Welcome Jamarra Ugle-Hagan to the Western Bulldogs

[azabob]

Thank you very much.

Any idea who #12 is?

Kym Koster? Greg Epplestun?

Why did Epplestun go to north?

[Twodogs]

Kym Koster? Greg Epplestun?

Why did Epplestun go to north?

From memory Terry Wheeler wanted to play a more attacking style and didn't really rate purely defensive players like Eppelstun.

He only played one game with us in 1991 and got a Brownlow vote! He was injured in his only game for North and was replaced by a kid making his debut called Glenn Archer.

[angelopetraglia]

Robbo

A tale of two draftees

Jamarra Ugle-Hagan and Ollie Henry were drafted No. 1 and No. 17 in the 2020 national draft. One of them, Ugle-Hagan, is expected to re-sign with the Bulldogs for two years at an estimated $1 million a season. Other clubs, it is said, are offering in the vicinity of $1.2 million over 10 years. Henry, who was traded from Collingwood to Geelong at the end of 2022, is in the second season of a three-year deal at an estimated $450,000 a season. Now, look at their numbers.

Henry is either grossly underpaid or Ugle-Hagan will be grossly overpaid. I think it’s the latter. Off the top of the head, Tom Boyd was paid $1 million a year after just nine games of footy. The Dogs once again will pay a ridiculous amount of money for potential. Ugle-Hagan has talent but so does Henry. The numbers tell us that. And it’s not how you kick goals, it’s as long as you kick goals. And Ugle-Hagan and his key forward comrade Aaron Naughton aren’t doing that. Ugle-Hagan has six goals from four games and Naughton has four goals from four games, although it must be noted Naughton is playing higher and on Saturday night had 15 disposals and took six marks. Still, it’s 10 goals from the pair. At Carlton, Charlie Curnow and Harry McKay have kicked 24 goals. At Geelong, Tom Hawkins and Jeremy Cameron have kicked 17 goals, as have Joe Daniher and Eric Hipwood at Brisbane.

[bornadog]

Robbo

A tale of two draftees

Jamarra Ugle-Hagan and Ollie Henry were drafted No. 1 and No. 17 in the 2020 national draft. One of them, Ugle-Hagan, is expected to re-sign with the Bulldogs for two years at an estimated $1 million a season. Other clubs, it is said, are offering in the vicinity of $1.2 million over 10 years. Henry, who was traded from Collingwood to Geelong at the end of 2022, is in the second season of a three-year deal at an estimated $450,000 a season. Now, look at their numbers.

Henry is either grossly underpaid or Ugle-Hagan will be grossly overpaid. I think it’s the latter. Off the top of the head, Tom Boyd was paid $1 million a year after just nine games of footy. The Dogs once again will pay a ridiculous amount of money for potential. Ugle-Hagan has talent but so does Henry. The numbers tell us that. And it’s not how you kick goals, it’s as long as you kick goals. And Ugle-Hagan and his key forward comrade Aaron Naughton aren’t doing that. Ugle-Hagan has six goals from four games and Naughton has four goals from four games, although it must be noted Naughton is playing higher and on Saturday night had 15 disposals and took six marks. Still, it’s 10 goals from the pair. At Carlton, Charlie Curnow and Harry McKay have kicked 24 goals. At Geelong, Tom Hawkins and Jeremy Cameron have kicked 17 goals, as have Joe Daniher and Eric Hipwood at Brisbane.

Robbo is a dickhead - that is all I am saying

[bulldogtragic]

Robbo is a dickhead - that is all I am saying

He may be. But addressing the argument and not the man. What’s his argument’s fatal flaws?

[Grantysghost]

He may be. But addressing the argument and not the man. What’s his argument’s fatal flaws?

They are very different players. Not sure he's comparing apples w apples.

Can guarantee you other clubs would pay Marra more.

[angelopetraglia]

Marra 197cm v Henry 189cm

Matches 49 v 51
Dispsoals 9.9 v 9.4
Marks 4.5 v 3.6
Goals 1.3 v 1.5
Behinds 1.2 v 0.9

[angelopetraglia]

Very different players. Marra has qualities and upside that Henry doesn't have. In particular that abililty to mark the ball in a pack and on the lead at the high point that looks so dangerous.

But he does have a point. It is still on potential, not on what each player has actually produced so far. Agree, clubs would all pay more for Marra, but they would be doing that on potential. Not on actual results.

[mighty_west]

Robbo has a point but in saying that, Henry doesn't get the number 1 or 2 defender each week where's Marra does especially now with Naughton playing up the ground, Henry get's protected from 2 of the best most experienced power forwards in the game, Naughton would only be starting to enter his prime, the Geelong pair have been living there for years so Jamarra doesn't have that luxury.

The point on wages, Henry was basically gifted from the Pies so Geelong aren't pressured what so ever to offer Henry huge money or long term deals where's with Naughton, other clubs were willing to offer Millions over 10 years or so if those reports were true about Swans and West Coast, as Robbo states other clubs are willing to offer a similar deal to Jamarra putting pressure on our club to show him the money basically, it kind of ties our hands to some extent, there is no even playing field there with the comparisons.

[jeemak]

What does Robbo argue if we take potential out of it, only offer JUH $650K, and lose him?

He writes articles stating we're dickheads for not ponying up the cash required to keep someone who could be a generational talent.

Big guys take time, JUH is a big guy, Henry is a medium.

[angelopetraglia]

What does Robbo argue if we take potential out of it, only offer JUH $650K, and lose him?

He writes articles stating we're dickheads for not ponying up the cash required to keep someone who could be a generational talent.

Big guys take time, JUH is a big guy, Henry is a medium.

Agree with all of that.

However, the market has shifted in the last few years. I don't recall you having to pay large wages for players who had the potential to be a generational talent. You paid for players who showed they were a generational talent. The market has moved, clubs are willing to make riskier moves to steal talent away from other clubs. We have to move with the market.

[Scorlibo]

Ugle-Hagan's upwards trajectory is far more assured than was Tom Boyd's, and it's not us but other suitors that are driving the price of his signature, so it's an unfair comparison. He's not just a promising young player but seemingly a good young person. Happy to back him in with a long term deal on good money.

However we should be talking about Jamarra's poor start to the year. After being close to our best in a bad team outing in Round 1, he's really struggled. Bevo bemoaned the quality of his game not being there and that's exactly right. Grubber kicks into the forward line, poor/selfish decisions (kick at goal on non-preferred instead of hitting up Naughton at the top of the square??) and fumbles. He just looks to me like he's trying to do too much and needs to go back to the basics, as he did to some extent in the last quarter against Geelong.

[Happy Days]

That’s such a bad faith argument it’s not even worth engaging with.

[kickit2Koly]

They are very different players. Not sure he's comparing apples w apples.

Can guarantee you other clubs would pay Marra more.

Agree with this, not to mention the fact that Henry is a third and sometimes 4th tall and has 2 Coleman medalists next to him. Marra gets the no1 or 2 defender every week now.

[bornadog]

They are very different players. Not sure he's comparing apples w apples.
Spot on.

[bornadog]

What does Robbo argue if we take potential out of it, only offer JUH $650K, and lose him?

He writes articles stating we're dickheads for not ponying up the cash required to keep someone who could be a generational talent.

Big guys take time, JUH is a big guy, Henry is a medium.

The scathing remarks he made about our club when we went after Tom Boyd, are unforgivable.

I am actually pissed off about the talk on what a player is worth and why they are paid certain amounts etc etc, A talented players salary is worth what the market will pay.

[mjp]

He may be. But addressing the argument and not the man. What?s his argument?s fatal flaws?

There are none.

But whatcha gonna do? We have to pay the price to keep Jamarra because he's one of us.

You can go all moneyball all the time if you like but footy is also about passion and emotion - JUH is one of us and we have watched him grow.

To say that I don't care about how much Henry get's paid or how many goals he kicks is an understatement.

Does any part of my post make sense? Of course not...but we NEED to re-sign Jamarra.

[bulldogtragic]

There are none.

But whatcha gonna do? We have to pay the price to keep Jamarra because he's one of us.

You can go all moneyball all the time if you like but footy is also about passion and emotion - JUH is one of us and we have watched him grow.

To say that I don't care about how much Henry get's paid or how many goals he kicks is an understatement.

Does any part of my post make sense? Of course not...but we NEED to re-sign Jamarra.

I agree, he’s my number one target to re-sign. I was interested more in picking a part the argument made than just to call him names. Realistically, if he signs on for two years at $1M accounting for the cap rises it’s much like the deal Shai Bolton did when he got huge offers to leave. He backed himself in to perform for two more years and drive his price up while being happy at his club. The discussion with Marra needs to be his goal kicking. If he could just tidy that up they’d be less opportunity for articles like this.

[jazzadogs]

He hasn't seemed to be moving as fluidly the last couple of weeks. It feels like he's carrying something, and it looks to be hampering him. I wonder if bringing in Lobb for Marra for a week is an option, to freshen him up.

I was really expecting a breakout season from him.

[1eyedog]

There are none.

But whatcha gonna do? We have to pay the price to keep Jamarra because he's one of us.

You can go all moneyball all the time if you like but footy is also about passion and emotion - JUH is one of us and we have watched him grow.

To say that I don't care about how much Henry get's paid or how many goals he kicks is an understatement.

Does any part of my post make sense? Of course not...but we NEED to re-sign Jamarra.

And this is exactly why Marra needs to pull his head in. He's been at the club a long time, we've nurtured him and he has deep roots so the morally right decision here needs to be an arrangement that is mutually beneficial for club and player. Surely he needs to understand that accepting a reasonable offer to stay helps us financially as a club and gives us the best chance of player retention across the list.

We can't have four or five blokes on a million a season, no team can regardless how much the market has shifted. Sign for two years and if he delivers pay him his 1.2 million.

We'll need to be ensuring Sam Darcy stays at the club long term imo. He's the last Skywalker.

[Dazza]

Love Marra but it's starting to look like last years yips aren't an abberation. Going at 33% again this year. Really needs to improve to at LEAST 50% going forward.

[hujsh]

He hasn't seemed to be moving as fluidly the last couple of weeks. It feels like he's carrying something, and it looks to be hampering him. I wonder if bringing in Lobb for Marra for a week is an option, to freshen him up.

I was really expecting a breakout season from him.

Was it this week that Bevo said Marra was 50/50 to play? Might not be 100% but also he has to get used to playing at not 100% long term and working through that.

[azabob]

Was it this week that Bevo said Marra was 50/50 to play? Might not be 100% but also he has to get used to playing at not 100% long term and working through that.

Forget what Beveridge says... GVGjr was the first to bring it to our attention that Marra was carrying something in his amazing training reports (which 100% was prior to when Bevo put it on the record)

[Scorlibo]

Love Marra but it's starting to look like last years yips aren't an abberation. Going at 33% again this year. Really needs to improve to at LEAST 50% going forward.

Fourth worst shot for goal in the competition at the moment going by expected score.

[ledge]

Fourth worst shot for goal in the competition at the moment going by expected score.

That actually surprised me, I think he is a good set shot, I think it’s the fact he misses from long distance and Angle,
If directly in front or close I would back him ahead of Naughton.
Weightman would be our best though I imagine from all different angles and distance. Darcy has also looked reliable early in his career.

[Scorlibo]

That actually surprised me, I think he is a good set shot, I think it’s the fact he misses from long distance and Angle,
If directly in front or close I would back him ahead of Naughton.
Weightman would be our best though I imagine from all different angles and distance. Darcy has also looked reliable early in his career.

Yes Cody is the rated the fourth best shot

[SonofScray]

That actually surprised me, I think he is a good set shot, I think it’s the fact he misses from long distance and Angle,
If directly in front or close I would back him ahead of Naughton.
Weightman would be our best though I imagine from all different angles and distance. Darcy has also looked reliable early in his career.

Agree with this, a lot of his shots I suspect are low percentage/higher difficulty. He does have that laid back action which looks bad when he misses too.

[Scorlibo]

Agree with this, a lot of his shots I suspect are low percentage/higher difficulty. He does have that laid back action which looks bad when he misses too.

Expected score takes into account the difficulty of the shot, so even given this he's not scoring as well as he should be.

[D Mitchell]

Love Marra but it's starting to look like last years yips aren't an aberration. Going at 33% again this year. Really needs to improve to at LEAST 50% going forward.

2021 ave 1.4 goals per game. 2022 ave 1.1, 2023 ave 1.5. 2024 to date ave 1.5. 2023 included 2 games of 5 goals and 1 of 4 goals, best year. The stats suggest that last year's yips were not an aberration.

[Mofra]

He may be. But addressing the argument and not the man. What?s his argument?s fatal flaws?
The argument is comparing Marra - now copping the no 1 stay at home defender from the opposition - with a hybrid who would be behind Hawkins, Cameron, Miers (best HF in the comp) and Stengle (an outstanding small forward) on the pecking order of who an opposition coach would be looking to stop.

There's a reason the bulldogs aren't the only club lining up a 7 figure deal to keep Marra. Henry is icing, Marra is cake.

[Sedat]

There's a reason the bulldogs aren't the only club lining up a 7 figure deal to keep Marra. Henry is icing, Marra is cake.
All the more reason he needs to be 'the man' (something he looks very comfortable being) and nail the key moments. He fluffed 2 of them in succession early in the last qtr when we were pressing hard - both were not too difficult for an AFL quality player. Geelong then went coast to coast and goaled which gave them a 4 goal buffer which they needed every bit of in the end.

[ledge]

All the more reason he needs to be 'the man' (something he looks very comfortable being) and nail the key moments. He fluffed 2 of them in succession early in the last qtr when we were pressing hard - both were not too difficult for an AFL quality player. Geelong then went coast to coast and goaled which gave them a 4 goal buffer which they needed every bit of in the end.

The one grab Marks he is taking in packs and even on the lead are bloody good, I wonder if it’s a fitness thing when he goes for goal, he moves around a lot and a lot of second and third efforts. He looks stuffed a lot when he has taken a mark. He definitely takes his time when having a shot to get his breath back.

[mjp]

And this is exactly why Marra needs to pull his head in. He's been at the club a long time, we've nurtured him and he has deep roots so the morally right decision here needs to be an arrangement that is mutually beneficial for club and player. Surely he needs to understand that accepting a reasonable offer to stay helps us financially as a club and gives us the best chance of player retention across the list.

We can't have four or five blokes on a million a season, no team can regardless how much the market has shifted. Sign for two years and if he delivers pay him his 1.2 million.

We'll need to be ensuring Sam Darcy stays at the club long term imo. He's the last Skywalker.

Why can't we?

The problem isn't the money or the players...the problem is always giving the money to the WRONG players!!

[Mofra]

And this is exactly why Marra needs to pull his head in. He's been at the club a long time, we've nurtured him and he has deep roots so the morally right decision here needs to be an arrangement that is mutually beneficial for club and player. Surely he needs to understand that accepting a reasonable offer to stay helps us financially as a club and gives us the best chance of player retention across the list.

We can't have four or five blokes on a million a season, no team can regardless how much the market has shifted. Sign for two years and if he delivers pay him his 1.2 million.

We'll need to be ensuring Sam Darcy stays at the club long term imo. He's the last Skywalker.
12.4m in 2022 to 17.5m in 2025. The massive TPP increase means most club next year will probably have a few $1m+ players

[GVGjr]

12.4m in 2022 to 17.5m in 2025. The massive TPP increase means most club next year will probably have a few $1m+ players

I'm hoping that the AFL also increases the list sizes for clubs at the end of the 2025 season. Two more players per team before the Devils come on board will get some more AFL ready players available.

[Hotdog60]

I'm hoping that the AFL also increases the list sizes for clubs at the end of the 2025 season. Two more players per team before the Devils come on board will get some more AFL ready players available.

We've put a lot of development and patience to bring two outstanding AFL footballers to great heights in the game but I'm willing to bear the pain of loosing such great players to the new Tasmanian team and I wish Scott and McNeil all the best.

[jeemak]

I'm hoping that the AFL also increases the list sizes for clubs at the end of the 2025 season. Two more players per team before the Devils come on board will get some more AFL ready players available.

Some might say the talent pool is already cooked and list sizes need to be smaller to spread it a bit further.

At the same time they might say to compensate for that, a decrease in game time is needed - particularly if that fits TV broadcast timings to bring in other programming to follow the football at night.

Whatever transpires you can be sure it won't have anything to do with logic or what's actually for the good of the quality and equity of the game.

[hujsh]

Some might say the talent pool is already cooked and list sizes need to be smaller to spread it a bit further.

At the same time they might say to compensate for that, a decrease in game time is needed - particularly if that fits TV broadcast timings to bring in other programming to follow the football at night.

Whatever transpires you can be sure it won't have anything to do with logic or what's actually for the good of the quality and equity of the game.

There are probably blokes out there that would be good if given an opportunity. Essendon ended up finding some when half their list was banned didn't they? AMT? ...The Rest?

[ledge]

There are probably blokes out there that would be good if given an opportunity. Essendon ended up finding some when half their list was banned didn't they? AMT? ...The Rest?

And look how they went and since.

[hujsh]

And look how they went and since.

That's not really the point.

[Dazza]

6 goals from 18 shots. Really really needs to improve his goalkicking.

[Grantysghost]

50 games for the great man this week.

[Rocket Science]

Someone referenced Marra's laconic style with ball in hand which is not an inherently bad thing, he's a such a fluid user when in the mood.

But there's some unearned 'lairiness' creeping into his ball use at times and specifically his field kicking that he needs to iron out. Lazy, over the shoulder stuff and the like, instead of taking the extra second and straightening up that creates problems for teammates and courts turnovers, invariably across half forward which is not where we wanting to be lobbing balls into dispute.

Adore this bloke who's still working it all out, but he needs to respect possession a bit more even if it means taking the boring option that keeps a possession chain going rather than the rush of blood that sees it stream back down the other end.

[bornadog]

https://pbs.twimg.com/card_img/1778402878287388672/YVR4hjgo?format=jpg&name=900x900

[Grantysghost]

Anyone else wondering why we didnt acknowledge Marras milestone on the banner?

I know it's 50 games but even i got a banner in u13s!

[GVGjr]

Anyone else wondering why we didnt acknowledge Marras milestone on the banner?

I know it's 50 games but even i got a banner in u13s!

You played 50 games of U13 footy? How old were you 15/16? :)

It was a bit strange that it wasn't referenced.

[ledge]

I thought he played well last night, his marking has now become exceptional,one hander and another one hander that in my eyes should have been paid he only lost it when he hit the ground. So his goal kicking isn’t that good but I believe it will all come together in the next year or two.
Probably his best game in the marking department in packs and no juggling, like a vice.

[westdog54]

Definitely one of our better players last night. There was only one really bad miss (I say only, when in reality he shouldn't be missing ANY easy ones) but his hands were elite last night and his work rate seems to be at a new level this year.

Gotta get him locked away and soon.

[my plums]

Two years for Marra

[jazzadogs]

Fantastic. Would have loved more than two years, but just glad to have him locked in for a bit longer! (Although already nervous about the offers he'll be getting in two years!)

[josie]

Good news. Hopefully club heads in right direction through 2025/26 so he stays longer.

Onya Marra!!

[kruder]

Keeping his options open, we need to get our shit together.

Rapt to have him I think its wise not taking the massive deal elsewhere yet, he is well off the finished article and this gives him a chance to continue to improve without the pressure of a big move.

I really do think he wants to stay at the dogs longer we just need to make sure the environment is right to take advantage of this elite tall timber and the best player the club has ever produced.

[1eyedog]

Keeping his options open, we need to get our shit together.

Rapt to have him I think its wise not taking the massive deal elsewhere yet, he is well off the finished article and this gives him a chance to continue to improve without the pressure of a big move.

I really do think he wants to stay at the dogs longer we just need to make sure the environment is right to take advantage of this elite tall timber and the best player the club has ever produced.

I didn't think EJ was still playing.

[Dazza]

Great news

[D Mitchell]

Keeping his options open, we need to get our shit together.

Rapt to have him I think its wise not taking the massive deal elsewhere yet, he is well off the finished article and this gives him a chance to continue to improve without the pressure of a big move.

I really do think he wants to stay at the dogs longer we just need to make sure the environment is right to take advantage of this elite tall timber and the best player the club has ever produced.

Bolded bit. The lad's 4th year at the club. He's kicked 71 goals in his first 51 games, a real elite tall timber, Franklin, scored 127 in his first 51. Statistically, he's not much better in his 4th year than in his 2nd year. Each of the last 2 years he's had a couple of games where he's scored up to 5 goals but usually 1 or none. He was particularly poor on Sunday, he's not good enough to come straight back in after a 2 week lay off, during which Lobb had been good, but he was selected. The Club's leaned over backwards. It's the other way 'round, he owes the Club.

[ledge]

Bolded bit. The lad's 4th year at the club. He's kicked 71 goals in his first 51 games, a real elite tall timber, Franklin, scored 127 in his first 51. Statistically, he's not much better in his 4th year than in his 2nd year. Each of the last 2 years he's had a couple of games where he's scored up to 5 goals but usually 1 or none. He was particularly poor on Sunday, he's not good enough to come straight back in after a 2 week lay off, during which Lobb had been good, but he was selected. The Club's leaned over backwards. It's the other way 'round, he owes the Club.

I’m not sure you can compare the two . Jamarra had two of his years he practically couldn’t play due to covid.

[lemmon]

Bolded bit. The lad's 4th year at the club. He's kicked 71 goals in his first 51 games, a real elite tall timber, Franklin, scored 127 in his first 51. Statistically, he's not much better in his 4th year than in his 2nd year. Each of the last 2 years he's had a couple of games where he's scored up to 5 goals but usually 1 or none. He was particularly poor on Sunday, he's not good enough to come straight back in after a 2 week lay off, during which Lobb had been good, but he was selected. The Club's leaned over backwards. It's the other way 'round, he owes the Club.

Speaking more broadly than just the game against the Hawks, we're paying Marra a lot of money over the next two years on potential. I think he probably gets some grace this year, but next year probably has to be 50+ goals to justify a 7-figure contract.

Our hands were tied because of what other clubs were offering, but he really needs to perform.

[ledge]

Speaking more broadly than just the game against the Hawks, we're paying Marra a lot of money over the next two years on potential. I think he probably gets some grace this year, but next year probably has to be 50+ goals to justify a 7-figure contract.

Our hands were tied because of what other clubs were offering, but he really needs to perform.

Maybe if the coaches get together and stop teaching the players to run into each other and actually lead in different directions he will kick 50 plus but if Naughton Darcy, Lobb and English keep leading together like a pack, crowding him and jumping all over him he won’t and that’s not from his lack of trying.

[Rocket Science]

It'd be ace if half of Marra's 2nd efforts lately didn't involve spewing at the umpires or a teammate.

[Danjul]

Maybe if the coaches get together and stop teaching the players to run into each other and actually lead in different directions he will kick 50 plus but if Naughton Darcy, Lobb and English keep leading together like a pack, crowding him and jumping all over him he won?t and that?s not from his lack of trying.
You left out Weightman. His injury came from trying to climb over Lobb and Jackson. Undisciplined and probably cost us the game. And I have seen West in the marking contest instead of crumbing.

[ledge]

You left out Weightman. His injury came from trying to climb over Lobb and Jackson. Undisciplined and probably cost us the game. And I have seen West in the marking contest instead of crumbing.

So there lies the problem. Too many going for the same ball.
Too many mids not lowering eyes and too many forwards leading to the same spot.
Forward pockets thinking they are tall forwards .
Let’s face it all these players are extremely good players but if the game plan is stuffed this is what’s happening.

[D Mitchell]

I’m not sure you can compare the two . Jamarra had two of his years he practically couldn’t play due to covid.
I year, 2021 and how interrupted ? He played 5 senior games, the rest where you'd expect a first year player to be anyway, the VFL. I wasn't comparing, just adding perspective to Kruger's use of the word elite. There's no comparison.

[hujsh]

Bolded bit. The lad's 4th year at the club. He's kicked 71 goals in his first 51 games, a real elite tall timber, Franklin, scored 127 in his first 51. Statistically, he's not much better in his 4th year than in his 2nd year. Each of the last 2 years he's had a couple of games where he's scored up to 5 goals but usually 1 or none. He was particularly poor on Sunday, he's not good enough to come straight back in after a 2 week lay off, during which Lobb had been good, but he was selected. The Club's leaned over backwards. It's the other way 'round, he owes the Club.

Franklin isn't just elite, he was a generational talent. I'm sure there are numerous elite key forwards Jamarra would compare favorably to. One example Curnow in his first 4 years had less goals from more games.

Call for better efforts or whatever but don't attack him for not being as good as Franklin as quickly as Franklin was.

[bulldogtragic]

Franklin isn't just elite, he was a generational talent. I'm sure there are numerous elite key forwards Jamarra would compare favorably to. One example Curnow in his first 4 years had less goals from more games.

Call for better efforts or whatever but don't attack him for not being as good as Franklin as quickly as Franklin was.

But Lockett kicked 233 goals though in four seasons. Quiet first season from plugger too.

[weltschmerz]

JUH on the left, Tom Hawkins at the same age on the right.

1442

[CarnTheScray]

I agree with D Mitchell that Weightman injury is sort of his own doing. Why he flew against Lobb I have no idea?

About the JUH stuff, I agree with that significantly less.

[Happy Days]

Cody is a better chance to actually mark the ball than Lobb anyway, maybe Lobb should’ve got out of his way and also got off the ground and also out of the AFL?

[Happy Days]

And “yeah but he’s not comparable to the literal best player of all time” is a dumb argument. There is plenty of actual stuff to be upset by at the moment.

[Scorlibo]

Really like that Jamarra's re-signed, and the figure doesn't bother me at all, he's good, young, he's one of ours and that's the market rate to keep him.

The shorter term deal is smart as well, it would have been easy to buckle and throw him a long term big money contract like Naughton but the reality is that he's not a proven star. We can all make comparisons to big name forwards at the same point in their careers but there is really no knowing what trajectory he ends up on. He might be ahead of Hawkins but he's behind Jack Anthony.

There are a few areas where I'd like to see improvement from Jamarra in the back half of this year:

- Conversion
- Awareness of when to stay down or protect Aaron in the marking contest
- Taking the first option more often with ball in hand
- Second efforts once the ball hits the ground (which includes avoiding losing his feet in the marking contest)

[hujsh]

Really like that Jamarra's re-signed, and the figure doesn't bother me at all, he's good, young, he's one of ours and that's the market rate to keep him.

The shorter term deal is smart as well, it would have been easy to buckle and throw him a long term big money contract like Naughton but the reality is that he's not a proven star. We can all make comparisons to big name forwards at the same point in their careers but there is really no knowing what trajectory he ends up on. He might be ahead of Hawkins but he's behind Jack Anthony.

There are a few areas where I'd like to see improvement from Jamarra in the back half of this year:

- Conversion
- Awareness of when to stay down or protect Aaron in the marking contest
- Taking the first option more often with ball in hand
- Second efforts once the ball hits the ground (which includes avoiding losing his feet in the marking contest)
Do we have any idea what that is by the way?

[Grantysghost]

Do we have any idea what that is by the way?

https://media.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExamE0em56MGM4aDVueTAyYXkzazJ4bDJ1YWMybmdoa Gd3c2ZhY2RvMiZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/sEULHciNa7tUQ/giphy.gif

[jeemak]

Maybe if the coaches get together and stop teaching the players to run into each other and actually lead in different directions he will kick 50 plus but if Naughton Darcy, Lobb and English keep leading together like a pack, crowding him and jumping all over him he won’t and that’s not from his lack of trying.

You really think the coaches can?t see what we see and coach the players to run into each other?

[jeemak]

Franklin isn't just elite, he was a generational talent. I'm sure there are numerous elite key forwards Jamarra would compare favorably to. One example Curnow in his first 4 years had less goals from more games.

Call for better efforts or whatever but don't attack him for not being as good as Franklin as quickly as Franklin was.

A generational talent playing a different sport to what AFL is today. He got drafted almost twenty years before JUH.

[Bullies]

Do we have any idea what that is by the way? they said $1m per year.

[ledge]

You really think the coaches can?t see what we see and coach the players to run into each other?

Blind Freddie can see it we can all see it and it hasn’t changed in any form. So why haven’t they done anything about it?
Cody’s injury probably points to it getting worse not better .

[bornadog]

Ugle-Hagan remains in red, white and blue
(https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/1548796/ugle-hagan-remains-in-red-white-and-blue)
Emerging key forward Jamarra Ugle-Hagan has put pen to paper on a two-year contract extension.


It means the 22-year-old will remain at the Kennel until at least the end of 2026, committing his future to the red, white and blue.


Having played 51 games for the Dogs thus far, Ugle-Hagan is quickly cementing himself as one of the league?s up and coming forwards, demonstrated by his overhead aerial abilities and creativity inside 50.


Ugle-Hagan said he was thrilled to be remaining a Bulldog.


?I?m really excited to be staying here,? Ugle-Hagan said.


?The Western Bulldogs have looked after me since I was 15 years old with the Next Generation Academy. Ever since then, I have just fallen in love with the Club and it just feels like I?m at home.


?The boys make me feel like we?re a big family ? everyone has been amazing since I walked in the doors. The best thing about our job is that we get to go into work every day with our best mates and train and compete with them.?


Bulldogs? General Manager of List and Recruiting Sam Power couldn?t have been more pleased to secure the signature of the forward.


?We?re really excited as a football club that Jamarra has re-signed,? Power said.


?Having been a part of the Bulldogs since the age of 15, Jamarra has built a strong affiliation with the red, white and blue and is seen as a huge part of our future.


?His exciting attributes in the air and ability to impact games at such a young age are qualities that should excite our fans during the next stage of his career.


?Jamarra committing his next two years to the Club is a positive show of faith in what we?re continuing to build and the environment we?re creating.?


Ugle-Hagan, of Gunditjmara, Balardong Noongar and Whadjuk Noongar country, was the No.1 draft pick in 2020 when the Bulldogs matched Adelaide?s bid on the Next Generation Academy prospect.


He became just the second Indigenous player to top the draft - following Des Headland in 1998 - and the Bulldogs? first number one selection since Adam Cooney in 2003.


Ugle-Hagan joins the likes of Tom Liberatore in re-committing to the club this season.

[Grantysghost]

Best news ever.

[weltschmerz]

but I thought he was already signed on the line at Essendon, Sydney, Geelong, and Collingwood, all of whom can afford him when we can't because salary caps don't apply to big teams

[chef]

Would liked longer than 2 years.

[Grantysghost]

Would liked longer than 2 years.
He's not going anywhere.

[D Mitchell]

Would liked longer than 2 years.
2 Years is about right. The lad has unrealised potential. 4 years already. I hope we aren't overpaying for potential. Uninformed, it looks like good administration. Sam Power is good at his job.

[bornadog]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNptjeYY59Y&ab_channel=WesternBulldogs

[Eastdog]

Great news!

[ledge]

He has put faith in us now we have two years to show him we are a club to have his whole career at.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

2 years is fine with me.

Has shown potential but he's still a long way off where he needs to get to.

[D Mitchell]

There's a story floating 'round that Ugle-Hagan has been hanging out with and inviting into the rooms, bikies and shady characters. Is there anything in it ?

[ledge]

There's a story floating 'round that Ugle-Hagan has been hanging out with and inviting into the rooms, bikies and shady characters. Is there anything in it ?

Well if it’s anything like Dustin Martin and Buddy Franklins rumours I hope it’s the same ones.
TBH I think that’s rubbish I haven’t heard anything and he seems cleaner than a disinfectant.

[Grantysghost]

There's a story floating 'round that Ugle-Hagan has been hanging out with and inviting into the rooms, bikies and shady characters. Is there anything in it ?

No good can come from propagating that kind of story.

[EasternWest]

No good can come from propagating that kind of story.

Let's get back to talking about the Butters trade.

[GVGjr]

There's a story floating 'round that Ugle-Hagan has been hanging out with and inviting into the rooms, bikies and shady characters. Is there anything in it ?

You can put that one to bed.
I'd want to get first count observations before even considering it.

[Grantysghost]

Let's get back to talking about the Butters trade.

Yes nothing but facts!

God hes good.

He makes decisions at full speed like Gaz jnr used to and executes them perfectly. Ports midfield is amazing.

[EasternWest]

Yes nothing but facts!

God hes good.

He makes decisions at full speed like Gaz jnr used to and executes them perfectly. Ports midfield is amazing.

Yes I agree with you he WILL be great for us.

[chef]

Do we need Jeemak to join a Port forum and start a trade Butters thread?

[ledge]

Do we need Jeemak to join a Port forum and start a trade Butters thread?

That would cause a meltdown, they are a different breed at Port.

[EasternWest]

That would cause a meltdown, they are a different breed at Port.

I'm seeing no negatives.

[Grantysghost]

Do we need Jeemak to join a Port forum and start a trade Butters thread?
Hells yeah

[D Mitchell]

Thanks, ledge and GVGjr and don't shoot the messenger, GG. Bont. What I've heard from those in a better position than me to comment, that includes from one as close as a family member, this bloke is as good a model for life as is possible and our recruiting manager and player manager are cut from the same cloth. To a parent of a potential recruit, that our Club has people of that calibre is important enough to swing it our way.

[josie]

Nice post D Mitchell. Inside info always welcome on woof, even better if it?s positive in a challenging time.

[Grantysghost]

Thanks, ledge and GVGjr and don't shoot the messenger, GG. Bont. What I've heard from those in a better position than me to comment, that includes from one as close as a family member, this bloke is as good a model for life as is possible and our recruiting manager and player manager are cut from the same cloth. To a parent of a potential recruit, that our Club has people of that calibre is important enough to swing it our way.
I love shooting messengers!

I'm not sure what you're saying here.

Re marra i'll reiterate those type of stories don't really add anything to this forum in my opinion.

[1eyedog]

There's a story floating 'round that Ugle-Hagan has been hanging out with and inviting into the rooms, bikies and shady characters. Is there anything in it ?

No it's not sorry this is laughable. You will not find a more morally decent person in the world.

I know most of his family and extended family and see them a few times a month.

[Grantysghost]

No it's not sorry this is laughable. You will not find a more morally decent person in the world.

I know most of his family and extended family and see them a few times a month.
Yep, absolutely can mirror this sentiment.

[bornadog]

No it's not sorry this is laughable. You will not find a more morally decent person in the world.

I know most of his family and extended family and see them a few times a month.

good enough for me - even though I didn't believe a word of those rumours

[angelopetraglia]

Jamarra Ugle-Hagan says he is playing with a renewed sense of freedom after signing a new deal at the Kennel. The 22-year-old is confident the Dogs are on the right track after their thumping win over Richmond.

https://x.com/10NewsFirstMelb/status/1789931372674523544

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Not sure if it's already been discussed but did anyone else see Marras reaction to one of Darcy's marks? He celebrated it like he'd kicked a goal himself. I thought that said a lot about him.

[bornadog]

Not sure if it's already been discussed but did anyone else see Marras reaction to one of Darcy's marks? He celebrated it like he'd kicked a goal himself. I thought that said a lot about him.

Yes, that was great stuff

[Scorlibo]

Not sure if it's already been discussed but did anyone else see Marras reaction to one of Darcy's marks? He celebrated it like he'd kicked a goal himself. I thought that said a lot about him.

Naughton and Weightman are also amazing at celebrating their teammates' wins. Great to see.

[angelopetraglia]

Matthew Lloyd makes a good point here.

"The Dogs might want to ask him that question."

Matthew Lloyd pinpoints the technical flaw in Jamarra Ugle-Hagan's game.

https://x.com/FootyonNine/status/1797588546708283442

[hujsh]

Matthew Lloyd makes a good point here.

"The Dogs might want to ask him that question."

Matthew Lloyd pinpoints the technical flaw in Jamarra Ugle-Hagan's game.

https://x.com/FootyonNine/status/1797588546708283442

Not that insightful, it's something we've all noticed since his initial games that he can tend to run under the ball.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Gee. Loyd?s live of himself is unbelievable. JUH hashtags weeks off and lost little touch. Doesn?t help that we have no regular mates in the forward 50

Sit tight JUH is only 4 days from tipping a game apart

[bornadog]

Gee. Loyd?s live of himself is unbelievable. JUH hashtags weeks off and lost little touch. Doesn?t help that we have no regular mates in the forward 50

Sit tight JUH is only 4 days from tipping a game apart
21 contested marks - 9th highest in AFL

[jeemak]

21 contested marks - 9th highest in AFL

Well he's obviously a pussy then.

The vision and comments are valid, but it also might have more to do with timing and not wanting to be caught up in a contest of bodies when leaping to his optimal height to take a mark is his go. If you recall last week he was coming from diagonally behind a contest and took the ball one hand and marked it strongly.

So to me it's a form issue that needs to be worked through.

[bornadog]

Well he's obviously a pussy then.

The vision and comments are valid, but it also might have more to do with timing and not wanting to be caught up in a contest of bodies when leaping to his optimal height to take a mark is his go. If you recall last week he was coming from diagonally behind a contest and took the ball one hand and marked it strongly.

So to me it's a form issue that needs to be worked through.

Did Moore also work him under the ball a bit. Agree, Needs to fix it.

[angelopetraglia]

No matter what he has done or how good he is. It is still definitely still a flaw to go at a ball multiple times with one hand and getting so far under the ball. Obviously not doing it all the time, but something he can definiltey improve upon and I even heard him say in a post match interview that he got under the ball a few too many times. So I'm sure it is something he is working on.

[hujsh]

Well he's obviously a pussy then.

The vision and comments are valid, but it also might have more to do with timing and not wanting to be caught up in a contest of bodies when leaping to his optimal height to take a mark is his go. If you recall last week he was coming from diagonally behind a contest and took the ball one hand and marked it strongly.

So to me it's a form issue that needs to be worked through.

Pretty spot on. He's mistiming things a bit but it's something he's worked through before

[GVGjr]

Well he's obviously a pussy then.

The vision and comments are valid, but it also might have more to do with timing and not wanting to be caught up in a contest of bodies when leaping to his optimal height to take a mark is his go. If you recall last week he was coming from diagonally behind a contest and took the ball one hand and marked it strongly.

So to me it's a form issue that needs to be worked through.

We aren't holding Marra to a high enough standard and he's had a somewhat disappointing season based on how he set himself up during the pre-season. I feel he is very lucky that someone like Lloyd didn't call him out for his efforts against the Hawks.
Agree that it's probably a form and possibly a confidence issue that needs to be worked through.

[jeemak]

We aren't holding Marra to a high enough standard and he's had a somewhat disappointing season based on how he set himself up during the pre-season. I feel he is very lucky that someone like Lloyd didn't call him out for his efforts against the Hawks.
Agree that it's probably a form and possibly a confidence issue that needs to be worked through.

I think we're holding him to too high a standard, personally. He's a bottom age 4th year player averaging 1.8 goals a game, and people are picking him apart.

He needs to tidy up some things but his two weeks out actually mean something to his continuity and form this year, but he's trying.

[GVGjr]

I think we're holding him to too high a standard, personally. He's a bottom age 4th year player averaging 1.8 goals a game, and people are picking him apart.

He needs to tidy up some things but his two weeks out actually mean something to his continuity and form this year, but he's trying.

My main concern is the effort he is bringing and yet some of the comments I've been reading are giving him ticks for drawing a good opponent in games he's under-performed in.
Regardless of anyone's age the effort all players should bring should be a non-negotiable in terms of setting a standard.
We are also just about giving him a free pass on some aspects of the game when others are buried for it.

I get he has an immense talent but hasn't delivered on it much this season and there might be some valid reasons why but at the moment he appears to be down on confidence and form and that is the challenge the coaches need to address.
Lets hope he has that breakout game against Brisbane.

[jeemak]

My main concern is the effort he is bringing and yet some of the comments I've been reading are giving him ticks for drawing a good opponent in games he's under-performed in.
Regardless of anyone's age the effort all players should bring should be a non-negotiable in terms of setting a standard.
We are also just about giving him a free pass on some aspects of the game when others are buried for it.

I get he has an immense talent but hasn't delivered on it much this season and there might be some valid reasons why but at the moment he appears to be down on confidence and form and that is the challenge the coaches need to address.
Lets hope he has that breakout game against Brisbane.

Maybe the reasons are important, and that he's still fronting up week after week and scraping by might be something to deem encouraging rather than the opposite. It would be easy enough for somebody his age to go completely into his shell.

Geelong have Tom Hawkins not kicking goals for a month, he's the most experienced key forward in the competition and he's being continually praised for his effort with everyone saying a goal or two is just around the corner.

JUH is 22, in his 4th year and has taken a couple of weeks off for personal reasons but hasn't stopped trying and influencing the scoreboard. He's a long way off perfect in any way, he's not without reason to be criticised, but he isn't the guy to worry about right now for mine.

[D Mitchell]

Lloyd?s comment was restricted to just one aspect of Ugle-Hagan?s game and he illustrated it with vision. It was Cornes who ascribed a possible explanation, wishing to avoid contact. That?s not to suggest lack of courage, if his talent is a leap, then contact interferes. I agree that he?s held to a lower standard than he should, evidenced in a number of responses to Lloyd?s comment, by the commonly expressed excuses, youth, comparison with other tall forwards also underperforming, minimising comments like a couple of things to iron out and mistiming a bit, personal issues.

[Grantysghost]

How are McDonald and Tilthorpe going in comparison?

Pick 4 and 2 from the same draft.

I'd say Marra has them covered.

[Rocket Science]

If I was a wiry key forward in a setup that enthusiastically encourages everyone in the vicinity to fly for everything at all times I might be a little leery of what's approaching from behind too at times.

Maturing talent needs to refine his craft but sure Kano, reach for the 'soft' dog whistle.

[kickit2Koly]

My main concern is the effort he is bringing and yet some of the comments I've been reading are giving him ticks for drawing a good opponent in games he's under-performed in.
Regardless of anyone's age the effort all players should bring should be a non-negotiable in terms of setting a standard.
We are also just about giving him a free pass on some aspects of the game when others are buried for it.

I get he has an immense talent but hasn't delivered on it much this season and there might be some valid reasons why but at the moment he appears to be down on confidence and form and that is the challenge the coaches need to address.
Lets hope he has that breakout game against Brisbane.

Are you questioning his effort on Friday? because I thought he competed really hard against the Pies. So did Bevo by the way, he mentioned it in his post game presser.

[lemmon]

Do we need to frame some of this in the thought that he's a million-dollar player next year? I think his development has been strong and he's right where you want a fourth-year key forward to be, but I think when you're taking the big bucks next year, you really need to be a 50+ goal kicker.

We're pretty firm on not overpaying English and I feel similarly about Marra next year. I think this is still a development season, and he deserves some leeway, but I'd like to see some consistent impact in 2025 when he's going to be on the big bucks.

[GVGjr]

Lloyd?s comment was restricted to just one aspect of Ugle-Hagan?s game and he illustrated it with vision. It was Cornes who ascribed a possible explanation, wishing to avoid contact. That?s not to suggest lack of courage, if his talent is a leap, then contact interferes. I agree that he?s held to a lower standard than he should, evidenced in a number of responses to Lloyd?s comment, by the commonly expressed excuses, youth, comparison with other tall forwards also underperforming, minimising comments like a couple of things to iron out and mistiming a bit, personal issues.

It's probably more about form, focus and confidence at the moment and when it clicks again we will see him back at his best. The timing part with his marking will return and I don't for a second think it's anything to do with him worrying about being hit.

[Scorlibo]

Do we need to frame some of this in the thought that he's a million-dollar player next year?

Not particularly, he's worth a million bucks on promise and that promise doesn't have to be fully realised next year or even the year after.

My personal benchmark around which I judge Marra's season to be poor (thus far) is two-fold:

a) he had a breakout season last year where he showed an ability to impact games in a variety of ways. This year he's been very one-dimensional by comparison (marking has been strong, but field kicking, decision making, conversion, pressure and ground level work has fallen away).

b) he has been given the most opportunity of any player to impact the scoreboard, being our number one target inside fifty. Much like how centre bounce midfielders should be averaging ~25 disposals a game, Marra should be averaging ~2 goals a game.

[Grantysghost]

Not particularly, he's worth a million bucks on promise and that promise doesn't have to be fully realised next year or even the year after.

My personal benchmark around which I judge Marra's season to be poor (thus far) is two-fold:

a) he had a breakout season last year where he showed an ability to impact games in a variety of ways. This year he's been very one-dimensional by comparison (marking has been strong, but field kicking, decision making, conversion, pressure and ground level work has fallen away).

b) he has been given the most opportunity of any player to impact the scoreboard, being our number one target inside fifty. Much like how centre bounce midfielders should be averaging ~25 disposals a game, Marra should be averaging ~2 goals a game.

That's around 50 goals a season. Fair benchmark!

I'm more 30 ish.

[hujsh]

He's averaging 1.8 fwiw. Decent amount of score involvements for a key forward too

[Scorlibo]

That's around 50 goals a season. Fair benchmark!

I'm more 30 ish.

Yeah it's probably more like 1.7 or something.

The general point I'm making is that I don't see Marra having kicked a reasonable amount of goals as something particularly worth celebrating given he's being given more opportunity to kick goals than anyone else in the side.

I also strongly disagree with goals kicked being the ultimate measure of a forward's worth in the modern game. Naughton has been brilliant this season but you wouldn't know it looking at his goal average.

[bornadog]

Yeah it's probably more like 1.7 or something.

The general point I'm making is that I don't see Marra having kicked a reasonable amount of goals as something particularly worth celebrating given he's being given more opportunity to kick goals than anyone else in the side.

I also strongly disagree with goals kicked being the ultimate measure of a forward's worth in the modern game. Naughton has been brilliant this season but you wouldn't know it looking at his goal average.

He has kicked 18.17, or 35 scoring shots. Needs to nail more of those opportunities.

[Grantysghost]

He has kicked 18.17, or 35 scoring shots. Needs to nail more of those opportunities.

He needs to be tight on the LH pocket. That's his sweet spot.

Think v Pies, v Demons, and his first ever goal. It's pretty clear to me that when he kicks through it - they go where he wants them to.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6vD70vT7SI

[Ozza]

No doubt Jamarra was a bit down on form to start the year and then had an interruption of a couple of weeks personal leave.

Whilst he's not absolutely flying, I don't think you could question his work ethic over the past 3 matches (GWS, Swans, Pies) where he is getting to a lot of contests, competing hard and helping his team mates get clear (still a work in progress working with Darcy and others to not fly for the same ball....but they're troubleshooting on the run).

I think this period where he is working really hard and not necessarily cashing in as much as he would like, will pay off soon. He had Darcy Moore pretty much the entire night on Friday and was able to stay dangerous and still get his shots on goal.

The only concern I have whatsoever about Marra's progress is his kicking for goal. He is 4th in the competition for shots on goal per game, behind only Curnow, Ben King and Waterman. If his conversion can improve, he is pretty rapidly in the elite forwards conversation.

[SquirrelGrip]

He has kicked 18.17, or 35 scoring shots. Needs to nail more of those opportunities.

I agree. He's been close to getting off the chain a number of times but then hasn't executed. Kick straighter and it's a much different tale.

[GVGjr]

That's around 50 goals a season. Fair benchmark!

I'm more 30 ish.

50 was always going to be a reach. I was hoping for 40+ but would have been happy with 35+
He's still a good chance of getting there.

[D Mitchell]

That's around 50 goals a season. Fair benchmark!

I'm more 30 ish.

50 only if we play in 3 finals. At 2 per game, that's 40 this season. That should be achievable as long as there are a couple of 5 goal plus games.

[D Mitchell]

He has kicked 18.17, or 35 scoring shots. Needs to nail more of those opportunities.

AFL stats credit 46 shots at goal. Currently at 37.6 % conversion, same as last year and worse than 2022, 39.1 %. Poor kicking isn't a glitch, it's a feature.