Three things you've learned. Round 22, 2021 v Hawthorn at Tassie

[Twodogs]

Three things, go for it

[bulldogtragic]

1. I’m ashamed after that
2. Something seems seriously wrong a5 the club to explain this
3. Three more losses are coming
4. We need to trade JJ and his $600,000 salary
5. We need to recruit 2 rucks
6. We need a replacement for Bruce, such as Tom Lynch
7. I’d be open to trading Bailey Smith
8. What a waste of 19 games to get primed for top spot and now going straight sets
9. Hannan is a fumble merchant
10. Our mids don’t like defending
11. Bevo doesn’t seem to counter move the oppo coach
12. We pick and choose when to go
13. Under pressure, we tend to crack

[Vred]

1. Sack Bevo
2. Sack assistant coaches
3. recruit a *!*!*!*!ing ruckman.

[Testekill]

1. Something is rotten in the suburb of Footscray

2. Wood needs to fall on his sword and retire; he's cooked and he was never a defender that relied on intelligent positioning to win contests. Without his athleticism he's nothing.

3. Bevo's postition is dangerously becoming untenable, another embarassing finals and he's got to be in the gun.

[AshMac]

1. It’s a long season full of uncertainty and it looks like it’s taking its toll

2. We’ve made two mid table teams look too 4 in consecutive weeks with a weak and uninspired contest on the ball

3. Blown the best chance we’ve ever had of a minor premiership - chance we could be playing round 1 finals in Geelong or Adelaide

[DOG GOD]

1. Our fwd set up is the worst of the top 8
2. We will be lucky to win another game in 2021
3. If Bevo won’t play a #1 ruck, then find a coach who will

4. Hard to believe there’s a 90% chance we will finish 5th.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

1. We've run the gauntlet the last couple of weeks bringing in guys underdone from long absences, Dunkley, Treloar and Vandermeer. This hasn't worked. Let's hope it's not a sunk cost, and they hit their straps next week.
2. We're usually at our best backs to the wall, amazing to think that we should still have a good chance of securing a top 4 spot but be in such an underdog position, but two losses in consecutive weeks - and the manner they occurred, makes that a reality.
3. Our vulnerabilities are on display when our midfield can't do the job that is tasked of them. They simply must show some defensive accountability at centre bounces next week.

[whythelongface]

1. Sack Bevo
2. Sack assistant coaches
3. recruit a *!*!*!*!ing ruckman.

Geez I know we are all pissed but why would you sack Bevo? Who would you replace him with?

[Vred]

Geez I know we are all pissed but why would you sack Bevo? Who would you replace him with?


A coach who will play a ruckman and not go into a game with a mentality to ''well lets just HOPE to half the ruck contest''. Not. Lets go in with the mindset of WINNING the ruck contest, and not throwing our A grade mid fielders in there, like Bont and Macrae.

It's madness. His had 5 seasons to get this sorted and it's still the thing holding us back the most.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

A coach who will play a ruckman and not go into a game with a mentality to ''well lets just HOPE to half the ruck contest''. Not. Lets go in with the mindset of WINNING the ruck contest, and not throwing our A grade mid fielders in there, like Bont and Macrae.

It's madness. His had 5 seasons to get this sorted and it's still the thing holding us back the most.

I don't think it's as simple as that.
Yep we should have more ruck depth. That's not actually on Bevo. That's on Power and the recruiting team.
When you hear Bevo speak, he also acknowledges the importance of the ruck role. But without options his hands are tied. And therefore he's left to try and find a way to limit our weakness in that area. For the most part of the season that's worked, because our mids have worked hard to mitigate. They've not done that the past two weeks.

[bulldogtragic]

I don't think it's as simple as that.
Yep we should have more ruck depth. That's not actually on Bevo. That's on Power and the recruiting team.
When you hear Bevo speak, he also acknowledges the importance of the ruck role. But without options his hands are tied. And therefore he's left to try and find a way to limit our weakness in that area. For the most part of the season that's worked, because our mids have worked hard to mitigate. They've not done that the past two weeks.

I see it the other way. Power will recruit players if Bevo will play them. If Bevo won’t play them, recruiting them is illogical. This predates Power to include JMac. Bevo has wanted to bend the will of the comp to play just one ruck and for a while there was some traction. Interviews at the time said there was a specialist committee of coaches, Dalrymple and JMac discussing what the league would do with rules and potentially going to ‘last touched’ and thus reduce ruck contest by 50%. He’s gone is with a skinny kid in Tim and Dunks (nearly losing him) and a bunch of poor options. Rucks have been traded so freely over the passed few years and the best we did was a 34yo injury plagued one whose only played 6.5 games.

The argument that it gives us an extra mid which makes us quicker and more skilled can be made.

But JMac who I don’t rate and Power who I do rate are not the impediment to getting better rucks or any rucks.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I see it the other way. Power will recruit players if Bevo will play them. If Bevo won’t play them, recruiting them is illogical. This predates Power to include JMac. Bevo has wanted to bend the will of the comp to play just one ruck and for a while there was some traction. Interviews at the time said there was a specialist committee of coaches, Dalrymple and JMac discussing what the league would do with rules and potentially going to ‘last touched’ and thus reduce ruck contest by 50%. He’s gone is with a skinny kid in Tim and Dunks (nearly losing him) and a bunch of poor options. Rucks have been traded so freely over the passed few years and the best we did was a 34yo injury plagued one whose only played 6.5 games.

The argument that it gives us an extra mid which makes us quicker and more skilled can be made.

But JMac who I don’t rate and Power who I do rate are not the impediment to getting better rucks or any rucks.


I've not heard anything from Bevo that would suggest he doesn't rate a ruckman that fits in with his preferred game plan. So I think Power would've had his blessing to try and find a ruckman that fits the profile for the game plan Bevo wants to employ.
I have no information as to whether we've tried to recruit other ruckmen .
I am confident that the 'Dunks in ruck' stuff has been overplayed. I don't think that was Bevo's go to.. rather a mitigation tactic.

I don't think Power is an impediment to getting better rucks and I am really confident, at least in the last 2 years that Bevo would've relished recruiting a ruckman that could fit in and augment the list build and game plan we currently have.

[bulldogtragic]

Not sure we will change each other’s minds. I do think we agree we need to get active. I think we need to get two rucks and move Tim’s magnet to ‘forward’.

[comrade]

Bevo would definitely be having significant input on who we trade in, every coach does.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Not sure we will change each other’s minds. I do think we agree we need to get active. I think we need to get two rucks and move Tim’s magnet to ‘forward’.

100% in agreement with that.

Given our list profile, there might be a really hard conversation to be had in coming weeks about whether or not we go chips in on Darcy or prioritise addressing the ruck dilemma, and it really is a dilemma, no doubt.
Darcy doesn't help us for 3-4 years potentially.
We're in a big window right now and our work in centre square is the one thing that is holding back our game plan and potentially a shot at a premiership.

I know you are open to Bailey Smith being expendable if a great offer came our way.
I contend Bailey Smith is out of form ( that's still a thing isn't it? Even Chris Grant was out of form) but his talent and upside is undeniable and a massive part of our game plan holding water.
He's not for sale from my perspective, he, as a 20 yr old, needs to work on his deficiencies. I think its more likely than not, he can do this.

If we don't try and move him on, what other things could we do to get adequate ruck support in? Can we do this and still acquire Darcy?

[bulldogtragic]

100% in agreement with that.

Given our list profile, there might be a really hard conversation to be had in coming weeks about whether or not we go chips in on Darcy or prioritise addressing the ruck dilemma, and it really is a dilemma, no doubt.
Darcy doesn't help us for 3-4 years potentially.
We're in a big window right now and our work in centre square is the one thing that is holding back our game plan and potentially a shot at a premiership.

I know you are open to Bailey Smith being expendable if a great offer came our way.
I contend Bailey Smith is out of form ( that's still a thing isn't it? Even Chris Grant was out of form) but his talent and upside is undeniable and a massive part of our game plan holding water.
He's not for sale from my perspective, he, as a 20 yr old, needs to work on his deficiencies. I think its more likely than not, he can do this.

If we don't try and move him on, what other things could we do to get adequate ruck support in? Can we do this and still acquire Darcy?

It depends on if we go aggressive as my last essay advocates. If so, we get Darcy and have the option to trade two first rounders. Every week on Ed Richards seems less likely and for me if a great offer on Smith came in I’d do it. The key being a great deal. We have options.

If Tim moves to forward covering for Bruce. Then I’d say the best ruck we can get plus another ruck. Darcy would be 4th in line. I’m not certain that Sweet is a part of the plans anymore. Since Gawn go in his head, he’s looked absolutely shot.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Bevo would definitely be having significant input on who we trade in, every coach does.

Agree. But what info do we have that says he hasn't been favourable to recruiting one? It's frustrating, but we are just not the destination choice for many recruitable players.

[Grantysghost]

Agree. But what info do we have that says he hasn't been favourable to recruiting one? It's frustrating, but we are just not the destination choice for many recruitable players.

Hickey grinds my gears a bit.

He went for a bag of chips and has really been a fantastic pick up for the Swans and at 30 fits our "window" perfectly.

No idea if we had a crack we may have as you have alluded to.

[comrade]

Agree. But what info do we have that says he hasn't been favourable to recruiting one? It's frustrating, but we are just not the destination choice for many recruitable players.

We’ve recently picked up key players in Keath and Bruce, plus attracted Hannan and Martin. That’s 4 players in 2 years from other clubs so as a destination, I think we’re ok. If the ruck situation was clearly seen by Bevo as being fatal to our premiership chances the last 2-3 years, we would have bolstered the role.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Didn't see it.
Didn't read all posts.
Don't have sense of the game.
1. We need to refind our self esteem.
2. Who cares about Clarkson's Hawks in Hobart?
No finals played there.
3. Room for wondering if our collective focus has already shifted to finals.

[bulldogtragic]

We’ve recently picked up key players in Keath and Bruce, plus attracted Hannan and Martin. That’s 4 players in 2 years from other clubs so as a destination, I think we’re ok. If the ruck situation was clearly seen by Bevo as being fatal to our premiership chances the last 2-3 years, we would have bolstered the role.

There’s been heaps too. Hickey, Pruess x 2, Vardy, Zac Smith, Ryder, etc, etc.

While exiting Roughead, Campbell, JT. Never replaced our divets.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

We’ve recently picked up key players in Keath and Bruce, plus attracted Hannan and Martin. That’s 4 players in 2 years from other clubs so as a destination, I think we’re ok. If the ruck situation was clearly seen by Bevo as being fatal to our premiership chances the last 2-3 years, we would have bolstered the role.

Keath I'll give you, but the others are not out of line with the historical recruits we've managed to land.
I really would love to hear something from the club about its attempts to address our ruck need, but we're not going to get it.
But when I hear Bevo speak, when our ruck weakness is shown up, I don't get the impression he's consciously avoiding trying to address it. What i hear is someone who is frustrated at having to mitigate it week to week with funky tactics.

[jeemak]

It's a tough one because there'd be word out there that Bevo needs certain attributes to be shown by rucks if he's to play them and that makes it harder to attract them, while Bevo only wants rucks with certain attributes and that narrows the field.

Then you've got to get the commercials right, and it's easier said than done.

I can live with English losing the taps (the mids if concentrating can counter this and we outnumber at most contests anyway), what I can't live with is him being weak around the ground and not giving us something to kick to or helping in defencive transition by taking marks.

Anyway, what did I really learn:

1. This team can really stink it up much more than I thought it could this year. Today's loss was as uncaring a performance as I have seen

2. Our leaders still have a long way to go in turning the tide. Dunkley to his credit met a really hard ball where he was vulnerable in a day where he seemed to be running around half interested, but Bont, Hunter, Jacko, Wood and Libba need to show more defencive attributes, physicality and set the tone

3. You really appreciate the work rate of a player like Bruce and the impact he can have in creating a contest and making it easier to move the ball and not let it fling out once he's gone. Even though only the goals he kicks in the first quarter of games count, he does a lot of good for our side due to his undoubted effort and we missed him today

[ratsmac]

1. I was certain that this group was different to the others before them that would falter at vital stages in seasons. Now I'm not so sure.

2. Our biggest strength has become our biggest weakness. I thought our mids could carry us through when we have weaknesses down back and up forward. The last 2 weeks they have been our biggest weakness.

3. We have no mongrel. We have had some at times this year but it's evaporated. Someone needs to start a fight or something when we have no fire. Something, anything!!

[The bulldog tragician]

1. It’s not just that we’ve had so many injuries that has hurt us - coming back from injuries in a time of lockdown is leading to players struggling (quite badly) on their return. We’ve had to prioritise getting games into underdone players and ‘carrying’ them is costing us ( we have had little choice).

2. The unease we felt about odd selections was unfortunately justified.

3. Fans are resilient/delusional (take your pick). After moping in the wake of yesterday’s great frustration and disappointment, I suddenly thought this morning:

We can and will beat Port. Why not? We’ve beaten them before. We have everything on the line. We have pride, we have Bont, we have a team that has been deservedly top 2-3 all year, we have surely been awoken from that late season apathy where bodies are sore, and September seems a million miles away…

[macca]

It's a tough one because there'd be word out there that Bevo needs certain attributes to be shown by rucks if he's to play them and that makes it harder to attract them, while Bevo only wants rucks with certain attributes and that narrows the field.

Then you've got to get the commercials right, and it's easier said than done.

I can live with English losing the taps (the mids if concentrating can counter this and we outnumber at most contests anyway), what I can't live with is him being weak around the ground and not giving us something to kick to or helping in defencive transition by taking marks.

Anyway, what did I really learn:

1. This team can really stink it up much more than I thought it could this year. Today's loss was as uncaring a performance as I have seen

2. Our leaders still have a long way to go in turning the tide. Dunkley to his credit met a really hard ball where he was vulnerable in a day where he seemed to be running around half interested, but Bont, Hunter, Jacko, Wood and Libba need to show more defencive attributes, physicality and set the tone

3. You really appreciate the work rate of a player like Bruce and the impact he can have in creating a contest and making it easier to move the ball and not let it fling out once he's gone. Even though only the goals he kicks in the first quarter of games count, he does a lot of good for our side due to his undoubted effort and we missed him today

Great point JeeMak. These atheletic type Ruckman who can run all day, take a mark, kick a few goals, and get back in defense to plug the hole, honestly are the exception. To do this consistently week in and week out without breaking down. Grundy, Nic Natanui and Goldstein are exceptions than the norm, maybe not natanui, but their longevity in the game is extraordinary. We really needed to pickup Ryder a few years ago.


Ben hudson type is someone we should be looking for, the great man himself. Bring back the spirit of the great beard.

His stoppage work was outstanding. Often he was at bottom of backs trying to keep positions for us and he was fierce competitor in the ruck.

Interesting, Jarrod Witt comes to mind, but his now injured. The high injury rate to Ruckman is also a concern.

[Mantis]

1/ You can't hide underdone players in AFL footy... and when you have 4 in the one team you are pushing shit up hill.

2/ You can't win a game of footy without a forward-line.

3/ Given the basic premise of the game is to be able to kick the ball it's amazing how hard a task it is for highly trained professionals who do it every day.

[ratsmac]

1/ You can't hide underdone players in AFL footy... and when you have 4 in the one team you are pushing shit up hill.

2/ You can't win a game of footy without a forward-line.

3/ Given the basic premise of the game is to be able to kick the ball it's amazing how hard a task it is for highly trained professionals who do it every day.

We could've had Lockett, Dunstal, Franklin etc but if you can't get the ball them they can't kick goals.

You 100% right will kicking the ball. We were/are terrible

[Mantis]

We could've had Lockett, Dunstal, Franklin etc but if you can't get the ball them they can't kick goals.

You 100% right will kicking the ball. We were/are terrible

How many times did our players look up the ground and have no-one forward of the ball to kick the ball to? We had no structure, but that is what happens when you fill the team full of defenders and midfielders.