Three things you've learned. Round seventeen 2021 v Swans of Sydney

[Twodogs]

So. Three things. Things you didn't know before. Things that you know now though. Write them down below.

[GVGjr]

Bump

[bulldogtragic]

1. If we don’t get the best ruck available this year then we are not serious

2. $600,000 a year for JJ to deliver this output is not something I want to repeat next season

3. When we are off, we are off.

4. I think Mitch Wallis should take any other clubs offer.

[DOG GOD]

1. We look cooked. I said it last week and I’ll say it again
2. JUH shouldn’t have played. Deer in headlights
3. Wallis and Hannan are now VFL players.
4. God we need dunks, Treloar, Martin and Naughton in our 22

[Mutz]

1. Another insipid performance today from the mids and forwards after a sluggish game last week = danger signs. Someone must get the chop to get the fear back into the team.

2. English (re-)learning how to be effective around the ground was great to see. Lots of good marks on the wing and within goal, although kicking 1.2 needs improvement.

3. Young can ruck (as I said last week) and kick goals - that should build his confidence further.

Extra. We smashed the free kick count (28-16) but many "balled" decisions not paid within 20m of our goal.

Bonus. It might be effective but Swans play an ugly brand of footy.

[macca]

1. Our forward line is empty without Naughton. Does anyone know how to lead? Young is total useless in the forward line. He has no physical strength and gets too easily pushed out of the contest. Bruce was 2-1 today, so he had to bring the ball down to ground and in our fwd favour. Hannan rarely is in the contests, and gets pushed off the ball to easily. Our smalls were never in the right positions today. Our goal kicking is atrocious .... sigh...

2. Something was mentally off today. You have to be switched on at this level. Too many mistakes, fumbles. Even the small tackles which go against you, its twice the effort to win the ball back. Our young players in Gracia, Scott, Richards really had to step up today when the senior players were having an off day. Today was a good example of our gap between good and bad efforts showed.

3. Young needs to work out what his weaknesses are. Either work them out ( i.e just don't fall into those traps), or play just to his strengths. Don't throw up your arms and remonstrate when blocked by the defender. Work out a way to push around him. I want him to put on 5 KG of muscle over the season and be as strongest player on the ground. As he is no way a leading forward, or run all day type of KPD. His strengths are his mobility , marking ability ( or read of the flight of the ball) and pinch Ruck are important to the team to cover the ground.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

1. Another insipid performance today from the mids and forwards after a sluggish game last week = danger signs. Someone must get the chop to get the fear back into the team.

2. English (re-)learning how to be effective around the ground was great to see. Lots of good marks on the wing and within goal, although kicking 1.2 needs improvement.

3. Young can ruck (as I said last week) and kick goals - that should build his confidence further.

Extra. We smashed the free kick count (28-16) but many "balled" decisions not paid within 20m of our goal.

Bonus. It might be effective but Swans play an ugly brand of footy.

Young did some ok things but I don’t like his weak attack at the ball. We can only carry one tall like that and it’s English. Don’t know how the biggest guys out there can be so soft in aerial contests. Had a gutful of Englishs’ weak efforts in the ruck. Young is an intercepting defender and not much more.

[merantau]

Tim English will only ever be a pinch hit ruck. He can be good up forward.

Our goal kicking has not got better.

We never looked like it today. If Bont hadn't spent most of his time in the back half we would have been killed.

[Grantysghost]

Young did some ok things but I don’t like his weak attack at the ball. We can only carry one tall like that and it’s English. Don’t know how the biggest guys out there can be so soft in aerial contests. Had a gutful of Englishs’ weak efforts in the ruck. Young is an intercepting defender and not much more.

I'm not sold on Young. He really lacks intensity. Needs more time for sure but I can see why he's struggled to get a game.

[westbulldog]

1. The Bont has broad shoulders but can't carry 10 players around all day.
2. Our small fowards contributed sfa.
3. If we don't improve on this effort Brisbane or Geelong replace us in the top 2.

[Bullies]

I'm not sold on Young. He really lacks intensity. Needs more time for sure but I can see why he's struggled to get a game. Some of his efforts were putrid. That goal he got was not a free. He actually didn't want contact in that contest.

[Bullies]

1. Wallis is well and truly cooked at this level.
2. Look very flat. Have we gone through an increased training load to have us fit for finals. A lot of the top teams seem to go through a flat spot this time of year.
3. The current bottom 6 players we had in the team today won't take us far in the finals. Get our injured players back and it will make a difference.

[comrade]

1. That was a bottom 4-esque forward half performance. I won't hang Marra for it, it's not his fault he was picked and he basically met my expectations anyway. The rest of the forward group...yuck.

2. Our desire to chew off perfect kicks/disposals, especially coming out of defence, was either egotistical (Caleb, looking at you) or due to a lack of work rate to provide the overlap running option or lack of workrate up field to provide a marking target. Probably a mix of all 3.

3. Disappointing we were time machined back to 2019/20 where despite getting the first goal immediately, the red flags were flying everywhere from about 5 mins in. I thought as a group we were past those efforts but obviously not.

[The bulldog tragician]

1. That was a bottom 4-esque forward half performance. I won't hang Marra for it, it's not his fault he was picked and he basically met my expectations anyway. The rest of the forward group...yuck.

2. Our desire to chew off perfect kicks/disposals, especially coming out of defence, was either egotistical (Caleb, looking at you) or due to a lack of work rate to provide the overlap running option or lack of workrate up field to provide a marking target. Probably a mix of all 3.

3. Disappointing we were time machined back to 2019/20 where despite getting the first goal immediately, the red flags were flying everywhere from about 5 mins in. I thought as a group we were past those efforts but obviously not.
We were near a passage of play where Caleb had the ball, Duryea was clear and a good next option, but instead, he kicked to a pack and the ball inevitably ricocheted back in.

[AshMac]

1. Liked the look of Garcia today, always wait a couple of games for a player to form a view, he looks to have a good head on his shoulders under pressure

2. Too many weak performances from our small and mid sized forwards - JJ, Wallis and Hannan are not Top 2 team forwards. In honesty, lucky to stay in it

3. An “almost” game for our no. 1 draft pick. Some encouraging signs to give him a taste and a lot of work to be done - hopefully it’s a step in the right direction attitude, preparation and confidence wise

[The Bulldogs Bite]

1. Marra is a long way off it. Not unexpected, but reality.

2. Williams is horribly out of form and it's going unnoticed.

3. We need everything to go right to have a legit claim to being a contender. Our back half is a real weakness, they just can't hold up to repeat attacks. It means we need Martin, Dunkley, Treloar and probably Wood back (obviously Naughton too) if we're going to be any chance. I probably knew this but our one weapon is our incredible midfield at full strength. Without Dunkley and Treloar, it's not a top 5 midfield group.

[Dry Rot]

1. Liked the look of Garcia today, always wait a couple of games for a player to form a view, he looks to have a good head on his shoulders under pressure



My #1 too.

2. Earlier this season,I posted that the Swans had a really good system of entries into their forward line, and we could learn from them. Some posters here were very dismissive of that post.

Well, I was right and unless we can use a smarter non-bombing way of entering our forward line you can kiss a flag goodbye.

3. I do not know if it is due to pressure or if it is intrinsically true but **** me we play a lot of really dumb football.
An example was the Bont handballing to Cordy of all people to kick forward.

[ratsmac]

1. We can't win the flag this year. I'm not sure if we have the mental resolve for what it takes. Sure we are a few players down but we aren't winning games against fellow contenders which doesn't fill me with confidence let alone the playing group.

2. No Naughton no idea how to kick inside 50. We were stuck between the long high ball and the low long ball which both resulted in no goals for us pretty much.

3. Out coached or out played. Sydney had our measure all over the ground anticipating our every move it seemed and set up for the counter. The swans were really organised today and we weren't. Whether it was players not playing their roles or we weren't up to it tactically, all I know is we sucked.

[comrade]

3. Out coached of out played. Sydney had our measure all over the ground anticipating our every move it seemed and set up for the counter. The swans were really organised today and we weren't. Whether it was players not playing there roles or we weren't up to it tactically, all I know is we sucked.

Swans are a quality outfit and it won't be long until they're at the very pointy end of the competition again. Lots of pace and good kicking.

[SonofScray]

1. On our day we can beat anyone. Our best is better than everyone else’s best. We won’t see enough of our best to win it all.
2. Bevo is reverting to form. The ruck situation is a mess again and our hopes rest on Martin getting fit.
3. Jamarra should get another crack.

[Mantis]

1/ You don’t realise how important one player is to his zone until he’s not there.

2/ Our use of Young is embarrassingly bad.

3/ With players to come back in none of our ‘fringe’ types took their opportunity yesterday and should be ready for a tap on the shoulder.

[macca]

1. On our day we can beat anyone. Our best is better than everyone else’s best. We won’t see enough of our best to win it all.
2. Bevo is reverting to form. The ruck situation is a mess again and our hopes rest on Martin getting fit.
3. Jamarra should get another crack.

I still do not understand why Sweet not played to address the Ruck. Isn’t it better to find out soon whether he can make it against a Team with a half decent ruckman than learning against monsters like Grundy/Natanui/Gawn?
If he is to become out ruckman then we should get more games into him. Amarty was played yesterday with stints fwd.

[Mantis]

I still do not understand why Sweet not played to address the Ruck. Isn’t it better to find out soon whether he can make it against a Team with a half decent ruckman than learning against monsters like Grundy/Natanui/Gawn?
If he is to become out ruckman then we should get more games into him. Amarty was played yesterday with stints fwd.

Amartey played forward with stints in the ruck and had absolutely no influence on the game other than a lucky (gifted) goal.

[comrade]

2/ Our use of Young is embarrassingly bad.


What's the best way to use him?

[westbulldog]

1. We look cooked. I said it last week and I’ll say it again
2. JUH shouldn’t have played. Deer in headlights
3. Wallis and Hannan are now VFL players.
4. God we need dunks, Treloar, Martin and Naughton in our 22

Everyone has to start somewhere. Shane Warne took 1/150 off 45 overs in his first test in 1992.

[Jam Donuts]

1/. If i see next week that we are still giving away free spots in the team to Hannan, JJ, Mitch and a couple of others, i will spew up.

2/. JUH was OK in his first try out, give him another run, even off the bench so he gets used to the speed of the firsts.

3/. I wish intensity and a bit of mongrel was a commodity that could be turned on and off at will, we were flat and slow and plain dumb at times, lets see if we can get the grunt back, especially in the middle.

[bulldogtragic]

Everyone has to start somewhere. Shane Warne took 1/150 off 45 overs in his first test in 1992.

Dead on. Bont debut was 14 touches in a loss to Carlton.

[comrade]

Dead on. Bont debut was 14 touches in a loss to Carlton.

The fact he was in the right spots on multiple occasions is a good sign. The hard hands was completely due to nerves which will ease off the next time he plays. One thing which was obvious to anyone who'd seen him play VFL is that he's not fit enough to contribute defensively in a zone. Was always trailing behind opponents and could rarely get separation.

Ah well, it went as I expected and he'll have learned a lot. I hope he gets another crack with Naughton beside him instead of Wallis or Hannan.

[Mofra]

I still do not understand why Sweet not played to address the Ruck.
In the last two weeks Sweet has been smashed by Rhys Stanley and Tom Campbell. You don't promote a ruck off the back of that.

[bulldogtragic]

The fact he was in the right spots on multiple occasions is a good sign. The hard hands was completely due to nerves which will ease off the next time he plays. One thing which was obvious to anyone who'd seen him play VFL is that he's not fit enough to contribute defensively in a zone. Was always trailing behind opponents and could rarely get separation.

Ah well, it went as I expected and he'll have learned a lot. I hope he gets another crack with Naughton beside him instead of Wallis or Hannan.

Your last point is the key one. He should never have been KPF #2. Schache should’ve played and Jamarra should have had a lesser defender. Did Bevo think Longmire was shitting himself about Hannan and sending his second KPD to him?

[bulldogtragic]

In the last two weeks Sweet has been smashed by Rhys Stanley and Tom Campbell. You don't promote a ruck off the back of that.

Then was taken out of the ruck yesterday. Getting smashed by Gawn seems to have really got to him.

[Mantis]

What's the best way to use him?

In defence with the occasional run in the ruck to cover as required. I guess with no aerial threat in the forward half he was needed in attack, but for someone trying to find his feet at this level, and who is often the first to be dropped, not letting him settle in a position must be difficult.

[Ozza]

Well one thing I've learned is that football supporters are still prone to big reactions on one bad game. A lot of chef's on here too.
"We are cooked. Wallis is cooked. JJ is cooked".

Last time I checked, we are still second on the ladder, 12-4 and still a massive chance to finish either 2nd or even top. We won twice in Perth and were a kick away from beating Geelong in Geelong. We were outplayed significantly yesterday, and were still some chance to win in the last quarter. I like the look of a team that replaces two of the fringe players for Naughton and Dunkley this week.

1. We really missed Naughton's ability to worry the defenders and draw extra defenders in the air....which creates opportunities for the small forwards.....who just couldn't get involved today, which was disappointing.

2. Even Caleb Daniel can have a bad day in terms of decision making and skill execution.

3. I'm not used the the opposition having more of the ball than us.....and its frustrating!

[bornadog]

Well one thing I've learned is that football supporters are still prone to big reactions on one bad game. A lot of chef's on here too.
"We are cooked. Wallis is cooked. JJ is cooked".

Last time I checked, we are still second on the ladder, 12-4 and still a massive chance to finish either 2nd or even top. We won twice in Perth and were a kick away from beating Geelong in Geelong. We were outplayed significantly yesterday, and were still some chance to win in the last quarter. I like the look of a team that replaces two of the fringe players for Naughton and Dunkley this week.

1. We really missed Naughton's ability to worry the defenders and draw extra defenders in the air....which creates opportunities for the small forwards.....who just couldn't get involved today, which was disappointing.

2. Even Caleb Daniel can have a bad day in terms of decision making and skill execution.

3. I'm not used the the opposition having more of the ball than us.....and its frustrating!

Great summary Ozza

[comrade]

Well one thing I've learned is that football supporters are still prone to big reactions on one bad game. A lot of chef's on here too.
"We are cooked. Wallis is cooked. JJ is cooked".

Last time I checked, we are still second on the ladder, 12-4 and still a massive chance to finish either 2nd or even top. We won twice in Perth and were a kick away from beating Geelong in Geelong. We were outplayed significantly yesterday, and were still some chance to win in the last quarter. I like the look of a team that replaces two of the fringe players for Naughton and Dunkley this week.


I'm clinging to the hope that we'll turn into a juggernaut once we have most of our best 22 back but losing to 4 top 8 teams (Richmond at the time) who have been able to starve us of the ball in each loss doesn't bode well for our finals chances.

And I said Wally was cooked as an AFL player in our system in round 2 this year, nothing I've seen since changes that opinion.

[Happy Days]

I'm clinging to the hope that we'll turn into a juggernaut once we have most of our best 22 back but losing to 4 top 8 teams (Richmond at the time) who have been able to starve us of the ball in each loss doesn't bode well for our finals chances.

And I said Wally was cooked as an AFL player in our system in round 2 this year, nothing I've seen since changes that opinion.

I actually called Wallis as cooked as he was leading our goal kicking, which I feel like is the sort of bravery that shouldn’t go unnoticed.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

It's funny. With all the hype around adding Darcy to our vaunted forward-line, I had thought that area of the ground was covered for a decade. But simply not having Naughton down there made it look awful. I couldn't believe how non-competitive we were in the air yesterday. Was it a cohesion thing or are English, Young and Bruce just hopeless at competing in the air when Naughton isn't there to take 3 defenders away from them.

[1eyedog]

Well one thing I've learned is that football supporters are still prone to big reactions on one bad game. A lot of chef's on here too.
"We are cooked. Wallis is cooked. JJ is cooked".

Last time I checked, we are still second on the ladder, 12-4 and still a massive chance to finish either 2nd or even top. We won twice in Perth and were a kick away from beating Geelong in Geelong. We were outplayed significantly yesterday, and were still some chance to win in the last quarter. I like the look of a team that replaces two of the fringe players for Naughton and Dunkley this week.

1. We really missed Naughton's ability to worry the defenders and draw extra defenders in the air....which creates opportunities for the small forwards.....who just couldn't get involved today, which was disappointing.

2. Even Caleb Daniel can have a bad day in terms of decision making and skill execution.

3. I'm not used the the opposition having more of the ball than us.....and its frustrating!

Who have we beaten? Port Adelaide? Richmond, Geelong and Melbourne beat up Port Adelaide at home they truly are a 5-6 team.

Our win / loss ratio against top 8 sides is ordinary to say the least. Geelong and Melbourne easily accounted for Port at home and we got Brisbane early in Ballarat. West Coast were putrid and have been for a month. Loses to Melbourne, Richmond, Sydney and Geelong have me feeling we are a 4-6 team and that's where we'll finish.

It remains to be seen how much better we can be with Dunkley, Treloar and Marin in the side.

[Ozza]

Who have we beaten? Port Adelaide? Richmond, Geelong and Melbourne beat up Port Adelaide at home they truly are a 5-6 team.

Our win / loss ratio against top 8 sides is ordinary to say the least. Geelong and Melbourne easily accounted for Port at home and we got Brisbane early in Ballarat. West Coast were putrid and have been for a month. Loses to Melbourne, Richmond, Sydney and Geelong have me feeling we are a 4-6 team and that's where we'll finish.

It remains to be seen how much better we can be with Dunkley, Treloar and Marin in the side.

Well....we we 6-0 with them IN the side.

I'm really over the need to qualify every performance as a team and for the individuals. All the reasons why our wins weren't that good, and how Bruce's goals don't count against North or in last quarters, or late in quarters or whatever. I'm sure if we were playing Richmond this week and won - it doesn't count, because they aren't good anymore. West Coast in West Coast after quarantining for a week doesn't count because they aren't good anymore....but it did count before the game because they'd just got all their players back. But it doesn't count now. Port in Port did count at the time, but it doesn't anymore because they lost to Melbourne.

Every game is hard to win in this competition. To win 12 out of 16 is really good. Injuries happen to every side, but eventually an injury list like ours takes a toll in the form of a down game - and we hit that wall this week against a side that is going really well (remember the Swans beat West Coast by 100 last week......oh wait - that doesn't count because West Coast are not good anymore and it isn't a leap year and that game was at Geelong on a Sunday).

We are absolutely desperate as a supporter group to sh1t on the team. I hear it at the games, I see it on here - and it drives me nuts.

The team absolutely show up and have a dip every week. They are a young team, but they are winning 75% of the time, are getting back 3 A Graders soon and are a chance to win the flag. How many years in our lifetimes have we been one of the teams that can win it?

[comrade]

Well....we we 6-0 with them IN the side.

I'm really over the need to qualify every performance as a team and for the individuals. All the reasons why our wins weren't that good, and how Bruce's goals don't count against North or in last quarters, or late in quarters or whatever. I'm sure if we were playing Richmond this week and won - it doesn't count, because they aren't good anymore. West Coast in West Coast after quarantining for a week doesn't count because they aren't good anymore....but it did count before the game because they'd just got all their players back. But it doesn't count now. Port in Port did count at the time, but it doesn't anymore because they lost to Melbourne.

Every game is hard to win in this competition. To win 12 out of 16 is really good. Injuries happen to every side, but eventually an injury list like ours takes a toll in the form of a down game - and we hit that wall this week against a side that is going really well (remember the Swans beat West Coast by 100 last week......oh wait - that doesn't count because West Coast are not good anymore and it isn't a leap year and that game was at Geelong on a Sunday).

We are absolutely desperate as a supporter group to sh1t on the team. I hear it at the games, I see it on here - and it drives me nuts.

The team absolutely show up and have a dip every week. They are a young team, but they are winning 75% of the time, are getting back 3 A Graders soon and are a chance to win the flag. How many years in our lifetimes have we been one of the teams that can win it?

Sydney also lost to Hawthorn and Port in the weeks proceeding. They weren't going THAT well and it's absolutely a game we should never have dropped at home.

Also, the perspective on results should change with more context. The WC win is nowhere near as good in hindsight.

Injuries are biting and we are are doing fine but could be doing better. Yesterday's effort was unacceptable.

[bornadog]

Well....we we 6-0 with them IN the side.

I'm really over the need to qualify every performance as a team and for the individuals. All the reasons why our wins weren't that good, and how Bruce's goals don't count against North or in last quarters, or late in quarters or whatever. I'm sure if we were playing Richmond this week and won - it doesn't count, because they aren't good anymore. West Coast in West Coast after quarantining for a week doesn't count because they aren't good anymore....but it did count before the game because they'd just got all their players back. But it doesn't count now. Port in Port did count at the time, but it doesn't anymore because they lost to Melbourne.

Every game is hard to win in this competition. To win 12 out of 16 is really good. Injuries happen to every side, but eventually an injury list like ours takes a toll in the form of a down game - and we hit that wall this week against a side that is going really well (remember the Swans beat West Coast by 100 last week......oh wait - that doesn't count because West Coast are not good anymore and it isn't a leap year and that game was at Geelong on a Sunday).

We are absolutely desperate as a supporter group to sh1t on the team. I hear it at the games, I see it on here - and it drives me nuts.

The team absolutely show up and have a dip every week. They are a young team, but they are winning 75% of the time, are getting back 3 A Graders soon and are a chance to win the flag. How many years in our lifetimes have we been one of the teams that can win it?

I feel exactly the same as you.

Sydney have a pretty good record this year beating Brisbane, Geelong, Richmond (round 3), and losing to Port by 10, and Melbourne by 9.

No game is easy and can't be compared to other games as a comparison. We are 4/4 against top 4 sides and really the Geelong loss by a goal on the siren could have been the other way.

I will take 2nd on the ladder with only 4 losses (no thrashings) and with good players to come back anytime.

Melbourne have lost to Adelaide, Collingwood and GWS - does that mean they are no good sitting on top of the ladder?

The proof will be in the pudding at seasons end.

[comrade]

And let's not get hyperbolic. No one is sh**ing on the team here.

[Happy Days]

Sydney are legit. They won that Port game on points if not actually on the scoreboard, and as illogical as the Hawks loss was they also bashed up Brisbane (at the Gabba) and the Cats. They’re a well coached and talented side, and a three goal loss to them with the competition’s best key forward and one of its best mids to come in next week is not a disaster.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I tipped Sydney as I knew they'd set themselves for this game, and our form v Norf (and energy levels mainly) had me thinking we were ripe for the picking. Naughton out compounded that.

Having said all that, our inability to deny them their simple chip kicks from deep D50 was putrid and I didn't like our team selection.

We are better than Sydney, we'll get better in the coming weeks, but I think it's obvious to win it all we need more to go right for us than perhaps Melbourne/Geelong/Brisbane. By that, I'm speaking to player availability - it shouldn't be a surprise we are tested without Dunkley, Treloar, Martin, Wood, Naughton etc.

[Mantis]

I tipped Sydney as I knew they'd set themselves for this game, and our form v Norf (and energy levels mainly) had me thinking we were ripe for the picking. Naughton out compounded that.

Having said all that, our inability to deny them their simple chip kicks from deep D50 was putrid and I didn't like our team selection.

We are better than Sydney, we'll get better in the coming weeks, but I think it's obvious to win it all we need more to go right for us than perhaps Melbourne/Geelong/Brisbane. By that, I'm speaking to player availability - it shouldn't be a surprise we are tested without Dunkley, Treloar, Martin, Wood, Naughton etc.

It was truly depressing how easily Sydney moved the ball through our offensive 'zone' .. if that's what you call it.

I was super impressed with how difficult we made ball movement for WC over there a few weeks back, but the last 2 weeks has been a step back to the past... and whilst I gave them a leave pass for it last week, we simply can't dish that up and expect to beat decent-good opposition.

[GVGjr]

Well....we we 6-0 with them IN the side.

I'm really over the need to qualify every performance as a team and for the individuals. All the reasons why our wins weren't that good, and how Bruce's goals don't count against North or in last quarters, or late in quarters or whatever. I'm sure if we were playing Richmond this week and won - it doesn't count, because they aren't good anymore. West Coast in West Coast after quarantining for a week doesn't count because they aren't good anymore....but it did count before the game because they'd just got all their players back. But it doesn't count now. Port in Port did count at the time, but it doesn't anymore because they lost to Melbourne.

Every game is hard to win in this competition. To win 12 out of 16 is really good. Injuries happen to every side, but eventually an injury list like ours takes a toll in the form of a down game - and we hit that wall this week against a side that is going really well (remember the Swans beat West Coast by 100 last week......oh wait - that doesn't count because West Coast are not good anymore and it isn't a leap year and that game was at Geelong on a Sunday).

We are absolutely desperate as a supporter group to sh1t on the team. I hear it at the games, I see it on here - and it drives me nuts.

The team absolutely show up and have a dip every week. They are a young team, but they are winning 75% of the time, are getting back 3 A Graders soon and are a chance to win the flag. How many years in our lifetimes have we been one of the teams that can win it?

We got beaten by a better team on the day but I understand why people get frustrated. We are however, a top side this year and have done exceptionally well.

There were a number of positives yesterday but surely on a footy forum it's still OK for people to dissect the game in whatever manner they choose. Or we can keep using soft excuses like 'the team was flat' that isn't overly critical but I'm OK reading the thoughts of others especially when they go into some details to explain their views.

FWIW, I haven't read too many overly emotional responses.

There seems to be some double standards at times which frustrates me, last year it seems like a dozen players were potted because of a perceived weight issues but if anyone is critical of a players actual form then that is a bridge too far for some people to read.

[Happy Days]

It was truly depressing how easily Sydney moved the ball through our offensive 'zone' .. if that's what you call it.

I was super impressed with how difficult we made ball movement for WC over there a few weeks back, but the last 2 weeks has been a step back to the past... and whilst I gave them a leave pass for it last week, we simply can't dish that up and expect to beat decent-good opposition.

The first kick “out” of defence to the wing was just there for them all day, and is probably directly attributable to the lack of heat put on the kick. Was just not the right mix of forwards selected.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

The first kick “out” of defence to the wing was just there for them all day, and is probably directly attributable to the lack of heat put on the kick. Was just not the right mix of forwards selected.

I blame the coaching group for that. It wasn't like Sydney were blitzing through us with pace, we just stood off them for the WHOLE game and allowed them space.

Sydney clearly went to work on how we set up and how to transition the ball against us. For whatever reason, we refused to adjust our set-up.

[mjp]

Well....we we 6-0 with them IN the side.

I'm really over the need to qualify every performance as a team and for the individuals. All the reasons why our wins weren't that good, and how Bruce's goals don't count against North or in last quarters, or late in quarters or whatever.



I'm sure the part about Bruce is directed at me. I'm equally sure the rest of it isn't about me but I am going to continue to talk about Josh Bruce and what I consider his perpetual under-performing since he joined the club.

Why? Because yesterday - when Naughton was out we desperately needed him to stand up - he provided us with a little less than nothing. I know everyone is "coming around" to Bruce but I'm just not. After his performances in 2020 I am not prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt - this might be a blind-spot for me but I am battling to get past it. I'm NOT impressed when he beats up North or kicks goals in junk time in losses. I'm NOT.

I get what you are saying - it is hard to kick AFL goals, regardless of who you are playing against or what time of the game it is. But I think it is OK to look past the numbers and see what is happening when (and where)...it is like Simon Atkins racking up 40-possession games in 80+ point losses...does it move the needle at ALL in terms of team performance.

Anyway, I agree with a lot of your points re- "The Sky isn't Falling" and I was fine with yesterday's game 'overall'. But I think it's OK for some targeted ranting that doesn't throw out the baby with the bathwater.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I've been sticking up for Bruce this year but I was very disappointed in him yesterday. Offered us nothing up forward. He's the veteran forward and he needs to play like one.

Our forward line was overall garbage though. We bombed it into massive packs all day. I wasn't at the game so it was hard to tell, but did anyone make any leads?

[Happy Days]

Yesterday was his most disappointing outing for sure, but it’s disingenuous to say he isn’t having an excellent season and has been good in “real” games as well as that one time against North (was excellent against Geelong and we straight up lose to Carlton without him).

[1eyedog]

Well....we we 6-0 with them IN the side.

I'm really over the need to qualify every performance as a team and for the individuals. All the reasons why our wins weren't that good, and how Bruce's goals don't count against North or in last quarters, or late in quarters or whatever. I'm sure if we were playing Richmond this week and won - it doesn't count, because they aren't good anymore. West Coast in West Coast after quarantining for a week doesn't count because they aren't good anymore....but it did count before the game because they'd just got all their players back. But it doesn't count now. Port in Port did count at the time, but it doesn't anymore because they lost to Melbourne.

Every game is hard to win in this competition. To win 12 out of 16 is really good. Injuries happen to every side, but eventually an injury list like ours takes a toll in the form of a down game - and we hit that wall this week against a side that is going really well (remember the Swans beat West Coast by 100 last week......oh wait - that doesn't count because West Coast are not good anymore and it isn't a leap year and that game was at Geelong on a Sunday).

We are absolutely desperate as a supporter group to sh1t on the team. I hear it at the games, I see it on here - and it drives me nuts.

The team absolutely show up and have a dip every week. They are a young team, but they are winning 75% of the time, are getting back 3 A Graders soon and are a chance to win the flag. How many years in our lifetimes have we been one of the teams that can win it?

I'm ecstatic we are 12/4 and sit second on the ladder but also note there are some worrying signs, both at MC level and how we respond when we are challenged on game day. The first six games we played Collingwood, the Eagles at home, Norf, Brisbane in Ballarat, the Suns and the Giants. No world beaters there. I get that you can only win against who you play but the first 6 games certainly weren't a good indicator to determine who were the really good teams or how we compared against them. We've won far harder matches without Dunks and Ads. Credit to the group.

I certainly agree you can choose to go glass half empty / half full on our past performances e.g. West Coast had a lot of quality come back in when we played them / they were poor on the day because they were all underdone. I'm not shitting on us I'm just trying to extrapolate our current form lines across all past games, who we had available and how do I reconcile that internally in order to make top 4 predictions moving forward (because I'll be thinking about that all week). Like we all are.

Some fans are worriers and tend to focus more on the areas where we can be better rather than what we get right. I worry more when we drop games in the last quarter of the year when we are in a strong position because of the very reason you finished your excellent post with. We don't get many opportunities to be in this position, so it's all the more critical that we make the most of every opportunity when we have it.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I pretty much judge us based on our last game. I'm not saying I expect the trend to continue, but typically right after a game, you're gonna get emotions and statements that resemble that game.

The last 2 games have looked very similar. Low intensity and effort and allowing the opposition easy transition. Yesterday was compounded with a dysfunctional forward line.

Do I think that's how our season will go from now on? No. Do I think we'll just step up and resolve our problems come finals time? No. It's going to be somewhere in the middle. Whether that's good enough to go all the way remains to be seen.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I think there's certainly fatigue settling in with the group. Despite 2 wins, our last 2 VFL games have been fairly ordinary as well, especially from AFL-listed players.

[bornadog]

I've been sticking up for Bruce this year but I was very disappointed in him yesterday. Offered us nothing up forward. He's the veteran forward and he needs to play like one.

Our forward line was overall garbage though. We bombed it into massive packs all day. I wasn't at the game so it was hard to tell, but did anyone make any leads?

Some contradictions here? If we bombed it in long, what did we expect Bruce to do in the middle of a pack? He can either try and mark it (which he did try and he is no Naughton), or bring it to ground for our smalls. The smalls just didn't perform.

Swans tactics were to crowd our F50, then get it out quickly by switching the play and taking it up the other end, and it worked.

There were times we locked the ball in for more than 5 minutes, but we just couldn't score.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Some contradictions here? If we bombed it in long, what did we expect Bruce to do in the middle of a pack? He can either try and mark it (which he did try and he is no Naughton), or bring it to ground for our smalls. The smalls just didn't perform.

Swans tactics were to crowd our F50, then get it out quickly by switching the play and taking it up the other end, and it worked.

There were times we locked the ball in for more than 5 minutes, but we just couldn't score.

No I'm saying we bombed it in because our forwards weren't really offering anything. So many times they were all just standing in the same area of the ground. And I can't recall many times where I saw Bruce at the front of a pack. I saw Marra and Young more than I did Bruce. He was often at the back.

[Mofra]

I'm pretty sure if you add 3 A grade players into any AFL side, they become a lot better very quickly.

Dunkley and Naughton will be back sooner rather than later. Go I hope Treloar is back for finals.

[DOG GOD]

The first kick “out” of defence to the wing was just there for them all day, and is probably directly attributable to the lack of heat put on the kick. Was just not the right mix of forwards selected.
This didn’t just happen against Sydney. It happens every friggin week. We stand off and allow the opposition easy access to the wing (if they kick well). It frustrates me no end.

[DOG GOD]

I pretty much judge us based on our last game. I'm not saying I expect the trend to continue, but typically right after a game, you're gonna get emotions and statements that resemble that game.

The last 2 games have looked very similar. Low intensity and effort and allowing the opposition easy transition. Yesterday was compounded with a dysfunctional forward line.

Do I think that's how our season will go from now on? No. Do I think we'll just step up and resolve our problems come finals time? No. It's going to be somewhere in the middle. Whether that's good enough to go all the way remains to be seen.

Totally agree. I saw worrying signs against NM. When they can kick 4.8 in the last quarter, either we weren’t mentally there or so fatigued we couldn’t combat it. Watching Macrae yesterday, I saw him sucking in the big ones 3 mins into the 3rd quarter, after sitting on his ass for 20 mins at half time. He was like running on a treadmill.

We had no run and carry, and our fwd line looked as bad as I’ve seen. JJ, Hannan, Marra and Wallis were all liabilities. Make no mistake of that. Naughton cant change that alone. We need a massive improvement in this set up if we are to win finals.

English cannot ruck alone. At least Sweet gives our team balance and structure, allowing English to play fwd. The 3 headed monster worked so well early. It needs to make a comeback.

[The bulldog tragician]

1. Surprisingly given how it felt on the day, we won contested possessions. I will leave it to more seasoned observers to analyse what that means…my take was they chipped, chipped, chipped … we still maintained a good attack on the ball when it got congested, but they denied those chances.

2. It was significant that Hunter had a relatively quiet day (17 disposals - less than Tim English!). We rarely got overlap. We were so strong early in the year with Treloar and Dunkley in great form. The midfield load isn’t shared around enough.

3. This is a very even year. Being slightly off is enough for a loss on any day and Sydney are hardly easy eats. Each of the top four teams have had disappointing losses, but I think ours have been far more attributable to injury. If we finally have a full list we are still a great chance this year.

Have to do 4: our forward line is so boring without Naughton.

[bornadog]

1. Surprisingly given how it felt on the day, we won contested possessions.

If you look at the stats, we had 20 more clearances including smashing them in the centre 15 to 3.

We wasted our opportunities going forward by not delivering the ball well.

If Naughton played he would have snagged 10 marks.

[Bullies]

I think there's certainly fatigue settling in with the group. Despite 2 wins, our last 2 VFL games have been fairly ordinary as well, especially from AFL-listed players. Is that because they are going through a heavy training load leading up to the finals maybe? A lot of the top teams are dropping games they are expected to win this time of year.

[comrade]

Is that because they are going through a heavy training load leading up to the finals maybe? A lot of the top teams are dropping games they are expected to win this time of year.

I think it's just a long season and injuries caught up with us. We still should have beaten Sydney at home regardless, but if you're off 5-10%, you're cooked against even a decent side.

[Mantis]

I think it's just a long season and injuries caught up with us. We still should have beaten Sydney at home regardless, but if you're off 5-10%, you're cooked against even a decent side.

You can clearly see our mids are fatigued. Bont, Macrae & Libba have carried a big load over the past 5-6 weeks with little support and it's starting to show... Dunks & Treloar can't come back quick enough.

[GVGjr]

You can clearly see our mids are fatigued. Bont, Macrae & Libba have carried a big load over the past 5-6 weeks with little support and it's starting to show... Dunks & Treloar can't come back quick enough.

I wonder if it might have been worth sticking with Lipinski and playing West to see if they could have helped share the load a bit better.

[Mantis]

I wonder if it might have been worth sticking with Lipinski and playing West to see if they could have helped share the load a bit better.

Every time Lipinski has been thrown the challenge to feature in our centre square rotation he has failed to take it. Bevo gave him chances and as soon as he faltered he was removed... maybe he needs to show faith, but Bevo has shown if certain players fail to grasp their opportunity they struggle to get many more.

Not sure West has many qualities that make him a viable AFL midfielder either.

[meenies]

with so many of the finals-bound teams losing this weekend, are we seeing these teams in a peak training phase to set new performance levels before tapering and freshening up for the finals? Anyone got insight to what we are doing at training - number of days, drills, time on track? Or is this not done anymore?

[jeemak]

with so many of the finals-bound teams losing this weekend, are we seeing these teams in a peak training phase to set new performance levels before tapering and freshening up for the finals? Anyone got insight to what we are doing at training - number of days, drills, time on track? Or is this not done anymore?

I was thinking about this the other day, remembering Aker shat the bed and told everyone we were tapering off when he shouldn't have and that was pretty much the moment that triggered the entire club's hate at him.

So in light of that, it might be happening and nobody will dare admit it if it is! :)

From what I watched we didn't work hard enough to run in transition and we zoned narrowly and allowed easy wide possession. We did it the week before as well. We can talk all we like about winning centre clearances etc. and whatever else, but when you get doubled in uncontested marks and match it with shitty defence you're *!*!*!*!ed.

[boydogs]

1. Garcia is Dahlhaus mach II
2. Our forward line looks impotent sans Naughton
3. Sydney's older brigade have still got it

[FrediKanoute]

1. On any given day if you are not on, you are beatable - we weren't on
2. If you have a forward line with a lot of passengers then sometimes the bus will leave without them - our passengers missed the bus on Sunday
3. JUH has what it takes to be a star.....it will take some time to shine