Three things you've learned. Round seven 2021 v Richmond [Archive]

Yankee Hotel Foxtrot

30-04-2021, 10:24 PM

1. We'll bounce back, we had the game on our terms, and for whatever reason we allowed Richmond to regain the game on their terms.
2. I really thought our depth at VFL level was looking good. None of Schache, West or Hannan were anywhere near what we needed as replacements for English, Dunkley and Vandermeer.
3. We need to find some answers down back, for the times we don't have the game on our terms.

whythelongface

30-04-2021, 10:29 PM

1. Dunkley (apart from Libba) is our most important player.
2. We will learn a lot from tonight’s game. Their centre clearances from midway through the 2nd were unbelievable. We didn’t react and got smashed.
3. Our top players go missing and don’t step up. Where were Bont, Macrae, Treloar when we needed them.

1eyedog

30-04-2021, 10:32 PM

1. Schache is either tried at CHB or doesn't play again. As he hasn't been playing at CHB in the VFL at all I would say he doesn't play agin.

2. Our much vaulted midfield was absolutely destroyed by a Richmond team missing their two best mids.

3. When Bruce is bad he's very bad. Things work out ok for him sometimes but dropping simple marks and continually misreading the flight of the ball through the air (in uncontested situations), is just a massive no no as a genuine key forward. You must take those marks otherwise you don't play. Think I'd prefer to go back to two key forwards, Naughton and English.

DOG GOD

30-04-2021, 10:33 PM

1. Dunkley and English were massive outs. They are almost irreplaceable.
2. Richmond are still the team to beat for the flag.
3. We can’t win the premiership with our current backline.

comrade

30-04-2021, 10:35 PM

I learnt we’re probably not much of a chance to win it all. Not enough talent in defence, too many panic merchants in the middle. At least I can ease off the footy content and live life a bit more now, so that’s good.

chef

30-04-2021, 10:36 PM

1. Richmond are still the team to beat.

2. Cordy and Shaq should never play again.

3. Top of the table was fun while it lasted but it aint our spot.

Grantysghost

30-04-2021, 10:39 PM

1. The Tigers system is probably the best ever.

2. Defences win flags and we just don’t have one that measures up to the top sides.

3. Schache isn’t going to forge an AFL career unfortunately.

AshMac

30-04-2021, 10:41 PM

1. If I ever hear calls to bring schache back in after a good vfl performance I’ll spew up

2. They are such a quality team and shouldn’t be under estimated. Despite this - the game was ours to lose

3. Caleb Daniel back in touch was delightful

mjp

30-04-2021, 10:52 PM

1/. It's April. We had won 6 in a row. A fall was coming sooner or later.

2/. I understand the angst about Schache and West - who both looked hopelessly out of sorts and out of their depth...but what a game to come into. I know what the MC was thinking but 5-minutes in it appeared both had been set up to fail...and by half time it seemed cruel...they'll be better. Well...West will be better. Josh I'm not sure of but wont hang him on one game.

3/. Josh Bruce was Josh Bruce and simply doesn't compete hard enough. Bailey Smith seemed to panic every time he received the ball in D50. And both of our key talls seemed to want to stand whichever opponent they weren't currently on...which was bad...

4/. Thank GOD for Naughton.

Mutz

30-04-2021, 10:54 PM

1. I'm gonna disagree with most and say that our backline was OK. They only scored 11 goals,
and I thought we held them as good as could be expected given the relenting pressure after half-time.

2. A big problem with our forward line is that the smalls are used to sharking the 3-headed monster.
When its one-on-one they have to contest in the air. It was embarrassing so many times tonight.

3. Nankervis was good but Martin wasn't too far behind. We lost the clearances (after half-time)
because their mids were far more aggressive, and dare I say it, faster.

Nuggety Back Pocket

30-04-2021, 10:58 PM

1. Schache was poor but so was Bruce who was pathetic
2. The loss of Dunkley exposed us on the inside when Cotchin took over
3. Martin sadly lacked impact around the ground which highlighted how much English was missed

westbulldog

30-04-2021, 11:18 PM

1. Tonight was a preview of finals pressure on a big stage and several did not cut it at all.
2. The backline will be far better when Williams enters and Cordy exits.
3. Eleni Glouftsis was originally named as the reserve umpire, a position she should have remained in.

GVGjr

30-04-2021, 11:26 PM

1 - 6 straight wins and a very healthy percentage paper over some of the cracks
2 - English is more important to our new team balance than I've given him credit for
3 - Bevo has plenty of work to do

The Bulldogs Bite

30-04-2021, 11:36 PM

1. We're a good side but not a top side. Key defenders are our biggest issue now.

2. We've lost our massive advantage over sides with Dunkley on the LTIL. Replacing him isn't possible, no matter how it's spun.

3. We should make a call on a few types ie Cordy and Schache. I'm not convinced on Young but when he's on he at least gives us aerial presence and an ability to win the ball back. Cordy is poor 1-v-1, undersized, poorly skilled and slow - it's a waste of a position. Schache... Bye.

boydogs

01-05-2021, 01:10 AM

1. Schache getting the 3rd best defender doesn't help him

2. Cordy is a shadow of his former self

3. AFL is a big step up from VFL

SonofScray

01-05-2021, 01:22 AM

macca

01-05-2021, 01:57 AM

1. this was good finals type pressure football, which we had brain farts when clearing out of defense. Our system was in disarray when the tigers got the lead and heaped on the pressure.

Against a quality team we have no quiet time and the lapse or ordinary efforts will resonate in pain on the score board. Our defense was ok tonight against the pressure as the last half of the second quarter they pretty much owned the ball in their forward half, but I think our disposal in the middle really let us down.

2. Nankervis showed Martin his age today, and I think we need to start the transition with Sweet sooner than later.
3. there is still a Gap in our players in best and ordinary footy. Consistency in all aspects of the game needs to be obtained. I know its easy to say typing this on the keyboard, but thats what gets you to Grannies ... oh and a bit of luck.
4. I like wood's intensity. Its kinda a new look about him, almost mongrel mad dog like.

The bulldog tragician

01-05-2021, 10:08 AM

1. Unpopular opinion coming up...on the MCG if we constantly seek to play through Caleb Daniel, we will struggle. His kicks as we all know are concise and creative. But they can also slow the game down, especially if we go backwards, sideways to him, allowing a side like Richmond to set up well, and meaning it was more kicks under immense pressure to clear their 50m zone let alone make dangerous forward entries.

2. I have no answer to what to do about Point One.

3. Losing sucks. The way the doubts creep in. Having to pretend to be gracious to Richmond-supporting friends and colleagues. The way their success reminds me of how they kept their hunger, how many of their more average players improved while some of ours have not. Yep. Losing sucks.

Mantis

01-05-2021, 10:24 AM

1/ We miss Bailey Williams.. his ability to find space is so important in a territory contest.

2/ When all else is failing you simply need to halve contests against your opponent and we couldn’t do that.

3/ There’s a big gap between playing against GWS reserves in front of 3 people & a dog compared to the best team of the last 5 years in front of 50K.

DOG GOD

01-05-2021, 10:35 AM

Williams or Dale should be doing kick out. Not Daniel.

Murphy'sLore

01-05-2021, 10:59 AM

1. Our depth is not as deep as I thought it was.
2. I like Schache, but he's gone. JJ is past it.
3. Losing is not fun. Didn't take me long to get used to the winning feeling, did not enjoy it not happening.

Happy Days

01-05-2021, 11:30 AM

1. Richmond's system is incredible. Their commitment to pressuring the ball carrier is really admirable and something that I wish we could do with the same intensity.

2. JJ is a broken player at the moment. There's no flow to his game and he looks terrified when he gets the ball. I hope the electric player from what feels like a lifetime ago is still in there.

3. Schache will never make it. I was willing to tolerate him having a bad game, but that was the exact sort of bad game, riddled with half efforts and deer-in-the-headlights moments with the ball, that he couldn't have. Lay a tackle, crash a pack, do literally anything to show you actually care about playing footy.

comrade

01-05-2021, 11:34 AM

3. Schache will never make it. I was willing to tolerate him having a bad game, but that was the exact sort of bad game, riddled with half efforts and deer-in-the-headlights moments with the ball, that he couldn't have. Lay a tackle, crash a pack, do literally anything to show you actually care about playing footy.

The repeat contested marks to Balta were bad but I still rationalised them as the kicks not being advantageous. Then he did that 5m kick directly to the Richmond player and I was like, nah I'm out. You can't carry this type of player into a final (and we had a few of his ilk last night).

DOG GOD

01-05-2021, 11:40 AM

There’s only so many chances a player can get. Schache has been given opportunities, and rarely takes them. He might play the odd good game, but there’s no consistency from one game to another. He’s just not a player with intensity, and I was in the group of hoping he could make it. He can’t. He’s gone.

JJ to me just seems like a mentally weak player. When the chips are down, he goes missing on far too many occasions. He has all the attributes to get things rolling, but has completely gone into his shell since he was tagged into extinction. He’s Gone.

And Westy. I had high hopes for, but the more I see of him, the more I’m thinking he will be nothing more than a fringe/depth player. Last night I was wishing we had played McNeil, and that’s saying something.

BornInDroopSt'54

01-05-2021, 11:53 AM

We got spooked by the occasion at the MCG.
Started like we owned the place then seemed in awe of what we may do.
Naughton and Bont can freak out with a set shot 10m out.

angelopetraglia

01-05-2021, 12:15 PM

1. In the last quarter, right in front of me. JJ needed to put a lot pressure on player about to kick it long into their goal square (they got a goal from it). I watched him closely. He took short steps and didn't put in the necessary effort and desperation to tackle or pressure him. If it was the other way around ... JJ would not have got an effective kick away. Toughness has never been his greatest strength. However, when he is at his best he isn't shirking contests. JJ back to the VFL.

2. Josh Schache. I have defended you. I have supported you. You had a massive chance. I was wrong. It is clear you just don't have the toughness or intensity to meet the ball hard when it is required at the AFL level. Pushed aside to easily, didn't attack the ball in the air, didn't even square a contest. Sorry. Line drawn through you. Your AFL career is over.

3. Bailey Dale. Stood up under the intense heat last night. Was one of our best. Has come a long way. Has cemented his spot.

Must add one more. Apologies to the board.

4. Tiger fans. What a pack of whingers. In the first half when they were actually winning the free kick count they were bronx cheering the umps every time they got a free kick. Whinged every time we got a clear free and were basically detached from the reality of the rules. They have had it too good for too long and are now in fairy land. They were terrible supporters when they were rubbish, they have exponentially got worse now that they are one of the best teams ever. Learn some respect and humility.

EasternWest

01-05-2021, 12:18 PM

1. Richmond remain great, despite some results pointing to the contrary.

2. I'm not too dissatisfied with last night - there were definitely worrying areas and some unacceptable stuff, but we were always going to lose eventually. Best to be shown how to win by the best team from he last five years.

3. Low key Easton Wood has been pretty bloody good this year.

Happy Days

01-05-2021, 12:28 PM

I just thought of a fourth one - our full ground defensive style, as flagged by me after I stole it from that ABC article, is not suited to the MCG. We need to play in a manner that gives more support to our key defenders in actual defensive contests as opposed to supporting them by trying to stop the ball making it to them.

angelopetraglia

01-05-2021, 12:31 PM

Grantysghost

01-05-2021, 12:41 PM

Richmond played that well all night. Pushed their press up really high.

Yep they did, and the risk of sounding like a broken record I'd love to see some more tempo footy when this happens
The Swans sliced their way through with patience and precision.
We are 4 goals up and continue to HPH (hot potato handball I'm making it my thing) even when everyone can see the tide is turning.

I wanted to see a leader call a play that calms things down.

We move it around we hold it for a while until we can get a mark inside 50.

Easier said than done against the Tigers but it's something I wish to see more of at times.

DOG GOD

01-05-2021, 12:43 PM

Yep, it almost seems we have a kamikaze style or nothing.

Bulldog4life

01-05-2021, 12:54 PM

1 JJ is finished at AFL level with us, can’t trust him anymore. Not enough tools left in the bag.
2 We struggle to win the ball back if the opposition don’t rush.
3 West generates good opportunities inside 50

He did in the first quarter but unfortunately he feels he has to have a ping at the goals each time. His brain doesn't say look for a better option.

Bulldog4life

01-05-2021, 01:01 PM

1. The VFL is miles behind the AFL.
2. Thank God for Naughty.
3. A fit Dunks is so important to our team.

GVGjr

01-05-2021, 01:16 PM

1. The VFL is miles behind the AFL.
2. Thank God for Naughty.
3. A fit Dunks is so important to our team.

You have to wonder why teams were so keen on getting their own state league sides?
Last year things were blamed on not having a VFL side

BornInDroopSt'54

01-05-2021, 02:44 PM

COVID cancellation affected VFL and all comp's standards. No games if not in the firsts.
Mainly why Jamarra is in the VFL.

comrade

01-05-2021, 04:31 PM

We desperately need more height, marking power and athleticism in our backline.

bornadog

01-05-2021, 04:42 PM

We desperately need more height, marking power and athleticism in our backline.

We have spoken about Schache, but what about Bruce? He has played the roll before? I don't want Naughton there as he is a weapon up forward.

DOG GOD

01-05-2021, 06:27 PM

We have spoken about Schache, but what about Bruce? He has played the roll before? I don't want Naughton there as he is a weapon up forward.

The Naughton, Bruce, English fwd line was working really well before Timmy got injured. I wanna see how it goes further into the season.

Schache will be lucky to play again (unless Bruce and Naughton were both injured).
I’m still an advocate for Naughton back, but we just need him fwd both in marking capacity, but also ground level prowess.

At the end of the day, we have Keath, and then we have Gardner, Cordy and Young who are all capable in parts (against the lesser teams), but liabilities against the top teams, and more VFL than AFL.

Our defence has looked thin since the departure of Hamling. The defence will continue to be our Achilles heel, and the top sides know it.

merantau

01-05-2021, 07:11 PM

1. We were still in the game (just) with five minutes to go
2. Richmond's 2nd half intensity was extreme and we did not cope.
3. Our outs really hurt us.

AshMac

02-05-2021, 08:45 AM

2. Josh Schache. I have defended you. I have supported you. You had a massive chance. I was wrong. It is clear you just don't have the toughness or intensity to meet the ball hard when it is required at the AFL level. Pushed aside to easily, didn't attack the ball in the air, didn't even square a contest. Sorry. Line drawn through you. Your AFL career is over.

I can handle him being out marked by Balta. I can handle him readjusting to the pace of AFL games and being out of position whilst he dusts off the cobwebs. I can handle skill errors early in his return to AFL.

What I can’t handle is a player deep in the forward line look at a contest and decide not to go in when the game is still there to be won in the last qtr.

mjp

02-05-2021, 03:32 PM

Schache has been given opportunities

I completely get the frustration with Schache but he hadn't played since R#6 last year. Having spent time with him (albeit an eternity ago) he has always lacked intensity at the contest...but every player has weaknesses.

On Friday night, why was it (seemingly) always Schache in position for the exit kick vs Balta. Surely that should have been our BEST forwards role (Naughton) or even the role of Bont or even someone like Crozier who is adept at halving one of those 50-50 balls. It's not Josh's go...it never has been and it never will be. If that means he can't play, well, I get that. But he just seemed to be set up for failure to me.

And Westy. I had high hopes for, but the more I see of him, the more I’m thinking he will be nothing more than a fringe/depth player.

Harsh.

He needs a genuine block of games to find his place. I'm talking 'Listen Westy - that wasn't your best effort but we believe in you. Whether you are best or worst afield, the next 6 weeks you will play...just relax and play footy. Don't worry about making mistakes or getting dropped...'

Has this kid ever had that?

DOG GOD

02-05-2021, 04:36 PM

I completely get the frustration with Schache but he hadn't played since R#6 last year. Having spent time with him (albeit an eternity ago) he has always lacked intensity at the contest...but every player has weaknesses.

On Friday night, why was it (seemingly) always Schache in position for the exit kick vs Balta. Surely that should have been our BEST forwards role (Naughton) or even the role of Bont or even someone like Crozier who is adept at halving one of those 50-50 balls. It's not Josh's go...it never has been and it never will be. If that means he can't play, well, I get that. But he just seemed to be set up for failure to me.

Harsh.

He needs a genuine block of games to find his place. I'm talking 'Listen Westy - that wasn't your best effort but we believe in you. Whether you are best or worst afield, the next 6 weeks you will play...just relax and play footy. Don't worry about making mistakes or getting dropped...'

Has this kid ever had that?

Maybe a bit harsh MJP, but from what I can see (and you’d know more than me), every time West plays, he doesn’t really have a role, and he doesn’t really have a position. He’s a bitsy mid, with a hit of fwd. I understand he hasn’t really been given a go, but if the club was going to turn around and say “you’ve got 6 weeks to just get out there and play”, I just don’t see how he fits in..where he fits in.

I liked Schache when he first arrived. He moves well, marks well, is a great kick, but he just doesn’t have what Bevo and the match committee want. He lacks confidence (in and out of the team), and I have no doubt that the MC doesn’t have confidence in him either.

mjp

02-05-2021, 05:33 PM

He’s a bitsy mid, with a hit of fwd.

So pick a role and let him play it.

I remember listening to Fraser Brown say that after each of his first 6x games he was dropped - by 2x different coaches. If we want him to be a player, can we just give him the chance to be a player.

When he didn't play on and kick to the open man in the first quarter, well, that wasn't "TEAM" (and annoyed the hell out of me). BUT at the same time I understood that his head was in a different place...it's hard to be all about "TEAM" when you don't know if you're in it.

bornadog

02-05-2021, 05:37 PM

So pick a role and let him play it.

I remember listening to Fraser Brown say that after each of his first 6x games he was dropped - by 2x different coaches. If we want him to be a player, can we just give him the chance to be a player.

When he didn't play on and kick to the open man in the first quarter, well, that wasn't "TEAM" (and annoyed the hell out of me). BUT at the same time I understood that his head was in a different place...it's hard to be all about "TEAM" when you don't know if you're in it.

I think on Friday we did pick a role for West, ie small forward. I didn't see him in the midfield at all.

DOG GOD

02-05-2021, 05:58 PM

So pick a role and let him play it.

I remember listening to Fraser Brown say that after each of his first 6x games he was dropped - by 2x different coaches. If we want him to be a player, can we just give him the chance to be a player.

When he didn't play on and kick to the open man in the first quarter, well, that wasn't "TEAM" (and annoyed the hell out of me). BUT at the same time I understood that his head was in a different place...it's hard to be all about "TEAM" when you don't know if you're in it.

I agree, so let’s see what role the MC/coach decides to warrant his selection, and hopefully he turns into the player we are all hoping.