Richmond vs Port - Compare The Pair

[bulldogtragic]

Basics:

Both opponents well matched it seems in the Prelim last year.
Strong midfields, good big forwards, decent enough defence.
We played both on their home grounds with their home supporters.

Players different:

Richmond: Martin, Hunter, West, Schache
Port: Sweet, Williams, Weightman, Roarke

Pound for Pound pretty similar.

Richmond: Lead by about 4 Goals in the second term > Huge Surge & Run of Goals > Lose by 22 Points
Port: Lead by about 4 Goals at quarter time > Huge Surge & Run of Goals > Win by 19 Points

The question I have is, what did we learn from the Richmond game, or what did we do better, or reduce the prevalence of (ie panic kicks), or who stood up, who lead or marshalled the structures better, how did we shut down Dixon but not Lynch, did we change the tempo to a different degree, we’re we just ‘on’ a bit better last night, was our pressure in any of the three areas better, did the personnel dramatically impact things, or what moves did Bevo make differently or different instructions?

There’s a lot of similarities as I’ve laid out. But there’s a 41 point spread between the two results. To distill the question further, what did we do and how did we do it? Then repeat it as needed.

[jeemak]

I've been thinking about this a bit, and will watch the replay with a bit more clarity to hopefully see any tangible differences.

It seemed their defence wasn't as compressed as Richmond's was and this coupled with better contested efforts from us on the outlet may have led to less intercept marks. We didn't seem to panic kick as you've noted, though things look worse when the ball's turned over so we may have just without the negative consequences.

[bulldogtragic]

I've been thinking about this a bit, and will watch the replay with a bit more clarity to hopefully see any tangible differences.

It seemed their defence wasn't as compressed as Richmond's was and this coupled with better contested efforts from us on the outlet may have led to less intercept marks. We didn't seem to panic kick as you've noted, though things look worse when the ball's turned over so we may have just without the negative consequences.

Appreciate it JMan. I’m going to watch it again too because I’m genuinely interested in what we did differently, be it skills and/or having learnt from Richmond debrief with the coaches and the players adjusted in real time accordingly. Or did Bevo make a move mid second quarter that I missed? It was a really mature win and pin pointing where we turned it around last night, as opposed to Richmond will hopefully be illuminating.

[Smads57]

Bevo in his press conference specifically mentioned not doing anything (from the coaches box) in the 2nd qtr and that the players 'manufactured' our getting thing back on even keel. When watching the game again, suggest we need to look for what the players did differently from the 15 minute mark in the second quarter.

[bulldogtragic]

Bevo in his press conference specifically mentioned not doing anything (from the coaches box) in the 2nd qtr and that the players 'manufactured' our getting thing back on even keel. When watching the game again, suggest we need to look for what the players did differently from the 15 minute mark in the second quarter.

Roger that. He must have felt that the players responded well to the Richmond debrief and understood how to respond. Ballsy ‘sink or swim’ call from Bevo. And now the players know exactly what to do, with room to improve still.

[Go_Dogs]

He basically said knew the wheel would turn - our midfield is too good to stay getting beaten.

Precise kicking under pressure and being able to find a short outlet was the difference. Tigers have a better set of forwards who apply pressure in the front half than Port do at this stage. We were more composed - but maybe better able to execute against an opponent not quite on the same level in that aspect of the game.

[Happy Days]

I didn't watch it live so could kind of take the sting out of it a little but their 5-6 goal run never felt irresistable. Thought it was a pretty complete performance.

[Stefcep]

IMO in the modern game, there's a disproportionate focus on the lead up play, set up and creation of scoring opportunities and not enough on the actual finishing. If We converted half of the 7 or 8 gettable misses against Richmond, several at crucial moments, we win that game.

Everyone seemed to be in awe of how dominant Richmond were in the third, forgetting how dominant we were in the first, and the number of chances to put the game to bed we squandered. Its a game of fine margins at the highest level. and you miss your chance, you lose.

Against Port we took the chances and won. To me it is that simple.

Having said that no side is capable of either our best or Richmonds performance over 4 qtrs against top 4 opposition.

[Stefcep]

Just to add, compare the scoring shots in the two games.

Against Port we kick 15.6. Against Richmond 7.13. Almost identical scoring shots 21 versus 20. A single scoring shot the difference and completely different result.

[bulldogtragic]

Just to add, compare the scoring shots in the two games.

Against Port we kick 15.6. Against Richmond 7.13. Almost identical scoring shots 21 versus 20. A single scoring shot the difference and completely different result.

Was the quality of the I50’s the same in both games? I can’t remember the shots in the Richmond game, were the misses from set shots or forced snaps or Richmond giving up shallow entries on angles to reduce the likelihood of conversion? We’re there any misses altogether or shots not making the distance and Richmond rushing/spoiling the ball?

Sorry for all the questions, I don’t remember the finer points of our shots against Richmond.

[ratsmac]

Not to sure what all the factors were for a much more mature performance this time but 1 big difference was Bailey Williams. We look so much better in defence when he's there competing. And much better coming from defence especially.

Do we beat Port had we not lost to Richmond? I think we definitely learnt a lesson against the tigers that steadied us against Port for sure.

[Stefcep]

Was the quality of the I50’s the same in both games? I can’t remember the shots in the Richmond game, were the misses from set shots or forced snaps or Richmond giving up shallow entries on angles to reduce the likelihood of conversion? We’re there any misses altogether or shots not making the distance and Richmond rushing/spoiling the ball?

Sorry for all the questions, I don’t remember the finer points of our shots against Richmond.

Around 8 gettable misses I think were listed by me in the Richmond game thread.

Poor goal kicking cost St Kilda the game as well.

Modern coaching seems to focus on winning contested ball, structure around stoppages. accumulating inside 50's. None of which matters if a goal isn't kicked.

Seems to me they believe if you get the other things right the goal kicking will take care of itself.

Well it doesn't, hasn't and won't and it will cost teams finals wins.

[Twodogs]

Around 8 gettable misses I think were listed by me in the Richmond game thread.

Poor goal kicking cost St Kilda the game as well.

Modern coaching seems to focus on winning contested ball, structure around stoppages. accumulating inside 50's. None of which matters if a goal isn't kicked.

Seems to me they believe if you get the other things right the goal kicking will take care of itself.

Well it doesn't, hasn't and won't and it will cost teams finals wins.

It's almost like modern day coaches refuse to put any value on things like goalkicking practice for some reason. Do they think it's too simple or something that was important back in the VFL days or do they just have different priorities they focus on nowadays? I know that we have improved our accuracy a lot (some games excepted) this year, I don't know if we have been practicing goal kicking or our entry into I50 is different or the players are lining up from closer to goal?


One thing I do know is that a few years ago when I went to a lot of training sessions that goalkicking practice was pretty haphazard. It would invariably be at the end of a session as players were walking off. There would be nobody on the mark and no effort was made to replicate mach conditions. They haven't let anyone into training for years so it's difficult to tell if they do anything differently now.

[Mofra]

One thing I do know is that a few years ago when I went to a lot of training sessions that goalkicking practice was pretty haphazard. It would invariably be at the end of a session as players were walking off. There would be nobody on the mark and no effort was made to replicate mach conditions. They haven't let anyone into training for years so it's difficult to tell if they do anything differently now.
They never do any goalkicking at the start of training as pretty much all goalkicking practice is under fatigue to try and get some semblance of match-day condition into the kicking.
Travis Cloke used to wear headphones with crowd noise to add a little bit of matchday experience to his kicking practice.

[bulldogtragic]

I’m nearing half time. There were a couple of skill errors that cost Port the chance the keep their run going. That aside, to my eye there were some similarities around missed tackles and poor kicks out. To me we kept our defensive set up a lot better. None of the panic kick out that lead to panic under the returning ball. I also put some stock in Duryea. At the peak of their run on the near side he laid a good tackle and got a high fend-off free paid to him. He just held the footy for longer than usual, understood to slow the momentum and give our forwards a chance to compete. On the far side he took a good contested mark with two Port players nearby. Again he slows things down again and repeat. Just now instead of the deep panic kick, Duryea hits a shorter precise kick out to Naughton.

On the critical side, Crozier misses tackles, didn’t kill contests and later I recall a few bad kicks. I’d put several goals against Croz, with losing Wood’s calmness it was disappointing not to see the same maturity and execution that Duryea exercised. Bailey Dale with uncharacteristic skill errors.

My take away is better structure by the players and some mature influence by Duryea from what was the end of their run to us hitting the scoreboard again. Very happy with Doc.

[jeemak]

Crozier not being up to the speed of the game or in-tune with it stood out to me as well, and having played a lot of footy from the bench under coaching that rarely used the bench I know how hard it is to come on and have an impact or even get up to speed.

The Fantasia goal saw Crozier get sucked to the contest instead of keeping his width meaning he couldn't pressure the crumb, and allowing Motlop to get onto his right to hit up a target who goaled are a couple of examples of this, but he played better in the second half.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I’m nearing half time. There were a couple of skill errors that cost Port the chance the keep their run going. That aside, to my eye there were some similarities around missed tackles and poor kicks out. To me we kept our defensive set up a lot better. None of the panic kick out that lead to panic under the returning ball. I also put some stock in Duryea. At the peak of their run on the near side he laid a good tackle and got a high fend-off free paid to him. He just held the footy for longer than usual, understood to slow the momentum and give our forwards a chance to compete. On the far side he took a good contested mark with two Port players nearby. Again he slows things down again and repeat. Just now instead of the deep panic kick, Duryea hits a shorter precise kick out to Naughton.

On the critical side, Crozier misses tackles, didn’t kill contests and later I recall a few bad kicks. I’d put several goals against Croz, with losing Wood’s calmness it was disappointing not to see the same maturity and execution that Duryea exercised. Bailey Dale with uncharacteristic skill errors.

My take away is better structure by the players and some mature influence by Duryea from what was the end of their run to us hitting the scoreboard again. Very happy with Doc.

Yeah even in the 4th port fluffed a few chances.

[AshMac]

Not to sure what all the factors were for a much more mature performance this time but 1 big difference was Bailey Williams. We look so much better in defence when he's there competing. And much better coming from defence.

Huge factor I think too.

He provides the composure when the ball is hotly contested, rarely gives it up when he plays on and creates play and has the elite kicking skill to play the first option and release a block 30 meters way.

When we played the tigers we were scared to take risks and failed to play on, the ball was stagnant in our heads and we constantly kicked to come tests.

Just watched the replay of the 3rd quarter this morning. Williams gathered the ball in a tackle, held onto it, spun around twice and then kicked a wobbly kick to Bont who was by himself 30 meters away. Setup a run down the wing and entry into 50.

[bulldogtragic]

I’m nearing half time. There were a couple of skill errors that cost Port the chance the keep their run going. That aside, to my eye there were some similarities around missed tackles and poor kicks out. To me we kept our defensive set up a lot better. None of the panic kick out that lead to panic under the returning ball. I also put some stock in Duryea. At the peak of their run on the near side he laid a good tackle and got a high fend-off free paid to him. He just held the footy for longer than usual, understood to slow the momentum and give our forwards a chance to compete. On the far side he took a good contested mark with two Port players nearby. Again he slows things down again and repeat. Just now instead of the deep panic kick, Duryea hits a shorter precise kick out to Naughton.

On the critical side, Crozier misses tackles, didn’t kill contests and later I recall a few bad kicks. I’d put several goals against Croz, with losing Wood’s calmness it was disappointing not to see the same maturity and execution that Duryea exercised. Bailey Dale with uncharacteristic skill errors.

My take away is better structure by the players and some mature influence by Duryea from what was the end of their run to us hitting the scoreboard again. Very happy with Doc.

Watching this replay really opened my eyes up to Crozier. Not least the panicked kicks that led to goals later after half time. But I say this with clear mind, he’s a liability. I’ve been paying close attention over the weeks and there’s way too many mistakes (the ones that Young maybe be making or not). The panicked kicks to no target. There’s no creativity or hurt with his kicking. Long down the line or when he tries something more ambitious he far too frequently misses the target. He gets shaken too easy from tackles. He makes blunders like the holding the ball tonight. He’s often slow to comprehend other players instructions. There was a play tonight I think it was Macrae directing him to move the ball quickly. Croz saw and heard him, stopped, thought about it, looked around and eventually took the option Jack was telling him to make. But long enough for their defenders to set up.

If you’d have told me the end of 2019 that I’d be now a fan of Duryea to the extent I am and want to see Crozier improve at the VFL level i wouldn’t have believed you. But Doc does all the unfashionable defending and is quick in mind and clever enough by foot. I want Wood comes back after the bye and Croz gets a chance to improve his game. He’s got talent, but I’m not seeing it compute against Doc’s or Wood’s best footy right now.

[hujsh]

Watching this replay really opened my eyes up to Crozier. Not least the panicked kicks that led to goals later after half time. But I say this with clear mind, he’s a liability. I’ve been paying close attention over the weeks and there’s way too many mistakes (the ones that Young maybe be making or not). The panicked kicks to no target. There’s no creativity or hurt with his kicking. Long down the line or when he tries something more ambitious he far too frequently misses the target. He gets shaken too easy from tackles. He makes blunders like the holding the ball tonight. He’s often slow to comprehend other players instructions. There was a play tonight I think it was Macrae directing him to move the ball quickly. Croz saw and heard him, stopped, thought about it, looked around and eventually took the option Jack was telling him to make. But long enough for their defenders to set up.

If you’d have told me the end of 2019 that I’d be now a fan of Duryea to the extent I am and want to see Crozier improve at the VFL level i wouldn’t have believed you. But Doc does all the unfashionable defending and is quick in mind and clever enough by foot. I want Wood comes back after the bye and Croz gets a chance to improve his game. He’s got talent, but I’m not seeing it compute against Doc’s or Wood’s best footy right now.
Doc was huge yesterday. Crozier's kicked suited the wet conditions later on I thought.