Who Are The Best Second Tier Players In The Competition?

[jeemak]

We all know who the best players in the competition are, this thread is about identifying the players who do great work within that all important second rung of a starting 22.

You learned folk here on WOOF are pretty switched on, who are the players within the competition that really hold a team together and support the stars within their clubs?

What do they do that makes them integral to their team's success, what holds them back from being truly elite within the four walls of their clubs?

[jazzadogs]

Libba ��

[jeemak]

Libba ��

Case closed!

I actually think it's a pretty hard question because there's a lot of players who many regard as top notch, that others and the clubs wouldn't.

[azabob]

Case closed!

I actually think it's a pretty hard question because there's a lot of players who many regard as top notch, that others and the clubs wouldn't.

Way to kill your own thread!!

[bornadog]

We all expect each player to get big numbers every week, but the foot soldiers who are reliable week in week out are the guys you need in the trenches to be consistent every week without being stars.

I must admit, I don't know to much about other teams players, but at our club it is the Croziers of the world who will never win a Brownlow, but is there to steady us.

So I would say for the Dogs it is, Crozier, Keath, Williams (although he is quickly becoming a star), even Roarke Smith is getting there doing the little things. Vandermeer has been a sensation and at this stage he is second tier and we miss him already.

[Happy Days]

Pretty much everyone on Richmond apart from Martin and Lynch. I know *I* definitely don't regard them as any good but they somehow keep winning all the time so they must be.

I really like Mitch Duncan and think his ability to sustain his skill level in relation to his workrate is unmatched. I've also really rated Jarryd Lyons' season and wish we traded Cooney for him like T&T suggested a million years ago and got ruthlessly bagged for.

Maynard from Collingwood is probably YOUR All Australian back pocket, but after the evidence put forward in the Suns game absolutely positively do not let him kick in from full back.

As an aside, lockdown has meant that I've watched damn near every second of AFL this year so have developed an opinion on just about every player. This must be how Roger Ebert felt about movies.

[1eyedog]

Agree on Maynard and Duncan. It's really the unsung heroes although both of these players (Maynard slightly more) are starting to get recognised as genuine stars.

It really depends how you define 'best' I suppose but if I was to name 'important' players for other teams it would be guys like Mitch Robinson for Brisbane. He adds hardness, desperation and has become a very good player in his own right. They seem to be a better side when he is playing. He's gone from a sniping dickhead to respected hard nut during his time at the Lions.

[comrade]

Duncan is a great choice. Absolutely love the way he goes about it.

[Twodogs]

Pretty much the entire Essendon list is second tier. Or they would be on other clubs lists, it's just a matter of degrees as to whether they would be on the "best" second tier. Maybe a guy like Joe Daniher would be elite at a different club where the expectations might be set a bit higher.

Anyway Luke Dalhaus is amongst the best second tier players for mine. His kicking stops him from being an out and out star but some of his other qualities are almost elite and makes him a valuable team member.

[azabob]

For the cats they have a few.

Sam Menagola, Mark Blicavs and Cam Gutherie.

All three would be a walk up start in our best 18 and add value straight away.

[comrade]

Geelong and Richmond feel like they're full of them, but are the players made to look better because of the system they play within? Or is the system made better because of the players in it?

Would Menagola or Guthrie be ahead of say Dunkley or Hunter, who have similar sorts of roles for us, or is Chris Scott utilising them in such a way that really builds on their strengths?

[azabob]

Geelong and Richmond feel like they're full of them, but are the players made to look better because of the system they play within? Or is the system made better because of the players in it?

Would Menagola or Guthrie be ahead of say Dunkley or Hunter, who have similar sorts of roles for us, or is Chris Scott utilising them in such a way that really builds on their strengths?

I believe it is system they play within. West Coast also fall into the Geelong and Richmond category.

Menagola would be our 2nd wingman and Gutherie ahead of McLean, Lipinski and Roarke Smith.

I've taken bets on both sides there.

[Axe Man]

Geelong and Richmond feel like they're full of them, but are the players made to look better because of the system they play within? Or is the system made better because of the players in it?

I'm no NRL expert but isn't Melbourne Storm a classic example of this? The second tier players often look fantastic under Bellamy's system, but when they are lured elsewhere with big dollars they often don't perform as well as they did for the Storm.

[comrade]

I believe it is system they play within. West Coast also fall into the Geelong and Richmond category.

Menagola would be our 2nd wingman and Gutherie ahead of McLean, Lipinski and Roarke Smith.

I've taken bets on both sides there.

Guthrie is definitely ahead of those three but McLean & Lipinski are aguably ahead of Dahl & Steven who both run through Geelong's midfield.

System vs personnel is a tough one and we certainly haven't cracked the code in the same way the top 4-5 teams have.

Consistency of effort and knowing your role to perfection is also something we haven't quite nailed (see McLean being moved around, Suckling forward, Gowers/Butler/Young/Weightman all getting games when not ready to perform consistently)

[ledge]

The old story of do you set a game plan to suit your list or do you get a list to suit your game plan, I’m a fan of the first and this is what makes your ordinary players second tier, play players in the position that suits them best in a game plan that suits them best.
As mentioned above with the Storm, players can look brilliant if in the play that suits them.
Once they leave they go back to ordinary as they aren’t in the same “team “ game.
Rance to me was the perfect example of a player who was taught to use his strengths and the Tigers players played around his style, IMO he was a terrible kick and needed the team game to suit his model of player.
He became known as a star but on his own he was just above ordinary , don’t get me wrong he played his role perfectly but it was helped by all players around him supporting him.

[Mitcha]

Have to give a shout out to Liam Baker at Richmond. Thought he actually showed a bit as a small forward with good defensive actions but like him even more down back. Pretty tough and looks to relish the tasks he has been given on dangerous Oppo match ups.

[jeemak]

I would say for us it's likes of Crozier, Wallis and Liberatore. It may ruffle a few feathers but I don't think Libba has the capacity to be an A-Grader anymore, but he's very very good at what he does to support those who are.

Daniel at GWS is one player who comes to mind for me, he always seems to be chipping in, a bit like Shaun Hart used to for Brisbane amongst more lauded team mates.

As others have mentioned Collingwood seems to be a team full of this particular type.