Rating our list 2020 Josh Schache 13

[Hotdog60]

Well number 5 is back so we'll continue on:D. Anyway the list rating still goes on as we continue to evaluate each player on our list starting with the highest number Lin Jong down to Matthew Suckling.
The poll will run for a week and when your post in the poll if you can give a reason on your thoughts so we can share your insights.
At the end we'll see how our list looks in the eyes of WOOF members.

[Hotdog60]

A few stats:
Age : 23
Height: 199cm
Weight: 94Kg
Games: 56

Josh Schache joined the Western Bulldogs as part of a deadline deal in the 2017 NAB AFL Trade Period, after the Club sent picks 25 and 40 to the Brisbane Lions in exchange for the 20-year old key forward. A highly-touted junior, Schache joined the Bulldogs after 27 games and two seasons at the Lions after he was taken with the second overall pick at the 2015 NAB AFL Draft. The former Murray Bushranger won the Larke Medal as the best player in Division 1 of the 2015 NAB AFL Under-18 championships, on the back of kicking 24 goals across the tournament. After settling back in Victoria, Schache has worked to establish himself as a strong forward option for the emerging Bulldogs attack. Schache played 10 of the last 11 games of the 2019 AFL Premiership Season, including making his AFL Finals debut. Schache has inked a contract extension in November, 2019 to ensure he remains at VU Whitten Oval until at least the end of 2022.

LINK (https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/players/883/josh-schache)

[Hotdog60]

I like Josh but I marked him at VFL because I think he just lacks consistency and just doesn't get involved enough.
May be modern football doesn't suit him as he reminds me of a skinny Dunstall and if he was leading out of the box with a midfield that looks for him he could prosper.

[hujsh]

He surely can be AFL quality. Not sure what the conditions are to unlock that though. It it purely on him and his mentality? Does the coaching need to do something to allow for him to play consistently at a level appropriate for his talent? Tough one to answer. Right now he's in no-mans land.

[DOG GOD]

It’s simple. MC wants him to be more desperate and physical. If he can’t, then he’s playing VFL until he’s out of contract.

[1eyedog]

Wouldn't mind seeing him get an Ayce Cordy six week window at half forward.

[Sedat]

Fairly or otherwise, he will struggle to get a look-in behind Bruce. Clearly he showed better synergy up forward with Naughts in late 2019 than Bruce did in 2020.

He needs to get crazy fit to be able to run and repeat effort up and down the arcs - that is well and truly in his control. He also needs to become so much more aggressive and competitive in marking contests - I'm not confident he has this in his demeanor to be able to do this. If he can't drastically improve both aspects, his AFL career is done at the end of this contract.

[GVGjr]

I think he has the required skills and ability to be a regular and effective senior player. I still rate his potential but he needs to become a hungry for the football player and be harder at the man

It's up to Josh to lift his intensity now

[bornadog]

I think everyone has summed him up pretty well. One thing I can say is he is a beautiful set shot kick at goal.

[azabob]

For the love of the fans Josh, show some urgency, show some desire for physical contest at the man, at the ball and at the contest.

Has all the tools to make it he just needs to show some damn urgency.

[Happy Days]

Yeah at the end of 2018 I was all the way in, but I’m ready to move on. I’ve got a Jamarra now.

[Ghost Dog]

Break out year for Josh. I'm calling it. Leading goal kicker 2021.

[jeemak]

I want him to get bigger and stronger, so he can help out in the ruck from the year after next as Martin winds his career down.

With Naughton and JUH as our long term forwards, I only see a role as a forward who can help out in the ruck for Josh long term with our club.

Has a lot of talent, just needs to find a way to match that with some aggression and authority within a game.

[1eyedog]

Tbh I thought he was crashing packs and bringing the ball to ground in 2019.

[azabob]

Tbh I thought he was crashing packs and bringing the ball to ground in 2019.

Tbh in 2020 he wasn’t.

[Danjul]

Tbh in 2020 he wasn’t.
To be fair, he had a good game against North including a couple of goals. Actually a better game than a dozen of Bruce’s.

Benched at half time in the rain with 2 possessions in his next game and never seen again.

Didn’t get much time to show anything.

For comparison: when Bruce got 2 possessions in a whole game he was selected the following week.

[GVGjr]

To be fair, he had a good game against North including a couple of goals. Actually a better game than a dozen of Bruce’s.

Benched at half time in the rain with 2 possessions in his next game and never seen again.

Didn’t get much time to show anything.

For comparison: when Bruce got 2 possessions in a whole game he was selected the following week.

Thanks BJ, Schache should never have been selected for that game, as for Bruce it was an awful season from him and it must place some questions if he was just so content in knowing he had a good long term deal and didn't feel motivated to perform

Whatever credits he had in the bank when he arrived at the club have been spent and in fact he owes us a great 2021 season
If he appears to be half arsed again we need to be prepared to drop him for an extended period

[jazzadogs]

A lot of people are putting JUH in their round one teams. Assuming that he isn't ready to step straight in to our senior squad, I see Schache as the perfect replacement for him in the short term.

I am a big fan of his work on the lead, marking and kicking (field and goal). He has a lot of AFL quality traits, and showed in 2019 that when he is shown trust and offered continuity he can be an important player. He didn't get that in 2020, through a combination of injury, poor training habits and lack of trust from the coaches.

He's definitely AFL quality, but I'm not sure if he will get a chance to show that with us.

[Happy Days]

We still doing this “Schache can’t play in the wet” stuff? His best two games in 2019 were in the wet, one in the middle of a pseudo hurricane. He got benched because he gave up, just like he did against Collingwood.

[Danjul]

We still doing this “Schache can’t play in the wet” stuff? His best two games in 2019 were in the wet, one in the middle of a pseudo hurricane. He got benched because he gave up, just like he did against Collingwood.
I don’t believe Schache gave up.

I know this will get me excommunicated but

neither Naughton nor Bruce were benched in the final and both were useless well beyond halftime and in almost perfect conditions.

And Naughton ( after 1 possession to 3/4 time ??) went on to have a good last quarter.

personally I don’t care if Schache never plays again. It is not about him. It is the double standard I find distasteful.

[GVGjr]

We still doing this “Schache can’t play in the wet” stuff? His best two games in 2019 were in the wet, one in the middle of a pseudo hurricane. He got benched because he gave up, just like he did against Collingwood.

We went into the game top heavy, Schache was the obvious one that shouldn't have played and that being said he was benched at half time. and never got another chance. If there are question marks on his commitment we should have worked overtime to find him a home during the trade period

I'd hate to give up on a very talented player and it's why I'd like to see him given an extended run to prove himself

[Bulldog Joe]

I believe Schache has the ability. He does need to bring intent.

Watching Naughton and he really attacks the ball in the air, while Schache seems unsure if he should even attempt to go at all.

It is time he found some aggression for the contest. Find that and he can be a very good player, otherwise he will soon be just a spectator.

[bornadog]

I believe Schache has the ability. He does need to bring intent.

Watching Naughton and he really attacks the ball in the air, while Schache seems unsure if he should even attempt to go at all.

It is time he found some aggression for the contest. Find that and he can be a very good player, otherwise he will soon be just a spectator.

We can get the Proud Boys to help him with an initiation on aggression

https://www.reddit.com/r/JoeBiden/comments/jubl41/its_a_proud_boys_initiation_try_not_to_laugh/

[bulldogtragic]

If someone was to cut him some slack, they’d say:

- He was drafted at Pick 2
- He showed some good early signs
- He developed a psychological condition in Brisbane (home sickness)
- He quit, emptied his locker and drove back to Victoria
- Bulldogs traded for him
- In his first 27 games for us, he kicked 41.19 (inc. a match winning last qtr against Hawthorn last year)
- Bulldogs re-signed him
- This year he was forced to live back into QLD away from family which saw his form drop badly at Brisbane
- His form predictably dropped
- He was not traded and no credible suggestions he would.
- He’s back home, around family
- He will spend summer with Naughton, last years big trade (Bruce) & the exciting new pup in JUH, with healthy competition to get himself selected week to week which is exactly what he wants to happen

[hujsh]

That's a fair point BT. Forgot about the homesickness aspect which may have impacted his mental condition this year (also pretty taxing times all round in 2020)

[bulldogtragic]

That's a fair point BT. Forgot about the homesickness aspect which may have impacted his mental condition this year (also pretty taxing times all round in 2020)

I know a thing or two about PTSD and Post Traumatic Stress. If his time in Brisbane was as bad/traumatic for him as I’ve heard it was before joining us, going back up to live in QLD without family, again, living out and exposure to those thoughts, feelings and emotions could give rise to some degree of PTS in addition to home sickness. If even a very, very mild case, that’s enough to impact a professional athlete. I don’t know if it did or didn’t occur, but I myself would want to be 100% certain it didn’t occur before making any conclusions against the kid with regard to his season in the bubble. I think it’s worth considering at a minimum.

[The Adelaide Connection]

If someone was to cut him some slack, they’d say:

- He was drafted at Pick 2
- He showed some good early signs
- He developed a psychological condition in Brisbane (home sickness)
- He quit, emptied his locker and drove back to Victoria
- Bulldogs traded for him
- In his first 27 games for us, he kicked 41.19 (inc. a match winning last qtr against Hawthorn last year)
- Bulldogs re-signed him
- This year he was forced to live back into QLD away from family which saw his form drop badly at Brisbane
- His form predictably dropped
- He was not traded and no credible suggestions he would.
- He’s back home, around family
- He will spend summer with Naughton, last years big trade (Bruce) & the exciting new pup in JUH, with healthy competition to get himself selected week to week which is exactly what he wants to happen

The other huge anomaly those out of the AFL team faced was a lack of Footscray footy. Playing 15 a side games (sometimes in makeshift roles in patchwork teams) can't have been ideal. Would key position types find this more difficult than midfielders?

The other side of this is how seriously did the MC take the form of players from these games? Seemed like players were doing all the right things at times and still not getting a look (well, from the little crumbs of information we found out anyways).

[Vred]

If someone was to cut him some slack, they’d say:

- He was drafted at Pick 2
- He showed some good early signs
- He developed a psychological condition in Brisbane (home sickness)
- He quit, emptied his locker and drove back to Victoria
- Bulldogs traded for him
- In his first 27 games for us, he kicked 41.19 (inc. a match winning last qtr against Hawthorn last year)
- Bulldogs re-signed him
- This year he was forced to live back into QLD away from family which saw his form drop badly at Brisbane
- His form predictably dropped
- He was not traded and no credible suggestions he would.
- He’s back home, around family
- He will spend summer with Naughton, last years big trade (Bruce) & the exciting new pup in JUH, with healthy competition to get himself selected week to week which is exactly what he wants to happen

Never thought about it like this. Fingers crossed he can smash it next season.

[w3design]

Schache has always had a tendency to pick and choose when to hit a pack hard in a marking contest. Would be great to pair him up with Steph Martin this preseason. He might be able to teach how to develop a more physical side to his game.

[Danjul]

Schache has always had a tendency to pick and choose when to hit a pack hard in a marking contest. Would be great to pair him up with Steph Martin this preseason. He might be able to teach how to develop a more physical side to his game.
Good idea. Schache has a weakness synchronising upper body balance and high incoming ball movement. All successful ruckmen have it, and if Martin can help then the Dogs will get a huge boost.

[DOG GOD]

If the MC don’t want to play you for whatever reason, then you simply don’t play. I have grave fear for Josh next year, unfortunately, because he has good skills and is an elite kick.

[Dancin' Douggy]

I absolutely have the same narrative running in my head. And, also, wasn't he injured for most of the season after his last game? I I'm sure I saw his name on the injury list most weeks. Something unspectacular but persistent.
If someone was to cut him some slack, they’d say:

- He was drafted at Pick 2
- He showed some good early signs
- He developed a psychological condition in Brisbane (home sickness)
- He quit, emptied his locker and drove back to Victoria
- Bulldogs traded for him
- In his first 27 games for us, he kicked 41.19 (inc. a match winning last qtr against Hawthorn last year)
- Bulldogs re-signed him
- This year he was forced to live back into QLD away from family which saw his form drop badly at Brisbane
- His form predictably dropped
- He was not traded and no credible suggestions he would.
- He’s back home, around family
- He will spend summer with Naughton, last years big trade (Bruce) & the exciting new pup in JUH, with healthy competition to get himself selected week to week which is exactly what he wants to happen

[SquirrelGrip]

The upside of Josh is high, he could certainly be our version of Hipwood if it comes together. I get the negativity from many but I’m also on the “cut him some slack” team. He may not ever bring the goods, but the dice roll is worth it. Last year was a particularly difficult year off field for Josh.

[GVGjr]

Is it time for Josh to train with the defenders and see if he can lift his work rate and intensity?

[The Underdog]

I absolutely have the same narrative running in my head. And, also, wasn't he injured for most of the season after his last game? I I'm sure I saw his name on the injury list most weeks. Something unspectacular but persistent.

It seems to be the point that is missed a lot. He was unavailable for selection for about half the season which can’t have helped him.
He has plenty of talent and an obvious deficiency which I’m not sure he can overcome. I hope he can get a really strongly pre-season in.

[bornadog]

Is it time for Josh to train with the defenders and see if he can lift his work rate and intensity?

He once said that he had never played in the backline, so maybe he needs to reinvent himself and give it a go. It would also help his forward craft if it doesn't totally work out.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Is it time for Josh to train with the defenders and see if he can lift his work rate and intensity?

I'm not sure his game translates.

Liam Jones always attacked the ball in flight, he just couldn't read it in the air and constantly ran under it. Schache's lack of intensity would likely only be emphasized as a KPD.

I think that's a last ditch effort to save his career and we shouldn't be at that point yet. Hasn't he got 2 years left on a deal? It's something I'd look at in 12 months if he still hasn't progressed.

[Mofra]

Is it time for Josh to train with the defenders and see if he can lift his work rate and intensity?
Liam Jones is quick off the mark and has a huge spring.
Schache has a huge tank and running workrate, but isn't a contested player.

I see them as completely different types.

Schache can be an AFL quality player, but I just don't think he fits in our system. He plays like Ben Brown lite, and despite kicking more goals than anybody else from 2017-19 he had one genuine suitor who traded him in for a second rounder. That's telling.

[w3design]

I'm not sure his game translates.

Liam Jones always attacked the ball in flight, he just couldn't read it in the air and constantly ran under it. Schache's lack of intensity would likely only be emphasized as a KPD.

I think that's a last ditch effort to save his career and we shouldn't be at that point yet. Hasn't he got 2 years left on a deal? It's something I'd look at in 12 months if he still hasn't progressed.

Schache as KPD makes perfect sense. If he struggles to naturally attack marking contests put him in players that do. Many a CHF have learnt their craft by going back and being taught by their opponent where and how to lead and how to attack a contest. Anthony Rocca and Sam Reid are a couple that spring to mind.

[Danjul]

We got Bruce to fill the role of a strong marking goal kicking forward and gave him 18 games.

Schache got 1 full game - 11 possessions, 3 marks, 2 goals.

Bruce had 13 games with less possessions, 10 games with less marks (and 2 with equal marks), 15 games with less goals.

But Schache had a bad game with only 2 possessions in a half of footy you all shout in unison. Well, Bruce had 2 in a whole game and was first name written in the team sheet the following week.

Personally I have never had a problem with Schache , I think he is a good player and would like to see the club recruit someone who is smart enough to use him properly. The resulting 40 goals in 2021 would generate some excitement.

[SonofScray]

Schache is a far superior player than Bruce.

He was tarred early as soft and no matter what he produces, that mud sticks. Just play to his strengths and the scoreboard ticks over. We saw what actual value the fetish we have for aggression and crashing packs actually has. SFA. It's like "kick it to the top of the square" and playing the percentages, sounds good, but it's not actually a percentage play. Doesn't work but just hangs around as a thing in footy.

More left field take:


A victim of a media cohort who project their own insecurities onto others, celebrate toxic masculinity and a game which heavily polices the maintenance of an ideal masculine identity. See: Charlie Dixon circle jerk. Slight side step, given this next example includes a highly celebrated player, but think Renee Kink/Quentin Lynch and Robbie Flower in a school yard pick.

[EasternWest]

Just play to his strengths and the scoreboard ticks over.

This is my take too. He's valuable to us BECAUSE he's not going to get in the way of the high flyers. His work rate is great, he's an excellent kick and in my opinion we simply look better when he's playing.

He'll never have Clay Smith's attitude, but his strengths are an area that we are weak in IMO.

I haven't any confidence that he'll play - I think Beveridge just doesn't like him - but I hope I'm wrong.

[josie]

Heartening to read some agree with my sentiments. Hope Josh has plenty of opportunities next year to blossom for senior team. Same for Lewis Young.

[Sedat]

This is my take too. He's valuable to us BECAUSE he's not going to get in the way of the high flyers. His work rate is great, he's an excellent kick and in my opinion we simply look better when he's playing.

He'll never have Clay Smith's attitude, but his strengths are an area that we are weak in IMO.

I haven't any confidence that he'll play - I think Beveridge just doesn't like him - but I hope I'm wrong.
I worry about his absolute competitiveness to want to win every single contest he is involved in, but there's absolutely no doubt he worked much better in sync with Naughts up forward in 2019 than Bruce did in 2020.

[Ghost Dog]

Schache is a far superior player than Bruce.

He was tarred early as soft and no matter what he produces, that mud sticks. Just play to his strengths and the scoreboard ticks over. We saw what actual value the fetish we have for aggression and crashing packs actually has. SFA. It's like "kick it to the top of the square" and playing the percentages, sounds good, but it's not actually a percentage play. Doesn't work but just hangs around as a thing in footy.

More left field take:


A victim of a media cohort who project their own insecurities onto others, celebrate toxic masculinity and a game which heavily polices the maintenance of an ideal masculine identity. See: Charlie Dixon circle jerk. Slight side step, given this next example includes a highly celebrated player, but think Renee Kink/Quentin Lynch and Robbie Flower in a school yard pick.

This is a great post. I've been watching all of the Open Mike series. It's really shocking to remember how violent parts of the game has been for a long time. And pretty much celebrated.

[DOG GOD]

This is my take too. He's valuable to us BECAUSE he's not going to get in the way of the high flyers. His work rate is great, he's an excellent kick and in my opinion we simply look better when he's playing.

He'll never have Clay Smith's attitude, but his strengths are an area that we are weak in IMO.

I haven't any confidence that he'll play - I think Beveridge just doesn't like him - but I hope I'm wrong.

Agree, I also think Bevo either doesn’t like him, or doesn’t rate him. Either way, his papers have been stamped. I expected someone like North or Essendon look into him as a possible trade, but obviously no interest anywhere, and that for a young KPF (where some teams are lucky to have 1), is concerning. I said in another post, I’d be surprised if he played more than 6 games in 2021.

[EasternWest]

I worry about his absolute competitiveness to want to win every single contest he is involved in, but there's absolutely no doubt he worked much better in sync with Naughts up forward in 2019 than Bruce did in 2020.

Me too, although competitiveness can come in different shapes. His ability to gut run is something that I think is underrated.

I'd like if he was better in the contest that's for sure, but maybe we have to accept he is what he is in that field.

[Danjul]

Me too, although competitiveness can come in different shapes. His ability to gut run is something that I think is underrated.

I'd like if he was better in the contest that's for sure, but maybe we have to accept he is what he is in that field.

In 2018 Hawthorn was a strong team and finished 4th. The Dogs were 13th, having been lower all season.

After round 1 in 2019 the Hawks were 4th.

After round two the Hawks were 9th. Unfortunately they were not able to subdue Schache. He got 4 goals and gave a couple away. I thought he was close to best on ground.

That weekend the Dogs were 4th on the ladder- they have only been in the top 4 twice in the 4 years since the premiership.

Time to let Schache play his natural game, he will have some bad games but who cares. He has been a very reliable forward.

[Bulldog Joe]

Me too, although competitiveness can come in different shapes. His ability to gut run is something that I think is underrated.

I'd like if he was better in the contest that's for sure, but maybe we have to accept he is what he is in that field.

If played to his strengths he is getting the ball on the lead and virtually uncontested.

Why don't we build a game plan to utilise the strengths on the list.

[EasternWest]

In 2018 Hawthorn was a strong team and finished 4th. The Dogs were 13th, having been lower all season.

After round 1 in 2019 the Hawks were 4th.

After round two the Hawks were 9th. Unfortunately they were not able to subdue Schache. He got 4 goals and gave a couple away. I thought he was close to best on ground.

That weekend the Dogs were 4th on the ladder- they have only been in the top 4 twice in the 4 years since the premiership.

Time to let Schache play his natural game, he will have some bad games but who cares. He has been a very reliable forward.

Not me that needs convincing.


If played to his strengths he is getting the ball on the lead and virtually uncontested.

Why don't we build a game plan to utilise the strengths on the list.

Great point.

[bornadog]

Not me that needs convincing.



Great point.

Thank me later - a suggestion for your new avatar

https://images.s.7news.com.au/publication/C-697807/18c7f7671403e7b2f68efb2664df2bc4cedb2fba-16x9-x0y0w1304h734.png?imwidth=650&impolicy=sevennews_v2

[EasternWest]

Thank me later - a suggestion for your new avatar

https://images.s.7news.com.au/publication/C-697807/18c7f7671403e7b2f68efb2664df2bc4cedb2fba-16x9-x0y0w1304h734.png?imwidth=650&impolicy=sevennews_v2

What makes you think I'm ever changing my avatar?

Besides, if I was going a Schache avatar I'd be borrowing The Pie Man's.

[Happy Days]

Thank me later - a suggestion for your new avatar

https://images.s.7news.com.au/publication/C-697807/18c7f7671403e7b2f68efb2664df2bc4cedb2fba-16x9-x0y0w1304h734.png?imwidth=650&impolicy=sevennews_v2

Any surer thing than Schache getting outbodied and Bruce dropping the mark there?

[Danjul]

Any surer thing than Schache getting outbodied and Bruce dropping the mark there?
Why are the coaches allowing this to pass for ‘training’?

Training is supposed to contain an element called improvement.

Everyone can see the problem clearly. This should have been fixed years ago. People are not doing their job.

[jeemak]

Why are the coaches allowing this to pass for ‘training’?

Training is supposed to contain an element called improvement.

Everyone can see the problem clearly. This should have been fixed years ago. People are not doing their job.

Enlighten us?

[bornadog]

What makes you think I'm ever changing my avatar?


True, I would keep it

[bornadog]

double

[jeemak]

double

Post of the day.

[jeemak]

There's probably a good reason why we don't forge an entire forward structure to suit the way Schache plays, possibly much like there's a reason why we got him on the cheap and why nobody acquired him from us in the same vein this most recent trading period.

He is a nice player, with good finishing skills. He clearly isn't fit or strong enough to be an impact forward, even if he can run a long way lots and lots even though we've never really seen that from him.......apart from those much fabled time to time moments.

In his case he is the one who needs to get bigger and stronger so he can do things other than look good running by himself. I mean have a look at him, he's tiny. His shoulders and the rest of his body are a complete disgrace for someone who has been in the system for as long as he has.

Work hard Josh. Your career depends on it.

[jeemak]

What makes you think I'm ever changing my avatar?

Besides, if I was going a Schache avatar I'd be borrowing The Pie Man's.

Is TPMs avatar Schache?

[EasternWest]

Is TPMs avatar Schache?

https://i.postimg.cc/G3z3ht58/Screenshot-20201125-083959.png (https://postimg.cc/23bN0kmr)

[jeemak]

I've been too embarrassed to ask...........