Being Creative: The new Tom Boyd is...

[mjp]

I don’t know if you guys know this, but once upon a time our captain left and we somehow turned him into the best young tall in the country...who would turn in a BOG performance in the 2016 GF.

Back when it happened, I was amongst those who said ‘they will never trade Boyd’. As it turned out, I was (as usual) proven to be wrong and they DID trade Boyd.

Apparently we need a ruckman.

The best young ruckman is Luke Jackson. His club already have Max Gawn so he has been pinch hitting as a forward. NOW they are apparently going to trade for Ben Brown...so I guess there is one less spot in the forward line for young Luke.

Could we - assuming JD leaves - turn what we get in return into Jackson? What would it take? 2x first round picks? More? LESS?? Thoughts???

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I don’t know anything about Jackson but was thinking Ben King for this scenario.

[GVGjr]

Preuss has flagged his intention to move to GWS so that thins the ranks a bit Melbourne with their back-up ruck options and Melbourne are apparently offering at least one if not both of the McDonald brothers as trade bait so that clears up a spot in the forward line for Jackson

If you go by the logic that clubs won't draft ruckman with early picks unless they regard them as exceptional then I'm assuming they are all in for Jackson becoming a fey forward and ruckman and they want to play alongside of Brown and Weideman .

He's 19yo and a few years younger than our ruckman so he might be regarded as a project player.

I doubt Melbourne would trade him but it would need a couple of first rounders to maybe get a deal done

I like these sort of suggestions though, never hurts to ask the question

[jazzadogs]

I don’t know anything about him but was thinking Ben King for this scenario.

What would King cost? I would imagine something like what we are wanting for Dunkley - so a couple of first round picks, or a first round pick and an important player. But we would also need to outbid a number of other clubs.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

What would King cost? I would imagine something like what we are wanting for Dunkley - so a couple of first round picks, or a first round pick and an important player. But we would also need to outbid a number of other clubs.

Suns would probably want players. So we’d have to get involved with another club with potential picks from Dunkley.

[Scraggers]

Where are we with Jordan Sweet ... is Luke Jackson better than Jordan?

I don't really know Jackson at all, so can't judge. But if Sweet has promise then I don't see the purpose of bringing in Luke Jackson. Jordan is just as young and a promising ruck ... I think :eek:

[hujsh]

Where are we with Jordan Sweet ... is Luke Jackson better than Jordan?

I don't really know Jackson at all, so can't judge. But if Sweet has promise then I don't see the purpose of bringing in Luke Jackson. Jordan is just as young and a promising ruck ... I think :eek:

Well not having seen much of him Jackson is a no.3 draft pick playing at 19 years of age and Sweet is a mature age ruck who hasn't got a game yet so I can't see the 'potential' of Sweet getting in the way for a player like that.

[Happy Days]

I don’t really see what Jackson has done that would require we give up two firsts for him when he was worth one a year ago.

We need a ruckman that is ready to be very good right now if we want to do any damage with what should be an excellent list.

[The Underdog]

I don’t really see what Jackson has done that would require we give up two firsts for him when he was worth one a year ago.

We need a ruckman that is ready to be very good right now if we want to do any damage with what should be an excellent list.

We gave up our captain and pick 6 for Boyd one year after he was drafted, so potentially we'd be paying less for Jackson. Although I can't see any situation where either Jackson leaves for another Vic team or Melbourne trade him.

[bornadog]

I doubt Melbourne would trade him but it would need a couple of first rounders to maybe get a deal done

I like these sort of suggestions though, never hurts to ask the question

We don't ask Melbourne, we do what Essendon have supposedly done and throw a 5 year contract plus big dollars at a Jackson and he then goes to his club and says this is too good to refuse. That is what we did to get Boyd?

Maybe there are other potential young ruckman that we could target?

[The Adelaide Connection]

What about Jordan Ridley? Plays tall, great user of the footy and intercepts for fun.

Just signed for two years, a delicious number for synchronicity of current events and dealing of maximum Essington schadenfreude.

[Go_Dogs]

It’s a no for me.

I don’t mind the idea, but not sure he’s the player we need at the moment. Our list (top end) isn’t far off competing. We need some tweaks around the edges, and another couple of A-B+ grade players who are ready to go. Jackson isn’t a player that really fits our time line as the key piece we give up a lot for. Would be happy to have him, but not as part of that deal.

[azabob]

What about Jordan Ridley? Plays tall, great user of the footy and intercepts for fun.

Just signed for two years, a delicious number for synchronicity of current events and dealing of maximum Essington schadenfreude.

Pass. He doesn’t fill a priority need for mine.

[SquirrelGrip]

What about Nicnat?

[Bulldog Joe]

I was thinking, that maybe the player that suits Bevo is actually Rhys Stanley, although Marc Blicavs is probably more it.

Stanley might be gettable for 2 or 3 years.

[1eyedog]

Stanley is pretty bad Joe.

[Bulldog Joe]

Stanley is pretty bad Joe.

He was good enough to play in the GF team and competed better as a ruckman than Tim English over the year.

I have never been a fan, but he has the mobility thing that Bevo seems to crave. If we bring someone in it needs to be someone Bevo would play.

[The Pie Man]

Boyd was a forward who ended up better suited to spending at least 40% of the game as a ruck, and arguably contributed more in those minutes.

You could argue we already have that player with a similar trajectory (or at least could)

Josh Schache

[soupman]

Boyd was a forward who ended up better suited to spending at least 40% of the game as a ruck, and arguably contributed more in those minutes.

You could argue we already have that player with a similar trajectory (or at least could)

Josh Schache

I'm very sceptical on Schache being any good in the ruck. We already have one timid ruck, I will be surprised if Schache is able to exert any influence in the position considering his track record thus far.

[Rocket Science]

If you're partial to English getting man-handled in the ruck Schache would like you to hold his beer.

[bornadog]

Boyd was a forward who ended up better suited to spending at least 40% of the game as a ruck, and arguably contributed more in those minutes.

You could argue we already have that player with a similar trajectory (or at least could)

Josh Schache

I have mentioned this a few times and agree. Last year he played second ruck a few times, with the Hawthorn match a stand out. Whilst in the ruck, he kicked two of his four goals. He just needs to be competitive and give English a chop out.

[comrade]

We need a physical and mature ruckman to help English both on field and on the training track. Schache is neither.

[Sedat]

He was good enough to play in the GF team and competed better as a ruckman than Tim English over the year.

I have never been a fan, but he has the mobility thing that Bevo seems to crave. If we bring someone in it needs to be someone Bevo would play.
I agree that Stanley is a better performed and more effective ruckman than English. However he is the same ruck type as English - I would rather see a bash & crash type (in the Nank vein) that will compliment English's strengths and help overcome his weaknesses.

Mentioned this in the Josh Bruce thread, but if Bruce cannot provide what we need as a key target up forward, perhaps he can be deployed to bash in around the ruck stoppages in the highly unlikely event that we get another ruckman onto the list. Having Bruce do virtually nothing of value up forward and burning English against bigger bodies in the ruck did neither of the two any favours in 2020 - flipping their respective roles can't hurt and will definitely help English become the serious asset he can be for us.

[The Pie Man]

I have mentioned this a few times and agree. Last year he played second ruck a few times, with the Hawthorn match a stand out. Whilst in the ruck, he kicked two of his four goals. He just needs to be competitive and give English a chop out.

I partially agree with others in this thread that he lacks the physical presence to be a viable option... *IF* he’s to make anything of his career with us, playing substantial ruck minutes & finding a consistent competitive edge might be his only hope.

Plus he fits the high draft pick traded in like T Boyd.

Same height as Nankervis

[Danjul]

We don’t need a world beater in the ruck. English can be quite suitable in 50% of games. In the others the priority is not wasting him there for 8 hitouts like in the elimination final. If we had Sweet trying to restrict Ryder (game 2’s lesson), English mobile in the forward line and Bruce on the backline we would have won it by a few goals.

[jeemak]

Is putting on bulk and having a go at being a second ruck the only way Schache forges a long term career in the AFL?

To the OP, I don't mind the thought for the long term and it would be amazing if we ended up with two elite rucks on our list, both of who are versatile.

[Go_Dogs]

Lewis Young is the other who probably has to make it with some minutes per game in the ruck.

Not convinced any of Bruce, Schache or Young are going to be stars in that role. But they could be serviceable enough for a short period which is all we may need to turn us from a nearly side to a genuine contender.

[The Adelaide Connection]

What about Adelaide's list? Surely they are more vulnerable to having players poached now at their lowest ebb than they have ever been before? Even in the good times they have struggled with player retention.

Could we look at dogs supporter Fischer McAsey, Darcy Fogarty, or Doedee (who is admittedly coming back from a bad hammy last year on the back of an ACL)?

[Hotdog60]

We should have thrown Sweet to the wolves this year and may be we wouldn't be looking for a ruck.
A compromised season with the whole Covid thing so we should have bit the bullet.

[dog town]

We don’t need a world beater in the ruck. English can be quite suitable in 50% of games. In the others the priority is not wasting him there for 8 hitouts like in the elimination final. If we had Sweet trying to restrict Ryder (game 2’s lesson), English mobile in the forward line and Bruce on the backline we would have won it by a few goals. The absolute last thing we want is a giant statue in the ruck who is just ok and has little impact. If they are just ok in the ruck then they absolutely must be able to go forward with impact.

[Danjul]

The absolute last thing we want is a giant statue in the ruck who is just ok and has little impact. If they are just ok in the ruck then they absolutely must be able to go forward with impact.
The problem is we ran English and Dunkley in the ruck in the elimination final- and effectively negated both of them.

Season worst performance for both. And exactly what was expected based upon what was seen earlier.

It is a win for the Dogs if we can stop handicapping ourselves and a bonus if the ruckman can be average.

[Mofra]

I like the thinking of the OP - the other part of the equation for Tom Boyd was an unprecedented $6.2m (effectively $7m when you factor in Griff's 2015 payment), 7 year deal - that's Brodie Grundy money for an unproved 19 year old ruck, and based on 2020 form even Brodie Grundy isn't worth that contract.

I want a senior ruckman as much for their mentoring role for English as for their on-field impact. If we can't get one, I'd be willing to sign a (largely cooked) Stef Martin to manage him through 5-10 games this year, pay him under our TPP and have him as a playing ruck coach that doesn't contribute to our soft cap payments.

[Mofra]

Back to being creative - Treloar is on a huge, back-ended deal and comes with question marks so any club picking him up would be making a bold move.

Dunkley is seriously considering a move to Essendon, aside from questioning his mental faculties we should at least listen to Essendon's second offer (Dodo's first offers are always idiotic). If we manage a 2020 first and 2021 first, I'd ask Collingwood what salary contribution they'd make for Treloar and whether a late 2020 first would get it done. We may need to even the trade up with a 2021 pick (they need points for Daicos) and they send back a late 2020 pick to help us with JUH points.

We effectively swap a solid citizen, ball winning beast Dunkley for Treloar and a 2021 first rounder, with Collingwood and the Bulldogs benefitting a little from extra points for NGA bids.

[Happy Days]

I'd really rather keep Dunkley than get Treloar. All Collingwood false flagging aside his body can't be trusted if he's to be on that big a contract. I honestly think Dunks is a better player too.

[Mofra]

I'd really rather keep Dunkley than get Treloar. All Collingwood false flagging aside his body can't be trusted if he's to be on that big a contract. I honestly think Dunks is a better player too.
So would I, but we simply must plan for an "I want out" and a huge offer from Essendon.

They have three "untouchables" - Draper, Ridley and McGrath and they're the only three I like on their list. We simply have to be sounding out the market.

[soupman]

I will actually be pissed off if we grab Treloar to save face.

[1eyedog]

So would I, but we simply must plan for an "I want out" and a huge offer from Essendon.

They have three "untouchables" - Draper, Ridley and McGrath and they're the only three I like on their list. We simply have to be sounding out the market.

Add Walla to that list. They'd burn the house down if they traded him.

[Mofra]

I will actually be pissed off if we grab Treloar to save face.
I'd be happy enough with Tom Phillips. By all accounts he's priced himself out of the market for most Vic clubs (asking $500-550k for four years!) but he's a legitimate, two-way running wingman and would make us a better side. He replaces Roarke/Hayes/Lipinski on the second wing.

[The Underdog]

I'd be happy enough with Tom Phillips. By all accounts he's priced himself out of the market for most Vic clubs (asking $500-550k for four years!) but he's a legitimate, two-way running wingman and would make us a better side. He replaces Roarke/Hayes/Lipinski on the second wing.

Agree, would love to see us have a crack at Phillips, but would be gobsmacked if we did.

[Grantysghost]

Add Walla to that list. They'd burn the house down if they traded him.

All the Dons fans I know love Merrett. Considering he's a bit wobbly in his faith in their direction, he's the one I'd be at big time. He's a class player, he can play inside and out and is only 25.

[bornadog]

Agree, would love to see us have a crack at Phillips, but would be gobsmacked if we did.

I don't think he is a need.

We have to chase players that are a need to improve our list. Nothing against Phillips, but we need a ruck, Fullback and a small crumbing forward.

Will be hard to get all those during the trade.

[Mofra]

I don't think he is a need.

We have to chase players that are a need to improve our list. Nothing against Phillips, but we need a ruck, Fullback and a small crumbing forward.

Will be hard to get all those during the trade.
I disagree on needs - I think we desperately need a wing to pair with Hunter.
Moreso if the experiment to play Hunter a bit more 'inside' actually goes ahead.

[bornadog]

I disagree on needs - I think we desperately need a wing to pair with Hunter.
Moreso if the experiment to play Hunter a bit more 'inside' actually goes ahead.

I think Vander on the wing is ideal to fill the role.

[mjp]

Can I just go back to my OP for a second.

We targeted Boyd because he was considered "THAT good".

Who else is "THAT" good and still on their rookie deal who we could throw 7 trizillion at? I nominated Jackson because he is an amazing young ruckman...who else you got!

Phillips is a nice player, but...well, seriously?

I could be talked into Stephenson I guess.

[comrade]

Can I just go back to my OP for a second.

We targeted Boyd because he was considered "THAT good".

Who else is "THAT" good and still on their rookie deal who we could throw 7 trizillion at? I nominated Jackson because he is an amazing young ruckman...who else you got!

Phillips is a nice player, but...well, seriously?

I could be talked into Stephenson I guess.

Ben King?

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I don’t know anything about Jackson but was thinking Ben King for this scenario.

This. We really wanted him in his draft year too.

[SquirrelGrip]

If a club was prepared to pay all of Grundy's contract, I think the Pies would be open to trading him. They are getting very nervous with what they have locked in to pay him.

[GVGjr]

Mark Blicavs is the player who would fit us nicely. He can play a variety of positions effectively and most importantly he can play significant minutes in the ruck
While I can't see Geelong parting with him but perhaps a first round pick would be tempting and they could really dominate the draft and get their Cameron deal done

We could play him on a wing and then move him into the ruck. I think Bevo would rate him

[Axe Man]

Ben King isn't in the same boat as Tom Boyd as he is no longer on his rookie contract and likely already on good money.

Agree that Melbourne are all in on Jackson, they can't afford to let him go like GWS could with Boyd due to plenty of other KPFs at the time.

Matt Rowell is the obvious one from 2019 but has already extended to 2023 and there's no way Gold Coast let him go, they might as well close the doors if they did.

I don't think there is anyone in the $1 million contract range but perhaps some of the other top 10 picks like McAsey or the Freo trio of Serong, Young and Henry?

Really though I think Boyd is a situation unlikely to be repeated.

This thread seems to be going off on a bit of a tangent...

[mjp]

Really though I think Boyd is a situation unlikely to be repeated.

Well...not with an attitude like that it isn't! :-)

I don't think offering this sort of deal to a midfielder makes much sense...McAsey might be one worth pursuing...do the work NOW!

[bornadog]

Really though I think Boyd is a situation unlikely to be repeated.

In a way, Essendon's bid for a 16 game player in Caldwell is a similar deal, although dollars are less at $550k per annum over 5

[Axe Man]

In a way, Essendon's bid for a 16 game player in Caldwell is a similar deal, although dollars are less at $550k per annum over 5

Out of contract is a big difference, leaves GWS with no choice. Trading for a players after 1 year and still in contract is much different.

[Axe Man]

Well...not with an attitude like that it isn't! :-)

I don't think offering this sort of deal to a midfielder makes much sense...McAsey might be one worth pursuing...do the work NOW!

I would make an exception for Rowell - I would give up Dunkley, JJ, Ceasar the mascot and BAD.;)

[jeemak]

Very early to tell how he'll turn out, though with Daniher going to Brisbane does that enable us to pry Fullarton away from them and see how he develops over a three year period?

[bornadog]

I would make an exception for Rowell - I would give up Dunkley, JJ, Ceasar the mascot and BAD.;)

You traitor :D

[Axe Man]

You traitor :D

Yeah I would feel bad for Ceasar but we can always get another Bulldog. :p

[Bulldog4life]

I'm very sceptical on Schache being any good in the ruck. We already have one timid ruck, I will be surprised if Schache is able to exert any influence in the position considering his track record thus far.

I think that is rough calling Tim timid. Don't agree at all.

[Bulldog4life]

Lewis Young is the other who probably has to make it with some minutes per game in the ruck.

Not convinced any of Bruce, Schache or Young are going to be stars in that role. But they could be serviceable enough for a short period which is all we may need to turn us from a nearly side to a genuine contender.

i have seen Young play quite well in the VFL in the ruck. Not AFL but worth a try.

[1eyedog]

Mark Blicavs is the player who would fit us nicely. He can play a variety of positions effectively and most importantly he can play significant minutes in the ruck
While I can't see Geelong parting with him but perhaps a first round pick would be tempting and they could really dominate the draft and get their Cameron deal done

We could play him on a wing and then move him into the ruck. I think Bevo would rate him

Agreed he really would compliment us well. he can play on a wing, back and in the ruck. The perfect Bevo prototype.

[EasternWest]

I would make an exception for Rowell - I would give up Dunkley, JJ, Ceasar the mascot and BAD.;)

It's true what everyone says about you. Can't be trusted, can't be relied on to sticky a thread.

[soupman]

I think that is rough calling Tim timid. Don't agree at all.

Maybe not timid, but he is certainly not assertive or aggressive and has had multiple games where he has been beaten in the ruck and seemingly gone into his shell. Ideally we get another ruck type in that is a real contrast to Tim, hence the calls for a bash and crash guy like Nankervis. Schache does not compliment English in this way, if Tim is getting beaten up i want to be able to send someone in there that can stop the rot in the hitouts and give English a real chop out, Schache is not that.

[SquirrelGrip]

Ideally we get another ruck type in that is a real contrast to Tim, hence the calls for a bash and crash guy like Nankervis.

The issue with the "bash and crash" guys is that they can only play one position (think Nankervis, Mumford, Martin). Who is there who is both "bash and crash" and can play other roles?

[soupman]

The issue with the "bash and crash" guys is that they can only play one position (think Nankervis, Mumford, Martin). Who is there who is both "bash and crash" and can play other roles?

Agree, but I prefer the idea of English playing as a second ruck anyway so that's fine.

[SquirrelGrip]

Agree, but I prefer the idea of English playing as a second ruck anyway so that's fine.

So Tim only goes in the ruck when the "bash & crash" is on the bench?

[Bulldog Joe]

To follow on MJP's thesis, how would Mitch Georgiades fit in.

Really impressed in what I saw of him. Seems good in the air and at ground level.

Does he have enough size to play key position?

[soupman]

So Tim only goes in the ruck when the "bash & crash" is on the bench?

Not quite. Someone like Nankervis or Martin can roll back and help the defence at times or also be up forward (not for long but 5 minutes a quarter). Let English play as a roaming tall where needed. His ruckwork is the weakest part of his game so if thats his biggest sacrifice who cares. I'd be expecting the main ruck to play 70%ish in the ruck.

[bornadog]

Not quite. Someone like Nankervis or Martin can roll back and help the defence at times or also be up forward (not for long but 5 minutes a quarter). Let English play as a roaming tall where needed. His ruckwork is the weakest part of his game so if thats his biggest sacrifice who cares. I'd be expecting the main ruck to play 70%ish in the ruck.

Martin cannot do anything else but ruck these days, so he would have to be on an off the bench.

[SquirrelGrip]

Not quite. Someone like Nankervis or Martin can roll back and help the defence at times or also be up forward (not for long but 5 minutes a quarter). Let English play as a roaming tall where needed. His ruckwork is the weakest part of his game so if thats his biggest sacrifice who cares. I'd be expecting the main ruck to play 70%ish in the ruck.

I agree the other ruck should be a bigger body than Tim, but would like them to do more than roll back. Ryder is probably the best model but his form prior to moving to the Saints was not great.

Blicavs is a player I admire too but he is absolutely unique in what he offers. I'd love to see Tim roam more but he doesn't have run like Blicavs or even Stanley for that matter. I suspect Bevo wants more a Blicavs/Stanley set up than a Marshall/Ryder set up.

[Axe Man]

To follow on MJP's thesis, how would Mitch Georgiades fit in.

Really impressed in what I saw of him. Seems good in the air and at ground level.

Does he have enough size to play key position?

He seems like that not quite key position size, a bit like Mihocek. Maybe he puts on more size and becomes a genuine KPF?

Left field suggestion from the same draft - Sam De Koning from Geelong. I know next to nothing about him, hasn't debuted yet, but he's 200cm and Harry Taylor mentioned he knew it was time to retire when he was struggling to go with him at training. Was a KPD for Vic Country.

[mjp]

He seems like that not quite key position size, a bit like Mihocek. Maybe he puts on more size and becomes a genuine KPF?

Left field suggestion from the same draft - Sam De Koning from Geelong. I know next to nothing about him, hasn't debuted yet, but he's 200cm and Harry Taylor mentioned he knew it was time to retire when he was struggling to go with him at training. Was a KPD for Vic Country.

Yeah - I like it!

Exciting suggest, left field...great idea.

[jeemak]

Very early to tell how he'll turn out, though with Daniher going to Brisbane does that enable us to pry Fullarton away from them and see how he develops over a three year period?

Guess not..............

[soupman]

Guess not..............

I was wondering where this post went.

I know nothing about him except he is an excellent size and has already played twice.

I do really like the idea of this thread, try and get in before the rush, although I'm kind of burned by the Tom Boyd trade which realistically aside from the 2016 finals series (which undoubtedly made it a complete success) was a complete failure.

I do think targeting promising players who haven't quite locked up their future yet is a good strategy (as North have done with our own Young), and it could also help us big time atm with a number of our 2-4th year players being delisting material.

I've been pushing for Lachie Schultz of Freo for ages, who is still out of contract afaik, and i think he fits the bill as a value player, a bit like Oleg Markov who just went to GC for a third rounder. Thats a bargain considering how low a percentage play the pick Richmond got for him is.

[Mofra]

He seems like that not quite key position size, a bit like Mihocek. Maybe he puts on more size and becomes a genuine KPF?

Left field suggestion from the same draft - Sam De Koning from Geelong. I know next to nothing about him, hasn't debuted yet, but he's 200cm and Harry Taylor mentioned he knew it was time to retire when he was struggling to go with him at training. Was a KPD for Vic Country.
An unproven KPD from Geelong with a brother on an AFL list - it couldn't be more of a Bulldog trade in, could it

[Mofra]

I've been pushing for Lachie Schultz of Freo for ages, who is still out of contract afaik, and i think he fits the bill as a value player, a bit like Oleg Markov who just went to GC for a third rounder. Thats a bargain considering how low a percentage play the pick Richmond got for him is.
I prefer Schultz to Lonie.
Ex-Williamstown lad so there's a bit of westie romance in there too.

[DOG GOD]

Lewis Young is the other who probably has to make it with some minutes per game in the ruck.

Not convinced any of Bruce, Schache or Young are going to be stars in that role. But they could be serviceable enough for a short period which is all we may need to turn us from a nearly side to a genuine contender.

Well, Schache and Lew Young probably won’t be at the dogs in 2021.

[bornadog]

Well, Schache and Lew Young probably won’t be at the dogs in 2021.

Personally, I think they will, but remains to be seen.

[Twodogs]

An unproven KPD from Geelong with a brother on an AFL list - it couldn't be more of a Bulldog trade in, could it

And his dad was a (extremely ordinary) bulldog player.

[mjp]

An unproven KPD from Geelong with a brother on an AFL list - it couldn't be more of a Bulldog trade in, could it

Well...

It's more about finding a player (and I obviously went down the "high draft pick" route by nominating Jackson) who is under-paid based on their 'ULTIMATE' value and striking now! Whether or not De Koning is that player, I don't know - but it is the sort of left field option I think we should be focussing on.

Talking about guys who spend most of their time in the 2's because they 'play a position of need' simply never works because they aren't good enough and end up playing 2's for us as well. When our focus is ruck retreads who aren't any good, well, we aren't going to be any good!

[Mofra]

Well...

It's more about finding a player (and I obviously went down the "high draft pick" route by nominating Jackson) who is under-paid based on their 'ULTIMATE' value and striking now! Whether or not De Koning is that player, I don't know - but it is the sort of left field option I think we should be focussing on.

Talking about guys who spend most of their time in the 2's because they 'play a position of need' simply never works because they aren't good enough and end up playing 2's for us as well. When our focus is ruck retreads who aren't any good, well, we aren't going to be any good!
I think it differs by position - junior KPDs stuck behind senior players can work simply because KPDs take longer to develop (e.g. Hamling stuck behind mature options at Geelong). Rucks can be in the same boat - Nankervis at Sydney, Jolly at Melbourne, Mumford at Geelong.

[Mofra]

What if I told you there is a player who averaged 1.5 goals per game, 4 marks and 3 tackles as a forward in his debut season, and only two years later was gettable?

[Grantysghost]

What if I told you there is a player who averaged 1.5 goals per game, 4 marks and 3 tackles as a forward in his debut season, and only two years later was gettable?

He might be receptive to the all embracing coach rather than the more figgy one too.

[Mofra]

He might be receptive to the all embracing coach rather than the more figgy one too.
I've rarely seen more 'broken' body language from a 21 year old on a football field.

I like the idea of "unrealised talent" and was all for the Jack Martin bid. Stephenson comes with baggage but if there's any way we can mitigate that he's an ideal target.

[Axe Man]

What if I told you there is a player who averaged 1.5 goals per game, 4 marks and 3 tackles as a forward in his debut season, and only two years later was gettable?

We've already got Billy Gowers.

[Rocket Science]

I've rarely seen more 'broken' body language from a 21 year old on a football field.

I like the idea of "unrealised talent" and was all for the Jack Martin bid. Stephenson comes with baggage but if there's any way we can mitigate that he's an ideal target.

Baggage?

Suspect Jongy or JJ might like to have a word with him on the merits of arguing literal nazis have a right to be heard.

I'd rather recruit Egg Boy to sit in a forward pocket.

[EasternWest]

Suspect Jongy or JJ might like to have a word with him on the merits of arguing literal nazis have a right to be heard.

I'd rather recruit Egg Boy to sit in a forward pocket.

Say what now?

On your second point, I'd have egg boy. He can tag Greene.

[hujsh]

Say what now?

On your second point, I'd have egg boy. He can tag Greene.


Whatever he said the tweet was deleted

[EasternWest]

Whatever he said the tweet was deleted

Nothing's ever deleted from the internet.

[hujsh]

Nothing's ever deleted from the internet.


Oh yeah I'm sure it's somewhere. Can't be bothered to look for the specifics though. Reaction says enough

[Rocket Science]

Say what now?

On your second point, I'd have egg boy. He can tag Greene.

Okay it's agreed, Egg Boy locked in for round one.

As to Stephenson - as if having to barrack for a bloke christened JAIDYN isn't bad enough - just the small matter of riffing, uninvited, on a nazi getting egged with "unpopular opinion coming" before declaring Fraser Anning is only "standing up for what he believes in" and "shouldn't be vilified for it", because advocating certain others be exterminated is really just a difference of opinion.

And then there's the whole getting sprung punting on your own team business.

Yeah, love to have him on board.

[EasternWest]

Okay it's agreed, Egg Boy locked in for round one.

As to Stephenson - as if having to barrack for a bloke christened JAIDYN isn't bad enough - just the small matter of riffing, uninvited, on a nazi getting egged with "unpopular opinion coming" before declaring Fraser Anning is only "standing up for what he believes in" and "shouldn't be vilified for it", because advocating certain others be exterminated is really just a difference of opinion.

And then there's the whole getting sprung punting on your own team business.

Yeah, love to have him on board.

Well that's it. Stephenson in the Tom McDonald bin.

[Rocket Science]

Here ya go.

https://i.ibb.co/8cdfFGn/Screen-Shot-2020-11-06-at-4-16-15-pm.png (https://ibb.co/BNrQ8vH)

Sure, let's get around him.

[Twodogs]

Okay it's agreed, Egg Boy locked in for round one.

As to Stephenson - as if having to barrack for a bloke christened JAIDYN isn't bad enough - just the small matter of riffing, uninvited, on a nazi getting egged with "unpopular opinion coming" before declaring Fraser Anning is only "standing up for what he believes in" and "shouldn't be vilified for it", because advocating certain others be exterminated is really just a difference of opinion.

And then there's the whole getting sprung punting on your own team business.

Yeah, love to have him on board.

One of my kids is called Jaidyn...





Not really.

[azabob]

The best young ruckman is Luke Jackson. His club already have Max Gawn so he has been pinch hitting as a forward. NOW they are apparently going to trade for Ben Brown...so I guess there is one less spot in the forward line for young Luke.



mjp keep pushing.

There is talk today that Melbourne are keen on ruckman Andrew Phillips from Essendon.

Surely now is the time you tap Bulldogtragic on the shoulder or Sam Power and get it done.

[Rocket Science]

One of my kids is called Jaidyn...





Not really.

:D

Reckon I'd let it slide provided he wasn't a nazi sypathiser.

[Twodogs]

:D

Reckon I'd let it slide provided he wasn't a nazi sypathiser.

I agree. Very unfortunate tweet. If you have to start a statement with "I am not a Nazi/racist/wife basher/in agreement with being cruel to cute little animals/etc" then it's probably better to keep your mouth closed.

[SonofScray]

Here ya go.

https://i.ibb.co/8cdfFGn/Screen-Shot-2020-11-06-at-4-16-15-pm.png (https://ibb.co/BNrQ8vH)

Sure, let's get around him.
Oh dear.

[Bulldog4life]

Well that's it. Stephenson in the Tom McDonald bin.

Yep. Put the lid on too please before you leave the house.

[Happy Days]

I was pretty rough on the Nazi sympathiser stuff (while pretty drunk no cap), which is admittedly dumb as hell, but kinda willing to forgive it because he was a stupid idiot 19 year old and I heard plenty of similarly stupid opinions from people misinterpreting the right to freeze peach or whatever it was he was going for at the same age from people now much more well rounded.

The betting on his own games though is a BIG yikes and should probably have blackballed him. Also did anyone else see him last year? He’s TERRIBLE now and has undergone the Shane Biggs 2018 body transformation. And that heart condition is still around and should not be discounted.

He’s a needless risk who doesn’t make us better.

[Rocket Science]

Tell ya what, I'd be okay with recruiting Stephenson on the proviso he's made to inform Jongy, with PG, Bevo and the leadership group present, that those who regularly abuse him (https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/sport/afl/2020/09/26/lin-jongs-stand-against-racism/160104240010464) are simply standing up for what they believe in and deserve to be heard.

If there's contrition and ownership, then make it plain. Until then, f**k very off.

[EasternWest]

Tell ya what, I'd be okay with recruiting Stephenson on the proviso he's made to inform Jongy, with PG, Bevo and the leadership group present, that those who regularly abuse him (https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/sport/afl/2020/09/26/lin-jongs-stand-against-racism/160104240010464) are simply standing up for what they believe in and deserve to be heard.

Testify.

[jeemak]

A nineteen year old being a dickhead because of ignorance isn't anything new. It's actually OK for people to be educated and for them to change.

[Rocket Science]

A nineteen year old being a dickhead because of ignorance isn't anything new. It's actually OK for people to be educated and for them to change.

Yeah nah. Railing, completely uninvited, that genocidal racists deserve a platform goes a bit beyond being a naive dickhead - though we might afford a little forgiveness given the cultural environment he's been reared in, overseen by their magnificent President.

Of course people can change. What's also OK is the expectation they own their behaviour. If I'd suggested the Annings of the world deserve space to do their thing, then changed my mind on the topic, I'd be at least as keen to set the record straight as I was to decry those trying to fight a card carrying nazi.

Anyway I've well and truly derailed MJP's thread ...

[Bulldog4life]

Back on topic the only player I can think of, has been mentioned, is a player we did have our eye on initially. Ben King. He is a long term prospect and would be coming back to his home state. Would be a great get.

[EasternWest]

Back on topic the only player I can think of, has been mentioned, is a player we did have our eye on initially. Ben King. He is a long term prospect and would be coming back to his home state. Would be a great get.

I'd trade Axe Man, jeemak and maybe azabob for Ben King in a heartbeat.

But they can't have bulldogtragic.

[azabob]

I'd trade Axe Man, jeemak and maybe azabob for Ben King in a heartbeat.

But they can't have bulldogtragic.

Honestly, I’d be apart of that trade for the greater good.

[Happy Days]

Yo if we get Ben King you could trade me to North Korea.

[Ghost Dog]

I was pretty rough on the Nazi sympathiser stuff (while pretty drunk no cap), which is admittedly dumb as hell, but kinda willing to forgive it because he was a stupid idiot 19 year old and I heard plenty of similarly stupid opinions from people misinterpreting the right to freeze peach or whatever it was he was going for at the same age from people now much more well rounded.

The betting on his own games though is a BIG yikes and should probably have blackballed him. Also did anyone else see him last year? He’s TERRIBLE now and has undergone the Shane Biggs 2018 body transformation. And that heart condition is still around and should not be discounted.

He’s a needless risk who doesn’t make us better.

I demand more Freeze Peach! Love your work

[mjp]

I was pretty rough on the Nazi sympathiser stuff (while pretty drunk no cap), which is admittedly dumb as hell, but kinda willing to forgive it because he was a stupid idiot 19 year old and I heard plenty of similarly stupid opinions from people misinterpreting the right to freeze peach or whatever it was he was going for at the same age from people now much more well rounded.

The betting on his own games though is a BIG yikes and should probably have blackballed him. Also did anyone else see him last year? He’s TERRIBLE now and has undergone the Shane Biggs 2018 body transformation. And that heart condition is still around and should not be discounted.

He’s a needless risk who doesn’t make us better.

Sounds like a "BUY LOW" situation to me.

"So Ned - about Stephenson. He is fat. Can't run. Can't pick up the ball below his knees. Wont tackle (let alone chase). Is petrified of contact. Has a gambling problem. Is a Nazi...AND has a heart condition. If you throw in a 3rd rounder, we'll take him off your hands?"

[The Doctor]

Isaac Rankine

The best player in his draft and the most dynamic small forward I've seen at the elite junior level. Potentially the next Eddie Betts.

I can only dream of a forward line containing Rankine, Jamarra and Naughton as the key components if they were to live up to their true potential. Throw the kitchen sink to get him!

[mjp]

Isaac Rankine

The best player in his draft and the most dynamic small forward I've seen at the elite junior level. Potentially the next Eddie Betts.

I can only dream of a forward line containing Rankine, Jamarra and Naughton as the key components if they were to live up to their true potential. Throw the kitchen sink to get him!

OK - this is exactly what I'm talking about...he's got a couple of years on his deal Doc but why wouldn't we have a crack?

[1eyedog]

Isaac Rankine

The best player in his draft and the most dynamic small forward I've seen at the elite junior level. Potentially the next Eddie Betts.

I can only dream of a forward line containing Rankine, Jamarra and Naughton as the key components if they were to live up to their true potential. Throw the kitchen sink to get him!

Agreed. The risk is low you know he is going to be a star. Shop early.

[Mofra]

If we are seriously having an "all or nothing" crack at a kid who projects are either a potential star or at the very least a very good long term player, there's one kid who would be the front of the queue for mine - Fisher McAsey.

197cm CHB.
Bulldogs supporter as a kid (it's gotta help)
Position of need
Athletic
At a club with 'questionable' culture right now
Get Alex Keath on the phone to him to describe how different the clubs are

Selling the farm for a defender isn't the norm but in terms of ability, potential, position of need and even 'gettability' he'd have to be in the conversation.

[comrade]

If we are seriously having an "all or nothing" crack at a kid who projects are either a potential star or at the very least a very good long term player, there's one kid who would be the front of the queue for mine - Fisher McAsey.

197cm CHB.
Bulldogs supporter as a kid (it's gotta help)
Position of need
Athletic
At a club with 'questionable' culture right now
Get Alex Keath on the phone to him to describe how different the clubs are

Selling the farm for a defender isn't the norm but in terms of ability, potential, position of need and even 'gettability' he'd have to be in the conversation.

Yeah, that's a good call. Struggled at times this year but I mean, he was playing defence for Adelaide before being shuffled forward so who wouldn't have?

[mjp]

With the English injury and the complete uncertainty of:

1/. Whether he is actually a 'real' number one ruckman or something else altogether (though I will happily admit he IS a bloody good player).
2/. Who else on the list can actually PLAY in the ruck.

I just want to leave this here.

I get frustrated by a lot of things in footy - the 'STAND' rule remains number #1 - but this particular issue (the lack of a coherent plan for one of the few specialist positions that still remain in the game) is driving me genuinely crazy.

I also get that it cant be Jackson now - I posted this back in November 2020 when Melbourne had just missed the finals following the 'HUB' season - but who CAN it be? Who WILL it be? Is there some sort of plan?

[bornadog]

How about raiding GWS again.

They have a couple of talls and I am not 100% sure how good they are:

Flynn - 15 games (playing tonight and looks ok)
Briggs - 5 games
Sproule - 11 games

Nyoun at Richmond is a tall athletic type, but hasn't played a game yet. Looked ok at VFL game

None of these are a Tom Boyd type but could fill a need

[Swoop]

It'll be interesting to see if we're restricted by our salary cap this year.

In terms of ruckman, I feel like Lloyd Meek is a stand-up candidate. Unlikely to be number one behind Darcy, has stepped in adequately and offers genuine athleticism.

Sam Hayes is another genuine ruckman at Port Adelaide. Quality junior who will get an opportunity now with Lycett injured. He's done the work in the SANFL and he'd be ready to influence AFL matches.

Another poster recently mentioned Charlie Comben at North Melbourne who may be behind a few others that could fill a need.

I noticed Fisher McAsey's name pop up in this thread. He can't ruck but he's an example of a top end talent that could benefit from an opportunity.

Griffin Logue was mentioned today as a key position target for Victorian clubs but not sure we could extend ourselves financially.

Finally, a left option and unlikely following the recruitment of Tim O'Brien but Lewis Melican is someone who could perform a specific role.

Most of these are more moneyball style selections but it's certainly a discussion worth exploring.

[jeemak]

Swooooooop!

[jeemak]

I'll preface this by saying I don't want these players to leave (if you can believe that about one of them) however, I'm of the view Dunkley will move at year's end and we may also see Hunter request a trade for a fresh start in a different environment or even leave the game to focus on other pursuits.

Our key signings of English and Smith will command about $700K each, give or take (estimated 100% increase for Smith and 30% for English) leaving a differential of about ~$400K to ~$500K in the bank to find someone reasonably competent to play ruck for us after Hunter and Dunkley depart (assuming Dunkley and Hunter are on a combined ~$1.2M to ~$1.4M).

Is this enough to land a big man who is decent, given they go at a premium?

NB - I've been working across time zones and I'm cooked, so apologies if the numbers don't make sense!!!

[MrMahatma]

I'll preface this by saying I don't want these players to leave (if you can believe that about one of them) however, I'm of the view Dunkley will move at year's end and we may also see Hunter request a trade for a fresh start in a different environment or even leave the game to focus on other pursuits.

Our key signings of English and Smith will command about $700K each, give or take (estimated 100% increase for Smith and 30% for English) leaving a differential of about ~$400K to ~$500K in the bank to find someone reasonably competent to play ruck for us after Hunter and Dunkley depart (assuming Dunkley and Hunter are on a combined ~$1.2M to ~$1.4M).

Is this enough to land a big man who is decent, given they go at a premium?

NB - I've been working across time zones and I'm cooked, so apologies if the numbers don't make sense!!!

We’ll make other list changes. Martin will retire for one. West… prob others will end their second contract also. Cap should, theoretically, be fine but the well earned pay days of Smith and English do change things a bit.

[Bulldog4life]

In my opinion English is a number one ruckman and doubles as a ruck rover too which is rare as hen's teeth in today's ruck men. He is the old fashion follower and will continue to get better and better. Untradeable.

[soupman]

We’ll make other list changes. Martin will retire for one. West… prob others will end their second contract also. Cap should, theoretically, be fine but the well earned pay days of Smith and English do change things a bit.

Cant imagine either of these guys are on much, likely losing those two gives us $250-300k max which would mostly be taken up by the draftee contracts we use on those list spots.

As Swoop has highlighted above there is definitely talent available. And more than salary we can offer opportunity in a good side that has to be appealing for a fringe type looking for a way to advance their career.

[Happy Days]

English’s whole game has improved a ton, but his ruck work has too. He’s gone from comfortably the worst boundary first ruck to a competent one, and it’s made as much of a difference as anything.

Save for a weird half against Marc Pittonet, it’s not English’s ruck work killing us, it’s the 5 minutes of Zaine a quarter.

[Bulldog Joe]

English’s whole game has improved a ton, but his ruck work has too. He’s gone from comfortably the worst boundary first ruck to a competent one, and it’s made as much of a difference as anything.

Save for a weird half against Marc Pittonet, it’s not English’s ruck work killing us, it’s the 5 minutes of Zaine a quarter.

Have to disagree on Zaine.
He did more of the ruck work last week and was a huge improvement over Hannan

[Mofra]

We should get a close up look at Crossley today. Mindful of the cap, we should be looking for cheaper depth options.
As much as other clubs have mined the state leagues for developing rucks in the past 18 months (including the MSD), the potential for cheaper support players is still there.

Ideally we have Sweet as pure ruck depth, Crossley (or similar) as forward/ruck depth who can feasibly play in the same team as Timmy, and a kid to develop as well. Noting that many good rucks come from the rookie list we shouldn't have to reach.