WB Game Day V Melbourne - 2021 AAMI Community Series

[comrade]

Fair call - we are who we are. The out the back stuff is going to happen.

I guess the frustration comes out of a - have we addressed any of our key issues? We have with the ruck and we're already seeing benefits from it, why not in other areas?

B - the other question is do we think we can contend, or should be contending? I'd like us to, by this stage I expected us to be contending, but with our current flaws I don't think we can.

It's going to be an interesting year for us.

The first half was complete dross. Over possession, diabolical forward entries, easy transitions from our forward 50. I'm glad we were able to right the ship after half time off the back of Bont going supernova and our mature mids completely dominating a VFL level midfield (outside Gawn and Petracca) but that first half showed that we are too deficient in too many phases of the game.

Like the past few years, we'll beat up the Kangaroos and Crows, and likely be found wanting when we face the really good teams.

[HOSE B ROMERO]

Just a few notes on things I observed today.

First half we were slow on the release hands and just clumsy ball use on turnover created all of their scores. Looked like we were second guessing ourselves and tripping over each others feet when we had the ball on the rebound. We must have blown 3-4 rebound opportunities in open field with small errors.

Ball getting over the back of contests time and time again. Our interceptors are already behind most of the comp so when we go if we don't mark it we need to make sure the ball comes forward or even side ways. It gets over the back far too often for us and was resposnsible for some of our goals.

We smashed them around the ball but when Melbourne did win it they walked through us especially in the first half. They were able to link handballs and seem to get players forward of the ball.

Ball use going inside 50 looked a bit off. Seemed to get better as the game went on but we kicked long too much early I thought. I also think we looked a bit rushed when we took a mark around the 50, nothing wrong with holding the ball and letting something develop with the new rule because you can either punch a low kick or crib 10 metres to create a shot.

Tackling was very good at times I thought. You really have to nail your tackles with the new rules, if you have a chance to turn the ball back your way or create a spill you need to take it.

If the holding the ball rule is adjudicated like that all year we will butcher some sides inside. It looked like they are giving team a bit longer on the ball which allows our guys to wrestle control and feed it out.

Seemed to be a real mix of players going through different roles but we have scope to do even more of that. We had Lipinski inside and out, Hunter in 2-3 roles, some players seem to disappear for long periods. With the 75 interchange are we going to try and run players through different posiitons and out last sides for sheer numbers we can put through positions? Its too early to tell where the opportunities are with the rule but it wouldn't surprise me if we were looking at it.

We felt way too big with 3 talls but it looks like we will persist with it. When Naughton went off Keath went forward so that indicates that we want to stick with it. Will help if we fix or improve connection issues to elmimate getting burnt on the way out, have to mark the ball when we use 3 talls and Wallis though. Wouldn't underestimate the impact Melbournes two pillars had on our performance either, May was awesome last year and Lever was getting better as the year went on.

Wallis- Very quiet and I can hardly remember seeing him as a leading target for the kicker. I hope he doesn't try to be too unselfish in his new role. Tried hard and seem to get a bit cleaner around the ball as it went on.

Bont- Best ball use game for a long time, cant ask for much more than that. Seemed to keep his feet more as well. Was expecting him to have more forward time.

Dunkley- Went under the radar but thought he was very good. Strong inside, great starting positions and body work around the stoppages especially on the defensive side of the stoppage. Bit rusty early but worked into it well and really got hold of them around the ball.

Smith- Tried hard but was a bit messy with the ball. Some of the handballs were really poor just trying to keep the ball in motion.

Hunter- Very interesting game, used forward mostly where I think he is dangerous. He has clever ball use, closes exits quickly, can pressure and creates shots on goal (himself and others) BUT....he needs to either kick the goals himself or hit those short targets or its not worth what we lose in other spots.

Martin- Impressed with his centre bounce work, I went back and watched most of his games from last year and 2019 and he rarely played that well at the bounces against the very best. His boundary work is never in question he finds front spot most times. English has to play reagrdless so in my view it is just a matter of how many tall forwards we carry. Martin should ruck most of the game when fit but we will need to rest him at times during the year.

Crozier- Thought he was good but thought it was a bit of the same old for us in the intercepting roles. As brave as he is too often he flies and we don't mark it or control it. It is something the top 4-5 sides do much better than us over the last few years and something I will watch closely. I hesitate to criticise him because his selflessness and effort is something we need, it is more a comment of comparison to the players in those roles at other clubs.

Macrae- Very good, used it well, got forward of the ball well too.

Bruce- Looked much better once Naughton went off but still struggling with timing of his leads. Seemed to be trying to draw it deep and out the back early but it wasn't syncing with the kickers. Will come under pressure if Naughton is fit and playing forward. I think English is a lock for forward.

Gardiner- Solid game in my view, rarely got beaten one on one and the goals he conceded were mostly out the back. Defended and spoiled with intent on the high ball.

Williams- Biggest highlight for me. I wasn't as happy with him last year as others because I thought his defensive efforts were lacking which we can't have as a medium defender. He won 1 on 1s nearly every time, still used it well and positioned really well to intercept. My concern with him is match ups, ALWAYS struggles when he ends up on the best opposition small/medium eg: Martin, Petracca.

Dale- Looks good on paper today having 2 goals from half back but his errors cost us some scores. Its the duck of the head as he appraoches a crucial ground ball, missed tackles that always stand out with him for me. Understand why we play him in other roles because I am not sure he can play forward with Wallis and 3 talls. He definitely cant play out of the square which is his most effective position. Left his man well a few times which I thought showed some buy in to the role.

Lipinski- Looked very good inside even though he was often playing on a wing. When he got the ball out of stoppages he was able to take away cleanly and use it really well. Can he push someone else out of the midfield and give us more flexibility?

English- Obviously struggled a few times under the high ball when May moved him but when he is moving he is a major issue for opposiiton defenders. Needs to convert his opportunities. Feels like he and Bruce are able to stay out of each others way but Bruce and Naughton are not.

Do you think you could expand on this Dog town?

[jeemak]

Fair call - we are who we are. The out the back stuff is going to happen.

I guess the frustration comes out of a - have we addressed any of our key issues? We have with the ruck and we're already seeing benefits from it, why not in other areas?

B - the other question is do we think we can contend, or should be contending? I'd like us to, by this stage I expected us to be contending, but with our current flaws I don't think we can.

It's going to be an interesting year for us.

Honestly I have no idea whether we have gotten the balance between coaching/ development versus bringing in other players to address our weaknesses outside of the ruck right, but think this is the year where we should be able to tell whether we have.

To your second question it's easy to say we should be contending, but every time someone does they follow it up with a shopping list or myriad reasons why we shouldn't be......lack of desire/ accountability, shaky defence, poor forward of centre system and delivery to the forward line, a lack of small pressure forwards and too many similar players running through the middle. If all of these are issues, and our coaching/ development path hasn't made up the ground required in lieu of not having heavily recruited to to do so, then we probably shouldn't be considered contenders.

But, if our faith in our coaching/ development is well placed and we do improve as an emerging list then things might change.

[Bulldog Joe]

It is clear from this game that Stefan Martin makes us a better team, however English is showing no real sign of being the ruckman we (I) am hoping for.

Caleb Daniel looks even better and that is certainly a good prospect.

Lipinski was encouraging.

We certainly looked better after half time, but Melbourne were well below strength.

My concern is that our ball movement was substandard and we do not help our forward line be efficient.

[jeemak]

I'm hearing Melbourne wasn't at full strength a bit, and that's fair enough. Nor were we, but you'd argue they weren't more than we weren't.

So what was the pass mark if not 6-7 goals for today? We lost a couple of players throughout, I think they did too. Did we achieve a pass mark?

You can only beat or lose to whoever is put in front of you, I think today we comprehensively beat Melbourne albeit looked a bit ordinary with our conversion in the first half - allowing them to kick a few on the back of that in conjunction with a loss of concentration.

If I compare that to how some preseason games have gone in the past I'm pretty happy. As another poster pointed out they have excellent/ elite defenders in May and Leaver, and we managed to find a way to score around them. They also have the best/ one of the best rucks in the comp.

We've set ourselves up well for a confident run into round one. I can't wait for the season to start!

[Dry Rot]

Forgive my I ignorance but what is a hip pointer?

Shaun Higgins pointing to a stain on his team mate's shorts.

[Ghost Dog]

Good effort boys. Bont as usual.
Nathan Jones. I was kind of cheering for him. What a warrior! Been at it a while now. Through the dark days of Melbourne.
Anyway glad we walked over them.
Bruce's kicking is funny. Still not sure about him.
Some good new faces.
Bont is going for the Brownlow this year.

[jazzadogs]

Bont actually looked fit which is exciting. He was running freely and able to hit top pace. He and Dunkley work so well together in the midfield.

Overuse of handball was extremely frustrating. There was a passage on halfback, halfway through the last, where there was an option to kick 40m to Bazlenka in the clear on the wing - it would have been the classic play which happens against us all the time. Instead we chained together four handballs (Macrae, Hunter, and kicked long to a contest. Frustrating.

McNeill was fine but Cavarra was better. Scott was good but Duryea is better. Khamis was great across the two games, I think he will find himself playing sooner rather than later.

[Happy Days]

I don’t know how you couldn’t leave that game feeling encouraged. Despite their two best players both being key defenders and playing very good games, we were still able to generate 30 scoring shots and looked like scoring with every entry in the second half. Conversely, Melbourne’s entries were generally miserable and I think we had to have played some role in that, their total lack of key targets or any player of ability up front notwithstanding (lol suck it Dees).

Good to see Bont has put aside his scratch match performance which I’m sure he was devastated by and looks to have picked up where he left off after the bye last year as the best player in the league.

[GVGjr]

Bont actually looked fit which is exciting. He was running freely and able to hit top pace. He and Dunkley work so well together in the midfield.

Overuse of handball was extremely frustrating. There was a passage on halfback, halfway through the last, where there was an option to kick 40m to Bazlenka in the clear on the wing - it would have been the classic play which happens against us all the time. Instead we chained together four handballs (Macrae, Hunter, and kicked long to a contest. Frustrating.

McNeill was fine but Cavarra was better. Scott was good but Duryea is better. Khamis was great across the two games, I think he will find himself playing sooner rather than later.

The depth in his kicking was really noticeable as well

[Happy Days]

The depth in his kicking was really noticeable as well

Best kick in the world.

[bornadog]

Will Treloar get a kick :D

Jack Macrae: 39 disposals
Caleb Daniel: 34 disposals
Marcus Bontempelli: 32 disposals
Josh Dunkley: 32 disposals
Tom Liberatore: 31 disposals

[Mofra]

I think you are very close to the mark because it would be hard to drop McNeil but is he any better than 50/50 for round 1?
I read that Wood will play in a VFL game so that will shape the back line and it will be a nervous wait to hear about Vandermeer, Naughton and Crozier but we have plenty of depth. I also think the club has a but of faith that Treloar will be available

Competition for spots is a great thing
A mature ageder who had to bust a chance just get his toenail onto the rookie list?
VDM probably won't be risked and McNeill has genuine paces. Plus he tackles.

Scott, Bedendo, Khamis would be the first guys out I'd imagine depending on injury. Even Scott's a sneaky chance to play, although I suspect Wood gets up for Crozier then JJ and Treloar are named.

[Grantysghost]

I'm hearing Melbourne wasn't at full strength a bit, and that's fair enough. Nor were we, but you'd argue they weren't more than we weren't.

So what was the pass mark if not 6-7 goals for today? We lost a couple of players throughout, I think they did too. Did we achieve a pass mark?

I think it was around par, maybe a birdie to borrow Wallace's system. It was exactly what I wanted to see, my biggest concern was conversion in the first half but we corrected, and the injuries.

Melbourne were missing a few from their best team notably :

Oliver, Viney, Brayshaw, Weideman, Melskham, Salem, Hibberd, Ben Brown.

So any analysis has to bear this in mind. We had some outs too of course but think Melbourne will be a very different prospect in the real season. Not sure about their depth though.



We've set ourselves up well for a confident run into round one. I can't wait for the season to start!

Exactly my sentiments, bring it on!

[GVGjr]

Will Treloar get a kick :D

Jack Macrae: 39 disposals
Caleb Daniel: 34 disposals
Marcus Bontempelli: 32 disposals
Josh Dunkley: 32 disposals
Tom Liberatore: 31 disposals

You are comparing him to midfielders, Bevo will play him off half back :)
He will get more than that :)

[comrade]

You are comparing him to midfielders, Bevo will play him off half back :)
He will get more than that :)

Did you see the interview with Treloar after his VFL hitout? Said it was his first time across half back in who knows how long and is looking forward to seeing what plans Bevo has for him, as he isn't sure where he'll be playing yet. Always keep 'em guessing, Bevo :D

[1eyedog]

Did you see the interview with Treloar after his VFL hitout? Said it was his first time across half back in who knows how long and is looking forward to seeing what plans Bevo has for him, as he isn't sure where he'll be playing yet. Always keep 'em guessing, Bevo :D

If Treloar plays half back under the new rules he'll get 50 possies.

[Grantysghost]

Did you see the interview with Treloar after his VFL hitout? Said it was his first time across half back in who knows how long and is looking forward to seeing what plans Bevo has for him, as he isn't sure where he'll be playing yet. Always keep 'em guessing, Bevo :D

He had nearly 20 touches in a half too; we may break some possession records this season :cool:

Wearing number 5 in homage to Dunkley interested me. That bromance is certainly blossoming.

[bornadog]

You are comparing him to midfielders, Bevo will play him off half back :)
He will get more than that :)

Did Smith play in the middle at all? I can't remember whether he did as I saw him mainly on the wing.

[comrade]

Did Smith play in the middle at all? I can't remember whether he did as I saw him mainly on the wing.

Wing suits him ok, imo. More running and kicking, less handballs (which he is surprisingly bad at).

[Happy Days]

Wing suits him ok, imo. More running and kicking, less handballs (which he is surprisingly bad at).

He really is a terrible handballer. Its really weird how bad he is at it and kinda can’t believe no one at any level ever taught him how to do it properly.

[comrade]

He really is a terrible handballer. Its really weird how bad he is at it and kinda can’t believe no one at any level ever taught him how to do it properly.

Yeah, it's a shocking technique. Gets away with it in space but as soon as pressure is applied, he invariably coughs it up by hand.

[EasternWest]

Shaun Higgins pointing to a stain on his team mate's shorts.

Wondering how in the hell somebody got dirt on their shorts.

[comrade]

I think we're quickly heading to a crossroads with Naughts as a forwards and a decision will need to be made. It's obvious that he and Bruce don't gel together. One has to play a blocking/decoy type role and neither are either capable or willing and just lead to the same ball, crash the same packs etc.

I think it's time to shore up our defensive group and send Naughton back for good (beyond a few cameos up forward when required) and back in Bruce and English to be our main talls. Bring in someone like Cavarra to provide pressure and we're much better structured up at both ends.

Will we do it? I doubt it.

[soupman]

Positive performance overall. That felt like soccer where one team just dominates possession for an entire game.

It was basically a carbon cop of all our good games last year, which is what concerns me. We were a good side last year, but I would like to see something change tht could make us a better one.

The ruck situation may be that, Martin and English seem a great combo and for a 34 year old Martin looks great. I'm looking at this season with Martin almost as an experiment, if we are better with a proper ruck supporting English then that means we should go out and get one, a kind of try before you buy a main ruck for that role for 10 years. I would already be sending out the feelers to try and see who we can snag to replace Martin as ruck number 1. Anyway English forward looks good, and with these two we might be able to turn a half weakness into a bit of a headache for other teams.

I still have huge question marks on our defence. It's possibly the worst collection of one on one defenders we have ever had, and we appear to have done nothing to improve it. Gardner is fine, but he is a stop gap type and so easily pushed around physically, the Gawn mark on him right at the end an easy example of how he can just lose contests. The contrast between our defence and Melbourne was significant, May especially is great to watch in how he literally pushes his opponents around and just asserts himself. The more of Bailey Dale to half back/wing was ok from a run perspective but I hate the idea of putting our worst one on one player into a backline that already sucks at that. Anthony Scott acquitted himself well yesterday but he is another we seem to be trying as a defender and I don't know his actual stats but he seems tiny and I don't want another weak guy back there when we are already featuring Caleb Daniel (who is fine fwiw but more than one guy that size is pushing it). I don't know how we fix it, Naughton is the only guy on the list that I think could make a significant difference nd I am very reluctant to take him from the forward line, Wood and Duryea are atleast competent one on one so I think I'd prefer one of them in at least but they aren't exactly A graders either. basically I'm a little flat still that we haven't appeared to address the backline weakness at all.

The forwardline also hasn't had an obvious improvement yet. Well English looks competent there which is good, however Naughton and Bruce continue to play like they both think they are the top dog, and we suck at finding space. Maybe this game was a bad example of that because we dominated possession so much that we never had a chance to draw the Demons defenders (and mids and forwards) out properly. Our inside 50s continue to be poor, we hate rewarding leads 35+ out, and we love long bombs that are frequently in an awkward spot for the guy getting bombed to to get. Almost everytime we bombed it to the hotspot we did so in a manner that only helped May/Lever.

So while we played well and i am somewhat optimistic and hopeful I think the only thing I have seen that looks to have addressed a clear problem is the ruck scenario. I have no doubt we will be very competitive though, I just think that we continue to make it hard for ourselves to be as good a side as i think we are by generally playing dumb and relying on quantity over quality.

[GVGjr]

Did Smith play in the middle at all? I can't remember whether he did as I saw him mainly on the wing.

I think he was in the centre square just once but I might be wrong.

[comrade]

One of the big positives from yesterday was Lipinski. Looked quicker and stronger, and his kicking was a highlight. Reckon he has the potential to be a Mitch Duncan type for us, playing that roaming wing/half forward role. I have him locked into the round 1 side.

[comrade]

I still have huge question marks on our defence. It's possibly the worst collection of one on one defenders we have ever had, and we appear to have done nothing to improve it. Gardner is fine, but he is a stop gap type and so easily pushed around physically, the Gawn mark on him right at the end an easy example of how he can just lose contests. The contrast between our defence and Melbourne was significant, May especially is great to watch in how he literally pushes his opponents around and just asserts himself. The more of Bailey Dale to half back/wing was ok from a run perspective but I hate the idea of putting our worst one on one player into a backline that already sucks at that. Anthony Scott acquitted himself well yesterday but he is another we seem to be trying as a defender and I don't know his actual stats but he seems tiny and I don't want another weak guy back there when we are already featuring Caleb Daniel (who is fine fwiw but more than one guy that size is pushing it). I don't know how we fix it, Naughton is the only guy on the list that I think could make a significant difference nd I am very reluctant to take him from the forward line, Wood and Duryea are atleast competent one on one so I think I'd prefer one of them in at least but they aren't exactly A graders either. basically I'm a little flat still that we haven't appeared to address the backline weakness at all.


I think we're one of the few teams in the league that doesn't have a defender that can be counted on to win regular one on one contests, not simply neutralise at best. It's a massive hindrance to your attacking motives if you're unable to win it across the defensive 50 in the air.

A very big list management failure.

[soupman]

On a personnel front, some were good others not so much.

Bont was amazing. I think from what I've seen across both practice matches more than ever before we've been able to find him on the run and looking to kick it inside 50. This is obviously a very good thing and bodes very well for our season if we can keep it up once teams start trying to lock down harder.

Macrae was back to his usual best.

Hunter is good but i don't love him as an actual forward. He is such a good worker and quality link player up the wings. He is one of the guys who was super bad at inside 50s at times, the main one being where we ignored Naughton on a good lead and instead bombed it over English's head to no one which was dumb dumb dumb. Also his goal kicking is infuriating so the less shots the better (that aren't from the boundary obviously where he clearly spends 95% of his practice time).

Lipinski played very well, he is so clean. I think he is severely underrated, he is such a smart footballer and plays at such a good pace. Still remains to be seen if he has addressed his weaknesses though which are his ability to win the contested possession and even more importantly not just be brushed aside when he is an obstacle.

McNeill was pretty quiet but that goal was beautiful. I don't think he should play round one but I suspect he will. Either way an early debut is certainly on the cards.

Scott was actually pretty impressive. Moves like a slower Vandermeer, really good at accelerating out of contests. A touch smaller than I'd like, but a very tidy kick. Don't like him in defence though, looks weak in aerial contests to me and not sure we can carry another guy like that.

Dale off half back is similiar, he played fairly well but he is the last guy I want defending in our lineup.

Khamis had some good moments, wasn't exactly assertive, more the Gardner style of defender where he just gets a fist in but doesn't clear the area but I'll admit it was a small sample size.

Bruce wasn't terrible, so that automatically makes it the second best game I have seen him play with us. First quarter he did his usual thing of being 3 metres behind the drop of the ball every time but he rectified that later.

Bedendo looked super raw. I'm all for giving guys a taste but I'd be super shitty if I was Ben Cavarra and after two excellent VFL performances in a role we desperately need filling i didn't get a chance to earn my round one spot to give a kid that seems to have earnt it through turning up to training with the right attitude (classic Bevo selection). I'm all for giving him a taste but there is no way we don't see him as at best a late 2022 selection so what is the rush?

Wallis was poor, couldn't mark and he now offers us nothing if he isn't doing that. Can't play anywhere else but deep forward, and offers little pressure while he does it. I am prepared to cut him some slack, especially with the complete lack of space for him to outbody defenders in, but two or three more games like that and I think our vice captain may be in the reserves.

Williams was great. Hard to tell off a small sample size but he may have improved one on one which would be a huge help.

Keath was ok, everytime i watch him though I just wonder how much better he would be if we had a proper tall defender alongside him to help.

Gardner was also ok, but I wouldn't say much better than that.

[soupman]

I think we're one of the few teams in the league that doesn't have a defender that can be counted on to win regular one on one contests, not simply neutralise at best. It's a massive hindrance to your attacking motives if you're unable to win it across the defensive 50 in the air.

A very big list management failure.

It's also one of the key reasons why when we have bad quarters they lose us games. When the tide turns and we are faced with repeat oppositon inside 50s we wilt, we have no ability to hang in there. I mean look at how May and Lever managed to stem the tide and at worst neutralise a lot of our attacking movements and then look at who is even capable of that in our defence. Maybe 2016 Wood and Keath on his best days. We have no ability to absorb a bad performance upfield.

And with this new kick in rule we are in big trouble i think. We rely on locking it into our forwardline with a team zone as such but when the kicks outs make it to the wing then that isn't feasible anymore. We are going to need to kill those initial contests big time because teams will pretty quickly realise if they have two or three guys forward of the ball from there who are at worst not terrible at one on ones then they are going to have a good time.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Are we honestly just better off putting Naughton down back? Solves our defensive woes but also doesn't make us that much worse up forward given he and Bruce just seem incapable of co-existing. Aside from a couple of games, he hasn't really dominated up forward. I know he's still developing his craft down there but with the addition of Bruce and English's forward development, perhaps Aaron is needed more down back right now.

[comrade]

It's also one of the key reasons why when we have bad quarters they lose us games. When the tide turns and we are faced with repeat oppositon inside 50s we wilt, we have no ability to hang in there. I mean look at how May and Lever managed to stem the tide and at worst neutralise a lot of our attacking movements and then look at who is even capable of that in our defence. Maybe 2016 Wood and Keath on his best days. We have no ability to absorb a bad performance upfield.

And with this new kick in rule we are in big trouble i think. We rely on locking it into our forwardline with a team zone as such but when the kicks outs make it to the wing then that isn't feasible anymore. We are going to need to kill those initial contests big time because teams will pretty quickly realise if they have two or three guys forward of the ball from there who are at worst not terrible at one on ones then they are going to have a good time.

Without May or Lever, Dees lose by 10+ goals yesterday.

It's a good point about our bad quarters. All sides face momentum swings, and your midfield can't dominate 4 quarters every single week, especially against good sides. So you have to trust your defence to hold the fort at times. Ours simply can't...putting Naughton back would help though.

[kruder]

Wing suits him ok, imo. More running and kicking, less handballs (which he is surprisingly bad at).

He needs to improve defensively also Smith, looks like he loses all athletic traits as soon as he doesn't have the ball in hand. He was excellent in his first year with his pressure, has dropped off noticeably since then.

[1eyedog]

He really is a terrible handballer. Its really weird how bad he is at it and kinda can’t believe no one at any level ever taught him how to do it properly.

He nearly throws the bloody thing, oh wait that's Hunter not Smith. Well at least Hunter's usually make their intended destination in a loopy slow way unlike Smith's which often land somewhere between him and a team mate.

[bornadog]

Without May or Lever, Dees lose by 10+ goals yesterday.

It's a good point about our bad quarters. All sides face momentum swings, and your midfield can't dominate 4 quarters every single week, especially against good sides. So you have to trust your defence to hold the fort at times. Ours simply can't...putting Naughton back would help though.

Although May and Lever are good, we still had 31 shots with 64 inside 50s.

[comrade]

Although May and Lever are good, we still had 31 shots with 64 inside 50s.

Yep.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Anyone know how many shots on goal we had that were in play vs set shot?

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Are we honestly just better off putting Naughton down back? Solves our defensive woes but also doesn't make us that much worse up forward given he and Bruce just seem incapable of co-existing. Aside from a couple of games, he hasn't really dominated up forward. I know he's still developing his craft down there but with the addition of Bruce and English's forward development, perhaps Aaron is needed more down back right now.

Yes.

I've said it for a while but our back half is probably the worst in the league. Naughton is a better defender than he is forward, despite the allure of him playing as a dominant forward. The reality is that Aaron needs space to run and jump but that rarely happens these days. Body on body, May predictably destroyed him yesterday.

The balance of our side needs Naughton to play KPD if we want to contend. If we just want a good highlights package at the end of the year, keep Aaron forward.

Schache gets judged too harshly IMO and should be playing.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

One of the big positives from yesterday was Lipinski. Looked quicker and stronger, and his kicking was a highlight. Reckon he has the potential to be a Mitch Duncan type for us, playing that roaming wing/half forward role. I have him locked into the round 1 side.

I was REALLY critical of Lipinski last year. I thought he was awful.

Yesterday he was really impressive. He worked hard both ways, put himself in the defensive hole a few times and then got on the end of a few forward of the ball. Looks fitter and stronger, he's always had good skills. The question is his contested game/defensive pressure and tackling, but the signs were much more positive yesterday.

Perhaps the early concussion in 2020 effected him, but he looks set for a good year.

[bornadog]

Yes.

I've said it for a while but our back half is probably the worst in the league.

Is this based on observation or stats? Our defense is about mid range for goals against.

[comrade]

Is this based on observation or stats? Our defense is about mid range for goals against.

Goals against is too basic a metric. More important/relevant would be goals per inside 50, or 1 on 1 contests lost, amount of intercept marks taken inside 50. I don't have those available to me right now, but based on the eye test, we wouldn't be anyway near the top teams.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Is this based on observation or stats? Our defense is about mid range for goals against.

Observation. Stats aren't a good indicator here, given a side might have an OK back half but poor midfield (ala Melbourne yesterday).

I can't think of too many defensive setups like ours who have an overabundance of half back flankers/defenders who really can't defend well.

Caleb is our best defender - not taking into account his attacking ability - which speaks volumes IMO.

[Rocket Science]

Is it too early to begin fretting whether Naughts can avoid getting banged up so regularly?

But I digress ... selection experiments and pre-season rust aside, can someone who took in both contests against Hawthorn & Melbourne highlight areas of detectable improvement, without mentioning Stef Martin, on what we've trotted out over the last couple of seasons?

I have, and I can't.

[comrade]

Is it too early to begin fretting whether Naughts can avoid getting banged up so regularly?

But I digress ... selection experiments and pre-season rust aside, can someone who took in both contests against Hawthorn & Melbourne highlight areas of detectable improvement, without mentioning Stef Martin, on what we've trotted out over the last couple of seasons?

I have, and I can't.

I'll don the cheerleader pom poms for a moment. I think two areas of incremental improvement will be from Bont rising even further this year (almost 900m gained yesterday suggests the extra space and time the new rules give you will suit him), Williams and Daniel from defensive 50 being even bigger weapons and our overall midfield dominance will be too much for about 8 sides so we should be able to bank 8 wins pretty comfortably. From there, I don't know.

[SonofScray]

Lipinski's game was terrific. Really robust attack on the footy and movement through traffic combined with genuinely hard running forward of the ball. Pretty complete performance from him.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Lipinski's game was terrific. Really robust attack on the footy and movement through traffic combined with genuinely hard running forward of the ball. Pretty complete performance from him.

Its only one performance but I thought Lipinski and Dale were both very good

Lipinski seems to have the tank, and is classy with the ball in hand, and yesterday there was a more consistent physicality and defensive intent about his game

Dale played a more solid game also - seemed to have better physical intent about the defensive stuff and his kicking and finishing were good

McNeil had some great moments and seems to get front and square relatively well, but Anthony Scott probably had the more consistent game but in a different role - it really looks to be a classy left peg on him, and he kicked nicely on his right at times also

Undermanned Melbourne but a solid step for our group and it wasnt like we didnt have a few out and a few injuries during the game

[Happy Days]

Really think the increase in handball receives that the stationary man on the mark rule affords will help Macrae and Treloar get involved in possession chains (not that they needed help doing so but think they will both be considerably more damaging).

[bornadog]

Als Highlights - about 20 min of the good bits


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vw203QnK2g4&ab_channel=ALsHighlights

[Ghost Dog]

Als Highlights - about 20 min of the good bits


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vw203QnK2g4&ab_channel=ALsHighlights

Thanks for this. Some great foot skills on display. Caleb could put a ball on a 20cent bit.

[Jeanette54]

The Smith to Lipinski pass was awesome, allowing Patrick to run onto the ball without breaking stride. Perfectly weighted.

[josie]

Great to see footy live. Bont, Lipinski, Macrae and Daniel were all very good. Bont's 3 goals - well, just pure class. Daniel is our architect. So, so often our players look to him to create something good or get them out of a hole and so, so many times he delivers the goods. Gotta love Libba too - amazing ability to get handball or kick out when seemingly no space/max pressure situations. Nice to see Dunks put in a good stint too.

Though Martin made a significant +ve difference.

Liked what I saw of Khamis - for me a bit of the Morris vibe about him (hope that continues).

I think we need a small crumbing forward desperately and would love to see Cavarra given a go. Also think, as do others, Bruce and Naughton do not work well together based upon the few games they played last year and the praccy match yesterday. If this problem is not resolved I'm starting to think; Schache coming in as a roaming forward (as posters have said he might work better with Bruce or Naughts in F50), Naughton to backline (with stints in forward line), English forward and sometimes floating back and ruck relief might be a better set-up. If there is an excess of tall players possibly drop Gardner.

[comrade]

I think we need a small crumbing forward desperately and would love to see Cavarra given a go. Also think, as do others, Bruce and Naughton do not work well together based upon the few games they played last year and the praccy match yesterday. If this problem is not resolved I'm starting to think; Schache coming in as a roaming forward (as posters have said he might work better with Bruce or Naughts in F50), Naughton to backline (with stints in forward line), English forward and sometimes floating back and ruck relief might be a better set-up. If there is an excess of tall players possibly drop Gardner.

As a founding member of the 'Naughton to defence' fan club, this makes me happy. The tide is turning!

[Scraggers]

Great to see footy live. Bont, Lipinski, Macrae and Daniel were all very good. Bont's 3 goals - well, just pure class. Daniel is our architect. So, so often our players look to him to create something good or get them out of a hole and so, so many times he delivers the goods. Gotta love Libba too - amazing ability to get handball or kick out when seemingly no space/max pressure situations. Nice to see Dunks put in a good stint too.

Though Martin made a significant +ve difference.

Liked what I saw of Khamis - for me a bit of the Morris vibe about him (hope that continues).

I think we need a small crumbing forward desperately and would love to see Cavarra given a go. Also think, as do others, Bruce and Naughton do not work well together based upon the few games they played last year and the praccy match yesterday. If this problem is not resolved I'm starting to think; Schache coming in as a roaming forward (as posters have said he might work better with Bruce or Naughts in F50), Naughton to backline (with stints in forward line), English forward and sometimes floating back and ruck relief might be a better set-up. If there is an excess of tall players possibly drop Gardner.

Now knowing he played three quarters of the game against Casey that morning, makes yesterday's effort so much better.

[chef]

As a founding member of the 'Naughton to defence' fan club, this makes me happy. The tide is turning!

Sign me up too.

Seems a no brainer.

[soupman]

As a founding member of the 'Naughton to defence' fan club, this makes me happy. The tide is turning!

I've been firmly in the keep him forward camp, but seeing our utter refusal to do anything to fix our defence issues I am reluctantly coming round to the less fun way of thinking.

[Bulldog Joe]

I've been firmly in the keep him forward camp, but seeing our utter refusal to do anything to fix our defence issues I am reluctantly coming round to the less fun way of thinking.

I am moving to the Naughton to defence camp, mostly because we refuse to play in a way that gives him the best chance to succeed forward.

[jeemak]

I think Naughton to defence is the only thing Comrade and I have furiously agreed on from the word go in about three years!

[ratsmac]

We NEED a genuine KPD who can play on the gorillas. We HAVE multiple KPF's with one who was recruited as a KPD and is more than capable of playing on gorillas. It's not even a case of robbing Peter to pay Paul. Naughton to defense is just logical to me. He's more exciting up forward when he's on though but that isn't often enough

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Dare I say it, but we’ll probably see Naughton thrown back out of desperation at some point this season. Our defence is too shaky for it not to happen and it’ll be in a game where he’s hardly touched it dude to our forward woes. If he tighten things up it might build momentum for a permanent switch.

[Before I Die]

I'm firmly in the Naughton stays forward camp. I haven't ruled a line through Gardner or Young at this stage and if there is a need to send one of our forwards back, for me, it would be Bruce. He is a big body, strong in the air and has plenty of experience as a CHB. I think when Marra comes on, Bruce will be squeezed out.

With Naughton, it is the same as with Izzy Huntington in the women's team. She is a B&F at CHB and much more valuable at CHF. I want to see Naughton and Marra develop into the strongest pair of key forwards we have ever had and dominate the competition for the next 10 years.

[soupman]

t would be Bruce. He is a big body, strong in the air and has plenty of experience as a CHB.


Yuck. His experience there is as a nearly delisted GWS player who was traded for a pick 48. Nothing in his time with us has suggested at all that he is strong in the air. He plays like a big Labrador that just wants to get involved but doesn't know how. I mean if it gets him out of the forwardline and out of Naughtons way I'm all for it but i can't see it working.

[jeemak]

Bruce knows how to play forward, calling him a Labrador is a bit much.

[comrade]

Yeah, if Bruce keeps getting picked he’s playing the way Bevo wants him to. The question is why?

[GVGjr]

I know it's been suggested before but is Bruce being moved to the back line a reasonable option?
That might give English and Naughton a better chance to gel and we also have Schache in the mix

[comrade]

I can’t be the only one waiting for mjp to tell me if I should be encouraged by Monday’s performance or not...

[Happy Days]

Bruce would be horrible in defence. His lateral quickness is such a limiting factor and is the main reason why he can’t get to enough contests as a forward to be effective. In defence he’d be BBQ chicken.

[Happy Days]

I can’t be the only one waiting for mjp to tell me if I should be encouraged by Monday’s performance or not...

You should be! We were good! Clean up some of the finishing (I know) and thats a 10 goal win against an allegedly top 4 side (according to Simon Goodwin who is famously known for his good judgement).

[bornadog]

If Bruce kicks two goals a week and gets involved with bringing the ball to ground and keeping it in the forward line, then job done.

[mjp]

I can’t be the only one waiting for mjp to tell me if I should be encouraged by Monday’s performance or not...

I actually have no idea.

I was very happy to see we actually played with effort and energy but I feel I have seen this song played before. I am incredibly cynical about our group right now and bashing around a Melbourne midfield missing Oliver, Viney and Brayshaw was such a 'Bulldogs' thing to do (meaning the 2019/2020 versions of our club) that it really didn't give me a lot of joy.

Any match day thoughts by me right now are going to be pretty simple - are we working hard in transition, are we applying pressure post-contest...I honestly have no real interest right now on whether our defenders are up to it as individuals, what end of the ground Naughton plays or whether Josh Bruce has improved from last year or not...Effort and energy is all I care about because it has simply been too inconsistent over the past 2-3 years and I'm just sick of it.

An improved effort against Melbourne was great. But honestly, so what? I want to know if the players are prepared to do what it takes to be a good team rather than have their name listed in an article about how exciting our midfield is...

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I actually have no idea.

I was very happy to see we actually played with effort and energy but I feel I have seen this song played before. I am incredibly cynical about our group right now and bashing around a Melbourne midfield missing Oliver, Viney and Brayshaw was such a 'Bulldogs' thing to do (meaning the 2019/2020 versions of our club) that it really didn't give me a lot of joy.

Any match day thoughts by me right now are going to be pretty simple - are we working hard in transition, are we applying pressure post-contest...I honestly have no real interest right now on whether our defenders are up to it as individuals, what end of the ground Naughton plays or whether Josh Bruce has improved from last year or not...Effort and energy is all I care about because it has simply been too inconsistent over the past 2-3 years and I'm just sick of it.

An improved effort against Melbourne was great. But honestly, so what? I want to know if the players are prepared to do what it takes to be a good team rather than have their name listed in an article about how exciting our midfield is...

This is exactly how I felt after the game.

Sure, great win. But this outfit has been beating on average teams and then failing to deliver against anything close to a quality outfit. I can't imagine we'd have done too well if we were missing Bont, Macrae and Dunkley. I'm just not at all convinced much has changed so I'll have to wait a few more weeks.

[bornadog]

Bevo’s AAMI series wrap (https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/876607/bevo-s-aami-series-wrap)


Senior coach Luke Beveridge shared his thoughts on some players who impressed in the Western Bulldogs’ 39-point AAMI Community Series win over Melbourne, during the post-match press conference.

Marcus Bontempelli

32 disposals (16 contested), seven clearances, nine inside-50s, three goals
“His third quarter was instrumental in us getting the upper hand. We know he’s an outstanding player, and he’s an outstanding leader. He was down on himself a little bit after his performance (against Hawthorn) – he had a lot of the footy but just didn’t use it as well as he can. For him to come out and play as well as he did was important for him and us leading into round one.”

Lachie McNeil

Eight disposals, three inside-50s, one goal
“We saw what Lachie can do with his speed, he’s got good skills and he doesn’t mind a contest. He’s got a good menu of attributes. In his second game against AFL opposition, there were some encouraging moments for him.”

Buku Khamis

Six disposals, four marks
“Buku had already played three quarters (in the VFL), so for him to come on and play a half like he did (was great). We sort of moved him into more of that key back post, and he didn’t put a foot wrong, so that’s important for us.”

Stef Martin + Tim English

Martin: 17 disposals, four marks, 14 hit-outs
English: 17 disposals, seven marks, nine hit-outs, one goal
“We were really pleased with the combination. Stefan spent a lot of minutes in the ruck – big Max Gawn probably got his hand on it a fair bit. The clearance differential was a landslide in our favour so our mids were able to deal with Stef’s strong contest and not be flipped around too much. It allowed Tim to play forward a little bit more – I thought Tim’s second half, he was a real threat down there. If he converted he might’ve had even more of an outstanding day. They were a good combination for us this afternoon.”

Bailey Smith

25 disposals, seven marks, one goal
“As the game went on Bailey probably had 15 or so disposals in the second half – he probably didn’t use it as well as he usually does but he’ll open up some teams with his run. He’s elite in the way he can cover the ground, and on the outside he can make the most of that.”

Josh Dunkley

32 disposals (20 contested), 11 tackles, eight clearances
“I thought Dunks was very good for us today- he impressed with some of the things he does extremely well. Dunks is a really critical part of our 22. As I have done in the past, I’ll continue to nurture both his and my relationship and his performance with the rest of our coaches. Josh has been an influential player for us, and like his teammates there’s still room to grow. That’s what we’re after with him – today is a really good step in the right direction for him. It gives him momentum into round one.”

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

This is exactly how I felt after the game.

Sure, great win. But this outfit has been beating on average teams and then failing to deliver against anything close to a quality outfit. I can't imagine we'd have done too well if we were missing Bont, Macrae and Dunkley. I'm just not at all convinced much has changed so I'll have to wait a few more weeks.

I'm not dissimilar. Given how consistently inconsistent we've been for the past few years, I think the time has passed for making any demonstrative statements about our pre-season performances either way.
For me, any firm opinions about our progress one way or the other, are only going to come off the back of seeing us perform when it counts now.
If we don't show we've made significant inroads as a group towards reaching our 'on paper' potential this year, then I would hope for nothing less than full pressure to be applied to players and coaches alike this season.

[1eyedog]

Bruce would be horrible in defence. His lateral quickness is such a limiting factor and is the main reason why he can’t get to enough contests as a forward to be effective. In defence he’d be BBQ chicken.

Bruce needs to be one out with a crumber. Problem is this is almost impossible in today's game.

[Rocket Science]

I actually have no idea.

I was very happy to see we actually played with effort and energy but I feel I have seen this song played before. I am incredibly cynical about our group right now and bashing around a Melbourne midfield missing Oliver, Viney and Brayshaw was such a 'Bulldogs' thing to do (meaning the 2019/2020 versions of our club) that it really didn't give me a lot of joy.

Any match day thoughts by me right now are going to be pretty simple - are we working hard in transition, are we applying pressure post-contest...I honestly have no real interest right now on whether our defenders are up to it as individuals, what end of the ground Naughton plays or whether Josh Bruce has improved from last year or not...Effort and energy is all I care about because it has simply been too inconsistent over the past 2-3 years and I'm just sick of it.

An improved effort against Melbourne was great. But honestly, so what? I want to know if the players are prepared to do what it takes to be a good team rather than have their name listed in an article about how exciting our midfield is...

... and it's gradually losing its charm.

Melbourne are objectively awful, missing soldiers or not, but too many of their transitions from our forward half to theirs were familiarly quick and untroubled and turnovers in our forward half continue to be lethal, even against crap opposition. Feel free to extrapolate how that pans out against quality outfits with the firepower to kill a game in the span of one lazy quarter.

I'm expectantly looking for structural and systemic improvements, adjustments that suggest we've learnt the lessons of 2019/20 and will be better for it rather than trading on an enviable list, what often seems like wilful chaos and acts of individual brilliance to drag us further up the ladder. The Bont can't plonk us on his back every week.

Last season was weird, and maybe we'll piece it all together as 2021 unfolds but it still feels like we're missing the bones of what makes good teams resilient and hard to play against, with the durability and steel to push back when pushed.

I wanna howl down any media types pegging us for top-four because they plainly haven't watched us enough.

Assume Richmond, Brisbane, Port and Geelong have mortgages on those spots ... And our direct competition for the next four spots are coming, if not already here ... the Saints are clearly better. Carlton is better. Fremantle is bolting. The Suns will be better. And while the Eagles, Pies and Fluorescent F*ckheads loom as sliders they all still have legit designs on finals too.

So what can we engineer to split an increasingly large pack? Because the same old song's feeling pretty worn out.

[Happy Days]

... and it's gradually losing its charm.

Melbourne are objectively awful, missing soldiers or not, but too many of their transitions from our forward half to theirs were familiarly quick and untroubled and turnovers in our forward half continue to be lethal, even against crap opposition. Feel free to extrapolate how that pans out against quality outfits with the firepower to kill a game in the span of one lazy quarter.

I'm expectantly looking for structural and systemic improvements, adjustments that suggest we've learnt the lessons of 2019/20 and will be better for it rather than trading on an enviable list, what often seems like wilful chaos and acts of individual brilliance to drag us further up the ladder. The Bont can't plonk us on his back every week.

Last season was weird, and maybe we'll piece it all together as 2021 unfolds but it still feels like we're missing the bones of what makes good teams resilient and hard to play against, with the durability and steel to push back when pushed.

I wanna howl down any media types pegging us for top-four because they plainly haven't watched us enough.

Assume Richmond, Brisbane, Port and Geelong have mortgages on those spots ... And our direct competition for the next four spots are coming, if not already here ... the Saints are clearly better. Carlton is better. Fremantle is bolting. The Suns will be better. And while the Eagles, Pies and Fluorescent F*ckheads loom as sliders they all still have legit designs on finals too.

So what can we engineer to split an increasingly large pack? Because the same old song's feeling pretty worn out.

Its always going to be a case of needing to be shown before you can believe it, but maybe we’re improving along the same lines without immense changes to our structure? There’s a ton of talent in this group and if there is a hardened edge (which is never going to be borne out in a pre-season game against the Melbourne mfn Demons) then who’s honestly putting us behind that pack (the Suns, come on cuz).

What could have been demonstrated against Melbourne that really would have dispelled any doubts, if a top to bottom performance with winners all over the ground, a (without checking) 20 scoring shot differential, complete and utter clearance domination and largely stifling defence isn’t doing it? Maybe if Libba summarily executed Jayden Hunt with his head over the ball?

We were underwhelming last year but lets not be scared of getting hurt again. There’s a ton of cause for optimism this year.

[Ozza]

Much like some others, I'm not sure what to make of beating a Melbourne side that didn't have Viney, Oliver, Brayshaw, Brown and Salem. We probably did what I'd expect us to do.

My highlights were;

Buku's kick to English on the wing. Took the longer, riskier option and executed it perfectly and having 2 Melbourne defenders commit to English, it opened up the ground for us to score. Huge moment for him and grew in confidence for the rest of the game.

Bont and Macrae looked super.

Bailey Williams.

Concerns;

Defense. Still think our team defense and our one on one defending is not at the level of the top teams.
Overuse of the ball in the first half particularly.

[Before I Die]

Bruce would be horrible in defence. His lateral quickness is such a limiting factor and is the main reason why he can’t get to enough contests as a forward to be effective. In defence he’d be BBQ chicken.

My post was pro Naughton forward. Bruce back was just an ‘in case of emergency, break glass, addendum.

However, the above argument against was also commonly applied to Roughead as a defender. Hmm...

[Rocket Science]

(the Suns, come on cuz).

I'm all for pissing on the AFEL's Frankenchildren but we fell over the line against them by less than a kick last time and they punished Brisbane's hubris for a half on the weekend until Fages read the riot act. They'll readily do the same to us if we pissfart around like the points are rightfully ours.


We were underwhelming last year but lets not be scared of getting hurt again. There’s a ton of cause for optimism this year.

Oh indisputably. There's heaps to enthuse about but any excitement feels like cheap, unearned thrills if we end up getting dispatched come first week of finals again coupled with yet another off-season of shoulda, woulda, coulda.

I wanna believe, I mean who can stay mad at Bevo? But I'm increasingly wise to ending up the long-suffering cuck who subsists on the good and promises of "I'll change" only to have hopes and heart dashed once more by the same old stuff you chose to overlook in the process.

Hi everyone, my name's Rocket Science and I'm scared of getting hurt again.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Things are gonna be pretty bad if we trot out a similar rd 1 performance to last year. Same team again this year, one that we will be fighting with for a spot in the 8. We shouldn't accept anything but a win.

[bornadog]

Calling Jeemak, your inbox is full.

[soupman]

Things are gonna be pretty bad if we trot out a similar rd 1 performance to last year. Same team again this year, one that we will be fighting with for a spot in the 8. We shouldn't accept anything but a win.

I am terrified of this happening. Would be so deflating.

[AshMac]

I am terrified of this happening. Would be so deflating.

Ditto. Now 2 years in a row.

Nothing short of an arm wrestle until the end or a win will suffice.

[jeemak]

It'd be horrendous, three out of four years having our arses handed to us post a lucklustre performance would I think rightfully set us off.

I hope everyone at the club understands how much we as supporters and they themselves need us to put in a committed performance.

[bornadog]

It'd be horrendous, three out of four years having our arses handed to us post a lucklustre performance would I think rightfully set us off.

I hope everyone at the club understands how much we as supporters and they themselves need us to put in a committed performance.

If we lose, I won't be logging in

[Bulldog Joe]

I am expecting an emphatic win with a follow up over the Weagles in round 2 only to fail miserably against North in round 3.

[The Underdog]

Much like some others, I'm not sure what to make of beating a Melbourne side that didn't have Viney, Oliver, Brayshaw, Brown and Salem. We probably did what I'd expect us to do.

My highlights were;

Buku's kick to English on the wing. Took the longer, riskier option and executed it perfectly and having 2 Melbourne defenders commit to English, it opened up the ground for us to score. Huge moment for him and grew in confidence for the rest of the game.

Bont and Macrae looked super.

Bailey Williams.

Concerns;

Defense. Still think our team defense and our one on one defending is not at the level of the top teams.
Overuse of the ball in the first half particularly.

Buku’s kick, may have been my favourite moment of the game (ok it was probably Bont’s goal). To see it, then to choose it over the easy option, then to execute it was everything I want from our team.

[Danjul]

Much like some others, I'm not sure what to make of beating a Melbourne side that didn't have Viney, Oliver, Brayshaw, Brown and Salem. We probably did what I'd expect us to do.

My highlights were;

Buku's kick to English on the wing. Took the longer, riskier option and executed it perfectly and having 2 Melbourne defenders commit to English, it opened up the ground for us to score. Huge moment for him and grew in confidence for the rest of the game.

Bont and Macrae looked super.

Bailey Williams.

Concerns;

Defense. Still think our team defense and our one on one defending is not at the level of the top teams.
Overuse of the ball in the first half particularly.

I didn’t expect the Dogs to be held for 3 quarters by an undermanned Demons team. Just as I didn’t expect to see them beaten comfortably by an almost nonexistent Hawks. Monday’s win was the result of one good quarter.

For most of the game the forward line was dysfunctional, not helped by poor delivery (with a few notable exceptions), a return of the nightmares in 2020. The backline was hard to watch. Gardner simply throwing himself over the top of the pack, even if one of ours had everything covered. Crozier too. Spectacular 1%ers leading to injury don’t make up for everyone being in the wrong place. It took a player hoping to get his first game to give us something positive back there.

After the two practise matches I am still trying to figure out what we were practising. Plenty of talented individuals, l’d rather see a good team so I can face the season with some confidence.

[Dry Rot]

If we lose, I won't be logging in

Don't worry, I have the keys to the internet and I will turn it off.

[bornadog]

Don't worry, I have the keys to the internet and I will turn it off.

Thanks DR, it may be needed.

[Axe Man]

I didn’t expect the Dogs to be held for 3 quarters by an undermanned Demons team. Just as I didn’t expect to see them beaten comfortably by an almost nonexistent Hawks. Monday’s win was the result of one good quarter.

For most of the game the forward line was dysfunctional, not helped by poor delivery (with a few notable exceptions), a return of the nightmares in 2020. The backline was hard to watch. Gardner simply throwing himself over the top of the pack, even if one of ours had everything covered. Crozier too. Spectacular 1%ers leading to injury don’t make up for everyone being in the wrong place. It took a player hoping to get his first game to give us something positive back there.

After the two practise matches I am still trying to figure out what we were practising. Plenty of talented individuals, l’d rather see a good team so I can face the season with some confidence.

We dominated that game, as we should have, but lacked that forward connection at times, as you and everybody else has pointed out.

How you can take such a negative view of a largely positive performance surprises me, although it really shouldn't by now. Yes there were some familiar flaws there, but there was plenty to like too.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

For me it’s simple. Have a performance like that against say the pies, tigers, cats etc and I’ll become more optimistic.

It was a mostly positive performance. But we need to start seeing it consistently and against quality opponents. I mean, taking the north and Adelaide games of last season on their own and you’d have no reason to be negative. But look how our season went.

[bornadog]

We dominated that game, as we should have, but lacked that forward connection at times, as you and everybody else has pointed out.

How you can take such a negative view of a largely positive performance surprises me, although it really shouldn't by now. Yes there were some familiar flaws there, but there was plenty to like too.

31 scoring shots with 64 entries and a very good win against a team that missed the 8 by 2 points. Yes they had two of their good mids missing (not including Brayshaw - he has been rubbish the past year) and we had plenty out as well as some injuries during the game.

No team plays four quarters of unbelievable footy.

I am looking forward to the year ahead and really the past is the past and who cares how we performed in the past 4 years, it is finished gone.

We are now more mature as a team, and have some depth to cover injuries. Like every team, we have our flaws and weaknesses.

Bring it on I say :)

[jazzadogs]

This may sound ridiculous, but I almost think we need a run of injuries to our primo mids so that we can give opportunities to some of the second stringers who may inject some of the energy, tenacity and defensive pressure that's often needed.

It might force the whole team to rethink the way they approach the game. Bring back a bit of that 2016 'against the odds' attitude.

[bornadog]

This may sound ridiculous, but I almost think we need a run of injuries to our primo mids so that we can give opportunities to some of the second stringers who may inject some of the energy, tenacity and defensive pressure that's often needed.

It might force the whole team to rethink the way they approach the game. Bring back a bit of that 2016 'against the odds' attitude.

Have you been reading this: https://www.afl.com.au/news/561008/calling-2016-bont-explains-how-dogs-are-winding-back-the-clock

[The Pie Man]

Buku’s kick, may have been my favourite moment of the game (ok it was probably Bont’s goal). To see it, then to choose it over the easy option, then to execute it was everything I want from our team.

My favourite moment was Bailey Williams selling candy flawlessly three times in 5 seconds.

[Axe Man]

My favourite moment was Bailey Williams selling candy flawlessly three times in 5 seconds.

Melbourne players be like:
https://i.postimg.cc/cLWfgWyy/candy.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[Bulldog4life]

If we lose, I won't be logging in

Here or Twitter BAD? Or both maybe?

[bornadog]

Here or Twitter BAD? Or both maybe?

Here

[Danjul]

We dominated that game, as we should have, but lacked that forward connection at times, as you and everybody else has pointed out.

How you can take such a negative view of a largely positive performance surprises me, although it really shouldn't by now. Yes there were some familiar flaws there, but there was plenty to like too.
Was it positive to be behind approaching half time. I think Melbourne was ahead with 2 minutes to go.

The Dogs had over 30% more possessions (I think it was 120 more) because they have a lot of impressive talent. How did a depleted Melbourne keep with them for 3 of the 4 quarters. Because the Dogs definitely didn’t play as an impressive team. They went in with structural weaknesses which, hopefully, they fix before meeting real opponents.

It has only taken 4 years to acknowledge and fix the ruck, and that part of the game worked very well. Will it take that long to notice that the backline had no key position player ? In the selected teams May and Gardner were equivalent. In the game only one showed any interest in actually getting the ball. May got it 27 times and kicked it 50 metres 20 times. Gardner kicked the ball 3 times, his role was obviously to run in behind the pack and try to spoil. That’s going to do nothing against the good teams. That alone will keep us out of the top four.

please specify exactly what you saw that suggests a better year is ahead.

[Axe Man]

Was it positive to be behind approaching half time. I think Melbourne was ahead with 2 minutes to go.

The Dogs had over 30% more possessions (I think it was 120 more) because they have a lot of impressive talent. How did a depleted Melbourne keep with them for 3 of the 4 quarters. Because the Dogs definitely didn’t play as an impressive team. They went in with structural weaknesses which, hopefully, they fix before meeting real opponents.

It has only taken 4 years to acknowledge and fix the ruck, and that part of the game worked very well. Will it take that long to notice that the backline had no key position player ? In the selected teams May and Gardner were equivalent. In the game only one showed any interest in actually getting the ball. May got it 27 times and kicked it 50 metres 20 times. Gardner kicked the ball 3 times, his role was obviously to run in behind the pack and try to spoil. That’s going to do nothing against the good teams. That alone will keep us out of the top four.

please specify exactly what you saw that suggests a better year is ahead.

My god, did you spend the evening of the 1st October 2016 discussing our shortcomings that day? There is nothing wrong with critique and discussing our deficiencies but every other poster on here finds some balance and doesn't post constantly negative, woe is us stuff. Football is meant to be fun and you suck the life out of it.

To address some of your points:
Keath and Gardner are key position players whether you like it or not.
Do you honestly think that teams can not be successful if their KPDs don't rack up 20 possession each? How on earth did we win a flag with Roberts, Hamling and Morris? Every team has lockdown defenders.
Our back 6 functions by getting the ball into the hands of those who are the best distributors if possible. Not everyone in the back 6 needs to do this. Daniel, Williams, JJ, when he plays, etc. Gardner is not there to do that. May on the other hand is just about the best key defender in the competition and is an excellent kick. He picked up quite a few of his possessions on Monday kicking out because he is so good at it. Your obsession with key defenders possession numbers is nonsensical.

I never claimed we had a better year ahead. I have no idea how we will perform this season. I have been as disappointed as anyone with some of our performances over the past few years, and obviously the end results. What I did say is that there were positives and negatives to take out of that PRE-SEASON game. The ruck worked well against the best in the competition. The backline performed well without any major blunders that I can recall. The midfield dominated, as they should have, but they can only beat what's in front of them. Some of their forward entries left a little to be desired though. The forward line has obvious concerns but we still managed to kick a decent score despite very good games from May and Lever.

I choose to find positives where I can so I can enjoy WOOF, enjoy footy and enjoy life.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I’ve been a little surprised that people have criticised Gardner because all he does is spoil from behind. That is exactly what I’d like from a lockdown defender. The problem I currently have with Ryan is he gets outmuscled/out positioned too often but hopefully he can work on that. The intercepting can be left to others like Crozier/Wood/Keath etc. Not every defender needs to be an interceptor.

The problem with our defence is the overall workings. We seem lost a lot and most importantly are lacking the guy who can lockdown the big forward. I really hope Gardner can become that but I’m not confident. Keath needs to be freed up to play interceptor. It would only take one recruit to see a major difference.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

There are certainly frustrations that get vented on here. The ruck situation is a case in point. A lot on here have been crying out for it for a few years. We FINALLY make the adjustment and it appears (albeit from a very small sample size) to be paying dividends. This then begs the question as to why it took so long for the coaches to make the change.

The same has been said about holding onto players for too long. It's bizarre at times that Bevo persists to play guys like Gowers, Lloyd, Dickson for 1 game and then they are subsequently delisted whereas players like Young and Schache never see the light of day and yet are retained/extended.

The same could now be said for our lack of key defenders and small forwards. I think there is a lack of trust with the coach due to a history of being quite stubborn in his ways. We just seem too slow to adjust, which in this caper is suicide.

[comrade]

There are certainly frustrations that get vented on here. The ruck situation is a case in point. A lot on here have been crying out for it for a few years. We FINALLY make the adjustment and it appears (albeit from a very small sample size) to be paying dividends. This then begs the question as to why it took so long for the coaches to make the change.


Gotta say, one of the best things about having Stef Martin is knowing Grundy won't just tear us a new one in round 1 without any resistance whatsoever. He may still do so, but we should at least put up a fight.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Gotta say, one of the best things about having Stef Martin is knowing Grundy won't just tear us a new one in round 1 without any resistance whatsoever. He may still do so, but we should at least put up a fight.

One of the storylines of this game has to be English.

He's finally got some strong support in Martin, nobody expects either one of them to actually beat Grundy, but we absolutely expect a MUCH fiercer contest.

English's last two games against Grundy have been soul destroying, so Round 1 is a huge moment for him specifically. I'm quietly confident he can be a real difference maker with his ability to punish Collingwood going forward.

[comrade]

One of the storylines of this game has to be English.

He's finally got some strong support in Martin, nobody expects either one of them to actually beat Grundy, but we absolutely expect a MUCH fiercer contest.

English's last two games against Grundy have been soul destroying, so Round 1 is a huge moment for him specifically. I'm quietly confident he can be a real difference maker with his ability to punish Collingwood going forward.

English was done within the first few minutes the last 2 years, completely between the ears. Knowing he has Martin to take the burden of no 1 ruck should free him up mentally to be much more assertive. Fingers crossed.

[The bulldog tragician]

[B]
I’ve been a little surprised that people have criticised Gardner because all he does is spoil from behind. That is exactly what I’d like from a lockdown defender. The problem I currently have with Ryan is he gets outmuscled/out positioned too often but hopefully he can work on that. The intercepting can be left to others like Crozier/Wood/Keath etc. Not every defender needs to be an interceptor.

The problem with our defence is the overall workings. We seem lost a lot and most importantly are lacking the guy who can lockdown the big forward. I really hope Gardner can become that but I’m not confident. Keath needs to be freed up to play interceptor. It would only take one recruit to see a major difference.

It’s ancient history now but I guess the big question I have with Ryan G is why, if we are happy to have just a lockdown spoil from behind, low possession gathering guy, did we get rid of Fletcher Roberts? He had all the same attributes but was much ahead of Ryan in terms of his body positioning and defending nous, and had played finals where he didn’t do too much wrong. He was still just 25 when delisted having been continually overlooked. Which would have made sense if it was his lack of qualitative sheen that was the reason, but how exactly Gardner is an upgrade, I can’t understand apart from the usual “who knows what goes on in the mind of Bevo” explanation....

[azabob]

Gotta say, one of the best things about having Stef Martin is knowing Grundy won't just tear us a new one in round 1 without any resistance whatsoever. He may still do so, but we should at least put up a fight.

What odds we go in with just English and not Martin?

[bulldogsthru&thru]

[B]

It’s ancient history now but I guess the big question I have with Ryan G is why, if we are happy to have just a lockdown spoil from behind, low possession gathering guy, did we get rid of Fletcher Roberts? He had all the same attributes but was much ahead of Ryan in terms of his body positioning and defending nous, and had played finals where he didn’t do too much wrong. He was still just 25 when delisted having been continually overlooked. Which would have made sense if it was his lack of qualitative sheen that was the reason, but how exactly Gardner is an upgrade, I can’t understand apart from the usual “who knows what goes on in the mind of Bevo” explanation....
I think Ryan is more agile/athletic than Fletcher. But yes it’s slim pickings to go and say delist Fletcher for the tiniest hopeful upgrade in Gardner. But this is such classic Bevo. We’d back him in with stuff like this in 2017 and 2018. Unfortunately he’s getting more wrong than right these days.

[comrade]

What odds we go in with just English and not Martin?

Please don't give anyone ideas.

[Dry Rot]

What odds we go in with just English and not Martin?

Or neither of them?

Dunks and Bont can handle ruck for us vs Grundy.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

What odds we go in with just English and not Martin?

Sadly it just wouldn’t surprise me.

[Jeanette54]

Or neither of them?

Dunks and Bont can handle ruck for us vs Grundy.

It would be an interesting exercise to see what would happen if a team actually set up to concede the ruck duels. It happens every now and then when nobody is nominated for a boundary throw in, or ball up. The result is not always what you might think, ie. the team with the only nominated ruckman wins the ball. I know we appeared to more or less set up that way for short periods of the game, with English resting. But with such a strong midfield is it worth consideration ?

[EasternWest]

It would be an interesting exercise to see what would happen if a team actually set up to concede the ruck duels. It happens every now and then when nobody is nominated for a boundary throw in, or ball up. The result is not always what you might think, ie. the team with the only nominated ruckman wins the ball. I know we appeared to more or less set up that way for short periods of the game, with English resting. But with such a strong midfield is it worth consideration ?

I know AFL is not Southern District reserves but occasionally I'd get forced to ruck and I was such a poor choice for a ruckman (only 6'1" and not athletic) that I wouldn't ruck at all - I'd just rove to the opposition ruckman.

It was surprisingly effective. I remember one game the opposition ruckman got so frustrated he ended up just punching it forward.

Again, I reiterate, Southern 2's is not AFL.

[comrade]

It would be an interesting exercise to see what would happen if a team actually set up to concede the ruck duels. It happens every now and then when nobody is nominated for a boundary throw in, or ball up. The result is not always what you might think, ie. the team with the only nominated ruckman wins the ball. I know we appeared to more or less set up that way for short periods of the game, with English resting. But with such a strong midfield is it worth consideration ?

Again, please don't give anyone ideas :D

[bulldogsthru&thru]

It would be an interesting exercise to see what would happen if a team actually set up to concede the ruck duels. It happens every now and then when nobody is nominated for a boundary throw in, or ball up. The result is not always what you might think, ie. the team with the only nominated ruckman wins the ball. I know we appeared to more or less set up that way for short periods of the game, with English resting. But with such a strong midfield is it worth consideration ?

Isn’t this what we’ve been doing the past 3 years?

[jeemak]

I think Ryan is more agile/athletic than Fletcher. But yes it’s slim pickings to go and say delist Fletcher for the tiniest hopeful upgrade in Gardner. But this is such classic Bevo. We’d back him in with stuff like this in 2017 and 2018. Unfortunately he’s getting more wrong than right these days.

Which ones?

[mjp]

What odds we go in with just English and not Martin?

If we go with both then we will be very thin elsewhere. I think both ruckman will play but there is no doubt it leaves us ‘skinny’ for runners...

Just a choice that has to be made. Your bench is either one defender, one forward, one inside mid and one outside mid OR it includes a player who is primarily a backup ruckman leaving you one short elsewhere. And yes, you ‘can probably’ cover an injury but with 75 rotations it is more of a decision than most care to acknowledge.

[Go_Dogs]

If we go with both then we will be very thin elsewhere. I think both ruckman will play but there is no doubt it leaves us ‘skinny’ for runners...

Just a choice that has to be made. Your bench is either one defender, one forward, one inside mid and one outside mid OR it includes a player who is primarily a backup ruckman leaving you one short elsewhere. And yes, you ‘can probably’ cover an injury but with 75 rotations it is more of a decision than most care to acknowledge.

We have 47 midfielders though. So will be OK.

Pre season is finally over and the meaningful stuff can start. No excuses now and no more hypothetical. Hope we’re switched on and ready for the long season ahead.

[Before I Die]

If we go with both then we will be very thin elsewhere. I think both ruckman will play but there is no doubt it leaves us ‘skinny’ for runners...

Just a choice that has to be made. Your bench is either one defender, one forward, one inside mid and one outside mid OR it includes a player who is primarily a backup ruckman leaving you one short elsewhere. And yes, you ‘can probably’ cover an injury but with 75 rotations it is more of a decision than most care to acknowledge.

Do we have many players who are solely pigeon holed as defender, forward, inside mid, outside mid, these days? Plus the flexibility of English to play in a key forward post provides the flexibility to swing other key position players between each end of the field. I only see Martin playing first ruck as a problem if he is getting badly beaten, which hopefully will not arise. He is almost alone as a one dimensional payer for us.

Is the primary role of the bench injury backup or rotations for our runners? I’m sure it is a bit of both, but with just 75 rotations I suspect the need for runners dominates. Not sure if this last point supports or diminishes my earlier statements.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Which ones?

Why do you make me accountable for my outlandish statements?

I didn't keep a journal so forgive me for having to take it from the top of my head. But things like:

-Retaining and also playing guys on the list who we all know are not up to it and who subsequently (in the same season they were given multiple games after proving how bad they were) got delisted. Guys like Gowers, Lloyd and I hate to say it, 2020 Dickson.
-He gives multiple games to players and then we never see them again. Butler, Greene, Lynch, Young, Hayes etc. This could be seen as good or bad or out of necessity but it adds to the inconsistent messages being sent.
-Continuing to go with 1 ruck despite it costing us again and again. I know we didn't really have a backup option but it's our own fault for not valuing a solid backup and recruiting one. Now looks whats happening when we finally have.
-Easton Wood forward.
-We recruited Schache, then Bruce whilst switching Naughton forward. Suddenly we have too many talls and not enough defenders.

[Mofra]

If we go with both then we will be very thin elsewhere. I think both ruckman will play but there is no doubt it leaves us ‘skinny’ for runners...

Just a choice that has to be made. Your bench is either one defender, one forward, one inside mid and one outside mid OR it includes a player who is primarily a backup ruckman leaving you one short elsewhere. And yes, you ‘can probably’ cover an injury but with 75 rotations it is more of a decision than most care to acknowledge.
If Naughton doesn't play we don't name a tall replacement, but an extra 'runner/utlity'. Problem solved.
English/Bruce is enough height up forward considering Zont/Dunk (190cm+) will rest up forward and Wallis is a 'stand and mark' player rather than a crumber.

[bornadog]

-Retaining and also playing guys on the list who we all know are not up to it and who subsequently (in the same season they were given multiple games after proving how bad they were) got delisted. Guys like Gowers, Lloyd and I hate to say it, 2020 Dickson.

All our leading goal kickers - I can't see any problems with this.


-He gives multiple games to players and then we never see them again. Butler, Greene, Lynch, Young, Hayes etc.

I have no problem giving young players a go. All those players lost form and couldn't get back in the team.


Continuing to go with 1 ruck despite it costing us again and again.

In 2019 Tom Boyd retired for one reason or another and would have made a great duet with English. WE brought in Sweet as a rookie, but he just hasn't kicked on. There was no one else so we recruited Martin. Not easy to recruit ready made rucks.


-Easton Wood forward.
-We recruited Schache, then Bruce whilst switching Naughton forward. Suddenly we have too many talls and not enough defenders.


Easton Wood, one and a half games forward. We needed some one up there, the coach tried him and it didn't work. I like a coach who tried different things to win games. I can't see an issue here.

Schache is worth pursuing with, we need backup KPPs

[mjp]

If Naughton doesn't play we don't name a tall replacement, but an extra 'runner/utlity'. Problem solved.
English/Bruce is enough height up forward considering Zont/Dunk (190cm+) will rest up forward and Wallis is a 'stand and mark' player rather than a crumber.

Yes...but setting this week aside, Naughton is going to play 'eventually'.

I personally think only 2 out of Martin, English and Bruce/Schache (take your pick) should play. If English is now a key forward come ruckman, fine...we don't need 3 of those so Bruce misses.

I don't think we WILL do that but something has got to give. And with only 75 rotations, using them for key forwards is just plain dumb.

[comrade]

Yes...but setting this week aside, Naughton is going to play 'eventually'.

I personally think only 2 out of Martin, English and Bruce/Schache (take your pick) should play. If English is now a key forward come ruckman, fine...we don't need 3 of those so Bruce misses.

I don't think we WILL do that but something has got to give. And with only 75 rotations, using them for key forwards is just plain dumb.

Doesn't playing Naughton in defence solve this?

Martin rucks 80%, English plays forward 80% and Bruce is our stay at home tall forward. This gives us the flexibility of bringing in another small.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

All our leading goal kickers - I can't see any problems with this.


I have no problem giving young players a go. All those players lost form and couldn't get back in the team.



In 2019 Tom Boyd retired for one reason or another and would have made a great duet with English. WE brought in Sweet as a rookie, but he just hasn't kicked on. There was no one else so we recruited Martin. Not easy to recruit ready made rucks.




Easton Wood, one and a half games forward. We needed some one up there, the coach tried him and it didn't work. I like a coach who tried different things to win games. I can't see an issue here.

Schache is worth pursuing with, we need backup KPPs

I love your glass half full approach BAD :)


All our leading goal kickers - I can't see any problems with this.

I don't have a problem with the initial recruitment of these players. It's the final years of their tenure with us that bothers me. They were clearly finished. And the end of season delistings prove that Bevo thought the same. Yet he continued to play them for multiple stints last year, despite them clearly showing they were incapable of playing at the level required. Gowers stupidly nearly cost us the GC game which would have cost us finals. We can't toy around with list spots and senior games.


I have no problem giving young players a go. All those players lost form and couldn't get back in the team.
Did they lose form? We'd have no idea if they lost form as we heard nothing about our reserves games last year. That may just be an assumption purely because they weren't played in the seniors. Anyway, I'm fine with players being given a go but there has to be some merit to it. Each game of AFL counts and if a player isn't ready, he's better off working up form in the reserves first. Was there really merit for these guys to play considering they were effectively never seen again after their initial stint? And if there was merit, how could they fall of the radar so badly that guys like Lloyd and Gowers were given games ahead of them despite them being delisted at the end of the year?



In 2019 Tom Boyd retired for one reason or another and would have made a great duet with English. WE brought in Sweet as a rookie, but he just hasn't kicked on. There was no one else so we recruited Martin. Not easy to recruit ready made rucks.
I take your point but Boyds issues didn't come from nowhere. We should have had some contingency in place given how raw English was/is. Fact is Bevo just doesn't rate the ruck so we didn't place importance in this area. I think the game just got away from him here and he's finally relented.


Easton Wood, one and a half games forward. We needed some one up there, the coach tried him and it didn't work. I like a coach who tried different things to win games. I can't see an issue here.

Schache is worth pursuing with, we need backup KPPs

See, this is the problem. Wood did a whole preseason up forward. Months spent training up forward. Then after a one game sh*t show, Bevo pulls the pin on the whole plan. You've got to then wonder what the hell he is doing at training when he rips up his playbook after 1 game. If you have faith in your thinking, back it in for longer than 5 minutes.

I agree Schache is worth pursuing with. No problems there. But Bevo doesn't want to play him and instead persists with a guy who has shown even less in what is supposed to be his peak years.I have no problem with the recruitment of Bruce either. The problem for me is more around how our planning is done around list balance.

[kruder]

Who replaces Corizer in Defence? Without him coming across to help out, I think we need to add another tall. Id go Young let's see what he can do for the period. If we are too tall on some occasions I think we can let Keathy get more dangerous, he is more than just a lockdown defender.

I have a feeling if we go 2 rucks though, Bevo will go short for team balance hence Scott/JJ more likely to play.

[comrade]

Who replaces Corizer in Defence? Without him coming across to help out, I think we need to add another tall. Id go Young let's see what he can do for the period. If we are too tall on some occasions I think we can let Keathy get more dangerous, he is more than just a lockdown defender.

I have a feeling if we go 2 rucks though, Bevo will go short for team balance hence Scott/JJ more likely to play.

I think Khamis would be a good like for like replacement in terms of skill set. Huge ask for a debutant though.

Collingwood doesn't really have too much height up forward that requires the constant third man up/spoiling that Crozier loves doing, so I'd go with Duryea to offer some good defensive positioning and kicking. Has to keep his feet though.

[kruder]

I think Khamis would be a good like for like replacement in terms of skill set. Huge ask for a debutant though.

Collingwood doesn't really have too much height up forward that requires the constant third man up/spoiling that Crozier loves doing, so I'd go with Duryea to offer some good defensive positioning and kicking. Has to keep his feet though.

Yeah i still think we need to come across Cox and help. They generally play 2 rucks also hence Cameron might start forward, it is possible we have Timmy go back at times for sure.

He is a nice kick Khamis, defensive spoiling coming across look great but as soon as the ball hit the ground looks well off the pace.

Is Doc available thought he was underdone? I think he is best 22 also. I'm just not a fan of having DOC, Caleb and Williams for defensive cover with Keathy and Gardner as the 2 main talls think we will get exposed even against Collingwood.

[Mofra]

Doesn't playing Naughton in defence solve this?

Martin rucks 80%, English plays forward 80% and Bruce is our stay at home tall forward. This gives us the flexibility of bringing in another small.
I much prefer Naughton forward as a player, but for team balance he has to play a swingman role. If we play one less runner he goes back during redtime in each quarter because that's the danger period.

[Hotdog60]

Being too tall isn't a problem providing every time you get near it you mark it. :)