Leading Goalkickers...and a QUESTION.

[mjp]

So - I have been supporting the Dog's since I was approx 14 and have been a member since age 24. Which I am quite proud of since it means I have paid lots of $ to basically never attend any games.

In all of that time, we have pretty much ALWAYS been begging the footy gods for a key forward. Refer below:

1995 Richard Osborne 53
1996 Jason Watts 44
1997 Simon Minton-Connell 43
1998 Paul Hudson 61
1999 Paul Hudson (2) 51
2000 Rohan Smith 42
2001 Brad Johnson 48
2002 Nathan Brown 57
2003 Nathan Brown (2) 56
2004 Luke Darcy 30
Jade Rawlings
2005 Brad Johnson (2) 42
2006 Brad Johnson (3) 74
2007 Brad Johnson (4) 59
2008 Brad Johnson (5) 50
2009 Jason Akermanis 43
2010 Barry Hall 80
2011 Barry Hall (2) 55
2012 Daniel Giansiracusa 28
2013 Daniel Giansiracusa (2) 36
2014 Stewart Crameri 37
2015 Jake Stringer 56
2016 Jake Stringer (2) 42
2017 Liam Picken 24
Jake Stringer (3)
2018 Billy Gowers 26
2019 Sam Lloyd 38
2020 Mitch Wallis 25

So - basically, since I first bought a membership in 1995, only in 2010 and 2011 were "WE" happy we had a key forward who coculd consistently impact games. Yes, Jonno was reliable for us but I lived through that...aside from those two years, every single season we were looking for the new messiah who would enable him to become a secondary target...

GIVEN THAT. Why in the name of the lord does 'everyone' want to keep shoving Aaron Naughton into the backline?

I DON'T GET IT.

Last week, he was amazing. He was our best player in a critical game interstate against a likely top four team...who played their captain - who had been in amazing form and was BOG himself the week before - on him. He killed him. Yet - just like every single other week - there are calls in the selection thread for him to go back. He is YOUNG. He JUMPS at everything and (at worst) brings the ball to ground. He takes hangers. He applies pressure. He is not the most reliable kick in the world, but he is BY FAR the best forward prospect we have had since I became a member in 1995 (Chris Grant debuted in 1990 so I am not trying to overlook him...he was an established player by then).

AND - just on the Chris Grant experience. He was amazing forward. And amazing back. And MAYBE, if we had left him to play forward during those critical seasons in the late 90's when we were challenging we might have gotten over the line...

I know we are used to having no-one to kick too, but what exactly is it about Naughton that makes everyone think we have someone better just waiting to replace him? I know I've posted about this before but I just cannot get my head around why anyone would want to move him.

[bornadog]

I just cannot get my head around why anyone would want to move him.

Your list of goal kickers just proves what I have been saying all along, you get a great forward and you don't move him.

In my life time of following the club I have seen Kelvin Templeton, Simon Beasley and Chris Grant as the best key forwards to play for the club. Naughton has the potential to be right up there with those greats, although, the way the game is played now, he won't kick 100 goals.

Key back is easier to play than key forward.

[Bulldog Joe]

I am with you on Naughton as a forward.

He is the most athletically gifted player I can recall with size, speed and agility.

If the new sensation of Jamarra Ugle-Hagan can half life up to the hype we will be a nightmare for defenders of every other team.

With the bonus of having a midfield that is very high quality we should be challenging for flags.

[Mofra]

Absolutely spot on.

A KPF who just presents and jumps at everything makes the midfield look so much better - they know there is always a target on the move to kick to which means our whole ball movement process is quicker.

You can actually hide a defence of average players with an excellent system. What do 4 former rookies, one DFA, one PSD pick, and a guy drafted in the 40s have in common?

[Axe Man]

Preaching to the choir here. I have always been in the Naughton forward camp.


What do 4 former rookies, one DFA, one PSD pick, and a guy drafted in the 40s have in common?

Premiership backline?

[GVGjr]

The worst part of the list is that the highest goal kickers each season were in the main were never genuine key forwards
On top of that we spent a significant amount recruiting a highly regarded key forward in Tom Boyd and tried our best to turn him into a ruckman rather than a gun forward.
The Naughton move forward was a real haymaker that not only landed but is very likely to reaps rewards for years to come and this only happened when we finally acknowledged we needed a target up forward.

Adding Bruce and playing English forward might just provide us with an advantage up forward.

[Happy Days]

Im all the way with you on playing Naughton forward. Leading the league in contested marks, on track for 50 goals, and the forward line is looking better than it has in well over a decade.

[Grantysghost]

I think fans look at the defence and imagine him in there, English and Bruce forward and see a more balanced equation?
What he does up forward for mine is so critical id never move him. Defenders meh, they're guys who can't play forward :cool: (yes I played forward and have the scars on the back of my head to prove it).

[1eyedog]

I dunno I'm all for Naughts forward as well even if he doesn't mark it he destroys packs and his ground game is frenetic. Probably got to do with our issue at CHB. I guess some people view saving goals as important as kicking them and if we're in a position to play English and Bruce forward then Naughton is a viable CHB option.

[mjp]

I guess some people view saving goals as important as kicking them...

They're right. But stopping goals is a 18-man job.

Kicking them? One person can turn a game. Naughton's mark last week, Weightman's snap over his head...we need consistent workers in the forward half, but consistent workers who can TURN A GAME. Naughton sitting on top of Jonas sucked the life out of the Power. We have no-one else who could even dream of doing that.

[Mofra]

Premiership backline?
Ding ding ding we have a winner.

Tom Boyd played our of his skin that game and took 6 contested marks. If you look at our team, who would you back in now to take 6 contested marks?

Fletcher Roberts and an immature Joel Hamling, bless them, aren't the types of players opposition coaches put time into but they did the job when it mattered.
A good system can hide defensive personnel inadequacies far more than a deficiencies in the forwardline.

[1eyedog]

They're right. But stopping goals is a 18-man job.

Kicking them? One person can turn a game. Naughton's mark last week, Weightman's snap over his head...we need consistent workers in the forward half, but consistent workers who can TURN A GAME. Naughton sitting on top of Jonas sucked the life out of the Power. We have no-one else who could even dream of doing that.

I fully agree but for shites and giggles what if a Naughton could stop an opposition forward from turning a game? Does it come down to who is the more dangerous forward? Would you throw Naughton back if Tom MacDonald had 6 by half time in a final and we'd already gone through Keath / Cordy / Young / Gardner?

[Rocco Jones]

I agree but I also love the defensive pressure Naughton offers forward. He helps keep it there, which in turn also helps our defence.

[comrade]

Let’s see what happens at the pointy end of the year.

[Happy Days]

I agree but I also love the defensive pressure Naughton offers forward. He helps keep it there, which in turn also helps our defence.

Yeah agree. He’s our best pressure forward and the best one of his size in the league.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Will be interesting to watch the Naughton v King comparison this week.

[Bulldog Joe]

I fully agree but for shites and giggles what if a Naughton could stop an opposition forward from turning a game? Does it come down to who is the more dangerous forward? Would you throw Naughton back if Tom MacDonald had 6 by half time in a final and we'd already gone through Keath / Cordy / Young / Gardner?

The issue would be a midfield problem if any forward does that to us. We need to control the middle and get it forward for Naughton to do his stuff.

If we decide we need to stop the opposition scoring we will be losing the midfield battle, as we did against Richmond in the critical 3rd quarter.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

The issue would be a midfield problem if any forward does that to us. We need to control the middle and get it forward for Naughton to do his stuff.

If we decide we need to stop the opposition scoring we will be losing the midfield battle, as we did against Richmond in the critical 3rd quarter.

That was the time to maybe drop Naughton back for 5 minutes, gain possession and control it for 5 minutes to slow the game down. The pace was hectic and we just couldn't slow it down. We did a much better job of this last week (although not perfect), mostly in the last quarter.

[bornadog]

I fully agree but for shites and giggles what if a Naughton could stop an opposition forward from turning a game? Does it come down to who is the more dangerous forward? Would you throw Naughton back if Tom MacDonald had 6 by half time in a final and we'd already gone through Keath / Cordy / Young / Gardner?

That would be an issue in the midfield not stopping the ball being fed to MacDonald.

[Ozza]

So I agree with the point of the OP. Am firmly in the 'keep Naughton forward camp'. He's just getting better and better as a forward. Seems to be also recognising the moments in games where he has to get all the way into the back half to help us move the ball when we've been stuck in the back half too long.

As I said in another thread - Bruce is on track to kick 66 goals and Naughton 53......they'll likely slow down and/or miss the odd game - but either way - its the contribution from tall forwards we've been looking for.

Jamarra is waiting in the wings and a huge prospect to be this gun key forward in future.

Only thing I didn't agree/understand from the OP was the comment about how if we left Chris Grant forward we may have broken through for a premiership. Grant did play forward in all of the prelim years. He was CHB in 96, and then played forward 97 onwards.

[Mantis]

So I agree with the point of the OP. Am firmly in the 'keep Naughton forward camp'. He's just getting better and better as a forward. Seems to be also recognising the moments in games where he has to get all the way into the back half to help us move the ball when we've been stuck in the back half too long.

As I said in another thread - Bruce is on track to kick 66 goals and Naughton 53......they'll likely slow down and/or miss the odd game - but either way - its the contribution from tall forwards we've been looking for.

Jamarra is waiting in the wings and a huge prospect to be this gun key forward in future.

Only thing I didn't agree/understand from the OP was the comment about how if we left Chris Grant forward we may have broken through for a premiership. Grant did play forward in all of the prelim years. He was CHB in 96, and then played forward 97 onwards.

Yep, strange comment as he was most definitely our CHF from 1997 onwards and only went back when Rhode started (Grant did his knee in his first outing at CHB whilst BOG).. however if Grant played the last 10min of the '97 PF at CHB instead of freezing at the other end of the ground we most probably play the following week.

[The Pie Man]

We all love the Bont, but I haven’t been as excited watching someone like I am with Naughton in a very long time.

Best stretch of forward footy in his career to date, footy gods keep him healthy and he will be amazing for us.

We seem to be after a big to play on the gorillas, which at 1.95 Naughts isn’t anyway.

Watched a bit of first crack last Sunday and David King was pushing for us to play Bruce back. The guy second in the Coleman finally finding a cohesive forward partnership....

[Bulldog4life]

We all love the Bont, but I haven’t been as excited watching someone like I am with Naughton in a very long time.

Best stretch of forward footy in his career to date, footy gods keep him healthy and he will be amazing for us.

We seem to be after a big to play on the gorillas, which at 1.95 Naughts isn’t anyway.

Watched a bit of first crack last Sunday and David King was pushing for us to play Bruce back. The guy second in the Coleman finally finding a cohesive forward partnership....

I saw that too. Ridiculous.

[Topdog]

The calls for Naughton down back are crazy in my opinion.

Not only is he vitally important in the F50 he also provides a crucial get out of jail card for the down the line kick from D50 which we struggle for without him.

He makes going to the footy fun.

[Ghost Dog]

We all love the Bont, but I haven’t been as excited watching someone like I am with Naughton in a very long time.

Best stretch of forward footy in his career to date, footy gods keep him healthy and he will be amazing for us.

We seem to be after a big to play on the gorillas, which at 1.95 Naughts isn’t anyway.

Watched a bit of first crack last Sunday and David King was pushing for us to play Bruce back. The guy second in the Coleman finally finding a cohesive forward partnership....

If he doesn't keep kneeing our own blokes in their noggins....'
I don't applaud marks when one of our own good players is out for multiple weeks, and has to deal with concussion for long periods.
Accidents happen but it's also part of marking craft.

I dunno. Maybe not much can be done. I hope so.

[1eyedog]

The issue would be a midfield problem if any forward does that to us. We need to control the middle and get it forward for Naughton to do his stuff.

If we decide we need to stop the opposition scoring we will be losing the midfield battle, as we did against Richmond in the critical 3rd quarter.


That would be an issue in the midfield not stopping the ball being fed to MacDonald.

Actually no that might not be the case at all. One in a million scenarios might simply be that he's having a day out and that every second time they go in there, he's clunking them and scoring. It's entirely possible that we have similar inside 50 numbers and the game is equally poised with the exception of MacDonald up forward.

So take out the midfield dominance aspect of it. Do you leave Naughton deep forward with no score at half time with MacDonald on 6 goals in the Prelim, or do you move Naughton back onto him? If you back Naughton in up forward then fair enough, you ascribe to the 'he can win a match off his own boot' script, but if you are worried he won't hit the scoreboard in the second half, and you're concerned about Tom MacDonald winning the game up the other end, how much of you wants to send Naughton back in the third?

If you answer you'd send him back then you're not entirely in the leave Naughton forward club.

[DOG GOD]

I dunno I'm all for Naughts forward as well even if he doesn't mark it he destroys packs and his ground game is frenetic. Probably got to do with our issue at CHB. I guess some people view saving goals as important as kicking them and if we're in a position to play English and Bruce forward then Naughton is a viable CHB option.
This is my feeling. I’m not afraid to put my hand up and say I’m one for Naughton in defence, BUT if he was a more reliable kick, then my attitude on this would change. If JUH kicks off like we hope he will, then a fwd line of Naughton, Bruce, English and JUH would surely be too top heavy...A grade sure, but too top heavy.

Our defence. If Keath went down long term we are literally screwed. I certainly don’t want Young, Cordy and Gardner all down there. It’s also probably coz out of those 4, I only rate Keath. I always felt Naughton would’ve been a all Australian CHB with his contested marking ability.

I hope I’m proven wrong, and Naughton fwd takes us to multiple premierships, but I still see our defence without Keath as a car with three wheels. Let’s hope Keath NEVER gets injured.

[Ghost Dog]

I saw that too. Ridiculous.

Has wildly exceeded my expectations of him. If it's working keep going! I Think it was MJP who compared him to a labrador in the 50 last year, very funny I thought and accurate at the time.

[Hotdog60]

Didn't Grant go back about the time he had the yips.

I'm happy with Astro forward but I wouldn't be against the break glass if things go a bit South just to try and get things back our way.
Isn't it just a case of kick a bigger score then the other mob.
I wouldn't worry when Jamarra comes in about being top heavy Bevo will play him in defense. :)

[DOG GOD]

Didn't Grant go back about the time he had the yips.

I'm happy with Astro forward but I wouldn't be against the break glass if things go a bit South just to try and get things back our way.
Isn't it just a case of kick a bigger score then the other mob.
I wouldn't worry when Jamarra comes in about being top heavy Bevo will play him in defense. :)

I wouldn’t put it past him to do that.

[The bulldog tragician]

Ding ding ding we have a winner.

Tom Boyd played our of his skin that game and took 6 contested marks. If you look at our team, who would you back in now to take 6 contested marks?

Fletcher Roberts and an immature Joel Hamling, bless them, aren't the types of players opposition coaches put time into but they did the job when it mattered.
A good system can hide defensive personnel inadequacies far more than a deficiencies in the forwardline.

The premiership forward line was just as wonky on paper. One talented high draft pick forward who was going through a “troubled” period in his life and not selected foe several weeks in the lead up; a bloke whose knees were shot to pieces; two 19 yr olds both with extremely average kicking styles and neither of whom have gone onto be forwards: a rookie who’d transformed himself into a semi crazed forward; and another guy plucked from the reserves at 24. We got so much out of this ragtag bunch. We couldn’t have dreamt such a makeshift forward line when we wished we’d had a power forward.

But they all had to constantly play out of their skins to do so. Naughton just exudes natural talent. He brings everyone to their feet, people through the turnstiles (sounds better than barcodes). And he’s not just a one trick pony, he is aggressive and tackles and chases hard. I just love watching him play.

[The bulldog tragician]

If he doesn't keep kneeing our own blokes in their noggins....'
I don't applaud marks when one of our own good players is out for multiple weeks, and has to deal with concussion for long periods.
Accidents happen but it's also part of marking craft.

I dunno. Maybe not much can be done. I hope so.
How could he have avoided that? He flew, with eyes only for the ball.Our game is inherently dangerous and some of the worst injuries happen in innocuous ways.

[ratsmac]

If Naughts keeps up this form there's no way we move him back. I think he scares the bejesus out of defenders. Opposition coaches would put more time into him than they do Bruce who is a much more mature and established senior player and has kicked more goals.

In saying that I was calling for Naughton to be moved back against Carlton in the 3rd because Weitering was all over him and the game was slipping away at the time. He wasn't getting a sniff. I thought it would be good to get him in the game. Next minute he takes a pack mark and kicks a goal that helped set up our come back. So probably better to leave him forward

[Twodogs]

I think that Naughton is one of only three players that have kicked multiple goals in every game this year. Leave him forward for sure. I haven't been as excited by the way a young Bulldogs player marks in the air, lands on his feet and runs towards goal in my lifetime.

[MrMahatma]

Naughton is a beast up forward. He’s amazing. Most exciting prospect I’ve seen in our colours.

No way you’d move him back.

I recall the Hawks had similar debates about Roughead back in the day. Could’ve played back and kept Buddy up forward.

[Go_Dogs]

Are the calls because people to reinstate premiership CHF Cordy back to that position?

On a serious note, agree with mjp. Naughton forward - all day, everyday. He’s got the swagger, he’s marking and impacting everything and his kicking has largely been reliable. Plus he is a defensive beast once the ball hits the deck.

[Vred]

Naughton never goes back unless it's some injury-filled game and we're up by 30 just trying to run the game out and stop any easy late-goals. Naughton is a forward, for now and forever.

Let's just recruit a solid backman and put it to rest.

[soupman]

Naughton never goes back unless it's some injury-filled game and we're up by 30 just trying to run the game out and stop any easy late-goals. Naughton is a forward, for now and forever.

Let's just recruit a solid backman and put it to rest.

Yeah this is my thinking.

I'll be surprised if we ever go into a game planning on Naughton being in defence for substantial parts of the game. As a mid game stop gap for a short period sure, but not as a proper defender.

[boydogs]

Naughton wasn't that great down back. He was dominated by Jack Riewoldt in the last quarter of the last game in 2018 when Jack kicked 3 to steal the game from us. His strength is attacking the ball in the air, not nullifying an opponent. Good to send him back to stem the tide or defend a lead but forward is his best position

[jeemak]

If he doesn't keep kneeing our own blokes in their noggins....'
I don't applaud marks when one of our own good players is out for multiple weeks, and has to deal with concussion for long periods.
Accidents happen but it's also part of marking craft.

I dunno. Maybe not much can be done. I hope so.

Sorry GD, but as always there's at least one time within a season's worth of posting when I call BS. This is it.

[azabob]

Let’s see what happens at the pointy end of the year.

Are you still 100% in favour of sending Naughton back?

Cal Twomey wrote an article last Saturday prior to the port game detailing how opposition key forwards have gotten ahold of our key backs.

What he and other media have neglected to mention is our three key forwards (Bruce, Naughton, English) have kicked 57 goals compared to 35 goals from the opposition key forwards. It is fair to assume the gap would be bigger if English hadn't missed games through injury.

By moving Naughton back we lose what has been a major strength so far this season.

https://www.afl.com.au/news/612249/who-ll-stop-the-giants-the-dogs-big-problem-with-power-forwards

[comrade]

Are you still 100% in favour of sending Naughton back?

Cal Twomey wrote an article last Saturday prior to the port game detailing how opposition key forwards have gotten ahold of our key backs.

What he and other media have neglected to mention is our three key forwards (Bruce, Naughton, English) have kicked 57 goals compared to 35 goals from the opposition key forwards. It is fair to assume the gap would be bigger if English hadn't missed games through injury.

By moving Naughton back we lose what has been a major strength so far this season.

https://www.afl.com.au/news/612249/who-ll-stop-the-giants-the-dogs-big-problem-with-power-forwards

I'm definitely not as fervent as I was previously, the forward line is purring and Naughton is electric right now so I don't want to move him.

Our lack of intercept marking in defence continues to be our Achilles heel, though. Even against Port, our inability to win back the ball in defence in the 2nd led to a cluster of goals in quick time. You look at Melbourne and they don't have to dominate the midfield in order to keep teams from scoring, their defence just wins it back in the air.

It's a tough one.

If JUH was 2 or 3 years older, I'd be sending back Naughton tomorrow.

[mjp]

Naughton wasn't that great down back. He was dominated by Jack Riewoldt in the last quarter of the last game in 2018 when Jack kicked 3 to steal the game from us.

To be fair, he was like 18 years old and Riewoldt a 200+ game, multiple Coleman winning forward.

[Mofra]

Naughton wasn't that great down back. He was dominated by Jack Riewoldt in the last quarter of the last game in 2018 when Jack kicked 3 to steal the game from us. His strength is attacking the ball in the air, not nullifying an opponent. Good to send him back to stem the tide or defend a lead but forward is his best position
He finished 4th in the B&F as an 18 year old. That's incredible for a KPP

[bornadog]

To be fair, he was like 18 years old and Riewoldt a 200+ game, multiple Coleman winning forward.


He finished 4th in the B&F as an 18 year old. That's incredible for a KPP

As a 19 year old he was the number one contested mark in the compo at FF

[1eyedog]

If Naughts keeps up this form there's no way we move him back. I think he scares the bejesus out of defenders. Opposition coaches would put more time into him than they do Bruce who is a much more mature and established senior player and has kicked more goals.

In saying that I was calling for Naughton to be moved back against Carlton in the 3rd because Weitering was all over him and the game was slipping away at the time. He wasn't getting a sniff. I thought it would be good to get him in the game. Next minute he takes a pack mark and kicks a goal that helped set up our come back. So probably better to leave him forward

Agreed. Weitering put body on him and played him well (although we did ourselves no favours against the Blues with the way we moved the ball i50). You just can't let him run and jump at the ball but he's so athletic that he's almost impossible to constantly track and stop.

[1eyedog]

They're right. But stopping goals is a 18-man job.

Kicking them? One person can turn a game. Naughton's mark last week, Weightman's snap over his head...we need consistent workers in the forward half, but consistent workers who can TURN A GAME. Naughton sitting on top of Jonas sucked the life out of the Power. We have no-one else who could even dream of doing that.

So is kicking them!

[SquirrelGrip]

Agreed. Weitering put body on him and played him well (although we did ourselves no favours against the Blues with the way we moved the ball i50). You just can't let him run and jump at the ball but he's so athletic that he's almost impossible to constantly track and stop.

Weitering played him from behind and just held his ground, marking everything that went over Naughton's head. Hopefully Ash Hansen worked closely with him after that particular game to show how to beat that tactic. On the lead, Weitering couldn't stop him. It's about a team beating opposition back tactics, not just the individual player beating his man.

[mjp]

So is kicking them!

Disagree.

Individual brilliance can 100% kick a goal.

[1eyedog]

Disagree.

Individual brilliance can 100% kick a goal.

We're apart on this. It can save a goal as well ala Roarke Smith.

But, I get what you're saying. There's only a few players who can do something truly special on a footy field and I agree that Naughton is one of them. He should definitely be played forward.

[bornadog]

We're apart on this. It can save a goal as well ala Roarke Smith.

But, I get what you're saying. There's only a few players who can do something truly special on a footy field and I agree that Naughton is one of them. He should definitely be played forward.

Your new Avatar says it all.