Always Right Match Committee - Round 8 Vs Carlton 2021

[Scraggers]

Welcome to the Always Right Match Committee Thread. The Match Committee threads has been named after long time WOOF member Always Right who tragically passed away in March 2018.


If you were on the Western Bulldogs match committee what changes would you make after our Round 7 match against Richmond for our Round 8, 2021 match against Caaaaaaarlton at Marvel on Mother's Day?

For those new to these threads, please give a brief explanation for your changes ... this would add a lot of value to the discussion.

[GVGjr]

Bumpity Bump

[bulldogtragic]

No change. You *!*!*!*! it up, you fix it.

[MrMahatma]

English in. Schache out.

The rest is confusing and our so called depth is a bit poor.

[DOG GOD]

In- someone who can play on Harry.
Out- throw a dart at 5-6 players

[macca]

Out: Martin , schache and JJ
In : sweet, vanders and Buku


We need to go through more of our list and see who else can play
I’m going to stick with west as he needs a few games under his belt.


Houli spoke after teh game that they have ready players to replace the 2 mature mids they lost, and trust in their system

[Scraggers]

No change. You *!*!*!*! it up, you fix it.

Thank you … I need a laugh

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Out: Martin , schache and JJ
In : sweet, vanders and Buku


We need to go through more of our list and see who else can play
I’m going to stick with west as he needs a few games under his belt.


Houli spoke after teh game that they have ready players to replace the 2 mature mids they lost, and trust in their system
I thought the decision to play Sweet and Lew Young in the ruck against GCS in the first half looked to be a fine combination with their dominance. This would allow English to play as a permanent forward where he is better suited. Vandemeer provides the ground speed we lack and JJ away from defence is exposed. Schache was poor tonight but so was Bruce.

[westbulldog]

Out Cordy ,not up to it as a KPD. Schache, alas completely devoid of confidence.
In Sweet/English Khamis/Young

West and JJ get another chance (just).

[jazzadogs]

I'd be happy for JJ to be gone for Mcneill. He offers nothing as a half-forward. Westy had a poor game but we have more to learn about him - we know where JJ is at. I don't see VDM being back immediately, although it is a 9 day break.

English will be back so Schache has to be the one who goes.

Would love to find a way to get Buku in. Can Cordy go for him, or does that leave us too exposed for height?

[soupman]

English in for Schache. If English isn't right I'd give Josh one more week, but can't see Bevo being so kind.

JJ out for McNeill or Vandermeer or Weightman.

West gets another week. Although someone please tell him he isn't big enough to just run into the open arms of opponents at AFL level.

Would love to drop Cordy, but for what?

[Scraggers]

English in for Schache. If English isn't right I'd give Josh one more week, but can't see Bevo being so kind.

JJ out for McNeill or Vandermeer or Weightman.

West gets another week. Although someone please tell him he isn't big enough to just run into the open arms of opponents at AFL level.

Would love to drop Cordy, but for what?

What about giving Buku a go? I can’t see him doing worse than Cordy

[soupman]

What about giving Buku a go? I can’t see him doing worse than Cordy

Not really a key defender though I didn't think. Certainly wouldn't have debuted him to play specifically on Riewoldt and a pissed off Richmond. Would like to see him though, but I suspect he is more gunning for one of Crozier, Wood or Duryeas spots.

[boydogs]

Out: Martin, Schache
In: Sweet, Vandermeer

[soupman]

Out: Martin, Schache
In: Sweet, Vandermeer

Oooh this is different.

So we go one less tall (is this assuming English isn't right?) and while Martin wasn't great why are we dropping him and what does Sweet offer he doesn't?

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Would love to drop Cordy, but for what?

Might sound harsh, but does it matter?

What does Cordy actually bring? If anyone says the ability to compete, losing almost every 1-v1 is not my idea of competing and I'm not even taking last night into consideration because he's never laying a glove on Lynch. He was set up to fail.

Cordy doesn't rebound, he's the slowest on the list, he doesn't mark the ball, he's undersized... I'm not sure what the point of playing him is? At AFL level you need to bring at least ONE standout trait. Young isn't the long term answer but at least when he plays well, he has the ability to read the play and intercept mark which allows us to win the ball back and attack. Cordy doesn't defend and he doesn't attack so why persist?

If it were up to me he wouldn't even be on the list.

[Mantis]

Might sound harsh, but does it matter?

What does Cordy actually bring? If anyone says the ability to compete, losing almost every 1-v1 is not my idea of competing and I'm not even taking last night into consideration because he's never laying a glove on Lynch. He was set up to fail.

Cordy doesn't rebound, he's the slowest on the list, he doesn't mark the ball, he's undersized... I'm not sure what the point of playing him is? At AFL level you need to bring at least ONE standout trait. Young isn't the long term answer but at least when he plays well, he has the ability to read the play and intercept mark which allows us to win the ball back and attack. Cordy doesn't defend and he doesn't attack so why persist?

If it were up to me he wouldn't even be on the list.

I’m not sure I get what you mean. :D

It is an interesting point though, what AFL qualities does Zaine have? There isn’t anything he really excels at and with the deficiencies he has he is struggling to find a role.

[AshMac]

Out: JJ, schache, Cordy, (not dropped, punted out of whiten oval)

In: English, vandermeer, don’t know

[comrade]

Might sound harsh, but does it matter?

What does Cordy actually bring? If anyone says the ability to compete, losing almost every 1-v1 is not my idea of competing and I'm not even taking last night into consideration because he's never laying a glove on Lynch. He was set up to fail.

Cordy doesn't rebound, he's the slowest on the list, he doesn't mark the ball, he's undersized... I'm not sure what the point of playing him is? At AFL level you need to bring at least ONE standout trait. Young isn't the long term answer but at least when he plays well, he has the ability to read the play and intercept mark which allows us to win the ball back and attack. Cordy doesn't defend and he doesn't attack so why persist?

If it were up to me he wouldn't even be on the list.

All I can say is: yep

[DOG GOD]

Might sound harsh, but does it matter?

What does Cordy actually bring? If anyone says the ability to compete, losing almost every 1-v1 is not my idea of competing and I'm not even taking last night into consideration because he's never laying a glove on Lynch. He was set up to fail.

Cordy doesn't rebound, he's the slowest on the list, he doesn't mark the ball, he's undersized... I'm not sure what the point of playing him is? At AFL level you need to bring at least ONE standout trait. Young isn't the long term answer but at least when he plays well, he has the ability to read the play and intercept mark which allows us to win the ball back and attack. Cordy doesn't defend and he doesn't attack so why persist?

If it were up to me he wouldn't even be on the list.

Agree. I just get baffled why we persist with Cordy when we have a more agile, capable marking, taller defender playing VFL.

[Happy Days]

Out: Schache, JJ, Cordy

In: English, Khamis, Vandermeer

Rough night for some guys I've spent some bandwidth defending. Playing JJ is compounding his issues right now, he needs to play a block of twos footy and remember that he's actually good as hell at the game.

Schache can never fully never play again. He just doesn't have it in him.

[Mofra]

Agree. I just get baffled why we persist with Cordy when we have a more agile, capable marking, taller defender playing VFL.
Because Young played like Cordy did last game, but without the competitiveness.

The problem was the midfield losing 7+ centre clearances in a row in the 3/4rd quarter, not a KPD we already knew was outclassed.

English comes in for Schache. JJ was out of the game but he was playing in the HF dead zone, but if VDM is fit that's an easy swap.
I'm really keen to find a way to get Weightman into the team. I know there are probably a couple ahead of him but if we lack energy around the contest, he's the most energetic on the list.

[Testekill]

Cordy doesn't have that much height on Khamis and that's not taking Khamis' clear edge in pace and agility, might as well see what he can do. Young also covers Cordy for height and pace although he's no competitive at all.

[Bullies]

What about giving Buku a go? I can’t see him doing worse than Cordy We actually miss Gardiner more than some people want to admit. He has excellent closing speed and reads the play quite well compared to Cordy. His last 5 games in 2020 and the beginning of this year showed he had improved.

[Bullies]

Cordy doesn't have that much height on Khamis and that's not taking Khamis' clear edge in pace and agility, might as well see what he can do. Young also covers Cordy for height and pace although he's no competitive at all.
Young will get slaughtered by Harry and Casboult seems to save his best for us. Young is ok playing loose man in the back line.

[bornadog]

Young will get slaughtered by Harry and Casboult seems to save his best for us. Young is ok playing loose man in the back line.

Trouble is there is no one else.

See how they go in the VFL today before I make up my mind on selection.

[G-Mo77]

Young will get slaughtered by Harry and Casboult seems to save his best for us. Young is ok playing loose man in the back line.

How do we know? He never gets much of a chance. Just play him, he's the best we've got.

[bornadog]

At this stage I would drop Schache, JJ, West, Cordy, but I don't know who to bring in at this stage

[soupman]

We actually miss Gardiner more than some people want to admit. He has excellent closing speed and reads the play quite well compared to Cordy. His last 5 games in 2020 and the beginning of this year showed he had improved.

Not sure how much of it is missing Gardner and how much is missing an actual competent key defender. Gardner is the best of a poor lot. I wish we had someone actually good on the list to miss, none of the options are even potentially that good (Khamis is not a key defender).

[Rocco Jones]

In: English, Young, McNeil, Sweet
Out: Schache, Cordy, JJ, Stef

Medical sub: Wally

[comrade]

In: English, Young, McNeil, Sweet
Out: Schache, Cordy, JJ, Stef

Medical sub: Wally

If Stef is cooked (and he did get worked over by Nank), I'm happy with all these. Schache and JJ can't play next week and Cordy just has no AFL level traits.

[bornadog]

If Stef is cooked (and he did get worked over by Nank), I'm happy with all these. Schache and JJ can't play next week and Cordy just has no AFL level traits.

Martin won the hitouts but was beaten around the ground.

I wouldn't be dropping him.

[boydogs]

Oooh this is different.

So we go one less tall (is this assuming English isn't right?) and while Martin wasn't great why are we dropping him and what does Sweet offer he doesn't?

Naughton, Bruce & Schache were all flying for the same ball at times. They all seemed to stand 10 metres apart and our mids bombed in their general direction, so that at least one if not 2 or 3 can contest for the mark. I didn't see a lot of synergy and working together. Riewoldt was dummy leading, blocking, leading up the ground or to the other side and moving the ball quickly to Lynch once he marked it

Until we can mature our setup and delivery I don't think we lose much by reducing the number of tall forwards. Schache was uncompetitive so is first to go

Martin was a witches hat away from the ruck contest, he looks old and immobile. He did alright at centre bounces, throw ins and ball ups but was otherwise a liability. Sweet's not great around the ground either but was dominant in the ruck in his first game. English has been great as a forward and serviceable as a ruck this year but had a terrible game before he was concussed, I don't think we need or use the extra tall forward and I rate Sweet above English as a ruck

[FrediKanoute]

Out: Schache, Hannan, JJ, Scott

In: English, Wallis, Garcia, McNeil

Cordy maybe, but only if you bring in Lew Young. I think the kid needs to play and its either him or Cordy, but I don't believe Cordy deserves the criticism he is getting here.

[MrMahatma]

I’m not sure I get what you mean. :D

It is an interesting point though, what AFL qualities does Zaine have? There isn’t anything he really excels at and with the deficiencies he has he is struggling to find a role.

What about that sweet, sweet left foot?!

[Bulldog4life]

What about that sweet, sweet left foot?!

I hate it.

[kruder]

Just on all the JJ comments, is it just me or does he look a little heavy? He looks too big up top to me he has definitely lost a yard of speed along with the confidence to use it.

[bornadog]

Just on all the JJ comments, is it just me or does he look a little heavy? He looks too big up top to me he has definitely lost a yard of speed along with the confidence to use it.

He is just not a small forward.

[mjp]

What about that sweet, sweet left foot?!

Is his left foot that bad? I was frustrated when he kicked with his left when he could have used his right, but it isn't like his left leg is only there for balance...

I think his body language is bad and he gives the impression he is cooked when he's fine...

[Hotdog60]

I think his body language is bad and he gives the impression he is cooked when he's fine...

That's just him giving his opponent a false sense of security and then like a praying mantis he strikes....

[angelopetraglia]

Could JJ do a shutdown role on Saad? He definitely has the wheels to go with him.

[GVGjr]

Could JJ do a shutdown role on Saad? He definitely has the wheels to go with him.

I think he could, he might need to start modifying his game to command a spot. Ironically it wasn't that long ago he was a defender getting tagged by the opposition.

[bornadog]

Could JJ do a shutdown role on Saad? He definitely has the wheels to go with him.

He should have tagged Houli who killed us on the rebound

[The Bulldogs Bite]

He should have tagged Houli who killed us on the rebound

Who did Houli play on? Destroyed us.

[Scraggers]

Out: Schache, Hannan, JJ, Scott

In: English, Wallis, Garcia, McNeil

Cordy maybe, but only if you bring in Lew Young. I think the kid needs to play and its either him or Cordy, but I don't believe Cordy deserves the criticism he is getting here.

Yep … I like this.

[Mantis]

Out: Schache, Hannan, JJ, Scott

In: English, Wallis, Garcia, McNeil

Cordy maybe, but only if you bring in Lew Young. I think the kid needs to play and its either him or Cordy, but I don't believe Cordy deserves the criticism he is getting here.

Why in your opinion was Zaine's game better than the rest of us are judging him on?

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I don't think Zaine necessarily played bad either. He just played to his capabilities which unfortunately is no longer AFL standard. He's undersized for a KPD and too slow for anything else. I think his time at AFL level is over and him getting a game for us highlights our KPD stock deficiencies.

[1eyedog]

Why in your opinion was Zaine's game better than the rest of us are judging him on?

I know the question is not directed at me but I'll jump in to just say that on Friday night Zaine Cordy and Alex Keath were Poland 1939. There was only going to be one result against the Blitzkrieg-like high ball entries they experienced. Richmond smelt blood down there before the game and fully exploited it. It's not so much about Zaine having a good game or a bad game it's more about the fact that he was severely undersized for the role assigned to him coupled with the sheer weight of high ball entries he had to contend with. Sure he buckled, sure he brain faded on the line but sheez he was up against it for extended periods and a little bit of help up the ground wouldn't have gone astray. I'm happy for Zaine to stay in but he needs to play on the third tall. He can't be playing on McKay or Casboult. If that means bringing Lewy in as well then so be it. I'm sick of being undermanned in defence and I'm sure Zaine is as well, he's on a hiding to nothing.

Other posts have raised interesting points regarding his skill set. If he plays on the third tall like he should can he find the balance between being able to defend and launch? Can he do this? He's been a lockdown second tall for so long I'm not so sure. I think his game has been stunted by being played out of position for so long. I think Wood and Crozier (and Williams when he returns) are equally proficient in the air against a third tall and far more accomplished at helping get the ball out of D50 in a clean and systematic manner.

Poor Zaine he should be Dylan Grimes but he's just not savage enough and probably lacks a yard of pace.

[comrade]

I don't think Zaine necessarily played bad either. He just played to his capabilities which unfortunately is no longer AFL standard. He's undersized for a KPD and too slow for anything else. I think his time at AFL level is over and him getting a game for us highlights our KPD stock deficiencies.

Yeah, I agree with this. He’s just not equipped to take good key forwards, and Crozier/Wood are way ahead of him when it comes tot taking the mid sized guys. He just doesn’t have the physical tools and no amount of ‘competitiveness’ can make up for it.

[Mantis]

I know the question is not directed at me but I'll jump in to just say that on Friday night Zaine Cordy and Alex Keath were Poland 1939. There was only going to be one result against the Blitzkrieg-like high ball entries they experienced. Richmond smelt blood down there before the game and fully exploited it. It's not so much about Zaine having a good game or a bad game it's more about the fact that he was severely undersized for the role assigned to him coupled with the sheer weight of high ball entries he had to contend with. Sure he buckled, sure he brain faded on the line but sheez he was up against it for extended periods and a little bit of help up the ground wouldn't have gone astray. I'm happy for Zaine to stay in but he needs to play on the third tall. He can't be playing on McKay or Casboult. If that means bringing Lewy in as well then so be it. I'm sick of being undermanned in defence and I'm sure Zaine is as well, he's on a hiding to nothing.

Other posts have raised interesting points regarding his skill set. If he plays on the third tall like he should can he find the balance between being able to defend and launch? Can he do this? He's been a lockdown second tall for so long I'm not so sure. I think his game has been stunted by being played out of position for so long. I think Wood and Crozier (and Williams when he returns) are equally proficient in the air against a third tall and far more accomplished at helping get the ball out of D50 in a clean and systematic manner.

Poor Zaine he should be Dylan Grimes but he's just not savage enough and probably lacks a yard of pace.

I have no idea why Zaine was matched up on Lynch to start with, it's a question only the MC can answer, but it was a dumb move... and it cost us. Zaine is the same height as Riewoldt and only a couple of kilo's lighter (going by the stats I viewed) so it seems a no-brainer that he plays on Riewoldt from the start, but perhaps that was too sensible a move?

As mentioned Zaine is a bit in no-man's land in terms of a role and I think it's time to look at someone else.

[comrade]

I have no idea why Zaine was matched up on Lynch to start with, it's a question only the MC can answer, but it was a dumb move... and it cost us. Zaine is the same height as Riewoldt and only a couple of kilo's lighter (going by the stats I viewed) so it seems a no-brainer that he plays on Riewoldt from the start, but perhaps that was too sensible a move?

As mentioned Zaine is a bit in no-man's land in terms of a role and I think it's time to look at someone else.

Zaine on Lynch and Schache on Balta all night. Dimma must have been chuckling in the coaches box.

[Happy Days]

We’ve gotta play Lewis Young this week. His form up and downs are pretty akin to Cordy’s but his ceiling is so much higher, and he really was excellent in the 2s.

[Grantysghost]

He should have tagged Houli who killed us on the rebound

Wonder if Bevo would be well supplemented with a decent match day coach to advocate for changes when the "system" is being beaten.

Maybe he does, but there was no clear evidence of it on Friday and my memory doesn't work well enough to go back further :cool:.

Not saying he's not a good match day coach, but they must've seen some of the glaring issues on Friday.
Tigers bringing extras up from forward line, Houli running rampant, Lynch match up, Schache postioning.

I often see an animated Dean Cox in the Swans coaches box, quite often in heated discussion with Longmire.

Without knowing how our setup works I wonder from a distance if we need a similar dissenting voice.

[dog town]

Wonder if Bevo would be well supplemented with a decent match day coach to advocate for changes when the "system" is being beaten.

Maybe he does, but there was no clear evidence of it on Friday and my memory doesn't work well enough to go back further :cool:.

Not saying he's not a good match day coach, but they must've seen some of the glaring issues on Friday.
Tigers bringing extras up from forward line, Houli running rampant, Lynch match up, Schache postioning.

I often see an animated Dean Cox in the Swans coaches box, quite often in heated discussion with Longmire.

Without knowing how our setup works I wonder from a distance if we need a similar dissenting voice. Will always be matches that get away from you or decisions that don’t come off, that’s the game. I am more than comfortable with the tactical and game day acumen of Luke Beveridge. Widely regarded as exceptional in this aspect.

[Mantis]

Zaine on Lynch and Schache on Balta all night. Dimma must have been chuckling in the coaches box.

Broad on West wasn't advantageous to us either.... I really battled with our forward-line set up and positioning on Friday night. It was all over the shop.

Why did we have Hannan on the wing for large parts?
Why did it seem our 3 talls were always our deepest forwards?
Why didn't someone (JJ or Scott) try and lock-down Houli?

I'm going to refrain from doing my ins & outs until we get a feel for who might be back, but I think our defence needs a big re-shuffle and feel we're carrying too many of the same type down there and need some POD. Also think we need to work out our best fit for the wing role as we aren't using this position like other good teams are.

[Sedat]

As mentioned Zaine is a bit in no-man's land in terms of a role and I think it's time to look at someone else.
Agree with that but the key part of the above statement is "someone else". Lewis Young has fans here but he is similarly unreliable. Schache and Bruce are desperation suggestions. I see no downside to giving Khamis a run - he is different but can offer aerial cover through his leap and can also provide run and carry - we've been a bit stodgy in that area since we lost Williams. Wood is Wood (doing the Morris role well but doesn't provide any attacking drive), Crozier is out of form and Daniel is also not at his best.

[westbulldog]

Zaine is NOT a kpd, even when we were on top/competitive in the first 1/4 I think Lynch took 5 or so marks in the first 10 minutes. Cordy is alas no longer AFL standard as the speed of the game this year has gone past him. Friday was a finals preview and his performance is exactly what we could expect in such a match imo. Harry McKay would be eyeing the Coleman medal.

[Mantis]

Agree with that but the key part of the above statement is "someone else". Lewis Young has fans here but he is similarly unreliable. Schache and Bruce are desperation suggestions. I see no downside to giving Khamis a run - he is different but can offer aerial cover through his leap and can also provide run and carry - we've been a bit stodgy in that area since we lost Williams. Wood is Wood (doing the Morris role well but doesn't provide any attacking drive), Crozier is out of form and Daniel is also not at his best.

I'm all for swapping in Khamis for Crozier who isn't providing us much at all at present... and TBH hasn't for a while.

Williams is a huge, huge loss for us... His ability to navigate through traffic and buy space for himself (and others) is such a rare asset.

I'm not sold on Young either, but he at least can take a mark and has some aerial presence... he clearly is on the nose with Bevo, but he isn't afforded the same luxuries in terms of chances as the players he competes with a spot with which I'm calling out as BS... He was very good against Brisbane and then was the fall guy after a 10 goal victory. I would've been *!*!*!*!ing shitty too if I was axed in these circumstances after waiting so long for an opportunity.

[Grantysghost]

Will always be matches that get away from you or decisions that don’t come off, that’s the game. I am more than comfortable with the tactical and game day acumen of Luke Beveridge. Widely regarded as exceptional in this aspect.

Fair enough, I'm not as sure, he may well be amazing I just was left scratching my head a few times on Friday.
Dissenting voices, disruption can be good.
Wonder if Matthew Boyd would be useful in this type of role; recent conversations I've had with some people close to it relay he can be bloody stubborn our Luke :cool: (think we already know this).

Re changes this week to keep it on thread, in the VFL game I thought Garcia, Khamis, Sweet, Weightman, Wallis were the standouts.
Not sure yet what changes I'd make.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

The discussion on this forum following our first loss have been really interesting. Beveridge needs matchday tactical support, our depth sucks, Beveridge gives certain players way more leeway than others etc. 2020 vibes everywhere minus the ruck problem.

Our 6-0 start was great, but our 2nd half on Friday did have me thinking of 2020. As usual, the reality is somewhere in the middle. Like the ruck problem, the issues currently being discussed on here have been around for some time.

[1eyedog]

Aside from Chill ins and outs for this week feel a bit like shuffling deck chairs. Thought Wally would come in before Hannan but I suppose we need to justify that acquisition. If we brought him in we're keen on him so can't see him being changed out for Wally.

Outs: Schache, Cordy
Ins: Chilli, Lewy

[comrade]

The discussion on this forum following our first loss have been really interesting. Beveridge needs matchday tactical support, our depth sucks, Beveridge gives certain players way more leeway than others etc. 2020 vibes everywhere minus the ruck problem.

Our 6-0 start was great, but our 2nd half on Friday did have me thinking of 2020. As usual, the reality is somewhere in the middle. Like the ruck problem, the issues currently being discussed on here have been around for some time.

When we lose, it’s usually in the same way every time. Midfield rolls over and we get beaten in the air in defence. It’s the blueprint.

[comrade]

Aside from Chill ins and outs for this week feel a bit like shuffling deck chairs. Thought Wally would come in before Hannan but I suppose we need to justify that acquisition. If we brought him in we're keen on him so can't see him being changed out for Wally.

Outs: Schache, Cordy
Ins: Chilli, Lewy

Agree with this. Give the likes of West, Hannan etc some continuity.

[Grantysghost]

When we lose, it’s usually in the same way every time. Midfield rolls over and we get beaten in the air in defence. It’s the blueprint.

The Eagles game was similar earlier this season, thought they had us most of that game.

[Mantis]

Agree with this. Give the likes of West, Hannan etc some continuity.

I'd like to see Khamis in for Crozier. I think Crozier was lucky to come in after missing a big chunk of the pre-season and I don't think he's offering us much at present.

Would also like to see McNeil in for Scott.

[comrade]

I'd like to see Khamis in for Crozier. I think Crozier was lucky to come in after missing a big chunk of the pre-season and I don't think he's offering us much at present.

Would also like to see McNeil in for Scott.

I didn’t mind Scott’s game, but agree McNeil should come back in. I’d be replacing JJ though.

Can definitely make a case for Khamis over Crozier, though I reckon Croz is a bonafide Bevo favourite and won’t be dropped.

[Mantis]

I didn’t mind Scott’s game, but agree McNeil should come back in. I’d be replacing JJ though.

Can definitely make a case for Khamis over Crozier, though I reckon Croz is a bonafide Bevo favourite and won’t be dropped.

Forgot about JJ, he goes first, but think Scott might need a spell too, but a 9 day break might be enough to re-fresh him.

[Happy Days]

I'd like to see Khamis in for Crozier. I think Crozier was lucky to come in after missing a big chunk of the pre-season and I don't think he's offering us much at present.


I don’t know if I’m quite ready to go that far but I agree with you he’s gone backwards a fair way, especially with his ball use. He’s gone from a pretty good kick to a panic merchant.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I don’t know if I’m quite ready to go that far but I agree with you he’s gone backwards a fair way, especially with his ball use. He’s gone from a pretty good kick to a panic merchant.

Seems to me that this happens to many players who join our club. Has it got something to do with Bevo's philosophy of quick ball movement?

[Mantis]

I don’t know if I’m quite ready to go that far but I agree with you he’s gone backwards a fair way, especially with his ball use. He’s gone from a pretty good kick to a panic merchant.

There's a couple of ways to look at it, but for our final last year against St.Kilda last year Crozier was playing on a HFF which to me suggests he wasn't seen as being an important member of our defensive structure. With the addition of Dale I think he's slipped back further so was surprised he came straight back in when he was available this year after a lay-off through an important part of the pre-season.

Agree on his kicking.. he's very much a long kick down the line now which doesn't really suit our style of play. He's also having less effect in the air which was a great strength previously.

[Cyberdoggie]

Not really a key defender though I didn't think. Certainly wouldn't have debuted him to play specifically on Riewoldt and a pissed off Richmond. Would like to see him though, but I suspect he is more gunning for one of Crozier, Wood or Duryeas spots.

I think body size is not an accurate reflection on how he plays.

Buku like to read the play and intercept, he's very athletic and has good playmaking skills like a Crozier, Has a huge leap and is a really good pack spoiler.

I think where Cordy was out of position against his opponent, or he just wasn't athletic enough to spoil, Buku is better equipped to do so.

[jeemak]

The discussion on this forum following our first loss have been really interesting. Beveridge needs matchday tactical support, our depth sucks, Beveridge gives certain players way more leeway than others etc. 2020 vibes everywhere minus the ruck problem.

Our 6-0 start was great, but our 2nd half on Friday did have me thinking of 2020. As usual, the reality is somewhere in the middle. Like the ruck problem, the issues currently being discussed on here have been around for some time.


When we lose, it’s usually in the same way every time. Midfield rolls over and we get beaten in the air in defence. It’s the blueprint.

Isn't this actually better though? I'd be more concerned if we were losing in different ways all the time.

Our personnel are our personnel, unfortunately, and I guess after we've tried to remedy the ruck situation we are now left with the vulnerability in defence which we have tried to remedy and will hopefully be a focus at the trade table this year.

Every team knows how to beat every other team pretty much, and it was to the Tiger's credit that their personnel could execute their plans and play to their strengths at the time (which is the difference between knowing what to do and actually doing it whilst not losing your own brand/ identity in the process). We didn't cope, reverted to panicked kicking and eased up in the midfield at critical times. Not sure how many moves a coach would/ could make in this day and age to fix that and this is the thing with systems based footy.

Bevo himself has said he wants quarters to go for longer because it enables more time to adjust and get changes he has in mind executed on the field. I think the reality is that in-quarter adjustments that make a material difference are much harder to make than they used to be, which is probably why many of us are concerned with our on-field leadership lacking at times.

[comrade]

Isn't this actually better though? I'd be more concerned if we were losing in different ways all the time.

Our personnel are our personnel, unfortunately, and I guess after we've tried to remedy the ruck situation we are now left with the vulnerability in defence which we have tried to remedy and will hopefully be a focus at the trade table this year.

Every team knows how to beat every other team pretty much, and it was to the Tiger's credit that their personnel could execute their plans and play to their strengths at the time (which is the difference between knowing what to do and actually doing it whilst not losing your own brand/ identity in the process). We didn't cope, reverted to panicked kicking and eased up in the midfield at critical times. Not sure how many moves a coach would/ could make in this day and age to fix that and this is the thing with systems based footy.

Bevo himself has said he wants quarters to go for longer because it enables more time to adjust and get changes he has in mind executed on the field. I think the reality is that in-quarter adjustments that make a material difference are much harder to make than they used to be, which is probably why many of us are concerned with our on-field leadership lacking at times.

Yeah, I’m not knocking Bevo when I say there is a clear blueprint. We may have gotten closer or stayed in the game more if we’d made some changes like Schache on Balta or Zaine on Lynch, but the collective effort across the ground and in particular the mid group was what sunk us. I am concerned that at this point our only plan seems to be dominate the midfield and effectively play keepings off the opposition forward line. Not sure how that stacks up against the good sides and is very dependent on our mids being totally on.

[Hotdog60]

The AFL cut down the time runners are on the field to so if you don't have guidance from senior players it would be hard to stop the train once it gets rolling.

[jeemak]

Yeah, I’m not knocking Bevo when I say there is a clear blueprint. We may have gotten closer or stayed in the game more if we’d made some changes like Schache on Balta or Zaine on Lynch, but the collective effort across the ground and in particular the mid group was what sunk us. I am concerned that at this point our only plan seems to be dominate the midfield and effectively play keepings off the opposition forward line. Not sure how that stacks up against the good sides and is very dependent on our mids being totally on.

I didn't think you were having a crack at Bevo and I think he can probably be a little bit too faithful to his players and a little bit stubborn at times as well.

Agree with you on the defencive side of things, but as for the offencive side it's probably a balance between playing to our forward structure versus trying to exploit more favourable match ups.

As for the game plan I think what you've identified is our one wood, and it's incredibly frustrating when we double down on it when the game conditions call for a moderation of it which is what we see sometimes. Again I guess that has to come down to on-field leadership but it's something that's concerned me over time and did again on Friday.

[Grantysghost]

As for the game plan I think what you've identified is our one wood, and it's incredibly frustrating when we double down on it when the game conditions call for a moderation of it

Perfect scenario for me, and maybe I'm dreaming but when you're copping a hammering like 15-0 inside 50s, a leader, let's say Marcus takes himself into the defence, calls for a pass, takes the mark and gestures for the team to go into a tempo game phase for a period.

It disrupts the opposition and gets the game back into a phase which you control.

I totally get it's not as easy as it sounds but that's the perfect world scenario I'm thinking of.

I've seen it time again with a very good Swans side. The likes of Parker, Kennedy are great at it.

[comrade]

Perfect scenario for me, and maybe I'm dreaming but when you're copping a hammering like 15-0 inside 50s, a leader, let's say Marcus takes himself into the defence, calls for a pass, takes the mark and gestures for the team to go into a tempo game phase for a period.

It disrupts the opposition and gets the game back into a phase which you control.

I totally get it's not as easy as it sounds but that's the perfect world scenario I'm thinking of.

I've seen it time again with a very good Swans side. The likes of Parker, Kennedy are great at it.

We can only hope we take a heap out of that loss that holds us in good stead for future games.

[jeemak]

It seemed we were stuck in a perpetual loop of kicking the ball to them, being forced deeper and deeper, and finally cracking under pressure.

What you're suggesting makes sense, providing we can get hands on the ball with the odd intercept mark and spread the field by creating a contest and spilling the ball over the line on the outlet kick which in each instance was something we rarely did.

[comrade]

It seemed we were stuck in a perpetual loop of kicking the ball to them, being forced deeper and deeper, and finally cracking under pressure.

What you're suggesting makes sense, providing we can get hands on the ball with the odd intercept mark and spread the field by creating a contest and spilling the ball over the line on the outlet kick which in each instance was something we rarely did.

Our lack of height in defence was completely exposed in that type of game. Gardiner can’t get back quick enough, and I’m hoping Khamis gets a go very soon.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

There's a couple of ways to look at it, but for our final last year against St.Kilda last year Crozier was playing on a HFF which to me suggests he wasn't seen as being an important member of our defensive structure. With the addition of Dale I think he's slipped back further so was surprised he came straight back in when he was available this year after a lay-off through an important part of the pre-season.

Agree on his kicking.. he's very much a long kick down the line now which doesn't really suit our style of play. He's also having less effect in the air which was a great strength previously.

Agree with this. I haven't 'seen it' with Crozier for a while.

Williams has been a big out. Start of the year we had Williams/Dale/Caleb as creative ball users coming out of the back half. Gardiner played within his limitations and would typically give the ball up to one of these 3.

The last couple of weeks our movement out of the back half has been slow and predictable, but why? Well Cordy/Keath/Crozier all hold up the ball far too long, retreat and rarely take the risky kick (or when they do, cough it up). Though Caleb and Dale played well v Richmond, too often our poor ball users were the ones trying to get the ball out in the second half.

We really need Williams back (takes space, creates space, takes the dangerous kick and shares this with Dale / Daniel) and Gardiner to a lesser degree (quicker than Crozier and Cordy to release the ball, doesn't do things he shouldn't/can't).

[Scraggers]

The injury list time-periods look a lot better this week.

Injury list

Tim English (concussion) test
Laitham Vandermeer (back) test
Bailey Williams (collarbone) 1 week
Ryan Gardner (shoulder) 1-2 weeks
Toby McLean (knee) 3-4 weeks
Ed Richards (ankle) 3-5 weeks
Lin Jong (hamstring) 10-12 weeks
Josh Dunkley (shoulder) 12-16 weeks

With both Bailey Williams and Gardner (hopefully) in the mix for the game against Port Adelaide

[Ozza]

Cordy won't get dropped - based on Bevo's presser - and certainly not for Lewis Young.

Outs: Schache, Crozier, Scott, JJ
Ins: English, Khamis, Vandemeer, McNeil

Willing to give West one more.

[Mantis]

Cordy won't get dropped - based on Bevo's presser - and certainly not for Lewis Young.



In Bevo's eyes what do we get from Cordy that we don't get from Young?

[Ozza]

In Bevo's eyes what do we get from Cordy that we don't get from Young?

Competitiveness.

[Mantis]

Competitiveness.

Cordy doesn't have the tools to compete as he's being asked to... he tries, but he just can't.

And then there's the rest of his game which isn't adequate to play at this level.

[FrediKanoute]

Our lack of height in defence was completely exposed in that type of game. Gardiner can’t get back quick enough, and I’m hoping Khamis gets a go very soon.

I don't. From what I have seen of Khamis in the VFL I am concerned at how exposed he will be at AFL level. For all Khamis' athletic ability (and he has a lot), he cannot read the play. Hence he is always starting out of position and relying on his physical abilities to make the contest. That isn't going to work or work as often at AFL level. The other point is that Khamis to me is a tall HBF not a key position back. Lynch would have monstered him on the weekend.

I'm not saying he can't get there, but he is a litle way off.

[comrade]

I don't. From what I have seen of Khamis in the VFL I am concerned at how exposed he will be at AFL level. For all Khamis' athletic ability (and he has a lot), he cannot read the play. Hence he is always starting out of position and relying on his physical abilities to make the contest. That isn't going to work or work as often at AFL level. The other point is that Khamis to me is a tall HBF not a key position back. Lynch would have monstered him on the weekend.

I'm not saying he can't get there, but he is a litle way off.

His reading of the play is fine, hence taking intercept marks for fun. And I don't want him playing key defence, I see him replacing the likes of Crozier or Wood.

[comrade]

Cordy doesn't have the tools to compete as he's being asked to... he tries, but he just can't.

And then there's the rest of his game which isn't adequate to play at this level.

He wasn't exactly competitive when Lynch was taking about 5 marks in the first 10 minutes. And that was when the Tigers weren't all over us.

[FrediKanoute]

His reading of the play is fine, hence taking intercept marks for fun. And I don't want him playing key defence, I see him replacing the likes of Crozier or Wood.

Agree. That is his spot

[comrade]

Agree. That is his spot

He plays taller than those 2 which I feel we need. All the good sides have at least 2-3 guys that can play tall in defence, we had 1 on Friday (2 if you count Cordy, which I don't). Even with Gardner back, I still feel we need an extra marking option. Might be crazy, but I'd even consider Keath, Gardner and Young all playing together if it meant getting more height and intercept marking in the back half. We're just way too short.

[Rocco Jones]

When it comes to Cordy vs Young, some points:
- Young has a way bigger upside and ability to actually 'play tall'
- Perception from Bevo/reality that Young isn't mentally up to the level. I heard someone on here compare him to Geoff Hayward from The Club, I have thought the same. How much of his confidence issues come from him and/or Bevo not giving him a sustained time in the team is the big one here.
- I think it becomes a safe 3/10 option with Zaine vs 1-7/10 range with Young. Young and Schache are two guys who can just have a big crisis of confidence in game (or just not get near it).

I think Zaine's ceiling is very low and what he offers simply isn't enough to not take the punt on Young.

[Hotdog60]

Isn't funny how 12 months ago we couldn't wait to see the last of Gardner and now fast forward those twelve months and we can't wait for him to come back in. :)

[Rocco Jones]

Isn't funny how 12 months ago we couldn't wait to see the last of Gardner and now fast forward those twelve months and we can't wait for him to come back in. :)

Ha, yeah I have seen a few say this and it's very true.

I think it speaks to our lack of quality down back than his ability but nonetheless true.

[G-Mo77]

Isn't funny how 12 months ago we couldn't wait to see the last of Gardner and now fast forward those twelve months and we can't wait for him to come back in. :)

Not really. While he has improved it would have been the same result if he were playing instead of Cordy Friday if not worse. Our best option at FB/CHB IMO is Young and for some reason gets 1/10 of the chances Gardner has had. I don't get to see all behind closed doors but from my POV I really don't get it?

[Mantis]

Not really. While he has improved it would have been the same result if he were playing instead of Cordy Friday if not worse. Our best option at FB/CHB IMO is Young and for some reason gets 1/10 of the chances Gardner has had. I don't get to see all behind closed doors but from my POV I really don't get it?

Agree with this.

I don't see a highly competent AFL defender in Gardner yet. Sure he has improved (from a low base), but he isn't great 1 on 1 and doesn't back himself in the air to take a grab when he has the opportunity to... which is vital in the modern game.

I too have NFI why he has been favored so heavily to Young.

[Rocco Jones]

Agree with this.

I don't see a highly competent AFL defender in Gardner yet. Sure he has improved (from a low base), but he isn't great 1 on 1 and doesn't back himself in the air to take a grab when he has the opportunity to... which is vital in the modern game.

I too have NFI why he has been favored so heavily to Young.

I think those paying attention all know 'why' but it's about whether it is right (I am with you, don't get me wrong).

It seems that Bevo sees Young as being flakey/uncompetitive/confidence issues. He proves that a fair bit but it clearly might be a self-fulfilling prophecy. Being dropped for things relating to self belief...

I see Gardner as an upgrade on Cordy. Cordy a 'safe' 3/10, Gardner a safe 5/10 and Young anything 2-7/10.

At the very least I see playing Cordy as very unambitious.

[Mantis]

I think those paying attention all know 'why' but it's about whether it is right (I am with you, don't get me wrong).

It seems that Bevo sees Young as being flakey/uncompetitive/confidence issues. He proves that a fair bit but it clearly might be a self-fulfilling prophecy. Being dropped for things relating to self belief...

I see Gardner as an upgrade on Cordy. Cordy a 'safe' 3/10, Gardner a safe 5/10 and Young anything 2-7/10.

At the very least I see playing Cordy as very unambitious.

Hey Bevo, how about you give Lewis a bit of confidence and back him in rather than drop him at the first *!*!*!*!ing opportunity... having re-watched the GC game to see what Young did wrong I'm struggling to see the issue. He got caught out of position a couple of times when GC sliced through the middle of the ground, but Cordy did this on repeat on Friday night.. and gave nothing offensively.

And is Gardner's rating on effort or output?

[DOG GOD]

It’s unfortunate our best backman is playing FF.

Keath should be lapping it up like Lever, but is forced to play more as a FB/CHB due to our lack of options. Cordy is almost done in 2021 version of AFL. Young won’t be given a good run at it, and the guy Bevo loves for whatever reason is out injured (and nothing more than a pretty good VFL type).

We just need to admit that we haven’t got the KPD cattle that will allow us to go with the top teams. It’s funny, whenever we talk about matchups, it’s always the FF of the opposition (Lynch, McKay, Dixon, Hawkins, King) that gets talked about, coz it’s blatantly obvious, it’s our Achilles heel. A FB is seriously required if Naughton is going to remain a fwd.

[Rocco Jones]

Hey Bevo, how about you give Lewis a bit of confidence and back him in rather than drop him at the first *!*!*!*!ing opportunity... having re-watched the GC game to see what Young did wrong I'm struggling to see the issue. He got caught out of position a couple of times when GC sliced through the middle of the ground, but Cordy did this on repeat on Friday night.. and gave nothing offensively.

And is Gardner's rating on effort or output?

Gardner's effort is a 10. I think he can do a bit with the team defence, get the fist in at a decent height. I'm being kind to him but he offers 'something'. With Zaine, I am totally with you. Other than he will fly the flag etc, I don't get his currency.

With Young, we either have to play him for a string of games (unless absolutely and clearly terrible. He was not this v Suns) just let him play in VFL or trade him.

Thing with the Suns dropping too, he didn't even get one whole game to be 'poor' in defence. He was moved into the ruck. His margin for error with Bevo is miniscule.

[jeemak]

It might have something to do with the ground Gardner can cover and how quickly he can cover it versus what Young can.

[Hotdog60]

Gardner spends a lot of TOG so this helps with the limited rotations. He didn't come off the ground in the Eagles game giving 100% in a tough game.
Cordy against the Giants spent the whole game 100% TOG so I think this helps Bevo keep his mid field running.

So it may be more about quantity rather than quality so there is more at play with the midfield and giving them time to run out the game and not have someone else's bum on the pine.

[MrMahatma]

Gardner spends a lot of TOG so this helps with the limited rotations. He didn't come off the ground in the Eagles game giving 100% in a tough game.
Cordy against the Giants spent the whole game 100% TOG so I think this helps Bevo keep his mid field running.

So it may be more about quantity rather than quality so there is more at play with the midfield and giving them time to run out the game and not have someone else's bum on the pine.

So it’s Young’s tank that is the issue?

[soupman]

I think we are looking for a key defender that fits well positionally into our zone defence/press, and is disciplined and competitive in contests.

Gardner is definitely both those things, plays his role well in a system, clearly has a great attitude and I'm also pretty sure the club rates his kicking (yes I remember his absolute howlers early on).

Cordy I think is pretty good at being in the right place, is competitive in contests (although probably lacks the ability to truly have an impact) and has the trust from the MC that his attitude and discipline is good.

Young I suspect doesn't play that positional game as well as we'd like, and also his competitiveness can appear inconsistent. I also think we don't rate his disposal, in that as MJP has pointed out before he shies away from taking the riskier options we want our players to take. Cordy does it (loves an inboard kick on his left), Gardner obviously does.

Young has attributes the others don't have (much better in the air mainly) but I don't think that is what we want first and foremost from our FB and I reckon ability to stick to the gameplan is rated number one on our board and Young comes across as the least capable of doing that of the three.

Fwiw I very much agree with everyone else that I would like to see him given a run of games in Gardners absence if the other option is just stick Zaine back there, but Young always comes across to me like a 15 year old kid playing footy with his mates where he relies more on raw ability than playing his role. If thats the same pov the coaches have then no wonder he can't get a game.

[Vred]

I'd be playing Young way more in seniors, he needs a solid run at it like Gardner, hell I'd like to play Keith/Gardner/Young all in the same backline, with Williams, Dale and Duryea, move Daniel up forward so he can do his neat-little kicks into the forward 50 as opposed to off halfback.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Might be some truth to that soup (and others above), but can you imagine if Young played a game where his opponent took 12 marks? He'd probably be sent home to SA without pay.

Young's best games - which include v Brisbane the week prior - are so far and above what Cordy has ever produced at the level.

I agree with the sentiment on Gardiner and can 'see' why he's picked. Quick, disciplined, shown improvement etc. It's still debatable he's AFL quality long term.

When Cordy's attributes are "he gives effort / he knows the gameplan / he can fly the flag" but has been statistically one of the worst 1-v-1 defenders in the league for some time, I don't get it. If he plays v Carlton I'm almost approaching Terry Wallet levels...

RJ's rating system is pretty much spot on. I'd almost rather play JJ as a key defender, at least *if* he brought the ball to ground, he might be able to run it out/hurt on the rebound.*

* Not serious, but you get my point.

[merantau]

When it comes to Cordy vs Young, some points:
- Young has a way bigger upside and ability to actually 'play tall'
- Perception from Bevo/reality that Young isn't mentally up to the level. I heard someone on here compare him to Geoff Hayward from The Club, I have thought the same. How much of his confidence issues come from him and/or Bevo not giving him a sustained time in the team is the big one here.
- I think it becomes a safe 3/10 option with Zaine vs 1-7/10 range with Young. Young and Schache are two guys who can just have a big crisis of confidence in game (or just not get near it).

I think Zaine's ceiling is very low and what he offers simply isn't enough to not take the punt on Young.

Zaine has not improved in four years. He lacks the tools to improve. He is too small to compete with the bigger guys and too slow to compete with smaller but more agile players. He tackles well, he spoils well. He doesn't intercept mark. He doesn't run with the ball. When he has the ball he invariably opts for the short kick sideways or at 45 degrees and generally executes this well.

I think Young has a lot more upside and needs to be given a decent chance to prove it. He is a more attacking player. He has pace and marks well. We are yet to see the best of him because he has been ignoredfor three years. We have seen the best of Zaine I think. 2021 is decision time for both players.

I totally agree with your assessment. It's time to bite the bullet and go with Lewis Young.

[Mantis]

I think we are looking for a key defender that fits well positionally into our zone defence/press, and is disciplined and competitive in contests.

Gardner is definitely both those things, plays his role well in a system, clearly has a great attitude and I'm also pretty sure the club rates his kicking (yes I remember his absolute howlers early on).

Cordy I think is pretty good at being in the right place, is competitive in contests (although probably lacks the ability to truly have an impact) and has the trust from the MC that his attitude and discipline is good.

Young I suspect doesn't play that positional game as well as we'd like, and also his competitiveness can appear inconsistent. I also think we don't rate his disposal, in that as MJP has pointed out before he shies away from taking the riskier options we want our players to take. Cordy does it (loves an inboard kick on his left), Gardner obviously does.

Young has attributes the others don't have (much better in the air mainly) but I don't think that is what we want first and foremost from our FB and I reckon ability to stick to the gameplan is rated number one on our board and Young comes across as the least capable of doing that of the three.

Fwiw I very much agree with everyone else that I would like to see him given a run of games in Gardners absence if the other option is just stick Zaine back there, but Young always comes across to me like a 15 year old kid playing footy with his mates where he relies more on raw ability than playing his role. If thats the same pov the coaches have then no wonder he can't get a game.

That all makes sense, but a couple of queries:

1/ If the ability to take on the ''risky'' kick is an important asset, and perhaps one that defines who plays for our key defenders why isn't it the same for our medium sized defenders, mainly Crozier & Wood? Their distribution by foot is poor to say the least and the strength they did have, intercept marking has fallen away too.

2/ Is our game-plan suited to play to the strength our developing key defenders? We defend super high and against good teams we get caught out the back. Should we have our key defenders defend back shoulder?

3/ Why play Young at all if your points are the case? He is what he is, a raw developing key defender who gets lost on occasion, but he has some athletic & ball winning traits that we seriously lack and our development of his game has been extremely poor. Getting dropped after a 10 goal win was just plain dumb given we kept the opposing side (who are actually a decent team) to ''0'' goals for a half, it really should've been a time to pump up Young and give him some confidence that he's on the right path... but instead we dump him for a player who has been tried & tested in the same role and has failed to nail the spot down, with his only advantage over him is that he has a dip... spare me.

[soupman]

That all makes sense, but a couple of queries:

1/ If the ability to take on the ''risky'' kick is an important asset, and perhaps one that defines who plays for our key defenders why isn't it the same for our medium sized defenders, mainly Crozier & Wood? Their distribution by foot is poor to say the least and the strength they did have, intercept marking has fallen away too.


I don't think I said that we expect Young to do the risky kick. Nor Wood, nor Crozier. But we do expect them to follow certain patterns. Cordy frequently when he gets the ball hits the kick 25m inboard. Gardner similarly often looks to switch the ball quickly. Both are maybe slightly risky kicks at times but are clearly a directive to open up the ground and are both pretty achievable moves. Wood and Crozier similarly are not given the license to create like Daniel, Dale or Williams but i am confident they follow the patterns dictated by the gameplan. Young has at times tended to either hold onto the ball too long and back himself into one of those "retain possession backwards or kick the ball long down the line" corners, or alternatively he almost panic plays on and tends to just pop it long. I suspect he is instructed to look for certain passes from certain spots and he doesn't naturally do them.



2/ Is our game-plan suited to play to the strength our developing key defenders? We defend super high and against good teams we get caught out the back. Should we have our key defenders defend back shoulder?


Our gameplan is designed to hide the weaknesses of our defenders. We aren't great one on one, especially deep, so we aim to press up and prevent the ball getting in that situation as much as possible. By doing so we concede goals out the back or have our defenders exposed to situations where we are outnumbered or outmatched, but i suspect we think by playing the press we expose them to maybe 10 situations a game where we probably almost definitely concede instead of numerous more where we are slightly better setup defensively but sheer weight of numbers dictates we will concede more.

The biggest issue is that this relies on our midfield limiting supply when we can't set up, especially from centre bounces. Once we are on the back foot and stuck deep in defence thats when we are in trouble.



3/ Why play Young at all if your points are the case? He is what he is, a raw developing key defender who gets lost on occasion, but he has some athletic & ball winning traits that we seriously lack and our development of his game has been extremely poor. Getting dropped after a 10 goal win was just plain dumb given we kept the opposing side (who are actually a decent team) to ''0'' goals for a half, it really should've been a time to pump up Young and give him some confidence that he's on the right path... but instead we dump him for a player who has been tried & tested in the same role and has failed to nail the spot down, with his only advantage over him is that he has a dip... spare me.

I don't disagree. I'm not advocating for Cordy over Young. I'm just trying to explain why I think the MC don't like him. They know our defenders are limited, so want to pick one who at least plays the team structures right and follows the gameplan well. I suspect they don't think Young does that very well, which mitigates the advantages his raw talent has over someone like Gardner. He only got two games but maybe in those games he demonstrated that it wasn't a confidence issue, but more an inability to do what is asked of him. I can absolutely see why he would be given nearly no chances if when he does he doesn't do what is asked.

[Mantis]

I think it's a crucial week to get our structure in better order and look forward to what our team might look like at the back end of the year.

We have really struggled to find someone to play on the wing given Hunter's shift forward so I'd like to see Butler who is being groomed in that role given the opportunity to develop.

Lots on the bench who deserve one more go, but hard to drop a number of these after just one game against the competition's benchmark team.... as I drop Schache after one game, but realistically he was poor and only filling in for Tim.

In: English, Young, Khamis, Butler, McNeil

Out: Schache, Cordy, Crozier, JJ, Scott

---------------------

B: Wood, Keath, Khamis
HB: Dale, Young, Daniel
C: Butler, Macrae, Smith
HF: Hunter, Naughton, Treloar
F: English, Bruce, McNeil
R: Martin, Bontempelli, Liberatore
Int: Duryea, Lipinski, West, Hannan

Emerg: VDM (Sub), Wallis, Garcia, JUH

[comrade]

I think it's a crucial week to get our structure in better order and look forward to what our team might look like at the back end of the year.

We have really struggled to find someone to play on the wing given Hunter's shift forward so I'd like to see Butler who is being groomed in that role given the opportunity to develop.

Lots on the bench who deserve one more go, but hard to drop a number of these after just one game against the competition's benchmark team.... as I drop Schache after one game, but realistically he was poor and only filling in for Tim.

In: English, Young, Khamis, Butler, McNeil

Out: Schache, Cordy, Crozier, JJ, Scott

---------------------

B: Wood, Keath, Khamis
HB: Dale, Young, Daniel
C: Butler, Macrae, Smith
HF: Hunter, Naughton, Treloar
F: English, Bruce, McNeil
R: Martin, Bontempelli, Liberatore
Int: Duryea, Lipinski, West, Hannan

Emerg: VDM (Sub), Wallis, Garcia, JUH

That defence looks a lot more capable in the air. I like that 22 a lot.

[1eyedog]

We’ve gotta play Lewis Young this week. His form up and downs are pretty akin to Cordy’s but his ceiling is so much higher, and he really was excellent in the 2s.

Agreed but I'm really concerned about the yo yo-ing of Lewy. We know Schache came in for Chilli so Schache will go out but if we bring Lewy in it will likely mean that Zaine goes out, after two games. I mean, c'mon guys make a decision on this position!

It's like, 'Lewy, we brought you in and you played really well, then you had an average game so we dropped you, so we brought Zaine in who had two average games so we dropped him, so we'll bring you back in Lewy but if you have an average game we'll drop you and we'll likely bring Zaine back in'. That's the trend. It's a joke. As many here have asked why can't we just give him a block of games in order to provide him with the best chance of finding some consistency? We did this for Gardner and surprise! He slowly became a better player. That said, I'll laugh hysterically if we change out Zaine for Lewy this week because the MC will acknowledge they made the wrong decision (again), and we'll be back where we started with Lewy i.e. the Brisbane game. Does my head in. As it stands if he comes in he's potentially a deer in the headlights against McKay. I'd feel much better about this if we'd just played him each week from when he was selected for the Brisvegas game.

It will be interesting to see if one of Westy or Hannan drop out this week (unless its for a returning VDM then fine), but for Wally? If this happens it will tell me that the MC really do draw player 20-22 out of a hat. How can we keep making so many wrong decisions re. selection? Ultimately I'm tired of seeing us get minced up by key forwards. We really should know better and I fear that if we don't change out Zaine we are going to struggle over the next two games. I've lost confidence in the ability of our mids to defend well enough across an entire game, and with Chilli playing forward (i.e. unable to help our defenders), I'm getting really nervous about Zaine playing on one of Casboult or McKay this week and one of Dixon or Marshall the following week.

[Jam Donuts]

Agree with this.

I don't see a highly competent AFL defender in Gardner yet. Sure he has improved (from a low base), but he isn't great 1 on 1 and doesn't back himself in the air to take a grab when he has the opportunity to... which is vital in the modern game.

I too have NFI why he has been favored so heavily to Young.

In my observations Young is far too inconsistent and i fail to see the huge up-side in him that others can. Gardner whilst not a world beater is improving nearly every game. It is not my style to criticise any of our players too heavily, but to be fair Young has a long way to go, despite the bleatings on here about why he is not getting played, I would give Buku a run before Young gets another chance, but like all comments on here it is just my opinion, and opinions are as we know, like arseholes.........Every one has got one.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

The reality is that no matter who plays KPD between Young, Cordy, Schache, Bruce, Gardner etc, we are just papering over the enormous hole we have at that position. The only way to fix the problem is through the trade period this year. Whoever plays there this season won't be able to stop the issues we saw on Friday. Cordy wasn't up to it, but neither are the others. I think Gardner is an upgrade on Cordy but even then the Tigers still win. Unfortunately, it's up to our mids to not expose our weak defence.

[westbulldog]

Give Young some continuity, a decent run at it, say 4-5 games, and then drop the guillotine if necessary. He has more natural ability then Cordy or Gardner. Perhaps attitude is the issue. Cordy is cooked as a KPD and Gardner is very inexperienced imo. Khamis should come in too.

[1eyedog]

[/B] In my observations Young is far too inconsistent and i fail to see the huge up-side in him that others can. Gardner whilst not a world beater is improving nearly every game. It is not my style to criticise any of our players too heavily, but to be fair Young has a long way to go, despite the bleatings on here about why he is not getting played, I would give Buku a run before Young gets another chance, but like all comments on here it is just my opinion, and opinions are as we know, like arseholes.........Every one has got one.

Playing Devil's advocate have we really provided Young with the same opportunities i.e. a solid block of games to give him a chance to improve his game at the top level, like we have to Gardner? I'm not saying Young is the answer but I'd like to ask the question of him at least. I've seen Young play pretty bad but I've also seen him play pretty good at AFL level. Why not give him an opportunity to close that gap a bit?

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Khamis over Crozier would be a great call.

Hard to see us doing it though, internally Crozier is rated highly.

[Scraggers]

I think it's a crucial week to get our structure in better order and look forward to what our team might look like at the back end of the year.

We have really struggled to find someone to play on the wing given Hunter's shift forward so I'd like to see Butler who is being groomed in that role given the opportunity to develop.

Lots on the bench who deserve one more go, but hard to drop a number of these after just one game against the competition's benchmark team.... as I drop Schache after one game, but realistically he was poor and only filling in for Tim.

In: English, Young, Khamis, Butler, McNeil

Out: Schache, Cordy, Crozier, JJ, Scott

---------------------

B: Wood, Keath, Khamis
HB: Dale, Young, Daniel
C: Butler, Macrae, Smith
HF: Hunter, Naughton, Treloar
F: English, Bruce, McNeil
R: Martin, Bontempelli, Liberatore
Int: Duryea, Lipinski, West, Hannan

Emerg: VDM (Sub), Wallis, Garcia, JUH

Not having a go, just curious for your perspective ... what do you think Butler brings that Crozier doesn't? I agree with your other changes, just not sure on the Butler v Crozier (I realise they play different roles). I would give Crozier another couple of games if only for his spoiling ability.

[Grantysghost]

In : English, Weightman, McNeil, Khamis
Out : Schache, Scott (looked sore late), JJ, Cordy

If LVM is OK and passes a test I'd probably have him instead of Weightman. But I've liked Weightman's VFL form. Has a bit of similarity to Jamie Eilliot.
Wouldn't be upset if Garcia got a crack either but can't see a spot for him.

[comrade]

In : English, Weightman, McNeil, Khamis
Out : Schache, Scott (looked sore late), JJ, Cordy

If LVM is OK and passes a test I'd probably have him instead of Weightman. But I've liked Weightman's VFL form. Has a bit of similarity to Jamie Eilliot.
Wouldn't be upset if Garcia got a crack either but can't see a spot for him.

Good luck to Naughts taking a grab with Cody buzzing around :D

[Mantis]

Not having a go, just curious for your perspective ... what do you think Butler brings that Crozier doesn't? I agree with your other changes, just not sure on the Butler v Crozier (I realise they play different roles). I would give Crozier another couple of games if only for his spoiling ability.

As mentioned (and you did too) I have them in different roles. Khamis is coming in for Crozier to assist in defence and to provide a bit more height & athleticism and Butler to come in to play as a wingman in place of Scott or JJ as we aren't getting much from this position at present.

[SquirrelGrip]

As mentioned (and you did too) I have them in different roles. Khamis is coming in for Crozier to assist in defence and to provide a bit more height & athleticism and Butler to come in to play as a wingman in place of Scott or JJ as we aren't getting much from this position at present.

Could Crozier become the wingman?

[Scraggers]

As mentioned (and you did too) I have them in different roles. Khamis is coming in for Crozier to assist in defence and to provide a bit more height & athleticism and Butler to come in to play as a wingman in place of Scott or JJ as we aren't getting much from this position at present.

Cheers Mantis ... Does Butler have the wheels/stamina to play wing all day?

[Mantis]

Could Crozier become the wingman?

Let's find out... at VFL level first.

Given the development of Williams, Dale & Daniel we have plenty of depth on the back flanks and the squeeze is on for spots. We can't keep trying to cram them all in and need more balance in the team.

Bevo mentioned the development of Butler on the wing in a recent post match press conference (I think after the GWS game) so his name must be firmly in his mind... time to give him a crack as we aren't using this position well at present.


Cheers Mantis ... Does Butler have the wheels/stamina to play wing all day?

Only one way to find out.

I'm not sure he does, but his form is solid and it's a role we're developing him for so lets see how he goes.

[ReLoad]

What’s the intel on Williams? How far away is he?

I feel like he’s our missing link.

[Scraggers]

What’s the intel on Williams? How far away is he?

I feel like he’s our missing link.

You probably haven't had the opportunity to go back and check, but i posted earlier that he's a probable in for the Port game in Round 9.

[kruder]

We discussed Cordy prior to last week, there was nothing surprising about the perfromace It is what you would expect from him. I still think we left the leading lanes far too open for Lynch, both Crozier and Duryea didn't help out enough and it's also the downside of having Caleb in an undersized defence.

I just can't see the match committee going back to Young so quickly after dropping him, I think it's Cordy until Gardiner is back.

[Mofra]

We discussed Cordy prior to last week, there was nothing surprising about the perfromace It is what you would expect from him. I still think we left the leading lanes far too open for Lynch, both Crozier and Duryea didn't help out enough and it's also the downside of having Caleb in an undersized defence.

I just can't see the match committee going back to Young so quickly after dropping him, I think it's Cordy until Gardiner is back.
Young will have to perform at VFL level first before getting a game.
JJ could be in a spot of bother if VDM is available

[Grantysghost]

Young will have to perform at VFL level first before getting a game.
JJ could be in a spot of bother if VDM is available

He didn't inspire against a very poor Bullants side.

I'm not seeing where the love is coming from apart from the fact he's has the measurable physical attributes desirable for a position we are screaming out for.

On the weekend he tried to hit a 30 metre pass and nearly kicked it into Mary St! (to be fair it was windy).

He was ok early in that game in the air, but wasn't setting the world on fire.

Surely. Surely, everyone who has any emotional attachment to the dogs whether it be coaches, staff or supporters want like hell for the guy we recruited to be a full back to realise his potential.
Must be incredibly frustrating for everyone concerned that so far he hasn't been able to consistently deliver off field, on field and in all phases of the game.

As for consistency and who gets a run of games, it is possible that we as fans don't see the full picture as to what ticks the boxes for the MC.

I really want him to be our guy to take the opposition behemoth but at this point I'd rather drag JT away from Barooga.

[comrade]

Ryan Gardner sitting back right now, smiling, thinking of all the s*** he copped while we desperately await his return.

[Grantysghost]

Ryan Gardner sitting back right now, smiling, thinking of all the s*** he copped while we desperately await his return.

It wasn't me :cool:!

[MrMahatma]

I don't think I said that we expect Young to do the risky kick. Nor Wood, nor Crozier. But we do expect them to follow certain patterns. Cordy frequently when he gets the ball hits the kick 25m inboard. Gardner similarly often looks to switch the ball quickly. Both are maybe slightly risky kicks at times but are clearly a directive to open up the ground and are both pretty achievable moves. Wood and Crozier similarly are not given the license to create like Daniel, Dale or Williams but i am confident they follow the patterns dictated by the gameplan. Young has at times tended to either hold onto the ball too long and back himself into one of those "retain possession backwards or kick the ball long down the line" corners, or alternatively he almost panic plays on and tends to just pop it long. I suspect he is instructed to look for certain passes from certain spots and he doesn't naturally do them.



Our gameplan is designed to hide the weaknesses of our defenders. We aren't great one on one, especially deep, so we aim to press up and prevent the ball getting in that situation as much as possible. By doing so we concede goals out the back or have our defenders exposed to situations where we are outnumbered or outmatched, but i suspect we think by playing the press we expose them to maybe 10 situations a game where we probably almost definitely concede instead of numerous more where we are slightly better setup defensively but sheer weight of numbers dictates we will concede more.

The biggest issue is that this relies on our midfield limiting supply when we can't set up, especially from centre bounces. Once we are on the back foot and stuck deep in defence thats when we are in trouble.



I don't disagree. I'm not advocating for Cordy over Young. I'm just trying to explain why I think the MC don't like him. They know our defenders are limited, so want to pick one who at least plays the team structures right and follows the gameplan well. I suspect they don't think Young does that very well, which mitigates the advantages his raw talent has over someone like Gardner. He only got two games but maybe in those games he demonstrated that it wasn't a confidence issue, but more an inability to do what is asked of him. I can absolutely see why he would be given nearly no chances if when he does he doesn't do what is asked.

After the Lions game, Bevo mentioned in his presser that Young had “taken his chance with both hands” or something to that effect. So I doubt he went against instructions that day.

He plays one more match and then is dropped! 0 leeway given to that guy.

He’ll leave at season’s end and we’ll have egg on our face as he becomes a good player elsewhere.

[bornadog]

In : English, Weightman, McNeil, Khamis
Out : Schache, Scott (looked sore late), JJ, Cordy

If LVM is OK and passes a test I'd probably have him instead of Weightman. But I've liked Weightman's VFL form. Has a bit of similarity to Jamie Eilliot.
Wouldn't be upset if Garcia got a crack either but can't see a spot for him.

I think LVM has not being playing well the last few games. I would prefer Weightman

[Bullies]

Ryan Gardner sitting back right now, smiling, thinking of all the s*** he copped while we desperately await his return. And so he should. The last 5 games last year he finished in the top 3 for club votes and had few goals kicked on him. Same with his 2 games this year. He has excellent closing speed which is what the Match Committee like and a good spoil. People need to remember he has only played 15 games and other parts to his game (skills) will come with time. At the moment we need him to play on the top forward and nullify them. Not get 15 marks. Keath is in the team to do that down back.

[Bulldog Joe]

I think LVM has not being playing well the last few games. I would prefer Weightman

I agree with this.

Weightman was very active against the Bullants and I would forgive the goalkicking misses as it seemed very windy.

The only flaw was late in the game when he competed for a mark with JUH, although he was in position first and Jamarra should probably have just protected him.

[Grantysghost]

And so he should. The last 5 games last year he finished in the top 3 for club votes and had few goals kicked on him. Same with his 2 games this year. He has excellent closing speed which is what the Match Committee like and a good spoil. People need to remember he has only played 15 games and other parts to his game (skills) will come with time. At the moment we need him to play on the top forward and nullify them. Not get 15 marks. Keath is in the team to do that down back.

I love Ryan.

Pretty much think Keath should've copped an internal suspension for injuring him.

[I'm Not Bitter Anymore!]

It wasn't me :cool:!
Never doubted him

[Grantysghost]

I agree with this.

Weightman was very active against the Bullants and I would forgive the goalkicking misses as it seemed very windy.

The only flaw was late in the game when he competed for a mark with JUH, although he was in position first and Jamarra should probably have just protected him.

I was at the game it was a decent northerly. Most of those goals to the Northern (scoreboard) end seemed to need some local knowledge.
Agree he does fly for every mark!

[DOG GOD]

I think it's a crucial week to get our structure in better order and look forward to what our team might look like at the back end of the year.

We have really struggled to find someone to play on the wing given Hunter's shift forward so I'd like to see Butler who is being groomed in that role given the opportunity to develop.

Lots on the bench who deserve one more go, but hard to drop a number of these after just one game against the competition's benchmark team.... as I drop Schache after one game, but realistically he was poor and only filling in for Tim.

In: English, Young, Khamis, Butler, McNeil

Out: Schache, Cordy, Crozier, JJ, Scott

---------------------

B: Wood, Keath, Khamis
HB: Dale, Young, Daniel
C: Butler, Macrae, Smith
HF: Hunter, Naughton, Treloar
F: English, Bruce, McNeil
R: Martin, Bontempelli, Liberatore
Int: Duryea, Lipinski, West, Hannan

Emerg: VDM (Sub), Wallis, Garcia, JUH

I also like the look of that team Mantis.

[comrade]

I agree with this.

Weightman was very active against the Bullants and I would forgive the goalkicking misses as it seemed very windy.

The only flaw was late in the game when he competed for a mark with JUH, although he was in position first and Jamarra should probably have just protected him.

That was Marra’s mark. When you’re 5 foot 8, you don’t jump for everything in sight, especially when your gun key forward has the open lane.

[mjp]

He plays one more match and then is dropped! 0 leeway given to that guy.


I don't think it's zero leeway.

I DO think it's zero leeway with regards whatever caused him to get dropped last year - people keep telling me it's competitiveness and defensive decision making so let's go with that...

I suspect skill errors etc don't phase the coaches too much but that he's on a short leash with regards 'other stuff'.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I don't think it's zero leeway.

I DO think it's zero leeway with regards whatever caused him to get dropped last year - people keep telling me it's competitiveness and defensive decision making so let's go with that...

I suspect skill errors etc don't phase the coaches too much but that he's on a short leash with regards 'other stuff'.

Considering he and Schache have similar temperaments and short leashes it may well be some non-negotiable stuff like competitiveness and not being lazy.

[bornadog]

Considering he and Schache have similar temperaments and short leashes it may well be some non-negotiable stuff like competitiveness and not being lazy.

I agree, body language tells a lot to me. I don't know about the training stuff and what the coach expects, but when I look at for example, Bruce, he may not have all the skills, but he is always giving more than 100% in effort, and attack on the ball and looks dangerous.

I don't think you can teach this, it is just in your nature.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I agree, body language tells a lot to me. I don't know about the training stuff and what the coach expects, but when I look at for example, Bruce, he may not have all the skills, but he is always giving more than 100% in effort, and attack on the ball and looks dangerous.

I don't think you can teach this, it is just in your nature.

Young's effort to compete seems conditional. And I reckon that's one thing any coach hates...I'd say that could equally be applied to Schache as well, and goes along way probably to explaining why they've increasingly found it hard to get into the main team.

It's one thing to stuff up in execution, but another if you don't bring the required effort and desire to compete.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Young's effort to compete seems conditional. And I reckon that's one thing any coach hates...I'd say that could equally be applied to Schache as well, and goes along way probably to explaining why they've increasingly found it hard to get into the main team.

It's one thing to stuff up in execution, but another if you don't bring the required effort and desire to compete.

There's nothing that frustrates me more in a football player than one whose efforts are conditional.

Unfortunately you usually can't change this. Although one curious case would be Liam Jones. As a forward for us he would choose when and when not to chase. I don't watch enough Carlton games to know if he still is like this as a defender.

[Mofra]

Considering he and Schache have similar temperaments and short leashes it may well be some non-negotiable stuff like competitiveness and not being lazy.
Spot on.
There are mistakes that fade with time (e.g. Garnder's composure, Smith getting caught with the ball in his first few games) and there are non-negotiables.

[Mantis]

I agree, body language tells a lot to me. I don't know about the training stuff and what the coach expects, but when I look at for example, Bruce, he may not have all the skills, but he is always giving more than 100% in effort, and attack on the ball and looks dangerous.

I don't think you can teach this, it is just in your nature.

He looked really dangerous running under the balls on Friday night didn't he... almost like he was expecting body contact and was getting out of the way of it.

Bruce had the most suitable match-up of any of our forwards on Friday night and pretty much stunk... as the senior member of our tall forward group he needs to carry the load against the good teams and not just beat up on the shit teams.

[1eyedog]

McGovern out

[Bulldog Joe]

McGovern out

That's a pity.

They may replace him with someone competent.

[Happy Days]

Did he get stuck in a doorway or something?

[Mofra]

That's a pity.

They may replace him with someone competent.
de Koning, who worries me more than McGovern

[Bulldog Joe]

de Koning, who worries me more than McGovern

Absolutely agree.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Tall guy on the fringe? Yeah that worries me.

[MrMahatma]

I don't think it's zero leeway.

I DO think it's zero leeway with regards whatever caused him to get dropped last year - people keep telling me it's competitiveness and defensive decision making so let's go with that...

I suspect skill errors etc don't phase the coaches too much but that he's on a short leash with regards 'other stuff'.

Is dropping someone the only way to teach them? Cause with Young it went from “grabbed the opportunity with both hands” to “dropped” in the space of a week.

Clearly we don’t know what’s expected or the full story but it looks like the axe falls quicker for some players than others.

[mjp]

Is dropping someone the only way to teach them? Cause with Young it went from “grabbed the opportunity with both hands” to “dropped” in the space of a week.


Of course not.

But with every player it works 'best' when you are working to a plan.

I am only projecting here but given other players - as you acknowledge - seem to have a longer leash than others, I suspect that in the case of Young he in some way 'broke faith' with something he had reached 'never again' stage with.

Sometimes players do 'well' - but for the good of themselves AND the understanding of the team, they need to be left out because they have not upheld their end of the bargain re- 'footy character' type behaviour. Is that what has happened here? I have no idea (how could I) but I'm not hearing about any mass revolt from the players about selection integrity...

As for the "grabbed his opportunity" comments - I mean, whatever. If we took Bevo at his word for everything he said at a presser well we'd all be going crazy.

[Mantis]

Of course not.

But with every player it works 'best' when you are working to a plan.

I am only projecting here but given other players - as you acknowledge - seem to have a longer leash than others, I suspect that in the case of Young he in some way 'broke faith' with something he had reached 'never again' stage with.

Sometimes players do 'well' - but for the good of themselves AND the understanding of the team, they need to be left out because they have not upheld their end of the bargain re- 'footy character' type behaviour. Is that what has happened here? I have no idea (how could I) but I'm not hearing about any mass revolt from the players about selection integrity...

As for the "grabbed his opportunity" comments - I mean, whatever. If we took Bevo at his word for everything he said at a presser well we'd all be going crazy.

The timing of the demotion of Young is what aggrieves me the most.

By anyone's measure he played a pretty reasonable game against Bris, his first game for quite a while. He defended well and took a number of strong intercept marks which is something our defence isn't great at. His kicking was 'safe' and whilst he was caught out defending 'high' a couple of times it seems this is how we defend so at times you're going to get burnt.

The following week Lewis played as a defender and took turns in the ruck... which was surprising given English was also in the team, but given GC didn't have a heap of talls in their team we probably wanted to try and stretch their defence. In the first half we kept GC to just one goal so the defensive group did extremely well, so you could only assume Lewis did a reasonable job. In the second half we did give up a number of goals, but my recollection of these was that this was as a result of some very aggressive & well executed kicking through the middle of the ground that caught a high defending team out of position, but I can't remember that Young was the only one caught out or the defender to blame in this situation... maybe he was and I just can't see it, but it seems strange to me that after a 10 goal win we drop a developing key defender for someone who doesn't have the same athletic profile and who has struggled previously as a key defender when we are clearly lacking someone of Young's athletic capabilities in our team.

But as is always #inbevowetrust

[Mofra]

The fact that Young was given his chance before Cordy was surely shows that the MC do have a preference for Young's athletic profile. His GC game was terrible (just non-competitive) and his game after the GC game at VFL level was woeful too. The gap between his best and worst is enormous.

Given how much discussion out list management thread has about finding a KPD and the fact list management team ask about KPDs every trade period, almost everyone is on the same page regarding concerns over a second KPD.

[The Pie Man]

The fact that Young was given his chance before Cordy was surely shows that the MC do have a preference for Young's athletic profile. His GC game was terrible (just non-competitive) and his game after the GC game at VFL level was woeful too. The gap between his best and worst is enormous.

Given how much discussion out list management thread has about finding a KPD and the fact list management team ask about KPDs every trade period, almost everyone is on the same page regarding concerns over a second KPD.

Was it really that bad?

Surely we had to back him in... I’ve been critical of him previously, but dropping him the way we did does nothing for his (or our back 6-7’s) development

Playing 2nd ruck that day was also very strange (though perhaps an indication that he’d already been dropped)

[comrade]

I went back and watched a bit of the Brisbane game and those intercepts he took, and that run down of Zac Bailey. Man, that was some impressive stuff. Cordy would need roller skates to keep up in the same scenario.

I get he's laconic, is prone to brain fades with positioning etc, but the amount of doubt and anxiety he must feel out there knowing he's on a razor's edge must make it really tough to play with freedom and confidence. The way we've developed him as a player leaves a lot to be desired. Not everyone is an honest battler, some need time and nurturing and patience.

[Mofra]

Was it really that bad?

Surely we had to back him in... I’ve been critical of him previously, but dropping him the way we did does nothing for his (or our back 6-7’s) development

Playing 2nd ruck that day was also very strange (though perhaps an indication that he’d already been dropped)
English didn't go into the ruck until the second half IIRC. Lewie has actually played decent VFL games as a ruck/forward (esp in 2019) so he's no mug in the ruck. I actually didn't think he was too bad in the middle, but a complete non-entity as a defender that game.

Everyone wants Lewie to succeed but if he is struggling to be the back-up option as the no 2 KPD in a team screaming out for a semi-competent KPD we have acknowledge there is a problem with his current output. Ditto Cordy who was fourth in line once the pre-season dust had settled (Keath, Gardner, and Lewie ahead of him).

[G-Mo77]

I went back and watched a bit of the Brisbane game and those intercepts he took, and that run down of Zac Bailey. Man, that was some impressive stuff. Cordy would need roller skates to keep up in the same scenario.

I get he's laconic, is prone to brain fades with positioning etc, but the amount of doubt and anxiety he must feel out there knowing he's on a razor's edge must make it really tough to play with freedom and confidence. The way we've developed him as a player leaves a lot to be desired. Not everyone is an honest battler, some need time and nurturing and patience.

The amount of rope Gardner was given last year was absurd. While he did improve in that area his toolkit outside of getting a hand in on a contest is still pretty ordinary. I just can't work out why we don't given Young a really long run at the top level, this seems like the perfect time. I just don't understand it at all. I'm not that against Cordy, I think he could play a role in the team, he's just not a KPD.

[The bulldog tragician]

I'm not comparing the talents of Lewis Young and Brian Lake/Harris but isn't it interesting the different coaching approaches to their early careers. Lake used to be regularly lambasted at media conferences by Rodney Eade including (memorably) the occasion where he allowed Drew Petrie to kick 5(?) in the first quarter. But he wasn't dropped. His first 50 games were nothing like his later ones - they never screamed 'future Norm Smith medallist' did they. His mistakes were regularly pointed out (in a way I often thought was too harsh) but he must have absorbed the criticism and kept learning.

I guess I wonder why with some players it seems that their learning and development in their roles can't still continue while they remain in the team. Wouldn't Lewy learn a helluva lot more against the best opposition than he seems to in a very much lower standard VFL and wouldn't we get a better idea of whether he is the player we hope he might be? It wasn't like he committed a Billy-Gowers-style singlehanded act that nearly cost us a match, in his second match in 2021 perhaps he strayed away from what was asked of him, but are we so rigid that we can't keep encouraging him about the good, pointing out the bad, while giving him a genuine chance to show us what he's made of without that constant self-doubt that the selection decisions must be creating in his mind.

[Mofra]

The amount of rope Gardner was given last year was absurd. While he did improve in that area his toolkit outside of getting a hand in on a contest is still pretty ordinary. I just can't work out why we don't given Young a really long run at the top level, this seems like the perfect time. I just don't understand it at all. I'm not that against Cordy, I think he could play a role in the team, he's just not a KPD.
As much as Khamis is not a KPD, are we at the point where we put him in (for Cordy) to create a mismatch when the ball is on the deck?
Crozier and Wood have been very good interceptors in the past and when we play our best our mids slow down opposition entries and those two are killing the high ball. Khamis can jump but he can actually accelerate as well. He's been close to selection and do we really lose that much by replacing Cordy, who seems slower this year than we've ever seen him?

[bornadog]

I know Young is still not at his peak as a player, but for this week, I want him in and playing on Harry.

If I see Cordy going to Harry, I will ring the TAB and put money on ten goals to Harry.

[bornadog]

He looked really dangerous running under the balls on Friday night didn't he... almost like he was expecting body contact and was getting out of the way of it.

He ran under the ball twice because he was actually trying to lead, but Bont just slammed the ball on his foot and kicked it over everyone's head.

We can't just keep bombing the ball into the 50 and expecting marks from Naughton and Bruce, we have to hit targets.

[G-Mo77]

As much as Khamis is not a KPD, are we at the point where we put him in (for Cordy) to create a mismatch when the ball is on the deck?
Crozier and Wood have been very good interceptors in the past and when we play our best our mids slow down opposition entries and those two are killing the high ball. Khamis can jump but he can actually accelerate as well. He's been close to selection and do we really lose that much by replacing Cordy, who seems slower this year than we've ever seen him?

Interesting Mofra. I'd personally like to see an experiment like this.

[Mantis]

I know Young is still not at his peak as a player, but for this week, I want him in and playing on Harry.

If I see Cordy going to Harry, I will ring the TAB and put money on ten goals to Harry.

Why can’t Keath play on McKay? Like we put our best & most mature tall defender on the oppositions most dangerous tall forward?

I know Keath isn’t most suited to this role, but he’s the best we’ve got

[bornadog]

Why can’t Keath play on McKay? Like we put our best & most mature tall defender on the oppositions most dangerous tall forward?

I know Keath isn’t most suited to this role, but he’s the best we’ve got

Yes he can.

[jeemak]

He ran under the ball twice because he was actually trying to lead, but Bont just slammed the ball on his foot and kicked it over everyone's head.

We can't just keep bombing the ball into the 50 and expecting marks from Naughton and Bruce, we have to hit targets.

There was at least one occasion where it had nothing to do with the kick.

[bornadog]

There was at least one occasion where it had nothing to do with the kick.

I don't understand, frankly don't care. :D

I just want the players to stop bombing the ball in.

[Mantis]

I don't understand, frankly don't care. :D

I just want the players to stop bombing the ball in.

The instances I'm referring to when he was on the lead and ran under the ball... it was all on him, not the kicker.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

There was at least one occasion where it had nothing to do with the kick.

That one incident was really really bad. But it's far to say it was an anomaly with Josh.

[DOG GOD]

I know Young is still not at his peak as a player, but for this week, I want him in and playing on Harry.

If I see Cordy going to Harry, I will ring the TAB and put money on ten goals to Harry.

Get that account ready Bornadog.

[DOG GOD]

If Lew Young gets dropped after one game for not performing to team expectations, KPI’s or whatever you want to call them, then the majority of our midfield should’ve missed a lot of games too over the last few years with their lack of intensity/defensive running etc etc etc.

Seems like different rules for different players to me.

[comrade]

Harry wil kick 10 but by geez, Cordy will compete and make it hard for him.

[bornadog]

Get that account ready Bornadog.

204cm, 105 kg v 193cm, 90kg

MEMO: Bevo, don't do it

[GVGjr]

I know Young is still not at his peak as a player, but for this week, I want him in and playing on Harry.

If I see Cordy going to Harry, I will ring the TAB and put money on ten goals to Harry.

Tend to agree, two games in wasn't enough of a chance for Young and he needs a few games to find his spot.
We won't develop taller youngsters to provide KP depth if they are just yo-yo'd in and out a few times each season.

[GVGjr]

Why can’t Keath play on McKay? Like we put our best & most mature tall defender on the oppositions most dangerous tall forward?

I know Keath isn’t most suited to this role, but he’s the best we’ve got

I think that is the most likely match-up and Keath will have a huge challenge with him.

[DOG GOD]

Let’s hope gastro hits the McKay household.

[Danjul]

In his first game back Young had 17 possessions (yes I know getting the ball in a footy match is so old school) 15 teammates had less.He also covered ground well forcing opposition wide. He also was third in marking behind English and Naughton. I thought he was one of our best, dropped after 2 games because the match committee could not resist pulling out their old playbook from 2018/2019. Looking forward to seeing the non performers from Friday get the chop. It will be a queue a mile long if there’s any justice and not just players!

No matter what anyone says that game was dead by 8pm Thursday.

[comrade]

In his first game back Young had 17 possessions (yes I know getting the ball in a footy match is so old school) 15 teammates had less.He also covered ground well forcing opposition wide. He also was third in marking behind English and Naughton. I thought he was one of our best, dropped after 2 games because the match committee could not resist pulling out their old playbook from 2018/2019. Looking forward to seeing the non performers from Friday get the chop. It will be a queue a mile long if there’s any justice and not just players!

No matter what anyone says that game was dead by 8pm Thursday.

Fancy seeing you here :D

[bornadog]

Tim English yet to tick all the boxes according to Stevo, so could miss this week as well.

[Bulldog Joe]

Tim English yet to tick all the boxes according to Stevo, so could miss this week as well.

I would be giving Tim more time.

The experience with Picken highlights the need to be cautious.

[jeemak]

If we're at Wednesday and he's not clearly ready to go then he should be given another week.

[kruder]

Tim English yet to tick all the boxes according to Stevo, so could miss this week as well.

Yeah they have been hinting at that all week, unlikely I reckon. Its going to be an interesting match committee if he doesn't play this for sure.

[Dry Rot]

Have not been well lately, and the second half of the Tigers game did not help that.

So I have not been on here recently nor have read all this thread, so I do not know if someone else has posted this.

Re JUH.

Most young players are best played through the VFL, building on their skills and correcting their weaknesses and then make their AFL debut.

But some seem to prosper by being played in the AFL, even if they do not appear to be ready.

From VFL match reports, JUH seems to be double or triple teamed all game. That would not happen in the AFL, where Naughton gets the defender and Bruce the second best.

Should we roll the dice and give JUH a crack?

[Mofra]

Should we roll the dice and give JUH a crack?
I have real concerns about his match fitness. He looked gassed at times at VFL level and that would only be worse at AFL level.
He's a clear talent - prhaps up there with Bont in terms of natural ability. Personally I think he needs time and from what I saw at VFL level a few stints on the wing during VFL games (as he's been given) will help him along.

Most AFL players would run off him fairly easily

[Happy Days]

Yeah he looked physically better/fitter last weekend but was undeniably blown up against the Giants, so it might have been a case of looking better live, or I might just really want to believe he’s ready.

If English isn’t fit I’d play him ahead of Schache regardless. If someone is gonna do nothing I’d rather it be a gassed Marra than a frightened Schache.

[1eyedog]

Yeah he looked physically better/fitter last weekend but was undeniably blown up against the Giants, so it might have been a case of looking better live, or I might just really want to believe he’s ready.

If English isn’t fit I’d play him ahead of Schache regardless. If someone is gonna do nothing I’d rather it be a gassed Marra than a frightened Schache.

Agreed happy to roll the dice and sub Marra at 3QT due to a lack of oxygen.

[hujsh]

Have not been well lately, and the second half of the Tigers game did not help that.

So I have not been on here recently nor have read all this thread, so I do not know if someone else has posted this.

Re JUH.

Most young players are best played through the VFL, building on their skills and correcting their weaknesses and then make their AFL debut.

But some seem to prosper by being played in the AFL, even if they do not appear to be ready.

From VFL match reports, JUH seems to be double or triple teamed all game. That would not happen in the AFL, where Naughton gets the defender and Bruce the second best.

Should we roll the dice and give JUH a crack?

But it may well be his reality in a few years. Maybe this is a worthwhile learning experience to give him in the VFL?

[comrade]

Agreed happy to roll the dice and sub Marra at 3QT due to a lack of oxygen.

Full body cramp like Clay Smith in his first game.

[ratsmac]

Bevo won't pick JUH out of spite this week!

[bornadog]

Full body cramp like Clay Smith in his first game.

That's ok, as long as he kicks as many as Clay did

[divvydan]

Buku Khamis to debut this week.

[comrade]

Buku Khamis to debut this week.

Yesssss

[Ozza]

I'm told the video for this one will be good.

Absolutely rapt for Buku.

[The Pie Man]

I'm told the video for this one will be good.

Absolutely rapt for Buku.

It was - bit of dust in my eye

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Must be coming in for Cordy? If so we’ll be really small down back.

[G-Mo77]

I'm told the video for this one will be good.

Absolutely rapt for Buku.

Watching it now. What a wonderful story. Congrats!!

[comrade]

I’m fascinated by how the side will look now Buku is confirmed. Are we going smaller in defence or is he replacing Wood/Crozier?

[bornadog]

It was - bit of dust in my eye

Bevo very emotional - (me too)

[Rocco Jones]

Could be for JJ? If Young isn't in, I hope Cordy is out anyway.

I assume McNeil will be back in, so maybe that who takes JJ's 'spot'.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I’m fascinated by how the side will look now Buku is confirmed. Are we going smaller in defence or is he replacing Wood/Crozier?

Yeah I’m keen to see the final teams as I wouldn’t have thought carlton were the best team to go in small against.

Are Thursday night teams back this week?

[G-Mo77]

Sounds like Schache is playing this week listening to the presser from today.

[Sedat]

I’m fascinated by how the side will look now Buku is confirmed. Are we going smaller in defence or is he replacing Wood/Crozier?
Wood is compiling a very good season as a lock-down defender. I see Crozier's position in the team as the more vulnerable of the two. Buku would be a good replacement for him.

[The Pie Man]

Bevo very emotional - (me too)

Aye - I remember reading during the pre season that Buku had to be taken out of certain drills in training as he was messing up the rhythm, hence the ‘2 million to 1’ chance to make it.

Hopefully his persistence will resonate with the rookie group we’ve got.

Can’t wait to see him play, he was very good against Melbourne in the pre season, has all the tools.

[bornadog]

Wood is compiling a very good season as a lock-down defender. I see Crozier's position in the team as the more vulnerable of the two. Buku would be a good replacement for him.

Crozier very disappointing last week. Needs to find some form

[Axe Man]

English no certainty to face Blues, says Beveridge (https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/928720/english-no-certainty-to-face-blues-says-beveridge)

Emerging ruck-forward Tim English will not be a definite starter this weekend, according to Western Bulldogs senior coach Luke Beveridge.

English suffered a concussion in the round six win over the GWS Giants, and was subsequently forced to sit out of last weekend’s loss to Richmond.

Beveridge said there are still a few boxes that need to be ticked off before English can return to the line-up.

He said Josh Schache had shown some pleasing signs in English’s absence last week.

“We’ll be cautious with (Tim) – if there’s any indication that he may need another week then we just won’t play him - he’s not a walk-up to definitely start this week,” Beveridge told media on Thursday morning.

“The great thing about Josh (Schache) last week was although he wasn’t having his best game, he persevered.

“I thought his last quarter was encouraging – he hasn’t played a lot of AFL footy in recent times, so we don’t want him to go out of the team but if Tim does play it probably influences some of our decision making around those roles.”

The Bulldogs suffered a 22-point loss to Richmond last Friday night, with Beveridge admitting his side “lost composure” in the second half.

“There was a bit of that (loss of composure) but there was also heat from Richmond, and I think their pressure game was strong,” Beveridge said.

“There’s no doubt in open space last week we were challenged - I think every team is when you give that much flow to the opposition, but there were sometimes where we felt like we should have been better.”

The Bulldogs will have to contend with a Blues’ outfit that have troubled them in recent times - and with an in-form Harry McKay leading the way.

“It’s going to be a challenge (against Carlton) for the boys who play there, whether it’s ‘Keathy’ or Zaine, or whether we pick ‘Lewy’ Young or not,“ Beveridge said.

“We’ve just got to make sure we limit the supply – that’s the main thing. We always say that, but hopefully we can halve some of those balls (coming into our defensive 50).”

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Schache will play if English doesn’t get up. Young a possibility to come in going by the presser. Either him or Cordy. So remains to be seen who Buku is coming in for.

[Cyberdoggie]

Great to see Buku playing his first game. Fantastic video there on the WB site with Bevo getting emotional, pity they edited a lot of it out.
Wouldn't surprise me to see Lewis Young get a game along side him, they seem to be best mates as they are always sitting together in the team meetings. Not that it means that much but i think they make a good combination with Keath as well.

[Mofra]

Sounds like Schache is playing this week listening to the presser from today.
We might get to see West stay in too, give the kids a couple of weeks to see if composure makes them perform.
West certainly deserves his chance after his VFL form. I hope he gets another game.

[josie]

Exciting regarding Buku debut. Despite Schache’s & Westy’s performance last Friday do not mind them being given another go. Weightman must be close.

[josie]

Would like Young in for Cordy too. We have to find out do we keep Young beyond this year.

[Happy Days]

Bunch of stuff re JJ’s 150th on IG so he’s probably safe too.

[bornadog]

Bunch of stuff re JJ’s 150th on IG so he’s probably safe too.

I thought he has played 148, so 150 next week if he is not dropped.

[Eastdog]

Good luck Buku!

A great story.

Watched the video. Great stuff!

[Axe Man]

I thought he has played 148, so 150 next week if he is not dropped.

Nope, he's played 149 according to multiple sources I can see.

[bornadog]

Nope, he's played 149 according to multiple sources I can see.

source? :D

[Dry Rot]

I have never seen Buku play. What should I expect to see on Sunday?

[Happy Days]

I have never seen Buku play. What should I expect to see on Sunday?

He's a pretty capable third tall defender, reads the ball in the air well and is strong in the contest. Good speed, solid but not outstanding skill level. He actually reminds me a lot of 2013-2014 Easton Wood.

[Ozza]

I have never seen Buku play. What should I expect to see on Sunday?

Bit of intercept marking. Superb left foot kick. Pretty good athleticism- will seem bigger than 6”2

[Axe Man]

source? :D

Club website & AFL Tables.

[bornadog]

Club website & AFL Tables.

Thanks

[Mantis]

Based on the VFL team it seems all of Wallis, Sweet and Young will play VFL.

Cordy not named either so assume he stays in too... can’t say I’m surprised, just disappointed.

[Axe Man]

Based on the VFL team it seems all of Wallis, Sweet and Young will play VFL.

Cordy not named either so assume he stays in too... can’t say I’m surprised, just disappointed.

I don't think the VFL team means anything at this stage, Khamis is named there and we know he's playing AFL.

[anfo27]

He's a pretty capable third tall defender, reads the ball in the air well and is strong in the contest. Good speed, solid but not outstanding skill level. He actually reminds me a lot of 2013-2014 Easton Wood.

Could we play Easton as that 2nd tall defender & Buku in his natural position? And Cordy back at Footscray!

[1eyedog]

Could we play Easton as that 2nd tall defender & Buku in his natural position? And Cordy back at Footscray!

Easton on McKay? Sounds good to me.

[Happy Days]

Nah we can’t do that at all. We need Young to play, this week and from now on. Buku should be replacing Crozier or Wood.

[DOG GOD]

Nah we can’t do that at all. We need Young to play, this week and from now on. Buku should be replacing Crozier or Wood.

Agree..it should be young and Khamis in, Cordy and crozier out

[comrade]

Agree..it should be young and Khamis in, Cordy and crozier out

I would like that, no chance it happens though.

(I should note that I liked all the changes last week and all of them stunk it up to an extent so what do I know...)

[The Underdog]

Could we play Easton as that 2nd tall defender & Buku in his natural position? And Cordy back at Footscray!

There’s no way the MC would ever play an undersized backline....:rolleyes:

[Bulldog4life]

I would like that, no chance it happens though.

(I should note that I liked all the changes last week and all of them stunk it up to an extent so what do I know...)

Nothing?;)

[Bulldog Joe]

Comrade makes a good point.

We have agonised over MC decisions for years and the time they actually do what we want, it is spectacularly unsuccessful.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Comrade makes a good point.

We have agonised over MC decisions for years and the time they actually do what we want, it is spectacularly unsuccessful.

Trengove last year also rings a bell.

But recruiting a second ruck has worked wonders. Maybe we should all just stick to list management and let the MC work their magic :D

[anfo27]

I like the idea of Wood being the 2nd tall defender. Yeah he is undersized but he can play taller with his leap & mobility. We don't have to worry about his lack of intensity in the contest like Young & far better than Cordy in the contest & with ball in hand. If Buku is ready & can blossom I would like to see this. Maybe it works & maybe it doesn't. I know Young & Cordy doesn't work & Gardiner i'm not sold on.

[jeemak]

I like the idea of Wood being the 2nd tall defender. Yeah he is undersized but he can play taller with his leap & mobility. We don't have to worry about his lack of intensity in the contest like Young & far better than Cordy in the contest & with ball in hand. If Buku is ready & can blossom I would like to see this. Maybe it works & maybe it doesn't. I know Young & Cordy doesn't work & Gardiner i'm not sold on.

I think it comes down to reach as well, and this is where Wood suffers. He's only 186-187cm, it's just too much to give away against the bigger forwards of today.

With the way umpires pay free kicks to forwards nowadays Wood would be a liability.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Yeah having Wood as the 2nd tall basically just comes back down to relying on our mids to limit supply. It's not sustainable IMO.

[comrade]

Yeah having Wood as the 2nd tall basically just comes back down to relying on our mids to limit supply. It's not sustainable IMO.

The defence in general isn't sustainable for a flag tilt as it currently stands because it relies so much on ruck/mid dominance - we're dependant on a 34 year in the ruck and our mids haven't proven capable of handling intense pressure from good opposition, will be our achilles heel come finals. We're just not the finished product yet.

[Grantysghost]

The defence in general isn't sustainable for finals tilt as it currently stands because it relies so much on ruck/mid dominance - we're dependant on a 34 year in the ruck and our mids haven't proven capable of handling intense pressure from good opposition, will be our achilles heel come finals. We're just not the finished product yet.

We laud our recruiting, why do we have such a blind spot in this regard?

[comrade]

We laud our recruiting, why do we have such a blind spot in this regard?

If the rumours are correct, we've asked questions of defenders every trade period but have only secured Keath (and thank god we got him). Dougal Howard and Aliir Aliir would have been perfect for us and cost peanuts.

We also drafted a gun defender in 2017...

[Grantysghost]

If the rumours are correct, we've asked questions of defenders every trade period but have only secured Keath (and thank god we got him). Dougal Howard and Aliir Aliir would have been perfect for us and cost peanuts.

We also drafted a gun defender in 2017...

Ed? He’s a little short right?

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Ed? He’s a little short right?

I think defender was a typo. He meant forward. Referring to Naughton.

[Grantysghost]

I think defender was a typo. He meant forward. Referring to Naughton.

I was cheekily disregarding his Naughton to defence mantra :cool:

[jeemak]

Yeah it's not a blind spot, I think we don't want poor quality or to have to over pay for medium quality.

[bornadog]

I think it comes down to reach as well, and this is where Wood suffers. He's only 186-187cm, it's just too much to give away against the bigger forwards of today.

With the way umpires pay free kicks to forwards nowadays Wood would be a liability.

Also he has lost some of his spring since the ankle reconstruction after the GF

[DOG GOD]

The defence in general isn't sustainable for a flag tilt as it currently stands because it relies so much on ruck/mid dominance - we're dependant on a 34 year in the ruck and our mids haven't proven capable of handling intense pressure from good opposition, will be our achilles heel come finals. We're just not the finished product yet.

Agree. When the pressure tap is turned on, our mids go missing, hence our defence comes under immense pressure like a dam wall breaking, ready for the flood. Blind Freddy can see it will be a major problem against the really good sides. We can’t rely on our interceptor in Keath to play a lock down FB role. It’s not his thing. I have absolutely no faith in Cordy/Young/Gardner to hold Lynch, Dixon, King, McKay, Hawkins types.

[comrade]

Agree. When the pressure tap is turned on, our mids go missing, hence our defence comes under immense pressure like a dam wall breaking, ready for the flood. Blind Freddy can see it will be a major problem against the really good sides. We can’t rely on our interceptor in Keath to play a lock down FB role. It’s not his thing. I have absolutely no faith in Cordy/Young/Gardner to hold Lynch, Dixon, King, McKay, Hawkins types.

Until JUH kicks on and Naughton goes back, I don’t think we’re going to win it all.

[Grantysghost]

Agree. When the pressure tap is turned on, our mids go missing, hence our defence comes under immense pressure like a dam wall breaking, ready for the flood. Blind Freddy can see it will be a major problem against the really good sides. We can’t rely on our interceptor in Keath to play a lock down FB role. It’s not his thing. I have absolutely no faith in Cordy/Young/Gardner to hold Lynch, Dixon, King, McKay, Hawkins types.

You can only beat what’s in front of you obviously but the two teams I really rate we have played so far, the Eagles and the Tigers it was pretty much a repeat of last year. Lions at Ballarat hard to gauge that game.

Next month will give us a fair indication of where things really sit.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

You can only beat what’s in front of you obviously but the two teams I really rate we have played so far, the Eagles and the Tigers it was pretty much a repeat of last year. Lions at Ballarat hard to gauge that game.

Next month will give us a fair indication of where things really sit.

Yep the next 4 weeks will be telling. Imagine if we sit 6-5 at the end of it. It's not far fetched considering we struggle against top sides and always have a hard time against Carlton and Saints. I think tomorrow is so important to our season. We really can't be dropping it (same with the saints in 2 weeks).

[DOG GOD]

Until JUH kicks on and Naughton goes back, I don’t think we’re going to win it all.

I am fully in your corner about Naughton back Comrade.

[bornadog]

I am fully in your corner about Naughton back Comrade.

Just can't agree with this. Naughton is going to be huge as a FF, combined with JUH in the future we will have a lethal forward line.

There is not much to being a backman - just look at Gardner.

The toughest role for a big man in footy is playing forward, and Naughton is going to be elite, so why would you move him?