needs the focus. Either the final kick into the forward line, kicking bloody straight when we get the scoring shot, and it also would help if our forwards moved to the right spots and didn't get in each others way.

I think a lot of this final third problem is the fact its been so unsettled this year. Leading patterns and the roles for players are still developing. Injury, form, C-19 has really hurt us. We have had almost not continuity. The 2 constants have been Wallis - a revelation and Bruce - arguably disappointing. Dale, Lloyd, Gowers, West, Dicko, Weightman, Cavarra, Schache have all rotate through without any real impact or any real ability to nail down a spot.

We still aren't that settled, but Naughts coming back has helped.

[FrediKanoute]

1. We can change our gamestyle mid-game and win;
2. Gardner is developing and should only get better;
3. Bruce is trying. he knows he's down on form; he knows he's not where he should be, but he is still trying

[bornadog]

1. We can change our gamestyle mid-game and win;
2. Gardiner is developing and should only get better;
3. Bruce is trying. he knows he's down on form; he knows he's not where he should be, but he is still trying

Gardner ;)

[merantau]

Last night may have been different. I only saw the last quarter so I can't comment. But on the whole of the season (and previous seasons) we're not a team where fluid ball use would be used to describe us. Sure when things are going well, but then that applies to all teams. It seems it takes a lot of effort on our part to get the ball into a scoring positions, and even then, it's not a high % scoring chance. It may also be that opposition teams allow us a bit of meters gained, knowing if they outnumber us in our F50 they'll have an easy rebound. I'd just think that with fluid ball movement we'd have a lot more high % scoring chances. Last night we might have but typically we don't. Watching the 4th quarter last night the eagles got much better looks from far fewer opportunities.

I agree with what you say but unfortunately you can't manufacture fluid ball movement overnight if you haven't got the players who can kick long, low, hard and accurately. Bont, Williams, Suckling JJ (when he's not turning it over) Keath are very good kicks and Daniel is the best user by hand or foot going around.