Naughton to Fullback, English Full forward

[bornadog]

Well one failure of the trade period is we missed out on another Key back.

Time to change the team around. We can't go in with an undersized Cordy, Gardner is too inexperienced and Frankly not the man, Lew Young is still developing and unknown

As much as I hate it, Naughton should switch back to FB, English to play full forward and second ruck to Martin and Bruce and Schache can fight out CHF.

[Sedat]

Also Bont 75% forward. With no Naughts we need some more dangerous players inside F50 - no offence to Bruce and Schache but they aren't going to have the opposition quaking in their boots. Macrae, Dunks, Smith, Libba and Treloar is a plenty deep midfield with occasional stints in there from Bont.

[bulldogtragic]

Also Bont 75% forward. With no Naughts we need some more dangerous players inside F50 - no offence to Bruce and Schache but they aren't going to have the opposition quaking in their boots. Macrae, Dunks, Smith, Libba and Treloar is a plenty deep midfield with occasional stints in there from Bont.

If JUH impresses, it allows him to slot into a forward pocket. Extra height, but not a main KPD. His closing speed is still better than anyone on the list to give us some nimbleness.

[azabob]

Sedat, my initial reaction was no, Bont 90% midfield because he’s Bont.

Could he play the Martin role and just go where he wants?

[bornadog]

If JUH impresses, it allows him to slot into a forward pocket. Extra height, but not a main KPD. His closing speed is still better than anyone on the list to give us some nimbleness.

Yes good point

[Happy Days]

English to the forward line surely means no more Bruce right.

[Sedat]

Sedat, my initial reaction was no, Bont 90% midfield because he’s Bont.

Could he play the Martin role and just go where he wants?

I'd be just as happy with that, although I suspect Dusty would spend 60% or even more of his time forward of centre

[bulldogtragic]

Yes good point

I put up in the 2021 Round 1 side something like you as saying with Naughton in defence. A part from some leg speed, it looks a very solid set up:

Naughton, Keath, Young, Gardner
Bruce, Schache, English, JUH

Well balanced are different types of talls. And a very deeeeeep midfield.

[jeemak]

Yep, I'm happy with Naughton in defence, and being a swing man as required.

[azabob]

I'd be just as happy with that, although I suspect Dusty would spend 60% or even more of his time forward of centre

I’d be happy with Bont floating around forward of centre and attending centre bounces.

Surely it was no coincidence Richmond and Martin improved when Martin stopped getting touches defensive side of the centre

[bulldogtragic]

Yep, I'm happy with Naughton in defence, and being a swing man as required.

That's the beauty isn't it? If Bruce or Schache is stinking it up, swing Naughton up front and work out a plan with Bruce/Schache and covering off defence. Or English back as a sweeper which he's adept at.

Also, I don't see him going to always punch the ball as a one dimensional dour defender either. His contested intercept marking in defence would be a great asset in setting up forward 50 transitions and hopefully scoring opportunities.

If we moved him on paper to defence. Does automatically become our number one KPD?

[EasternWest]

English to the forward line surely means no more Bruce right.

I'm actually starting to think you're not keen on Bruce.

[jeemak]

BTW, is this the first time in ~45,000 posts that BAD has changed his mind? :)

[EasternWest]

BTW, is this the first time in ~45,000 posts that BAD has changed his mind? :)

I think he's thrown the 1 and is hoping to blindside us with the 2.

"Don't trust his lies".

[GVGjr]

I'm actually starting to think you're not keen on Bruce.

Long bow to draw

[comrade]

I guess my arm could be twisted.

[LostDoggy]

What’s the chances of Bevo trialling Bruce down back against the big forwards? He gets his hands to the ball but can’t catch so why not stick the big fist up?

I like the thought of Bont forward and roaming but with Naughtythere too.

[mjp]

I guess my arm could be twisted.

I will never understand why anyone would think moving the most dynamic forward I have seen playing for Footscray in 35+ years into defence. I simply don't get it.

Stick your match-winners in the forward half. He's probably played < 30 senior games forward...and has had a couple when he has looked simply unstoppable. U-N-S-T-O-P-P-A-B-L-E.

Kick it to Aaron and get the hell out of the way should be the basis of our game plan.

[SonofScray]

It is tempting, he is an asset where ever we put him.

English can spend some more time forward, but I think with Naughts we have a generational forward talent. Take care of business up the field and he will be incredibly damaging for a long time. Bruce is going to have to be in absolute sublime form to warrant a move I think. Or Schache, who has been harshly treated IMO.

[comrade]

I will never understand why anyone would think moving the most dynamic forward I have seen playing for Footscray in 35+ years into defence. I simply don't get it.

Stick your match-winners in the forward half. He's probably played < 30 senior games forward...and has had a couple when he has looked simply unstoppable. U-N-S-T-O-P-P-A-B-L-E.

Kick it to Aaron and get the hell out of the way should be the basis of our game plan.

Because our defence is putrid.

[bornadog]

BTW, is this the first time in ~45,000 posts that BAD has changed his mind? :)

Reluctantly yes. :D for discussion purposes, and to see what the backline should look like

Naughton is a super star in the making and we need him both ends.

[Happy Days]

Naughton stays forward. I'm firmly of the opinion that if a guy can be an elite CHF then he should be one, just because he could also be an elite CHB.

[jazzadogs]

We really need one of Cordy (24yo), Le Young (21yo), Gardner (23yo) or Trengrove (30yo, if he's around) to have a cracking pre season. Get as fit as they've ever been, work on their positioning and body work, and build muscle. Agility and acceleration should also be a focus for all of them. If one of them can do a Bailey Williams, we are much stronger.

[Vred]

I honestly still want to see Naughton in our forward line, he still has that swagger and skill that are required from forwards, combo of him + JUH + Bruce is scary.

Will be interesting to see what group he trains with over the pre-season.

[Bulldog4life]

Naughts has had a few interruptions to his young career to date which has made it difficult for him to be consistent. I really hope he has a good run at it this year as a key forward.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I'm actually starting to think you're not keen on Bruce.

He's no Matty Suckling that's for sure.

[westbulldog]

Why would we want Naughton in the backline when we have Gardner there ?:)

[MrMahatma]

I will never understand why anyone would think moving the most dynamic forward I have seen playing for Footscray in 35+ years into defence. I simply don't get it.

Stick your match-winners in the forward half. He's probably played < 30 senior games forward...and has had a couple when he has looked simply unstoppable. U-N-S-T-O-P-P-A-B-L-E.

Kick it to Aaron and get the hell out of the way should be the basis of our game plan.

Couldn’t agree more. It’s not like he’s only “ok” at his best up forward. When he’s on, it’s a freak show.

We need to fix defence but no way our team is better with Naughton down back and Bruce the main man up forward.

Astro needs to sort the set shots out though.

[comrade]

Couldn’t agree more. It’s not like he’s only “ok” at his best up forward. When he’s on, it’s a freak show.

We need to fix defence but no way our team is better with Naughton down back and Bruce the main man up forward.

Astro needs to sort the set shots out though.

He'll never fix his set shots, though. His kicking is what it is, a 50/50 proposition (at best).

[CarnTheScray]

Agree 100%. Naughts to be our long term CHB and Jamarra our forward. Fixes alot but also leaves a bit of an unproven forward line.

Also heard that Naughts wants to play CHB but I don't know the validity of this.

[Happy Days]

Naughton hits a lead against Adelaide that’s probably the best I’ve ever seen. Sprints up into the empty space slightly too early (call an ambulance!), only to double back around and bolt back to the goalsquare to mark a perfect touch pass from Macrae (but not for me!). I can only assume that sorta stuff is why everyone always raves about Carey so much.

He’s a natural. We must persevere with him up forward.

[Mofra]

Given our midfield and the way we've structured up last year, we will play a mid as a high forward and push them up to the contest.
Bont in this would be phenomenal - he plays at the stoppage whenever the ball is in our forward half

[Axe Man]

Agree 100%. Naughts to be our long term CHB and Jamarra our forward. Fixes alot but also leaves a bit of an unproven forward line.

Also heard that Naughts wants to play CHB but I don't know the validity of this.

I find that difficult to believe. He seems to love being the big show in the forward line, has massive swagger when he's on.

[CarnTheScray]

I find that difficult to believe. He seems to love being the big show in the forward line, has massive swagger when he's on.
Had massive swagger wherever he plays, gave it to Daniher as a defender in 2018.

[mjp]

He'll never fix his set shots, though. His kicking is what it is, a 50/50 proposition (at best).

Well, not with an attitude like that he wont!

[bornadog]

He'll never fix his set shots, though. His kicking is what it is, a 50/50 proposition (at best).


Well, not with an attitude like that he wont!

He sits at 59% accuracy. 71% in 2020, but from limited games

[GVGjr]

He sits at 59% accuracy. 71% in 2020, but from limited games

It's not as bad as many might believe

[comrade]

He’s at 59% set shot accuracy or his goal/behind ratio is 59%?

[bornadog]

He’s at 59% set shot accuracy or his goal/behind ratio is 59%?

Goal/Behind ratio

[Axe Man]

It's not as bad as many might believe

Although his action is awkward I think it is quite mechanical and repeatable so I think he can become a fairly reliable set shot.

[bornadog]

He’s at 59% set shot accuracy or his goal/behind ratio is 59%?


Goal/Behind ratio


Although his action is awkward I think it is quite mechanical and repeatable so I think he can become a fairly reliable set shot.

No doubt he has to work on his set shot ratio (which I don't have). Can always improve.

[Axe Man]

He sits at 59% accuracy. 71% in 2020, but from limited games

2020 15.6 from 22 shots (68.2%)

Career 49.34 from 93 shots (52.7%)

That's all shots though, not sure where to find set shot stats. Seems to have been an improvement though, be interesting to see if it continues next year with hopefully a greater volume of shots and goals.

[Topdog]

Because our defence is putrid.

Is our defence really that bad? Most of our issues has been due to the lack of defending in the midfield.

[Rocket Science]

Is our defence really that bad? Most of our issues has been due to the lack of defending in the midfield.

True but the net result's often the same, a wobbly backline under perpetual siege while our forwards rot.

The luxury of seconding Naughts back as things dictate is an enticing one, especially if we can can fashion something that clicks forward of centre given more scope now to utilise Bont & English as targets.

Going to be fascinating charting the Xs and Os of our forward setups in 2021. Doubly so if Jamarra puts himself in the mix.

[Hotdog60]

The only reason we will need a backline is to stop their forwards floating back and keep them honest.
The ball won't make past Centre next year and after we win the flag the AFL will get rid of the 6, 6, 6 rule at ball ups.

[jazzadogs]

Stats insider has a great shot charting tool link (https://www.statsinsider.com.au/afl/shot-charting)

Naughton is going at 59% from 77 set shots. He is around 2 goals less accurate than an average footballer taking shots from the same positions since 2018.

[comrade]

Stats insider has a great shot charting tool link (https://www.statsinsider.com.au/afl/shot-charting)

Naughton is going at 59% from 77 set shots. He is around 2 goals less accurate than an average footballer taking shots from the same positions since 2018.

Yeah I looked at that. Looks like Naughts has been very accurate within 25m (70%+) and has kicked a fair portion of his goals at that range, but his technique breaks down a bit as he gets further out (30-40%).

[Go_Dogs]

Naughton should stay forward - our most likely player and the one who will cause headaches consistently for opposition sides. Also like English spending more time forward - smart on the lead and marking the ball at its peak.

[ledge]

I’m thinking Bont spends more time forward and with JUH, Bruce , schache , I’m sure we can rotate them to best fit against the opposition backs .
I still think Schache has potential, he had one game where he teamed up well with Bruce.
I love Naughton forward but watching his attributes and his run down of players he could be an even better CHB the way he reads the ball.

[DOG GOD]

For mine, Naughton plays back. Sorry if I’m in the minority, but to me he just doesn’t do enough, or involved enough at FF. Yes, he might have the odd game where he’ll pull down 6 contested and kick 4, but he has also shown games of very limited possession. Also, every set shot is heart in mouth stuff. I think he can also use his marking attributes at CHB. He will solidify that back half, and be more involved for longer periods.

[SquirrelGrip]

Naught on provides such an X-Factor up forward that he has to stay there. Sure there might be times to swing him back to save games or be loose in Defence but he is one of the most dynamic forwards in the league.

I may be Robinson Caruso but I think we can see continued improvement from Ryan Gardner to be our lockdown defensive tall. I don’t care if he gets a kick as long as he stops his opponents. His has height, athleticism and if he can follow instructions. Yes, he was slaughtered by Hipwood (and others) but so was Dale Morris at times in his career but learnt from it. If he can become the thinking man’s defender, it adds so much value to our team. We have plenty of others around hike to assist with intercepts (Keats, Wood, Crozier, Corey, even English when in the ruck), skillful line breakers who are dangerous with ball in hand (Daniel, JJ, Williams, Duryea, even Richards if ever played there). Gardner with a big fist and to hand pass to our line breakers could be the missing link. A Dale Morris-light, if you will.

[bornadog]

It's been a great discussion so far and a real dilemma for the match committee on what they do in 2021 for the key backs.

On a personal note (Yes Jeemak), I prefer to keep Naughton at Full forward. Full forwards like him come once in a generation and he really looks the goods. He needs to learn more of the craft as his running patterns are not great, plus he is constantly trying to take the screamer, when he should be leading out and finding some space.

I am hoping Gardner or Lewis Young really improve next year,especially Lew as we gave him the number 2 for a reason - he showed some great potential in year one, but hasn't improved alot since.

[Twodogs]

I will never understand why anyone would think moving the most dynamic forward I have seen playing for Footscray in 35+ years into defence. I simply don't get it.

Stick your match-winners in the forward half. He's probably played < 30 senior games forward...and has had a couple when he has looked simply unstoppable. U-N-S-T-O-P-P-A-B-L-E.

Kick it to Aaron and get the hell out of the way should be the basis of our game plan.

Yep. Long bombs to Naughts.

[Ghost Dog]

Yep. Long bombs to Naughts.

Ah yes. I am going to watch the Astronaught bags against Richmond right now.
He is really the most dynamic forward we have had since Chris Grant ( apologies to Barry Hall, who shouldn't be overlooked. Improved our side significantly ).

[Danjul]

Yep. Long bombs to Naughts.
I was hoping that we had seen the last of the long bombs into the forward line.

Look at the elimination final- over 50 inside 50s for 9 goals (many from free kicks).

Numerous times this year we were beaten by inferior players who used foot skills to make a better team.

This part of our game strategy has been an unmitigated disaster.

[jeemak]

I was hoping that we had seen the last of the long bombs into the forward line.

Look at the elimination final- over 50 inside 50s for 9 goals (many from free kicks).

Numerous times this year we were beaten by inferior players who used foot skills to make a better team.

This part of our game strategy has been an unmitigated disaster.

Even though it's not part of our game strategy and we rank high for marks inside fifty?

[Twodogs]

Ah yes. I am going to watch the Astronaught bags against Richmond right now.
He is really the most dynamic forward we have had since Chris Grant ( apologies to Barry Hall, who shouldn't be overlooked. Improved our side significantly ).

It would have been handy getting Barry a couple of years earlier. At least one of the preliminary finals over the 2008-10 period may have turned out differently.


I was hoping that we had seen the last of the long bombs into the forward line.

Look at the elimination final- over 50 inside 50s for 9 goals (many from free kicks).

Numerous times this year we were beaten by inferior players who used foot skills to make a better team.

This part of our game strategy has been an unmitigated disaster.

There's long bombs and long bombs though. There's the get out option where the ball carrier is under pressure or has no hit up option so just unloads into space in the forward 50 and then there's the long bomb to your teammate's advantage when you sit it on his head and let the defender worry about being outmarked or give the free away for chopping the arms of pushing his opponent out of the contest.

If we have a tall like Naughton and a teammate like Bruce who is happy to help make space and take defenders wide with constant leads for him then the long bomb to advantage is a good option for us.

[Axe Man]

I think a pertinent question to ask ourselves in this debate is when the huddle breaks up prior to the first bounce and the players jog to their positions, where would the opposition hope Naughts jogs to? I reckon they would breathe a sigh of relief if he headed to the backline.

[Danjul]

Even though it's not part of our game strategy and we rank high for marks inside fifty?
In the elimination final Wallis took 1 mark, Bruce took 1 ( and if I remember correctly it was on the backline). Naughton had 1 possession in the first 3 quarters. Players who are in the team to kick goals.

50 entries - only 9 goals.
Long bombs didn’t work and cost us an important win.

Against Carlton over 50 entries got only 7 goals, and 2 were by Vander

Taking marks against bottom sides doesn’t mean much, and many of the marks (Hunter, for example, led to kicks which failed to make the distance).

we need far greater precision with our forward entries next year so we can defeat top sides.

[bornadog]

we need far greater precision with our forward entries next year so we can defeat top sides.

This is not one of our issues, as we are ranked in top 3 for marks inside 50. The issue is converting them to goals.

[jeemak]

In the elimination final Wallis took 1 mark, Bruce took 1 ( and if I remember correctly it was on the backline). Naughton had 1 possession in the first 3 quarters. Players who are in the team to kick goals.

50 entries - only 9 goals.
Long bombs didn’t work and cost us an important win.

Against Carlton over 50 entries got only 7 goals, and 2 were by Vander

Taking marks against bottom sides doesn’t mean much, and many of the marks (Hunter, for example, led to kicks which failed to make the distance).

we need far greater precision with our forward entries next year so we can defeat top sides.

I guess what I'm saying is bombing's not the strategy, it's the players not responding to what the other team is doing defencively and around the footy and reverting to careless instead of considered ball movement and entry methods. When we have the game on our terms for long periods of time our movement inside fifty is much better.

We need to find a way to work around that, and part of that will be to use a long bail out from time to time but it can't be our only go-to. We also need to get good at controlling the tempo of the game and spreading the defence.

You don't need to keep quoting stats at us. We all watched the same games that you did and we've seen the stats too.

[Danjul]

It

If we have a tall like Naughton and a teammate like Bruce who is happy to help make space and take defenders wide with constant leads for him then the long bomb to advantage is a good option for us.

This Season I saw Bruce spoil Naughton, West and Gowers spoil Bruce, our players spoil English both forward and back.

Your statement is a wish list, I hope it becomes a reality.