Mitch Hahn - Where to from here?

[GVGjr]

I think most of us appreciate the robust style that Hahn goes about with his footy. He is almost a throwback from a more aggressive period of the game when Bulldog players were more noted for their hard at it approach than the leg speed reputation we now have.
As I watched the game today with Bulldog Revolution, it became apparent to me that Hahn is going to be a hard man to squeeze into the starting 18 if we have an almost full list to select from.

He is a reasonably good mark for his size but it isn't a strength by AFL standards.
Whilst he isn't slow he certainly isn't quick.
He can be used in the midfield for short bursts or in tagging assignments like he did last year on Chad Cornes to great effect but those roles are often few and far between.
And he certainly cannot get by on his skills.
There is also a query on his versatility and he wouldn't be regarded as a genuine footy smart player.

Perhaps in a team that had a couple of genuine key forwards, Hahn's bull at a gate style might open up opportunities for some smalls but with our set-up he is neither the marking, running or goal kicking option that we need.

If Murphy, Higgins, Johnson and Akermanis are going to spend significant minutes as mid and small forwards then I struggle to find a spot for Hahn.

His toughness is a real bonus but at the moment at best I see Hahn as a bench player.

I would be interested in everyones else thoughts.

[Mantis]

Like quite a few of our more regular players over the past 3 or 4 years if/ when we have a full squad to pick from we will have quite a few who will feel some pressure to keep a spot in our best 22.

Mitch would have to improve on his performance from today, but he is not alone. With Minson and Welsh being added to the forward structure this year it means all the mid/ smalls we have used over the past few years to varying levels of success will not be able to play in the same team. Good, finally some competition for spots so let's see how it unfolds.

BTW all your points are valid.

[bornadog]

With Welsh and Minson added to the forward line, maybe we should consider swapping Hahn back to the HBF where he played some of his earlier career and bring Hargrave into a more forward role, or even a wing. This would free up one of the wings to play a HFF role. We need a toughnut in the backline (otherthan just Lake).
Something to think about.

[hujsh]

Where did Hahn play before the knee reco? He was always named at FF but i doubt he would play there unless Minson failed and they didn't want to have Welsh or Johnno there

[BulldogBelle]

His toughness is a real bonus but at the moment at best I see Hahn as a bench player.

Do you think due to his recent injuries sustained during the last few years that his confidence is low and that perhaps he might hold back a little? I feel once he gets his mojo happening it will all fall into place for him.

[GVGjr]

Do you think due to his recent injuries sustained during the last few years that his confidence is low and that perhaps he might hold back a little? I feel once he gets his mojo happening it will all fall into place for him.

I'm tending to think this is not a lack of fitness or even a lack of confidence issue. We have some better options up forward and Mitch has slipped back.
Even if he gets back to his best he might not squeeze others out.

It comes down to the fact he doesn't get enough of the ball or do enough with it when he does.

[Scorlibo]

Mitch is never going to rack up the possies like the top midfielders, he doesnt have the pace to play on a half back flank, he doesnt have the height to play as a key position player. His best quality by a mile is his ability to break the packs and the tackles. So where does that leave him?
I say a forward pocket with stints in the middle. A forward pocket suits his playing style, my only concern really is that with Minson lumbering out of the goal square and Hahn lumbering at his feet ready for the crumbs in the pack, our forward line looks a little slow.
In the middle last year we were pushed off the ball too easily in the race for the clearance and this is where Mitch can really play a role. If he can go in there after a quarter of us getting smashed in the middle and apply some physical pressure, get a few quick clearances, then it could really make an impact.
Hahn is also one of those players who you notice when we are getting beaten because he always seems to give it his all and even when others look slightly demoralised and weak he gets in there, breaks a few tackles and looks like a player a class above the rest. He is mentally one of our strongest players, without a doubt.
If Rocket does send him into the midfield when the team finds itself in a difficult circumstance, then I think Mitch will really pay dividends. When we are going well, put him in a forward pocket where he can crash and bash his way to a few goals to get us on a roll.

[Sockeye Salmon]

I think the game has passed Mitch by and he's in real trouble.

[GVGjr]

I think the game has passed Mitch by and he's in real trouble.

Based on todays performance or has it been starting to show for a while?

[Sockeye Salmon]

Based on todays performance or has it been starting to show for a while?

He has looked just as slow this year as he did last year. I've always believed he has got an easy ride from our supporters because of his playing style, but I think it's more style than substance.

Gia gets lots of grief from supporters but he adds way more to the side than Hahn does.

[The Coon Dog]

I think there's still a role for Mitch albeit limited. I seem him as an impact player who can come off after the initial sting has gone out of the game, particularly when we need something a little bit different up forward.

[The Underdog]

With Welsh and Minson added to the forward line, maybe we should consider swapping Hahn back to the HBF where he played some of his earlier career and bring Hargrave into a more forward role, or even a wing. This would free up one of the wings to play a HFF role. We need a toughnut in the backline (otherthan just Lake).
Something to think about.

Would his kicking be too detrimental in the back half though?
I think he's got the physical tools to play back but I'm not sure you want him clearing the ball from there too often.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Interesting GVGJr.

I think Hahn can fill a utility role.. but more as a sub from the bench. Be it a quick stint in the middle when we need to assert some physicality, similarly a small stint around the ground in stoppages for the same sort of role, and perhaps when Will is resting or in the ruck as required, he could pinch hit up forward.
I think he has the ability, but I do agree that is "old school toughness" as opposed to his skill sets or athleticism that he is relying on at the moment, and as a result I don't think he rates being in the 18 at the moment.

[Go_Dogs]

Very interesting thread, and I tend to agree that come end of season Hahn could well be struggling to maintain his place in the side, especially if we have a good run with injuries.

For mine, he really needs to rev up his defensive efforts in the F50. He has to be there to crash through contest both at ground level and in the air, and once he's done that, apply tackles, bumps and pressure to help lock the ball in and create opportunities. His marking, kicking and speed are all areas that he's never been exceptional at, (not a dig), but by doing the hard team things he's worth a spot.

[LostDoggy]

He missed a couple of easy shoots he should have got on Friday. 2 goals from HFF would have been ok.

[DOG GOD]

He missed a couple of easy shoots he should have got on Friday. 2 goals from HFF would have been ok.

His kicking in general is really a "throw it on the boot" style, and the closer he can get to goal the better, as i'm never confident when mitch is kicking from 30 let alone 45.

Hs role will surely be impact, but i cant see him and Will up there together.

[LostDoggy]

His kicking in general is really a "throw it on the boot" style, and the closer he can get to goal the better, as i'm never confident when mitch is kicking from 30 let alone 45.

Hs role will surely be impact, but i cant see him and Will up there together.

Not sure why Will and him can't play in the same forward line.
Hahn leads up to the half back line while Minson sits in the square.

[mjp]

He is 'hard at it', but at what point does this cease to be enough? Mitch cannot kick (can you imagine him playing half-back and delivering precision passes down field), does not have the motor or ball winning ability to play midfield and has neither the marking skills nor smarts to play forward.

He is over-rated by supporters because he is 'tough' and 'crashes packs', but honestly, so what? He is the cream, not the cake - and best suited to a pure 'shock trooper' role of 7-8 minutes general roving commission inside the forward 50m area each quarter to try and cause a match up problem and maybe create a contest and a goal.

That said, I have thought all of this for five years now and have probably been wrong for a fair part of it.

[Desipura]

I believe he would be best suited playing off a HBF playing on a 3rd tall. Would play him as a "stay at home" backman and therefore would be able to cut off the lead.
His strength at the ball would assist the likes of Lake, Everitt and co in a marking contest.
Also he would have more time to dispose of the ball.

[Sockeye Salmon]

I believe he would be best suited playing off a HBF playing on a 3rd tall. Would play him as a "stay at home" backman and therefore would be able to cut off the lead.
His strength at the ball would assist the likes of Lake, Everitt and co in a marking contest.
Also he would have more time to dispose of the ball.

There's not very many players he could match up on.

At a guess, I'd say Adelaide will use Burton, McGregor, Porplyzia, Edwards, Tippett and either Stevens/Bock or Vince/McLeod/Goodwin.

Who would Hahn play on out of that lot? Either too small or too slow for any of them I would think.

[westdog54]

There's not very many players he could match up on.

At a guess, I'd say Adelaide will use Burton, McGregor, Porplyzia, Edwards, Tippett and either Stevens/Bock or Vince/McLeod/Goodwin.

Who would Hahn play on out of that lot? Either too small or too slow for any of them I would think.

Burton- Too fast, too good.

McGregor- Too tall

Vince/McLeod/Goodwin- Far too fast

Tippett- Too tall.

Don't know too much about Edwards or Porplyzia.

[Desipura]

There's not very many players he could match up on.

At a guess, I'd say Adelaide will use Burton, McGregor, Porplyzia, Edwards, Tippett and either Stevens/Bock or Vince/McLeod/Goodwin.

Who would Hahn play on out of that lot? Either too small or too slow for any of them I would think.

Fair point..........probably McGregor or Goodwin who he could use his strength against. Only problem is if Goodwin/McGregor get on their bike, they would get a fair bit of the pill up the ground.
Is that a problem though? Hahn should be able to matching them in a one on one in the fwd line

[Sockeye Salmon]

Burton- Too fast, too good.

McGregor- Too tall

Vince/McLeod/Goodwin- Far too fast

Tippett- Too tall.

Don't know too much about Edwards or Porplyzia.

You don't know much about Tyson Edwards? He goes alright.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Fair point..........probably McGregor or Goodwin who he could use his strength against. Only problem is if Goodwin/McGregor get on their bike, they would get a fair bit of the pill up the ground.
Is that a problem though? Hahn should be able to matching them in a one on one in the fwd line

Goodwin would be too smart and agile.

McGregor maybe but he 195cm v Hahn's 188. That's 3 inches.

[westdog54]

You don't know much about Tyson Edwards? He goes alright.

:o

Probably shows just how underrated the bloke is.

His surname popped up, I thought 'Aaron'.

Yeah, Hahn would be pantsed.

[Sockeye Salmon]

:o

Probably shows just how underrated the bloke is.

His surname popped up, I thought 'Aaron'.

Yeah, Hahn would be pantsed.

I knew that's what you'd done.

[Sedat]

If there's a type of player that cannot afford to suffer a serious knee injury, it's Hahn's type. Not overly tall, not overly quick and not overly skilful, but committed and brave. Committed and brave can only go so far when the opposition are working you over in the other direction.

I thought he was terrific for us in 2005 and probably in our best 6 players in 2006 before he did his knee - he was really winning a lot of clearances for us in those 10-11 games, and did most of his damage up forward in dangerous areas. The injury has robbed him of some of his best years and taken an edge off his overall game. I hope he can turn it around.

[The Underdog]

I think the only player there that Hahn could match up on is Vince and that's cos he's rubbish and probably won't get a game.
I just don't see Mitch as a backman and certainly not against that group.

I view Burton as a big worry for us. Morris may get first shot but I'm not sure he's the right match up. I'm not sure we have one to be honest. I don't fancy any of our guys against him in the air.

[Mantis]

I think the only player there that Hahn could match up on is Vince and that's cos he's rubbish and probably won't get a game.
I just don't see Mitch as a backman and certainly not against that group.

I view Burton as a big worry for us. Morris may get first shot but I'm not sure he's the right match up. I'm not sure we have one to be honest. I don't fancy any of our guys against him in the air.

Could Griffen get this job or would we want to play him in the midfield?

I think early in the season Griffen should be played in the backline. If this means he has to partly sacrifice seem of his offensive game then so be it. It may make Burton chase a little which could be a good thing.

The only other player athletic enough is probably Hargrave.

[Raw Toast]

If there's a type of player that cannot afford to suffer a serious knee injury, it's Hahn's type. Not overly tall, not overly quick and not overly skilful, but committed and brave. Committed and brave can only go so far when the opposition are working you over in the other direction.

I thought he was terrific for us in 2005 and probably in our best 6 players in 2006 before he did his knee - he was really winning a lot of clearances for us in those 10-11 games, and did most of his damage up forward in dangerous areas. The injury has robbed him of some of his best years and taken an edge off his overall game. I hope he can turn it around.

Good call - he got a shock when he was dropped in 05 and bounced back well, but he does seem at the cross-roads a bit now.

Last preseason we were all talking about how you'd love him in a grand final team and he's the type to win a norm smith. I still think this and like him as a bench, impact player (up forward for mine with occasional stints in the middle), but he needs to have 21 players around him or so that are pretty consistently good so that he can complement him and he can be a game-breaker. If he's in a struggling team I don't think he's going to impact often enough to nail down a place in the side.

So I think he's sort of the inverse of the types of players who can secure a spot in a struggling team, but won't make the squad of a contender (if that makes sense).

[The Underdog]

Could Griffen get this job or would we want to play him in the midfield?

I think early in the season Griffen should be played in the backline. If this means he has to partly sacrifice seem of his offensive game then so be it. It may make Burton chase a little which could be a good thing.

The only other player athletic enough is probably Hargrave.

I really don't know whether we have anyone who can go with him and compete in the air. Shaggy probably is the logical one, but I can see Burton beating him in the air.
It all comes down to the midfield stopping the delivery really.
I think Griffen will & should play back but we probably need him running off and delivering downfield, don't know whether we can afford to sacrifice that.

[Sockeye Salmon]

I really don't know whether we have anyone who can go with him and compete in the air. Shaggy probably is the logical one, but I can see Burton beating him in the air.
It all comes down to the midfield stopping the delivery really.
I think Griffen will & should play back but we probably need him running off and delivering downfield, don't know whether we can afford to sacrifice that.

If Burton decides to stand on someone's head no-one can stop him. But a hangar still only counts for the same as any uncontested mark and I think Hargrave, Gilbee or Griffen could do some damage going the other way.

[1eyedog]

Do not put Mitch Hahn in the back half, he is too error ridden and will give away easy shots for goal through his kicking (or lack thereof) and the way he attacks players. He should play in stints on a HFF and in the middle for 5 minutes at the end of each quarter.

[alwaysadog]

He played pretty well yesterday against the Dees but it's as hard to tell whether it was the lack of committed opponents yesterday as it was to judge him against a hard working highly drilled Crow's side the week before.

Did he needed the gallop does less pressure suit him, will he go backwards against quicker more skilled sides. Next week will help to answer some of the above.

[ledge]

A week is a long time in footy and i think he bounced back well against the dees, what more do you want? Hope he wasnt reading these threads would have smashed his confidence.To me Hahn would always get a game, every team needs his bustling and pack breaking ability, its not about speed when your breaking packs, its about strength and he has it. Also the way he supports his players, did anyone notice how he is always there when a team mate is on the end of some pushing and shoving?Might be an awkward looking player but then again look at Welshs run up, but he is the most accurate kick in the league!Its not about looking good. On another thread some seem to be worried about Hills lazy look. now here we have 2 players on the opposite end of the spectrum and both cop criticism.
As long as they are doing their job and we both know they have different jobs.

[alwaysadog]

A week is a long time in footy and i think he bounced back well against the dees, what more do you want? Hope he wasnt reading these threads would have smashed his confidence.To me Hahn would always get a game, every team needs his bustling and pack breaking ability, its not about speed when your breaking packs, its about strength and he has it. Also the way he supports his players, did anyone notice how he is always there when a team mate is on the end of some pushing and shoving?Might be an awkward looking player but then again look at Welshs run up, but he is the most accurate kick in the league!Its not about looking good. On another thread some seem to be worried about Hills lazy look. now here we have 2 players on the opposite end of the spectrum and both cop criticism.
As long as they are doing their job and we both know they have different jobs.

I agree ledge, all I was saying was that it's too early to know if his knockers are right or if those who think he is a vital cog in the team are correct. He played a good game but the opposition wasn't very competitive and that's not his fault. Nearly all those singled out for criticism after the Crows game played well yesterday.

[hujsh]

Sounds like Hahn was giving a bit of lip to the Melbourne players yesterday. Happy for him to be our enforcer

[LostDoggy]

Best game for a couple of seasons - had the mongrel on full show and overcame his lack of pace. Great goal in the third.

[Mofra]

Hahn surprised by taking a couple of marks under pressure with a greasy ball - something I doubt many of us would have expected, especially last year. Will be intersting to see how he backs up against the Saints.

[alwaysadog]

Hahn surprised by taking a couple of marks under pressure with a greasy ball - something I doubt many of us would have expected, especially last year. Will be intersting to see how he backs up against the Saints.

It will indeed be good to see how he goes this week, but I would have thought that he had a pretty good record in the area of contested marking, whenever his shoulders hold together.

[mighty_west]

I actually believe that Mitch is one of our most important players, when fit & firing, unfortunatly he's one player that get's injured alot, most likely due to his bash & crash style.

He's also the sort of player that can played in many roles, i would like to see him used more in the guts, he is a good shot for goal from 50 [as Bubba stated during the Crows game], and his game against Melbourne showed that he's still a very important player.

[alwaysadog]

I actually believe that Mitch is one of our most important players, when fit & firing, unfortunatly he's one player that get's injured alot, most likely due to his bash & crash style.

He's also the sort of player that can played in many roles, i would like to see him used more in the guts, he is a good shot for goal from 50 [as Bubba stated during the Crows game], and his game against Melbourne showed that he's still a very important player.

I agree, my only concern is that he may not be as good as he once was given all his injuries. This season is very important for him.

[LostDoggy]

With Welsh and Minson added to the forward line, maybe we should consider swapping Hahn back to the HBF where he played some of his earlier career and bring Hargrave into a more forward role, or even a wing. This would free up one of the wings to play a HFF role. We need a toughnut in the backline (otherthan just Lake).
Something to think about.

Sounds good to me bornadog, where do we play Griffin, Gilbee, and or Hargrave so many good players, we need the AFL to invent two new positions so we can get em all on the ground.

[LostDoggy]

I think the game has passed Mitch by and he's in real trouble.

No No No, dont say that, he is just running into some form and we need him out on the ground doing what he does best, started to run into some against Melbourne, will see how he goes against some quality opposition in the Saints...... Go You Bulldogs!

[1eyedog]

Provided the spark tonight. Simply outstanding. Welcome back big fella.

[westdog54]

No No No, dont say that, he is just running into some form and we need him out on the ground doing what he does best, started to run into some against Melbourne, will see how he goes against some quality opposition in the Saints...... Go You Bulldogs!

Esranit, I can tell you on Sockeye's behalf he was more than happy to be proved wrong tonight.

[Go_Dogs]

Played a great game last night. His ability to create a contest and lock the ball up in the F50 is crucial. Good to see him being used in that manner and doing it well. Top stuff Mitch.,

[ledge]

Ok Sockeye we want an apology for Mitch by you not a freind posting lol. Your new love child is to be Mitch Hahn.

Nothing worse than posting a bag on a player and he smacks you the next week!
Dennis Cometti is an unbelievably quick witted man and he brings the humour back into what it all is... a game.
Did you all notice Mitch was our centre half forward at times?
Now theres one out of left field.Done more than that so called champion with no figures to prove it in Nick Riewoldt.

[westdog54]

Ok Sockeye we want an apology for Mitch by you not a freind posting lol. Your new love child is to be Mitch Hahn.

Nothing worse than posting a bag on a player and he smacks you the next week!
Dennis Cometti is an unbelievably quick witted man and he brings the humour back into what it all is... a game.Did you all notice Mitch was our centre half forward at times?
Now theres one out of left field.Done more than that so called champion with no figures to prove it in Nick Riewoldt.

Have you seen/read his books ledge? Just a collection of some of his classics from over the years. Some very funny stuff in there.

[LostDoggy]

Esranit, I can tell you on Sockeye's behalf he was more than happy to be proved wrong tonight.

thanks for your help Mitch, you GUN!

[mighty_west]

Bucks made mention during the call that the hard nuts have made a difference to the side, players such as Callan, Addison, Minson, Hudson & HAHN.

His game last night showed exactly how important he is to our side, the extra bulk to most of the players, the contested style to compliment our fast running game style.

THATS what will make us from an exciting team to a real Premiership threat, and thats why players such as Mitch are so valuable to our make up.

[Dancin' Douggy]

I reckon he lifts the spirits of those around him. His wild attack on the ball and bulldozer approach to tackles are just inspirational. I love it when he thumps one through with his crazy kicking style. He actually reminds me a bit of Paul Kelly (swans). Different type of player I know but there's something similar about the way they attack the ball. And the game.

[alwaysadog]

Wrap him in cotton wool between games, showed just how vital a player of his qualities is in the forward mix. It's not just his possessions but the room he makes for others.

He and Murph are perfect foils, Murph doing his twinkle toed dances around opponents while Mitch just barges through.

[LostDoggy]

Murph doing his twinkle toed dances around opponents


Anyone else see that passage of play in the third quarter on our forward 50 line when Murph got pushed off the ball, got up immediately, won the ball back, 'twinkle-toed' one step to the right, shook off a tackle, then stopped and just full-on smacked/pushed the Saints' player (who had been the one who had pushed him initially) right in the chest and barged right past him before delivering the ball?

It was Mitch-like!

[Mantis]

Anyone else see that passage of play in the third quarter on our forward 50 line when Murph got pushed off the ball, got up immediately, won the ball back, 'twinkle-toed' one step to the right, shook off a tackle, then stopped and just full-on smacked/pushed the Saints' player (who had been the one who had pushed him initially) right in the chest and barged right past him before delivering the ball?

It was Mitch-like!

Yeah I saw it (I have watched the 2nd half 3 times on replay already). He actually pushed off Goddard who is built pretty solidly which makes that effort seem even more remarkable. He had a shot on goal in that piece of play that just narrowly missed, Bruce was ready to go nuts if the goal went thru.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Anyone else see that passage of play in the third quarter on our forward 50 line when Murph got pushed off the ball, got up immediately, won the ball back, 'twinkle-toed' one step to the right, shook off a tackle, then stopped and just full-on smacked/pushed the Saints' player (who had been the one who had pushed him initially) right in the chest and barged right past him before delivering the ball?

It was Mitch-like!

Bobby is a brute!

[bornadog]

I think most of us appreciate the robust style that Hahn goes about with his footy. He is almost a throwback from a more aggressive period of the game when Bulldog players were more noted for their hard at it approach than the leg speed reputation we now have.
As I watched the game today with Bulldog Revolution, it became apparent to me that Hahn is going to be a hard man to squeeze into the starting 18 if we have an almost full list to select from.

He is a reasonably good mark for his size but it isn't a strength by AFL standards.
Whilst he isn't slow he certainly isn't quick.
He can be used in the midfield for short bursts or in tagging assignments like he did last year on Chad Cornes to great effect but those roles are often few and far between.
And he certainly cannot get by on his skills.
There is also a query on his versatility and he wouldn't be regarded as a genuine footy smart player.

Perhaps in a team that had a couple of genuine key forwards, Hahn's bull at a gate style might open up opportunities for some smalls but with our set-up he is neither the marking, running or goal kicking option that we need.

If Murphy, Higgins, Johnson and Akermanis are going to spend significant minutes as mid and small forwards then I struggle to find a spot for Hahn.
His toughness is a real bonus but at the moment at best I see Hahn as a bench player.
I would be interested in everyones else thoughts.

I think we all felt the same at the start of the season, yet he has now proved us wrong and is in top form. He leads the AFL stats for most tackles inside 50 and he is an important part of the forward line that has kicked more goals than any other team.

[ledge]

Reminds me of a kid called Mark West a few years ago, not quite as quick as Mark but hard and definitely lasts longer than a quarter.

[1eyedog]

I think we all felt the same at the start of the season, yet he has now proved us wrong and is in top form. He leads the AFL stats for most tackles inside 50 and he is an important part of the forward line that has kicked more goals than any other team.

Very interesting stat that tends to go unnoticed. It reminds me why I've always thought that Mitch was going to be a great player for us.

[Go_Dogs]

For mine, he really needs to rev up his defensive efforts in the F50. He has to be there to crash through contest both at ground level and in the air, and once he's done that, apply tackles, bumps and pressure to help lock the ball in and create opportunities. His marking, kicking and speed are all areas that he's never been exceptional at, (not a dig), but by doing the hard team things he's worth a spot.

He's done all this, and more. So he definitely has secured his spot. He's been very important thus far after starting the year relatively quietly. Hopefully his good form continues.

[ledge]

Must say he caught my eye as an 18 year old, i remember seeing his back and shoulders then and saying wow have a look how big this kid is, how hard is he going to be at 23?

[Bulldog Revolution]

He's done all this, and more. So he definitely has secured his spot. He's been very important thus far after starting the year relatively quietly. Hopefully his good form continues.

Good call Griff, his mobility and agility inside the forward 50, particularly to tackle has improved enormously

If he can get his conversion up then he will become super damaging

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I think we all felt the same at the start of the season, yet he has now proved us wrong and is in top form. He leads the AFL stats for most tackles inside 50 and he is an important part of the forward line that has kicked more goals than any other team.

The importance of this stat cannot be understated. Our forward defensive pressure was appalling last year, and it's one of the areas that any good side aims to be dangerous in.
I would like to know how many goals we've scored as a result of our defensive pressure... either by directly tackling or causing a turnover through the defender being rushed to dispose of the ball.
incidentally this is one area where I think we need to bring our A game along when we play Hawks in a few weeks. They have so much strength up the ground that it's absolutely vital we cause them to turnover or make poor decisions when they have the ball in our defense.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Hahn has been good this year and I think that it's a fantastic sign that we are talking of a player of his capability not been in our best 22.
I would probably have him in the 22 as he gives us the hardness and yes at times he has poor kicking but we can live with that as he gives 100%.
I would love to know what the players thought, Would they want him standing next to them in the forward line or the likes of Eagle, Guido, Murphy

[GetDimmaBack]

I think he's become one of our crucial players.
Not many opposition players can hold him back and his kicking has improved incredibly this year. Game breaker!
Let's pray he doesn't get hurt - because then we'll really see his value!

[1eyedog]

I think most of us appreciate the robust style that Hahn goes about with his footy. He is almost a throwback from a more aggressive period of the game when Bulldog players were more noted for their hard at it approach than the leg speed reputation we now have.
As I watched the game today with Bulldog Revolution, it became apparent to me that Hahn is going to be a hard man to squeeze into the starting 18 if we have an almost full list to select from.

He is a reasonably good mark for his size but it isn't a strength by AFL standards.
Whilst he isn't slow he certainly isn't quick.
He can be used in the midfield for short bursts or in tagging assignments like he did last year on Chad Cornes to great effect but those roles are often few and far between.
And he certainly cannot get by on his skills.
There is also a query on his versatility and he wouldn't be regarded as a genuine footy smart player.

Perhaps in a team that had a couple of genuine key forwards, Hahn's bull at a gate style might open up opportunities for some smalls but with our set-up he is neither the marking, running or goal kicking option that we need.

If Murphy, Higgins, Johnson and Akermanis are going to spend significant minutes as mid and small forwards then I struggle to find a spot for Hahn.

His toughness is a real bonus but at the moment at best I see Hahn as a bench player.

I would be interested in everyones else thoughts.

Funny that Mitch was questioned like this at the start of the year, especially coming off a knee reco. People tend to forget the players who may lack skill or those players that are not as flexible on the ground as others. Mitch is one of our top 3 team players, everything he does is for the team, 100% and he does it hard (creates pressure and thus perceived pressure also). We need tough buggers like Mitch and I thought that stood out at the end of last year with our form slump, everyone was a passenger

[hujsh]

Purely for pressure would you rather a player like Davey who'll catch you unawares or Mitch who'll make you feel it?

[GVGjr]

Funny that Mitch was questioned like this at the start of the year, especially coming off a knee reco. People tend to forget the players who may lack skill or those players that are not as flexible on the ground as others. Mitch is one of our top 3 team players, everything he does is for the team, 100% and he does it hard (creates pressure and thus perceived pressure also). We need tough buggers like Mitch and I thought that stood out at the end of last year with our form slump, everyone was a passenger

It shows that he is a persistent player who when he is close to his best physically, can be a real handful to counter. I am glad that he has answered the challenge and then gone a step or two further.

[dog town]

It is pretty obvious that our more direct and instinctive style of play has helped him. He is playing essentially the same role he played in late 2005/early 2006 but he is doing it even better because we are winning the ball and sending it forward quickly. He and Murphy are really hitting the drop of the ball around CHF especially from those quick kicks out of the centre.

[1eyedog]

It shows that he is a persistent player who when he is close to his best physically, can be a real handful to counter. I am glad that he has answered the challenge and then gone a step or two further.

Indeed he has.

[1eyedog]

Purely for pressure would you rather a player like Davey who'll catch you unawares or Mitch who'll make you feel it?

Definately Hahn, all that's going to happen to you if Davey gets hold of you is you'll be pinged for holding the ball. The way Mitch goes he'll put you in hospital or on crutches needing a knee reco. The guy's only 6'2 but over 100 kg and he runs around like he don't know his own strength.

[The Coon Dog]

When you see those photo's of the perfect kicking style, somehow the pic below just doesn't quite make it. I guess it's like comparing a ute to a Rolls Royce.

http://www.realfooty.com.au/ffximage/2008/08/23/Bulldogs9_gallery__250x400.jpg

[westdog54]

What an apt comparison when the great C. Grant was known as the Rolls Royce.

Grant: All class, polish on everything, no faults.

Hahn: Sheer brute force and hard work, looks his best when doing the dirty work.

By God he was magnificent on Friday. He'd even be proud of your bump TCD.

[hujsh]

This is the thread i thought of after the match yesterday. Must have the highest percentage of his posessions contested in the comp

[LostDoggy]

Also a great view of the deplorable footwear that Footballers wear now. No wonder so many players slip over!

[wimberga]

Also a great view of the deplorable footwear that Footballers wear now. No wonder so many players slip over!

Used to wear the same boots. they arent great when the ground is wet and can slip. however, they are exrmely comfrotable, kick better than a boot (in my opinion) and i can say they stopped me getting blistters, maing reason i bought hem.

[bornadog]

I think most of us appreciate the robust style that Hahn goes about with his footy. He is almost a throwback from a more aggressive period of the game when Bulldog players were more noted for their hard at it approach than the leg speed reputation we now have.
As I watched the game today with Bulldog Revolution, it became apparent to me that Hahn is going to be a hard man to squeeze into the starting 18 if we have an almost full list to select from.

He is a reasonably good mark for his size but it isn't a strength by AFL standards.
Whilst he isn't slow he certainly isn't quick.
He can be used in the midfield for short bursts or in tagging assignments like he did last year on Chad Cornes to great effect but those roles are often few and far between.
And he certainly cannot get by on his skills.
There is also a query on his versatility and he wouldn't be regarded as a genuine footy smart player.

Perhaps in a team that had a couple of genuine key forwards, Hahn's bull at a gate style might open up opportunities for some smalls but with our set-up he is neither the marking, running or goal kicking option that we need.

If Murphy, Higgins, Johnson and Akermanis are going to spend significant minutes as mid and small forwards then I struggle to find a spot for Hahn.

His toughness is a real bonus but at the moment at best I see Hahn as a bench player.

I would be interested in everyones else thoughts.

Overall Mitch had a good year in 2008 and was very important to us particularly in the first half of the season when we were unbeaten. However, his form tapered off towards the end and in my opinion was very dissapointing in the finals series and really should have done more.

Where do you see him playing this season? Is the half forward flank his best position?

[ledge]

I actually want to see him in the backline , is that strange?

[Bulldog Revolution]

I actually want to see him in the backline , is that strange?

Are his days in the backline not over? Not quick enough and doesn't use the ball well enough.

If he could improve his marking/goal kicking he would become considerably more damaging player in the forward line

[bulldogsman]

I actually want to see him in the backline , is that strange?

Why? He is a gun in the forward line

[ledge]

Why? He is a gun in the forward line

I just think if these kids move into the forward line, some players have to make way and he is tough and hard, he would be nice smashing blokes about in the backline, making them earn a kick, i definitely wouldnt want him tagging me.

[azabob]

I just think if these kids move into the forward line, some players have to make way and he is tough and hard, he would be nice smashing blokes about in the backline, making them earn a kick, i definitely wouldnt want him tagging me.

I'd prefer to see him spend some time at ball ups around the ground.

[wimberga]

Someone like Hahn doesnt have a whole heap of versatility. Personally, I would like to see him stay in the forward line, but spring in to the centre bounes when we need some real grunt. Suprising a team at the first bounce by having Hahn tumble in is something worth considering.

[ledge]

Someone like Hahn doesnt have a whole heap of versatility. Personally, I would like to see him stay in the forward line, but spring in to the centre bounes when we need some real grunt. Suprising a team at the first bounce by having Hahn tumble in is something worth considering.

Funny that you just stated he doesnt have a lot of versatility but we have named him forward, back and middle in 3 posts :D
The bloke is the most versatile going around the way we are going.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Hope he has a good year as it could work in our favor with the gold-coast wanting a few plater to show the youngsters what it's all about.

mitch would be an Ideal fit for a couple of draft picks next year!!!

[strebla]

Hope he has a good year as it could work in our favor with the gold-coast wanting a few plater to show the youngsters what it's all about.

mitch would be an Ideal fit for a couple of draft picks next year!!!

I don't think Mitch is going anywhere half forward for me with quick bursts in the centre

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I was disappointed with Mitch in the Finals. Non-existant against Hawthorn and Geelong, when we really needed him. Particularly against the Cats, it was a poor effort.

He had a great season though, and for once was able to say injury free - the first time in his career, I believe?

He's an important player. He's a strong forward target that can create chances from nothing, bring other places into the game whilst being able to take strong grabs himself. Very underrated up forward, which is why he doesn't play a lot in the midfield.

[Go_Dogs]

I was disappointed with Mitch in the Finals. Non-existant against Hawthorn and Geelong, when we really needed him. Particularly against the Cats, it was a poor effort.

He had a great season though, and for once was able to say injury free - the first time in his career, I believe?

He's an important player. He's a strong forward target that can create chances from nothing, bring other places into the game whilst being able to take strong grabs himself. Very underrated up forward, which is why he doesn't play a lot in the midfield.

He is pretty handy up forward, but still needs to make more of the opportunities he creates. He's a difficult one, because his best work is probably at ground level around packs, hitting hard and gathering the ball, but often his skills let him down and he can't make the most of what he creates.

His marking has improved quite a lot over the past few seasons, so if he can get his set shot conversion rate up, and perhaps his fitness so he can crash more contests and chase harder in the forward line, he'll again be a very important player.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

He is pretty handy up forward, but still needs to make more of the opportunities he creates. He's a difficult one, because his best work is probably at ground level around packs, hitting hard and gathering the ball, but often his skills let him down and he can't make the most of what he creates.

His marking has improved quite a lot over the past few seasons, so if he can get his set shot conversion rate up, and perhaps his fitness so he can crash more contests and chase harder in the forward line, he'll again be a very important player.

Whilst Mitch isn't the best kick in the side, I don't think he's terrible. He's actually pretty decent from long range, though his miss v Geelong in the PF is an image I can't get out of my head. Nevertheless, in '08 he booted 34 goals, 23 behinds. It's not the best record going around, but it's not dreadful either. It must be noted a lot of his shots are under a lot of pressure, in and around the bottom of packs. IMO his kicking is OK, so long as it doesn't decline and get worse. I agree regarding his fitness but at his age, I'm not so sure he'll ever get much fitter.

[bornadog]

I think most of us appreciate the robust style that Hahn goes about with his footy. He is almost a throwback from a more aggressive period of the game when Bulldog players were more noted for their hard at it approach than the leg speed reputation we now have.
As I watched the game today with Bulldog Revolution, it became apparent to me that Hahn is going to be a hard man to squeeze into the starting 18 if we have an almost full list to select from.

He is a reasonably good mark for his size but it isn't a strength by AFL standards.
Whilst he isn't slow he certainly isn't quick.
He can be used in the midfield for short bursts or in tagging assignments like he did last year on Chad Cornes to great effect but those roles are often few and far between.
And he certainly cannot get by on his skills.
There is also a query on his versatility and he wouldn't be regarded as a genuine footy smart player.

Perhaps in a team that had a couple of genuine key forwards, Hahn's bull at a gate style might open up opportunities for some smalls but with our set-up he is neither the marking, running or goal kicking option that we need.

If Murphy, Higgins, Johnson and Akermanis are going to spend significant minutes as mid and small forwards then I struggle to find a spot for Hahn.

His toughness is a real bonus but at the moment at best I see Hahn as a bench player.

I would be interested in everyones else thoughts.

Time to revisit this thread.

Mitch is extremely out of form, and the Coaching staff have been patient with him, but he is still not hitting his straps. Should he be dropped to find some form or do we persist with him, or find a new role?

Thoughts

[The Coon Dog]

Time to revisit this thread.

Mitch is extremely out of form, and the Coaching staff have been patient with him, but he is still not hitting his straps. Should he be dropped to find some form or do we persist with him, or find a new role?

Thoughts

I think it's time to give him a run with Williamstown.

[bulldogtragic]

I think it's time to give him a run with Williamstown.
I think he needs so confidence Willi could give him. Frankston this week really wouldn;t have anyone for him, and let him run loose HFF and closer.

[The Pie Man]

It's not a cut our losses scenario with Mitch, he still has a role to play, but should've been dropped 1-2 weeks ago to regain confidence. Like Ward last week, he should go back and dominate for a week or two.

[1eyedog]

Agree with some of the early posts in this thread before the season started that he should have a run in the middle, kind of in the Brad Sewell mould. Worth a try although I know he will only be in there for short bursts because he doesn't have a huge engine. Maybe a change of environment in there will make a difference, If not there is no other alternative than releasing the valve at Willy.

[Ozza]

Unfortunately Mitch jsut doesn't get the footy in the middle and he doesn't use it well either.
He needs to be up forward - but he also needs to be much better defensively - and of course GET THE FOOTY!

Desperately needs 2 weeks at Willi. A few blokes - such as Mitch - need to know their spots aren't guaranteed every week.

[Go_Dogs]

Is Mitch fit enough to provide some blocking work in the middle for Griff and Cooney, for maybe 5-10 mins a qtr?

[1eyedog]

Is Mitch fit enough to provide some blocking work in the middle for Griff and Cooney, for maybe 5-10 mins a qtr?

Well that's what I'm thinking. He tackles well too and who cares about his skill level in there? Kick for meterage or dish out a quick handball to our midfield guns.

[Rocco Jones]

I fear that his career is cooked to be honest. His 'crash and bash' style has taken a massive toll on his body and I think he might be another Aaron Hamill. His weaknesses are even more glaring in the modern game.

[Mantis]

Well that's what I'm thinking. He tackles well too and who cares about his skill level in there? Kick for meterage or dish out a quick handball to our midfield guns.

We are already winning the centre clearances. It doesn't help much when we are already kicking the ball the way you describe to an under-sized and often out-numbered forwardline. We need guys in there who can burst away such that he spot up a leading target, not guys who kick and hope.

[Go_Dogs]

We are already winning the centre clearances. It doesn't help much when we are already kicking the ball the way you describe to an under-sized and often out-numbered forwardline. We need guys in there who can burst away such that he spot up a leading target, not guys who kick and hope.

But what if we went from a 50/50 split with clearances from the burst type v in and under type, to allowing much more burst clearances from guys like Cooney, Griffen etc?

The solution suggested isn't play Mitch in the middle because he's a burst player, or a fantastic kick, but because he might free up and create more space for our skillful, explosive types.

[1eyedog]

I fear that his career is cooked to be honest. His 'crash and bash' style has taken a massive toll on his body and I think he might be another Aaron Hamill. His weaknesses are even more glaring in the modern game.

Do you actually know this or are making an assumption?

[Rocco Jones]

Do you actually know this or are making an assumption?

I should have placed 'I think' before it but I think it's pretty obvious that his style has taken a toll on his body during his career. With his weaknesses he has a very small margin for error and I see him as a very old 27. I really hope I am wrong but I have been worried about his longevity for awhile.

[Mitcha]

Big Mitch's value to the side is as an impact player. He is never going to get 25-30 possies in a game, more like 12-15 including an occasional bag of 2 or 3 goals. He can e relied upon to chase and tackle and lay the big blocks to create space for our more fleet of foot mid size players. Unfortunately because the side is not travelling well at the moment the spotlight tends to fall on the ones not getting the big numbers. I agree he is not in career best form but I will happily stick with him for a while yet. Remember we dont have that many big bodies that can play the role he does up forward.

[Rocco Jones]

Big Mitch's value to the side is as an impact player. He is never going to get 25-30 possies in a game, more like 12-15 including an occasional bag of 2 or 3 goals. He can e relied upon to chase and tackle and lay the big blocks to create space for our more fleet of foot mid size players. Unfortunately because the side is not travelling well at the moment the spotlight tends to fall on the ones not getting the big numbers. I agree he is not in career best form but I will happily stick with him for a while yet. Remember we dont have that many big bodies that can play the role he does up forward.

I agree that a player like Mitch doesn't have to get a lot of the ball to add value but is his body up to consistently getting into position to chase, tackle and block. I hear a lot of fans saying he has physical presence, but don't you have to be able to present to have physical presence? Either way, he is an absolute liability at the moment.

[boydogs]

To me he seems horribly out of form, he can't seem to get into the game, and would benefit from a stint at Williamstown. I don't understand why we have kept him in the seniors the past few weeks. I have not heard any mention of injury, so would hope that 2 weeks for Williamstown and he can be back to his old self

[BulldogBelle]

This season, apart from the game against Fremantle, Mitch simply hasnt been himself

He rarely puts his arms in the air to contest a mark (prob courtesy of the shoulder reco a few years ago) and barely gets of the ground in a marking contest (knee reco)

He isnt chasing with energy and zest in the forward 50, he isnt bumping and laying as many bone crunching tackles as he has previously

Seems that he is content with trying to take the contests when the ball is along the ground and he can take it on the half volley, but not much more

I'm a big fan of Mitch and would love to see him in our side, and definately think he is in our best side, but all season he hasnt been doing the things that he is being paid to do

He is the sort of player that can win an inspirational hard ball and lift his team mates, but just hasnt been doing this all season

[bornadog]

This season, apart from the game against Fremantle, Mitch simply hasnt been himself

He rarely puts his arms in the air to contest a mark (prob courtesy of the shoulder reco a few years ago) and barely gets of the ground in a marking contest (knee reco)

He isnt chasing with energy and zest in the forward 50, he isnt bumping and laying as many bone crunching tackles as he has previously

Seems that he is content with trying to take the contests when the ball is along the ground and he can take it on the half volley, but not much more

I'm a big fan of Mitch and would love to see him in our side, and definately think he is in our best side, but all season he hasnt been doing the things that he is being paid to do

He is the sort of player that can win an insirational ball and lift his team mates, but just hasnt been doing this all season

He copped a knock in the North game and has not been the same since. Could we be playing him injured?

[Rocco Jones]

This season, apart from the game against Fremantle, Mitch simply hasnt been himself


He wasn't even that good in that game outside of a great purple patch.


He copped a knock in the North game and has not been the same since. Could we be playing him injured?


Eade has played Hahn injured before and if he is doing so again, I think it's a very bad idea. Even when Hahn was at his best, the amount of weaknesses he has mean he has a small margin for error.

[Mofra]

Eade has played Hahn injured before and if he is doing so again, I think it's a very bad idea. Even when Hahn was at his best, the amount of weaknesses he has mean he has a small margin for error.
Have to agree, even before you consider Cooney & Murphy (arguably our two most naturally gifted players) are still finding their way back to full fitness.

[Dazza]

Mentioned this in another thread but I think Grant has to come in to replace Hahn until he finds form with Williamstown. While Grant doesn't have the physicality to play in hanhs role he is very fast and could provide us with some much needed f50 pressure. Would have loved having Grant in last week to put the pressure on players like Gram streaming out of the f50.

[Jasper]

He's a player that I rate but he is struggling at the moment. I'm not sure why he isn't given a week or two at Williamstown to regain some form.

[Mantis]

He copped a knock in the North game and has not been the same since. Could we be playing him injured?

I think we might have been.

[bornadog]

I think we might have been.

Don't like playing, players injured when there are others knocking on the door.

[Mantis]

Don't like playing, players injured when there are others knocking on the door.

But know-one else on the list offers what he can with his physicality.

[bornadog]

But know-one else on the list offers what he can with his physicality.

Hasn't been evident in the last few weeks, oh, wait he is injured so doesn't go in as hard.:D

[Mofra]

Hasn't been evident in the last few weeks, oh, wait he is injured so doesn't go in as hard.:D
You're touching on a very valid point though - hard to assert yourself physically when you can't get to as many contests.

[hujsh]

Now that Hall is here the role of Hahn will be interesting. Will he remain a FF with Hall up the field or will they both play deep taking some of the pressure of playing on the good fullbacks off Hahn?

Maybe we should look at getting a trade for him as stevew9 suggested?

I can't imagine him playing too many different roles.

[Rocco Jones]

I think he is in trouble but I have thought that for awhile. His game against the Saints in the Prelim was great but his valuable games are too few and far between. I would only consider playing him when he is cherry ripe. While I hope we don't need him in our best 22, I am happy for him to be there as a back up and to keep those ahead of him honest.

[Jasper]

Not a fan of Mitch:

Had a reasonable few minutes in the prelim, didn't turn up against Geelong.

-poor below his knees and fumbles under pressure - it was his turnover that went to Thomas that cost us the one point game against Collingwood

-He is slow and struggles to get to contests

He doesn't have a great tank.

He is only average overhead but will carve up lesser opponents as displayed against Ess and Freo.

Positives are he does bullocking work, but thats why we recruited Barry. However, if Barry goes down (a 50 / 50 chance given his temperament and age) we probably need Mitch to play a similar role, so I imagine we are keeping him, but hopefully, one of Everitt, Cordy, Grant or Roughhead develops to take his spot.

Personally and its fantasy and wrong for a bundle of reasons, would love to trade him to Carlton as part of a deal for Fev, but not going to happen. :o

[The Doctor]

I would only consider playing him when he is cherry ripe. While I hope we don't need him in our best 22, I am happy for him to be there as a back up and to keep those ahead of him honest.


I agree with this.

Hahn's body doesn't seem capable of allowing him to play week in and week out. When he plays well we usually win but that is too infrequent. He does seem to struggle for both mobility and agility at times and often plays like he's injured. Perhaps resting him for periods during the season, like American baseball teams do with certain players, might get the best out of him more frequently. It is arguable this strategy might work for a few of our other veteran forwards.

[GVGjr]

I agree with this.

Hahn's body doesn't seem capable of allowing him to play week in and week out. When he plays well we usually win but that is too infrequent. He does seem to struggle for both mobility and agility at times and often plays like he's injured. Perhaps resting him for periods during the season, like American baseball teams do with certain players, might get the best out of him more frequently. It is arguable this strategy might work for a few of our other veteran forwards.

What role do you seem him being used at next season? Is he still likely to be in our best 22 each week?

[dog town]

The games he dominated this year were mainly against smaller or less robust opponents. I understand that Hall will not help him in terms of positioning and space on the forward line but I think it will give him more mismatches to exploit. Not writing him off.

[The Doctor]

What role do you seem him being used at next season? Is he still likely to be in our best 22 each week?


Similar to the role he played this year but less often.

[The Doctor]

The game dominated this year were mainly against smaller or less robust opponents. I understand that Hall will not help him in terms of positioning and space on the forward line but I think it will give him more mismatches to exploit. Not writing him off.

Excellent counter DT.

My concern is his mobility and agility as stated in my post previously. Additionally, in response to your views, in finals he has been exposed against quality opposition. Especially against Geelong. Most opponents in finals are very good players so it's harder for him to pick on a weak opponent consequently this renders his value to us all the less.

[FrediKanoute]

Mitch is an interesting one, because it is less the flamboyant things he does which make him so important, but more of the lesser things. Its the bollocking a path, its the bringing the ball to ground, its the fact that he demands a quality defender. Yes he has bad games, but then every guy in the team does.

WHere I think Mitch will struggle next year is on a team balance basis. Can we fit Hall, Minson and Hahn into the side? For me that is the essence of the problem. All aren't blessed with pace and Mitch's problem is that he's not an out and out FF so it leaves him short of a possie.

[dog town]

Excellent counter DT.

My concern is his mobility and agility as stated in my post previously. Additionally, in response to your views, in finals he has been exposed against quality opposition. Especially against Geelong. Most opponents in finals are very good players so it's harder for him to pick on a weak opponent consequently this renders his value to us all the less. I certainly agree with all of that. He is one of those players who needs a a few things going right for him. He was exposed against quality opposition for much of the year but against the saints he had a few match ups go his way. He was too aggressive and physical for his early opponents up the ground even though he was match for size. The he went deep with Goddard and was a bit big and strong for him. It is hard to manufacture this situation against teams like Geelong and Collingwood. The saints had an excellent defensive record as a team but one on one they are maybe not as strong as some. It will be up to Rocket to work out what suits Mitch and what doesn't. This may take some pressure off Mitch.

[Sedat]

The saints had an excellent defensive record as a team but one on one they are maybe not as strong as some.
Their defensive record was the result of conceding 30-35 inside 50's per match on average hence their defenders were rarely caught one-on-one during the course of a match. Against us in the prelim they conceded 57 inside 50's - guys like Goddard and Gilbert especially were torched by their direct opponents one-out as a result of the frequency of the incoming ball.

[dog town]

Their defensive record was the result of conceding 30-35 inside 50's per match on average hence their defenders were rarely caught one-on-one during the course of a match. Against us in the prelim they conceded 57 inside 50's - guys like Goddard and Gilbert especially were torched by their direct opponents one-out as a result of the frequency of the incoming ball. Yep spot on. They still got great team support that night at times. Most times we got a one on one we looked dangerous.

[Rocco Jones]

Their defensive record was the result of conceding 30-35 inside 50's per match on average hence their defenders were rarely caught one-on-one during the course of a match. Against us in the prelim they conceded 57 inside 50's - guys like Goddard and Gilbert especially were torched by their direct opponents one-out as a result of the frequency of the incoming ball.

Exactly. It amuses me when fans simply attribute a team's for/against to their forward line/back line.

[Scorlibo]

I think he has a role in the team which he plays very well. Its true that he struggles to get to contests and struggles to get off the ground because of a number of defficiencies, but once he does get to those contests you rarely if ever see him beaten.

His ability to force two opponents or more onto himself in their attempt to arrest the ball from him is perhaps taken for granted in its rarity. Others from our team who can do this (effectively take 2-3 opposition players out of the play) are Griffen and to a lesser extent Cooney. Its not something any team has in abundance, and it all too often results in scoring opportunities downfield.

I agree also with the general sentiment that Hall's addition will allow Hahn to take advantage of smaller players.

[Doc26]

Mitch does provide a point of difference up forward and could continue to be used increasingly as a fwd pinch hitter. With Scott Welsh now gone we migt be less vulnerable up fwd now in making legitimate fwd contests due to lack of endurance and leg speed. I believe Mitch's stock is still sound akin to what Clarkson saw Dew offering the Hawks in '08.

[Mantis]

Mitch does provide a point of difference up forward and could continue to be used increasingly as a fwd pinch hitter. With Scott Welsh now gone we migt be less vulnerable up fwd now in making legitimate fwd contests due to lack of endurance and leg speed. I believe Mitch's stock is still sound akin to what Clarkson saw Dew offering the Hawks in '08.

Hasn't that been his role for atleast the last 4 or 5 years?

[Doc26]

Hasn't that been his role for atleast the last 4 or 5 years?


Yes. Hence the reason I included the word 'increasingly'.

The fact we have lacked a key position tall forward has placed a lot more pressure on the likes of Mitch to fill the void.

[Go_Dogs]

Interesting discussions here, and certainly going to be a very interesting year for Mitch. I suspect it may be his last.

To offer a counter view that Hahn may struggle for a role now that Hall has arrived, we need to remember that Minson and Hahn have both worked together in our forward line over the past 2 years. Obviously not on a full time basis, but I think it demonstrates that Hahn can work in conjunction with another tall target in the F50. (It would actually be a very interesting comparative analysis to see how effective Hahn has been at times with and w/o Minson).

[bulldogtragic]

What role do you seem him being used at next season? Is he still likely to be in our best 22 each week?
I'm not convinced he's best 22 anymore. Perhaps top 26, but Aker, Johno, Gia and Higgo can all play different roles. I'd prefer decent games into Grant or another young tall on the 2nd or 3rd best defender, than a one dimensional Hahn.

Time is coming quick. I feel he won't get passed next year.

[Ozza]

I'm not convinced he's best 22 anymore. Perhaps top 26, but Aker, Johno, Gia and Higgo can all play different roles. I'd prefer decent games into Grant or another young tall on the 2nd or 3rd best defender, than a one dimensional Hahn.

Time is coming quick. I feel he won't get passed next year.

Unless Grant is beating the door down - I'd be sticking with Hahn.

[BulldogBelle]

Mitch is sure to feel the squeeze in 2010. With his deficiencies all listed above, he won't be able to keep out all our young tall prospects that should be cracking the side soon.

[bulldogtragic]

Unless Grant is beating the door down - I'd be sticking with Hahn.
A young tall knocking the door down is what my sub-conscious is hoping for...

[EasternWest]

Interesting discussions here, and certainly going to be a very interesting year for Mitch. I suspect it may be his last

If next year is Mitch's last year then I think he can be fairly satisfied with what he's got out of himself and what we've got out of him. I for one think maybe two more years. That would put him around 200 games and really, given that he's neither fast or overly skilled, he has sucked everything out of his ability. He will have done his job and should be remembered fondly by the club and fans.

But I'm not retiring him just yet... :)

[AndrewP6]

I reckon next year could be it. So much talk here (and yes, I know it's just talk!) about his deficiencies, the game passing him by etc... Don't wish an early finish to his career, but 12 months more might be it. Hope not though.

[Hotdog60]

Could he develop a role as a hard nose rover around Barry, if Barry doesn't mark the pill Mitch runs the straight line on the ball to either gather and shoot or force the ball out into the open for the outside players to swoop.
So basically he goes where Barry goes, if Barry takes the mark he peels off to be a spare option and take a defender with him.
The other thing is could he drop into defense would there be a role there for him.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Stats from Footewire:

2009
Games: 25
Kicks: 200 = + 11 on '08
Handballs: 158 = + 24 on '08
Disposals: 358 = + 35 on '08
Marks: 101 = + 21 on '08
Goals: 38 = + 4 on '08
Behinds: 14 = Better conversion
Tackles: 86 = + 5 on '08

2008
Games: 25
Kicks: 189
Handballs: 134
Disposals: 323
Marks: 80
Goals: 34
Behinds: 23
Tackles: 81

I find this interesting. I thought Hahn was much better in 2008 than in 2009, but the stats clearly suggest otherwise. He's improved in all areas and especially conversion - despite having less shots. Whilst we all know stats aren't the be all and end all, the club wouldn't share the same thoughts as many of us - righty or wrongly - based on these (which they look at).

2010 will certainly be an interesting year for Mitch. I see him becoming better with Hall's inclusion or completely dropping out of the best 22.

[EasternWest]

What's Mitch's contract status?

It might be win/win for both clubs and player if we allow GC17 to look at him for season 11. He would probably be close to being pushed out of our best 22 by then, but could be just the thing for a young inexperienced team like them. Tough, hard bodied and experienced.

[The Coon Dog]

What's Mitch's contract status?

It might be win/win for both clubs and player if we allow GC17 to look at him for season 11. He would probably be close to being pushed out of our best 22 by then, but could be just the thing for a young inexperienced team like them. Tough, hard bodied and experienced.

Another year on & unfortunately there would be zero trade value whatsoever.

[bulldogtragic]

Another year on & unfortunately there would be zero trade value whatsoever.
Sorry TCD, is he contracted until the end of next year or the end of 2011?

[The Coon Dog]

Sorry TCD, is he contracted until the end of next year or the end of 2011?

Sorry, I don't know.

Oops, it did work the first time!

[EasternWest]

Another year on & unfortunately there would be zero trade value whatsoever.

Oh, no, I wasn't referring to trade value. I realise that. Don't GC get a free crack at one uncontracted player from every club? I thought if it was to be Mitch, it could work out to be good for both clubs. We are not forced to delist a good servant or our club, and GC gets the benefit of his experience and hardness. Plus Mitch gets to be a foundation player there, something he could no doubt look back fondly on in his later days and finish his career in his home state.

[chef]

Sorry, I don't know.

Oops, it did work the first time!

He has one more year to run on a three year contract. Carlton went pretty hard at him at the end of 2007, but he resisted and signed on with the Dogs for three years(if my memory serves me correctly).

[bulldogtragic]

He has one more year to run on a three year contract. Carlton went pretty hard at him at the end of 2007, but he resisted and signed on with the Dogs for three years(if my memory serves me correctly).
That rings a bell. With GC17 getting one uncontracted player, lets hope they go after him pretty hard and not our stars...

[Sockeye Salmon]

That rings a bell. With GC17 getting one uncontracted player, lets hope they go after him pretty hard and not our stars...

That might be the reason James Mulligan was offered an upgrade

[bulldogtragic]

That might be the reason James Mulligan was offered an upgrade
Ahh.

Shame we didn't keep O'Shea. Clayton could have gotten that top 10 draftee he said we were getting.

[EasternWest]

That rings a bell. With GC17 getting one uncontracted player, lets hope they go after him pretty hard and not our stars...

Correct. And I reiterate that the situation would suit all interested parties to a tee. I love that Mitch has basically forced his unlikely body and limited skills into an elite footballer. I would hate for him to end up on our scrapheap and think that opportunity would allow him to leave with dignity. Plus he would add great value to GC17 for a year or two.

[bornadog]

I think most of us appreciate the robust style that Hahn goes about with his footy. He is almost a throwback from a more aggressive period of the game when Bulldog players were more noted for their hard at it approach than the leg speed reputation we now have.
As I watched the game today with Bulldog Revolution, it became apparent to me that Hahn is going to be a hard man to squeeze into the starting 18 if we have an almost full list to select from.

He is a reasonably good mark for his size but it isn't a strength by AFL standards.
Whilst he isn't slow he certainly isn't quick.
He can be used in the midfield for short bursts or in tagging assignments like he did last year on Chad Cornes to great effect but those roles are often few and far between.
And he certainly cannot get by on his skills.
There is also a query on his versatility and he wouldn't be regarded as a genuine footy smart player.

Perhaps in a team that had a couple of genuine key forwards, Hahn's bull at a gate style might open up opportunities for some smalls but with our set-up he is neither the marking, running or goal kicking option that we need.

If Murphy, Higgins, Johnson and Akermanis are going to spend significant minutes as mid and small forwards then I struggle to find a spot for Hahn.

His toughness is a real bonus but at the moment at best I see Hahn as a bench player.

I would be interested in everyones else thoughts.

so true going into the first 4 rounds.

[Desipura]

Mitch is the type of player who cannot afford to play when he carrying an injury. For his sake, I sort of hope this is the reason his form has been so ordinary (aside from the Richmond game).

[Mantis]

Bar the odd game Mitch has turned into a bit of a flat track bully.

I guess he will never be the type who consistently gathers 20+ possessions, but we really do need more from him.

[BulldogBelle]

Bar the odd game Mitch has turned into a bit of a flat track bully.

I guess he will never be the type who consistently gathers 20+ possessions, but we really do need more from him.


Agree to an extent

Wasnt he the leading goalkicker for our finals series last year (Brisbane and St Kilda games he played well)?

But during the H&A he only seems to play well against the teams with the younger lists

Not sure if he is injured, but he doesnt chase, tackle, harras, throw his body at the football or sprint much these days...

[LostDoggy]

When he's on he offers us so much but of late he has been few and far between.

Though he's no Robinson Crusoe there.

Funny when the media talk about our '2 fwds' they talk of Hall and Hahn (was an article a month or so back comparing the 2 fwds from each team).

I never really thought of him that way??
Though we've never had a specific fwd - we've always made do with many hands making light work.